British Railway Operations

[John Bakeer]

I tried to answer the Q about support cars, but this blasted machine sneezed and deleted my post!!!  It's a matter of size. The UK is 850X140 miles, we have heavy machne facilities within easy reach, our largest steamers are no more than half a Challenger, the single coach behind our Loco's can accommodate the tools of a light running shed plus space for some staff.

Tornado lost 150 fire box stays due partly to freqent heating and cooling causing expansion problems coupled with welded costruction against the original boilers being rivetted which allowed more abuse.

I hope this helps? 

[samfp1943]

John Baker

I tried to answer the Q about support cars, but this blasted machine sneezed and deleted my post!!!  It's a matter of size. The UK is 850X140 miles, we have heavy machne facilities within easy reach, our largest steamers are no more than half a Challenger, the single coach behind our Loco's can accommodate the tools of a light running shed plus space for some staff.

Tornado lost 150 fire box stays due partly to freqent heating and cooling causing expansion problems coupled with welded construction against the original boilers being riveted which allowed more abuse.

I hope this helps? 

Thanks, John;

       Appreciate the response, and more than anything, I can appreciate the idiosyncrasies of computers, and how they can glytch at the most inoportune times.

  Never having been to the UK, it is difficult to grasp the scale of distances involved moving and traveling about the UK. My only fram of reference is experiences here.

  In 1992, the Union Pacific sent the Challenger 3985 to pull the Clinchfield Railroad's 25 Anniversary Santa Train in Southeastern Kentucky to the Bristol, Tennessee area. The UP's Steam Locomotives are domociled in Cheyenne,Wyoming and that one trip is probably, roughly 1,000 miles, which would roughly, equate to about 1610 km one way ( of course double for R/T). These are very rough figures due to the routes taken, which are different for each leg of the trip. 

The 844 was recently (2009) on a trip from Cheyenne  to South Texas which was probably something a little over 2000 miles (3200km.+,-) So they move the train with a car ( boxcar) of parts and a car equiped as a machine shop, a car with a steam generator to keep the boiler hot- or to ease the start up after a shut down)

LINKED HERE IS ARE VIDEOS  of  UP 844 on its' 'Valley Eagle' (tour in 2009 over some former Missouri Pacific territory):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdhZ1oWi5h0     

(and here as well)   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg2kanM2Kqk&feature=channel

Here is 844 with DDX40 6936 in tow running hard linked here:

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klVf2jmHxks&feature=channel

Here is a link to UP's Web site:   http://www.uprr.com/aboutup/excurs/index.shtml

This was the reason I, originally, was questioning about the support car.

And the the end of July; The Railfan Community received the news that the Norfolk Southern R R was going to reincarnate its Steam Program that had been thought gone. True the The N&W (J-class, a 4-8-4 Northern type, and the 1218 an articulated Y6b are still in Museum status) is going to partner with the Tennesse Valley Railroad Museum to bring back three former Southern Railway locomotives.  Linked here to the NS RR's website (media) :  

 http://www.nscorp.com/nscportal/nscorp/Media/News%20Releases/2010/steam-to-ride-the-NS-rails-again.html

  FTL;   "...June 30, 2010

"Plans call for steam to ride the Norfolk Southern rails again, through display and excursion program with TVRM"

"NORFOLK, VA., and CHATTANOOGA, TENN. – Norfolk Southern Corporation is in negotiations with the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum with regard to the operation of a limited schedule of steam locomotive event appearances and passenger excursions beginning later this year..."

[John Bakeer]

***!!!

 

It's deleted my post-----------------AGAIN!!!

[blue streak 1]

John sometimes it is better to write a post as a word document then paste the doc to your post. That way you have a copy if something does not go right.

[Deggesty]

blue streak 1

John sometimes it is better to write a post as a word document then paste the doc to your post. That way you have a copy if something does not go right.

I have at times done this--and then there was no trouble. Also, it is possible to copy what is written before it is posted, and if the system gremlin attacks you simply paste and try again.

[John Bakeer]

On my way home from the Grapes last night (about 2030) I heard a steamer heading north on the WCML through Stockport (light engine I think) sounded like a 2 cylinder machine. Going really well.

I'm not sure that I am up to this pasting lark. I can't even hang wall paper.

[samfp1943]

 

 

John Bakeer

On my way home from the Grapes last night (about 2030) I heard a steamer heading north on the WCML through Stockport (light engine I think) sounded like a 2 cylinder machine. Going really well.

I'm not sure that I am up to this pasting lark. I can't even hang wall paper.

By George!

 I believe He's got it!

John; If somebody says "hang wallpaper"   RUN!

[ It's not up on my list of things I ever like to get to do, either!]

John: I know how you English like a steam engine with a little color, so here's some of SP's 4449 running hard.       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2EWXLRlX0&feature=channel

Enjoy!

[Modelcar]

Just checked the first video.....What great sound on it......!

[John Bakeer]

Really liked #4449 videos, running like a Swiss watch, but what was that grey shed behind the last tender?

[samfp1943]

John; 

         Since the railroad that is allowing the 4449 to operate on it, they require assurance( usually an AMTRAK Genesis P-42)  that can recover the train, if it gets out on their line and something breaks, they can haul it someplace and fix it, without blocking theng up for a long time. [ The english equivalent would be the MG midget owner who keeps a wrecker drivers phone number handy so he is not delayed when the MG midget breaks down.]    Don't think that the 4449 has EVER gone down on the road. 

   On the other hand, 844 and 3985 are OWNED by UP Railroad and runs mainly on their tracks ( except in 1992 when they loaded the 3985 to CSX to power their Cloinchfield Santa Train) for a short time.  

   The UNION PACIFIC's Steam Crew never leaves home without preparation, and  the tools to make sure they can fix most any problem out on the road, that might cause an operational problem for the Railroad.         I think if they have a problem that can't be fixed on the road, I think Steve Lee just shoots the responsible partty.

  They also often run with an insurance policy (in the video that great hulking yellow beast, 6935, a DDX40, running behind the water tender(s) can get them out of trouble, they can control it from the Cab of the seamers with an auxiliary control stand IIRC. 

 

[John Bakeer]

Sam, I had my tongue firmly into my cheek when I mentioned the 'shed'. When BR was dieselising (and making a hash of it) we hard line steamers called the diesels 'sheds'. I am a keen fan of US railroading and I did recognise the P42. Sometimes our steamers are run in top and tail mode with a class 37 or larger to provide HEP for A/C and heating, plus back up or a driving position on lines lacking turn around facilities. All current TOC rolling stock is unequipped for steam heating. There are a number of (preserved) rakes of carraige stock that are allowed to run on the main line. As I understand there is no provision for controlling the diesel from the Locomotive footplate.

Although I can no longer have a model rail road, I still have a couple of loco's left over in N and HO, UP Big Boy X4005 and a lonely HO DD40AX.

[samfp1943]

John Bakeer

Sam, I had my tongue firmly into my cheek when I mentioned the 'shed'. When BR was dieselising (and making a hash of it) we hard line steamers called the diesels 'sheds'. I am a keen fan of US railroading and I did recognise the P42. Sometimes our steamers are run in top and tail mode with a class 37 or larger to provide HEP for A/C and heating, plus back up or a driving position on lines lacking turn around facilities. All current TOC rolling stock is unequipped for steam heating. There are a number of (preserved) rakes of carraige stock that are allowed to run on the main line. As I understand there is no provision for controlling the diesel from the Locomotive footplate.

Although I can no longer have a model rail road, I still have a couple of loco's left over in N and HO, UP Big Boy X4005 and a lonely HO DD40AX.

John:

Calling a GE 'Genesis' style diesel, a'SHED" is probably a much kinder name  (although, a very apt descriptor!) than they have been called since their inception here, by railfans, and crews, alike.

 The SP 4449 of Doyle Mc Cormack, and both the UP 844, and 3985 are  equiped with cab controls to operate an additional diesel locomotive in their train by the MU'ing of control cables, although, I believe that the trains being pulled are well within each locomotives capabilities, the diesels are added to insure power in the event of a steam engine failure en route.

This link to a forum on Railroad.net  that contains links, photographs, and conversations about the Multiple Unit capabilities and some photos of the auxiliary cables needed to accomplish the control of the diesels following the steam locomotives.    http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57510

[John Bakeer]

Is there anybody out there???

[daveklepper]

Sure, and enjoy your railfan heaven, you lucky Brits!

[samfp1943]

I've got my hand up!    Permission to ask a question?

Been looking at some videos on You Tube of the new Class 70 Freightliner beasties.     

  I noticed in several instances of freight trains that had Liquid Containers on flat cars, some with some TEU's on the same car, but not necessarily loaded to the front position.     The tanks were placed directly behind the locomotive in several instances.  I also noticed a similar practice on some Queensland Railways videos (tank cars behind the locomotives).

.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFqq-Z6iMxM&feature=related

In this country, as I understand it.  [We've had this discussion on other occasions, in other threads on this Forum.]   The general rule in this country is that there must be a 'buffer car ' placed between the car with hazardous product, and the train crew.    In the case of no buffer car, an unoccupied locomotive ( D.I.T./  Dead in Tow)  will suffice as well; as a 'buffer' car, for purposes of compliance with the Rule.

From observation, this does not seem to be the case under the Rules of Operation (?) in the UK .   Possibly, other European areas as well? 

EDiT;   To clarify: I realize that all tanks are not necessarily carrying Haz Mat, but how are hazardous materials place in the trains?   Are containerized tanks and tank cars required to be placed away from train crews? How are hazardous materials handled withing the consists of trains?

Thanks!

[BaltACD]

Not all tank cars carry HAZMAT in the US.  I have no idea if the tank pictured behind the Freightliner engine contains HAZMAT.

[John Bakeer]

I am no authority on the subject, but my understanding is- The use of buffer wagons between the locomotive and wagons carrying explosive/flammable/corrosive loads has been mandatery here in UK and across Europe for over 60 years. The container tank shown in the video is a non hazmat load, otherwise the above rules would apply. Special measures have to be taken with these containing hazardous loads wherever they are used.

In the days of loose coupled trains with gaurds vans, the same rules would apply, such vehicles would be fitted or continuously braked stock at head of the train.