Quentin
QUOTE: The only sad thing was that the engineer kept the curtain on the window between the coach and cab pulled throughout the trip. When vibration would cause it to raise he would immediately pull it down.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Dayliner QUOTE: The only sad thing was that the engineer kept the curtain on the window between the coach and cab pulled throughout the trip. When vibration would cause it to raise he would immediately pull it down. Sad indeed, wrwatkins, and a little surprising, since I've had more cab rides on those E&N Budds than I can remember. Still, you say your trip was fairly recent, so maybe things have changed since my days on the Island. And not everyone enjoys having someone look over their shoulder while they work. Maybe you'll get better luck next time.
QUOTE: The groundrules are pretty simple: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions. FOR NEWCOMERS: May I suggest that you browse the pages from start to finish? You may find something that will enhance what you are about to post, plus you'll find out "where we've been." Ladies and Gentlemen, let's talk Canadian passenger trains!
QUOTE: I'm a proud Canadian and have been enjoying this thread immensly. However, I have never ridden The Canadian before. That will all change this summer, though! On July 2nd (the day after Canada Day), I'm going to be taking The Canadian from Edmonton to Winnipeg. I'll be travelling in Silver and Bue Class and have a private bedroom. I've already bought the ticket online. I'm in grade twelve now, so it coincides quite nicely with things since I'll have just finished high school when I go (you could say it's sort of a graduation present). I'm very excited about this trip! I'm going to have trouble waiting over three months for it!
QUOTE: While working on the ice gang in Moose jaw in the late 1950's we had the priveledge of icing troop trains of returning Korean soldiers (the forgotten war), from Vancouver eastward, the coaches were old maroon passenger cars with windows that would open, at every stop 3 or 4 soldiers would race across the street and load up on beer, we thought these guys deserved a break (102 degrees) so we started chopping up blocks of ice and passing them in the windows for cold beer, they filled the sinks, toilets and anything else with ice and piled the beer in it, it was the first ice they had since Vancouver, never in your life did you ever see more grateful people, we felt we did our part as a sort of welcome home. By the way , you would not have believed what the inside of those coaches looked like ! !
QUOTE: For Siberianmo- Be glad that you have not been to Siberia. I am a VP of an international oil and gas consulting firm that currently derives about 1/3 of our revenue from Russia. Going there is not fun. A ten hour flight to London, then 6 hours to Moscow. Eight hours on the ground in Moscow then 10 hours to Nowhere Siberia. As they say oil and gas is found in the A _ _ holes of creation and Siberia is no exception. On a good day the food is terrible and it goes downhill from there rapidly. With l;uck you might have hot water for a shower. It is bitterly cold in winter and in the summer the mosquitos can carry off a small child or dog. (Chain your husky down!) Fortunately being one of the most senior people in our company I can pick and choose. I specialize in European operations. After all going to London is far more fun than going to Lenin Square. Lots of good stories of train travel in the UK and Europe. Perhaps if I have time I will start a thread on them sometime. Has anyone gone to Churchill on the train? We are thinking of flying to Halifax and taking the train to Vancouver with a detour to Churchill. The polar bears au natural are far better than the zoo variety. Looking forward to some feeds on the Churchill line. ***
QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo Silver & Blue is the way to go and I hope you meet as many interesting and friendly people as we did on our two round trips between Toronto and Vancouver. It's a great train and the history of those cars will surround you as you lie in your bed listening to the clickety clack of the wheels on those welded steel tracks. Ahhhhhhh, what a thought![:D] Happy Graduation to you and I hope you will always appreciate the finer things in life - such as PASSENGER RAIL TRAVELS![tup][:)]
QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain I would like to learn more about Montreal's commuter rail system. Is all or most of it still electrified? Is most of the Montreal metropolitan area served by these trains? Is the service extensive and well run? Does it connect well with VIA, Amtrak, other transport modes? Thanks for info.
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: 24 Mar 2005, 13:32:02 Has anybody experienced the VIA that goes 100mph on the Kingston Sub particularly around Newtonville, and Brighton Ontario area? Very cool and very fast.
QUOTE: tomtrain Posted: 24 Mar 2005, 16:46:41 I would like to learn more about Montreal's commuter rail system. Is all or most of it still electrified? Is most of the Montreal metropolitan area served by these trains? Is the service extensive and well run? Does it connect well with VIA, Amtrak, other transport modes? Thanks for info.
QUOTE: valleytenderfoot Posted: 24 Mar 2005, 19:41:08 Well Tom, this has been a great thread. I have read through it from start to finish and have been greatly entertained. My only personal experience on Canadian Passenger Trains was a brief trip from Kentville (in the Annapolis Valley, former DAR/CPR tracks to Windsor Junction, then CN to the city) to Halifax in 1987 onboard an RDC Dayliner. Exciting for me at the time, I was seventeen and this was my first solo trip to "The City" (yes, I had a sheltered life) The thing I remember most was not the train ride (sadly) but the very, very cold walk from the station in Halifax's South end to Scotia Square in the North end. I had an interview with an ROTC officer to look at my prospects for college and a possible future in the Canadian Forces. (That didn't pan out, I went to college but on my own dime and did wind up working for the Government, but in the civilian public service sector, not the military. Oh well it was definitely worth the train ride) . Thanks for the great read. PS Your recollections of Nova Scotia ale, could you perhaps be referring to Nova Scotia's finest, Alexander Keiths India Pale Ale? Brewed only in Nova Scotia since 1820 it represents, in my humble opinion, the finest ale in all the Commonwealth and the former colonies. And though I did not partake of it on my train ride to Halifax in '87, I have imbibed regularly since then. (Well, officially only after I turned nineteen, the legal drinking age here in NS) They have a lovely website www.keiths.ca and they offer tours of the brewery on Lower Water Street, just a short walk from the train station. Jeff
QUOTE: Sask_Tinplater Posted: 24 Mar 2005, 20:47:49 Thanks, I'm sure it will be fantastic! Despite being young, I've always prefered the trains of yesteryear to modern ones (although I still love them, too). The history of railroading has always appealed to me greatly and, in my mind, the wonderful streamliners of years ago were the greatest thing the rails have ever seen. The thing about the Canadian is that it's really the last true streamliner left in North America. It uses it's original equipment, runs on the same route (OK, not really, but it still goes from Toronto to Vancouver) and provides the same high-class service in the tradition that it always has. This is what train travel is all about! This will certainly be a special trip for me...and I'm quite sure that it won't be my last ride on the Canadian!
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: Today, 00:37:18 Hello unfortunatly no none of it is still electrified.The only moderatly electric service in Montreal is the "metro" these are their subway tubes run by the city.The Montreal commutor rail is your usual push-pull Bi-level bombardier cars with diesel power F59PHI's and the odd FP7U's(these are back up power now only) As far as I know they do connect at the main station downtown so you should be able to pick up VIA trains. Perhaps Tom would know if amtrak still calls on Montreal.The only operable Montreal commuter electric in Canada is M&SC 107 at our Musem www.hcry.org in ontario. Though the Delson St Constant CRHA museum has many montreal city cars and some of the interurbans in their collection.This museum is well worth seeing if you are in the montreal area. Rob
QUOTE: selector Posted: Today, 01:37:38 Fellas, this is off topic somewhat, but I hope I can be excused just this once? My wife and I went to a dinner/theatre in Chemainus, home to the famous murals. While waiting to dine, we walked around the quaint downtown to browse and stretch our legs. Inside one art store were two large black and white photos, taken in winter, of what is known as the "Kinsol" trestle. Apart from the astounding price of $350, the trestle was a marvel to behold. The King Solomon mine was in production from the late 1990's until it closed in '07, somewhere in the Cowichan Valley. Some of the trestle was completed, but the War stopped the project. CN finally bought the right of way and completed the trestle, with all new timber, in April '20. Some stats: 700,000 board feet of lumber, 615' long, 125' high, with a 7 deg curvature on the deck. Comprised 6 Howe trusses superimposed by 44 frame bents. It is a thing of beauty, and I SHALL see it this summer. I report this because most of us will tackle a trestle at some point, if not already done, and it is great knowing that they are still around. Also, I experienced a number of dizzying rides over gorges and trestles in the Andes in my youth...unforgettable. For those who would like a truly unique rail adventure, try the Peruvian Andes above 4000 feet.
QUOTE: daveklepper Posted: Today, 04:01:02 I am confused by the comment about the only Montreal commuter electric is the subway. I absolutely certain that is in error, if by subway, you are referring to the Metro with its Paris style rubber-tired semi-automated trains (i understand all the motorman needs to do is close the doors and the automation takes it from there to door opening at the next stop, with manual control available -not sure if this is on one line or all three). But there is the CN or ex-CN "Deux Montains" line that runs north of Cental Station, and there should be some tracks in Central Station with catenary, to the northern suburbs and this line has been electrified for possibly 60 years, installed when Central Station was built. Through passenger service to the North used to have box-cab electrics pull them through the tunnel into the northern suburbs before switching to steam or diesel, but now better ventilation does permit some diesel operationt through the tunnel . But they did recently buy some new mu power cars and trailer cars, so I am sure that this electrified line continues, although possibly you are correct in that it is now considered part of the subway system. I suspect that it may still be operated by CN crews with the city transit authority subisidizing it.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Dayliner Hey there siberianmo (and everyone else), For those of you who were asking about the E&N "Malahat" dayliner, it is very definitely worth the trip--the last daily rural (or semi-rural) branch-line passenger service in North America, I believe. VIA markets it as sightseeing day-trip, so it can be easily integrated into your vacation if you are planning to spend more than a couple of days on Vancouver Island. The Budds overnight in the old CPR roundhouse in Victoria West (about half a mile west of the station in downtown Victoria, and on the other side of the harbour). They run back to the station to load (used to be about half an hour before departure; don't know whether that is still the case).
QUOTE: The passenger crews used to be based in Victoria and would work three days on, three days off--it was a highly-coveted gig: working days, home every evening for supper (not many running trades jobs like that). All E&N crews are now based in Nanaimo, so the crew starts its day in Nanaimo mid-morning, runs up to Courtenay, brings the train back to Victoria, overnights in Victoria then takes the tain back to Nanimo the next morning where a new crew takes over.
QUOTE: Usual crew is engineer and conductor--there is no food service on board so there are no food and drink employees. The cars have been recently rebuilt and are really nice to ride in (except I understand 6148 keeps breaking down). Usual consist is one or two cars depending on the season, although I have ridden a three-car tain on the Island.
QUOTE: To ride the whole line is a four and a half hour trip one way, and there is no food service on board, so the non-railfans in your party may want a smaller dose (perhaps a day-trip Victoria-Chemainus and return which would suit the whole family). For those making the whole trip, a catering truck meets the train at Nanaimo both north- and south-bound, so you can at least get a coffee and a sandwich.
QUOTE: Originally posted by Dayliner [] Sad indeed, wrwatkins, and a little surprising, since I've had more cab rides on those E&N Budds than I can remember. Still, you say your trip was fairly recent, so maybe things have changed since my days on the Island. And not everyone enjoys having someone look over their shoulder while they work. Maybe you'll get better luck next time.
Mark Meyer
QUOTE: Originally posted by CANADIANPACIFIC2816 An excellent source of information about the passenger trains of the Canadian Pacific Railway can be found in "Nicholas Morant's Canadian Pacific" by J.F. Garden. Nicholas Morant was the CPR's official publicity photographer for more than 40 years and his work is absolutely gorgeous! I would love to see a bunch of us guys who have an interest in the CPR form a Canadian Pacific historical society, and as far as I know, no such organization currently exists. If I am wrong, I would hope that one of our Canadian bretheren would tell me so.
QUOTE: CANADIANPACIFIC2816 Posted: 25 Mar 2005, 12:30:38 An excellent source of information about the passenger trains of the Canadian Pacific Railway can be found in "Nicholas Morant's Canadian Pacific" by J.F. Garden. Nicholas Morant was the CPR's official publicity photographer for more than 40 years and his work is absolutely gorgeous! I would love to see a bunch of us guys who have an interest in the CPR form a Canadian Pacific historical society, and as far as I know, no such organization currently exists. If I am wrong, I would hope that one of our Canadian bretheren would tell me so.
QUOTE: enr2099 Posted: 25 Mar 2005, 12:40:13 [ PARTIALLY QUOTED] The Budds are actually based out of Victoria. They usually run down to the station about 15 minutes prior to departure. Crews are based in Nanaimo now and run 3 days on, 3 days off alternating on Sundays. Still held by the guys with the most seniority, Nick Morris, the conductor that works Mon-Wed has been with the railway since 1978. I'd like to point out for those who don't know, the E&N run the trains for VIA, and supply the crews. They seem to have solved the problems with 6148 as it's running fine now. There are only two operational cars, VIA would rather sell out then add a third car as it would require a second conductor. Although they have run three car trains in the past. The VIA agents in Victoria recommends you pack a lunch as the snack waggon isn't always there. If it is, do what I do, stock up for the rest of the trip :D . There is also a small coffee shop in the Courtenay station that is run by a local charity, and they usually have the BBQ going when the weather is nice, you can get coffee, burgers, pop, hotdogs, etc. by donation. The snack truck has some good sandwiches and quite a selection of soft drinks(Pepsi and Coke brands). Most people ride to Qualicum Beach and go for lunch while the train runs to Courtenay and have 2 hours before it returns heading south. The E&N crews are great and will go out of their way to make sure you have a good trip. Since at least 1999, Transport Canada put an end to the cabrides on the E&N Budd Cars after several collisions that ended up hurting passengers riding up front with the engineer, the engineer has to be able to RUN if a collision is imanent. . Depending on the conductor, you can still ride in the rear cab. But they're trying to stop passengers from riding in the rear cab as they think a cigarette thrown from the train by a passenger smoking in the rear cab caused the Green Lake Trestle fire. -------------------- Tyler Welsford
QUOTE: selector Posted: 25 Mar 2005, 12:57:13 Siberianmo, I have been mostly off line doing gardening, house work, finishing touches on layout (biggest was painting river and lake bottoms and edges, and then pouring the 'water'). Just got a Super Emprie Builder and now have to acquire a power supply...grrrr! Picked up one of two daughters who live in Ottawa at the ferry in Nanaimo, and she exclaimed, (quote) Holy crap! (unquote) when she saw the layout. I guess it must be something. I'm in and out here, but I do try to keep up. For the others, thanks for keeping this alive. I know you've made Tom's month. Lang may yer lum reek.
QUOTE: Grinandbearit Posted: 25 Mar 2005, 20:42:01 The Montreal-Deux Montagnes is still electrified but using Bombardier MU motors and trailers. I don't know whether they are still operated by CN crews but I doubt it. Apparently ridership on the line has increased to the point that it's hard to find space on the cars at intermediate stops on the way in to Central station.
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted: 25 Mar 2005, 23:13:27 I've traveled quite a bit on Canadian Railways over the years. Just about all the trips have been memorable...there are just so many great trips available even today, though highly diminished from years past. Certainly some of my favorites include the Chaleur, the Hudson Bay, the Algoma Central Hearst train, and Quebec North Shore and Labrador. Probably the most memorable was in 2002 aboard the Canadian, and not for the reason most people remember riding the Canadian like scenery, service, equipment, or food though they were all great. I was invited along with various family members to celebrate their matriarch's 95th birthday, which would actually occur that following winter (but summer seemed like a better time to do this, especially with someone coming up on 95 years young). Since she was like "my other Mom," I jumped at the chance to join the group. The rail portion of the trip actually started for me when I boarded the westbound Empire Builder in St. Paul, Minnesota. The next day, the birthday lady (who lived in Glendive, Montana) and her son (a resident of Havre) boarded the same train in Wolf Point, Montana. At Whitefish, Montana a daughter and spouse boarded and at Spokane, Washington another daughter and son-in-law got aboard the Empire Builder. We all rode to Seattle where we spent the evening. The next morning, we rode the Amtrak Cascades service to Vancouver, BC where we had almost six hours to wait until the departure of VIA train 2, the Canadian, which we would ride to Winnipeg. During our layover in Vancouver, I had arranged for a charter tour company (Blue Mountain Tours) to give us a quickie tour of Vancouver. After the bus tour, we returned to the Vancouver VIA station where we had our first encounter with VIA personnel that would be uniformly pleasant and helpful for our entire trip. And of course when they found out the purpose of our trip, we became somewhat like celebreties, since even pushing 95, Eileen was a joy to be around, and touched all those she encountered. We departed Vancouver at 530 PM on June 30, 2002. I like to plan things well in advance, and I agonized over how to make this trip even more special than it was given those accompanying the birthday girl and the circumstances. When I realized that we would be passing through Jasper on July 1 - Canada Day, and that the train is due to spend well over an hour there....I had an idea. About two weeks prior to the trip, I called a local bakery in Jasper, Alberta, and ordered a birthday cake to be delivered to the train. It would be in celebration of our trip in honor of Eileen's 95th birthday, of course, but I also wanted to celebrate Canada's 135th birthday too. Amazingly, the bakery had no problem with this request, and they didn't even insist on advance payment! I had notified my intentions to bring the cake on board to VIA even before the trip. When the train got to Jasper....a few minutes early, I went into the station....no cake. So, I went to the bakery, which was a few blocks away. They told me that the cake had just left and was enroute to the station! When I returned to the station, there it was, and I was aghast! This thing was huge....it would turn out to be about as big as a whole table in the Skyline Car! The cake was a work of art: It was a Canadian flag, red and white, with the red portions made most of fresh strawberries with some red flowers. It had the obligatory "Happy Birthday Eileen" on it, of course (nothing about Canada Day, but hey, who couldn't figure out it was the flag?). The cake was so big that we couldn't get it through the vestibule doors (without tipping it), so it was brought in one of the side doors that opens on the lower level opposite the galley in one of the Skyline Cars. Once inside, I placed four small flags I had brought with me for just this occasion: 2 Canadian in celebration of Canada Day, 1 American because after all, Eileen was American, and one Irish (her maiden name was McCarthy!). I kept the cake a secret to the rest of the family in the entourage and shortly after departing Jasper, I rounded up everyone in the group and we went to the Skyline Car, where the VIA crew had set up paper plates, knives, forks, champagne, and glasses in honor of the occasion. Needless to say, it was quite a surprise to everyone including the birthday girl. Now, I'm not computer-savvy enough to figure out how to post a picture of Eileen with her cake (and unfortunately I'm in there too) in this forum, but you can see it in my Yahoo profile at: http://profiles.yahoo.com/vermontanan And, yes for those that are wondering, I really did change clothes in an attempt to wear the colors of Canada's flag that day! Anyway, due to size of this cake, of course we shared with everyone on the train, and after that, we were the talk of the train for the rest of the trip. The remainder of trip that day was uneventful, and we were on time or early everywhere. Before turning in that evening, we were advised that we would be detouring around some bridge work the next day, though the route wasn't specified. The next morning I woke up about 500 AM, and we were moving slowly, but steadily. Finally, we came to a town and I was surprised to discover we were on CP's Sutherland subdivision at Lanigan, Saskatchewan. We were detouring all the way from Saskatoon to Portage la Prairie on CP. The speed limit was a leisurely 25 or 35 MPH though it picked up 45 MPH someplace around Minnedosa, Manitoba. Needless to say, we were late, and finally arrived in Winnipeg about 8 hours down. It was nice to ride some new trackage, though I always enjoy the Qu'Appelle Valley from the CN line. I think this area of Saskatchewan and Manitoba is fantastically scenic, and should be viewed by all that think the prairies are flat and treeless. From Winnipeg, we rented a car and we were met by a friend and we drove to Northeast North Dakota for a couple of days. I flew back home out of Winnipeg, and the rest of my party returned to their various origin points on the Empire Builder from Devils Lake. Unfortunately, Eileen passed away in November of 2003, just short of her 96th birthday, but she never spent any time in a nursing home and truly did live life to the fullest right to the end. While everyone enjoyed the trip on the Canadian (the Budd-built equipment is hard to top, and the staff was excellent), I couldn't help but come away a bit disappointed. Riding the Canadian and the Empire Builder at the same time allowed some interesting comparisons. It's easy to put the travel experience on the Canadian on a pedestal....truly, it's great. It is, however, sadly very much just about exclusively a tourist train. Though some are listed in the timetable (they now require 48-hours advance notice to stop), we made no passenger stops between Vancouver and Kamloops or between Jasper and Edmonton. We passed Viking 20 minutes ahead of scheduled time and stopped at Wainwright and departed there 8 minutes early. Clearly, this train is not used day in out by Canadians along the route. I was shocked to see the lack of station facilities....many places, like Valemount and Biggar (actually I had visited Biggar two years previous) don't even have an accessible shelter anymore. While the Superliner equipment on the Empire Builder hardly rates as high as the experience in riding in a "Park" car on the Canadian, clearly the Empire Builder is more of a "real" passenger train. The Empire Builder was packed, and there were people boarding and detraining at every stop. Along the entire route, there is only one (Essex, Montana, where a van from the Izaak Walton Inn will pick you up) without at least a lighted/heated waiting area with restrooms. The Empire Builder has as many staffed stations (with ticket agents) in North Dakota alone than does the route of the Canadian between Vancouver and Winnipeg, inclusive. Couple this with the Empire Builder operating daily and the Canadian but three days per week, and one gets the impression that the "Canadian" is not really operating for Canadians. Of course, most are aware that the Empire Builder is Amtrak's best-patronized long distance train and serves an area with few other transportation alternatives; still the comparison is an interesting one. And, I would recommend riding either or both to anyone.
QUOTE: trolleyboy Posted: Today, 00:34:25 This book is absolutly gorgeous and is a wonderfull testiment to CP passenger trains and of Mr Morant's lifes work. I highly rcomend it to everyone. I'd love to see aCP group as well,next to traction the CP is the next best thing in rring. I'm wondering if the CP sig lines group is still active. I know the TH&B and CN ones are still going strong. Thanks to grinnanbearit for clearing up the 'lectrification" Dave as far as I know the old boxcabs are all long retired and likely scrapped.Though I had heard the CHRA museum did grab one or two for preservation. Heres hopping. Yes the rubbertired metro isn't the worlds best subway I do prefer the real mc coy TTC or NYC third rail type systems but hey we electric fans take what we can get. Hopefully the upswing in the travellers on the line will entice the city to expand their horizons and bring in more of the mu equipment. It's nice to see that more and more cities are getting back into at least concidering or expanding their light rail systems. Ottawa is changimg the O train to electrics and both edmonton and Camgary are concidering expanding possibly even connecting the two cities eventually(pending the funding) i've heard rumbles of toronto possibly building a light rail run to the airport as well.And Kitchener/waterloo are going ahead with the first stage of a calgary type LRV system as well. It looks as if it;s a go as the kitchener designers have told the engenneers working on the expansion of Hihway 7/8 to include the right of way and height for overpasses to include space for the LRV trackage and overhead. hopefully the juice is back with more to come. Rob
QUOTE: Junctionfan Posted: Today, 06:30:00 Does anybody know if GO transit plans to extend to St.Catharines anytime soon?
QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo I have a copy of the Special Issue of Classic Trains in front of me. The cover features "The Canadian" in maroon/grey livery with the beaver herald. The story inside is good reading and provides lots of insight with regard to the history of this fine train. Run - don't walk - to your local hobby shop (LHS as so many like to point out) and get one before they are all gone. About the only thing I found 'wrong' with the story is one picture of CP Rail's version of "The Canadian" at Moran'ts Curve. That "action red" just doesn't do it for me - I prefer the original colors every time. Other than that - well worth the money for the issue. See you again? Hope so![:D][tup]
QUOTE: VerMontanan Posted: Today, 13:54:41 Tom wrote: "However, nothing can match those Budd stainless steel beauties - nothing! So, Amtrak's "Empire Builder" of today may very well be in the every day operation of transporting people from place to place, but VIA Rail "wins" hands down when it comes to providing the REAL railroading experience for those of us who care about what passenger rail travel should be (and I'm sure you do!)." Tom, I do care about passenger rail travel, and that's why I would agree and disagree with you. I would agree with regard to the "Budd stainless steel beauties" providing a "real" railroading experience, but NOT in the instance of the Canadian. The best such experience would be on the Chaleur (and Ocean on trips when it still has that equipment). Unlike the Canadian, these are real trains with mostly local traffic. In these cases, you have the combination of providing a much-used public service and equipment that provides a great travel experience. While "cruise" and tourist trains do prove that traveling by rail is very comfortable and a great way to experience scenery, I believe that too many people associate these aspects with the only reason long distance trains should exist. When I consider "what rail passenger travel should be", especially with regard to long distance service it should NOT be route with few staffed stations, it should NOT be a route where unstaffed stations have no station facilities, it should NOT be a route that operates tri-weekly, it should NOT be a route where sleeping car rates are beyond the means of many people, it should NOT be a route where most of the stops have a restriction requiring a 48-hour notice on a tri-weekly schedule. When I'm traveling the Empire Builder, and it stops at the station at Rugby, North Dakota (still a staffed station that has won Amtrak's "station of the year" award in the past) and local people, not necessarily tourists enroute to the doctor in Seattle or college in the Twin Cities, this, to me, is the REAL railroading experience because in the end, it's all about people and nothing about equipment. But, since this thread is about Canadian passenger trains, I'll add that trains like the Hudson Bay, Chaleur, and services operated by Algoma Central (now CN), Ontario Northland, and Quebec North Shore and Labrador still operate for the people along the route to use. --Mark
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