CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

[kvtrains]

So here's a different spin on Canadian passenger trains - the potential of a resurrection of service on the CP main line between Calgary and Banff, but affordable. They have an informational website functioning that they are using to explain their concept to potential investors and regulatory officials etc. The idea is basically to run a regularly scheduled train on weekends to Banff and I think Lake Louise with a late day return to Calgary. There's also a planned run to a couple of locations in BC, but I think they are looking to start modestly and see if the thing can survive before going there.

The website is at

http://members.shaw.ca/stampedecityrail

and is pretty complete. Looks like they have a good groundwork laid and simply need to raise capital. Anybody want to invest in a railroad?

[chateauricher]

DL,

A couple comments about your recent observations...

First of all, the STM (Société de transport de Montréal), the public transit authority in Montréal responsible for bus and metro service, does indeed have a logo for the metro.  It is a circle with an inverted arrow inside (usually white on a blue background), as you can see on their web site :  http://www.stcum.qc.ca/English/metro/a-index.htm or http://www.stcum.qc.ca/English/en-bref/a-logos.htm .  It can be argued that they seem to use this logo sparingly on the streets.

The AMT (Agence métropolitaine de transport http://www.amt.qc.ca/english/welcome.asp ) is responsible for the commuter trains de banlieu (suburban trains).  Being a separate entity from the STM, it is not surprising that their stations and schedules don't co-ordinate very well.  To be frank, these commuter train links were an afterthought.  Only in the last few years, have the powers-that-be decided that integration and co-ordination of the greater Montreal region's many public transit systems is a good idea.

Second, the primary focus of the STM, AMT and most public transit authorities in Canada (and, indeed, in North America), is to provide transportation at peak (rush) and business hours -- specifically, Monday to Friday, 6am to 6pm.  Weekend, evening, holiday and overnight service is often extremely limited.  Unfortunately, this is of little use to people who work or need to get around outside those hours.  Let's face it, we North Americans love our cars, so governments historically have spent money on highways instead of making public transit services more efficient and convenient.

Thirdly, and this is a minor point, but the term interstate is an American term.  There are no interstates in Canada.  In Canada, the term(s) used for a divided, multi-lane, limited access highway vary from province to province.  In the province of Québec, what an American would call an interstate is known as an autoroute.

 

[trolleyboy]

DL - Sounds like you are having a whale of a time there I do hope you can make it out to the museum though, they have an absolute ton of equipment of all vintages and modes of rail transit and freight.You may get your wish for a new corporate logo for the Metro. They are currently looking into replacement cars from Bombardier.Who knows a new logo may come out of it as well.What they really need to do is reinstate street railway service back to the city of Montreal

Rob

[Nataraj]

NWES FLASH!!!

ROYAL HUDSON BACK UNDER HER OWN POWER!!!

JUST GOT HER BOILER AND PARTS CERTIFIED!!

[DL - UK]

Thanks Morseman - taking the metro first - I was impressed with this.

I like the spacious stations and the rather evocative 1970s - maybe early 80s decor schemes, look a little dated at first but the quality shines through and with time these will be great period pieces. I must say I prefer the cars on the TTC with their shiny stianless bodywork, but in Montreal they look rather like the french cars in Paris, and of course the rubber tyred drive whells give impressive acceleration.

Sad to see the vandals have attacked the windows in the way now seen in London, in UK they have treid to get on top of this with mixed success but involves CCTV in the cars and also some protective film they place on the glass, as I say with mixed success.

All credit to a bi lingual guy in the Berri Uqam info office who equipped us with a full transit map (Canadians do these so well, I´ve had Toronto and now Montreal and Quebec City maps - they are great as they have the full street map overlaid so it is free city map with transit network, a real boon to any visitor - nearest London equivalent was the all London Bus Map which if it is still produced is charged for but may now only be available ont he web - no use to most people in the field!).

One comment I would make is that Montreal needs a more iconic subway logo - the TTC has a great brand image, not so for Montreal I feel. When looking for stations I tended to look out for aplace that "looks a bit like it might be a Metro station" and it would be one, not so easy to identify. I know the London Underground roundel is one of the most famous in the world, but others have got good brands so a little more effort here maybe?

What amuses me is the sheer low volume of traffic compared with europe - great spacious stations but low vols of passengers. Shows a civic committment to the transit system wheras a british approach would be along the following lines: "here we have a big city with a vast population, how can we build the cheapest possible, smallest transit system we can get away with then crowd as many people as possible into it, oh and not accept we need to rebuild it at least every 100 years".

AMT: not ridden on them yet although yes in theory you can get to Rail Musuem using this as it is adjacent to the rail station at St Constant, BUT, and it is a big but, the service is only out of town in the eve rush so you could only visit the museum if you wanted to sleep there! in bound direction trains to the city are morning only! Seems to be bus access but I,ve not made it out there yet. Too far away from me but also of interest looks like the Hull - Wakefield Steam train north of Ottawa, also in Quebec.

In fairness AMT runs a couple of excursion trains out to the RR museum in summer which is nice (according to a leaflet of days out by train suggestions I picked up at the AMT desk in Montreal Gare Centrale).

By the way, Gare Central is a truly impressive bit of architecture, as you suggested Tom, I loved the deco murals round the walls and all maintained in tip top condition.

This raises a question from me re services like AMT - in theory this is a great suburban network, but the number of trains is so sparse it hardly seems worth the investment in the equipment and stations, basically most lines seems to have 3-5 city bound services in the morning, similar number back at end of work day, don´t even seem to take riders int he opp. direction when going to start their run (eg surely the trains run out to the end of the line in the morning in order to collect passengers on the run into the city, why do they not take poeple in the other driection (or vice versa if the car yards are out of town). Could be better service here I think if people are really to be persuaded out of the autos - and amusing for me to see rush hour congestions just as bad as we have in Europe desite the massive road based infrstructure provided here.

More on VIA later. just to say these are very much observations from my UK perspective, certainly no criticisms. A real plus is the friendly and helpful manner of transit staff, which is rather different than the sometimes rather stand offish or downright unhelpful attitude occasionaly found in the UK.

Regards

DL - UK

[morseman]

To: DL UK

Looking forward to your posting and your views on VIA Rail,  Montreal   Quebec City   Our Metro Subway. Were you able to get to the RR Museau in St.Constant?    I lived in Dorval, in an adjacent suburb about 25 years ago, so things have certainly changed siince I was there last.       

[DL - UK]

Montreal Airport to Downtown using public transit

Well folks, having made the journey i feel it may be helpful to set out the details with the benefit of experience. Arrival termina at Montreal airport (Dorval - Trudeau) is devoid of public transit info but a recce outside soon finds the city transit bus stop equipped with route map (one road over from the main doors, slightly to the left). Only service seems to be the route 204 which runs frequently (15 min intervals I think). A small queue of locals confirmed I was in the right place. The 204 seems to conclude its run at Dorval so getting on at the airport is a short trip to Dorval bus station - a sort of bus interchange point near the VIA / Regional transit rail station although not quite at the same location (you could indeed walk here as an earlier contributor suggested, so long as you knew the right direction to head for when leaving the arrival terminal, you would have to hike across several large car parks, but given the cheap fare on the route 204 bus there is very little point in walking).

At Dorval bus interchange get off the 204 and switch to the 211 bus - this is an express bus that heads for the city along the interstate. It drops you off at the Lionel-Groulx metro station from where you can choose either the orange or green metro lines down to the city centre. Getting a transfer ticket when paying on the 204 ensures the whole ride costs $2.50 can. All very simple when you know how.

Dorval - city by suburban train would be speedier but you would need to be sure of the times from the AMT website since the frequency is not great - a few in the mornign and eve and then not so many at other times so if your flight did not co-incide it would not be helpful.Plus the station is not catually a true interchange with the bus station as it looked like it was divided by a large road which would require navigation with baggage, not so easy I thought.

Thought these notes might be handy - you never know when someone might search this page for just the same info.

I´ve also taken a VIA train to Quebec City which was very enjoyable. More of my thoughts on that in due course.

Regards

DL - UK

[chateauricher]

Well thank you gents - must sign off now thoigh as have plane to get so I can ride canadian passenger trains - thanks for those tips about Dorval. My bag is pretty light!

Don't count on being allowed to board a VIA train at Dorval to get to downtown Montreal.  The only "local" train service between Dorval Station and Central Station is offered by the commuter train service of the Montreal Transit Commission.

The "no local service" rule is so that VIA Rail doesn't compete with local public transit or taxi services.  (FYI, even the inter-urban bus services follow this rule.)

Your best bet is to arrange to take a shuttle bus from the airport directly to your hotel; or to the main bus terminus in downtown Montreal and then taxi or metro to your hotel.  Ask about this at the airport or with your travel agent.  Its not as convenient as a taxi door-to-door; but its cheaper.

 

[DL - UK]

Well thank you gents - must sign off now thoigh as have plane to get so I can ride canadian passenger trains - thanks for those tips about Dorval. My bag is pretty light!

 

DL UK

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

I guess it all depends on one's definition of "very close." When lugging baggage AND the shuttle between the airport and train station is either very, very late or not operating - that can be one hulluva walk! <grin>

Anyway - Grinandbearit -  glad to know that there are trains operating to downtown  - just no longer VIAs.

Morseman  - I still have my speed key (bug), but hardly ever drag it out. My skills are most probably rather rusty - although - from time to time I get the urge! <grin>

Good to see ya over here, Rob! Appears as if my response to our friend in NL either got "lost" or . . .

Just a matter of time to determine whether this Thread has indeed been resurrected. The idea of it was - and is - to share our thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present.  I'll be checking in from time to time - but spend most of my online time over at "Our" Place on the Classic Trains - General Discussions Forums.

Later!

Tom

[morseman]

To TOM:

Great to see the topic you started quite a while ago again attracting lots of traffic.      I tried to resurect my old morse key & sounder, but the wires were quite brittle and frayed, so it's back on the shelf.   It would have been a lot easier if I had learned your morse, as I would just have had to buy a door buzzer, rather than trying to restore an antique.

[morseman]

The Dorval train station is VERY close to Trudeau airport in Dorval (about one mile) I haven't lived in Montreal for quite a while, but I was under the impression there was going to be a shuttle service from the airport of the CN station.     The CN and CP/local transit  stations are opposit each other so be careful what platforms you are on.    Also I dont know the schedules for the local transit trains from Rigaud to Montreal.           One question        Can you take the Montreal Metro Line that goes to Ile Ste Helene/Longueuil & then take a South Shore local bus to get to the rail museum in Delson?

[Grinandbearit]

The reason that the VIA Timetable says "No local service between Montreal and Dorval" is because the Montreal transit system provides the local service. It runs on the CP lines from downtown to Rigaud.

[trolleyboy]

  Good afternoon folks,nice to see the chat still surviving here.Tom I don't remember seeing a few of those pictures either. I may have but they just dissapeared in the mists of my mind

Marc- Those Tee's are in much better shape.The Northbay examples will likey stay in an outside setting. Currently they are parked behind the old CPR station in North Bay ( which itself has just been restored and turned into a flea market ) at least the building has been preserved. CPR stopped thier service to North Bay years ago.

On a partially related note,both the Fedreal and Provincail govt ( Ontario ) have pledged money to help upgrade the passenger service, both equipment and trackage. On the Algoma central so that it can continue to serve the populations north of the Agawa canyon. Wisconcin central and now CN who own the ACR had both deffered the maintenance on the trackage out of the park. CN maintains the Sault to canyon portion because of the successfull dinner and excursion trains rrunnin gon that portion of the line.However the givt has declared the rest of the line a vital service much like the ONR's lines from Cocheran to Mooseanee / Moose Factory.

Lars nice shots of the Super Continental. too bad that VIA did away with that sernice I did much prefre it in the original Suoper continental scheme of the CNR's Black / Green / and Gold.

See you at the bar

Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day DL,

Mea culpa - in my quest to be of further assistance, I am guilty of not reading the fine print! That CAN and DOES get one into hot water, eh

Once upon a time . . . the train did carry you into downtown's Central Station. Apparently VIA has discontinued the boardings at Dorval. No great loss though, for it wasn't the most convenient location to get to from the airport. Last time I traveled it was in 2005 . . .

Apologies!

Tom

[DL - UK]

Tom - I'd thought that station might be a possiblity, but I note a footnote on that pdf timetable which states 'No local service between Montreal and Dorval' (and VIA website won't give a fare suggesting they don't want your custom for that journey) which I took to mean you could not get on if you were a local passenger. Is this just one of those rules that is ignored and that you can get on and ride?

DL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Hello again DL - and a Happy Labor Day to you!

I believe some of the comments made about this Thread applies to many, many others where some - not all - of the particpants simply haven't figured out how to acknowledge the other guy's efforts and go for the "hit 'n run" Posts. For the most part, I'd say the majority of "stuff" on these pages has been within the spirit of what was Posted on page one for the "ground rules."

There is a VIA Rail station at Dorval (Trudeau International) in Montreal. Here's a URL that you may find helpful if you wish to use the train into Central Station . . .

http://www.viarail.ca/pdf/2006/new/National_5455_042006.pdf

I will offer that the station is not the most convenient to the terminal, but I think you indicated you were traveling light - so perhaps this will be just what you're looking for.

Later!

Tom

[DL - UK]

Thank you friends - another helpful hotel location - and some interesting metro details - rubber tired eh? - same as Paris - they export the technology no doubt - shame that VIA not been given budget to get the whole TGV concept off the ground just like France too - mind you they had to be kicking and screaming before the export to UK was sanctioned and even now it will not be built thru to London till next year!

I'll take a metro journey of course - but Metro does not serve the airport by the looks of it - what is it about transport planners not working this out (and you are not alone in North America I should add) - even London only had a rail link to Heathrow as an after thought and one to Gatwick as a co-incidence!

As for implied criticisms of this site I can't speak for earlier postings, but as I probably re started the thread I'll put on record my thanks to people who have given me handy tips which will enhance my trip and VIA travel - and if that is not in the spirit of internationalism I don't know what is. I'm very gratful. I'll report back on my return, and the place will be in the bar - then I can stand a round of drinks too!

DL - UK

 

[LoveDomes]

G'day Captain Tom!

Here's a little something that may bring back a memory or three from those who have enjoyed the Montréal subway system . . .

 

Montréal Métro (photo credit: unknown)

 

Good to see ya, BK and catch y'all later over at the bar!

 

Until the next time!

 

Lars

[BudKarr]

Good Morning Captain Tom!

Well, well - what is this Activity on your original thread! Honestly did not think you would return to this site.

As I have read through some of the postings, it does not appear to have changed very much, aside from the chap over in the UK, insofar as interaction is concerned. The one-way dialogue so prevalent on these forums seems to be in vogue. One of the reasons I elected to stop frequenting as I got turned off by providing information only to have it ignored, especially when directed to a specific person. Well, that was then and this is now. Perhaps it will be better the second time around (as the song goes . . . )

Montreal is indeed a marvelous place to visit and in my travels throughout the Province, I have always enjoyed it. Of course it does help immensely to be fluent in both languages, but if not, one most times can navigate the restaurants, businesses and hotels without too much trepidation.

As far as railroading is concerned, I recall much activity at more than one locale in the city - Windsor Station comes to mind. However, today it all is rather focused within the Central Station of the CN building. That station is a grand place to visit and in spite of the fact that I am anything but a railroad fanactic, I have enjoyed my visits to the underground of Montreal.

Monteal's Central Station (Gare Centrale) (from: www.wikipedia.com)

 

See you back at "Our" Place - where interaction is the rule of thumb!

BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Some Pix of VIA Rail's "Ocean" approaching Montreal's Central Station while passing beneath Place Bonaventure . . .

Enjoy!

Tom

[morseman]

another great hotel, in Montreal for watching VIA action is the Hotel Bonaventure .  It's just across the street from Central Station  and has an underground passage to the station.   Get a room overlooking the station and it's a similar view as the Queen Elizabeth.  Close to Old Montreal     and you have to take a ride on Montreal's subway (the Metro) rubber tires.  The Bonaventure has a station at the Metro.    The Hotel has a heated swimming pool open all year and it's interesting swimming while there is a terrific snow storm going on.        Only problem  It's aa Hilton Hotel, so like the Queen Elizabeth it's quite pricy.     Anyways, drop in there and take the glass elevator to the top floor and the elevator overlooks VIA's tracks

[MStLfan]

Hi Rob,

Well, those Northlander cars look to be in a sorry condition!

Compare that to the cars now in Zwolle, the Netherlands. I started a thread but didn't get much response but that was before I discovered this thread.

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/888601/ShowPost.aspx

The photo's were taken in august.

greetings,

Marc Immeker

 

[LoveDomes]

G'day Captain Tom!

Don't believe I've seen your Renaissance pix over at the bar. They look good, in spite of all the things said about 'em. Of course, looks aren't everything, or so I've been told by more than one gal in my lifetime! <grin>

Even got Rob to drop in - perhaps we'll get this thing back in shape after all!

Here's a "classic" to enjoy . . . .

 

CN "Super Continental" at Jasper (1976)(from: www.trainweb.org) Photo: Chris Guenzler

 

See ya at the bar!

 

Lars

[siberianmo]

G'day DL!

A fortuitous opportunity in that I hadn't planned on browsing until much later on this day - however, here I am (again!) . . . .

The airport you will return to the UK from is in very close proximity to Halifax - so it shouldn't matter what hotel you stay at. Of course, it does pay to check which ones provide the shuttle service and so forth.

Undoubtedly there are scores of guides and the like (for a price) offering tips 'n more for the world traveler. I've found that using sites such as travelocity.com and expedia.com will provide you lots of information regarding not only places to stay but things to do and see as well - just a matter of "clicking" here 'n there, if you follow my drift.

Getting back to the downtown of Halifax - it really isn't that large insofar as the central portion is concerned and that's where the leading hotels are, along with some good places to dine.

Some Pix for you . . .

VIA Rail's Renaissance "Ocean" at Montreal's Central Station

 

VIA Rail's eastbound Renaissance "Ocean" at Moncton, NB

 

VIA Rails' eastbound Renaissance "Ocean" at Moncton, NB

 

These were taken before VIA decided to add the Park Car at the rear . . . many of us complained vehemently over the rather sterile "Ocean" without domes and who knows - maybe we instilled change. No matter - they came up with the gimmick I referred to earlier for the "tourist season."

Let me know if I may be of further assistance - and hope you'll stop by the bar for some chat 'n banter!

 

Tom (sbierianmo)

[DL - UK]

Thanks Tom, handy pictures are very helpful, much obliged to you. Certainly a big lump of a hotel - illustrates the days when the railway ran the world! As you say, it will tick the boxes (although some times an unmodernized hotel is good in the same way an unmodernized railway car is good - it keeps the atmosphere). Of course I need to consider a place handy for when I need to get to the airport too - as we fly back to UK from there. You can see my thinking - go east by train till you hit the sea and cut the time in the flying sardine can as far as possible (probably should have flown to AND from Halifax for this reason)!

Occurs to me that of course what we need here is a guidebook that meets the needs of the rail traveller - ie places to stay and places to eat within handy distance of rail stations the world over - with reveiws from users and maybe symbols like they have in such books, except symbols could inform you of things like 'good view over adjacent yards' etc etc. Maybe such a book or website exists already?

DL

[siberianmo]

G'day!

DL - very pleased to know that your trip arrangements are falling nicely into place. I would've been greatly surprised had VIA not honored your requests. Now all you need to do is board the train and enjoy!

I see Rob has paid a visit to a Thread that he was most familiar with some time ago. Not certain if we're really "back" - but let's give it a go. "Ground rules" page 1 still apply . . . Nice Pix by the by and figured the subject of "TEE" trains would get you back here! See ya at the bar!

Also, nice Pix from Lars! Should evoke some conversation - one would think . . . .

DL - you may find these Pix to be helpful . . .

VIA Rail Station, Halifax, Nova Scotia

 

Westin Hotel adjacent to VIA Rail Station, Halifax, NS

 

Westin Hotel adjacent to VIA Rail Station, Halifax, NS

 

The Westin in Halifax is an older hotel, but has been modernized (a couple of times). It is within walking distance of the downtown center, however there are other hotels much more convenient. All depends on what you want to do and how much time you'll spend in Halifax. By all means take the ferry across to Dartmouth. It's a great opportunity to view the harbor.

Can't give you first hand info on the hotels in that we stay with family when in Halifax, however, you won't go "wrong" booking into the leading chains . . .

 

Enjoy!

 

Tom (siberianmo)

[DL - UK]

Just by way of an update on your suggestions and info Tom, I e-mailed VIA - they replied in less than 24 hours, confirmed we have a room forward facing and in the car next to The Park Car, so that all sounds good to me - and will put me in pole position for that Dome car both during the day and at night!

DL

 

[DL - UK]

Thanks Tom

Good advice - after my posting I did the obvious and did a museum search and the CRM came up - I do hope I can make a call there - public transportation seems to be bus based but the links on their site help. It looks like a good show.

Thanks also for the hotel tip - sounds great. My other half was delegated accomodation booking duty whilst I did travel planning. She has found a nice looking B&B but I doubt it has a comparable view - that is booked for our night of arrival but we have other nights in Montreal so your suggestion could be handy for that. I like to default to an old style railway hotel, if only for location reasons, so that must be the Queen Elizabeth in Montreal but when we checked this out it was a) pretty pricey and b) full,  so that ruled it out. Westin Nova Scotian seems to be the equivalent railway hotel in Halifax for the other end of the ride on The Ocean.

Interesting to see those TEE pics from ONR - I had no idea ex European stock had found its way on that service - sad to see the old cars in such vandalised condition. I wonder as I write if restored TEE vehicles are in European museums. They are stylish units. I have an uncle who lives in Toronto - I'd like to make a visit some day and take the ONR service. Again I'm diverting to topics probably best raised in the bar 'n grill.

Good wishes to you all.

DL