CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

[daveklepper]

Are there other provinces besides Newfy and PEI that have absolutely no common carrier rail service? Is this fair?

[trolleyboy]

It's not fair but from the financial end there aren't enough people there to sustain a system.For instance the entire population of PEI is smaller than the city of Toronto.I imagine that if NFLD had not been narrow guage there may have been some drive ti maintain both freight and passenger service. When you think of how everything had to be ferried to the mainland and trucks swaped at both ends made for some heavy ca***o run the trains.The territories have little to no rail service Yulon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service. Bottom Line is we have less than 40 million people living here that makes for few train riders in some areas. I would say that we have a fairly well supported and thought out system. I myself would like to see fuller service but that's probably a few years off. VIA is somewhat not on the govt, radar as far as expanding service at the moment. Rob

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
Has anyone here taken the Quebec Central tourist train recently ? Their web site is ... http://www.beaucerail.ca/

Is this the same outfit that used to run the "timber train" excursions from just out side of North bay to the Temiskaming paper plants in nor. Quebec?

Uhhh... no, Rob. [v]

The QCT does not run in Ontario (The Québec part of the name being quite indicative of its location). At one time, it linked Québec City to Sherbrooke via the Beauce region of Québec. Today, it runs tourist trains April through November (operating as Trains Touristiques de Chaudière-Appalaches) out of Vallée-Jonction (about 1hr south of Québec City) to as far south as Sherbrooke (depending on the type of excursion package).

[daveklepper]

If they ever build a causeway to PEI, will there be any possibility of restoring rail service?

Did anyone discuss standard gauging Newfoundland?

[morseman]

To: DAVE KLEPPER There is a bridge to PEI. The Confereration bridge Vehicle traffic only Doubt if rail service will ever be restored. I just got back from rail trip to fort Lauderdale and a cruise to Eastern Caribbean and now catching up on all the forum topics etc, You all will be hearing more from me shortly.

[Junctionfan]

Does the PEI causeway have room or is structurally sound for a single rail line expansion? I don't know what kind of demand for rail is there but you never know. A rail ride on the confederation bridge is enough of a tourist attraction.

[morseman]

there is definitely no way that a rail line could be constructed on the confederation
bridge linking New Brunswick and PEI. It is 12,9 km long, built in spring of 1997.
A multispan concrete box structure. It is curved in the middle supposedly to
protect the eco system of the gulf of St.Lawrence & and also prevent accidents from
people dozing off when driving over a such a long stretch of straight road. During severe storms the bridge is closed and if you have fears of driving your car over it
There are personnel who will drive your car for you. IMy wife and I took a bus tour to PEI and had a lovely view from the bus over the bridge which you can't get by car cause of the high walls.

To answer your question....... No way could a rail line be put on the bridge.

[morseman]

Quite a few folks from U>S> on this forum asking about taking
trips on Canadian trains and lookinf for info.

While in Philly my wife goes shopping and I spend several
hours in Borders coffee shop reading RR books and mags.
(I sometimes do spend a few bucks and buy a book)

I came across the following book with plenty of info for
those coming north this summer

TRANS CANADA RAIL GUIDE - trailblazer publications
3rd edition 2003 Author Melissa Graham
US price $16.95 Cda price $24.95

This is the first rail guide by an author in England
that I have found that has a good understanding of
railroads with plenty of pertinent information..

VIA timetable shows distances in kilometers
and shows CN division distances in miles
Excellent strip maps, RR historical facts,
city maps and guides & list of background reading

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

The territories have little to no rail service Yukon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service.

What is the status of the CN's former Great Slave Lake Railway into the Northwest Territories? (I know its not passenger but...) I had heard a few years ago that is was almost dormant.

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

If they ever build a causeway to PEI, will there be any possibility of restoring rail service?

Did anyone discuss standard gauging Newfoundland?

Hi Dave they did build tthe confederation bridge it's been open almost 8 yearsnow I think, all the rail is gone so it would be a rebuilding of the entire line.All the farmers use trucks for their produce to the mainland. I'm sure the standard guaging was discussed but again in the bean counters eyes(these were govt ones as CN and TERRA transport were crown corps at the time)said no way not enough freight rev or passenger rev. I can only imagine what the CN's bean counters would say about it now as they have shareholders to worry about. I figure that if the govt. pulls the plug theres not much hope private investers would have allowed it to flourish. sorry chateau different line The timbertrain discontinued two or three years ago i was just wondering if they had been part of the same company. Rob

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

The territories have little to no rail service Yukon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service.

What is the status of the CN's former Great Slave Lake Railway into the Northwest Territories? (I know its not passenger but...) I had heard a few years ago that is was almost dormant.

the last I had heard is that they have applied for abandonment or sale. Railtex or another type may be interested.I haven't seen any mention in branchline about it for quite a while. They very well could have pulled up most of the track by now.I beleave most of the mines that they served with the line have closed so not much chance in reserecting it. Rob

[Junctionfan]

I heard VIA will be adding trains in Ontario. Where and when is this happening?

[TH&B]

VIA Rail wants to run trains into the Hamilton TH&B station to terminate from Ottawa and Montreal. The trains now terminate at Aldershot and head further west to Hamilton Jct to wye the train wich is only 2 and a half miles from the TH&B station !!

What the problem realy is and why they delay in small extension to reach a downtown city I dont know. Somebody doesn't want it I guess. The track to the station is owened by CPRail, the rest is owend by CN.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

the last I had heard is that they have applied for abandonment or sale. Railtex or another type may be interested.I haven't seen any mention in branchline about it for quite a while. They very well could have pulled up most of the track by now.I beleave most of the mines that they served with the line have closed so not much chance in reserecting it. Rob

I should have done a little more research before posting the question. After reading your response I checked out www.cn.ca and noticed that they show it as a shortline on their system map already. So I checked out RailAmerica's website and found that it has become part of their system of shortlines called Mackenzie Northern Railways. Interestingly enough CP Rail has operating information on their site that says trains operate into the North West Territories three days a week. I think it is an intriguing rail line and I would love to know more about its present day operations. It would be sad if it was eventually abandoned because its whole purpose was supposed to be to open up the north.

Too bad it didn't have any passenger trains. I once took a 24 hour train ride in Norway, north from Oslo to the end of the line because the train crossed the Artic Circle. It was fun to do, going to the Northwest Territories just because you could would be a similar type of experience.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

VIA Rail wants to run trains into the Hamilton TH&B station to terminate from Ottawa and Montreal. The trains now terminate at Aldershot and head further west to Hamilton Jct to wye the train wich is only 2 and a half miles from the TH&B station !!

Trains.com Newswire had a story about this last week. I am curious about it because I thought from information I read on this forum that VIA Rail's budget had been cut and service levels were going to be reduced. This seems like it is going in the other direction.

I wish VIA Rail would increase the frequency of the Canadian to Vancouver, at least from May to September. VIA Rail talked about adding a fourth weekly train during the summer a few years ago but nothing happened. Does VIA Rail even have enough equipment sitting around anymore to contemplate increasing the frequency?

[morseman]

Editorial in our local weekly newspaper today
Ontario Northland is embarking on a new adventure to travel
Its called customer service After years with little or no growth
in the number of paying passengers, the people running the
railway have finally figured out that changes are in order.
Starting Monday the train will be running un daylight hours.
The northbound will leave Toronto at 9am arriving in cottage
country around noon
and leaving during the afternoon avoiding the highway jams
on route 11 and 400.
the change should be an improvemnet & will no longer be
dropping off old ladies in the middle of the night at cold,
empty train stations in northern Ontario as it did on its
old schedule.

[siberianmo]

Well, I said 'goodbye' some time ago - but having seen morseman return from vacation and essentially keeping things moving along - as did trolleyboy before - I must say - well done.

I knew when this idea of mine was "born" that those of you with Canadian Passenger Railroading interests would come forth ...... and you have![tup][tup][tup][;)]

Now - that's great news about the ON Northland and their daylight scheduling. This is long overdue and most welcomed.

I've seen some commentary regarding VIA Rail's "Canadian" and the equipment being used. I can add that "change" is inevitable - no matter how much many of us won't like what eventually will happen - new equipment, or new "used" equipment. For now, enjoy the Budd stainless steel cars! Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."

I found some great information regarding VIA Rail's "Ocean" - at least I think it is "great." Beginning in May, they are going to add another complete consist of Budd stainless steel cars to the route - thereby making two round trips each way available to those of us who prefer the Budd equipment over the "Euro" - Renaissance - cars. Good move.

So, thanx to that move by VIA Rail - I'm booked on TWO roundtrips on the "Ocean" in May - one with my wife and one without! As long as they run 'em - I'll pay to ride 'em ....... Budd cars that is.[;)]

So - that should tell you that the "inventory" of Budd cars is still sufficient to accommodate those of us who appreciate them. But, it surely doesn't mean they will last indefinitely - we all know better than that.

By the way, thanx very much to those of you who have sent me e-mails over these past several weeks. I tried to explain, the best I could, why my decision was made - haven't changed my mind. However, I am very pleased to see that a "nucleus" of contributors remains who have no particular "agendas" to push ... this was and is supposed to be a thread to ENJOY! [tup][;)]

See y'all later ... don't know when though.

Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo)

[passengerfan]

Remember taking family on trip to Niagara Falls from Toronto on a fine summer day in 1970. We boarded the train in Toronto Union Station and were soon underway. The train had a Baggage Car, Two Coaches and a Snack coach. The power was a pair of GMD-1s equipped with steam generators. Both were the A-1-A trucked versions and they were clean as was the entire consist.
After spending the day at the falls we returned to the station to find the same train for our return trip this was its second trip of the day for the consist. On the return the baggage car trailed as the consist was not turned at Niagara they simply ran the power to the other end and coupled up.
As we returned to Toronto remember seeing a TH&B train outbound from Toronto with PC Sleeper on rear destined for New York City.
The next time we traveled to Niagara Falls the train was comprised of an RDC-2 and two RDC-1's.
Rather than look back through the entire forum don't remember anyone commenting on the Tempo equipment that operated from Toronto to Windsor and Sarnia. The CN converted RS-18"s with a Cummings HEP package in the short hood and regeared the units to run at 90 mph. The lightweight cars were new built in Thunder Bay and featured outside disc brakes. The trains were generally between four and six cars in length and if operated with more cars a second RS-18 was added for power. They increased the schedule and people generally accepted the new trains but for people who had ridden other trains the lightweight cars had a terrible ride. It didn't take long for VIA to sell the cars to the Rio Grande where they became the new ski train from Denver. They certainly look fine in the Grande Gold with stripes, but I'm sure the color change did not improve the ride of these Hawker Siddeley built cars. In the longe area when operating at 60 or faster you had to drink your beer from the bottle or wear it. The ride was that bad.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."![/b] [tup][;)]

Siberianmo, I don't necessarily agree that it would take additional funding to increase the frequency of the "Canadian". It would depend on how they did it. If they ran additional frequencies only during peak season and possibly in BC and Alberta, it may be able to pay for itself. I found a series of letters between Transport Canada and the Canadian government from 1997 ( http://www.vcn.bc.ca/2000bc/learning/passrail/via_vanc_jasper.html ) when it was previously proposed to increase the frequencies. According to Transport 2000 BC VIA Rail expected to recover 130% of the marginal operating costs from additional frequencies. I don't know of any reasons the estimates still wouldn't be true today. However, the problem today would still probaby be the same as in 1997 - that is political sensitivity that the government was stealing a private operator's business.

[tatans]

Rail service to PEI was by train ferry, a model which is in the maritime museum in Halifax, The bridge, which was one of the most expensive projects ever undertaken in Canada resulted in a very narrow TWO lane bridge with no shoulder, and cars cannot see over the side because of the high walls this massive project, all this to service a small island of 2000 sq. miles and a population of @ 150,000, that already had an efficient ferry system in place.

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: andrewjonathon Posted: 24 Apr 05, 18:34:04
Originally posted by siberianmo
Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Siberianmo, I don't necessarily agree that it would take additional funding to increase the frequency of the "Canadian". It would depend on how they did it. If they ran additional frequencies only during peak season and possibly in BC and Alberta, it may be able to pay for itself. I found a series of letters between Transport Canada and the Canadian government from 1997 ( http://www.vcn.bc.ca/2000bc/learning/passrail/via_vanc_jasper.html ) when it was previously proposed to increase the frequencies. According to Transport 2000 BC VIA Rail expected to recover 130% of the marginal operating costs from additional frequencies. I don't know of any reasons the estimates still wouldn't be true today. However, the problem today would still probaby be the same as in 1997 - that is political sensitivity that the government was stealing a private operator's business.

Excellent point and don't doubt for a minute that what you say "could" work ..... sorry to say that I couldn't access that URL ...

My comment was more in line with the recent announcement from Ottawa that "The Federal Government's Expenditure Review has mandated a 5% cut across the board to all government programmes including VIA Rail. The 5% cut would mean VIA losing $7 million in Government support annually." (Source: Transport 2000 Canada, Vol 26, No. 6 - Dec 2004) If these cuts are to take place, there's already serious talk about discontinuation of VIA routes (stipulated in the article). In the face of this kind of talk, my thinking is that expansion of the schedule for the "Canadian" simply wouldn't "fly."

See ya! [tup][;)]

[Anonymous]

Hopefully this will get Tom (Siberianmo) to come back.

I am facinated about the prospect of linking Alaska to the rest of the North American rail system. The recently announced 80+/- mile extension towards Delta (not sure of the exact terminis) is a good start. Permafrost is not a problem as trains run to Churchill over the permafrost without undue problems. What is the rest of the alignment? Where will it connect to the rest of North america? I heard that BC Rail's Deese Lake line would not be used. Why?

Lets get some good feeds on this thread.

*** Watkins

[siberianmo]

***,

I've sent you several e-mails over the past few weeks ..... are you getting them?

Tom

[Anonymous]

Tom-

Have not received your emails. I guess the gremlins of the ether have eaten them. Please try my home email at [e-mail]. I WILL respond to you.

Cheers,
***

[siberianmo]

*** - Is this what you are referring to?

I found this topic posted on the Model Railroader (general discussions forum)

QUOTE: tatans Posted: 22 Mar 2005, 15:39:38
The Canadian Government has applied for a feasability study to connect Alaska and B.C. by rail. It will start outside Fairbanks and head south to Fort Nelson or Dease lake, approx. 1800 km. and cost $4 billion, now just who is going tp pay for it?

It sort of "died on the vine" - might have gotten more mileage on this forum .....

Anyway, tell us what you know!

Oh yes, e-mail has been re-re-re-re-sent.[;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[Junctionfan]

Considering it is a major economic development, the goverments of B.C and Alaska should pitch in $500 million each and the Federal Governments of Canada and the U.S should pitch in $1.5 billion each.

[siberianmo]

That's fine, but ....... would someone start this at the beginning, puleeeeeeeze!

[daveklepper]

The Tempo cars on the Moffat line to Winter Park (actually reversed at Granby, an operating point with sidings) don't get much of a chance for high-speed operation because of grades and curves. So the ride qualtiy might be less important. And, of course the Burnham shop people had lots of smarts. They had to have smarts to keep the Budd equipment in such really fine mechanical shape for so many years on the Rio Grande Zephyr. So maybe they added dampers/shock absorbers, reprofiled the wheels, changed the spring constants or whatnot. Anybody know?

[dldance]

as requested I have reposted this item from cbc.ca dated 26 Apr 2005 on this thread.

dd

========

JUNEAU, Alaska – The Yukon and Alaskan governments are teaming up to study the economic and social benefits of a proposed rail line running through Canada and Alaska.

Officials announced Monday the signing of a memorandum of understanding to launch the year-long study, expected to begin in May.

The railway would link Alaska, the Yukon and northern British Columbia, and then run down into the contiguous United States.

The two governments have agreed to establi***he Alaska-Canada Rail Advisory Committee, comprising members from both jurisdictions. The study is expected to cost $5 million US.

[chateauricher]

Since an Alaskan railway will probably benefit the US more (economically and militarily), why not have them pay 2/3 of the construction costs ? Just tell Bu***hat it can be used to bring all that ANWAR oil south. H*ll ! Hearing that, he'd probably use more of his daddy's friends' money to build it.

PS : I updated my profile to include a signature. However, I don't see it in any of my postings. Can others see it ? If so, why can't I ? How can I see it (other than in the "preview" section) ?