QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan Does anybody know if GO transit plans to extend to St.Catharines anytime soon?
QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe Glad to see the Malahat get at least a little civilized. My family and I rode it RT Victoria-Courtenay about 7-8 years ago. Despite the great scenery, train was decidedly third world. No advanced notice regarding food or drink. Nothing available on the train or at any of the completely boarded-up stations--not even water or a soft drink machine.
QUOTE: I never understood why they kept the doors locked between the two cars (both were being used). Maybe one of you Canadians knows, eh??
Mark Meyer
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions. FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been." Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
QUOTE: tatans Posted: 26 Mar 2005, 14:17:57 Must agree with Vermont"guy" about the present ' Canadian" : empty stations, tri-weekly, sleeping car rates for millionaires, and "real" people travelling somewhere ,as opposed to strictly a sightseeing adventures. I wanted to travel down east untilI found the price I could have gone to Uzbekistan. Now I guess I was very lucky to have been able to travel years back on the same train in it's heydey, but it's over folks. seems I will have to travel over the border to Rugby and get on a real train.
QUOTE: drephpe Posted: 26 Mar 2005, 18:27:16 Glad to see the Malahat get at least a little civilized. My family and I rode it RT Victoria-Courtenay about 7-8 years ago. Despite the great scenery, train was decidedly third world. No advanced notice regarding food or drink. Nothing available on the train or at any of the completely boarded-up stations--not even water or a soft drink machine. Fortunately, the crew let me and my son (about 11 or 12), along with one other passenger, get off and literally run to a grocery store several blocks away in Courtenay to get sandwiches and some drinks, and they held the train for us to get back. It was obvious they were very familiar with the problem, were gracious to accommodate, and didn't like the situation one bit. At least the truck can get some relief to the pax. I never understood why they kept the doors locked between the two cars (both were being used). Maybe one of you Canadians knows, eh?? In contrast, even though it was tourist, BC Rail's Royal Hudson operation, which we also rode that trip, was outstanding. I'm sure that's missed. Despite VIA, I've never heard anything even resembling bad about The Canadian. Would love to sample it someday, when I become a billionaire so I can afford the fare.
QUOTE: passengerfan Posted: 26 Mar 2005, 20:22:55 I have to bring a little more information on the CN Turbos to this forum. The trains were slow accelerating to sixty but they were fast beyond. the ride was surprisingly comfortable and sideways motion was practically non existant. The crews were excellent and bid this job by seniority and all had whiskers who were assigned to the Turbos. I was fortunate to always ride Turbo club and was always in the first class dome going to Montreeal it was the lead with the engineer and returning from Montreal was always the trailing Turbo dome. Clean quiet and Comfortable was a good description of the Turbos and even though when riding in the Turbo dome you were riding directly above the Pratt & Whitney Turbines they were much quieter than any diesel. And remember as long as one turbine was operating to supply hotel power they could open the clkam shell doors at couple a diesel to the train for power. Its to bad they did not give the turbos more time they were popul;ar with passengers when in service. Personally I liked them better in the CN wjhite with Black and Orange scheme than the VIA yellow with Blue Bic Banana scheme.
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: 26 Mar 2005, 23:46:47[PARTIALLY QUOTED] QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan Does anybody know if GO transit plans to extend to St.Catharines anytime soon? --------------------------------------- Hello, no i haven't heard anything yet. I know being an ex St Catharines boy myself that go service to the peninsula hays been on the public wish list for years. I was kind of hoping that when the falls added the second casino that we might get our wish. .......... we've reverted back to VIA service and have ten trains a day stopping in Brantford weekdays four on holidays and weekends.The service is a bit more expensive than Go but has a better on time record than the Go experiment did.Too bad St Catharines VIA service is all but non existant. .......... Just a thought. I know bring back an LRV version of the NS&T maybe connect to Oakville then Go to TO and beyond. Nah that's just crazy talk. Rob
QUOTE: enr2099 Posted: Today, 01:32:16 [PARTIALLY QUOTED] The snack waggon that meets the train at Nanaimo isn't always there, many times if you ride on the weekend there's no snack truck. I wouldn't say there was no advanced notice on food or drink as it's printed in the timetables, every timetable printed by VIA since they took over the service from CP that there is no food or drink service. I have found though, that it has only been since RailAmerica took over the E&N, that customer service has improved on the passenger train. Not to mention that also since CP no longer does the maintenace of the cars, Herzog maintains the RDC's now, the cars are generally in better shape both inside and out. --------------------------------- QUOTE: I never understood why they kept the doors locked between the two cars (both were being used). Maybe one of you Canadians knows, eh?? -------------------------------- The other car may have been chartered for a tour group but the conductor most of the time leaves the doors unlocked so that he can go back and forth between the cars. Most of the time they are left wide open to allow easy movement between the cars.
QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan Does anybody know if GO transit plans to extend to St.Catharines anytime soon? Hello, no i haven't heard anything yet. I know being an ex St Catharines boy myself that go service to the peninsula hays been on the public wish list for years. I was kind of hoping that when the falls added the second casino that we might get our wish. From my understanding other than the usual gov. foot dragging there were two minor reasons as to why the trains hadn't been added yet.#1 CN had removed a couple of switches near grimsby on the grimby sub so there was not a direct double mainline all the way into St Kitts anymore(and easy remedy} one wonders if it was done just to keep the commutor traffic off the line?#2 The Hamilton go trains aren't full or full train service and since they run up CP to the old TH&B station CN claims it makes it difficult to schedule(sounds some what fishy to me) I suppose money is a consideration as well Go would have to likely buy more locos and rolling stock if it were to be a full service line like their lakeshore service.I;m wondering if crewing is a problem as well,my understanding is that all of go's train crews are CP personel might be a rules issue.I suppose we just need to keep pestering the local MPP's flood their e-mail inboxes and snail mail boxes maybe they'll listen. Of coarse that's likely my rose coloured glasses looking at the situ. again. It's kind of like my Brantford situation before I moved here they experimented with Go service but they had all sorts of issues on the Dundas subs hills so we've reverted back to VIA service and have ten trains a day stopping in Brantford weekdays four on holidays and weekends.The service is a bit more expensive than Go but has a better on time record than the Go experiment did.Too bad St Catharines VIA service is all but non existant. Perhaps if there was better ridership there them getting go into the peninsula might be concidered more seriously. Of coarse someone at VIA and CN need to commit to giving VIA service to your neck of the woods more priority and more trains. Just a thought. I know bring back an LRV version of the NS&T maybe connect to Oakville then Go to TO and beyond. Nah that's just crazy talk. Rob
QUOTE: Originally posted by enr2099 QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe Glad to see the Malahat get at least a little civilized. My family and I rode it RT Victoria-Courtenay about 7-8 years ago. Despite the great scenery, train was decidedly third world. No advanced notice regarding food or drink. Nothing available on the train or at any of the completely boarded-up stations--not even water or a soft drink machine. The snack waggon that meets the train at Nanaimo isn't always there, many times if you ride on the weekend there's no snack truck. I wouldn't say there was no advanced notice on food or drink as it's printed in the timetables, every timetable printed by VIA since they took over the service from CP that there is no food or drink service. I have found though, that it has only been since RailAmerica took over the E&N, that customer service has improved on the passenger train. Not to mention that also since CP no longer does the maintenace of the cars, Herzog maintains the RDC's now, the cars are generally in better shape both inside and out. QUOTE: I never understood why they kept the doors locked between the two cars (both were being used). Maybe one of you Canadians knows, eh?? The other car may have been chartered for a tour group but the conductor most of the time leaves the doors unlocked so that he can go back and forth between the cars. Most of the time they are left wide open to allow easy movement between the cars. .......... Actually, your account of the trip you took with your son sounds like it was an adventure and something many rail fans would envy! From the best of RDC experiences to those that are in the category you described - they still bring back many fond memories. So what's wrong with a quick trip to the "Quick Trip"?
QUOTE: Thanks for the response. As far as the single tracking between Grimsby and Jordon, CN shot themselves in the foot over that one. They have terrible time with meets because everything pretty much runs all at once because when CSX can release CN trains from Frontier Yard and then of course CN MacMillan Yard too. Morning and early afternoon is usually the hot times for that. I think the major issue other than that is the canal. Having the canal is great for anything but the railroad and anything associated with trains particularly during the busy shipping seasons. I always believed that it could be solved if GO ran up Trillium's Canal line between Merriton in St.Catharines to Dain City and travel onto CP Hamilton Sub and head up on the old CASO/ CP line toward Niagara Falls. Then I thought (no that takes to long) so then I thought that if Trillium ran a couple of RDCs (or someone) between St.Catharines station and the casinos, it might work. The GO train for us would run between Aldershot and St.Catharines. VIA is great but they don't run on great times. I could take a train between St.Catharines in the Morning, get off at Aldershot, take 73 I believe to London but when I get back from London to Aldershot, 95 has long gone. There isn't a night train/s anymore which is really dumb. There isn't any Toronto bound train in the afternoon either. If I want to go to Toronto by train, I have to wait for Amtrak to come at 6:30pm if he comes at all often getting held in customs for an eternity. No wonder ridership is stagnent. However taking the train involving the Dundas and Kingston Subdivisions, you have no problems at all. Even though Niagara Falls is a big tourist place and St.Catharines has tons of folks that work in Oakville and Toronto and we are supposed to be apart of the Windsor Corridor, we get squat for rail service. Go figure.
QUOTE: drephpe Posted: 27 Mar 2005, 15:10:00 [PARTIALLY QUOTED]......... Actually, your account of the trip you took with your son sounds like it was an adventure and something many rail fans would envy! From the best of RDC experiences to those that are in the category you described - they still bring back many fond memories. So what's wrong with a quick trip to the "Quick Trip"? ---------------------------------------- Would have loved to have had a TT to look at. Didn't have one, and the VIA agent at Vancouver where I bought the tickets apparently didn't think it was necessary to tell us there wasn't any liquid on board or any facilities at any of the stations where we could get some. Had we known, we would have packed a lunch and drinks. ---------------------------------------- As to being an adventure-- it would have been, except I also had my wife and 8-9 year old daughter on board, and they aren't particularly adventurous in that sense. Try dealing with a thirsty, hungry little child all day. ---------------------------------------- Sort of like what flying has become........ Glad it's gotten better--that run is made for tourism
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: Today, 03:40:22 1. None of us who remember the CN passenger revival about 1965-1970 or the really great das of USA passenger railroading arond 1950 are really happy with either Amtrak or VIA, including the Canadian. But we are happy to have what is available as better than nothing, and people who had ridden the CZ in its best days do tell me the present Canadian is the nearest thing on wheels to it. 2. If you an cobtain complete photographs of the Montreal Central Station when it opened and all during the steam days, you'll find the catenary. All trains running north through the tunnel used box-cab locomotives except the suburban trains which were multiple-unit and still are. However, it is possible that in the last ten years, the station has been remodeled placing the mu suburban Deux Montaine trains (spelling?) in their own isolated station, since their operation is now subsidized by the city and fares are interchangeable with the subway system. This might explain why you don't see catenary any more. When I first visited Montreal, most Central Station platform tracks had catenary. But later only two tracks used by the suburban trains. Diesels did begin running throught the tunnel pretty early/ And some of the box cabs were retained to run suburban trains with old cleristory roof steel cars as suburban business grew and maintenance on the orginial mu equipment required a better spares-to-operating ratio. I understand they now have new mu's.
QUOTE: wrwatkins Posted: Today, 10:55:41 An earlier submission by CP2816 (excuse the abbrevation) mentioned Nicolas Morant's beautiful book on the CP. I am a proud owner of the book in addition to his companion volume "Morants Canada" (think I have the title correct) First came across the book in the Entree Gold lounge at the Palliser Hotel in Calgary. From that second on it was a must have!. I have traveled on the back road between Banff and Lake Louise trying to find Morants Curve. Unfortunately a rock slide and its repair have taken out the parking area, so you cannot stop and look there. A recent issue of TRAINS had a great fold out advertising tGeneral Electrics new locomotive on the curve. Not quite the same vantage point as Morant, but still a great photo. I would love to get a copy of Morant's photo of the Canadian at "his" curve, but have heard that the negative is worn out and no more copies can be made. Does anyone know where a copy can be obtained?
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted: Today, 16:12:47 Dave states: "Concour wholeheartedly with your paragraph 1 commentary. We will soon see the end of Amtrak for many of its segments in the U.S. - Oct 1st isn't that far off. Hopefully, VIA Rail will continue on - it isn't what many want it to be - but it sure beats having nothing, as in zip, zero and zilch!"
QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain I would like to learn more about Montreal's commuter rail system. Is all or most of it still electrified? Is most of the Montreal metropolitan area served by these trains? Is the service extensive and well run? Does it connect well with VIA, Amtrak, other transport modes? Thanks for info.
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper But where at Central Station are the Deus Montaines trains? I used to see catenary over tracks in Central Station. Is the catenary still over two tracks used by the Deus Monataines trains, or has their platform been relocated away from the VIA trains?
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted 27 Mar 2005 11:39:47 [PARTIALLY QUOTED] Tom, I do appreciate your point of view with the Canadian. My pointing out its shortcomings is just something that I think needs to be brought to light if we're discussing all aspects of Canadian passenger trains. I've personally lined up travel on the Canadian for several groups of friends that want a unique travel experience, and they've all loved it, as have I ............. One last comment, though, just to put the utility of service offered by today's "Canadian" in its proper context: When you say, "I should add that the reason coaches are included in the consist for VIA Rail's "Canadian" is precisely for those who are making a journey between stops along the route. Those are the folks you will be observing getting on and off at the lesser known stations in the Provinces - not all nor always, but most of the time," this needs to be clarified. In each issue of the Canadian railroad magazine "Branchline" there is a "selection of passenger consists." To be accurate, in the winter, your term "coaches" should be replaced with "coach". Yes, that's right. One coach for a train operating from Toronto to Vancouver with, I believe, 62 seats. Of course, the same train can have four to eight sleeping cars so I'm not suggesting the there is no one on the train. Still, when one compares (during this season) 62 seats three times a week being offered through Melville, Saskatchewan to the 225 or so daily seats offered by Amtrak through Williston, North Dakota, it does show that indeed these are two vastly different services.
QUOTE: VerMontananPosted: 28 Mar 2005, 16:12:47 [PARTIALLY QUOTED] Tom (Siberianmo) states (in reply to Dave): "Concour wholeheartedly with your paragraph 1 commentary. We will soon see the end of Amtrak for many of its segments in the U.S. - Oct 1st isn't that far off. Hopefully, VIA Rail will continue on - it isn't what many want it to be - but it sure beats having nothing, as in zip, zero and zilch!" ...........In summary, my point is that when the Canadian is similarly threatened, where is the support for the train going to come from and are Canadians going to care what the tourists think? At this point, I believe the shortcomings will overwhelm the "experience" of the classic Budd-built equipment, and the strong local support that is currently being displayed along many Amtrak routes today for that service will not be there for the Canadian, a train that local people do not and for many can not use.
QUOTE: DaveKlepper Posted 28 Mar 2005, 15:12:23 I am still hoping that Amtrak's present route structure will be preserved. Of course that is a far cry from what is really required. But do you understand (sorry this isn't Canada, but the thought might be applicable some day) that Mineta would compromise safety by having a Federal Government rebuilding of the NEC while Amtrak controls operations? The rebuilding under traffic of Penn Sta. and the NE Corridor electrification extension under traffic were safe because one authority made decisions on both construction and operation. You split the two and you have a real potential for disaster, as did occure as you know in Paddington Station London. You don't save money by adding another and redundant bureracracy!
QUOTE: andrewjonathonPosted: Today, 00:20:06 I have just been reading the thread from the last couple of days and found the discussions to be very interesting. Regarding the service levels on the VIA's Malahat, one needs to keep in the mind the reason the train continues to exist is somewhat controversial and may affect the service offered. VIA planned to discontinued service on this line along with the other gut wrenching cuts VIA made in 1990. However, the provision of train service on Vancouver Island was part of the confederation agreement BC made with the Canadian government in 1870 when it joined Canada and as a result the courts forced VIA to abandon plans to discontinue the Malahat service. While VIA can be required to provide the service, I wonder if it affects the level of service they are provide. In regards to the discussion about VIA's Canadian and it continued existence, I would make a couple of notes. I think that the fact the Canadian is largely a tourist train will ultimately help to ensure its operation continues in the years to come. It has been primarily a tourist train for many years. plays in the western economy. Even at the time of the 1990 VIA cuts, the arguments made for keeping the Canadian were largely based on its value to tourism. (VIA even operates an office in Japan). Due its value as a tourist train, I believe that it will live outlive the Budd passenger cars when that day eventually comes. The second reason I believe the Canadian will continue to be supported by the Canadian publie is role the railway played in Canada's creation. Although the Canadian itself doesn't go back that far it continues to be a symbol of the role railways played in creating Canada. Based on the public outcry to the 1990 service cuts, Canadians are proud of that history and want to maintain the historic symbols associated with it. A few years ago VIA rail started to make noise that they wanted to return the Canadian to its original route on the CPR through the Rockies. They were unable to do so due to a contract they had signed with the Canadian Rocky Mountaineer train company. However, I believe that the contract expires in the next few years and I hope VIA will take the opportunity to move the Canadian back to its original route which really has superior scenery and even a stronger tourist potential.
QUOTE: chateauricherPosted: Today, 01:38:20 QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain I would like to learn more about Montreal's commuter rail system. Is all or most of it still electrified? Is most of the Montreal metropolitan area served by these trains? Is the service extensive and well run? Does it connect well with VIA, Amtrak, other transport modes? Thanks for info. Their web site is located at ... http://www.stcum.qc.ca/English/a-somm.htm Montreal's metro (subway) and commuter rail systems connect quite well with each other and with inter-city trains and buses. You can transfer directly from one of the 4 metro lines and two of the 5 of the commuter train lines directly to VIA (and Amtrak service to NYC's Penn Station). Transfers via the metro will get you from the other metro and commuter rail lines to the VIA/Amtrak terminus. You can transfer to inter-city bus service and the airport shuttle directly from 3 of the 4 metro lines and indirectly by a short trip on the metro from the commuter trains.
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: Today, 02:41:56 But where at Central Station are the Deus Montaines trains? I used to see catenary over tracks in Central Station. Is the catenary still over two tracks used by the Deus Monataines trains, or has their platform been relocated away from the VIA trains?[\quuote] chateauricherPosted: Today, 03:56:05 The Deux-Montagnes and the Mont-Saint-Hilaire (a new one to the south shore) lines terminate at Central Station (linked by tunnel to Bonaventure metro station). The two lines have platforms at one end of the station, separate from the VIA trains to keep people from "jumping the turnstiles". As for caternary lines, I can't answer that question as I have not been there in a very long time.[\quote] OnHarry Posted: Today, 04:38:42 Regarding the St Catherines GO service or rather the potential thereof, I suspect the problem in Hamilton is that so much money and effort was expended to restore the old TH&B station in downtown Hamilton that it would be impossible to go via the CN station, even though that would make sense. The TH&B track east of Hamilton has as steep a grade as the CN west of Dundas so that would be an issue, and there is no quick and easy way for the trains to transfer from Hunter Street Station to the CN mainline. As to CN reducing their mainline in the Niagara penninsula I don't think it had anything to do with VIa or GO but rather a penny wise pound foolish attitude on the part of CN's current management. They did the same thing from From Komoka west to Sarnia, removing the second mainline and making it single track with passing sidings, when they put in the CTC, at a time when they said they were getting increased business from intermodal service through the new tunnel at Sarnia. Makes no sense to me if you are going out to get more business that you reduce your capacity to handle it . I have much more to say but have to go to work so will try and post more when I return this afternoon. James (my real name ) James - no doubt you'll be "hearing" from trolleyboy and Junctionfan![tup][:D] Appreciate your contributions![tup][:D] ========================================= Time for me to get about my "chores" - oh the life of a retired sailor! See y'all soon![tup][:D] Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:10 PM CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's Talk! Summary sheet ........ Thought some of you would appreciate 'where we are' with this topic ... some stats to ponder ..... My posts are more of a "moderator," therefore I've not counted them ....... I have tried to place these in nice, neat columns - but cannot seem to get this program to cooperate. So - read them as follows: Member's name/first post/posts to my compilation of Mar 29th. Enjoy![tup][:D] siberianmo 02 Mar 2005 NOT COUNTED tomtrain 02 Mar 2005 xxxx dehusman 02 Mar 2005 x athelney 02 Mar 2005 xxxxx Modelcar 02 Mar 2005 xx daveklepper 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxxxxxx martin.knoepfel 02 Mar 2005 x tatans 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxx morseman 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx lincoln5390 02 Mar 2005 x passengerfan 03 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx trainboyH16-44 03 Mar 2005 x andrewjonathon 03 Mar 2005 xxxxxx egmurphy 05 Mar 2005 x selector 05 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxx gbrewer 07 Mar 2005 x edgarJowsey 08 Mar 2005 x Grinandbearit 08 Mar 2005 xxxxx trolleyboy 11 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxxxxxx Dayliner 12 Mar 2005 xxxxx kevgos 12 Mar 2005 x wrwatkins 14 Mar 2005 xxxxxxx luct 14 Mar 2005 x METRO 15 Mar 2005 x OnHarry 20 Mar 2005 xxx Junctionfan 21 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx Sask_Tinplater 22 Mar 2005 xxx valleytenderfoot 24 Mar 2005 x CANADIANPACIFIC2816 25 Mar 2005 x enr2099 25 Mar 2005 xxx VerMontanan 25 Mar 2005 xxxx drephpe 26 Mar 2005 xx chateauricher 30 Mar 2005 xx Interesting, wouldn't you say? Since there is no particular value to these stats, please let's not anyone get their shorts in a knot over them![tup[[:D] See y'all soon ...... Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo) Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply kevgos Member sinceJanuary 2004 From: Here 21 posts Posted by kevgos on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:17 PM Just thought I'dthrow some of my useless comments in here again, this time on the CP routing of what is now the Canadian... I read somewhere (can't recall where offhand) that the primary reasoning for the rerouting onto CN's track (through Edmonton and Jasper) was primarily that there were several "influental politicians" living along the CP line (Calgary, Regina, etc.) who were said to have made it QUITE clear that they would be glad if they never saw a passenger train again. Secondly, VIA is government, like CN was at the time, so the trackage fees were likely cheaper, if not non-existant, since the government owns all 3 (the CN trains, the CN tracks and VIA). At this point (with CN being privatised, as you Canadians would say) it likely wouldn't matter cost-wise, since VIA is still government, but the railroads are both private. Reply VerMontanan Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: NotIn, TX 617 posts Posted by VerMontanan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:21 PM Siberianmo stated: "Let's dwell a bit on accuracy - the pictures I have from our December 31st, 2002 departure from Toronto en route Vancouver reveals 2 coaches in the consist. The return trip on January 5th, 2003 had 2 coaches as well. I cannot and will not debate the make up of each and every train in winter - but I know what shows up on my pictures and what I saw during our walks from the Park Car forward and return ........ I'm not familiar with the publication "Branchline," but perhaps I should send them my photos." . You are correct, as the dates you cite are during the Christmas/New Year's holiday travel periods, which are some of the busiest of the year. (And only two coaches then?) I would guess that the number of sleepers were increased during this time, too. One coach is standard during the slowest times of the year, and the train can run with as few as four or five sleeping cars. . "Sorry, but I grow weary of the comparison to Amtrak and points in Montana. It's hands down - they ARE two different services - and VIA Rail's is better IN MY OPINION for those wanting to take a rail journey for the pleasure of it all. That's where this all began - the pleasure of it all." . True. To each his own. However, we all can define pleasure in our own way. I derive great pleasure from knowing that passenger trains still can be a lifeline to the communities they serve - even in remote areas of North America. Mark Meyer Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:26 PM What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? Reply trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 3:53 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon I have just been reading the thread from the last couple of days and found the discussions to be very interesting. In regards to the discussion about VIA's Canadian and it continued existence, I would make a couple of notes. I think that the fact the Canadian is largely a tourist train will ultimately help to ensure its operation continues in the years to come. It has been primarily a tourist train for many years. However, Canada (especially British Columbia) is well acutely aware of the role tourism plays in the western economy. Even at the time of the 1990 VIA cuts, the arguments made for keeping the Canadian were largely based on its value to tourism. (VIA even operates an office in Japan). Due its value as a tourist train, I believe that it will live outlive the Budd passenger cars when that day eventually comes. Hello I figured that i'd wade in on the "'Canadian" discussion as well. I know that 3 years ago i atempted to get passage from Toronto to Winnepeg. I was unable to because the train was booked solid not even coach seats available. This was in early June.So tourist or not it is a gold mine for VIA and I would say virtually cut proof. You have alot af Europeans , Americans,Asian et all visitors comming to Canada to speacifically ride it. Hopefully they do eventually get back onto the proper CP trackage that should only increase ridership.And yes as aregular Canadian i would still like to eventually experience the trip as well.junctionfanThat cab ride must have been something,thanks for the Caso update as well.I've always thought myself that the 406 was the road to nowhere i've often wondered why it was built in the first place.Tear it out and put a real transportation system in. Oops I've already ranted down that path. But highspeed literail is the answer for the penninsula I truly beleave that. Perhaps in time once gas gets to a completely unmanageable price spending money on the highspeed electrification will begin to make sence. I know I'll be the first persom in line to fide Niagara Falls to Toronto and all stops in between. Rob Reply trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? In the instance I was looking at round trip for what I wanted TO to Winnipeg would have been $450. Airfare would have been $400 on Air Canada ( I don't like flying so this wasn't a real option for me) I ended up driving St catharines to The Peg two days and $550 worth of gas. Remembering of coarse that at the time gas was .55-.65 cents a litre fot the .81-.87 of today. The Canadian was really the cheapest option. I don't imagine the prices have changed much other than gas to today's numbers. Siberianmo Branchline is published by the Bytown Railway society. www.bytownrailwaysociety.com I beleave. It's a good magazine lots of good railway information on all the small and large operations in Canada. VIA on down. Rob Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:19 PM If you tried to take Jetsgo, the Canadian might have been quicker too[:D] Well at least today. Andrew Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:24 PM For Siberianmo-- Since you love Budd RDC cars as I do you might want to check the current issue of Railway Age. CalTrans has some for sale there. *** Reply Edit VerMontanan Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: NotIn, TX 617 posts Posted by VerMontanan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? . Sounded like a valid question, so I checked it out: For travel tomorrow (March 30, 2005): Jasper to Edmonton, 235 miles, VIA train 2, cheapest fare available is "Comfort Liberty" (coach) at $119.84 Canadian, or $99.04 US. Meanwhile, south of the border: Whitefi***o Havre, 255 miles, Amtrak train 8, cheapest fare available is reserved coach, $32.00 US. A month from now, April 30, the cheapest VIA fare is "Comfort Super" at $90.95 Canadian, or $75.15 US; The fare on April 30 from Whitefi***o Havre remains at $32. As information, Greyhound has three daily trips from Jasper to Edmonton and its one-way fare is $57.83, or $47.75US. I would guess that at this price, there is very little local travel on the Canadian. And, remember, if you wanted to go tomorrow from, say, Valemont to Viking on the Canadian, even though you're lucky enough to have picked one of the three days per week the train runs, you're out of luck, because you didn't decide in time to book within the 48-hour limit required for travel to/from some of the "smaller" stations. It appears that "Comfort Liberty" is the highest, or least-restrictive coach fare, and is all that is available for tomorrow. What is not known is whether the high fare is in place to limit ridership in the limited coach space, or whether the fare is just highest closest to the time of travel, as is usually the case. As for the Empire Builder, there are indeed every day numerous people riding between Whitefish and Shelby and between Havre and Minot. Whether these people could tolerate VIA-like high fares is not known. They don't have the option of alternate bus transportation. Mark Meyer Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:41 PM I remember one of my most memorable trips across Canada was in February 1968 on a trip that that I will never forget. I left Miami on an Air Canada DC-8 for a non-stop flight to Montreal where I grabbed a cab to Central Station and with fifteen minutes to spare boarded the westbound Panoram for Winnipeg and after a lengthy layover continued on to Vancouver on the western Panorama complet with Dome from Winnipeg. In those days the Montreal section and the Toronto section of the Panorama and Super Continental were combined and separated at Capreal in Northern Ontario. The CP Canadian sectiond from Montreal and Toronto were combined or separated at Sudbury. The Panorama was actually a full service train with equipment almost identical to the Super Continental. This included coaches a coach lounge dining car firat class lounge car and sleeping cars almost the identical makeup to the Super Continental. I don't know if CN was trying to get rid of the train or what but as I recall the layover in Winnipeg was about eight hours if one had a through ticket. Believe me Winnipeg in February is no place to be outside the station. I have heard the corner of Portage and Main is one of the coldest in Canada and I will take their word for it. The train west of Winnipeg was more crowded than the Panoram east of Winnipeg had been the Former Milwaukee Super Dome was a great place to relax and enjoy the trip with the lounge on the lower level great to talk with fellow passengers. The Sceneramic Domes as CN called them operated on the Panorama between Winnipeg and Vancouver at the time and on the Super Continental between Edmonton and Vancouver at the time. The CP had already discontinued their secondary transcontinental the Dominion by this time and Montreal CP coach yard had an excess of Park cars and Skyline cars their that had formerly operated in that train. My return from Vancouver that February 1968 was with my new wife on the Canadian to Toronto. Probably the hardest part of that trip was leaving Miami where the temperature was in the high 70's and landing in Montreal in minus temperatures later that same evening. Reply « First«3456789»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
chateauricherPosted: Today, 03:56:05 The Deux-Montagnes and the Mont-Saint-Hilaire (a new one to the south shore) lines terminate at Central Station (linked by tunnel to Bonaventure metro station). The two lines have platforms at one end of the station, separate from the VIA trains to keep people from "jumping the turnstiles". As for caternary lines, I can't answer that question as I have not been there in a very long time.[\quote] OnHarry Posted: Today, 04:38:42 Regarding the St Catherines GO service or rather the potential thereof, I suspect the problem in Hamilton is that so much money and effort was expended to restore the old TH&B station in downtown Hamilton that it would be impossible to go via the CN station, even though that would make sense. The TH&B track east of Hamilton has as steep a grade as the CN west of Dundas so that would be an issue, and there is no quick and easy way for the trains to transfer from Hunter Street Station to the CN mainline. As to CN reducing their mainline in the Niagara penninsula I don't think it had anything to do with VIa or GO but rather a penny wise pound foolish attitude on the part of CN's current management. They did the same thing from From Komoka west to Sarnia, removing the second mainline and making it single track with passing sidings, when they put in the CTC, at a time when they said they were getting increased business from intermodal service through the new tunnel at Sarnia. Makes no sense to me if you are going out to get more business that you reduce your capacity to handle it . I have much more to say but have to go to work so will try and post more when I return this afternoon. James (my real name ) James - no doubt you'll be "hearing" from trolleyboy and Junctionfan![tup][:D] Appreciate your contributions![tup][:D] ========================================= Time for me to get about my "chores" - oh the life of a retired sailor! See y'all soon![tup][:D] Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply siberianmo Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA 7,214 posts Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:10 PM CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's Talk! Summary sheet ........ Thought some of you would appreciate 'where we are' with this topic ... some stats to ponder ..... My posts are more of a "moderator," therefore I've not counted them ....... I have tried to place these in nice, neat columns - but cannot seem to get this program to cooperate. So - read them as follows: Member's name/first post/posts to my compilation of Mar 29th. Enjoy![tup][:D] siberianmo 02 Mar 2005 NOT COUNTED tomtrain 02 Mar 2005 xxxx dehusman 02 Mar 2005 x athelney 02 Mar 2005 xxxxx Modelcar 02 Mar 2005 xx daveklepper 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxxxxxx martin.knoepfel 02 Mar 2005 x tatans 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxx morseman 02 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx lincoln5390 02 Mar 2005 x passengerfan 03 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx trainboyH16-44 03 Mar 2005 x andrewjonathon 03 Mar 2005 xxxxxx egmurphy 05 Mar 2005 x selector 05 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxx gbrewer 07 Mar 2005 x edgarJowsey 08 Mar 2005 x Grinandbearit 08 Mar 2005 xxxxx trolleyboy 11 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxxxxxx Dayliner 12 Mar 2005 xxxxx kevgos 12 Mar 2005 x wrwatkins 14 Mar 2005 xxxxxxx luct 14 Mar 2005 x METRO 15 Mar 2005 x OnHarry 20 Mar 2005 xxx Junctionfan 21 Mar 2005 xxxxxxxxx Sask_Tinplater 22 Mar 2005 xxx valleytenderfoot 24 Mar 2005 x CANADIANPACIFIC2816 25 Mar 2005 x enr2099 25 Mar 2005 xxx VerMontanan 25 Mar 2005 xxxx drephpe 26 Mar 2005 xx chateauricher 30 Mar 2005 xx Interesting, wouldn't you say? Since there is no particular value to these stats, please let's not anyone get their shorts in a knot over them![tup[[:D] See y'all soon ...... Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo) Happy Railroading! Siberianmo Reply kevgos Member sinceJanuary 2004 From: Here 21 posts Posted by kevgos on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:17 PM Just thought I'dthrow some of my useless comments in here again, this time on the CP routing of what is now the Canadian... I read somewhere (can't recall where offhand) that the primary reasoning for the rerouting onto CN's track (through Edmonton and Jasper) was primarily that there were several "influental politicians" living along the CP line (Calgary, Regina, etc.) who were said to have made it QUITE clear that they would be glad if they never saw a passenger train again. Secondly, VIA is government, like CN was at the time, so the trackage fees were likely cheaper, if not non-existant, since the government owns all 3 (the CN trains, the CN tracks and VIA). At this point (with CN being privatised, as you Canadians would say) it likely wouldn't matter cost-wise, since VIA is still government, but the railroads are both private. Reply VerMontanan Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: NotIn, TX 617 posts Posted by VerMontanan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:21 PM Siberianmo stated: "Let's dwell a bit on accuracy - the pictures I have from our December 31st, 2002 departure from Toronto en route Vancouver reveals 2 coaches in the consist. The return trip on January 5th, 2003 had 2 coaches as well. I cannot and will not debate the make up of each and every train in winter - but I know what shows up on my pictures and what I saw during our walks from the Park Car forward and return ........ I'm not familiar with the publication "Branchline," but perhaps I should send them my photos." . You are correct, as the dates you cite are during the Christmas/New Year's holiday travel periods, which are some of the busiest of the year. (And only two coaches then?) I would guess that the number of sleepers were increased during this time, too. One coach is standard during the slowest times of the year, and the train can run with as few as four or five sleeping cars. . "Sorry, but I grow weary of the comparison to Amtrak and points in Montana. It's hands down - they ARE two different services - and VIA Rail's is better IN MY OPINION for those wanting to take a rail journey for the pleasure of it all. That's where this all began - the pleasure of it all." . True. To each his own. However, we all can define pleasure in our own way. I derive great pleasure from knowing that passenger trains still can be a lifeline to the communities they serve - even in remote areas of North America. Mark Meyer Reply daveklepper Member sinceJune 2002 20,096 posts Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 2:26 PM What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? Reply trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 3:53 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon I have just been reading the thread from the last couple of days and found the discussions to be very interesting. In regards to the discussion about VIA's Canadian and it continued existence, I would make a couple of notes. I think that the fact the Canadian is largely a tourist train will ultimately help to ensure its operation continues in the years to come. It has been primarily a tourist train for many years. However, Canada (especially British Columbia) is well acutely aware of the role tourism plays in the western economy. Even at the time of the 1990 VIA cuts, the arguments made for keeping the Canadian were largely based on its value to tourism. (VIA even operates an office in Japan). Due its value as a tourist train, I believe that it will live outlive the Budd passenger cars when that day eventually comes. Hello I figured that i'd wade in on the "'Canadian" discussion as well. I know that 3 years ago i atempted to get passage from Toronto to Winnepeg. I was unable to because the train was booked solid not even coach seats available. This was in early June.So tourist or not it is a gold mine for VIA and I would say virtually cut proof. You have alot af Europeans , Americans,Asian et all visitors comming to Canada to speacifically ride it. Hopefully they do eventually get back onto the proper CP trackage that should only increase ridership.And yes as aregular Canadian i would still like to eventually experience the trip as well.junctionfanThat cab ride must have been something,thanks for the Caso update as well.I've always thought myself that the 406 was the road to nowhere i've often wondered why it was built in the first place.Tear it out and put a real transportation system in. Oops I've already ranted down that path. But highspeed literail is the answer for the penninsula I truly beleave that. Perhaps in time once gas gets to a completely unmanageable price spending money on the highspeed electrification will begin to make sence. I know I'll be the first persom in line to fide Niagara Falls to Toronto and all stops in between. Rob Reply trolleyboy Member sinceMay 2014 3,727 posts Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:08 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? In the instance I was looking at round trip for what I wanted TO to Winnipeg would have been $450. Airfare would have been $400 on Air Canada ( I don't like flying so this wasn't a real option for me) I ended up driving St catharines to The Peg two days and $550 worth of gas. Remembering of coarse that at the time gas was .55-.65 cents a litre fot the .81-.87 of today. The Canadian was really the cheapest option. I don't imagine the prices have changed much other than gas to today's numbers. Siberianmo Branchline is published by the Bytown Railway society. www.bytownrailwaysociety.com I beleave. It's a good magazine lots of good railway information on all the small and large operations in Canada. VIA on down. Rob Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:19 PM If you tried to take Jetsgo, the Canadian might have been quicker too[:D] Well at least today. Andrew Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:24 PM For Siberianmo-- Since you love Budd RDC cars as I do you might want to check the current issue of Railway Age. CalTrans has some for sale there. *** Reply Edit VerMontanan Member sinceSeptember 2003 From: NotIn, TX 617 posts Posted by VerMontanan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 4:27 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper? . Sounded like a valid question, so I checked it out: For travel tomorrow (March 30, 2005): Jasper to Edmonton, 235 miles, VIA train 2, cheapest fare available is "Comfort Liberty" (coach) at $119.84 Canadian, or $99.04 US. Meanwhile, south of the border: Whitefi***o Havre, 255 miles, Amtrak train 8, cheapest fare available is reserved coach, $32.00 US. A month from now, April 30, the cheapest VIA fare is "Comfort Super" at $90.95 Canadian, or $75.15 US; The fare on April 30 from Whitefi***o Havre remains at $32. As information, Greyhound has three daily trips from Jasper to Edmonton and its one-way fare is $57.83, or $47.75US. I would guess that at this price, there is very little local travel on the Canadian. And, remember, if you wanted to go tomorrow from, say, Valemont to Viking on the Canadian, even though you're lucky enough to have picked one of the three days per week the train runs, you're out of luck, because you didn't decide in time to book within the 48-hour limit required for travel to/from some of the "smaller" stations. It appears that "Comfort Liberty" is the highest, or least-restrictive coach fare, and is all that is available for tomorrow. What is not known is whether the high fare is in place to limit ridership in the limited coach space, or whether the fare is just highest closest to the time of travel, as is usually the case. As for the Empire Builder, there are indeed every day numerous people riding between Whitefish and Shelby and between Havre and Minot. Whether these people could tolerate VIA-like high fares is not known. They don't have the option of alternate bus transportation. Mark Meyer Reply passengerfan Member sinceMarch 2004 From: Central Valley California 2,841 posts Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 6:41 PM I remember one of my most memorable trips across Canada was in February 1968 on a trip that that I will never forget. I left Miami on an Air Canada DC-8 for a non-stop flight to Montreal where I grabbed a cab to Central Station and with fifteen minutes to spare boarded the westbound Panoram for Winnipeg and after a lengthy layover continued on to Vancouver on the western Panorama complet with Dome from Winnipeg. In those days the Montreal section and the Toronto section of the Panorama and Super Continental were combined and separated at Capreal in Northern Ontario. The CP Canadian sectiond from Montreal and Toronto were combined or separated at Sudbury. The Panorama was actually a full service train with equipment almost identical to the Super Continental. This included coaches a coach lounge dining car firat class lounge car and sleeping cars almost the identical makeup to the Super Continental. I don't know if CN was trying to get rid of the train or what but as I recall the layover in Winnipeg was about eight hours if one had a through ticket. Believe me Winnipeg in February is no place to be outside the station. I have heard the corner of Portage and Main is one of the coldest in Canada and I will take their word for it. The train west of Winnipeg was more crowded than the Panoram east of Winnipeg had been the Former Milwaukee Super Dome was a great place to relax and enjoy the trip with the lounge on the lower level great to talk with fellow passengers. The Sceneramic Domes as CN called them operated on the Panorama between Winnipeg and Vancouver at the time and on the Super Continental between Edmonton and Vancouver at the time. The CP had already discontinued their secondary transcontinental the Dominion by this time and Montreal CP coach yard had an excess of Park cars and Skyline cars their that had formerly operated in that train. My return from Vancouver that February 1968 was with my new wife on the Canadian to Toronto. Probably the hardest part of that trip was leaving Miami where the temperature was in the high 70's and landing in Montreal in minus temperatures later that same evening. Reply « First«3456789»Last » Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
OnHarry Posted: Today, 04:38:42 Regarding the St Catherines GO service or rather the potential thereof, I suspect the problem in Hamilton is that so much money and effort was expended to restore the old TH&B station in downtown Hamilton that it would be impossible to go via the CN station, even though that would make sense. The TH&B track east of Hamilton has as steep a grade as the CN west of Dundas so that would be an issue, and there is no quick and easy way for the trains to transfer from Hunter Street Station to the CN mainline. As to CN reducing their mainline in the Niagara penninsula I don't think it had anything to do with VIa or GO but rather a penny wise pound foolish attitude on the part of CN's current management. They did the same thing from From Komoka west to Sarnia, removing the second mainline and making it single track with passing sidings, when they put in the CTC, at a time when they said they were getting increased business from intermodal service through the new tunnel at Sarnia. Makes no sense to me if you are going out to get more business that you reduce your capacity to handle it . I have much more to say but have to go to work so will try and post more when I return this afternoon. James (my real name )
QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon I have just been reading the thread from the last couple of days and found the discussions to be very interesting. In regards to the discussion about VIA's Canadian and it continued existence, I would make a couple of notes. I think that the fact the Canadian is largely a tourist train will ultimately help to ensure its operation continues in the years to come. It has been primarily a tourist train for many years. However, Canada (especially British Columbia) is well acutely aware of the role tourism plays in the western economy. Even at the time of the 1990 VIA cuts, the arguments made for keeping the Canadian were largely based on its value to tourism. (VIA even operates an office in Japan). Due its value as a tourist train, I believe that it will live outlive the Budd passenger cars when that day eventually comes.
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper What about coach fares? Are they reasonable enough so that the average Canadian can use the train for transportation? Even short distances like Edmonton to Jasper?
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