CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

[siberianmo]

Well, I said 'goodbye' some time ago - but having seen morseman return from vacation and essentially keeping things moving along - as did trolleyboy before - I must say - well done.

I knew when this idea of mine was "born" that those of you with Canadian Passenger Railroading interests would come forth ...... and you have![tup][tup][tup][;)]

Now - that's great news about the ON Northland and their daylight scheduling. This is long overdue and most welcomed.

I've seen some commentary regarding VIA Rail's "Canadian" and the equipment being used. I can add that "change" is inevitable - no matter how much many of us won't like what eventually will happen - new equipment, or new "used" equipment. For now, enjoy the Budd stainless steel cars! Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."

I found some great information regarding VIA Rail's "Ocean" - at least I think it is "great." Beginning in May, they are going to add another complete consist of Budd stainless steel cars to the route - thereby making two round trips each way available to those of us who prefer the Budd equipment over the "Euro" - Renaissance - cars. Good move.

So, thanx to that move by VIA Rail - I'm booked on TWO roundtrips on the "Ocean" in May - one with my wife and one without! As long as they run 'em - I'll pay to ride 'em ....... Budd cars that is.[;)]

So - that should tell you that the "inventory" of Budd cars is still sufficient to accommodate those of us who appreciate them. But, it surely doesn't mean they will last indefinitely - we all know better than that.

By the way, thanx very much to those of you who have sent me e-mails over these past several weeks. I tried to explain, the best I could, why my decision was made - haven't changed my mind. However, I am very pleased to see that a "nucleus" of contributors remains who have no particular "agendas" to push ... this was and is supposed to be a thread to ENJOY! [tup][;)]

See y'all later ... don't know when though.

Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo)

[morseman]

Editorial in our local weekly newspaper today
Ontario Northland is embarking on a new adventure to travel
Its called customer service After years with little or no growth
in the number of paying passengers, the people running the
railway have finally figured out that changes are in order.
Starting Monday the train will be running un daylight hours.
The northbound will leave Toronto at 9am arriving in cottage
country around noon
and leaving during the afternoon avoiding the highway jams
on route 11 and 400.
the change should be an improvemnet & will no longer be
dropping off old ladies in the middle of the night at cold,
empty train stations in northern Ontario as it did on its
old schedule.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 440cuin

VIA Rail wants to run trains into the Hamilton TH&B station to terminate from Ottawa and Montreal. The trains now terminate at Aldershot and head further west to Hamilton Jct to wye the train wich is only 2 and a half miles from the TH&B station !!

Trains.com Newswire had a story about this last week. I am curious about it because I thought from information I read on this forum that VIA Rail's budget had been cut and service levels were going to be reduced. This seems like it is going in the other direction.

I wish VIA Rail would increase the frequency of the Canadian to Vancouver, at least from May to September. VIA Rail talked about adding a fourth weekly train during the summer a few years ago but nothing happened. Does VIA Rail even have enough equipment sitting around anymore to contemplate increasing the frequency?

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

the last I had heard is that they have applied for abandonment or sale. Railtex or another type may be interested.I haven't seen any mention in branchline about it for quite a while. They very well could have pulled up most of the track by now.I beleave most of the mines that they served with the line have closed so not much chance in reserecting it. Rob

I should have done a little more research before posting the question. After reading your response I checked out www.cn.ca and noticed that they show it as a shortline on their system map already. So I checked out RailAmerica's website and found that it has become part of their system of shortlines called Mackenzie Northern Railways. Interestingly enough CP Rail has operating information on their site that says trains operate into the North West Territories three days a week. I think it is an intriguing rail line and I would love to know more about its present day operations. It would be sad if it was eventually abandoned because its whole purpose was supposed to be to open up the north.

Too bad it didn't have any passenger trains. I once took a 24 hour train ride in Norway, north from Oslo to the end of the line because the train crossed the Artic Circle. It was fun to do, going to the Northwest Territories just because you could would be a similar type of experience.

[TH&B]

VIA Rail wants to run trains into the Hamilton TH&B station to terminate from Ottawa and Montreal. The trains now terminate at Aldershot and head further west to Hamilton Jct to wye the train wich is only 2 and a half miles from the TH&B station !!

What the problem realy is and why they delay in small extension to reach a downtown city I dont know. Somebody doesn't want it I guess. The track to the station is owened by CPRail, the rest is owend by CN.

[Junctionfan]

I heard VIA will be adding trains in Ontario. Where and when is this happening?

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

The territories have little to no rail service Yukon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service.

What is the status of the CN's former Great Slave Lake Railway into the Northwest Territories? (I know its not passenger but...) I had heard a few years ago that is was almost dormant.

the last I had heard is that they have applied for abandonment or sale. Railtex or another type may be interested.I haven't seen any mention in branchline about it for quite a while. They very well could have pulled up most of the track by now.I beleave most of the mines that they served with the line have closed so not much chance in reserecting it. Rob

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

If they ever build a causeway to PEI, will there be any possibility of restoring rail service?

Did anyone discuss standard gauging Newfoundland?

Hi Dave they did build tthe confederation bridge it's been open almost 8 yearsnow I think, all the rail is gone so it would be a rebuilding of the entire line.All the farmers use trucks for their produce to the mainland. I'm sure the standard guaging was discussed but again in the bean counters eyes(these were govt ones as CN and TERRA transport were crown corps at the time)said no way not enough freight rev or passenger rev. I can only imagine what the CN's bean counters would say about it now as they have shareholders to worry about. I figure that if the govt. pulls the plug theres not much hope private investers would have allowed it to flourish. sorry chateau different line The timbertrain discontinued two or three years ago i was just wondering if they had been part of the same company. Rob

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

The territories have little to no rail service Yukon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service.

What is the status of the CN's former Great Slave Lake Railway into the Northwest Territories? (I know its not passenger but...) I had heard a few years ago that is was almost dormant.

[morseman]

Quite a few folks from U>S> on this forum asking about taking
trips on Canadian trains and lookinf for info.

While in Philly my wife goes shopping and I spend several
hours in Borders coffee shop reading RR books and mags.
(I sometimes do spend a few bucks and buy a book)

I came across the following book with plenty of info for
those coming north this summer

TRANS CANADA RAIL GUIDE - trailblazer publications
3rd edition 2003 Author Melissa Graham
US price $16.95 Cda price $24.95

This is the first rail guide by an author in England
that I have found that has a good understanding of
railroads with plenty of pertinent information..

VIA timetable shows distances in kilometers
and shows CN division distances in miles
Excellent strip maps, RR historical facts,
city maps and guides & list of background reading

[morseman]

there is definitely no way that a rail line could be constructed on the confederation
bridge linking New Brunswick and PEI. It is 12,9 km long, built in spring of 1997.
A multispan concrete box structure. It is curved in the middle supposedly to
protect the eco system of the gulf of St.Lawrence & and also prevent accidents from
people dozing off when driving over a such a long stretch of straight road. During severe storms the bridge is closed and if you have fears of driving your car over it
There are personnel who will drive your car for you. IMy wife and I took a bus tour to PEI and had a lovely view from the bus over the bridge which you can't get by car cause of the high walls.

To answer your question....... No way could a rail line be put on the bridge.

[Junctionfan]

Does the PEI causeway have room or is structurally sound for a single rail line expansion? I don't know what kind of demand for rail is there but you never know. A rail ride on the confederation bridge is enough of a tourist attraction.

[morseman]

To: DAVE KLEPPER There is a bridge to PEI. The Confereration bridge Vehicle traffic only Doubt if rail service will ever be restored. I just got back from rail trip to fort Lauderdale and a cruise to Eastern Caribbean and now catching up on all the forum topics etc, You all will be hearing more from me shortly.

[daveklepper]

If they ever build a causeway to PEI, will there be any possibility of restoring rail service?

Did anyone discuss standard gauging Newfoundland?

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher
Has anyone here taken the Quebec Central tourist train recently ? Their web site is ... http://www.beaucerail.ca/

Is this the same outfit that used to run the "timber train" excursions from just out side of North bay to the Temiskaming paper plants in nor. Quebec?

Uhhh... no, Rob. [v]

The QCT does not run in Ontario (The Québec part of the name being quite indicative of its location). At one time, it linked Québec City to Sherbrooke via the Beauce region of Québec. Today, it runs tourist trains April through November (operating as Trains Touristiques de Chaudière-Appalaches) out of Vallée-Jonction (about 1hr south of Québec City) to as far south as Sherbrooke (depending on the type of excursion package).

[trolleyboy]

It's not fair but from the financial end there aren't enough people there to sustain a system.For instance the entire population of PEI is smaller than the city of Toronto.I imagine that if NFLD had not been narrow guage there may have been some drive ti maintain both freight and passenger service. When you think of how everything had to be ferried to the mainland and trucks swaped at both ends made for some heavy ca***o run the trains.The territories have little to no rail service Yulon has partial white pass service but from what I understand that's basically tourist type stuff.The VIA service to churchill is still the province of Manitoba but you could concuider that as partial North West Territory service. Bottom Line is we have less than 40 million people living here that makes for few train riders in some areas. I would say that we have a fairly well supported and thought out system. I myself would like to see fuller service but that's probably a few years off. VIA is somewhat not on the govt, radar as far as expanding service at the moment. Rob

[daveklepper]

Are there other provinces besides Newfy and PEI that have absolutely no common carrier rail service? Is this fair?

[trolleyboy]

All good questions Dave. I know that go has had some funding increases not to mention some physical plant improvements. More third track through the busy lakeshore line and new express service from Brampton and georgetown to Toronto Union. TTC's union from what i unnderstand has accepted the last offer so no strike(really good news) No funds for CLRV or ALRV improvements thopugh the shepard subway line really put them behind a fiancial 8 ball.TTC has now officially closed the old Wychwood car barn(They were only using it for storage) The overheads been removed from it (last month)Hopefully someone will save the building as it's an old Toronto railway caompany building dating from before WW1. Rob

[daveklepper]

I am certain there is still a lot more to be said, especially from our ex-CN friend. How did the ex-Chunnel equipment make it through this past winter? Did all the modifications work so there were no stuck doors, etc? Does VIA plan on keeping at least one set of the Ocean in classic Budd equipment? We have heard how budget problems are effecting TTC, but how about GO? What are TTC's current plans regarding their light rail (streetcar) equipment? Has any consideration been given to making the ALRV's (the articulated streetcars) handicapped compliant by installing low-floor center sections and making them some 25 feet longer with eight axles instead of six? (A lot of European systems are doing this, including the Coastal tramway in Belgium. It preserves the value of otherwise modern cars and increases capacity at low cost.) Can TTC install wheel-chair lifts, like San Francisco's MUNI uses, in the four-axle CLRV's? Where can the classic straight-side CC&F Canadian National lightweight cars still be found? Were any of these converted to head-end power? How do Newfoundland and PEI people feel today about their complete loss of all rail service? What is the latest with passenger revival on CN's PGE?

[trolleyboy]

Well everyone it looks as though this train has finally made it's last staion stop. Myself I'm sad to see it go. There has been a lot of fine information passed on between us. I was rather hoping that we could keep this going as we all seem to have been enjoying ourselves here sharing our train riding experiences. I hope to hear from and corespond with all of you still out there on the forum(s) Thank-you all for the good the bad and the ugly tails of riding the rails. Rob

[trolleyboy]

earle thanks for sharing that story. Like Dave I'd love to read of or at least hear some more of your rring stories.When you were working for the CN were you in passenger or frieght service?I remember hearing about the grey cup game speacials,and of coarse teh NHL teams used to always travel by train for their away games,it indeed was a different time.Hope to hear more from you soon. Rob

[daveklepper]

earxledward: You ought to write a book. If you cannot get anybody else to edit it, I will. I had over 40 technical papers excepted for publication and edited two books still being sold by the Audio Engineering Society, and I'd love to read your stories and make them available for others to enjoy.

Have you ever read "From the Cab" by Doug Riddell? It was availabe as a paperback and was not every expensive and easy to read. It would give you an idea of how to organize your life on the railroads to be interesting to readers.

[earledward]

I rode turbo class (coach) on the Turbo from Montreal to Toronto (on the day that the late Pope was arrving behind us ffrom Mtl to T.O) I asked the Conductor If i could walk through the train,he said yes.When I got to the domed power car I stoofd behind the engineers compartment for a minute( thats a no.no ),a gentleman who had a seat (right behind the glass that seperated the domed psgr area from the engineers)said he was going for some refreshments and invited me to use his seat...which I gladly did and rode up there for a couple hours.What a ride is was,we reached a speed of 118 mph..several mph's over what was authorized.When we met an opposing Turbo around Kingston we reduced speed to 70 mph because I was told meeting at full speed could cause problems...like blowing each other off the track..??????...
Want a leisurely trip take ? The Hudson Bay from Winnipeg to Churchill..sights along the way are different,as is life along the way and you will never forget the friendly NORTH.I was born in a railway station,lived in my brithplace for 16 years,then went to work for CN for 40 years and have model railroad of HO 3,000 feet of track and G of 150 feet of track ( just building)I can tell you lot of stories about psgr trains from the FOOTBALL SPECIALS to Emporer Hallie Salasie' (spelling) special
I see the world through the spoke of the driving wheels of a steam engine...it is a lovely sight..when steam ended you know what else ended!The world was so different then....what we have now is a need for speed society.

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

It is hard not to legislate them back to work when such an essential service is involved and it can negatively affect the rest of the economy. In these situations there has to be a better way to solve the problem.

While I agree that a forced return to work is likely inevitable due to theimportance of the system.It seems that it's not the most fair and equitable way to go about it.However there may be light at the end of the tunnel yet as they have agreed to sit down and talk again tomorrow,here's hoping that it can still be avoided. What I'm hearing is that they are close but have a few major hurdles to still overcome.The retirees and the serving members are concered about the solvency of their pention plan and the possibility of some mainntenance jobs being farmed out.As it stands subway track/car work and streetcar manitenance ans well as track maintenance arestill performed by the employees. They lost the bus maintenance in the last contract.Unfortunatly like alot of transportaion systems the budget keeps getting smaller even though rudership is getting heavier and more route and more numerous runs are required(with a lessor workforce).Heres to keeping the old fingers crossed that this is resolved before the strike happens monday morning.Dave i haven't been able to come up with anymore info on the calgary / Edmonton transit plans. Perhaps onr of our west coast submitters has some first hand closer tto the soarce info. Junctionfan have you heard anymore mention of more and more numerous VIA service to the penninsula? I'm wondering if you will get another train each way with Amtrak'c likely demise on the close horrizon? Rob

[andrewjonathon]

It is hard not to legislate them back to work when such an essential service is involved and it can negatively affect the rest of the economy. In these situations there has to be a better way to solve the problem.

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chateauricher

Has anyone here taken the Quebec Central tourist train recently ? Their web site is ... http://www.beaucerail.ca/

Is this the same outfit that used to run the "timber train" excursions from just out side of North bay to the Temiskaming paper plants in nor. Quebec?Also on a bad note it looks like the TTC is going through with a strike come Sunday midnight.Hopefully it will resolve quickley as Toronto without the TTC running can be an absoloute nightmare to navigate.I remember the last strike and the few days they were off were nasty.I hope however for the operators sake that they just don't get legislated back to work like the last time.They ended up being forced to take a fairly bad contract. Rob

[trolleyboy]

Hi Dave not entirly sure mind you I supose that Bombardier could very well come up with a made in Canada mu set to run intercity as well. I often wondered what is easier to maintain overhead or third rail. I'm guessing that third rail is likely easier and possibly cheaper to build but Praire winters might play havoc with them.I know that alot of the Canadian interurban systems would mix street and radial equipment on the same system as well. NS&T for one and the early versions of the TTC when they first formed in the twenties they had the North York Radial and Toronto suburban districts which were interurban by nature.I do hope the system is built. I know that some of the public in Calgary complain about their existing system as costing too much to run as it is, but the added revenues of moving people between the two cities may well become a cash cow. Time i suppose will tell. Rob

[daveklepper]

Many European systems interurban networks through routed with urban tram and subway systems. Some have been around for a long time, like the interubans between Colone (Koln) and Badden, and between Manheim and Heidelburg (narrow gauge but quite modern), and others are new, some using dual current equipment with through operation of main line railroad tracks as well as operation on the street in certain of the towns. The latter was pioneered by Karlsruhe, but was old hat in heydey of the trolley and interurban lines in the USA. Connecticut Company regular streetcars used to operate under trolley wire on certain NYNH&H branchlines. In one case, Saaurbruken, Germany, a narrow gauge town tram system (streetcars) has a third rail on one line so a regional standard-gauge diesel hourly suburban service can operate past the Hochbanhoff (main railway station) to the center of the business district. I believe this regional diesel rail service has been extended across the border into Czokoslovakia.

Certain of the light rail car manufacturers, the Swiss Stadler Company for one, have catalogued options that include retention toilets and food facilities, so a system can standardize on one kind of car with different interiors for local and intercity service.

[trolleyboy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

I saw the rail system in Calgary last summer but I am curious how would extending it to Edmonton work? How fast would it go? Is it capable the speeds necessary to attract long distance riders? Wouldn't they need to upgrade the cars for the trip between the two cities? Light rail cars are usually okay for suburban travel but I can't imagine spend several hours on them.

They would have to purchase some of the newer German mu cars. Likely from duwag or seimens. These cars are capable of fairly hi speed 70-100 km. The use of the higher speed equipment will certainly require a dedicated well built piece of track.I'm guessing that not all of the bugs have been worked out of the plan yet.They would need to make sure that they have restroom facilities on board with holding tanks as well.It should be a good system if it's completed but we will have to wait and see. Rob

[andrewjonathon]

I saw the rail system in Calgary last summer but I am curious how would extending it to Edmonton work? How fast would it go? Is it capable the speeds necessary to attract long distance riders? Wouldn't they need to upgrade the cars for the trip between the two cities? Light rail cars are usually okay for suburban travel but I can't imagine spend several hours on them.