British Railway Operations

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Oubliette - I assume that you're the same person that has expressed an interest in the Alco S1 at Peterborough on the UK Alco group site.

If so - keep an eye on the site. The group committee are meeting in York on Saturday and hope to be able to announce a meeting for all interested parties shortly afterwards.

There may be a couple of "heritage railways" - a term I dislike immensely - you'll want to get involved with shortly!

What is a more appropriate name for that type of railway in Britain? We Americans typically refer to ours as *tourist railroads*, of which we do not have nearly enough,considering what a big part railroads have played in our history.

[Tulyar15]

In Britain, the term "heritage railway" can cover a wide diversities, from museum lines which dont really go anywhere but whose main purpose is to demonstrate how steam trains and their associated infrastructure worked, to lines in scenic areas of the British Isles who often go from A to B where both A and B are places of general interest to tourists.

Examples of the former might include the Midland Railway Centre, Didcot Railway Centre whilst the latter the North Yorks. Moors and the Ffestinog. Some of the latter are commercial undertakings with paid staff but even so there's usually some input by unpaid volunteers.

From a railfan's point of view the premier league of heritage lines would include the Severn Valley, Mid-Hants, Bluebell, Keighley & Worth Valley, Great Central and the East Lancs.

[daveklepper]

The Welsh narrow gauge lines are also Vintage Railways and well worth visiting and riding. I rode the Festiniog, Vale of Rydole (then still run by B. R.) and Tallilyn. I assume they are all still running.

Then there are the mineature steam railways that are passenger carrying model railroads: Romy Hyth and Dimchurch, Ravenwood?? and Ecksdale (very scenic). The latter connects or did connect with a passenger carrying scale model of an ocean liner used as a lake steamer. There are others. Like USA "Garden Railways" except they go some place and are actually used by some people for commuting!

Then the trolley museums.

[owlsroost]

A few websites for the above:

The Great Little Trains of Wales - http://www.greatlittletrainsofwales.co.uk/timetable.htm

Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch Railway - http://www.rhdr.org.uk/rhdr/rhdr.html

Ravenglass and Eskdale Railway - http://www.ravenglass-railway.co.uk/

The National Tramway Museum - http://www.tramway.co.uk/

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

In the editor's lead-in page of The Railway Magazine that Simon sent me ([:D]), was the following: "The average British railfan tends to fall into one of five main camps-GW, LNE, LMS,SR and MT(modern traction)". Is that true? And, if it is,where do your main interests lie? It would appear, to me, at least, that several of you Brits might fall into the GW and/or MT groups? American railfans, on the other hand,are not easy to classify-we're all over the place.
Thanks

[oubliette]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

In the editor's lead-in page of The Railway Magazine that Simon sent me ([:D]), was the following: "The average British railfan tends to fall into one of five main camps-GW, LNE, LMS,SR and MT(modern traction)".

I think more so in the steam days people had more of dedication and interest to their own region because many of the regions had loco's unique to them. Whilst people still have their preferences today of modern traction I think the interest is more general as a whole. You still get people who prefer regions/loco's of a certain type or maybe DMU's or EMU's. My interest is general and of course it goes without saying a big interest to me is the North American scene. I have made a few trips recently and intend to make more to the US/Canada.

Of course there are extremes of railfanning in the UK. There are people who may only like loco's with Sulzer engines or English Electric engines. Whilst I have preferences to certain types I find it odd that people will get off a train because the loco they wanted at the front of the train was the wrong type. This happens quite frequently at preserved railways, people may turn up for (say for an example) a class 47 and if a class 37 rolls in they won't get on it. I remember once when a Sulzer loco was rostered on the train and its electric train supply wasn't working for the heating, an English Electric loco was put on the opposite end to provide heat.

To save time instead of running the Sulzer onto the other end of the train when it reached its destination they just used the English Electric loco to pull it back to the original starting point. The Sulzer fans all got off and caught the bus back because they would not ride behind an English Electric loco. They did this all day, riding one way behind the Sulzer and catching bus back. This shows how extreme it can get. Most of this rivalry is only light hearted but I find it so funny to watch.

[oubliette]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Oubliette - I assume that you're the same person that has expressed an interest in the Alco S1 at Peterborough on the UK Alco group site.

This correct.

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

In the editor's lead-in page of The Railway Magazine that Simon sent me ([:D]), was the following: "The average British railfan tends to fall into one of five main camps-GW, LNE, LMS,SR and MT(modern traction)". Is that true? And, if it is,where do your main interests lie? It would appear, to me, at least, that several of you Brits might fall into the GW and/or MT groups? American railfans, on the other hand,are not easy to classify-we're all over the place.
Thanks

I'm basically a MT person, but with GW leanings in a historical sense - probably because the nearest railway line to the family home in my teenage years was an ex-GW one (Stourbridge-Birmingham, complete with lower-quadrant semaphore signals and the occasional 'Western' hauling vacuum-braked china clay wagons back then).

Tony

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Tony - it's myself (manager for a home shopping company), Gordon Atkinson (manager for a company that makes Sonar equipment) and Tim (DRS driver) so far. Interested? Send a message off-group if so.

Message sent.

Tony

[daveklepper]

But don't most British fans like the Deltics no matter what brand of diesel is their main addiction? That was my impression, that the Deltics were the one type with universal appeal.

[Anonymous]

Deltics do have a big following, but they were retired over 20 years ago now - younger enthusiasts won't have seen them on the main line on regular trains (though they may have managed to get tickets for one of the railtours of recent years). Personally I like them, but I'm guessing there must be people who've never been near one and don't see the appeal. I grew up watching 1st generation DMUs on the Heart of Wales line so I'll always have a soft spot for them, though pretty much any older diesels and electrics are a good sight, the new stuff seems to have a lot less character (would rather have a Class 101 than a new 2nd generation unit any day!).

[Murphy Siding]

I finally got a little downtime to check out the OPC Rail Atlas that Simon Reed sent me.[:)]. I was just about on the floor with laughter hen I realized that the Royal Albert Bridge connects Devon with Cornwall![:O] When I looked at where I *thought* it should be, the map took me to somewhere around Edinburgh. I'm just shaking my head. I had it in my head that this bridge somewhat connected England to Scotland.[:I]




~

[Tulyar15]

The other thing about the Deltics is there were only 22 of them (plus the prototype which became a museum piece once the production Deltics were up and running) and their sphere of operation was largely confined to the East Coast Main Line between London - King's Cross and Leeds/Edinburgh. Those they were highly sought after by railfans from the rest of the country, like myself.

When I first became interest in trains, steam had gone and "Hymek" and "Warship" diesel hydraulic locos worked the few inter city trains on my local line at Malvern, Worcestershire. Most passenger trains were DMU's while freight trains were few and far between. In due course the diesel hydraulic locos gave way to classes 31, 47 and 50 whilst 25's and 37's were common at Worcester and Hereford as were classes 45 and 46 "Peaks".

In their last years the Deltics were sometimes used on Trans Pennine expresses from Newcastle-upon-Tyne to Liverpool. I hoped they'd show up at Birmingham on Newcastle - Bristol/Cardiff trains but this never happened. Indeed the only time I had a Deltic for haulage on a regular, scheduled train was an Edinburgh - Plymouth train I caught after an (unsuccessful) interview at Durham. But my hopes of having Deltic haulage all the way to Birningham were dashed when it was removed at York and replaced by 47. At that time I was very disappointed as the 500 strong class 47s were everywhere but now I'd be qiute happy with 47 haulage!

[Simon Reed]

I only ever had one mainline Deltic - 19 - and embarrasingly I had it Waverley - Haymarket!

Murphy - keep that book open at the Edinburgh page to see why I'm embarrased.

[daveklepper]

I am happy to say that I had a Deltic cab ride at a steady 100mph London - Newcastle. I was thrilled by the experience. This was because I was a tour leader for an ERA visit, and British Rail had made most of our arrangements with our travel agency. Even though this was an electric railfan tour, it was arranged to accomodate general railway interest. Included was the Isle of Wight. In 1962 I had ridden all three steam operated lines there, then on this ERA trip rode the ex-underground equipment. In 1962 I had ridden all three steam Isle of Man lines, then the return had just one running.

[owlsroost]

Dave - I'm extremely jealous....[:)]

One good reason for liking the Deltics was the noise they made - there's a sample of it here - http://www.delticsounds.com/audio_files/nrm4.wav

The deep, pulsating humming noise at idle changes to a loud drone as the engines speed up - very distinctive (and commonly accompanied by lots of white smoke as the accumulated oil in the exhaust system gets burnt off after a station stop [:)])

Tony

[Simon Reed]

Irish Rail's GM 071 class could do passable Deltic impressions, though.

Immediately outside Cork Station is a long tunnel with a fairly steep climb and 071's sounded incredible through that.

Incidentally - for those who got involved in the "how good are GM's really?" debate on here a little while ago there's an interesting article on 57's in this months Railway Magazine.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

I only ever had one mainline Deltic - 19 - and embarrasingly I had it Waverley - Haymarket!

Murphy - keep that book open at the Edinburgh page to see why I'm embarrased.

Simon: I'm looking for clues, but I'm not seeing it?

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

I only ever had one mainline Deltic - 19 - and embarrasingly I had it Waverley - Haymarket!

Murphy - keep that book open at the Edinburgh page to see why I'm embarrased.

Simon: I'm looking for clues, but I'm not seeing it?

OK Murphy, I'll help you out. First of all, find Edinburgh Waverley station on the Edinburgh page. Then look a little to the left.....

[Hugh Jampton]

There are 4 more actal posts on this thread than what it says on the index page.. Should we alert Mystery Inc. or get Detective C.D. on the case..

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

There are 4 more actal posts on this thread than what it says on the index page.. Should we alert Mystery Inc. or get Detective C.D. on the case..

((((( Don't tell futuremodal, Dave would be sure to blame the BNSF for the oversight )))).[:)]

.

[Simon Reed]

Edinburgh Waverley to Haymarket = 1 mile and a bit.

The real Deltic men were doing 10,000+ per loco. 1000 is considered respectable.

I never considered myself a Deltic man - too young, and brought up in the wrong place.

Maybe those 4 missing posts are in Haymarket Tunnel....

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Irish Rail's GM 071 class could do passable Deltic impressions, though.

Immediately outside Cork Station is a long tunnel with a fairly steep climb and 071's sounded incredible through that.

Incidentally - for those who got involved in the "how good are GM's really?" debate on here a little while ago there's an interesting article on 57's in this months Railway Magazine.

Not had the pleasure of 071's climbing out of Cork, but the pair of Irish GM 141's I travelled behind recently from Athlone to Ballina brought back memories of double-headed 25's quite well....[:)]

I was also enjoying this - http://www.railmedia.de/rm_cd2e.htm - the other night, wonderful Alco music in echoey stations......just make you've got the house to yourself and turn it up LOUD.

Tony

(for Murphy Siding's benefit - the 141's are basically EMD switchers mechanically but with European-style double cabs - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_141_Class - so we're talking EMD 8-567 noise x 2 !)

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Edinburgh Waverley to Haymarket = 1 mile and a bit.

The real Deltic men were doing 10,000+ per loco. 1000 is considered respectable.

I never considered myself a Deltic man - too young, and brought up in the wrong place.

Maybe those 4 missing posts are in Haymarket Tunnel....

OK, now I get it. Waverlley doesn't seem to be marked on the map. Now, I really like studying maps, but I'm more used to looking at maps with elevation contours. According to this book,Great Britain appears to be as flat as a [;)]pancake.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

Irish Rail's GM 071 class could do passable Deltic impressions, though.

Immediately outside Cork Station is a long tunnel with a fairly steep climb and 071's sounded incredible through that.

Incidentally - for those who got involved in the "how good are GM's really?" debate on here a little while ago there's an interesting article on 57's in this months Railway Magazine.

Not had the pleasure of 071's climbing out of Cork, but the pair of Irish GM 141's I travelled behind recently from Athlone to Ballina brought back memories of double-headed 25's quite well....[:)]

I was also enjoying this - http://www.railmedia.de/rm_cd2e.htm - the other night, wonderful Alco music in echoey stations......just make you've got the house to yourself and turn it up LOUD.

Tony

(for Murphy Siding's benefit - the 141's are basically EMD switchers mechanically but with European-style double cabs - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIE_141_Class - so we're talking EMD 8-567 noise x 2 !)

There is a regional railroad, Dakota & Iowa, that runs a rock train through my town every day. In the afternoon, the mile-long train of empty gondolas climbs a big hill 1/2 mile from my office. The train is pulled by 6 or 7 old, recycled Geeps. I can hear the steady rumble of the engines. I'm sure this gives a similar sound.[:)]

[owlsroost]

QUOTE: Waverley doesn't seem to be marked on the map

Ah, It's just called 'Edinburgh' on the OPC Rail Atlas. Originally there were two main stations in Edinburgh - Waverley and Princes Street - but the latter closed years ago and all trains now use Waverley.

Tony

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Simon Reed

I only ever had one mainline Deltic - 19 - and embarrasingly I had it Waverley - Haymarket!

Murphy - keep that book open at the Edinburgh page to see why I'm embarrased.

Why only the mile-or-so trip? Did you change trains at both ends?

[Simon Reed]

Because I was at Waverley and saw a chance to get a Deltic in, but did'nt have much time before I needed to head South.

I had 47404 back to Waverley according to my very elderly notes.

For UK viewers - we'll be doing some work on the ALCo S1 at Peterborough on Feb 25th, Mar 11th and Apr 1st. We're also making these days a "meet the loco" event so you can have a look at what we have to do, talk to us about what we're going to do and ideally join the UK ALCo Group.

Fun begins at 12.00 on Feb 25th, and 10.00 on the other two days. Bring your own tools!

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost
[
Not had the pleasure of 071's climbing out of Cork, but the pair of Irish GM 141's I travelled behind recently from Athlone to Ballina brought back memories of double-headed 25's quite well....[:)]

Ah now - double headed 25's - what memories!

I'm going across the water to Ireland in April for an Iri***raction Group railtour. The ITG have preserved examples of most early Irish diesel locos and organise two trips a year. The ITG trips usually start from Dublin with a pick up at Dun Laoghaire as a lot of Brit railfans come across on the ferry to participate. This tour is going into N. Ireland and will be formed of two of the soon to be withdrawn NIR Diesel Electric MU's. These units, built by British Rail at Derby in 1977 are a diesel electric version of the BR cl 310 EMUs and are powered by the same type of engine as the BR Southern Region DEMUs ("Thumpers").

On the way back from Holyhead I shall also do the Llangollen Railway's steam gala weekend.

[Murphy Siding]

Simon: You missed your calling-you should have been some sort of railroad passenger route inspector. But then,you wouldn't have gotten to see as many different miles of track as you have as a railfan.[;)]

All: A question about the Tay Bridge. According to the Rail Atlas, the Tay bridge looks like it only cuts off about 20-30 miles of rail distance(Ladybank>Dundee verses Ladybank>Perth>Dundee). It would seem that building the bridge (twice) would only cut out less than an hour of running time on through trains. Am I seeing that correctly, was a great price paid to shave a little time out of a run?
Thanks