Thanks Tom (and thanks again Pathfinder)
Yep, I reactivated the post as I thought here is where I'll find people with good knowledge - indeed I have! I'm a subscriber to Classic Trains so it was my first port of call.
I checked out journey via www.seat61.com (if you have never seen this site you are in for a treat if you like steel wheel and steel rail travel). Done by a UK guy but has worldwide scope.
I wanted to travel Budd cars of course (who would not) but I confess being interested to go on an ex UK renaissance (last time I saw them was in sidings outside the now defunct Merto Cammell build plant here in UK before the whole channel night train project was aborted and they went into store) - I guess I'll be used to the small loading gauge as I'm a regular traveller on UK sleepers to Scotland and Cornwall.
In fact I did e-mail VIA customer services to find out if Stainless cars ran every day but they did reply quick to tell me it is Ren stock every day until Nov (what happens then - back to Stainless for the winter?). This is what led me to book Easterly to get access to The Park car - and then the delux upgrade was such little extra that I booked that too. It's not so expensive (probably only time I'll do the trip of course so can afford to splash out a bit and make the most of it) - just seems bad when you see a bargain price then when you book it is no longer there - if I'd never seen that price I'd never have thought more about it - just taken the hit and thought "well that is what I've got to pay".
Thanks for your tip about forward facing - I'm not too bothered as waking hours will probably be spent in the Park Car, but booking on web did mean I did not think I got the choice - what is your tip? Should I e-mail VIA with my booking code and ask for allocation forward facing (there are 2 of us by the way). I confess I was surprised during booking you got no choice option for such things (indeed I was surprised no query on diet since my partner is vegetarian and sometimes they need to know these things). Booking from overseas I have to pick up tickets at station, by which time I expect to find myself allocated whatever seats the computer decides. I also prefer a room in the centre of the car and not over the wheels (call me traditional...). Maybe as I'm paying top rate I should e-mail VIA and ask for what I want?
In UK I never book on line (unless a big saving) prefering to book at the station with staff who will override the reservation system to get the best seats (I don't want to end up with a seat with a window pillar and no view thanks very much) I have a list of best seats on the main types of UK rolling stock to make this task simple. I realise I'm sounding fussy, but you pay for the journey and I don't bury my head in a book (until darkenss falls) when there is scenery and trackside interest to watch out for!
Thanks for your input - as you can imagine - this is one journey I'm really looking forward to!
DL - UK
G'day!
Party time in the Park car's Mural Lounge or the Bullet Lounge or up in the Dome is "where it's at!" Now, signing off on one of the murals, well that's 'nother story. <grin>
For anyone who doesn't know and may have an interest, those artists (the "Group of Seven") that Tatans referred to are (were): Franklin Carmichael, Lawren Harris, A. Y. Jackson, Frank Johnston, Arthur Lismer, J. E. H. MacDonald, and Frederick Varley. These men were included within a larger group of artists who were commissioned to paint the distinctive murals in the Park cars.
Long live the Park cars!
Tom (siberianmo)
A Pix or two may rekindle the interest . . . .
courtesy: www.viarail.ca
Enjoy!
G'day Captain Tom!
Didn't realize that you were resurrecting your old thread so far away from the Classic Trains forums! Good to see ya "oooot 'n aboooot" and getting back into the swing of things once again.
That last post from Metro reminds me a bit of my first trip by rail into Canada. Was way back "when" as my dad took us on a round trip to Montreal. It was back in the late 40s and my memories are somewhat vivid and hazy at the same time.
We departed from the "Grand Lady" herself, Grand Central Terminal in New York City and had sleeping car accommodations. It was a long, long trip and it was a rather cold time of year, for I recall staring out of the windows at the snowy landscape zipping by the windows, along with the telephone poles! My brothers and I gave mom 'n dad a merry chase through the cars as we drove them, and probably everyone else, totally nuts! <grin>
Later on in life, during the emergence of Amtrak, I took the train to both Toronto and Montreal. No comparison, although I did enjoy the club cars! <grin> <double grin>
Isn't it a sad reality to realize that what once was, just isn't anymore As you know, but others may not - I'm a retired sailor - spent many years at sea as a "merchie." Those days and companies and ships are long, long gone along with all the attendant support industries as well.
Wish you well with your efforts over here and see ya back at the bar!
Until the next time!
Lars
A few Pix from a recent trip to Toronto and some riding of the rails . . . Metro might enjoy these, as they feature GO Tranist . . .
GO Transit ticket counter at Toronto's Union Station
GO Transit car at Union Station
GO Transit train (east bound) at Pickering Station
Thanks Tom
Public holiday w/e means I’ve been away from the computer so just read your post.
Thanks for those tips, they will all be handy. I’ll e-mail VIA re compartment location and see what they say.
We should not have too much problem with the ticket collection as we fly into Montreal about 2 weeks before our journey – It was my intention to go and check out the station geography then, and ask about getting our tickets. I’m relaxed about the language, as we get taught French in school and although I make no claim to speak it properly I can manage enough lines to get by! Other people I know who have visited the French part of Canada tell me we should manage OK!
The seating layout is typical of UK First Class – 2 on one side – 1 on the other. Shame the diner is not proper chef food – it should be really, and like you I prefer the old ways. If you want airline food – travel by plane!
Thanks also for the tips on the scenery. In fact the thing is, being in a foreign country almost anything you see is interesting. I found this out 5 years back first time I took a north American train journey since I was in Toronto with family and wanted to see friends in Chicago. Took me a while to persuade others that flying between the two was not required, we took The International train (no longer in the schedule I believe) and although it is not the most scenic of rides, it was still fascinating to observe the communities and country side en-route. A couple of years later my brother was working for a short period in Boulder – so on a visit I took the opportunity to go Denver – Emeryville and back on the California Zephyr. A great journey of course. This trip on The Ocean will be my first long distance Canadian journey. And first ever 'real' dome!
We will manage OK with the small room size, as UK sleeping cars are small inside and we tend to travel light anyway.
In fact I did not realise that the whole Renaissance vehicles needed re-build work on insulation – I know they were sold at a knock down price by UK govt. but after all that work one wonders if VIA did indeed get a bargain.
On a related matter you should start planning a UK visit – you are right – sleeper London – Scotland is a good journey – but with small distances here (and faster line speeds) you tend to leave London after dark and arrive at Scottish destination early morning. The Highland Sleeper runs north through Rugby (non stop at about 10pm) and then splits into three portions in Edinburgh in the early hours – 1 for Aberdeen, 1 for Fort William in the West Highlands, and 1 for Inverness. The latter 2 are the most scenic and the Fort William one arrives mid morning so in summer plenty of daylight to view this highly scenic Highland journey.
A classic summer trip would be: north from London to Fort William on over night sleeper which connects into Fort William to Mallaig scheduled summer only daily steam hauled service. From Mallaig take ship to Isle of Skye and bus to place to stay on the island for a few days. Then bus off Isle of Skye to Kyle of Lochalsh where take train on highly scenic route to Inverness. Stay in Inverness (or at least take evening meal in Inverness) – then take overnight sleeper back to London. Do this mid June to get benefit of longest daylight hours. Run this itinerary past your Missouri based Rugby born friend and see what he thinks!
The reason you need to plan your journey before too long is these overnight services are under continual low level threat of withdrawal (something you north Americans must live with all the time of course). The stock was built by British Rail in the early 1980s and is still in good condition. Many routes were scrapped in the run up to privatisation in the 1990s and many sleeping cars withdrawn at that time. Current operators run minimal services with no spare stock (so on busy holiday weekends they can not extend the trains, so they do not promote the service as they can’t cope with demand). The original chunnel night train plan was scrapped before it was ever tested out, and this meant there is no chance of new generation sleeping cars for UK services. When the powers that be decide the 1980s sleeper cars are ‘life expired’ no new ones will be built – it will be used as an excuse to withdraw the service. That will not happen yet, but it is hard to see the service still in existence in 10 years time. As a result I try to take a couple of UK sleeper journeys each year whilst I can.
I’m digressing from the forum topic, but I hope I’ll be excused.
DL
G'day DL!
My name is Lars (LoveDomes) and I just read your posting . . . I think you may find some interesting conversation along with similarities of experiences over at Tom's bar 'n grill on the Classic Trains forums - General Discussion. It's called "Our" Place and is a cyber bar 'n grill - lots of great interaction - adult conversation and humor - wonderful material and photos. Hope you get the chance to stop by - we're hospitable, but rather structured. Check us out, you may like what you see!
You struck a positive note with the mention of the "California Zephyr" at one time America's premier dome train. To this day, even under Amtrak's operation, we try to make one annual round trip to the left coast. Lately we fly from New York City (where I reside) to Chicago, then embark upon our journey to the Pacific. Wonderful scenery - but alas, things have changed as Amtrak's budget and maintenance seems to dwindle into the abyss.
Had one marvelous rail experience in the UK some years back. I used to sail the 7 seas as a "merchie" and had some time while in Portsmouth/Southampton. Took a rail sojourn northward - got totally snokered (as opposed to snookered) when I hooked up with a couple of Brit sailors who were bound 'n determined to "show me" the sights. Must've been a wonderful time.
Must agree with Tom though, the best of North American passenger rail travel is in Canada aboard Via Rail! They still do it right and their long distance trains are simply grand experiences. Best to you on your voyage to Nova Scotia!
Nice to have "met" you and hope to see ya over at the bar!
Hello DL,
Glad you found my Post and that the info will be of use.
I see my friend, Lars, has been here today and seized the moment to invite you over to "Our" Place. Won't add anything to that which he provided other than to say, you're most welcome to stop by.
The reference to the Isle of Skye brings to mind some very fond memories. No, I haven't ever been there - but for a time in my family, one would have thought we had. The family pet was a Skye Terrior - a great loving dog who was indeed a rare find. That began a bit of research to find out just where he originated - which of course led to all kinds of interesting facets and facts about Scotland and the Isle.
Have always had a fascination with and for the trains of Great Britain and one day hope to take advantage of a trip or three! And yes, I understand the looming threat of discontinuance with the overnight travel . . . we here in the states live with that all of the time. Even in Canada there has been more than cursory talk of eliminating the long distance trains and going more to a point-to-point system with overnights in hotels. The spiraling costs of staffing those trains, maintaining them and providing the amenities expected by those who can afford to ride them would gag a healthy maggot.<grin>
I shall run that itinerary by my friend, Pete from Rugby, and should you visit us at "Our" Place - perhaps you two will have a chance to "meet." Thanx!
The California Zephyr of old was "THE" train to take, amongst several others when crossing the continent. I'm very partial to "The Canadian" when operated by the Canadian Pacific but alas, never had the pleasure. My wife and I have crossed Canada on 4 trips aboard VIA Rail's version - "Canadian" (dropped the "the" - for whatever the rationale!). Anyway, it's a wonderful experience as will be your trip to Nova Scotia. Dome travel is most enjoyable and one thing that always comes to mind is sitting up there at night. Watching the headlight "playing games" as it widens and narrows when approaching highway overpasses, or narrow passages, and tunnels is great fun. Yes, I think you will have a marvelous time of it.
Appreciate the response!
It is my first time on this post. Scanned the first 10 pages very quickly but did not see anything on the Ontario Northland. Are they still in business?
5 cars of the former Dutch / Swiss TEE service (running as Northlander in Canada) are now in the Netherlands to be restored.
greetings,
Marc Immeker
Thanks for that invite Lars, in fact I've just checked out 'Our' place following your and Tom's invitation and it was good to browse, being restrained as we English are I've not posted yet, but will be back.
I've e-mailed VIA to request forward facing seating and proximity to the Dome on The Ocean following your advice Tom, I'll see what they say - I see their e-mail booking confirmation allocated me to a car and a room automatically. Thanks also for your night time Dome visit tips. I won't miss that.
Your mention of Chicago reminds me of the pic in Classic Trains earlier this year from late 1960s of, I think, Hinsdale (or west Hinsdale) with a Burlington commuter service (correct me if I'm wrong) viewed from the air. I've given that edition to my parents as they lived in Chicago from 1964 - 1968 before I was born, and my mother commuted on that route from one of the adjacent stations into the City every day. Links with family friends from that time have taken me back to Chicago on a number of occasions and a few years back enjoyed riding some of the Metra routes around the City.
Last question - it occurs to me to ask if there are any locomotive sheds, car shops, depots etc with visibility from public locations in the Montreal area you chaps would recommend I take in whilst staying in the Montreal / Quebec City area? Any railroad / transportation museums in Quebec area I should take in? It is usually possible to squeeze such locations in to the sightseeing itinery.
All good wishes
Greetings DL!
While in the Montreal area, I highly recommend going to the Canadian Railway Museum at Delson-St. Constant. This URL should be of help to you and includes a map:
http://www.exporail.org/musee/musee_crm.htm
When we stay overnight in Montreal, we stay at the Montreal Marriott Chateau Champlain hotel located within walking distance of the Central Station (Gare Centrale). Anyway, the rear of the hotel overlooks the VIA Rail sheds and makes for some fascinating time watching the make up and break up of trains, etc. Just request a room overlooking the rail yards - say about the 8th floor or higher. That should do just fine. This URL may be of assistance:
http://marriott.com/property/propertypage/YULCC
Insofar as public places for viewing, my experiences in walking throughout the city have found that the higher the elevation, the better the view and they aren't all that accessible. Perhaps someone reading this may offer some inside scoop . . .
Can't help you with Quebec City.
We have a "regular" over at the bar who lives in Chicagoland (that's the "locals" reference) - anyway, he commutes using the Metra and has Posted some great Pix on our Thread over the past year or so. Chicago is a wonderful town for taking in the RRs - lots of activity there and in my opinion is one of the USAs finest places to visit, IF one enjoys big city life.
Glad you checked "us" out and hope we'll be seeing you as a 'customer' before too long . . .
Good to see ya again DL and am happy to know that you've peeked in the window over at "Our" Place - next time c'mon in. The bar is open Mon thru Sat - and we use Sundays for photo posting . . . I think you'll find us an intersesting lot.
Chicago is indeed a great city to browse and spend some time in - and that's coming from a New Yorker (Yawker!). <grin> Always have enjoyed our stays in the Windy City and find it still has a mid-western "air" about it - in spite of the demographic changes - massive changes indeed. But then again, what large city hasn't experienced that, huh
I have no current info regarding Montreal or the remainder of Quebec to share with you, but it appears Captain Tom has come to the fore. He's most dependable that way, as you'll soon discover.
Nice shot of the TEE, Captain Tom, and wouldn't it be something to board one of those ONR trains Several years back we had looked into taking their Polar Bear Express with a couple of the grandkids - but backed off because of the scheduling and difficulty in getting from here to there without incurring a 2nd mortgage on the house. <grin> Not the most accessible of places - but some interesting railroading to say the least.
CP FP9A #1416 (photo: Ted Ellis)
TurboTrain VIA Rail/CN (from: www.trainweb.com)
Good evening folks. Interesting to see this thread back up and running and a going concern again
DL-Nice to make your aqauintance.I'm one of Tom's barflies as well,so if the welcome mat ahsn't been thrown down enough yet, allow me to place it at your feet as well.I think you will enjoy your trip,gotta put a good word in for te how team as they say seeing as how the Great Dominion is my home country and all. I'll echo Tom however, if you can make that side trip out to the Delson Museum it will be very worthwhile.
Marc-There is two TEE's left in North Bay, both in dreadfull shape the city and a small group of musuem members are starting to restore them ( strictly for static display on the waterfront ). The ONR is still an intregal railway in the North of my province, with the Polar Bear express and the Little Bear mixed train still calling on all the isolated ( and roadless in some cases ) small towns up around Jame's Bay.Usual trains now consiost of the ONR's GP38-2's and the old single level Go transit cars that have been refurbished for intercity service.The Polar Bear will tack on a dome car for the summer to fall tourist season, and occationally the rebuilt F7A's will pinch hit as power on the train still. Here's a couple recent photo's I snapped in North Bay this past july.
Rob
Good advice - after my posting I did the obvious and did a museum search and the CRM came up - I do hope I can make a call there - public transportation seems to be bus based but the links on their site help. It looks like a good show.
Thanks also for the hotel tip - sounds great. My other half was delegated accomodation booking duty whilst I did travel planning. She has found a nice looking B&B but I doubt it has a comparable view - that is booked for our night of arrival but we have other nights in Montreal so your suggestion could be handy for that. I like to default to an old style railway hotel, if only for location reasons, so that must be the Queen Elizabeth in Montreal but when we checked this out it was a) pretty pricey and b) full, so that ruled it out. Westin Nova Scotian seems to be the equivalent railway hotel in Halifax for the other end of the ride on The Ocean.
Interesting to see those TEE pics from ONR - I had no idea ex European stock had found its way on that service - sad to see the old cars in such vandalised condition. I wonder as I write if restored TEE vehicles are in European museums. They are stylish units. I have an uncle who lives in Toronto - I'd like to make a visit some day and take the ONR service. Again I'm diverting to topics probably best raised in the bar 'n grill.
Good wishes to you all.
Just by way of an update on your suggestions and info Tom, I e-mailed VIA - they replied in less than 24 hours, confirmed we have a room forward facing and in the car next to The Park Car, so that all sounds good to me - and will put me in pole position for that Dome car both during the day and at night!
DL - very pleased to know that your trip arrangements are falling nicely into place. I would've been greatly surprised had VIA not honored your requests. Now all you need to do is board the train and enjoy!
I see Rob has paid a visit to a Thread that he was most familiar with some time ago. Not certain if we're really "back" - but let's give it a go. "Ground rules" page 1 still apply . . . Nice Pix by the by and figured the subject of "TEE" trains would get you back here! See ya at the bar!
Also, nice Pix from Lars! Should evoke some conversation - one would think . . . .
DL - you may find these Pix to be helpful . . .
VIA Rail Station, Halifax, Nova Scotia
Westin Hotel adjacent to VIA Rail Station, Halifax, NS
The Westin in Halifax is an older hotel, but has been modernized (a couple of times). It is within walking distance of the downtown center, however there are other hotels much more convenient. All depends on what you want to do and how much time you'll spend in Halifax. By all means take the ferry across to Dartmouth. It's a great opportunity to view the harbor.
Can't give you first hand info on the hotels in that we stay with family when in Halifax, however, you won't go "wrong" booking into the leading chains . . .
Thanks Tom, handy pictures are very helpful, much obliged to you. Certainly a big lump of a hotel - illustrates the days when the railway ran the world! As you say, it will tick the boxes (although some times an unmodernized hotel is good in the same way an unmodernized railway car is good - it keeps the atmosphere). Of course I need to consider a place handy for when I need to get to the airport too - as we fly back to UK from there. You can see my thinking - go east by train till you hit the sea and cut the time in the flying sardine can as far as possible (probably should have flown to AND from Halifax for this reason)!
Occurs to me that of course what we need here is a guidebook that meets the needs of the rail traveller - ie places to stay and places to eat within handy distance of rail stations the world over - with reveiws from users and maybe symbols like they have in such books, except symbols could inform you of things like 'good view over adjacent yards' etc etc. Maybe such a book or website exists already?
A fortuitous opportunity in that I hadn't planned on browsing until much later on this day - however, here I am (again!) . . . .
The airport you will return to the UK from is in very close proximity to Halifax - so it shouldn't matter what hotel you stay at. Of course, it does pay to check which ones provide the shuttle service and so forth.
Undoubtedly there are scores of guides and the like (for a price) offering tips 'n more for the world traveler. I've found that using sites such as travelocity.com and expedia.com will provide you lots of information regarding not only places to stay but things to do and see as well - just a matter of "clicking" here 'n there, if you follow my drift.
Getting back to the downtown of Halifax - it really isn't that large insofar as the central portion is concerned and that's where the leading hotels are, along with some good places to dine.
Some Pix for you . . .
VIA Rail's Renaissance "Ocean" at Montreal's Central Station
VIA Rail's eastbound Renaissance "Ocean" at Moncton, NB
VIA Rails' eastbound Renaissance "Ocean" at Moncton, NB
These were taken before VIA decided to add the Park Car at the rear . . . many of us complained vehemently over the rather sterile "Ocean" without domes and who knows - maybe we instilled change. No matter - they came up with the gimmick I referred to earlier for the "tourist season."
Let me know if I may be of further assistance - and hope you'll stop by the bar for some chat 'n banter!
Tom (sbierianmo)
Don't believe I've seen your Renaissance pix over at the bar. They look good, in spite of all the things said about 'em. Of course, looks aren't everything, or so I've been told by more than one gal in my lifetime! <grin>
Even got Rob to drop in - perhaps we'll get this thing back in shape after all!
Here's a "classic" to enjoy . . . .
CN "Super Continental" at Jasper (1976)(from: www.trainweb.org) Photo: Chris Guenzler
See ya at the bar!
Hi Rob,
Well, those Northlander cars look to be in a sorry condition!
Compare that to the cars now in Zwolle, the Netherlands. I started a thread but didn't get much response but that was before I discovered this thread.
http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/888601/ShowPost.aspx
The photo's were taken in august.
another great hotel, in Montreal for watching VIA action is the Hotel Bonaventure . It's just across the street from Central Station and has an underground passage to the station. Get a room overlooking the station and it's a similar view as the Queen Elizabeth. Close to Old Montreal and you have to take a ride on Montreal's subway (the Metro) rubber tires. The Bonaventure has a station at the Metro. The Hotel has a heated swimming pool open all year and it's interesting swimming while there is a terrific snow storm going on. Only problem It's aa Hilton Hotel, so like the Queen Elizabeth it's quite pricy. Anyways, drop in there and take the glass elevator to the top floor and the elevator overlooks VIA's tracks
Some Pix of VIA Rail's "Ocean" approaching Montreal's Central Station while passing beneath Place Bonaventure . . .
Tom
Good Morning Captain Tom!
Well, well - what is this Activity on your original thread! Honestly did not think you would return to this site.
As I have read through some of the postings, it does not appear to have changed very much, aside from the chap over in the UK, insofar as interaction is concerned. The one-way dialogue so prevalent on these forums seems to be in vogue. One of the reasons I elected to stop frequenting as I got turned off by providing information only to have it ignored, especially when directed to a specific person. Well, that was then and this is now. Perhaps it will be better the second time around (as the song goes . . . )
Montreal is indeed a marvelous place to visit and in my travels throughout the Province, I have always enjoyed it. Of course it does help immensely to be fluent in both languages, but if not, one most times can navigate the restaurants, businesses and hotels without too much trepidation.
As far as railroading is concerned, I recall much activity at more than one locale in the city - Windsor Station comes to mind. However, today it all is rather focused within the Central Station of the CN building. That station is a grand place to visit and in spite of the fact that I am anything but a railroad fanactic, I have enjoyed my visits to the underground of Montreal.
Monteal's Central Station (Gare Centrale) (from: www.wikipedia.com)
See you back at "Our" Place - where interaction is the rule of thumb!
BK in Alberta, Canada's beautiful high mountain country!
Here's a little something that may bring back a memory or three from those who have enjoyed the Montréal subway system . . .
Montréal Métro (photo credit: unknown)
Good to see ya, BK and catch y'all later over at the bar!
Thank you friends - another helpful hotel location - and some interesting metro details - rubber tired eh? - same as Paris - they export the technology no doubt - shame that VIA not been given budget to get the whole TGV concept off the ground just like France too - mind you they had to be kicking and screaming before the export to UK was sanctioned and even now it will not be built thru to London till next year!
I'll take a metro journey of course - but Metro does not serve the airport by the looks of it - what is it about transport planners not working this out (and you are not alone in North America I should add) - even London only had a rail link to Heathrow as an after thought and one to Gatwick as a co-incidence!
As for implied criticisms of this site I can't speak for earlier postings, but as I probably re started the thread I'll put on record my thanks to people who have given me handy tips which will enhance my trip and VIA travel - and if that is not in the spirit of internationalism I don't know what is. I'm very gratful. I'll report back on my return, and the place will be in the bar - then I can stand a round of drinks too!
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