Grossly Dishonoring the American Flag

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon



My speciality isn't CONstruction.................quite the opposite......

...it's poking, prodding and antagonizing.......it's a great proffession......

Great work when you can get it....[8]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

A good number of overseas countries base plants and other things in the US (look at the automobile industry). Don't forget we are also out sourced to.
James[C):-)]

Haaaa HAAAAA! HAAAA! HAAA!,,,yer pretty good man,..that was rich.

Can I suggest you look at the broader spectrum as to why so many jobs get outsourced these days?

Often in the foreign countries, they don't pay a living wage, living conditions = squalor, environmental regs are almost non existant, and the liberals have not messed up the foreign labor market by trying to implement social reform through quotas, just for starters.

Those jobs will never come back here without tariffs

We are getting off topic.
Are you saying that the government needs to regulate things? The reason the countries are so poor is because of the government. If the government would just let people do what they want it would be much better off. Look at the history of the pilgrims at James Town they were starving do to socialism, when given their own land and allowed to keep what they grew the stopped starving. Many of these countries are suffering because of high taxes and government regulations. If you think that the environment needs protected it really only need minimal protection. Look at the lumber industry if you cut down all the trees you can't earn any more money; they learned very quickly that protecting the forest secured jobs for them in later years. I agree with the founding fathers that government should keep its nose out of peoples lives. And a minimum wages just raises the price of everything the money just circulates faster.
What tariffs we are a nation of free trade, and if we are losing all these jobs why is unemployment so low (it is easier to find a person who believes we never put a man on the moon than someone who can't find work), meanwhile the countries we are outsourcing to have much higher unemployment.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oubliette

As someone from across the pond I had the privilege to travel across the US from coast to coast on the train and I must say I have never seen a country so proud of its flag. Many houses, businesses, shops have the flag flying and this was something that struck me whilst viewing from the train. Our flag is rarely displayed (except town halls, civic buildings etc).

Of course I had seen the flag on sides of locomotives in pictures before I got there. When I saw some of the loco's I thought how great they looked and that America is a proud country and this is truly a gesture from a rail road operator that is proud to fly the flag. I never once thought how dirty it looked on some loco's but it came across more of a symbol that a country has united behind and proud to do so, other countries including ours should take lessons in patriotism. I say well done.

http://rorylushman.fotopic.net/

Right on my point exactly!!![#ditto][#ditto][#ditto]

[coborn35]

Finally!!!
Someone got it!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

if we are losing all these jobs why is unemployment so low (it is easier to find a person who believes we never put a man on the moon than someone who can't find work),
James[C):-)]

James, If I may ask, how old are you?

[csxengineer98]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

A good number of overseas countries base plants and other things in the US (look at the automobile industry). Don't forget we are also out sourced to.
James[C):-)]

Haaaa HAAAAA! HAAAA! HAAA!,,,yer pretty good man,..that was rich.

Can I suggest you look at the broader spectrum as to why so many jobs get outsourced these days?

Often in the foreign countries, they don't pay a living wage, living conditions = squalor, environmental regs are almost non existant, and the liberals have not messed up the foreign labor market by trying to implement social reform through quotas, just for starters.

Those jobs will never come back here without tariffs

We are getting off topic.
Are you saying that the government needs to regulate things? The reason the countries are so poor is because of the government. If the government would just let people do what they want it would be much better off. Look at the history of the pilgrims at James Town they were starving do to socialism, when given their own land and allowed to keep what they grew the stopped starving. Many of these countries are suffering because of high taxes and government regulations. If you think that the environment needs protected it really only need minimal protection. Look at the lumber industry if you cut down all the trees you can't earn any more money; they learned very quickly that protecting the forest secured jobs for them in later years. I agree with the founding fathers that government should keep its nose out of peoples lives. And a minimum wages just raises the price of everything the money just circulates faster.
What tariffs we are a nation of free trade, and if we are losing all these jobs why is unemployment so low (it is easier to find a person who believes we never put a man on the moon than someone who can't find work), meanwhile the countries we are outsourcing to have much higher unemployment.
James[C):-)]

we are losing jobs...in the manufactoring sector becouse of out sorceing and customor service jobs for the same reason (look at all the tech suport jobs that have been sent over to india).... work is easy to find here...if you want to work for min wage... and have to carry 2 jobs just to make the same money that the people that lost thier jobs to out sorceing where making.... i agree that just raising the min wage donst solve anything..it just raises the cost of eveything across the board...and employeers will just lay off some people and double the work load on the ones that they keep... i hate to say it..but with the decline of the manufactoring sector and heavey industry in this country due to the "free trade" zones and tax benifits for out sorcesing... we have serously put our country at risk to the point that if we should ever have have to go to a world war (non nuke).. that we dont have the manufactoring capibilitys like we had in ww2..... just look at the steel industry... what we had in the 20s to the 50s....and look at it now... other countrys that have little to no enviromental restrictions and cheep labor have taken that market from us...
also... you have to keep in mind... the "green" movement in alot of industrail countries isnt so much for better enviromental conditions..as much as it is a "redistobution of world welth"... you look at the countrys where the green movement is the strongest...all industrilzed countries... but you dont see greenpeace or any other "green" movement boycotting power plants and steel mills in mexico or any other "3rd world" nation.... something to think about
csx engineer

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

My god; if I over analysed everything in life, my brain would have a crank-shaft explosion. Notice the word analysed has anal in it?

Well, that's cool Junctionfan...I just tend to have this macro obsession where while a fully loaded container train is fun to watch roll by,...I can't help thinking about the stuff inside, and the liklihood that the stuff was once made in america., by american wage earners

That's not as bad as say a smugged decal; at least being interested in what is inside the containers is a valid interest particularly for model railroading, a smugged decal is just proctologically obsessive.

[wctransfer]

Anywho, ill begin the long process of getting ON TOPIC. This was not a place to talk about AMERICAN JOBS! Start a different topic. My opinion is that UP should have a Small little flag under the cab, and actually put UNION PACIFIC on a locomotive.

Alec

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

if we are losing all these jobs why is unemployment so low (it is easier to find a person who believes we never put a man on the moon than someone who can't find work),
James[C):-)]

James, If I may ask, how old are you?

14, and yes this is true. I do know what I am talking about.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

[
,a smugged decal is just proctologically obsessive.

Heh,...OK, I wasn't aware that is what you were getting at....[;)]

I think what is really going on here is a spite by proxy against UP for it's royalty obsession with the modelers venting their anger against UP's questionable use of the "logo"

Hey, I'm not a modeler, so I don't have that axe to grind...and I have seen a few of the loco's with the flag, in actual service.

Just being completely honest, I thought they were cool... BUT a big part of that may have just been satisfaction due to finally having seen that which I had read about and consequently had been looking for.

Now that the initial novelty has worn off, and I've seen a few that must have been in heavy tunnel use somewhere, I'll just say that my opinion is that I think it was a bad decision to implemement this symbol of national pride in and environment of neglect.

it DOES seem disrespectful, even if it is unintentional.

Similar to if a neighbor had a big face likeness of you painted on his garage, then statrs throwing a greaseball at the image each day... After a while you get to thinking it would be better if your picture wasn't there at all.

Similar feelings sway my opinion on UP's neglected flag decals....

If some dumb kid painted a mural of the flag on a wall just so that he could soil the image everyday, and make a political statement, the patriots would be chomping at the bit... in outrage

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

A good number of overseas countries base plants and other things in the US (look at the automobile industry). Don't forget we are also out sourced to.
James[C):-)]

Haaaa HAAAAA! HAAAA! HAAA!,,,yer pretty good man,..that was rich.

Can I suggest you look at the broader spectrum as to why so many jobs get outsourced these days?

Often in the foreign countries, they don't pay a living wage, living conditions = squalor, environmental regs are almost non existant, and the liberals have not messed up the foreign labor market by trying to implement social reform through quotas, just for starters.

Those jobs will never come back here without tariffs

We are getting off topic.
Are you saying that the government needs to regulate things? The reason the countries are so poor is because of the government. If the government would just let people do what they want it would be much better off. Look at the history of the pilgrims at James Town they were starving do to socialism, when given their own land and allowed to keep what they grew the stopped starving. Many of these countries are suffering because of high taxes and government regulations. If you think that the environment needs protected it really only need minimal protection. Look at the lumber industry if you cut down all the trees you can't earn any more money; they learned very quickly that protecting the forest secured jobs for them in later years. I agree with the founding fathers that government should keep its nose out of peoples lives. And a minimum wages just raises the price of everything the money just circulates faster.
What tariffs we are a nation of free trade, and if we are losing all these jobs why is unemployment so low (it is easier to find a person who believes we never put a man on the moon than someone who can't find work), meanwhile the countries we are outsourcing to have much higher unemployment.
James[C):-)]

we are losing jobs...in the manufactoring sector becouse of out sorceing and customor service jobs for the same reason (look at all the tech suport jobs that have been sent over to india).... work is easy to find here...if you want to work for min wage... and have to carry 2 jobs just to make the same money that the people that lost thier jobs to out sorceing where making.... i agree that just raising the min wage donst solve anything..it just raises the cost of eveything across the board...and employeers will just lay off some people and double the work load on the ones that they keep... i hate to say it..but with the decline of the manufactoring sector and heavey industry in this country due to the "free trade" zones and tax benifits for out sorcesing... we have serously put our country at risk to the point that if we should ever have have to go to a world war (non nuke).. that we dont have the manufactoring capibilitys like we had in ww2..... just look at the steel industry... what we had in the 20s to the 50s....and look at it now... other countrys that have little to no enviromental restrictions and cheep labor have taken that market from us...
also... you have to keep in mind... the "green" movement in alot of industrail countries isnt so much for better enviromental conditions..as much as it is a "redistobution of world welth"... you look at the countrys where the green movement is the strongest...all industrilzed countries... but you dont see greenpeace or any other "green" movement boycotting power plants and steel mills in mexico or any other "3rd world" nation.... something to think about
csx engineer

Don't manufacturing jobs tend to pay less than other jobs, and the real reason people need 2 jobs is taxes. If you look at how much people earn 1 job pays just to the government.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

[
,a smugged decal is just proctologically obsessive.

Similar to if a neighbor had a big face likeness of you painted on his garage, then statrs throwing a greaseball at the image each day... After a while you get to thinking it would be better if your picture wasn't there at all.

Not a good analogy. UP is not deliberately letting the locomotives get dirty, the 2nd law of thermodynamics happens. I hear a lot of good patriotic engineers cleaning theirs and, I still agree it shows that we are a proud nation hard at work. You want a wash at the end of each long tunnel?
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wctransfer

Anywho, ill begin the long process of getting ON TOPIC. This was not a place to talk about AMERICAN JOBS!--<snip>-- Start a different topic. My opinion is that UP should have a Small little flag under the cab, and actually put UNION PACIFIC on a locomotive.

Alec

I really agree with the part of your post after the -<snip>-, but the first partI disagree with. Yes, technically we were "off topic" but I think that we we IN TOPIC in an abstract way....

UP is using those flags to enhance it's image, and image that may be tarnished for any number of reasons.

And, being a prime component in the mechanism enabling outsourcing to succeed COULD be one of those reasons.

going even further off topic but keeping it brief, when I see port authorities hard sell their public to be enthusiastic about tearing down a perfectly good bridge to replace it with one more accomodating of the modern Super container ships, under the auspices of "progress" I think the public would be well advised to think of the improvement in terms of how it serve 'outsourcing' of american jobs.

So, while in a strictly railroading context, while it might feel good to contemplate the tremendous growth in the intermodal sector, one would be fooli***o ignore the toll already taken on the american job scene. Each trainload of foreign sourced containers is like an epitaph to the American Industrial ethic....

And , a witting participant hiding behind the PR apronstrings of PATRIOTISM!! isn't entirely out of context, it's just a smoking gun of an abstract nature

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

. You want a wash at the end of each long tunnel?
James[C):-)]

since you are being of a mocking nature ...then YES I DO... or, alternately,.. for them to stop using the decals, which would be smarter

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098



Don't manufacturing jobs tend to pay less than other jobs, and the real reason people need 2 jobs is taxes. If you look at how much people earn 1 job pays just to the government.
James[C):-)]

WHAT?? You mean you don't know? I thought you were an expert on these matters. [}:)]

[Anonymous]

Thy shall have no other Gods before me..
The Flag is not worthy of worship!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098



Don't manufacturing jobs tend to pay less than other jobs, and the real reason people need 2 jobs is taxes. If you look at how much people earn 1 job pays just to the government.
James[C):-)]

WHAT?? You mean you don't know? I thought you were an expert on these matters. [}:)]

In the word of a very wise man "Don't you know a sarcasm when you hear it" I know they tend to pay less. It's a Charlie Brown quote if you didn't recognize it.
James[C):-)]

[morseman]

All VIA rail locomotives and psgr cars have Canadian flag decals
and the rolling stock is kept fairly clean. As a proud Canadian I
think it's great. and wish Canadian were more patriotic and
would proudly show off our flag to the rest of the world and we
could take an example from our neighbors.

Pn Canada Day, July 1st I woke up to find two Canadian flags
planted on my lawn. Thousands were planted all around
our small town by a local real estate company. However
very few people in town displayed their own flags.

Canada is a great country to live in, but let's be more patriotic

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

. You want a wash at the end of each long tunnel?
James[C):-)]

since you are being of a mocking nature ...then YES I DO... or, alternately,.. for them to stop using the decals, which would be smarter

[:D]If you are going to be that way about it I suggest since it is an American flag that the government pay for a loco washing at the end of every tunnel. Can’t be unfair either lets do it for every railroad BNSF could use it theirs get real dirty. We can start with your tax dollars.[^]

[csxengineer98]

Don't manufacturing jobs tend to pay less than other jobs, and the real reason people need 2 jobs is taxes. If you look at how much people earn 1 job pays just to the government.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

We feed the world, this is part of the trade that helps to equalize outsourcing; don't laugh a lot foreign of companies do locate plants and other things in the US. Also outsourcing is not as bad as you make it out to be. For some things it is not profitable to outsource, the company I work for had look into doing a large print run for a client and the price of companies that outsourced to China and India were both higher than the price of a print shop in Texas. Look at car companies (since you laugh I'll explain) they base plants in the Detroit area, employ Americans to build their cars, same company also has nation wide dealerships employing Americans to sell the cars, and railroad to haul cars nation wide. Look at history there was a time when it was feared that American goods were selling at a higher price than goods shipped in from England (outsourcing). People talked of all that would be sold were cheaper British products, similar to fears of Chinese products. This did not happen; you seem to be of the same mindset of these people. You can learn a lot from history. Supply and demand plays a big part as well Chinese goods are usually not as well made as goods made right here at home, the more companies outsource the more demand there is for good American products, these can now be sold at a higher price and some one will start building factories in the US for them.
James[C):-)]

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

Thy shall have no other Gods before me..
The Flag is not worthy of worship!

I see he now thinks he is God.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by Peterson6868

Thy shall have no other Gods before me..
The Flag is not worthy of worship!

I see he now thinks he is God.

If you read what he says about France he thinks a lot of weird things.

[Anonymous]

yea you guys are getting off topic [sigh]and yes i have a problom with the flag being not wash even if it is a decal[V] because it still stands for our country[swg][bow][:)] now if you dont think what im saying isnt right you can kiss my[censored][soapbox]

SORRY ABOUT THE CURSING BUT ITS MY BELIEF AND AGAIN SORRY ABOUT THE CURSING

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

We can start with your tax dollars.[^]

NO NO NO!! not *THAT* argh!! [xx(][8)][8)]

[Junctionfan]

You know, if we spent more time concentrating on fixing our countries and less time on a stupid decal, progression would be quicker. The best way for me to be a good Canadian is help my fellow citizens, I will be a customs officer and maybe later on in life a cop, I will pay my taxes even if I don't want to because it is for a good cause-to better serve my citizens who need it, I will answer the call if my country goes to war not because I want to but my fellow citizens need protection, I will obey all laws and by-law even if I don't want to or do it the right way and lobby for a change, I will treat my fellow citizens with human respect and dignity.

That is how I can be a good Canadian. Not go bonkers if CP has a dirty decal that just so happens to look like a piece of fabric. The flag is just a symbol representation of Canada; it isn't Canada. The flag like the U.S flag is just the final version of the symbol-(at one point we had a union jack in our, you had 13 stars).

[Anonymous]

wow! I guess those unsafe pharmaceuticals from up there really CAN affect ones thinking? (J/K)

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

wow! I guess those unsafe pharmaceuticals from up there really CAN affect ones thinking? (J/K)

At least he is thinking. I agree with him mostly.
James[C):-)]

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

wow! I guess those unsafe pharmaceuticals from up there really CAN affect ones thinking? (J/K)

What is your idea of being a good citizen? A horrible criminal in the U.S can worship the flag all he or she wants; doesn't make them a good American.....

People like Manson, Dalmer and the other evil scum grossly dishonor decent Americans; their patriotism is irrelavant.

In Canada, we have Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka who grossly dishonor decent Canadians.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

We can start with your tax dollars.[^]

NO NO NO!! not *THAT* argh!! [xx(][8)][8)]

I wish people would say that about welfare, social security, airline subsidies, and a lot of other government pork. The tunnel washer might be cheaper.
James[C):-)]