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CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

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  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 11:50 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!




====================================================
Good morning all! The gremlins are at work this fine day - they "ate" my first submission - argghhhh [censored][banghead][censored][banghead]

If at first you don't succeed ........

wrwatkins
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED

..... Our excursion for this convention was a trip to Niagra Falls. We left Tronto station on a train consisting of 15 GO Transit Bombardier bilevel coaches. No problem boarding in Toronto as the station is quite large. ..... Niagra Falls has a small country style station with short platforms. Only 4 coaches could be at the platform at one time so the train was jogged four coaches at a time until everyone was off. We were on the last set of coaches to be unloaded. When I stepped off the train I looked down the track towards the engine. The engine and the first two coaches were across the international bridge and in the United States. Do not know what the customs boys did with this partial international crossing. The return was the same, only in reverse.


Looks like a good lead in for a great international "thriller diller" movie! Never did travel aboard those bilevel coaches and don't know why. As often as we've been to Toronto - you'd think a "train nut" would have at least taken the time ......
Well "next time."[tup]

wrwatkins
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED
Allow me to tell another story of an international trip associated with an APTA convention. .....The trip this time was from Seattle to Vancouver BC using Sounder equipment. The ride was along the Puget Sound most of the way with the rails at water edge. ..... Scenery was terrific. .....

The host asked all non US or Canadian passengers to go to the head coach as they had a more thorough customs inspection. Canadian customs officials boarded in Blaine and went through the train checking documents. I have always found Canadian customs oficials being very courteous. You do not want to tell them that you are a consultant as this entails a 45 minute question period in the back room at the entry airport.

When we arrived at the outskirts of Vancouver the train went about 10 MPH until we arrived at the station next to the harbor. This is the same station that the Canadian uses. .....

Siberianmo, in case you were wondering about me I had the pleasure of serving on the board of directors for DART for seven years .......


I've had the pleasure of traveling along Puget Sound south from Seattle to Portland, OR. Wonderful scenery ....... Haven't had the opportunity (yet) to go north to Vancouver from Seattle - one day, yes - one day!

By the way, I'm unfamiliar with "Sounder equipment," please elaborate.

In a life lived some time ago (mine) I had an occasion (or two .....) to visit those Canadian Custom's "back rooms."[:)] Really nothing ominous - but I was engaged in rather repetitive trips between southern California and Vancouver, BC - the badge and credentials in my attache case most times caused the detour![:)] One meets lots of interesting people that way!

The train station in Vancouver, BC that you refer to is the Pacific Central Station, one of my favorites and a great place for not only starting travel, but for picture taking.

Here's a photo you may enjoy - click to enlarge it.



I'd love to communicate with you regarding your DART experiences - how about by e-mail?

Thanx for your contributions![tup][tup]

morseman
QUOTE: PARTIALL QUOTED .....

Murals from a Great Canadian train quality paperback 9"x10" bilingual
191 pages Author: Ian Thorn Published by Via Rail Canada
copublished by Libre Expression Date: 1986 No price marked in book. .....

This book describes all 18 of the Park observation cars and the 18 Canadian
artists who were commissioned to paint the murals and maps of the cars
Each of the cars were named after a provincial or federal park and the
pictures depicted these parks. They were paid $1,400 for their work .....

This book gives a brief note re Budd Co, Zephyr cars & the diference
between Zephyr & CP cars. A few sketches of the cars. Beautiful
illustrations of the murals & notes on the artists and the constraints
put on them as to the size of the murals to fit the cars

All in all a great book & I also will be dropping a line to Via Public Relations
Dept. to see where I can get a copy for myself.


THANX for the info - this is a "must" book for me too! I'll begin my search and should I locate one, I'll let you know. Appreciate your doing the same.{tup][tup][:)]

METRO
QUOTE: I've ridden on the GO more times than I could count haha. One of my favourite sights in all of railroading has to be seeing a GO Transit F7ACPU pulling into the station, they were really amazing creatures. Another of my memories of GO is back when they had their F40s or as everyone called them the "screamers" because they had to run so hard to pull a full 10 car consist and keep the HEP going. Standing on the platform you could hear those comming miles away.

This Summer I'm going to be taking the Enterprise from Toronto to Montréal. I've heard it's an excellent train and was wondering if anyone's ever had any experience on it that was less than stellar?

METRO


[#welcome] METRO! Happy that you've joined us and thanx for the contribution.

By the way, I haven't traveled the "Enterprise" yet - but one of these days ......
Generally when I travel to eastern Canada, I fly up to Toronto and take VIA1 to Montreal where I then connect with the "Ocean" bound for Nova Scotia where friends and family await in Halifax.

Here's a picture you may enjoy taken a couple of years ago from our hotel window in Toronto. Click to enlarge it.



Well, that's it for today ..... gotta get going and it was enjoyable "talking" to all of you!






Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 12:22 PM
Hey siberianmo the go's a neat ride sort of like overgrown subway cars.It's convienient though free parking in their lots and the prices are reasonable.To get the full enjoyment you need to ride on all three levels.The small mid level seats over the trucks I find are the most comfortable(and are usually the first to be grabbed)Pictures I've seen of the sounder would look to me like the same type of cars as go and any of the other bi-level users. Rob
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 3:49 PM
For Siberianmo

My email is dwatkins@demac.com. Would be glad to discuss DART with you.

The Sounder equipment is Bombardier bilevel coaches like the GO Transit set in a recent reply. I think their equipment is a newer vintage than the GO Transit equipment.

DART bought several surplus Bombardier bilevel cars from GO Transit and refurbished them for our Trinity Rail Express commuter service between Dallas and Fort Worth. We also bought 3-4 cab cars new from Bombardier as we do not have a convienant place to Y the train. We also have 13 Budd RDCs that came from the surplus line of VIA in Montreal. We tend to like the Canadian equipment. The RDCs were stripped down to the frame and essentially remanufactured to US/Amtrak specs. The bilevels and cab cars kept the Canadian voltage which is about 40 volts more than the Amtrak standard. Don't quote me but I believe the voltages are 480 and 520. We only use the RDCs as backup service and only run one train set of 3 cars during commute hours. The rest of the service is with the bilevels. They do haul more people. I like the RDCs and am saddened to see them slowly being withdrawn from service. We did not equip them with rest rooms which does create a problem for longer commutes. I can say that these cars were purchased prior to my arrival on the board.

Where did you pick up the name Siberianmo? Been to that garden spot?

Cheers,
*** Watkins
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  • From: CANADA
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Posted by Grinandbearit on Wednesday, March 16, 2005 8:29 PM
The word is that VIA will be dropping the "Enterprise" in the near future. Don't know why but I suspect lack of funding as the reason.
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, March 18, 2005 9:10 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."


Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!



================================

Good morning all! Well, I see that there were ZERO posts yesterday, March 17th. Hmmmmmm guess the "wearin' o' the green" was the reason![^]

I spent 13 hours and 15 minutes aboard an Amtrak train yesterday with a friend of mine. Since this has nothing to do with Canadian Passenger Railroading, I'll just let it go at that![:D] Long day - still a wee bit tired this morning.

trolleyboy and wrwatkins - Thanx for your contributions. Now that you perked my interests in those bilevel cars - I'm just going to HAVE to ride them!

*** - I appreciate the elaboration regarding DART and the use of the RDC's. I have some photo's of those RDC's in Halifax when they were layed up by VIA Rail due to the discontinuance of the service between Halifax and Yarmouth and north to Sydney. I knew some were sold off to DART and in fact, I was involved in an attempt to "short cycle" a couple of them as they passed through St. Louis. I was heavily involved with a group trying to get light-rail service into the area west of downtown. We have an existing rail right-of-way - in sporadic use by a local freight hauler - nevertheless, we wanted the RDC's for demo purposes to illustrate to the public that passenger service IS a viable alternative to the burning of lots and lots of fuel in our daily commutes by car.
Long, long story - unhappy ending. Case closed.[:(!][oops][#offtopic]

Rob - Perhaps if our plans work out for September, we can take a brief ride on the GO trains. We are eagerly looking forward to a possible journey northward with the two of you and as we progress through time - let's hope it will materialize![tup]

grinandbearit: Sorry - missed your post the first time! Yes - the "Enterprise" may very well suffer the cut because of the budget axe. Seems that Ottawa - a while ago - announced that VIA Rail's operating budget would be slashed. VIA's response included putting some routes on the proverbial block - the "Enterprise" being just one. Hasn't happened yet - but my suggestion is if you want to experience it - do it soon!
==============================================================
Okay - time for MY story about a VIA Rail trip with a and a not-so-happy conclusion.

In December of 2002, my wife and I departed Toronto aboard VIA Rail's "Canadian" bound for Vancovuer. Having made the round trip once before, but in May, we were exicited about the prospects of a winter voyage across most of Canada.

We were able to book the drawing room suite in the Park Car (Glacier Park) and settled into our seats in the dome as the train pulled out of Toronto's Union Station. The day was rather gloomy, a bit of light rain and sleet hitting the windows as we wound our way through and out of the city.

The further north we got, the clearer the skies and by the time we started see evidence of that magnificant Canadian Shield, the skies were blue with some white puffy clouds. Great picture taking with some memorable sights indeed.

Now I could continue this dialogue in the style aforementioned - but then it would just drone on and one - for really, the trip WAS fantastic. The snow amounts were far, far less than what we had hoped for - but then again, those of you living in Canada - especially the mountainous regions, know full well what the drought conditions have been like for quite some time. Nevertheless, we were undaunted in our optimism that the trip would hold true to our high
expectations - and for the most part it did.

On Friday, January 3rd, our train was struck by a rock slide just north of Boston Bar in the Fraser Canyon. Fortunately, this event did not seriously damage the train or harm any people within it. The delay of six hours wound up being a PLUS in that once we resumed our voyage, we got to view some sights that would have otherwise been "voids" to us. For had the train kept to its schedule, we would have passed through that area in darkness. (Same for the eastbound - darkness..........). Saw things that were all new to me (and have been alluded to in my previous posts) - for example, the rock slide 'sheds' that deflect the slides OVER the tracks rather than on to them. Interesting and effective concept indeed. Also the tunnel carved out of the rock - no portals - pretty rugged and functional. Can just imagine the work those people put into building that railroad! Wow.

Now - fast forward to the day of departure from Vancouver, Sunday, January 5th.

Talk had been heard in the "Silver & Blue" waiting area set aside for bedroom passengers at Pacific Central Station, that the "Cruise Ship Virus" had been detected on the train that had arrived from Toronto that morning. The train, was "quarantined" - not the passengers - and another had to be assembled rather quickly for the eastbound "Canadian" that evening (our triain).

Now for those of you who don't know - this particular virus is a real doozy. Once it hits you - expect to be "out of it" for 48 hours, working very well from all 'ends' I might add. It probably is better known as the "Norwalk Virus" to most people who follow these things.

It was said that 15 passengers in the coach portion of the morning train had come down with the virus and they were in very poor shape as some were carried from the train. All of this talk didn't bode well for what we had expected to unfold.

We board the "new" train - deposited our belongings in the drawing room of the Stathcona Park Car and headed up to the dome to take in the sights of the train departing Vancouver. Just a marvelous way to travel - my wife had a complimentary glass of champagne and I had a local brew - and all was well with the world as we left Vancouver behind us.

The next day was a picture taking day indeed. Just to give you one example, check out this photo of Mt. Robson - the tallest mounain in Canada at 12,972 ft/3,953 m. (click to enlarge ......)



That should give you an idea of the great sky very conducive to picture taking (and keeping!).

Fast forward to the next day as the train pulled into Winnipeg. We noticed all kinds of activity alongside the south side of the tracks as we neared the station. TV cameras, reporters, microphones, et al. When we asked our car attendant what was going on - he indicated that he had no idea, so we let it go at that. We arrived at the station to an announcement that if anyone wanted to stretch their legs now would be the time, but that they would NOT be permitted to reboard until further notice. Hmmmmm - we stayed on board.

After about 2 hours of sitting up in the dome,and the train already late for the scheduled departure, we began to ask of the "new" attendant, what was going on. She said there was a "work issue" and that several new crew members refused to board the train. No further elaboration was given.

About 2 hours after that - we heard an announcement that the train would be delayed further pending arrival of Health Canada officials. Hmmmmmmm.

Fast forward to the bottom line:

The virus had stricken a half dozen passengers, one in the bedroom compartment adjacent to ours. We had noticed that all during the trip, the handrails were being constantly wiped by attendants wearing latex gloves and spraying a solution wherever one might be expected to touch ....... That was the only overt indication of preventative measures being taken to safeguard us from this virus. The replacement crew refused to board at Winnipeg until assurances were given that they would not be adversely impacted.

That evening - after the train finally left, a total of 6 hours in delay - we had dinner. Within a half hour of that event, I got sick - and did I ever get sick! I'm an "old guy" and have experienced feeling bad in my life - but I assure you, NEVER quite like this.

The remainder of the trip to Toronto was spent in the toilet - got to know that rascal "up close and personal" or comatose in bed. Awful experience to say the least.

We were met at the station by VIA Rail and Health Canada officials. The latter wanted to take "samples" and the former wanted me to sign something similar to a "release." I provided the sample - but refused the release.

We remined on the train for about 45 minutes after everyone else had departed and then we were "cleared" to go. The VIA Rail official arranged for our baggage to be taken to a taxi - put us in it - picked up the tab (for the cab, that is) and sent us on our way to the hotel we had made reservations with. Stayed at the Renaissance in the Sky Dome.

Fast forward to today: Haven't heard a word about the incident since and the replies to my inquiries regarding exactly what was done with my "samples" and confirmation from VIA and Helath Canada that this was the "Cruise Ship Virus" have NEVER been addressed. I even provided photo copies of the newspaper accounts of the virus aboard the trains (that earlier train I alluded to, and ours) - but it was if the recipients closed their minds to the facts ......[tdn][tdn][tdn])

Case closed.

P.S. Am I angry with VIA Rail over this? NO - absolutely NOT. I love those trains and I enjoy the experience. However, I think ineptitude and rudeness on the part of ANY indiviudal can NEVER be excused. So, I will probably always harbor a feeling of ill will directed toward those who should have:

(1) Informed the passengers on the train of the situation when it became apparent that the virus was indeed detected.

(2) Permitted those of us who were not yet effect, to get off the train in Winnipeg in order to make other travel plans.

(3) Been a bit more helpful to those of us stricken with the illness to include arranging for a doctor to check us out either on the train or at our hotel.

(4) etc. ......
=================================================

Okay - that's it for me. Have a great day and I hope to see a bit more activity today on OUR discussion topic.[tup][tup]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Ontario - Canada
  • 463 posts
Posted by morseman on Friday, March 18, 2005 2:13 PM
Just a short note re the murals of the Canadian.
One other problem the restorers had with the murals was they were glued directly
onto metal panels which in turn were rivited to the frame of the car. The paintings endured
constant vibrations. Eventually this led to the paint cracking along the joints in the
metal panels.

As mentioned earlied these Budd cars were similar to the Zephyr cars except for
the absence of the light at the rear car & I just discovered that the Canadian was
equipped with H-couplere which the Zephyr's lacked, Apparently the H couplers were
supposed to provide a smoother ride.

My wife and I are off now for about a month, Down to Philly to visit our family
and I'll be spending sometime visition Amtrak/Septa Main Line .
Then we are off to Fort Lauderdale on the Silver Star, Eastern Carribean cruise
on the Celebrity Century, Then returning back to Philly on the Silver Meteor.
Will let u all know how the trip was soon as we return.
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Ontario - Canada
  • 463 posts
Posted by morseman on Friday, March 18, 2005 2:35 PM
Hey, I just forgot to mention in my last note:

Someone was mentioning a while back about the Montreal & Southers Counties Ry.
and I Thot you wouldenjoy the following
Back in the forties M&SC terminal was at Youville Square in Montreal.
When the train left the terminal it went down one block and that one block was shared with
Montreal tramways street car, (Believe it was route 29 Outremont0 and the only
route in Montreal with PCC cars. The over heas wire for M&SC & Route 29
was separated by about a foot. M&SC then took a right hand turn will the PC
turned left. Apparenntly there was a new driver on the PCC one day & the switch
was turned to the right. Of course the driver had to go back and reconnet
the car to the electricity & he continued on his way. A M&SC train was right
behind & no way was he going to back up. The PCC had to keep going and
had toi cross the St.Lawrence River on the Victoria bridge into Longueuil
before it could turn back. The only thing that saved to PCC car operator was
Youville Square was also end of the line before returning to Outremont
and no one was on board................
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Posted by Dayliner on Friday, March 18, 2005 11:20 PM
Hey there siberianmo (and everyone else),

Glad to see this thread's still running. I don't get on line very day so apologies for not responding sooner.

For those of you who were asking about the E&N "Malahat" dayliner, it is very definitely worth the trip--the last daily rural (or semi-rural) branch-line passenger service in North America, I believe. VIA markets it as sightseeing day-trip, so it can be easily integrated into your vacation if you are planning to spend more than a couple of days on Vancouver Island. The Budds overnight in the old CPR roundhouse in Victoria West (about half a mile west of the station in downtown Victoria, and on the other side of the harbour). They run back to the station to load (used to be about half an hour before departure; don't know whether that is still the case). The passenger crews used to be based in Victoria and would work three days on, three days off--it was a highly-coveted gig: working days, home every evening for supper (not many running trades jobs like that). All E&N crews are now based in Nanaimo, so the crew starts its day in Nanaimo mid-morning, runs up to Courtenay, brings the train back to Victoria, overnights in Victoria then takes the tain back to Nanimo the next morning where a new crew takes over.

Usual crew is engineer and conductor--there is no food service on board so there are no food and drink employees. The cars have been recently rebuilt and are really nice to ride in (except I understand 6148 keeps breaking down). Usual consist is one or two cars depending on the season, although I have ridden a three-car tain on the Island.

The most spectacular scenery is over the mountain range called the Malahat, just north of Victoria. That section includes two high steel bridges (one of them, at Niagara Canyon, was built in 1884 to carry the CPR's main line across the Fraser River at Cisco; it was relocated to Vancouver Island in 1914), and a short tunnel. The scenery is pleasant, but less spectaular, all along the line, with pastoral views through the Cowichan Valley and again just south of Courtenay, and some running along the beach at Nanoose Bay, which a part of the trip I always enjoy.

To ride the whole line is a four and a half hour trip one way, and there is no food service on board, so the non-railfans in your party may want a smaller dose (perhaps a day-trip Victoria-Chemainus and return which would suit the whole family). For those making the whole trip, a catering truck meets the train at Nanaimo both north- and south-bound, so you can at least get a coffee and a sandwich.

Quite a few of the old stations are still standing along the line: Duncan, Ladysmith, Nanaimo (check out the "Gents" toilets), Parksville, Qualicum Beach, Courtenay.

I guarantee you will fall in love with the E&N once you ride!
  • Member since
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, March 19, 2005 1:11 AM
Hello again.morseman it's intresting to hear you mention the "overhead" situation in Montreal. It was a political thing M&SC was a CN owned line at of coarse MTC ws operated by the city. Neither wanted to share wire because they didn't want to have to pay for the other guyspower or line maintenance. It was always a strange relationship.One could understand the non-sharing if they were different voltages but both ran 600v overhead.It was good for our museum though beacaus ewe didn't have to convert our M&SC car to lower voltage as it is designed for 600v not 15 or 1200v as some other interurbans ran at. All we had to do to 107 was reguage uit's trucks to ttc guage of 4"107\8ths. Tom were looking forward to september as well so hopefully all works out.And we could be coerced into taking a Go trip as well. Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, March 19, 2005 8:35 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."


Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!



==================================================
Good Morning all! While we are not burning up the bits and bytes, we're still communicating about one of my favorite subjects - Canadian Passenger Railroads! Thanx to all .........[tup]

morseman
QUOTE: Just a short note re the murals of the Canadian.
One other problem the restorers had with the murals was they were glued directly onto metal panels which in turn were rivited to the frame of the car. The paintings endured constant vibrations. Eventually this led to the paint cracking along the joints in the metal panels.

As mentioned earlied these Budd cars were similar to the Zephyr cars except for the absence of the light at the rear car & I just discovered that the Canadian was equipped with H-couplere which the Zephyr's lacked, Apparently the H couplers were supposed to provide a smoother ride.

My wife and I are off now for about a month, Down to Philly to visit our family
and I'll be spending sometime visition Amtrak/Septa Main Line . Then we are off to Fort Lauderdale on the Silver Star, Eastern Carribean cruise on the Celebrity Century, Then returning back to Philly on the Silver Meteor.
Will let u all know how the trip was soon as we return.


QUOTE: Hey, I just forgot to mention in my last note:

Someone was mentioning a while back about the Montreal & Southers Counties Ry. and I Thot you would enjoy the following Back in the forties M&SC terminal was at Youville Square in Montreal. When the train left the terminal it went down one block and that one block was shared with Montreal tramways street car, (Believe it was route 29 Outremont0 and the only route in Montreal with PCC cars. The over heas wire for M&SC & Route 29 was separated by about a foot. M&SC then took a right hand turn will the PC turned left. Apparenntly there was a new driver on the PCC one day & the switch
was turned to the right. Of course the driver had to go back and reconnet
the car to the electricity & he continued on his way. A M&SC train was right
behind & no way was he going to back up. The PCC had to keep going and
had toi cross the St.Lawrence River on the Victoria bridge into Longueuil
before it could turn back. The only thing that saved to PCC car operator was
Youville Square was also end of the line before returning to Outremont
and no one was on board................


Well, first - bon voyage! Sounds like a great itinerary and hope you both enjoy yourselves to the fullest.[:D]

One of the benefits derived from participating in a discussion like ours is that there is so much to learn. Sort of like sitting in the Park Car (VIA Rail's Canadian or Ocean or Skeena or Bras d'Or) and listening in on conversations going on around you. I would not have known about the "H" couplers had it not been for your comments. Thanx![tup]

The murals, in their day, must have been something to behold. I have seen several recreations and would really like to obtain the book you mentioned previously.

Interesting account of the M&SC and PCC! Could have been tragic indeed.

Look forward to "hearing" from you again![:)]

Dayliner
QUOTE: Hey there siberianmo (and everyone else),

Glad to see this thread's still running. I don't get on line very day so apologies for not responding sooner.

For those of you who were asking about the E&N "Malahat" dayliner, it is very definitely worth the trip--the last daily rural (or semi-rural) branch-line passenger service in North America, I believe. VIA markets it as sightseeing day-trip, so it can be easily integrated into your vacation if you are planning to spend more than a couple of days on Vancouver Island. The Budds overnight in the old CPR roundhouse in Victoria West (about half a mile west of the station in downtown Victoria, and on the other side of the harbour). They run back to the station to load (used to be about half an hour before departure; don't know whether that is still the case). The passenger crews used to be based in Victoria and would work three days on, three days off--it was a highly-coveted gig: working days, home every evening for supper (not many running trades jobs like that). All E&N crews are now based in Nanaimo, so the crew starts its day in Nanaimo mid-morning, runs up to Courtenay, brings the train back to Victoria, overnights in Victoria then takes the tain back to Nanimo the next morning where a new crew takes over.

Usual crew is engineer and conductor--there is no food service on board so there are no food and drink employees. The cars have been recently rebuilt and are really nice to ride in (except I understand 6148 keeps breaking down). Usual consist is one or two cars depending on the season, although I have ridden a three-car tain on the Island.

The most spectacular scenery is over the mountain range called the Malahat, just north of Victoria. That section includes two high steel bridges (one of them, at Niagara Canyon, was built in 1884 to carry the CPR's main line across the Fraser River at Cisco; it was relocated to Vancouver Island in 1914), and a short tunnel. The scenery is pleasant, but less spectaular, all along the line, with pastoral views through the Cowichan Valley and again just south of Courtenay, and some running along the beach at Nanoose Bay, which a part of the trip I always enjoy.

To ride the whole line is a four and a half hour trip one way, and there is no food service on board, so the non-railfans in your party may want a smaller dose (perhaps a day-trip Victoria-Chemainus and return which would suit the whole family). For those making the whole trip, a catering truck meets the train at Nanaimo both north- and south-bound, so you can at least get a coffee and a sandwich.

Quite a few of the old stations are still standing along the line: Duncan, Ladysmith, Nanaimo (check out the "Gents" toilets), Parksville, Qualicum Beach, Courtenay.

I guarantee you will fall in love with the E&N once you ride!


Dayliner - if I haven't said it somewhere before - let me be the first: [#welcome]

Your description of the "Malahat" RDC's is what some of us have been waiting to read. Makes me want to get going on our trip to Vancouver Island - pronto quick. Unfortunately, we can't get there from here - so to speak - without a somewhat exhausting and convoluted travel itinerary.

When TWA folded their tent - bought out by American Airlines - St. Louis lost an airline "hub." American downsized our terminal's arrivals and departures so much so that most flights these days are connectors - have to change planes here or there in order to get to where you want to go. The one and only non-stop we had to Vancouver disappeared with the demise of TWA.[tdn][#offtopic]

Okay - back on track now. I'm happy to learn that the RDC's are still holding their own - with the exception you noted. They have been extremely durable products and the ghost of Mr. Budd should bear a continuing smile about that!

Our last RDC trip was in 1999 (previously discussed on the back pages) from N. Vancouver up to Lilloeet and back. A great fun trip with wonderful meal service at our seats - fantastic scenery - friendly personnel and passengers - just a memory that will remain with us for the rest of our days. I lament the passing of BC Rail and the Cariboo Prospector.[:(]

trolleyboy
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED ..... Tom were looking forward to september as well so hopefully all works out.And we could be coerced into taking a Go trip as well. Rob


Rob - consider yourself "coerced"![tup]

wrwatkins
QUOTE: PARTIALLY QUOTED ....... Where did you pick up the name Siberianmo? Been to that garden spot?


Siberian is for our first dog - FRED (no, not what the railroads think it means!) and our current dog - JUNEAU - both Siberian Huskies. MO is simply - Missouri, where we reside. The closest I have gotten to Siberia would be the Little Diomede Island in the Bering Sea ......... close enough thank you very much!

By the way, thanx for your e-mail address - I'll be in touch ........
================================================

I'll save my next train story for another day - have to catch up on some chores that somehow are for Saturday's only![:)]

Tom in Chesterfield, MO






Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Dayliner on Saturday, March 19, 2005 12:18 PM
siberianmo,

QUOTE: Unfortunately, we can't get there from here - so to speak - without a somewhat exhausting and convoluted travel itinerary. The one and only non-stop we had to Vancouver disappeared with the demise of TWA.


You may find it's easier getting to Seattle from St Louis--still roughly the same amount of hassle getting to the Island from Seattle as from Vancouver. There are rumours floating around right now that the E&N service may be on the chopping block due to cuts in VIA's budget. Of course, the passenger service has been in perpetual peril for as long as I can remember, so the rumours may be just that. I remember in the 80s, when it seemed that the passenger service might close, I spent a lot of time chasing, photographing, and riding the Budd cars, and I ignored the E&N's freight service, which I assumed would always be around. Now the freight business is almost gone, and the passenger trains are still chugging along. Go figure.

QUOTE: Our last RDC trip was in 1999 (previously discussed on the back pages) from N. Vancouver up to Lilloeet and back. A great fun trip with wonderful meal service at our seats - fantastic scenery - friendly personnel and passengers - just a memory that will remain with us for the rest of our days. I lament the passing of BC Rail and the Cariboo Prospector.


I agree--the BC Rail passenger service was tops for scenery and service. I rode the whole length of the line in 1995, and have ridden both the Squamish excursion and the late, lamented dinner train more recently. I know some of the guys who used to work those trains and they are the best: top-notch railroaders and really good guys who will give you the shirt off their back, on or off the trains.

As my friend athelney noted in an earlier posting on this thread, we have a couple of the ex-BCR Budd cars at the West Coast Railway Heritage Park in Squamish, and plan to restore them. So, although the BCR service is no more, it may be possible to ride the equipment again in the future. As you can see from my handle, I am a big fan of RDCs, so that prospect certainly turns my crank.
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Posted by tatans on Saturday, March 19, 2005 5:51 PM
Siberianmo: Mt. Robson 12,972' (highest in the Rockies) Mt. Logan (Yukon) 19,850' 2nd highest in North America.
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Posted by tatans on Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:05 PM
Just another note on the "Canadian" murals , some of the murals were painted by surviving members of the Group of Seven, my story was none of them survived although they would have been a great contribution to Canada's art history, I'm sorry, I may have contributed to the odd drink spilled on the paintings during one of many trips to the coast (Vancouver) those were the days eh! Just a bunch of hosers having a few laughs, seems none of us ever did look out the windows either.
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Posted by morseman on Saturday, March 19, 2005 6:59 PM
800pm and I'm still around. Car is all packed and leaving in am
& thought I'd just check see whats new on the forum.

Didn't realizer my mention of the murals on The Canadian
would draw such interest. I thot the restored murals were
replaced but now just read over part of my borrowed book
thst s few of them went missing & all the ones that were
restored rest in the CPR archives.
  • Member since
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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:22 AM
Good morning - a fine, fine morning here in mid-continent U.S.A. - blue skies and a great way to begin the celebration of Palm Sunday, for those who do.

Not much in the way of contributions thus far today - but, weekends are for things other than keyboarding. So, let me simply say - [#welcome] to tatans and another Bon Voyage to morseman!

Oh yes - someone sent me an e-mail, apparently a bit "up tight" over my "BYOB" that appears in the subject line. All I can say is, "Get a life!" It can mean whatever one desires it to mean. Just fun - simply that and no more.[wow]

I expect we'll have a few more "stories" to sort through in the beginning of the week - and I've noticed we've turned another page on this topic! So, all's not lost ........

See ya![tup]

Tom in Chesterfield, MO (Siberianmo)


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by tatans on Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:46 PM
Morseman: Just found more on the Canadian murals, most were saved, all were restored and can be seen at the Canada Science & Technology Museum, there really is quite a story to the historic artifacts.
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Posted by OnHarry on Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:48 PM
I am disapointed. I have read through the entire thread over the last few days and no one has as yet mentioned my favourtie Canadian Railway the TH&B. Anyway more on that later.

My earliest experience with passenger trains here was seeing my grandfather off with my parents in I believe 1957 or 58. I grew up in Brantford Ontario, and the train did not last too long after that. It was a mixed train I am fairly sure and it started in Stratford and ran down to Paris Jct. on the Drumbo Subdivisoin, then took the main line to Brantford and went onto the Caledonia subdivision to go to Fort Erie. My grandfather lived in Dunnville. This may seem convoluted but it actually followed much of the right of way of the original Buffalo and Lake Huron railway.

It was memeorable as I was already bitten by the railway bug, however my dad did not have a car so I could not go and watch trains at the CN station then. The most vivid memory of the day was a passenger train that preceeded the mixed train and it was pulled by a steam engine that took water while in the station.

A few years later summer 1962 I believe we took a bus to Hamilton, and went to the TH&B's really spiffy station there. I distinctly remember seeing CP fairbanks morse engines switching the coach yard beside the track after we had boarded. You had to go up a ramp to get to the track level. The crews were all known to me as they took the East Local job to Brantford in the winter and did the passenger run in the summer. They would go to Buffalo in the morning and lay over till the evening and return on the train then. They wore New York Central Uniforms except they had TH&B embroidered in gold wire thread on the lapels.

I should add that my dad was a sectionman on the Waterford subdivision, and our whole family was traveling on his pass to Buffalo to spenfd a week with relatives.

The trip over was uneventful, I recall there was a mix of different cars both CP and NYC. The trip back though was really neat. We were in the main concourse at Buffalo's Central Station, and my dad was talking to the engineer and fireman when they walked past. I didn't think anything of it at the time. The train was late leaving as there had been a derailment at Black Rock on the lift bridge across a canal, just before the trains went to the high bridge over the Niagara River. We were diverted to Niagara Falls, New York and crossed the suspension bridge there into Niagara Falls Ontario and ran through the Montrose yard and onto Welland where the train rejoined the TH&B's track. My dad suggested we go for a walk and stretch our legs and maybe I could see the engines. I was happy to comply. We were by this time almost three maybe four hours late.

Tthe engines to my delight were streamlined New York Central E-7's, something I had never seen before. When we got to the head end the engineer, the late Freddie Groves, looked down and said to Dad all clear. Then I was told by my dad to climb up and see the inside of the cab. This was getting better and better. It was not till I got up there that I realized I and my dad were going to ride to Hamilton in the cab. Freddie ran them for all they were worth hitting ninety miles per hour at times and really the whole trip was a blur. I suppose that strictly speaking that is not a passenger tale but I thought you might like it.

I will relate some other stories of CN and CP in another post. thanks for reading.
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Posted by Dayliner on Monday, March 21, 2005 1:06 AM
As I've been following this thread I've been recalling some long-forgotten Canadian train trips. When VIA first came in, they kept most of the existing CN and CP services, running them with existing crews and equipment and on well-established schedules. In the summer of 1979, I spent a lot of time in Montreal, and was able to enjoy a couple of non-corridor CP services that didn't last very long.

One day a couple of friends and I decided to go down to Quebec City for some sight-seeing. We knew there was a fairly good Rapido service on the CN line on the south side of the St Lawrence, so we headed down to Central Station to get a morning departure. No trains today, account track maintenance--there would be a bus instead. However, I knew there was an alternate train service to Quebec, on the CP line along the North Shore through Trois Rivieres (it's always good to have a railfan in your traveling party). We hiked the couple of blocks over to Windsor Station and were able to get tickets on the morning dayliner to Quebec. As I remember, the train was nothing fancy, just a couple of RDCs, but it got us to Quebec (Ste-Foy actually), stopping at most of the towns along the way. I remember what impressed me about the trip was seeing snow on the telegraph poles along the ROW--this was in late May. Not a big deal for most Canadians, I'll agree, but for a kid from Victoria BC, where people cut their grass in winter instead of shovelling snow, it was an eye-opener. We came back to Montreal that evening on a Rapido--fast and full, with the bonus of a ride over the great Quebec Bridge, but not as much fun as those Budd cars stopping at every village.

Later that summer, I decided to go up to Ottawa, again for a day's sightseeing, but this time solo. I went up on the Rapido, on the route VIA still runs, did the tourist thing, and headed back to the station for a train back to Montreal. Incidentally, this was the day that John Diefenbaker's state funeral had been held in Ottawa (he was a former Canadian Prime Minister), and his body was to be taken home to Saskatchewan by train. I got to the station while they were still loading the funeral train, with an honour guard from the Governor-General's Foot Guards marching up and down the platform in their busbies and red tunics. When that train left for the west, the next train to Montreal was--you guessed it--a CP dayliner. At that time, the CP (VIA really) still ran a daily round trip Ottawa-Montreal over the Labelle sub, on the north shore of the Ottawa River. It went down to Montreal in the morning, and back in the evening. In addition, there was a Sunday-only evening train to Montreal, and this was the service I caught. It was just a single RDC--like I was used to at home on Vancouver Island. We left Ottawa with perhaps only two or three passengers, and I thought it would be a quiet ride. We crossed the river to Hull, then headed east. Once again, we were stopping at every town along the route to let people on, and by the time we rolled into Windsor Station, the car was full. I remember the conductor making all his announcements in French and English, and when we got to Windsor Station, walking past the Budd cars that had just come in with the weekend-only service from Mont-Laurier. That service over the Labelle sub is long gone, and I believe some of the line has now been lifted.

Unfortunately, VIA (and the transportation industry in general) has little room for such milk runs any more. It's very hard to get anywhere that isn't a major metropolitan centre these days if you don't have a car. Fifty years ago, the railways could have gotten you just about anywhere in Canada that you would have wanted to go. Sure, it might have taken three days and some of the trains might only have run once a week, but you could have gone from Sherbrooke, Quebec to Bienfait, Saskatchewan withour having to own or rent a car.

OK--end of nostalgia rant. That's all for now.
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Posted by siberianmo on Monday, March 21, 2005 9:46 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!



==================================================
Happy Monday!

Every now and then have you ever wondered why some weeks have 5 Mondays in them?! Hopefully, for those of you who make the daily grind to and from work - this will be the only Monday![:D]

Looks like we've picked up a new contributor - [#welcome] OnHarry! Hope you stick around and become one of our regulars.[tup] The purpose of this topic is to discuss our experiences with Canadian Passenger Railroads - past and present. As one of my past comments indicated - if it runs on steel rails and hauls passengers in Canada - it qualifies for discussion![:)]

Every now and then you may post something that you hope will receive even one response, but doesn't.[:(] Don't be discouraged - there just are those who browse through the threads of information and either are not interested in a particular story or wish not to take the time to add a line or two in response. Then again, there are others who may not feel a response is in order, required or otherwise. So, let's not take any of this personally - the idea is to ENJOY the accounts of Canadian Passenger Railroad travel.[:D]

tatans
QUOTE: Morseman: Just found more on the Canadian murals, most were saved, all were restored and can be seen at the Canada Science & Technology Museum, there really is quite a story to the historic artifacts.


Appreciate the info - and so will Morseman when he returns from his vacation. For those who don't know, the museum is in Ottawa and the website is
http://www.sciencetech.technomuses.ca

Happy you are sticking 'round, tatans![tup]

OnHarry
QUOTE: I am disapointed. I have read through the entire thread over the last few days and no one has as yet mentioned my favourtie Canadian Railway the TH&B. Anyway more on that later.

My earliest experience with passenger trains here was seeing my grandfather off with my parents in I believe 1957 or 58. I grew up in Brantford Ontario, and the train did not last too long after that. It was a mixed train I am fairly sure and it started in Stratford and ran down to Paris Jct. on the Drumbo Subdivisoin, then took the main line to Brantford and went onto the Caledonia subdivision to go to Fort Erie. My grandfather lived in Dunnville. This may seem convoluted but it actually followed much of the right of way of the original Buffalo and Lake Huron railway.

It was memeorable as I was already bitten by the railway bug, however my dad did not have a car so I could not go and watch trains at the CN station then. The most vivid memory of the day was a passenger train that preceeded the mixed train and it was pulled by a steam engine that took water while in the station.

A few years later summer 1962 I believe we took a bus to Hamilton, and went to the TH&B's really spiffy station there. I distinctly remember seeing CP fairbanks morse engines switching the coach yard beside the track after we had boarded. You had to go up a ramp to get to the track level. The crews were all known to me as they took the East Local job to Brantford in the winter and did the passenger run in the summer. They would go to Buffalo in the morning and lay over till the evening and return on the train then. They wore New York Central Uniforms except they had TH&B embroidered in gold wire thread on the lapels.

I should add that my dad was a sectionman on the Waterford subdivision, and our whole family was traveling on his pass to Buffalo to spenfd a week with relatives.

The trip over was uneventful, I recall there was a mix of different cars both CP and NYC. The trip back though was really neat. We were in the main concourse at Buffalo's Central Station, and my dad was talking to the engineer and fireman when they walked past. I didn't think anything of it at the time. The train was late leaving as there had been a derailment at Black Rock on the lift bridge across a canal, just before the trains went to the high bridge over the Niagara River. We were diverted to Niagara Falls, New York and crossed the suspension bridge there into Niagara Falls Ontario and ran through the Montrose yard and onto Welland where the train rejoined the TH&B's track. My dad suggested we go for a walk and stretch our legs and maybe I could see the engines. I was happy to comply. We were by this time almost three maybe four hours late.

Tthe engines to my delight were streamlined New York Central E-7's, something I had never seen before. When we got to the head end the engineer, the late Freddie Groves, looked down and said to Dad all clear. Then I was told by my dad to climb up and see the inside of the cab. This was getting better and better. It was not till I got up there that I realized I and my dad were going to ride to Hamilton in the cab. Freddie ran them for all they were worth hitting ninety miles per hour at times and really the whole trip was a blur. I suppose that strictly speaking that is not a passenger tale but I thought you might like it.

I will relate some other stories of CN and CP in another post. thanks for reading.


Lately I have been 'Partially Quoting' some of the more lengthy submissions that are repeated within my summaries, simply to save some space - but in Harry's case - let's read it again![:D]

Harry - what's to be disappointed about?? The idea of our discussion topic is for people with experiences such as yours to share them with the rest of us. So, YOU have become the first to "talk" about the TH&B![:)][tup] Your accounts bring to mind some of my own very early railroading experiences - however, since they took place "down here" in the U.S. - they would be off-topic for this discussion![:(] Suffice it to say that once bitten by the proverbial rail bug, one stays bitten! Great, isn't it?[:D][tup]

Those NYC E7's you mentioned are forever "captured" in one of my wall mounted display cases. The twin "A's" that I have are painted in the freight colors, though. My passenger units are Alco PA/PB's and look absolutely wunnerful ........ [#oops][#offtopic]

Hope you stick around .......[tup][tup]

Dayliner
QUOTE: As I've been following this thread I've been recalling some long-forgotten Canadian train trips. When VIA first came in, they kept most of the existing CN and CP services, running them with existing crews and equipment and on well-established schedules. In the summer of 1979, I spent a lot of time in Montreal, and was able to enjoy a couple of non-corridor CP services that didn't last very long.

One day a couple of friends and I decided to go down to Quebec City for some sight-seeing. We knew there was a fairly good Rapido service on the CN line on the south side of the St Lawrence, so we headed down to Central Station to get a morning departure. No trains today, account track maintenance--there would be a bus instead. However, I knew there was an alternate train service to Quebec, on the CP line along the North Shore through Trois Rivieres (it's always good to have a railfan in your traveling party). We hiked the couple of blocks over to Windsor Station and were able to get tickets on the morning dayliner to Quebec. As I remember, the train was nothing fancy, just a couple of RDCs, but it got us to Quebec (Ste-Foy actually), stopping at most of the towns along the way. I remember what impressed me about the trip was seeing snow on the telegraph poles along the ROW--this was in late May. Not a big deal for most Canadians, I'll agree, but for a kid from Victoria BC, where people cut their grass in winter instead of shovelling snow, it was an eye-opener. We came back to Montreal that evening on a Rapido--fast and full, with the bonus of a ride over the great Quebec Bridge, but not as much fun as those Budd cars stopping at every village.

Later that summer, I decided to go up to Ottawa, again for a day's sightseeing, but this time solo. I went up on the Rapido, on the route VIA still runs, did the tourist thing, and headed back to the station for a train back to Montreal. Incidentally, this was the day that John Diefenbaker's state funeral had been held in Ottawa (he was a former Canadian Prime Minister), and his body was to be taken home to Saskatchewan by train. I got to the station while they were still loading the funeral train, with an honour guard from the Governor-General's Foot Guards marching up and down the platform in their busbies and red tunics. When that train left for the west, the next train to Montreal was--you guessed it--a CP dayliner. At that time, the CP (VIA really) still ran a daily round trip Ottawa-Montreal over the Labelle sub, on the north shore of the Ottawa River. It went down to Montreal in the morning, and back in the evening. In addition, there was a Sunday-only evening train to Montreal, and this was the service I caught. It was just a single RDC--like I was used to at home on Vancouver Island. We left Ottawa with perhaps only two or three passengers, and I thought it would be a quiet ride. We crossed the river to Hull, then headed east. Once again, we were stopping at every town along the route to let people on, and by the time we rolled into Windsor Station, the car was full. I remember the conductor making all his announcements in French and English, and when we got to Windsor Station, walking past the Budd cars that had just come in with the weekend-only service from Mont-Laurier. That service over the Labelle sub is long gone, and I believe some of the line has now been lifted.

Unfortunately, VIA (and the transportation industry in general) has little room for such milk runs any more. It's very hard to get anywhere that isn't a major metropolitan centre these days if you don't have a car. Fifty years ago, the railways could have gotten you just about anywhere in Canada that you would have wanted to go. Sure, it might have taken three days and some of the trains might only have run once a week, but you could have gone from Sherbrooke, Quebec to Bienfait, Saskatchewan withour having to own or rent a car.

OK--end of nostalgia rant. That's all for now.


Dayliner - thanx for the nostalgia! That is a huge part of what I hoped would evolve with the creation of this topic. For anyone who is "into" trains - especially passenger experiences - accounts such as yours really bring back some special thoughts to each of us.[tup][tup][tup]

A railroading friend and I were conversing the other day about "the good old days" and what a shame it is that passenger railroads have all but vanished from the landscape. My comment was that while those days are long gone, in my HO trainroom, many of those trains still "live." I have three rather large wall display cases full of consists of trains that "used to be." Whenever I want to see a GG1 or an EMD E-8 or an Alco PA or heavywieght passenger cars or smoothsides or Budd stainless steel or RDC's ........ all I need to do is go down to my Can-Am trainroom and check them out! It's a great hobby ........ a way to preserve our fondest memories![:)]
=================================================

See ya next time![:D]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Junctionfan on Monday, March 21, 2005 11:00 AM
I have an interesting story I have to tell. I have a music friend who is an elderly gentleman. He like myself loves trains. Much of his family worked for the railroad usually as an engineer. They came from St.Thomas. His grandfather was an engineer for the New York Central and his father for Wabash/ Norfolk Western. His grandfather used to take the Empire Express between Detroit and Buffalo. His father did mostly freight movements between St.Thomas and Fort Erie.

One of his uncles was NYC superindendant of the Detroit to Buffalo line (I'll get back to you on the name I forgot-I believe the last name started with an Sch). It was interesting for him as often at the diner table, his father a NW worker getting into such debates with a NYC manager.
Andrew
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Posted by OnHarry on Monday, March 21, 2005 11:19 PM
I currently reside in St. Thomas Junction fan.

When I was much younger than I am now, one of my favourite trains was the International Limited. I used to ride it often from Brantford to Toronto , and occaionally if I was brave enough, to see it return to Chicago as the last train at night in Brantford, quite often there would be extra cars tacked onto the end and transporting one or two hockey teams. The Maple Leafs used to travel by train to Chicago or Detroit and I suspect to Boston or New York by train.

One thing I really liked about the International lilmited was the engines that usually pulled it. They were heavyweight GP-9's equipped for passenger service and with the air tanks over the Dynamic brakes. Apparently these engines were about six trons heavier than a normal GP-9. The reason the air tanks were on the roof was to make room for a water tank underneath for the steam generator. They also were the same configuration as the TH&B's three passenger GP-9's which may have been the real reason I liked them, though the TH&B engines 401-402-and 403 did not have dynamic brakes.

My friend and fellow railfan Carl Bury and I rode the last run of the International limited from Brantford to Toronto. It was something like 5 minutes late leaving Brantford and arrived in Toronto four minutes early.

There used to be a weird type of service for that train which some others may be able to elaborate on. It would run into Hamilton, then back out to Bayview I believe, to resume it's westward journey, prehaps they picked up sleeping car passengers.

I actually experineced that once when I won a contest in Sunday school, and I went with one of the teachers to a Toronto and we rode the train down, and it must have been a milk run as it stopped in Lynden, and Sunnyside as well as every other station between Brantford and Toronto. When we returned I experienced the bit I mentioned where the train went into Hamilton and backed out after.

Someone mentioned that there was a lot of choice in where you could go in Canada by train, and I suppose the same was true of the US but we are not discussing that. I have a 1949 Official Guide and it was amzing where you could get to by going to the local station. For example there was a train, a mixed I think, that left Brantford daily and went to Burford and Norwich and eventually Tillsonburg and a connection with the Michigan Central, and back again.



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Posted by athelney on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:41 AM
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it in previous posts - but can we include the West Coast Express commuter service from Mission to Vancouver over CP ( dare I mention at the risk of being " sent to Coventry" ) -- freight tracks!!!. Although this is not heritage equipment - being quite new - it still is a Canadian passenger service ..It does run weekdays & on special occasions .
2860 Restoration Crew
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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 2:21 AM
I am just thinking about all the times I rode behind Juncionfan's musician-friend's grandfather on the Empire State Express (when I didn't use the NYC Wolverine or the PRR Red Arrow) on NY - Detroit trips, with him being the engineer Buffalo - Detroit on the Michigan Central's Canada Southern tracks. Did the man's grandfather run Hudsons and Niagras or was he strictly during the diesel era? I enjoyed both.

Rod the International many times between Chicago and Toronto. When CN started its improvements to passenger service it bought some Nickel Plate club cars and two were regulary used on this train. Somehow, leaving Chicago and going to Canada made me loose some my total control over drinking, and I would usually have more than a few beers or shots of wiskey in the car, most usual behavior for me. Maybe it was the thought of reviving the Nickel Plate passenger service. So I would arrive in Toronto with a bit of a hangover (headache) with the sight of the maroon or bright red streetcars to revive me, since we had lost our Green Hornets and Red Rockets in Chicago (except at the IRM museum in Union). Otherwise, my life was pretty sober. Must have been something special about that train for me. Maybe it was just the thought that I was going to a large city with a fully functioning classic streetcar system.
  • Member since
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Posted by Junctionfan on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 6:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I am just thinking about all the times I rode behind Juncionfan's musician-friend's grandfather on the Empire State Express (when I didn't use the NYC Wolverine or the PRR Red Arrow) on NY - Detroit trips, with him being the engineer Buffalo - Detroit on the Michigan Central's Canada Southern tracks. Did the man's grandfather run Hudsons and Niagras or was he strictly during the diesel era? I enjoyed both.

Rod the International many times between Chicago and Toronto. When CN started its improvements to passenger service it bought some Nickel Plate club cars and two were regulary used on this train. Somehow, leaving Chicago and going to Canada made me loose some my total control over drinking, and I would usually have more than a few beers or shots of wiskey in the car, most usual behavior for me. Maybe it was the thought of reviving the Nickel Plate passenger service. So I would arrive in Toronto with a bit of a hangover (headache) with the sight of the maroon or bright red streetcars to revive me, since we had lost our Green Hornets and Red Rockets in Chicago (except at the IRM museum in Union). Otherwise, my life was pretty sober. Must have been something special about that train for me. Maybe it was just the thought that I was going to a large city with a fully functioning classic streetcar system.


I don't know. I'll be talking to him in the afternoon so I'll get back to you soon.
Andrew
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 7:48 AM
Dayliner's comments on the Malahat brought a tear to my eye. I had previously posted about our trip on that train. It was vintage 1950s Budd. The toilets were the line of sight to the rails vintage. That would not fly in most places today. The only sad thing was that the engineer kept the curtain on the window between the coach and cab pulled throughout the trip. When vibration would cause it to raise he would immediately pull it down. We did get coffee and a sandwich in Nanimo. That is an intereresting town. On a previous trip we stayed at a B&B on the shore of Lake Nanimo on our way to Tofino on the west coast. Very enjoyable. I hope that VIA does not drop the Malahat at is is a true national gem!

In my 64 years I have ridden on many defunct lines (abandoned). These include the Pennsylvania line between Baltimore and Harrisburg, B&O between Clarksburg and Parkersburg WV, and the Pennsy between Wellsburg and Wheeling WV. Also rode in a highrail car on several abandoned lines that DART bought before they were rebuilt for light rail service. Also rode from Pittsburgh to Saint Lewis on the Pennsy before the sold or scrapped most of it under Conrail. Sadly I was born a few years to late to ride on FECs line to Key West. The abandoned lines might make a good thread some time.

Siberianmo-this is an interesting thread. Hope it keeps going for a long time. By the way how did you get your handle "Siberianmo"? Have you wintered there?

***
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:32 AM
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple:

Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been."

Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!



=================================================
G'morning all! This is a great day here in mid-continent U.S.A. as the spring rains have arrived and do we ever need it! Good day for railroading - modeling and talking ....... Let's get to the latter:

I noted that prior to this writing, we have 114 postings and 1326 who have browsed our pages, which now are nearing 7. Not bad for those of us interested in CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - not bad at all![tup][tup][tup]

Junctionfan
QUOTE: I have an interesting story I have to tell. I have a music friend who is an elderly gentleman. He like myself loves trains. Much of his family worked for the railroad usually as an engineer. They came from St.Thomas. His grandfather was an engineer for the New York Central and his father for Wabash/ Norfolk Western. His grandfather used to take the Empire Express between Detroit and Buffalo. His father did mostly freight movements between St.Thomas and Fort Erie.


[#welcome] aboard Junctionfan! Hope you become one of our regulars!

One of his uncles was NYC superindendant of the Detroit to Buffalo line (I'll get back to you on the name I forgot-I believe the last name started with an Sch). It was interesting for him as often at the diner table, his father a NW worker getting into such debates with a NYC manager.


I can well imagine the discussions that took place at that dinner table! Those were proud men occupying important professions within an industry that both of our nations dearly depended on. There are times when I just cannot seem to accept that for the most part, it has disappeared (passenger ops) and the frieghts are really shadows of what once was. BUT - then I turn to my library of railroad books and my layout with the display cases ....... it all comes back!

OnHarry
QUOTE: I currently reside in St. Thomas Junction fan.

When I was much younger than I am now, one of my favourite trains was the International Limited. I used to ride it often from Brantford to Toronto , and occaionally if I was brave enough, to see it return to Chicago as the last train at night in Brantford, quite often there would be extra cars tacked onto the end and transporting one or two hockey teams. The Maple Leafs used to travel by train to Chicago or Detroit and I suspect to Boston or New York by train.

One thing I really liked about the International lilmited was the engines that usually pulled it. They were heavyweight GP-9's equipped for passenger service and with the air tanks over the Dynamic brakes. Apparently these engines were about six trons heavier than a normal GP-9. The reason the air tanks were on the roof was to make room for a water tank underneath for the steam generator. They also were the same configuration as the TH&B's three passenger GP-9's which may have been the real reason I liked them, though the TH&B engines 401-402-and 403 did not have dynamic brakes.

My friend and fellow railfan Carl Bury and I rode the last run of the International limited from Brantford to Toronto. It was something like 5 minutes late leaving Brantford and arrived in Toronto four minutes early.

There used to be a weird type of service for that train which some others may be able to elaborate on. It would run into Hamilton, then back out to Bayview I believe, to resume it's westward journey, prehaps they picked up sleeping car passengers.

I actually experineced that once when I won a contest in Sunday school, and I went with one of the teachers to a Toronto and we rode the train down, and it must have been a milk run as it stopped in Lynden, and Sunnyside as well as every other station between Brantford and Toronto. When we returned I experienced the bit I mentioned where the train went into Hamilton and backed out after.

Someone mentioned that there was a lot of choice in where you could go in Canada by train, and I suppose the same was true of the US but we are not discussing that. I have a 1949 Official Guide and it was amzing where you could get to by going to the local station. For example there was a train, a mixed I think, that left Brantford daily and went to Burford and Norwich and eventually Tillsonburg and a connection with the Michigan Central, and back again.


You can bet that the "old" NHL guys used the trains between Montreal, Toronto and the states. How else, really? It must have been great to simply listen to the talk going on as those passenger trains sped from point to point.

GP-9's pullilng passenger trains just "don't get it" for my mental images of passenger trains. Oh, I know - they were widely used in both countries and very, very durable loco's. No slam against them - just that they didn't fit the "mold" insofar as the matching asthetics of passenger trains go.

One train I had planned to take was the International between Chicago and Toronto - Amtrak/ViA Rail's version that is. Unfortunately, the border crossing delays sidetracked my plans and now the train itself. [:(] Maybe one day .........

To this day I get "turned off" when passenger trains have to back out of stations. Oh yes - I UNDERSTAND why and it isn't really a new thing at all. Just that I like 'em better when the pull in and head out.

My model railroad - Can-AM - at Union Station has the VIA Rail consists backing in and the Amtrak's backing out! But, if space permitted .......... [:D]

I was the one who mentioned the frequency of trains between St. Louis and Toronto and other points in Canada. My 1955 "Official Guide of the Railways" shows many ...... What a great time to have been a rail traveler; but the days they were numbered .......

Thanx for your input![tup][tup]

DaveKlepper
QUOTE: I am just thinking about all the times I rode behind Juncionfan's musician-friend's grandfather on the Empire State Express (when I didn't use the NYC Wolverine or the PRR Red Arrow) on NY - Detroit trips, with him being the engineer Buffalo - Detroit on the Michigan Central's Canada Southern tracks. Did the man's grandfather run Hudsons and Niagras or was he strictly during the diesel era? I enjoyed both.

Rod the International many times between Chicago and Toronto. When CN started its improvements to passenger service it bought some Nickel Plate club cars and two were regulary used on this train. Somehow, leaving Chicago and going to Canada made me loose some my total control over drinking, and I would usually have more than a few beers or shots of wiskey in the car, most usual behavior for me. Maybe it was the thought of reviving the Nickel Plate passenger service. So I would arrive in Toronto with a bit of a hangover (headache) with the sight of the maroon or bright red streetcars to revive me, since we had lost our Green Hornets and Red Rockets in Chicago (except at the IRM museum in Union). Otherwise, my life was pretty sober. Must have been something special about that train for me. Maybe it was just the thought that I was going to a large city with a fully functioning classic streetcar system.


Dave - It really is a small world, especially if you buy into that "six degrees of separation" business ...... it works, really does! You know how it goes, "Do you know someone who knows someone who knows (pick the name)?" Invariably, the answer will come way before six go 'rounds. So, chances may very well be that you rode a train connected with Junctionfan's grandfather! [:D]

I don't know WHAT it is about parlour cars - bar cars - observation lounge cars - call 'em what you will - but I too have overdone it in those cars! My latest "trick" is to overimbide (is that a word?) while traveling in the Park Car obs dome of the "Ocean" between Montreal and Halifax .... those O'Keefee Ales do it every time![}:)] Alas, I'm really too old to recuperate from the after effects, so I maintain a "limit" (of sorts!).

Thanx for continuing with the sharing of your experiences!![tup][tup][tup]

athelney
QUOTE: Not sure if anyone has mentioned it in previous posts - but can we include the West Coast Express commuter service from Mission to Vancouver over CP ( dare I mention at the risk of being " sent to Coventry" ) -- freight tracks!!!. Although this is not heritage equipment - being quite new - it still is a Canadian passenger service ..It does run weekdays & on special occasions .


athelney - I repeat - IF IT RUNS ON STEEL RAILS AND HAULS PASSENGERS IN CANADA - let's discuss it!!![:)][:D][tup] Have no fear, Coventry isn't near[}:)]

==================================================
See ya all soon ........ [:)]

Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo)


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:43 AM
AN ADDITION TO MY LAST POST:
wrwatkins
QUOTE: Dayliner's comments on the Malahat brought a tear to my eye. I had previously posted about our trip on that train. It was vintage 1950s Budd. The toilets were the line of sight to the rails vintage. That would not fly in most places today. The only sad thing was that the engineer kept the curtain on the window between the coach and cab pulled throughout the trip. When vibration would cause it to raise he would immediately pull it down. We did get coffee and a sandwich in Nanimo. That is an intereresting town. On a previous trip we stayed at a B&B on the shore of Lake Nanimo on our way to Tofino on the west coast. Very enjoyable. I hope that VIA does not drop the Malahat at is is a true national gem!

In my 64 years I have ridden on many defunct lines (abandoned). These include the Pennsylvania line between Baltimore and Harrisburg, B&O between Clarksburg and Parkersburg WV, and the Pennsy between Wellsburg and Wheeling WV. Also rode in a highrail car on several abandoned lines that DART bought before they were rebuilt for light rail service. Also rode from Pittsburgh to Saint Lewis on the Pennsy before the sold or scrapped most of it under Conrail. Sadly I was born a few years to late to ride on FECs line to Key West. The abandoned lines might make a good thread some time.

Siberianmo-this is an interesting thread. Hope it keeps going for a long time. By the way how did you get your handle "Siberianmo"? Have you wintered there?

***


*** - Sorry that I missed you on the last go 'round ...... hmmmmm, strange.

Anyway - repeated herein: SIberian is for Siberian Husky (have one now and had another for 16 years ... great dogs!). MO is simply for Missouri - where we live! Insofar as Siberia is concerned, the closest I got was in the Bering Sea and the Little Diomede Island. Fortunately, it wasn't winter! That's as close as I ever want to get, thank you very much!

The update provided by Dayliner on the "Malahat" RDC's operated by VIA Rail was enlightening to say the least. I am an RDC fan from 'way back.

My wife and I are planning a return to Vancouver Island and when we do, we hope to "hook up" with "selector" and his wife for an RDC trip. No dates yet - but we hope it to be within the foreseeable future - for me at nearly 67, that's soon![:D]

I still plan to communicate with you by e-mail ...... haven't forgotten!

Thanx for your contributions to this discussion.[tup][tup]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:44 PM
I'm a proud Canadian and have been enjoying this thread immensly. However, I have never ridden The Canadian before. That will all change this summer, though! On July 2nd (the day after Canada Day), I'm going to be taking The Canadian from Edmonton to Winnipeg. I'll be travelling in Silver and Bue Class and have a private bedroom. I've already bought the ticket online. I'm in grade twelve now, so it coincides quite nicely with things since I'll have just finished high school when I go (you could say it's sort of a graduation present). I'm very excited about this trip! I'm going to have trouble waiting over three months for it!
  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 4,115 posts
Posted by tatans on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:13 PM
While working on the ice gang in Moose jaw in the late 1950's we had the priveledge of icing troop trains of returning Korean soldiers (the forgotten war), from Vancouver eastward, the coaches were old maroon passenger cars with windows that would open, at every stop 3 or 4 soldiers would race across the street and load up on beer, we thought these guys deserved a break (102 degrees) so we started chopping up blocks of ice and passing them in the windows for cold beer, they filled the sinks, toilets and anything else with ice and piled the beer in it, it was the first ice they had since Vancouver, never in your life did you ever see more grateful people, we felt we did our part as a sort of welcome home. By the way , you would not have believed what the inside of those coaches looked like ! !
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 1:21 PM
For Siberianmo-

Be glad that you have not been to Siberia. I am a VP of an international oil and gas consulting firm that currently derives about 1/3 of our revenue from Russia. Going there is not fun. A ten hour flight to London, then 6 hours to Moscow. Eight hours on the ground in Moscow then 10 hours to Nowhere Siberia. As they say oil and gas is found in the A _ _ holes of creation and Siberia is no exception. On a good day the food is terrible and it goes downhill from there rapidly. With l;uck you might have hot water for a shower. It is bitterly cold in winter and in the summer the mosquitos can carry off a small child or dog. (Chain your husky down!) Fortunately being one of the most senior people in our company I can pick and choose. I specialize in European operations. After all going to London is far more fun than going to Lenin Square. Lots of good stories of train travel in the UK and Europe. Perhaps if I have time I will start a thread on them sometime.

Has anyone gone to Churchill on the train? We are thinking of flying to Halifax and taking the train to Vancouver with a detour to Churchill. The polar bears au natural are far better than the zoo variety. Looking forward to some feeds on the Churchill line.

***

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