British Railway Operations

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Tony,
Where did you live in my grudgingly adopted home city?

Either on campus (off Great Horton Road) or in a shared house about half a mile further up the same road - opposite the 'Italia' cafe (if it's still there). As I was doing a 'sandwich' degree course, I also spent about 15 months working in Manchester so I got very familar with the Calder Valley line (Halifax - Todmorden) - still one of my favourite routes. Had a ride along it recently as a side trip during a day trip to Leeds on the last day of (official) Eurostar operation on GNER.

It's interesting that we've both picked a run over the northern section of the WCML behind an AC electric as a memorable 'thrash'.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Bashers & Thrashers! I can't tell from the context, if that's good or bad?

If say, a sports team has been soundly beaten by another team sometimes people say the loosing team have been 'thrashed'. Generally, memorable train trips from a locomotive performance point of view involve a driver running a loco really hard - usually described as 'thrashing' it (Tulyar15's run behind 25 315 would probably come in this category [:)] ). So a good run behind a loco would be regarded as a good 'thrash'.

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

You guys are true railfans! I was picturing what was outside the coach that you were passing. Yet, you seem more interested in what is pulling the train-too funny. And I thought I had trouble understanding cogload sometimes. (Just kidding- it's all good) Thanks

[kevin1978]

Readers of country life magazine have voted Newcastle to Edinburgh as Britain’s most scenic railway (to GNER’s – the routes operator – delight). Its very nice in my opinion but outstanding compared to some other routes that have been mentioned on here. Maybe those magazine readers haven’t travelled too much!

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevin1978

Readers of country life magazine have voted Newcastle to Edinburgh as Britain’s most scenic railway (to GNER’s – the routes operator – delight). Its very nice in my opinion but outstanding compared to some other routes that have been mentioned on here. Maybe those magazine readers haven’t travelled too much!

Country Life,, the magazine for the wannabe Gentry. The people who read this aren't likely to climb aboard a Class 144 DMU in Sheffield for a trip across the Peninnes. They're going to be in 1st class on a Regional Eurostar, so their experience is limited, and thus invalid.


Class 144 "Nodding Donkey"


Regional Eurostar (before the paint job)

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: You guys are true railfans! I was picturing what was outside the coach that you were passing. Yet, you seem more interested in what is pulling the train-too funny.

I think we enjoy both (I certainly do), but if you've been interested in trains in the UK for a long time (30+ years in my case), you've probably travelled the main lines of the system many times over so the scenery gets familiar. Also a lot of UK railfans started out by collecting loco numbers - 'trainspotting' - and one of the natural progressions from this is trying to travel behind as many different locos as possible - 'bashing' - hence the interest in what's on the front...

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost

QUOTE: You guys are true railfans! I was picturing what was outside the coach that you were passing. Yet, you seem more interested in what is pulling the train-too funny.

I think we enjoy both (I certainly do), but if you've been interested in trains in the UK for a long time (30+ years in my case), you've probably travelled the main lines of the system many times over so the scenery gets familiar. Also a lot of UK railfans started out by collecting loco numbers - 'trainspotting' - and one of the natural progressions from this is trying to travel behind as many different locos as possible - 'bashing' - hence the interest in what's on the front...

Tony

Can you tell what's up front by the way the train handles?[:)]

[Tulyar15]

Sometimes! If there's clouds of blue smoke it's either a Deltic or else got one hell of an oil leak!

Seriously though, a lot of the different classes of diesel loco can be recognised by their sounds. Sulzer engined locos tend to make a cough-cough sound whilst with English Electric locos its more a dub-dub-dub-dub sound

[Anonymous]

Off Topic: I have finally joined the broadband revolution. Faster than a pint of lager on a hot day.

On Topic: There were several "bashers" lurking at my local station last night as a big silver engine with Cotswold Rail was pulling 1A40....(I will let you guess what that headcode stands for)

Off Topic: Music of the Day - Ash. 1977.

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cogload



On Topic: There were several "bashers" lurking at my local station last night as a big silver engine with Cotswold Rail was pulling 1A40....(I will let you guess what that headcode stands for)

A Whistler perhaps?

[Tulyar15]

No, Cotswold Rail havent got any Whistlers. I'm guessing that 1A40 is the "Night Riviera" sleeping car train from Penzance to Paddington

(For those not in the know, in the 1960's British Rail came up a series of 4 character codes for identify train workings. Many diesel and electric locos at that time were fitted with indicators so that they could display these codes. These indicators were no longer used after 1976 but the codes are still used on signalling panels. Basically the first digit indicated the type of train thus:-

1 - Express passenger, breakdown crane or snow plough going to clear the line
2 - local passenger
3 - ?
4- Freight train authorised to run at 75mph( I think some of these now run at 90mph)
5 - empty passenger train, breakdown crane or snow plough NOTgoing to clear the line
6- Freight train authorised to run at 60mph
7- Freight train with max speed of 45mph
8 - Freight train only partially fiited - max speed 45mph
9 - Freight train with no continous brakes max speed 30 mph (very rare these days
0 - light engine(s)

In BR days the above number sequence determined the priority - class 1 being top priority.

The letter would signify the destination. In general all trains going to London, regardless of what region they were on would have an 'A' here. In the case of trains where their destination was on a different region the letter would indicate the destination region thus:-

E - Eastern
M - London Midland
O - Southern
S - Scottish
V - Western

Certain letters had special meaning. Z signifies special trains while X is used for VIP specials. I believe the Royal Train has the headcode 1X00

I'm not sure what the significance of the remaining two digits were)

[owlsroost]

There is a bit more on UK train numbers here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Train_reporting_number

(Class 3 used to be parcel trains, now it's 'over 75mph' freight - which probably amounts to the same thing really e.g. the EWS Walsall - Scotland parcel trains. Class 9 is now used for Eurostar trains - unfitted freight trains are now extinct).

I'd put money on 1A40 being the Penzance - London sleeper train too.....so presumably the usual class 57 wasn't available ?

Tony

[daveklepper]

When were the latest sleeping cars constructed?

[Anonymous]

Aye twas the sleeper and to paraphrase Black Sabbath:

"Spotters gathered in thierrrrrrrrrrrrrrr massssssssssseeeeeeeeeesssssss (Give it some welly Ozzy)
just like witchesssssssss at black masssssssseeeessssssss"

Top n Tailed last night. However, enthusiasts there were none. There was some small discussion on headcodes a few pages back in the thread and Virgin have also run trains under the Class 9 as an experiment.

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: When were the latest sleeping cars constructed?

The current Mk3 cars were built 1982-1984 (and given the periodic attempts to get rid of sleeper trains altogether, they're almost certainly the last of their breed in the UK).

Tony

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

When were the latest sleeping cars constructed?

The last British Sleeper Stock were the cars labeled "Nightstar" and were constructed for a failed overnight companion to the Eurostars. None ever operated in the designed service and were eventually sold to Via in Canada where they now equip some eastern trains.

[owlsroost]

I wasn't counting the Nightstar cars because they never ran in UK service (there was some test running). The order was cancelled while they were being built by Alstom in Birmingham - so yes they are the latest (and probably the last ! ) constructed in the UK but not the latest to actually run in service here.

Tony

[Tulyar15]

As it is, half the MK 3 sleepers have already been sold off to preserved railways who use them as volunteer accomodation! Seems a bit of a waste - you'd have thought they could have converted them to day coaches. Some were also sold to the Danish Railways but I gather those cars have also returned to the UK.

I seem to recall that when the Mk3 sleepers were built they could not justify building enough of them to cover all the routes on which sleepers ran, so they axed some routes. But since many of the Mk3 sleepers have become surplues you'd have thought they could have at least tried reviving some of the axed routes rather than just let the cars site idle.If I remember rightly the Bristol - Edinburgh sleeper servcie went over to Mk3 but was later axed.

[owlsroost]

I think a few operators have looked at converting sleepers to day coaches, but the costs were too high - and there's all the ex-VWC Mk3s around now.

It mainly seems to be politics that's keeping the Scottish and Cornish sleepers alive these days - faster daytime trains and low-cost airlines have eaten away the market for the other routes. The poor rolling stock utilisation and high servicing costs don't help either.

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost

It mainly seems to be politics that's keeping the Scottish and Cornish sleepers alive these days - faster daytime trains and low-cost airlines have eaten away the market for the other routes.

Tony

Do the Scottish and Cornish sleepers compete better with fast daytime trains and low-cost airlines, or are these operations heavily subsidized?
Thanks

[germanium]

There was recently an attempt to dispense with the Cornish sleepers (distance only around 200-250 miles), but was dropped after political pressure and adverse publicity.
The distance is hardly economic for a sleeper service, so one wonders about its long-term future (if any). The Scottish sleeper service is double the distance, but again the costs vs revenue disparity may well determine its future.

[Anonymous]

The Scottish Sleeper is funded by the Scots Parliament. They will determine its future.

n.b and the distance from Padd to my part of Cornwall is 300 miles.

[germanium]

Cogload's distance correction is accepted with good grace.

[Anonymous]

germanium's comment is accepted with equally good grace. Mind you the county is arther longnthin, so 250 aint that far away.

Question is - will we have a railway in 5 years? Probabley not.

[Simon Reed]

Being a little alarmist are'nt we Mr. C.?

Every so often this story rolls around - it did so before privatisation and will continue to do so. There are elements within the upper echelons of the civil service who suggest that the treasury might be better off if the rail network was pruned, and this rumbles on for a bit in the national press until it's dropped in favour of lost whales or similar.

The closest we've ever come was the Serpell Report and that fell flat, partially due to the very pro-road Thatcher government realised that the electorate would'nt swallow such a scything blow to the network.

Mind you, Tory B Liar does whatever George tells him to, and we know that George does'nt like passenger trains...

[daveklepper]

Do the remaining sleeper routes still have clubcars? What about breakfast? When I rode the London-Glascow sleeper in 1962, I remember getting a drink the bar car before retiring and was served "tea and biscuts" before arriving, I think at the compartment. Enjoyed the overnight ride thoroughly, quite comparable to the best in the USA, including the Super Chief and the Broadway.

[Murphy Siding]

In a magazine that Simon Reed sent me (thanks a million Simon), there is a little blurb about Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Now there, is an interesting man! The magazine article mentions his name with that of Churchill, as far as influential people in Britain is concerned. Has anybody read a good biography of the man?
Thanks

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Being a little alarmist are'nt we Mr. C.?

Every so often this story rolls around - it did so before privatisation and will continue to do so. There are elements within the upper echelons of the civil service who suggest that the treasury might be better off if the rail network was pruned, and this rumbles on for a bit in the national press until it's dropped in favour of lost whales or similar.

The closest we've ever come was the Serpell Report and that fell flat, partially due to the very pro-road Thatcher government realised that the electorate would'nt swallow such a scything blow to the network.

Mind you, Tory B Liar does whatever George tells him to, and we know that George does'nt like passenger trains...

I agree with Simon on this one - the political fallout from pruning anything in Cornwall would be much too high (it was only a half-hearted attempt to kill the sleeper - closing lines is waaaay higher up the political pain scale....)

Reaching back into the memory, I can't remember any significant line closures since the ones in the 1970's (e.g. Bridport - Maiden Newton and Haltwhistle - Alston) other than the light rail conversions in Tyneside, Manchester, Croydon etc.

Inverness - Kyle of Localsh was proposed for closure back then (but was refused), and of course the Settle & Carlisle has escaped the axe more recently - we've had a good few line re-openings since then too.

If the politicians haven't got the stomach to put the Stockport - Stalybridge passenger 'service' (one train a week in one direction only!) out of it's misery, I think it's very unlikely anything more ambitious would get through the closure process.

Tony

(and don't you think 'Haltwhistle' is a great name for a railway station [:)] )

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

In a magazine that Simon Reed sent me (thanks a million Simon), there is a little blurb about Isambard Kingdom Brunel. Now there, is an interesting man! The magazine article mentions his name with that of Churchill, as far as influential people in Britain is concerned. Has anybody read a good biography of the man?
Thanks

If you type 'Isambard Kingdom Brunel biography' into Google lots of stuff should come up, there's a bit here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/brunel_kingdom_isambard.shtml and http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/society_culture/industrialisation/brunel_isambard_01.shtml

He came second to Churchill in a poll the BBC conducted a while ago where over a million people voted for their 'Greatest Briton' from shortlist of ten - the results are here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/programmes/greatbritons.shtml (and I'll probably never understand how 'Diana, Princess of Wales' got on the shortlist, let alone to third place.....)

In civil engineering, railways and ship design he was pioneering engineer. He understood from the start the potential of high speed train travel, which is why he opted for 7 foot gauge on the GWR because he felt that the greater stability it afforded would be essential for the sort of speeds he envisaged. For years the GWR in broad-gauge days ran the fastest trains in the world - and of course the same route hosted the UK's first 125mph train services in the 1970's (still running over the famous flat-arch brick bridge at Maidenhead, which some people predicted would collapse under the - very light - weight of the locomotives around at the time it was built in the 1830's !)

Tony

(I'll leave it to Cogload to eulogise about the Royal Albert Bridge [:)]) )

[mhurley87f]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

Pwllheli (pronounced "Poo-fell-ee" for the benefit of those not familiar with the rules of Welsh pronounciation - in Welsh a "w" is pronounced like "oo" in English)

And you're familiar with Welsh pronunciation?? 10 out of 10 for "W" but 0 out of 10 for "LL" - try putting the tip of your toungue on your top gum immediately behind your front teeth, and exhale around it.

Try it, Sally traffic does Llanelli and Llangollen very, very, well.

M

[germanium]

Owlsroost - don't you mean "7 feet" for the gauge ??