QUOTE: Originally posted by Townsend In Briti***rain planning some peoples view of goods trains range from bad tempered tolleration to outright loathing. Leith - Cockenzie trains are on the ECML for about 5 miles, that can be lived with, but when you are trying to path a coal train out of Hunterston going to Drax, through Paisley, across the West Coast Main Line at Polmadie, round the Edinburgh sub and down the East Coast Main Line to be handed over North Eastern zone at Berwick to be told it has been rejected because it clashes with a train near York, you start to think do we realy need this traffic and would it not be better to land it at Hull. After that rant the most productive frieght trains in terms of ease of planning and utilisation of resources tend to be MGR, Freightliners and nominated freights (like mgr but not just minerals). Anything else and you are getting back to the possition of Britain being the worlds biggest marshalling yard like it was in the 1950's.
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Originally posted by cogload Townsend you work for EWS then? No, Network Rail trai planning. BTW came across what is probably the slowest goods train in Britain. Wieghs in at 1700 ton and takes 38 minutes to climb Beatock, 10 miles of 1 in 75 is. In Briti***erms that is probably about as rough as it gets. It aint no Sherman Hill or Raton. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, January 19, 2006 5:08 PM And Falmouth in Cogload country is the 2nd deepest deep water Harbour in EUROPE! Towns - I work for the Evil Empire as well. Interesting gossip from the sticks - we are getting our loop at Penryn and a half hourly service down the Falmouth Branch as well. European Objective One funding apparently. However I am of an age to only believe these things when the shovels start a digging. Music subtext: Enigma Variations by Sir Edward Elgar. London Phil...not sure who is conducting. Will check. Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, January 19, 2006 10:17 PM Simon: I received your package today! Many thanks. 'Haven't had much time to dig in deep yet, but you pretty well covered my interests in railroads, history, and maps! I notice a lot of orange marking in the rail atlas. You seem to have tried to travel on every stretch of track in Great Britain? Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Tulyar15 Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Bath, England, UK 712 posts Posted by Tulyar15 on Friday, January 20, 2006 2:26 AM I seem to have lost my previous post, but musically I like classical, folk and rock. I found my CD of "Coronation Scot" last night. My other all time favourite train music tracks include the "Titfield Thunderbold Theme" and "Pacific 2-3-12 by Honegger, an early 20th century French composer. I agree with Simon Reed about the rail scene being bland in the UK to-day. The one thing that adds a bit of interest in seeing preserved diesel and steam locos on the main line. Incidentally a day rover ticket in the West Midlands (Birmingham, Coventry and Wolverhampton) costs £4.50. It covers all trains buses and trams. In S. Wales the Valley Day Rover has been extended to cover the newly re-opened Barry - Bridgend line and the Bridgend Maesteg line; also the main line between Cardiff and Maesteg. Reply Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Friday, January 20, 2006 3:19 AM Murphy - there's very little passenger track that I have'nt travelled in the UK - Ardrossan Harbour and Westbury Avoider are the only two bits of Network Rail in the edition of the atlas I've sent, although there's now the Larkhall branch near Motherwell, and DLR's airport extension. I've also travelled, as you'll note, on a good deal of freight only routes courtesy of railtours and diversions. I've "done" all of the passenger track in Ireland and Luxembourg, 90% of Portugal, Switzerland and Austria and by the end of March I'll have finished off Belgium and Holland. Yes, I'll own to being a bit obsessive but I have a well-paid job, 34 days paid leave a year and an understanding partner with her own time-consuming hobby (horses). Reply mhurley87f Member sinceOctober 2004 From: U K 146 posts Posted by mhurley87f on Friday, January 20, 2006 4:23 AM QUOTE: No, Network Rail trai planning. BTW came across what is probably the slowest goods train in Britain. Wieghs in at 1700 ton and takes 38 minutes to climb Beatock, 10 miles of 1 in 75 is. In Briti***erms that is probably about as rough as it gets. It aint no Sherman Hill or Raton. T Are Bankers still deployed in the UK (Lickey, Beattock)?? If so, do they stay there all week, or Monday to Friday, day, or is it only for the passage of the trains needing assistance? Martin Reply owlsroost Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Cambridge, UK 419 posts Posted by owlsroost on Friday, January 20, 2006 9:13 AM QUOTE: I've had a little ride out on the rails around West Yorkshire today and was reflecting on how bland the UK railway scene is even compared to 20 years ago, when I first came to University in the area. I think the same about modern music, compared to what I was dancing about to in the 80's Have to agree with you - I was a student at Bradford University from 1976-1980 (after experiencing my first ever loco failure on the way to the interview !). This was the punk-rock era, which certainly shook British music up - even if some of the bands around at the time were best listened to with earplugs in.... As for the trains, there were Deltics to King's Cross, 'power twin' DMUs on the Bradford Interchange - Leeds locals, 'Peaks' on the NE/SW trains (it wasn't called 'Intercity CrossCountry' then), 40's on Liverpool-Newcastle etc. If you were interested in stations and signalling, across the Pennines at Manchester Victoria there was a wonderous array of colour lights and power-operated semaphores - all gone now but at least the huge tiled L&Y route map is still around. That said, although it's got less 'characterful' for the enthusaist, the passenger services in general have improved considerably on many routes - the core Leeds-Manchester 'Transpennine' service is a case in point - a 40 + Mk1's was never a competitive option versus the M62 motorway - OK, it's DMU's now but it's faster and more frequent. It's the same story in Cambridge - in the 25 years I've lived here, the off-peak service to London has gone from one diesel loco hauled through train per hour plus DMU shuttles to the ends of the electric services from London (Royston/Bishops Stortford), to six through electric trains per hour (2 to LS, 4 to KX) - a huge improvement for the average passenger. Tony Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Friday, January 20, 2006 1:07 PM I found a neat book,North American Railyards, written by a Brit,Michaael Rhodes. He notes that North America has more than 60 hump classification yards, noting that Britain closed the last of it's classification yards in the late 1980's. (The)"United Kingdom railroads moved to predominantly unit trains and intermodal services." Is that an accurate picture of the situation? That would mean that every train movement is from point a to point b,without yards full of train cars? Thanks Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply owlsroost Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Cambridge, UK 419 posts Posted by owlsroost on Friday, January 20, 2006 2:06 PM Pretty much - switching costs money, the distances are short and very few factories have spurs for freight cars these days, so there isn't much demand for 'manifest' freight trains in the UK. Tony (and freight cars sitting around in yards generally aren't earning money because they aren't moving - so why would you want to have intermediate switching anyway if you could possibly avoid it ?) Reply owlsroost Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Cambridge, UK 419 posts Posted by owlsroost on Friday, January 20, 2006 5:40 PM OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ? My nominations are :- 1. Glasgow - Mallaig, Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh and Exeter - Newton Abbott 2. Glasgow - Mallaig and Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh loco hauled behind a class 37, and very fast blast up the West Coast main line behind an 86 on a Birmingham - Edinburgh excursion once - it arrived 90 minutes early..... Tony Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 21, 2006 7:59 AM I'd have to put in a plug for the Heart of Wales line on the scenery front, too bad we get those ghastly 153s instead of the old 1st generation types - I only managed to ride the older DMUs on a couple of occasions. There was talk last year of the TOC buying a few 1st gen units but nothing came of it - I think the preservation groups who now own most of the survivors were put off by the fact that the TOC wanted to buy the units outright and alter the interiors. Reply Edit devils Member sinceJanuary 2005 From: Salisbury, England 420 posts Posted by devils on Saturday, January 21, 2006 12:23 PM in response to mhuley87 No real bankers left, we only do that for special reasons now. One of the steam special departures from Victoria (London) is sometimes booked to have a class 73 banking for a short distance but with strict instructions that if contact with the train is lost that it doesn't re-engage. Apart from that it would only be if a train failed and requested assistance from the rear. We prefer to put the assisting loco on the front, it's safer and we can run at linespeed. You may see trains top and tailed but only to avoid run rounds or to release an engine at the terminating point. HST doesn't count as it is a semi fixed set! Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Saturday, January 21, 2006 10:52 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ? My nominations are :- 1. Glasgow - Mallaig, Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh and Exeter - Newton Abbott 2. Glasgow - Mallaig and Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh loco hauled behind a class 37, and very fast blast up the West Coast main line behind an 86 on a Birmingham - Edinburgh excursion once - it arrived 90 minutes early..... Tony I'm all for hearing about your favorite scenery & journeys, but you'll have to provide a little more detail, if you could. IF there were passenger trains in my area, the view would be cornfields and cornfields. Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, January 22, 2006 4:49 AM But one thing that may add to the variety today as compared with yesterday is shared track and rights-of-way with "light rail?" Of course nothing like the old days before WWII with many tram networks and possibly a thousand different types of steam locomotives, and I do mean about 1000. Also the rail system pre-Beeching was far denser, and people went everywhere by rail that now normally has auto usage. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 22, 2006 7:16 AM Umm...Sea Wall Devon - Exminster - Teignmouth. Cracking. Reply Edit oubliette Member sinceMarch 2003 From: Lancashire - UK 74 posts Posted by oubliette on Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:13 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit I'd have to put in a plug for the Heart of Wales line on the scenery front, too bad we get those ghastly 153s instead of the old 1st generation types - I only managed to ride the older DMUs on a couple of occasions. There was talk last year of the TOC buying a few 1st gen units but nothing came of it - Watch this space as their is currently one in our workshop right now destined for the Heart of Wales. Can't say anymore than that right now. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 22, 2006 10:32 AM That's good to hear - a bit of variety would be a big improvement. Scenery here is mostly green, hilly, and with large numbers of sheep. http://www.railcar.co.uk/Gallery/Heart.htm is a photo gallery of the line in the days of 1st gen DMUs which may be of interest. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:29 PM One of my favorite routes is Newcastle to Edinburgh. Probably a bit underated as you have go through some dull ugly bits on the outskirts of Newcastle and Edinburgh, but from say Morpeth to Drem with the exeption of Dunbar, the scenery is as varied as you can get on a mainline in Britain. Hopefully i will tick of Edinburgh - Aberdeen soon,(preferably by HST rarther than 170) and the Highland main line is a given. Reply Edit Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, January 22, 2006 8:20 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit That's good to hear - a bit of variety would be a big improvement. Scenery here is mostly green, hilly, and with large numbers of sheep. http://www.railcar.co.uk/Gallery/Heart.htm is a photo gallery of the line in the days of 1st gen DMUs which may be of interest. One of the photos in your collection shows a passenger train that hit a farm tractor at "track speed". What is typical track speed on a line like that? Thanks Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply owlsroost Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Cambridge, UK 419 posts Posted by owlsroost on Monday, January 23, 2006 3:07 AM QUOTE: I'm all for hearing about your favorite scenery & journeys, but you'll have to provide a little more detail, if you could. IF there were passenger trains in my area, the view would be cornfields and cornfields. A general UK rail map is here - http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/system/galleries/download/print_maps/uk.pdf The Glasgow - Mallaig and Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh routes are both in the western Scottish Highlands (top left hand side of the map). The scenery is mostly hills, moorland and lochs (lakes) and looks stunning in good weather (Fort William - Mallaig is particularly good). The central section of Exeter - Newton Abbott (bottom left hand side of the map, between Dawlish Warren and Teignmouth) runs alongside the sea at the base of cliffs and through a few short tunnels - the station at Dawlish is right on the shoreline and regularly gets damaged by heavy waves if there are big storms. This is the same line that Cogload mentioned. The Central Wales/Heart of Wales line runs from Llanelli to Craven Arms via Llandrindod (lower middle left hand side of the map) - it's been years since I last travelled the line so someone else would be better to describe the scenery. Tony (and I know what you mean about the 'cornfields and cornfields' - I've travelled on the California Zephyr, Pioneer and SW Chief between Chicago and the West Coast, and driven around Illinois and Iowa farming country....) Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Monday, January 23, 2006 3:20 AM Line speed on the Heart of Wales is comparatively low - the lower end is maintained under a Light Railway Order. At a guess I'd say it was probably about 40-50mph at most. I'm not really sure how best to describe the scenery though - it's mostly green, lots of hills, single carriageway roads and the odd mid-sized town. There's one major piece of engineering on the northern end of the line in the form of the Knucklas Viaduct, which can be seen here www.heart-of-wales.co.uk/knucklas/viaduct.htm in fact that site has a lot of scenery photos which may be of interest - click on "HoWL" at the top to be taken to a map. Reply Edit Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Monday, January 23, 2006 3:05 PM Tony, Where did you live in my grudgingly adopted home city? I bemoaned the lack of variety today solely from an enthusiast's point of view. I fully agree that to the general public today's passenger services are as attractive as they've ever been. Regular readers of this column will know that I tend towards Socialism, but with a heavy heart I have to conceed that putting the railways into a profit ethos has revitalised them beyond all recognition. The much caricatured "jobsworth" railwayman has largely been replaced in customer facing roles by more people - oriented employees (except at Blackpool North, where they're still as nasty as ever), we have attractive and largely comfortable trains on our longer routes (yes, I'll conceed that there are exceptions), there's been a mighty investment in major and not-so-major stations and we have timetables (schedules) based on customer rather than operational requirements. I'll go away now and have a think about best routes/thrash. Reply Simon Reed Member sinceMarch 2005 From: Sulzerland, UK 337 posts Posted by Simon Reed on Monday, January 23, 2006 4:20 PM OK. I've fed myself and the cats and had a think. Routes:- 1 - Furness Line (Carnforth - Barrow) because I grew up with it. I know every curve and wrinkle and still love it. 2 - WCML Roade - Euston. You get to see pretty much everything British Railroading has to offer - this fits in with DaveKleppers' ideal. Dave - your knowledge is a bit dated. Come back over soon and I'm sure a few of us would be pleased to meet you. 3 - As previously voted - Central Wales line. Thrash (and this took a bit of doing):- 1 - 85006 on a Euston-Carlisle control relief in 1986. I was having a beer at Preston waiting for 81010 south when that rolled in, and as I needed 006 I changed my plans. Driver was a totally desperate Carlisle man who needed to get home quickly. 'Nuff said. Shap did'nt exist. I was deeply worried that we were going to fall over coming through Penrith. Amazing. 2 - 40121 09.15 Blackpool- Newcastle, August 5th 1982. 121 was "my" machine anyway. Driven by a well known 40 basher Blackpool - Leeds, then another Leeds - Newcastle. She was in very sweet condition at that stage (Healey Mills machine - say no more). Hard to recall - after all this time - without the hairs on the back of my neck ***ling. 3 - Barclay 0-4-0ST "22" at Bowes. We'd seen Stiff Little Fingers the previous night then been out in Newcastle so I was a bit hyper anyway but this was fantastic. When driver realised that his only passengers were bashers (other halves were in the Metro Centre) he gave it full thrash. You had to be there really. Oh, none of this makes sense to our American readers but I've enjoyed laying it down! Murphy - next topic please! Reply Murphy Siding Member sinceMay 2005 From: S.E. South Dakota 13,569 posts Posted by Murphy Siding on Monday, January 23, 2006 7:32 PM Bashers & Thrashers! I can't tell from the context, if that's good or bad?[:)] Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar. Reply Tulyar15 Member sinceJuly 2005 From: Bath, England, UK 712 posts Posted by Tulyar15 on Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:49 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ? My nominations:- 1) The Cambrian Lines in Wales - Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth and Pwllheli (pronounced "Poo-fell-ee" for the benefit of those not familiar with the rules of Welsh pronounciation - in Welsh a "w" is pronounced like "oo" in English) 2) a) Having Deltic No 2 "KOYLI" (King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry) on an Edinburgh - Plymouth train between Durham and York - the only time I ever had a Deltic for haulage on a scheduled train b) Going to Paignton on an excursion from Worcester Shrub Hill in 1981, Our 47 (101) failed at Cheltenham, we were dragged from there to Bristol by 25 315 which put up a respectable performance given its mere 1,200hp and the fact that it was dragging a dead 47 plus 12 BR Mk1 passenger cars. Then at Bristol it was replaced by 45 013 which put up a spirited run to Paignton, managing to make up some of the lost time c) Having 4-4-0 "City of Truro" for haulage in May 2004 between Bristol and Kingswear on the centenary (almost to the day!) of its record breaking run. d) having a run with Merchant Navy Pacific 35005 "Canadian Pacific" from Nuneaton to London Victoria via the Midland Main Line. Despite a half hour late start we were on time at Victoria. Murphy - "Bashers" are people who like to get hauled by certain types of loco. Not sure what "Thrashers" are though. Reply « First«22232425262728»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. 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QUOTE: No, Network Rail trai planning. BTW came across what is probably the slowest goods train in Britain. Wieghs in at 1700 ton and takes 38 minutes to climb Beatock, 10 miles of 1 in 75 is. In Briti***erms that is probably about as rough as it gets. It aint no Sherman Hill or Raton.
QUOTE: I've had a little ride out on the rails around West Yorkshire today and was reflecting on how bland the UK railway scene is even compared to 20 years ago, when I first came to University in the area. I think the same about modern music, compared to what I was dancing about to in the 80's
QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ? My nominations are :- 1. Glasgow - Mallaig, Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh and Exeter - Newton Abbott 2. Glasgow - Mallaig and Inverness - Kyle of Lochalsh loco hauled behind a class 37, and very fast blast up the West Coast main line behind an 86 on a Birmingham - Edinburgh excursion once - it arrived 90 minutes early..... Tony
QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit I'd have to put in a plug for the Heart of Wales line on the scenery front, too bad we get those ghastly 153s instead of the old 1st generation types - I only managed to ride the older DMUs on a couple of occasions. There was talk last year of the TOC buying a few 1st gen units but nothing came of it -
QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit That's good to hear - a bit of variety would be a big improvement. Scenery here is mostly green, hilly, and with large numbers of sheep. http://www.railcar.co.uk/Gallery/Heart.htm is a photo gallery of the line in the days of 1st gen DMUs which may be of interest.
QUOTE: I'm all for hearing about your favorite scenery & journeys, but you'll have to provide a little more detail, if you could. IF there were passenger trains in my area, the view would be cornfields and cornfields.
QUOTE: Originally posted by owlsroost OK everyone, as we've strayed into nostalgia a bit (and it might be of interest to vistors to the UK):- 1. What are your favourite stretches of track in Britain from a scenery point of view ? 2. What are (or have been) your favourite journeys in Britain from a railfan perspective (you're allowed to be nostalgic here) ?
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