QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions. FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been." Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED ..... Our excursion for this convention was a trip to Niagra Falls. We left Tronto station on a train consisting of 15 GO Transit Bombardier bilevel coaches. No problem boarding in Toronto as the station is quite large. ..... Niagra Falls has a small country style station with short platforms. Only 4 coaches could be at the platform at one time so the train was jogged four coaches at a time until everyone was off. We were on the last set of coaches to be unloaded. When I stepped off the train I looked down the track towards the engine. The engine and the first two coaches were across the international bridge and in the United States. Do not know what the customs boys did with this partial international crossing. The return was the same, only in reverse.
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED Allow me to tell another story of an international trip associated with an APTA convention. .....The trip this time was from Seattle to Vancouver BC using Sounder equipment. The ride was along the Puget Sound most of the way with the rails at water edge. ..... Scenery was terrific. ..... The host asked all non US or Canadian passengers to go to the head coach as they had a more thorough customs inspection. Canadian customs officials boarded in Blaine and went through the train checking documents. I have always found Canadian customs oficials being very courteous. You do not want to tell them that you are a consultant as this entails a 45 minute question period in the back room at the entry airport. When we arrived at the outskirts of Vancouver the train went about 10 MPH until we arrived at the station next to the harbor. This is the same station that the Canadian uses. ..... Siberianmo, in case you were wondering about me I had the pleasure of serving on the board of directors for DART for seven years .......
QUOTE: PARTIALL QUOTED ..... Murals from a Great Canadian train quality paperback 9"x10" bilingual 191 pages Author: Ian Thorn Published by Via Rail Canada copublished by Libre Expression Date: 1986 No price marked in book. ..... This book describes all 18 of the Park observation cars and the 18 Canadian artists who were commissioned to paint the murals and maps of the cars Each of the cars were named after a provincial or federal park and the pictures depicted these parks. They were paid $1,400 for their work ..... This book gives a brief note re Budd Co, Zephyr cars & the diference between Zephyr & CP cars. A few sketches of the cars. Beautiful illustrations of the murals & notes on the artists and the constraints put on them as to the size of the murals to fit the cars All in all a great book & I also will be dropping a line to Via Public Relations Dept. to see where I can get a copy for myself.
QUOTE: I've ridden on the GO more times than I could count haha. One of my favourite sights in all of railroading has to be seeing a GO Transit F7ACPU pulling into the station, they were really amazing creatures. Another of my memories of GO is back when they had their F40s or as everyone called them the "screamers" because they had to run so hard to pull a full 10 car consist and keep the HEP going. Standing on the platform you could hear those comming miles away. This Summer I'm going to be taking the Enterprise from Toronto to Montréal. I've heard it's an excellent train and was wondering if anyone's ever had any experience on it that was less than stellar? METRO
QUOTE: Just a short note re the murals of the Canadian. One other problem the restorers had with the murals was they were glued directly onto metal panels which in turn were rivited to the frame of the car. The paintings endured constant vibrations. Eventually this led to the paint cracking along the joints in the metal panels. As mentioned earlied these Budd cars were similar to the Zephyr cars except for the absence of the light at the rear car & I just discovered that the Canadian was equipped with H-couplere which the Zephyr's lacked, Apparently the H couplers were supposed to provide a smoother ride. My wife and I are off now for about a month, Down to Philly to visit our family and I'll be spending sometime visition Amtrak/Septa Main Line . Then we are off to Fort Lauderdale on the Silver Star, Eastern Carribean cruise on the Celebrity Century, Then returning back to Philly on the Silver Meteor. Will let u all know how the trip was soon as we return.
QUOTE: Hey, I just forgot to mention in my last note: Someone was mentioning a while back about the Montreal & Southers Counties Ry. and I Thot you would enjoy the following Back in the forties M&SC terminal was at Youville Square in Montreal. When the train left the terminal it went down one block and that one block was shared with Montreal tramways street car, (Believe it was route 29 Outremont0 and the only route in Montreal with PCC cars. The over heas wire for M&SC & Route 29 was separated by about a foot. M&SC then took a right hand turn will the PC turned left. Apparenntly there was a new driver on the PCC one day & the switch was turned to the right. Of course the driver had to go back and reconnet the car to the electricity & he continued on his way. A M&SC train was right behind & no way was he going to back up. The PCC had to keep going and had toi cross the St.Lawrence River on the Victoria bridge into Longueuil before it could turn back. The only thing that saved to PCC car operator was Youville Square was also end of the line before returning to Outremont and no one was on board................
QUOTE: Hey there siberianmo (and everyone else), Glad to see this thread's still running. I don't get on line very day so apologies for not responding sooner. For those of you who were asking about the E&N "Malahat" dayliner, it is very definitely worth the trip--the last daily rural (or semi-rural) branch-line passenger service in North America, I believe. VIA markets it as sightseeing day-trip, so it can be easily integrated into your vacation if you are planning to spend more than a couple of days on Vancouver Island. The Budds overnight in the old CPR roundhouse in Victoria West (about half a mile west of the station in downtown Victoria, and on the other side of the harbour). They run back to the station to load (used to be about half an hour before departure; don't know whether that is still the case). The passenger crews used to be based in Victoria and would work three days on, three days off--it was a highly-coveted gig: working days, home every evening for supper (not many running trades jobs like that). All E&N crews are now based in Nanaimo, so the crew starts its day in Nanaimo mid-morning, runs up to Courtenay, brings the train back to Victoria, overnights in Victoria then takes the tain back to Nanimo the next morning where a new crew takes over. Usual crew is engineer and conductor--there is no food service on board so there are no food and drink employees. The cars have been recently rebuilt and are really nice to ride in (except I understand 6148 keeps breaking down). Usual consist is one or two cars depending on the season, although I have ridden a three-car tain on the Island. The most spectacular scenery is over the mountain range called the Malahat, just north of Victoria. That section includes two high steel bridges (one of them, at Niagara Canyon, was built in 1884 to carry the CPR's main line across the Fraser River at Cisco; it was relocated to Vancouver Island in 1914), and a short tunnel. The scenery is pleasant, but less spectaular, all along the line, with pastoral views through the Cowichan Valley and again just south of Courtenay, and some running along the beach at Nanoose Bay, which a part of the trip I always enjoy. To ride the whole line is a four and a half hour trip one way, and there is no food service on board, so the non-railfans in your party may want a smaller dose (perhaps a day-trip Victoria-Chemainus and return which would suit the whole family). For those making the whole trip, a catering truck meets the train at Nanaimo both north- and south-bound, so you can at least get a coffee and a sandwich. Quite a few of the old stations are still standing along the line: Duncan, Ladysmith, Nanaimo (check out the "Gents" toilets), Parksville, Qualicum Beach, Courtenay. I guarantee you will fall in love with the E&N once you ride!
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED ..... Tom were looking forward to september as well so hopefully all works out.And we could be coerced into taking a Go trip as well. Rob
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED ....... Where did you pick up the name Siberianmo? Been to that garden spot?
QUOTE: Unfortunately, we can't get there from here - so to speak - without a somewhat exhausting and convoluted travel itinerary. The one and only non-stop we had to Vancouver disappeared with the demise of TWA.
QUOTE: Our last RDC trip was in 1999 (previously discussed on the back pages) from N. Vancouver up to Lilloeet and back. A great fun trip with wonderful meal service at our seats - fantastic scenery - friendly personnel and passengers - just a memory that will remain with us for the rest of our days. I lament the passing of BC Rail and the Cariboo Prospector.
QUOTE: Morseman: Just found more on the Canadian murals, most were saved, all were restored and can be seen at the Canada Science & Technology Museum, there really is quite a story to the historic artifacts.
QUOTE: I am disapointed. I have read through the entire thread over the last few days and no one has as yet mentioned my favourtie Canadian Railway the TH&B. Anyway more on that later. My earliest experience with passenger trains here was seeing my grandfather off with my parents in I believe 1957 or 58. I grew up in Brantford Ontario, and the train did not last too long after that. It was a mixed train I am fairly sure and it started in Stratford and ran down to Paris Jct. on the Drumbo Subdivisoin, then took the main line to Brantford and went onto the Caledonia subdivision to go to Fort Erie. My grandfather lived in Dunnville. This may seem convoluted but it actually followed much of the right of way of the original Buffalo and Lake Huron railway. It was memeorable as I was already bitten by the railway bug, however my dad did not have a car so I could not go and watch trains at the CN station then. The most vivid memory of the day was a passenger train that preceeded the mixed train and it was pulled by a steam engine that took water while in the station. A few years later summer 1962 I believe we took a bus to Hamilton, and went to the TH&B's really spiffy station there. I distinctly remember seeing CP fairbanks morse engines switching the coach yard beside the track after we had boarded. You had to go up a ramp to get to the track level. The crews were all known to me as they took the East Local job to Brantford in the winter and did the passenger run in the summer. They would go to Buffalo in the morning and lay over till the evening and return on the train then. They wore New York Central Uniforms except they had TH&B embroidered in gold wire thread on the lapels. I should add that my dad was a sectionman on the Waterford subdivision, and our whole family was traveling on his pass to Buffalo to spenfd a week with relatives. The trip over was uneventful, I recall there was a mix of different cars both CP and NYC. The trip back though was really neat. We were in the main concourse at Buffalo's Central Station, and my dad was talking to the engineer and fireman when they walked past. I didn't think anything of it at the time. The train was late leaving as there had been a derailment at Black Rock on the lift bridge across a canal, just before the trains went to the high bridge over the Niagara River. We were diverted to Niagara Falls, New York and crossed the suspension bridge there into Niagara Falls Ontario and ran through the Montrose yard and onto Welland where the train rejoined the TH&B's track. My dad suggested we go for a walk and stretch our legs and maybe I could see the engines. I was happy to comply. We were by this time almost three maybe four hours late. Tthe engines to my delight were streamlined New York Central E-7's, something I had never seen before. When we got to the head end the engineer, the late Freddie Groves, looked down and said to Dad all clear. Then I was told by my dad to climb up and see the inside of the cab. This was getting better and better. It was not till I got up there that I realized I and my dad were going to ride to Hamilton in the cab. Freddie ran them for all they were worth hitting ninety miles per hour at times and really the whole trip was a blur. I suppose that strictly speaking that is not a passenger tale but I thought you might like it. I will relate some other stories of CN and CP in another post. thanks for reading.
QUOTE: As I've been following this thread I've been recalling some long-forgotten Canadian train trips. When VIA first came in, they kept most of the existing CN and CP services, running them with existing crews and equipment and on well-established schedules. In the summer of 1979, I spent a lot of time in Montreal, and was able to enjoy a couple of non-corridor CP services that didn't last very long. One day a couple of friends and I decided to go down to Quebec City for some sight-seeing. We knew there was a fairly good Rapido service on the CN line on the south side of the St Lawrence, so we headed down to Central Station to get a morning departure. No trains today, account track maintenance--there would be a bus instead. However, I knew there was an alternate train service to Quebec, on the CP line along the North Shore through Trois Rivieres (it's always good to have a railfan in your traveling party). We hiked the couple of blocks over to Windsor Station and were able to get tickets on the morning dayliner to Quebec. As I remember, the train was nothing fancy, just a couple of RDCs, but it got us to Quebec (Ste-Foy actually), stopping at most of the towns along the way. I remember what impressed me about the trip was seeing snow on the telegraph poles along the ROW--this was in late May. Not a big deal for most Canadians, I'll agree, but for a kid from Victoria BC, where people cut their grass in winter instead of shovelling snow, it was an eye-opener. We came back to Montreal that evening on a Rapido--fast and full, with the bonus of a ride over the great Quebec Bridge, but not as much fun as those Budd cars stopping at every village. Later that summer, I decided to go up to Ottawa, again for a day's sightseeing, but this time solo. I went up on the Rapido, on the route VIA still runs, did the tourist thing, and headed back to the station for a train back to Montreal. Incidentally, this was the day that John Diefenbaker's state funeral had been held in Ottawa (he was a former Canadian Prime Minister), and his body was to be taken home to Saskatchewan by train. I got to the station while they were still loading the funeral train, with an honour guard from the Governor-General's Foot Guards marching up and down the platform in their busbies and red tunics. When that train left for the west, the next train to Montreal was--you guessed it--a CP dayliner. At that time, the CP (VIA really) still ran a daily round trip Ottawa-Montreal over the Labelle sub, on the north shore of the Ottawa River. It went down to Montreal in the morning, and back in the evening. In addition, there was a Sunday-only evening train to Montreal, and this was the service I caught. It was just a single RDC--like I was used to at home on Vancouver Island. We left Ottawa with perhaps only two or three passengers, and I thought it would be a quiet ride. We crossed the river to Hull, then headed east. Once again, we were stopping at every town along the route to let people on, and by the time we rolled into Windsor Station, the car was full. I remember the conductor making all his announcements in French and English, and when we got to Windsor Station, walking past the Budd cars that had just come in with the weekend-only service from Mont-Laurier. That service over the Labelle sub is long gone, and I believe some of the line has now been lifted. Unfortunately, VIA (and the transportation industry in general) has little room for such milk runs any more. It's very hard to get anywhere that isn't a major metropolitan centre these days if you don't have a car. Fifty years ago, the railways could have gotten you just about anywhere in Canada that you would have wanted to go. Sure, it might have taken three days and some of the trains might only have run once a week, but you could have gone from Sherbrooke, Quebec to Bienfait, Saskatchewan withour having to own or rent a car. OK--end of nostalgia rant. That's all for now.
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper I am just thinking about all the times I rode behind Juncionfan's musician-friend's grandfather on the Empire State Express (when I didn't use the NYC Wolverine or the PRR Red Arrow) on NY - Detroit trips, with him being the engineer Buffalo - Detroit on the Michigan Central's Canada Southern tracks. Did the man's grandfather run Hudsons and Niagras or was he strictly during the diesel era? I enjoyed both. Rod the International many times between Chicago and Toronto. When CN started its improvements to passenger service it bought some Nickel Plate club cars and two were regulary used on this train. Somehow, leaving Chicago and going to Canada made me loose some my total control over drinking, and I would usually have more than a few beers or shots of wiskey in the car, most usual behavior for me. Maybe it was the thought of reviving the Nickel Plate passenger service. So I would arrive in Toronto with a bit of a hangover (headache) with the sight of the maroon or bright red streetcars to revive me, since we had lost our Green Hornets and Red Rockets in Chicago (except at the IRM museum in Union). Otherwise, my life was pretty sober. Must have been something special about that train for me. Maybe it was just the thought that I was going to a large city with a fully functioning classic streetcar system.
QUOTE: I have an interesting story I have to tell. I have a music friend who is an elderly gentleman. He like myself loves trains. Much of his family worked for the railroad usually as an engineer. They came from St.Thomas. His grandfather was an engineer for the New York Central and his father for Wabash/ Norfolk Western. His grandfather used to take the Empire Express between Detroit and Buffalo. His father did mostly freight movements between St.Thomas and Fort Erie.
QUOTE: I currently reside in St. Thomas Junction fan. When I was much younger than I am now, one of my favourite trains was the International Limited. I used to ride it often from Brantford to Toronto , and occaionally if I was brave enough, to see it return to Chicago as the last train at night in Brantford, quite often there would be extra cars tacked onto the end and transporting one or two hockey teams. The Maple Leafs used to travel by train to Chicago or Detroit and I suspect to Boston or New York by train. One thing I really liked about the International lilmited was the engines that usually pulled it. They were heavyweight GP-9's equipped for passenger service and with the air tanks over the Dynamic brakes. Apparently these engines were about six trons heavier than a normal GP-9. The reason the air tanks were on the roof was to make room for a water tank underneath for the steam generator. They also were the same configuration as the TH&B's three passenger GP-9's which may have been the real reason I liked them, though the TH&B engines 401-402-and 403 did not have dynamic brakes. My friend and fellow railfan Carl Bury and I rode the last run of the International limited from Brantford to Toronto. It was something like 5 minutes late leaving Brantford and arrived in Toronto four minutes early. There used to be a weird type of service for that train which some others may be able to elaborate on. It would run into Hamilton, then back out to Bayview I believe, to resume it's westward journey, prehaps they picked up sleeping car passengers. I actually experineced that once when I won a contest in Sunday school, and I went with one of the teachers to a Toronto and we rode the train down, and it must have been a milk run as it stopped in Lynden, and Sunnyside as well as every other station between Brantford and Toronto. When we returned I experienced the bit I mentioned where the train went into Hamilton and backed out after. Someone mentioned that there was a lot of choice in where you could go in Canada by train, and I suppose the same was true of the US but we are not discussing that. I have a 1949 Official Guide and it was amzing where you could get to by going to the local station. For example there was a train, a mixed I think, that left Brantford daily and went to Burford and Norwich and eventually Tillsonburg and a connection with the Michigan Central, and back again.
QUOTE: I am just thinking about all the times I rode behind Juncionfan's musician-friend's grandfather on the Empire State Express (when I didn't use the NYC Wolverine or the PRR Red Arrow) on NY - Detroit trips, with him being the engineer Buffalo - Detroit on the Michigan Central's Canada Southern tracks. Did the man's grandfather run Hudsons and Niagras or was he strictly during the diesel era? I enjoyed both. Rod the International many times between Chicago and Toronto. When CN started its improvements to passenger service it bought some Nickel Plate club cars and two were regulary used on this train. Somehow, leaving Chicago and going to Canada made me loose some my total control over drinking, and I would usually have more than a few beers or shots of wiskey in the car, most usual behavior for me. Maybe it was the thought of reviving the Nickel Plate passenger service. So I would arrive in Toronto with a bit of a hangover (headache) with the sight of the maroon or bright red streetcars to revive me, since we had lost our Green Hornets and Red Rockets in Chicago (except at the IRM museum in Union). Otherwise, my life was pretty sober. Must have been something special about that train for me. Maybe it was just the thought that I was going to a large city with a fully functioning classic streetcar system.
QUOTE: Not sure if anyone has mentioned it in previous posts - but can we include the West Coast Express commuter service from Mission to Vancouver over CP ( dare I mention at the risk of being " sent to Coventry" ) -- freight tracks!!!. Although this is not heritage equipment - being quite new - it still is a Canadian passenger service ..It does run weekdays & on special occasions .
QUOTE: Dayliner's comments on the Malahat brought a tear to my eye. I had previously posted about our trip on that train. It was vintage 1950s Budd. The toilets were the line of sight to the rails vintage. That would not fly in most places today. The only sad thing was that the engineer kept the curtain on the window between the coach and cab pulled throughout the trip. When vibration would cause it to raise he would immediately pull it down. We did get coffee and a sandwich in Nanimo. That is an intereresting town. On a previous trip we stayed at a B&B on the shore of Lake Nanimo on our way to Tofino on the west coast. Very enjoyable. I hope that VIA does not drop the Malahat at is is a true national gem! In my 64 years I have ridden on many defunct lines (abandoned). These include the Pennsylvania line between Baltimore and Harrisburg, B&O between Clarksburg and Parkersburg WV, and the Pennsy between Wellsburg and Wheeling WV. Also rode in a highrail car on several abandoned lines that DART bought before they were rebuilt for light rail service. Also rode from Pittsburgh to Saint Lewis on the Pennsy before the sold or scrapped most of it under Conrail. Sadly I was born a few years to late to ride on FECs line to Key West. The abandoned lines might make a good thread some time. Siberianmo-this is an interesting thread. Hope it keeps going for a long time. By the way how did you get your handle "Siberianmo"? Have you wintered there? ***
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