QUOTE: Regarding the service levels on the VIA's Malahat, one needs to keep in the mind the reason the train continues to exist is somewhat controversial and may affect the service offered. VIA planned to discontinued service on this line along with the other gut wrenching cuts VIA made in 1990. However, the provision of train service on Vancouver Island was part of the confederation agreement BC made with the Canadian government in 1870 when it joined Canada and as a result the courts forced VIA to abandon plans to discontinue the Malahat service.
QUOTE: the Victoria-Nanaimo section, since that was the extent of the line in 1871
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions. FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been." Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
QUOTE: kevgos Posted: 29 March 2005, 14:17:25 Just thought I'dthrow some of my useless comments in here again, this time on the CP routing of what is now the Canadian... I read somewhere (can't recall where offhand) that the primary reasoning for the rerouting onto CN's track (through Edmonton and Jasper) was primarily that there were everal "influental politicians" living along the CP line (Calgary, Regina, etc.) who were said to have made it QUITE clear that they would be glad if they never saw a passenger train again. Secondly, VIA is government, like CN was at the time, so the trackage fees were likely cheaper, if not non-existant, since the government owns all 3 (the CN trains, the CN tracks and VIA). At this point (with CN being privatised, as you Canadians would say) it likely wouldn't matter cost-wise, since VIA is still government, but the railroads are both private.
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted: 29 March 2005, 14:21:13 Siberianmo stated: "Let's dwell a bit on accuracy - the pictures I have from our December 31st, 2002 departure from Toronto en route Vancouver reveals 2 coaches in the consist. The return trip on January 5th, 2003 had 2 coaches as well. I cannot and will not debate the make up of each and every train in winter - but I know what shows up on my pictures and what I saw during our walks from the Park Car forward and return ........ I'm not familiar with the publication "Branchline," but perhaps I should send them my photos." ---------------------------------- You are correct, as the dates you cite are during the Christmas/New Year's holiday travel periods, which are some of the busiest of the year. (And only two coaches then?) I would guess that the number of sleepers were increased during this time, too. One coach is standard during the slowest times of the year, and the train can run with as few as four or five sleeping cars. ---------------------------------- "Sorry, but I grow weary of the comparison to Amtrak and points in Montana. It's hands down - they ARE two different services - and VIA Rail's is better IN MY OPINION for those wanting to take a rail journey for the pleasure of it all. That's where this all began - the pleasure of it all." ---------------------------------- True. To each his own. However, we all can define pleasure in our own way. I derive great pleasure from knowing that passenger trains still can be a lifeline to the communities they serve - even in remote areas of North America.
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: 29 March 2005, 14:26:53 What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper?
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: Today, 15:53:25 QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon I have just been reading the thread from the last couple of days and found the discussions to be very interesting. --------------------------------------------- In regards to the discussion about VIA's Canadian and it continued existence, I would make a couple of notes. I think that the fact the Canadian is largely a tourist train will ultimately help to ensure its operation continues in the years to come. It has been primarily a tourist train for many years. However, Canada (especially British Columbia) is well acutely aware of the role tourism plays in the western economy. Even at the time of the 1990 VIA cuts, the arguments made for keeping the Canadian were largely based on its value to tourism. (VIA even operates an office in Japan). Due its value as a tourist train, I believe that it will live outlive the Budd passenger cars when that day eventually comes. Hello I figured that i'd wade in on the "'Canadian" discussion as well. I know that 3 years ago i atempted to get passage from Toronto to Winnepeg. I was unable to because the train was booked solid not even coach seats available. This was in early June.So tourist or not it is a gold mine for VIA and I would say virtually cut proof. You have alot af Europeans , Americans,Asian et all visitors comming to Canada to speacifically ride it. Hopefully they do eventually get back onto the proper CP trackage that should only increase ridership.And yes as aregular Canadian i would still like to eventually experience the trip as well.junctionfanThat cab ride must have been something,thanks for the Caso update as well.I've always thought myself that the 406 was the road to nowhere i've often wondered why it was built in the first place.Tear it out and put a real transportation system in. Oops I've already ranted down that path. But highspeed literail is the answer for the penninsula I truly beleave that. Perhaps in time once gas gets to a completely unmanageable price spending money on the highspeed electrification will begin to make sence. I know I'll be the first persom in line to fide Niagara Falls to Toronto and all stops in between. Rob
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: 29 March 2005, 16:08:04 QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? ---------------------------- In the instance I was looking at round trip for what I wanted TO to Winnipeg would have been $450. Airfare would have been $400 on Air Canada ( I don't like flying so this wasn't a real option for me) I ended up driving St catharines to The Peg two days and $550 worth of gas. Remembering of coarse that at the time gas was .55-.65 cents a litre fot the .81-.87 of today. The Canadian was really the cheapest option. I don't imagine the prices have changed much other than gas to today's numbers. Siberianmo Branchline is published by the Bytown Railway society. www.bytownrailwaysociety.com I beleave. It's a good magazine lots of good railway information on all the small and large operations in Canada. VIA on down. Rob
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 29 March 2005, 16:19:18 Quote If you tried to take Jetsgo, the Canadian might have been quicker too Well at least today.
QUOTE: wrwatkins Posted: 29 March 2005, 16:24:36 Quote For Siberianmo-- Since you love Budd RDC cars as I do you might want to check the current issue of Railway Age. CalTrans has some for sale there. ***
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted: 29 March 2005, 16:27:18 QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? ------------------------------------------- .Sounded like a valid question, so I checked it out: For travel tomorrow (March 30, 2005): Jasper to Edmonton, 235 miles, VIA train 2, cheapest fare available is "Comfort Liberty" (coach) at $119.84 Canadian, or $99.04 US. Meanwhile, south of the border: Whitefi***o Havre, 255 miles, Amtrak train 8, cheapest fare available is reserved coach, $32.00 US. A month from now, April 30, the cheapest VIA fare is "Comfort Super" at $90.95 Canadian, or $75.15 US; The fare on April 30 from Whitefi***o Havre remains at $32. As information, Greyhound has three daily trips from Jasper to Edmonton and its one- way fare is $57.83, or $47.75US. I would guess that at this price, there is very little local travel on the Canadian. And, remember, if you wanted to go tomorrow from, say, Valemont to Viking on the Canadian, even though you're lucky enough to have picked one of the three days per week the train runs, you're out of luck, because you didn't decide in time to book within the 48-hour limit required for travel to/from some of the "smaller" stations. It appears that "Comfort Liberty" is the highest, or least-restrictive coach fare, and is all that is available for tomorrow. What is not known is whether the high fare is in place to limit ridership in the limited coach space, or whether the fare is just highest closest to the time of travel, as is usually the case. As for the Empire Builder, there are indeed every day numerous people riding between Whitefish and Shelby and between Havre and Minot. Whether these people could tolerate VIA-like high fares is not known. They don't have the option of alternate bus transportation.
QUOTE: passengerfan Posted: 29 March 2005, 18:41:31 I remember one of my most memorable trips across Canada was in February 1968 on a trip that that I will never forget. I left Miami on an Air Canada DC-8 for a non-stop flight to Montreal where I grabbed a cab to Central Station and with fifteen minutes to spare boarded the westbound Panoram for Winnipeg and after a lengthy layover continued on to Vancouver on the western Panorama complet with Dome from Winnipeg. In those days the Montreal section and the Toronto section of the Panorama and Super Continental were combined and separated at Capreal in Northern Ontario. The CP Canadian sectiond from Montreal and Toronto were combined or separated at Sudbury. The Panorama was actually a full service train with equipment almost identical to the Super Continental. This included coaches a coach lounge dining car firat class lounge car and sleeping cars almost the identical makeup to the Super Continental. I don't know if CN was trying to get rid of the train or what but as I recall the layover in Winnipeg was about eight hours if one had a through ticket. Believe me Winnipeg in February is no place to be outside the station. I have heard the corner of Portage and Main is one of the coldest in Canada and I will take their word for it. The train west of Winnipeg was more crowded than the Panoram east of Winnipeg had been the Former Milwaukee Super Dome was a great place to relax and enjoy the trip with the lounge on the lower level great to talk with fellow passengers. The Sceneramic Domes as CN called them operated on the Panorama between Winnipeg and Vancouver at the time and on the Super Continental between Edmonton and Vancouver at the time. The CP had already discontinued their secondary transcontinental the Dominion by this time and Montreal CP coach yard had an excess of Park cars and Skyline cars their that had formerly operated in that train. My return from Vancouver that February 1968 was with my new wife on the Canadian to Toronto. Probably the hardest part of that trip was leaving Miami where the temperature was in the high 70's and landing in Montreal in minus temperatures later that same evening.
QUOTE: Dayliner Posted: 29 March 2005, 18:53:11 QUOTE: Regarding the service levels on the VIA's Malahat, one needs to keep in the mind the reason the train continues to exist is somewhat controversial and may affect the service offered. VIA planned to discontinued service on this line along with the other gut wrenching cuts VIA made in 1990. However, the provision of train service on Vancouver Island was part of the confederation agreement BC made with the Canadian government in 1870 when it joined Canada and as a result the courts forced VIA to abandon plans to discontinue the Malahat service. ------------------------------------- As with most things concerning the E&N these days, the litigation over the passenger service is quite convoluted. When VIA planned to cut the service in 1990, the provincial government argued in BC Supreme Court (and won) that there was indeed a constitutional obligation to provide passenger service on the E&N, dating from the time BC joined Confederation in 1871. However, the court found that the obligation to provide passenger service applied only to the Victoria-Nanaimo section, since that was the extent of the line in 1871. Nevertheless, VIA maintained its service over the entire Victoria sub, Victoria to Courtenay. The BC Supreme Court decision was appealed, and some years later the Supreme Court of Canada found that there was no constitutional obligation to provide passenger service on the E&N. Notwithstanding that decision, VIA has continued to operate the service.
QUOTE: Dayliner Posted: 29 March 2005, 19:02:57 QUOTE: the Victoria-Nanaimo section, since that was the extent of the line in 1871 ------------------------------------------- Supplemental--big historical boo-boo: the E&N, of course, was completed in 1886. Duh! So I can't explain the reasons for the BC Supreme Court's decision--maybe there are some legal beagle railfans out there who can?
QUOTE: enr2099 Posted: 29 March 2005, 19:13:32 I may be wrong but in 1994, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that VIA has no obligation to run the passenger service on the E&N. I should also point out that the agreement was signed in 1871, but the E&N didn't exist until 1883, and didn't start running trains until 1886. Tyler Welsford
QUOTE: enr2099 Posted: 29 Mar 2005, 19:21: In 1871, the CPR was supposed to build the trans-Canada rail line over to the island via Seymore Narrows to Esquimalt. When the CPR decided to run the line to Port Moody instead, the agreement was still binding. The Feds had to provide rail service between Victoria and Nanaimo, that's when Sir John A. MacDonald convinced Robert Dunsmuir to build the E&N and by 1886 the E&N was up and running. Tyler Welsford
QUOTE: OnHarry Posted: 29 Mar 2005, 20:26: If I might digress for a moment or two. As someone stated earlier on, in the 1960's CN was making a sincere effort to increase passenger trains. Even then they seemed to put most of their efforts into the WIndsor Quebec City Corrider. One pleasant benefit of that policy was that they kept a steam engine available for excursion service, in this case Northern 6218. In Brantford the S. C. Johnson company chartered the steam engine for a trip to the Toronto Islands for a company picnic, I believe in 1969 but I forget the exact date. The engine ran light to Brantford and turned itrself on the wye at Lynden Ontario at the Branchton Subdivision, (and the former Great Western mainline) then backed into Brantford. My friend, Carl Bury and I were walking out to Park Road to catch the 6218 as it entered Brantford. We were caught by surprise as it was moving light having no train to pull, and backwards. I managed to get a picture of it though. Somewhat later I caught it again this time running forward with the train heading for Toronto and a large banner across the front of the engine. That was a memeorable experience, but not the most memeorable of the day. Carl and I with the indulgence of my dad, (neither of us could drive at that point) went out to Lynden that evening to await the return of the charter train, it was getting too dark to take pictures so you have only my visual remembrances of what happened then. We waited at Lynden and saw the usual frieght and passenger trains of that time of the evening, but we kept watching to the east for the steamer. We were worried they might end up subbing a diesel for the 6218. Sometime around 9 or 9:30 we saw a headlight come over the top of the grade from Dundas to the east and knew right away that the 6218 was still in command. As it approched Lynden, it is a fairly long straightaway, we could see the smoke from the exhaust in the dying light and dad who had see many more trains than we had, as he was a sectionman in the TH&B, said "he's moving pretty fast". He was right, as it approached Lynden and the crossing there, we had no reason to doubt, Dad's initial statement. The train was moving westward at great speed now released from the constraints of the grade. It was a blur approaching us and as it came closer to the protected crossing , it started the usual signal except of course this was a steam whistle, and it sent chills up and down my spine as it literally roared towards us, and then it was upon us, a blinding flash of rods and steam and noise as it pounded past us at what must have been close to the passenger limit of eighty miles per hour. You know for one brief moment we were transported to an era when there was only steam, and passenger trains ran in defiance of the fastest freight trains. Sorry for the attempt at a poetic flight of fancy there, but that was also the CN passenger service in the 60's. I have pictures of that day and when I find them I will try and post them. James
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 29 Mar 2005, 22:06: If the CASO was still around, it would have been nice for a VIA train to go on that. Stations could be in Niagara Falls, Hagersville, St.Thomas, Simcoe and Windsor.
QUOTE: chateauricher Posted: 29 Mar 2005, 23:13: As stated in earlier posts, it is true that VIA Rail fares seem to be considerably higher than those for Amtrak trains travelling similar distances. However, has anyone considered why this is so? Could it be that the quality of the service and rolling stock is much better on the north side of the border? A few years ago, I took the train from Quebec City to NYC. The VIA train from Quebec City to Montreal consisted of well maintained and staffed cars. A staff member made rounds regularly during the 3 hour trip selling snacks and drinks. This was true in each of the cars in the train. I can't say the same for the 10+ hour train ride on Amtrak from Montreal to NYC. The only staff I saw the entire trip was the conductor collecting tickets after each stop. For food and drinks, you had to make your way to the dining car's snack bar. I happened to be seated in the last car and had to walk through another car to get to the dining car. I saw no staff members anywhere except in the dining car. The toilet was a mess. Upon entering the toilet, you stood in a veritable lake (I hoped it was water). There were no towels to dry your hands. The toilet paper had fallen into the "lake". When you washed your hands, the water flowed quite nicely down the drain in the sink, right onto the floor. (So, it was water! ) The cars themselves must have dated from the 1950s or 1960s -- poorly maintained, in dire need of renovations -- with fluorescent lighting that gave me a splitting headache by the time we arrived in NYC's Penn Station (some 40 minutes late). I felt safe and secure on the VIA train. If any passenger needed assistance, there was always a staff member around to whom you could turn. Amtrak seemed to prefer you fend for yourself. The ticket prices were drastically different (as you may have guessed). The Quebec City- Montreal leg cost about $50 one-way (I forget the exact amount). The Montreal-NYC leg of the trip cost about $130 (return). Yes, VIA Rail cost a lot more (per kilometre); but I felt I got a lot better service and a much better experience. When comparing VIA Rail to Amtrak, they are so different, its almost like comparing apples to oranges -- the only similarities they share are the facts they are both fruits borne on trees (passenger rail service in North America). So, is it really fair to compare them at all ?
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 30 March 2005, 06:42:24 I would say it is. Both services are products of North Americans and supposidly pride of the government. Amtrak is a product of government that doesn't have pride in that and VIA is a product of government who has certain pride for image.
QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy Tom if you are wanting some other good reading I have a couple of suggestions.Interesting that you mentioned the need for a new and comprehensive rail system mg-lev et all.There once was an influential Ontario Cabinet minister know us Sir adam Beck his dream was a comprehensive electric interurban system of travel. In his time over 30 systems were established. It's too bad his vision wasen't continued all those systems are now gone and we will need to rebuild them eventually when the gas does hit $5.00 a gallon. If you can find it a good book on Sir Adam is Cataract Traction by Jihn Mills. It has been out of production for several years but I see copies popingup used here or there.I know the author as well he's one of our museums founding members. The book cronicles the beck lines The London and Port Stanely the Toronto Suberban. Hamilton and Brantford.the list goes on. It's well worth the read if you can get your hands on it. The second is Traction on the Grand by the same author. They cover essentialy all of Ontario's interurban routes.You can check our museum's online gift shop listings normally we don't have the books but quite often we find older copies and resell them. If you let our powers at be know your looking for them we can advise you if copies become available. Rob
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 30 March 2005, 09:33:05 I compare the government's treating of the passenger service to the kind of pride in your own home. If you take good care of your home and take pride in it, it will pay off and it will look good. It pays off because it increases the value and is pleasing to the eye. Because Amtrak is lousy in comparison to VIA, I can't help think that there is a bunch of congressman and senators with uncut lawns, dishes all over the furniture, dirty floors and other eye sores. It sounds silly but that is what it is like; they don't show any pride in their belongings. It helps thought that David Colonette ex transportation minister, was a railfan who prefered VIA.
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: Today, 14:41:16 On the Aderondak between Montreal and New York. Didn't you realize it was VIA's responsibility to clean up the mess on the train and send it out clean? Amtrak doesn't ahve the workers in Montreal, they belong to VIA! Of course if things get tight, I can see why the coach cleaners would give priority to VIA;s own equipment over "foriegners". That's just natural.
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: 30 March 2005, 15:51:40 Tom if you are wanting some other good reading I have a couple of suggestions. Interesting that you mentioned the need for a new and comprehensive rail system mg-lev et all.There once was an influential Ontario Cabinet minister know us Sir adam Beck his dream was a comprehensive electric interurban system of travel. In his time over 30 systems were established. It's too bad his vision wasen't continued all those systems are now gone and we will need to rebuild them eventually when the gas does hit $5.00 a gallon. If you can find it a good book on Sir Adam is Cataract Traction by Jihn Mills. It has been out of production for several years but I see copies popingup used here or there.I know the author as well he's one of our museums founding members. The book cronicles the beck lines The London and Port Stanely the Toronto Suberban. Hamilton and Brantford.the list goes on. It's well worth the read if you can get your hands on it. The second is Traction on the Grand by the same author. They cover essentialy all of Ontario's interurban routes.You can check our museum's online gift shop listings normally we don't have the books but quite often we find older copies and resell them. If you let our powers at be know your looking for them we can advise you if copies become available. Rob
QUOTE: athelney Posted: 30 Mar 2005, 20:22:35 RE the thought about dome car names - a good source of passenger car info is the Canadian Trackside Guide -put out by the good folks at the Bytown Railway Society in Ottawa - see previous reference about the Branchline magazine Section 4 lists all the VIA passenger cars & names as well as info about other railways in Canada - including timetables etc -- ( also includes Freight items as well ) Be warned!!!!
QUOTE: OnHarry Posted: 31 March 2005, 04:38:01 It is ironic that the Brantford and Hamilton right of way in Eagle Place in Brantford was built on what used to be the tow path for the canal built many years earlier by the Grand River Navigation Company, and of course is now a walking path. However even more ironic is that the 403 where it travels from Ancaster to West Hamilton used the same railway's right of way for it's own multi lane limited access highway. Those tracks in Eagle Place were still there until abut 15 or so years ago, perhaps a bit longer back as with age the time periods seem to compress. Even though the railway was abandoned in the early thirties.
QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy Hello again everybody. Tom the branchline guide is sort of the Canadain railfans bible. It also has an extensive section on preserved equipment in museums or otherwise.Right down to cabooses in peoples back yards.For light rail and traction fans all this sort of equipment is also chronicled what's new what's gone etc etc. Oh harryIt's interesting that you mentioned the old Brantford and Hamilton right of way. Oddly enough we live in Eagle place along the old canal. My street dend ends onto the embankment.You can still see where the line ran most of the trackage has now been lifted.The old GRR and LE&N right of ways through Brantford have been converted to trails as well. Heres hoping that eventually we will decide to convert some of these trails to rails. I actually hope the K/W literail system does go through by 2008 as they are tentivly planning for. Who knows if ridership is good it could concievably be extended down through Cambridge and back into Brantford along the old GRR right of way parallelling highway 24. You don't see many people walking that trail any way. I'm dicking now in case someone who likes the trail tries to through something at me. Rob
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions. FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."] Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 13:45:02 I wonder if VIA has thought about an Autotrain on the Windsor Corridor?
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 14:21:20 Look, I apologize if I seem crass. But obvioiusly the conductor could hold the train, but what good would it do? The train isn't cleaned at Central Station, but at coach yards. Once the train is moved by VIA people to Central Station where the Amtrak crew boards, and you can check me out on this, there is very little the Amtrak crew can do except to take the train out to Rouses Point or wherever the crew change point is. But I can understand the coach cleaners' position too. Maybe the train came in with such a complete mess, that all they could do was get the water off the floor in the passenger seating area, never mind the restrooms! I'd be interested in what time of year this was. In New York, the train is supposed to be serviced at Sunnyside Yard. Suppose this was a day when there was some "event" on the Long Island railroad and especially in the East River tunnels and the inbound train with this same equipment before the one you rode never made it to Sunnyside but had to sit overnight in Penn Station and then go out the next morning! There are all kinds of things that can happen, and I do agree, because of more realistic funding in terms of its mission, that VIA passengers generally fair better than most Amtrak passengers, and pay more for the privilege. I really happen to be a fan of Canada. When Israelis and Europeans ask which is my favorite "American" city, by which I know they mean USA City (another two hour discussion on that confusion!), I make that point and then go on to say my favorite USA City happens to be Toronto, except it happens to be in Canada. In other words, Toronto to me is closer to what the ideal USA city should be than any USA City. But I may have to backpedal on that now that Denver and Salt Lake City, two of my most favorite USA Cities, have expanding light rail systems. All three cities have decent orchestras and concert halls. Now if only Roanoke would get a light rail system! And there is a lot more to Toronto than the light rail system. There is the excellent Union Station and the number of trains calling there. There is the general civility and ability of many different ethnic groups to get along together. Food variety. Culture. A generally educated and civil population.
QUOTE: OnHarry Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 19:45:09 [PARTIALLY QUOTED] QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy. Oh harryIt's interesting that you mentioned the old Brantford and Hamilton right of way. Oddly enough we live in Eagle place along the old canal. My street dend ends onto the embankment.You can still see where the line ran most of the trackage has now been lifted.The old GRR and LE&N right of ways through Brantford have been converted to trails as well. Heres hoping that eventually we will decide to convert some of these trails to rails. I actually hope the K/W literail system does go through by 2008 as they are tentivly planning for. Who knows if ridership is good it could concievably be extended down through Cambridge and back into Brantford along the old GRR right of way parallelling highway 24. You don't see many people walking that trail any way. I'm dicking now in case someone who likes the trail tries to through something at me. Rob -------------------------------------------------- Wow what a small world. I grew up on Cayuga Street number 28, just up from the TH&B tracks. When I was very small, much smaller than I am now LOL, I remember actually seeing what I assume was an LE&N electric engine on that thrack, and later on, one of the SW 1200's shunting cars of hydro poles to the then PUC facility at the foot of Murry street. they used to put maybe one or two cars a year in there. There used to be a sort of small yard with a couple of short tracks just west of Alfred Street though it was never used in my lifetime, and I was not into railway archeology when I was young or I would have scrutinized the area better. However I truly do digress, so I will mention something more pertinent to the topic. There was a time when I was not as yet gainfully employed but living at home I had this bit of money burning a hole in my pocket . I asked the night ticket agent in Brantford one evening, I want to take a trip from Brantford to Montreal and back, in one day is it possible, and to further complicate things I wanted to take the Turbo train at least one way. Well we all know the old saw about fools and their ability to retain cash. I embarked a week or so later leaving Brantford on the first trian of the morning around 7:30 getting into Toronto around 9 give or take a bit. I then went to gate 1 where the Turbo boarded it was not off the main concourse but rather was off a room the was west of the main hall. You walked out at track level, I felt like a VIP. I believe the Turbo left at roughly Ten in the morning I will have to look it up. The trip was very good, the train felt to me like riding a sport car as it seemed to bank on the curves differently than a normal train does. It also seemed rather low as compared to other trains and it stopped only at Pickering and Dorval. and I think Belleville for a crew change, but I could be wrong there. We arrived in Montreal on time and I spent three or four hours wandering around the CN station looking at the sights, I swear there wasn't a woman over thirty and they all looked great. Anyway I returned to Toronto on the afternoon Rapido which left around four I think, I really have to check an old timetable. The rapido was I think an hour or hour and a half slower than the Turbo though still quite respectable. I arrived in the evening and missed the earlier train west by half an hour, so I had to wait till 11 and catch the last train west which may have still been the International Limited, which got me home around 12:30 tecnically the next day. I was tired but it had been a great trip. I will check for an old schedule and if I find one will edit the post for the correct times.
QUOTE: Grinandbearit Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 21:07:54 On the subject of fares, maybe, just maybe the VIA passengers are paying closer to the actual cost of the service provided. VIA s operating subsidy last year was about $170m and if you consider that they are providing service such as The Hudson Bay, the northern Quebec trains, the Malahat and northern Ontario Budds which all must take up a good portion of that subsidy, then the other trains, the Canadian,the Ocean and the corridor trains must be close to the break even point and in the summer tourist season could even make money. And by the way 'The Enterprise' is in the new schedule coming out on May 1, so no cuts there.
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 23:41:02 Oh Harry that sounds like a wonderfull trip,I wonder if it could still be done (minus the turbo's of coarse) The small alfred street yard is still partially there one track crossing Grenwich which is not used indeed not conected anymore but the other main track that comes down clarence and crosses over Grenwich is still used by CN to switch the old area around the Massey Plants.Those electrics were likely the left over steeple cabs on the GRR/ LE&N they ran up until 1961 the the deisels took over. It's nice seeing the old grand trunk station still in full use. VIA re-roofed and redid the waiting rooms and washrooms last year 1 million or so.Regular VIA service for the corridor still very much in full swing 10 weekday trains 8 weekend. We can go Brantford to Hamilton in about an hour and three quaters $50 round trip not too horrible concidering gas prices and ugh Toronto parking fees and traffic woes. Last year when we went into toronto we took the 7:15 to toronto LRC coaches and a P42 the return train left Toronto Union at 8:30 was all bud with F40PH and a baggage wich was a run through from Montreal to sarnia. Today i was down at the station in it's hobby shop(yes good MRR shop in what was the Ladies lounge) and the two VIA's were both all Bud consists so they are still in corridor service not just on the Canadian.I have to say that having ridden in both Bud and LRC equipment I prefer the Bud's ride. Thankfully I haven't seen any marked deterioration on the usual Bud equipment and so far none of the new euro-style renasance cars have come our way. Rob
QUOTE: Sterling1 Posted: 31 Mar 2005, 23:53:06 BYOB Bless your only brothers . . .
QUOTE: Sterling1Posted: 01 April 2005, 00:13:56 What are the prices for Canadian right now if I wanted to go Vancouver to Toronto? Cheapest please. Sorry haven't been on a VIA train. By the way, did VIA ever think of using Superliners or did they think it more profitable to use the Budd trains?
QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 I forgot to add this question last night/early this morning: Did Algoma Central have any local trains or were they all tour trains? Anything special in the way of equipment? On that note when did Ontario Northland start operations and what kinds of paseenger equipment have they used?
QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy QUOTE: Originally posted by Sterling1 I forgot to add this question last night/early this morning: Did Algoma Central have any local trains or were they all tour trains? Anything special in the way of equipment? On that note when did Ontario Northland start operations and what kinds of paseenger equipment have they used? Hello brief answers to yuor questions. Algoma does hvae some local passenger service between Sault Ste Marie and Hawk Junction possibly still as far north as Hearst. Searchmont and the canyon are stops for these trains as well. For the smallar communities these trains are still a necessity as the roads there are poor to non-existant. I'm sure CN wishes to end these trains but so far can not. Most of the passenger service on the ACR are the tour trains which the round trip from the Sault to the canyon and back is an 8 hour excursion(with dinning car service as well) worth the trip actually. The northlander started out in the early 1900's 06 or 07 I beleave you'll need to do some research for the exact dates. It was originally known as the TN&O ( Temiskaming and Northern Ontario) they ran your basic period wooden heavy weight cars (6 axle) they also owned the Nippissing Central which was an electric intururban line that Ran to Haleybarry,Cobalt& Timmins. This equipment was again your usual turn of the century wooden electric railway equipment.The currant Northland passenger equipment is refurbished single level go commutor cars and coaches. And as well as the Polarbear Express tour trains they maintain regular passenger service Toronto to North Bay and Northbay to the Arctic rim at Moosenee / Moose factory on James bay again these are essential service trains as highways are basically non-existant after Cocheran ontario.There is a good book out on the first hundred years of the ONR. If you go to our museum website we sell it. A very informative book. www.hcry.org Rob
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