Grossly Dishonoring the American Flag

[Train Guy 3]

I've always felt that a locomotive having an American flag on the side of it is a symbol that nothing can stop it. I also see the point of not wanting the flag to be dirty. I myself try to my greatest abilty ensure that nothing disrespects the flag and even have a flag cemetery to bury worn out flags. And I feel that the flag side of a train locomotive is an honorable thing to have as the railraods have always been part of America's backbone. The railroad has always been a dirty business and the flag is there to stand for all eternity ,no matter waht the elements, for all of us pushing on into the future.

[Anonymous]

My sense is that Uncle Pete is trying to cop a buck's worth of glory for ten cents worth of stickum, and that reluctance shows up in some of the posts from people who are just as patriotic as anyone else but find the image a litle . . . offputting.

And after those things are removed, as they inevitably must be, what's going to become of the "picture on the wall" phenomenon when the UP yellow is a full shade brighter?

Begging the issue because they haven't exactly been in a ru***o convert all the old D&RGW or Espee locos, now have they?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Jump Jet Jr...


Oh, and if you are silly enough to have kept the wives from the first few centuries, and are also planning on having more in the next....man, I would hate to have to pay your child support!

Ed

No kidding...a smart fella would learned after the first one..................[xx(]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098


And why not, I buy from Athearn because it is printed on the box that the merchandise are made in the USA. Can I sue them, the boxes have a flag printed on them. Not to mention who sees the locos other than railroad fans and crews? The average guy stopped at a crossing does not, even if he likes the flag decal most likely won't be shipping through the railroad. Those that do ship will still base their decision on cost or avalibility not the fact some locos have a flag decal on them. Like CSX engineer 98 said they are a workhorse not a show horse. Consider it painted for our (the railfans) benifit.
James[C):-)]

James,...heh, "peace" man....we can disagree and still not be adversaries...

I just think that with as nit picky as UP has gotten over logo protocol...they need to walk a fine line too, and it looks to me like they are wavering.

I think technically they are in violation...the fact that other companies do it too is totally immaterial..

I looks to me like the US code had specific intent to not only prohibit crass commercialism, but to restrict the flag from being displayed in such a manner that it will look defaced. So, as silly as the original context of this thread actually is,..I think that technically it is correct....UP should have to get presidential approval, or scrape them off.

Not really there is you cannot license the flag(it is public domain), anyone can use it. No permission required, no fine line of legality. Just the good old flag. You can use the flag for anything, but UP is not using them for anything wrong.
James[C):-)]

[Anonymous]

Just wait for all those creaky old EMD's to start going up in smoke, and the image of "flags burning" to get set into the minds of impressionable youth [}:)]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Just wait for all those creaky old EMD's to start going up in smoke, and the image of "flags burning" to get set into the minds of impressionable youth [}:)]

"....and the turbo fire's red glare,
from the GE's stack into the air,
gave proof through the night,
that UP's flag decal was still there...."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE:
that nothing can stop it.

Except on the UP a local can stop a z train[:p]

[BNSF4ever]

Follow-ups:

1. I cannot say I never buy anything Made in China--it's hard not to. But if given a choice I will opt for the non-China product. If there were say, an HO-scale SD70MAC made in China or one made somewhere else, i'd take the latter.

2. Anytime you put a flag decal or patch on it's going to be hard to keep it clean. US Army soldiers wear a flag on their uniforms into combat. Are those always clean? Of course not. To me, as long as UP makes a reasonable, periodic effort to keep it clean then I am all for the flag on their locomotives.

[coborn35]

I totally agree and once again, the locomotives are nothing but workorses.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Just wait for all those creaky old EMD's to start going up in smoke, and the image of "flags burning" to get set into the minds of impressionable youth [}:)]

"....and the turbo fire's red glare,
from the GE's stack into the air,
gave proof through the night,
that UP's flag decal was still there...."

Sorry Antigates, it is not the EMD going up in smoke. GEs are known to not only smoke, but also to burn. Dan got this one right. [:D]

Many days during the week I see an L R & W Alco that actually smokes much less than the newer GEs. I could say more about the GEs but will be civil and hold my say.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Just wait for all those creaky old EMD's to start going up in smoke, and the image of "flags burning" to get set into the minds of impressionable youth [}:)]

"....and the turbo fire's red glare,
from the GE's stack into the air,
gave proof through the night,
that UP's flag decal was still there...."

Sorry Antigates, it is not the EMD going up in smoke. GEs are known to not only smoke, but also to burn. Dan got this one right. [:D]

Many days during the week I see an L R & W Alco that actually smokes much less than the newer GEs. I could say more about the GEs but will be civil and hold my say.

[#ditto]
Nice to know we can have something funny finally, this has been way too serious.
James[C):-)]

[wctransfer]

Speaking of flag logo units. I was in a Brand New SD70M Notch Nose today, wow, you can still smell how nice it is. Its not even dirty, or nasty. LOL, give it time.

Alec

[bobwilcox]

No good deed goes unpunished. Maybee they should just paint all the locomotives black with white letters to get rid of the gripes?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

No good deed goes unpunished. Maybee they should just paint all the locomotives black with white letters to get rid of the gripes?

Mybe with a nice picture of a black horsey in the nose? [:I]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

No good deed goes unpunished. Maybee they should just paint all the locomotives black with white letters to get rid of the gripes?

Never work. Somebody, somewhere will think the letters should be Dulux (gold)...

[GDRMCo]

Stop cryin till the cows come home you guys. Just get over it.
Mitchell

[Anonymous]

Here's what the real deal is..

It's called "displacment'

UP is obviously guilt ridden for the role it's playing in America's job loss abroad (by helping bring outsourced manufactured goods to American consumers.). So instead of projecting an image of "Hey, think of the hundreds of jobs outsourced to China represented in the merchandise in the containers of this train" , they instead hope you might think "salute old glory and be proud you're an American"....?[:-^][:-^][:-^]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Here's what the real deal is..

It's called "displacment'

I though that's where my plate goes......since yours goes on datplacement

[Mookie]

Dan - I am glad you are putting in an appearance. Your have been missed!

[:D]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Dan - I am glad you are putting in an appearance. Your have been missed!

[:D]

I'm here....trying to keep the fun in disfunctional

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Here's what the real deal is..

It's called "displacment'

UP is obviously guilt ridden for the role it's playing in America's job loss abroad (by helping bring outsourced manufactured goods to American consumers.). So instead of projecting an image of "Hey, think of the hundreds of jobs outsourced to China represented in the merchandise in the containers of this train" , they instead hope you might think "salute old glory and be proud you're an American"....?[:-^][:-^][:-^]

Still disagree, UP does not outsource, they have no control over what other companies do, if they didn't ship UP they would ship BNSF and you would complain about them. True, I don't like things from China, but our economy is linked to world’s economy if China has a depression our economy would not do as well. UP also has started hiring people this gives more Americans jobs. I think no guilt is involved. I suppose you don't buy gasoline either, it steals American jobs from oil companies who could employ them on oilrigs or in Alaska.
James[C):-)]

[Junctionfan]

My god; if I over analysed everything in life, my brain would have a crank-shaft explosion. Notice the word analysed has anal in it?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon



I though that's where my plate goes......since yours goes on datplacement

[:D][:D][:D] Shouldn't you be helping build another container port? You know "to keep America "strong"....[}:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098


Still disagree, UP does not outsource, they have no control over what other companies do, if they didn't ship UP they would ship BNSF and you would complain about them. True, I don't like things from China, but our economy is linked to world’s economy if China has a depression our economy would not do as well. UP also has started hiring people this gives more Americans jobs. I think no guilt is involved. I suppose you don't buy gasoline either, it steals American jobs from oil companies who could employ them on oilrigs or in Alaska.
James[C):-)]

My GOD dude, I was just having some fun,..whats so wrong with that?

Well, sort of anyway.... there is an underlying shred of truth...there is only one way to keep exportation of jobs viable as a means to cut costs, and that is to dupe the american public into streamlining the delivery channel...

Sure, building bigger deep water harbors, more productive unloading derricks , and better container trains make for a stronger America, by facilitating the employers who sent jobs abroad for cheaper labor..

So, what happens here after 70% of the population can no longer afford to buy new refridgerators, washers, and dryers?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

My god; if I over analysed everything in life, my brain would have a crank-shaft explosion. Notice the word analysed has anal in it?

Well, that's cool Junctionfan...I just tend to have this macro obsession where while a fully loaded container train is fun to watch roll by,...I can't help thinking about the stuff inside, and the liklihood that the stuff was once made in america., by american wage earners

[CSXrules4eva]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

No good deed goes unpunished. Maybee they should just paint all the locomotives black with white letters to get rid of the gripes?

NS is a perfict example of this. [:D] You don't see NS sturring up American Flag contraversy like UP do you???? lol

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098


Still disagree, UP does not outsource, they have no control over what other companies do, if they didn't ship UP they would ship BNSF and you would complain about them. True, I don't like things from China, but our economy is linked to world’s economy if China has a depression our economy would not do as well. UP also has started hiring people this gives more Americans jobs. I think no guilt is involved. I suppose you don't buy gasoline either, it steals American jobs from oil companies who could employ them on oilrigs or in Alaska.
James[C):-)]

My GOD dude, I was just having some fun,..whats so wrong with that?

Well, sort of anyway.... there is an underlying shred of truth...there is only one way to keep exportation of jobs viable as a means to cut costs, and that is to dupe the american public into streamlining the delivery channel...

Sure, building bigger deep water harbors, more productive unloading derricks , and better container trains make for a stronger America, by facilitating the employers who sent jobs abroad for cheaper labor..

So, what happens here after 70% of the population can no longer afford to buy new refridgerators, washers, and dryers?

How so chum? How will it cause 70% of the population not to be able to afford things? If you study economics money goes in cycles. A good number of overseas countries base plants and other things in the US (look at the automobile industry). Don't forget we are also out sourced to.
James[C):-)]

[oubliette]

As someone from across the pond I had the privilege to travel across the US from coast to coast on the train and I must say I have never seen a country so proud of its flag. Many houses, businesses, shops have the flag flying and this was something that struck me whilst viewing from the train. Our flag is rarely displayed (except town halls, civic buildings etc).

Of course I had seen the flag on sides of locomotives in pictures before I got there. When I saw some of the loco's I thought how great they looked and that America is a proud country and this is truly a gesture from a rail road operator that is proud to fly the flag. I never once thought how dirty it looked on some loco's but it came across more of a symbol that a country has united behind and proud to do so, other countries including ours should take lessons in patriotism. I say well done.

http://rorylushman.fotopic.net/

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon



I though that's where my plate goes......since yours goes on datplacement

[:D][:D][:D] Shouldn't you be helping build another container port? You know "to keep America "strong"....[}:)]

My speciality isn't CONstruction.................quite the opposite......

...it's poking, prodding and antagonizing.......it's a great proffession......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Lotus098

A good number of overseas countries base plants and other things in the US (look at the automobile industry). Don't forget we are also out sourced to.
James[C):-)]

Haaaa HAAAAA! HAAAA! HAAA!,,,yer pretty good man,..that was rich.

Can I suggest you look at the broader spectrum as to why so many jobs get outsourced these days?

Often in the foreign countries, they don't pay a living wage, living conditions = squalor, environmental regs are almost non existant, and the liberals have not messed up the foreign labor market by trying to implement social reform through quotas, just for starters.

Those jobs will never come back here without tariffs