CANADIAN PASSENGER RAILROADS - Let's talk! BYOB ........

[siberianmo]

Canadian Rail Journey, Part I

The first leg of my Canadian rail journey began on May 5th aboard VIA Rail’s “Ocean” bound for Halifax, Nova Scotia. Departing Montreal’s Central Station at 6:30 PM, the 12 car consist of Budd stainless steel cars slowly made its way across the St. Lawrence Seaway by way of the Victoria Jubilee Bridge (a unique rail and highway structure with a turnout and separate span over part of the Seaway). Train #14 was powered by two F40PH’s, 6419 leading and 6418 trailing.

The train consist included a baggage car, three coaches, a Skyline dome car, a dining car, five Chateau series bedroom cars and a Park car (Revelstoke Park).

Over the years, prior to getting underway, my wife and I have made a habit of sitting in the dome of the Park car, simply to take in the sights and sounds of the lower level of Montreal’s Central Station. Montreal’s commuter trains, some electrified and others not made frequent departures along with VIA Rail’s corridor trains (LRC and Renaissance). Before we realized it, the train effortlessly began to move forward. Soon, the daylight enveloped the train and our long awaited journey “home” began.

NOTE: On previous pages, commentaries included questions regarding catenaries at Montreal's Central Station. They ARE there - on the left side approaching Place Bonaventure. Montreal's "AMT" commuter trains enter the station at either side - electrified to the left, diesel F40PH's to the right.

As has been our practice, we booked a double bedroom – “D” – in the Park car, which for those who may not know, is the double with the most floor space. Our attendant, Claude, is an old timer and very much into ensuring that his passenger’s needs are attended to promptly and courteously. I should add that he stocked an adequate supply of Mr. Alexander Keith’s fine Pale Ale from Halifax, thereby putting my mind at ease regarding that aspect of my rail pleasures.

With a fair sky and receding sun, our train picked up speed and before too long, Montreal’s skyline was but a series of bumps on the rear horizon. One more pale ale, then off to the dining car.

Generally we begin our evening meal at the Drummondville station stop – about an hour and one half from Montreal. This evening was no different. We noticed straight away that the menu had been trimmed quite a bit, with only two entrees offered and NO chowder listed. This was quite a surprise and we wondered aloud what had happened. The reply was along the lines that VIA Rail had decided to make several changes to Easterly Class and the dining car service, all designed to save them dollars. While that strategy makes no sense to me, apparently the “bean counters” think otherwise. I should note that the dining car was very crowded and we had about a 15 minute wait for a table.

I don’t think that a trip with VIA Rail has ever resulted in our not meeting someone new and this particular journey was no different. There’s just that little something – no – big something that fosters the atmosphere for conversations to begin. A couple of more train travelers have been added to the “list” of people with whom communications will be maintained. That’s just the way it is. Try that out on an airplane!

One of the treats to take advantage of aboard the “Ocean” is sitting in the Park Car’s dome. These domes accommodate 24 people and at times the seats are all full. I particularly like it when there’s no one else there, especially at night, as the sights of signal lights, illuminated structures and the loco’s headlight play games with the shadows of the night. If you have never experienced this, it may be a bit difficult to envision. Daylight affords the opportunity of viewing the full train from the rear along the roof lines. Night time gives yet another perspective. It’s all part of the ‘wonder’ of train travel and something that will be sorely missed once the Budd stainless steel cars give way to “Renaissance” and the “Euro” cars.

After breakfast in the dining car, we returned to the Park Car dome and remained there until our long stop at Moncton, NB. This is where the loco’s get refueled and other matters get attended to. Scheduled for a 20 minute stop, we were off and running in 10. The train was a bit behind in schedule.

The track along the route between Campbellton, NB and Moncton, NB was a bit on the rough side – square wheel effect. This is attributable to the New Brunswick East Coast railroad’s inability to maintain the track in the condition that CN had done over the years they owned it. A rough ride for those in the diner, for sure. CN routes their freights along a different right of way, thereby giving VIA Rail almost exclusive access to that length of track. We didn’t see one moving NBEC freight during the trip. Many of the cars and loco’s we did see still had CP or CP Rail markings showing beneath the freshly painted NBEC livery.

Perhaps the most scenic portion of the trip is between Amherst, NS and Truro, NS where the track is pretty much located on the ridge line of the mountains (hills to those of you from the west coast!). Just wonderful scenery and good track most of the way. The westbound “Ocean," Train #15 from Halifax, passed us on the left side as we approached Truro. Those “Renaissance” cars just don’t look “right” to me and it’s going to take some time to get used to seeing them. Anyway, my guess is that they were waiting for us in a passing siding, as we were running about 20 minutes behind schedule.

The run from Truro into Halifax takes about 90 minutes and on this particular Friday, it was true to form. Some very pretty countryside and lots of lakes to enjoy as the “Ocean” sped onward to our final stop. Approaching the town of Bedford (now part of the “new” greater Halifax) I snapped yet another photo of “Mom’s” house – situated between the tracks and the water of Bedford Basin. Each time we make this round trip, two more photo’s get added to the collection. One day, I’ll assemble them, put them into a collage arrangement, and ship ‘em off to “Mom.” It’s only been 15 years worth ……..

Hugging the shoreline of the Basin and Halifax Harbor (Harbour) the “Ocean” wound its way past container freights and assorted cars waiting for assembly into outbound trains. We arrived at the station about 20 minutes late – which as far as I’m concerned is on time. Off to the platform and picture taking, while my bride patiently waited, wondering, “Why does he do this every time?”

VIA Rail did it again – delivered us safe and happy to the beginning of what would turn out to be a wonderful week of trains, ships and a War Museum.

To be continued ……….

See y’all now 'n then! [tup] [;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[trolleyboy]

Hello everyone. I don't know if any of you had deard but the old CP orangeville subs new shortline(run by candu) has started up a dinner train. Couple old cp business cars and an open observation private car. Not a bad little operation.Also looks like go transit is getting 25 new cars and possible a couple of new locomotives as well. I'm guessing in anticipation of the heavier Georgetown and Barrie runs. Rob

[trolleyboy]

Not a problem Tom make sure you enjoy your rail trip as well.I don't know if anyone noticed or not but VIA has made a few route changes along the corridor. I've noticed that the Sarnia Trains do not originate from London anymore. Looks like they are leaving a train set in London and running one less train in each direction.Also from my Brantford location we only have one train that will conect past Toronto now. The 9am which goes through to Montreal making all the in between stops. It will be interesting to see if the adding of the extra Budd cars to the ocean will make the new euro-equipment wonder beyond the TO/Montreal and east routes. Rob

[siberianmo]

Hey Rob ...... regarding your comments about communicating to those who make decisions in government, your are so correct.

In a very recent post of mine on this thread [page 14] is bit of discussion regarding joining organizations such as Transport2000Canada ....... this one appears to be quite effective in getting heard by those in Ottawa on transportation issues across the board. There's little doubt about my renewal and hope others recognize that simply griping to one another on forums such as this does nothing ..... communicating and belonging, now that's another matter.

By the way, thanx for the Email(s) ..... I'll be looking for those photo's upon our return. Enjoy YOUR trip as well.

See ya! [tup] [;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[trolleyboy]

VIA prices do need to come down if we are to get better and more complete inter ciyt/province passenger service.One thing that is needed is more dedicated VIA track once you remove the constant interuption of frieght trains then one can think of increasing the number of trains offered. We must remeber though that VIA is a crown corperation not a private company so we must tell our local MP's and MPP's (iof you are Canadian) that we want this as an environmental and transportaional requirement. Till they know the need is there we won't see any increase in VIA's budgets. Rob

[siberianmo]

Here's a couple of photo's taken by a friend of mine very recently while in Newfoundland (Corner Brook) - "preserved" from narrow gauge days ...
[CLICK TO ENLARGE]





The first is the "Newfie Bullet" and the second needs no further ID .......

See ya now and then! [tup] [;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[chateauricher]

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

QUOTE: chateauricher Posted: 27 Apr 2005, 00:44:34
PS : I updated my profile to include a signature. However, I don't see it in any of my postings. Can others see it ? If so, why can't I ? How can I see it (other than in the "preview" section) ?

Hate to ask the obvious, but do you have the block checked to the right of "Options" that states, "Check here to include your profile signature."?

Yes, I have. Several times. I go in and uncheck then recheck that box and I make sure I save the changes. But still nothing. [:(] Anyone got any suggestions ?

[VerMontanan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon

Some interesting news from the Transport Canada 2000 newsletter, I'll have to look into membership. I travelled (by car) from the Calgary via Banff to Vancouver last year and while there are lots of freight trains it is sad to see the Banff train station and know that a "real" passenger train doesn't stop there anymore. Of course it would be equally sad if the Canadian was switched back to the original line and there were no longer passenger trains running through Jasper anymore. The best outcome would be if they ran the Canadian on the CP's route three days a week and on CN's three days a week. As the Transport BC 2000 article that I referenced earlier in this thread pointed out there should be sufficient demand (at least in the summer) because until the 1990 cutbacks there VIA was regularly sold out far more trains than would even be available with the increased service.

.
Several years ago, VIA proposed running a train from Vancouver to Calgary on the CP route. I thought this would be great...the scenery is certainly incomparable, and it could lead to reinstatement of the service east of Calgary, something desired by many. The operators of the Rocky Mountaineer service had the political clout to put an end to this proposal; also stopped was was a plan to operate the "Canadian" six days per week between Vancouver and Jasper. At the time, I thought that it was truly unfortunate that the private operator of a tourist train could have so much influence and possibly deprive residents of the opportunity for intercity rail passenger service. It doesn't bother me as much anymore. While you lament that Banff isn't served by a "real" passenger train, there's little evidence that a "real" passenger train would be in place if VIA reinstated service, especially the way they operate the "Canadian" now: three days per week service, astronomically high fares, especially in summer, poor or non-existent station facilities, and a ridiculous 48-hour advance notice for boarding rule at many locations. Since the current "Canadian" operation between Vancouver and Jasper has little more utility than the "Rocky Mountaineer" on the same route, logic would dictate that a VIA operation to Banff/Calgary would be the same; therefore I've come to the conclusion that if a private operator wants to run a tourist train instead of a government agency, this indeed makes the most sense.

QUOTE: Originally posted by andrewjonathon
By the way, Transport BC 2000 also pointed out that one reason the train services mostly tourists is that with so few seats available in the summer months when locals do most of their the tour companies often buy all available tickets several months in advance. Locals people tend to purchase their tickets closer to their travel dates and by that time there is often nothing available. An interest suggestion anyway.

.
Well, Transport 2000 should then be questioning the 48-hour advance-notice boarding policy, that the "Canadian" operates often with but one coach in the winter (and two, maybe three in the summer), and last-minute fares are significantly higher than Greyhound, which is a competitor between Vancouver and Winnipeg. I think it's pretty obvious that VIA doesn't care about local traffic on this route. The only possible thing that would make me think otherwise is that I have read where they are going to construct a new pre-fabricated station at Hinton, Alberta, which is contrary to their policy of providing minimal or no station facilties at unstaffed stations. Other than this one glimmer of hope, I think that VIA is hoping to eliminate most stops at unstaffed stations (at least west of Winnipeg) in the future.

[Junctionfan]

Isn't Alaska still under narrow gauge?

If not, I wonder what Amtrak and VIA train names would be used for the Alaska Corridor?

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: andrewjonathon Posted: 28 Apr 2005, 21:49:10
Some interesting news from the Transport Canada 2000 newsletter, I'll have to look into membership.

I travelled (by car) from the Calgary via Banff to Vancouver last year and while there are lots of freight trains it is sad to see the Banff train station and know that a "real" passenger train doesn't stop there anymore. Of course it would be equally sad if the Canadian was switched back to the original line and there were no longer passenger trains running through Jasper anymore.

The best outcome would be if they ran the Canadian on the CP's route three days a week and on CN's three days a week. As the Transport BC 2000 article that I referenced earlier in this thread pointed out there should be sufficient demand (at least in the summer) because until the 1990 cutbacks there VIA was regularly sold out far more trains than would even be available with the increased service.

By the way, Transport BC 2000 also pointed out that one reason the train services mostly tourists is that with so few seats available in the summer months when locals do most of their the tour companies often buy all available tickets several months in advance. Locals people tend to purchase their tickets closer to their travel dates and by that time there is often nothing available. An interest suggestion anyway.

I like your idea of running the "Canadian" three times per week on CN tracks and three more on CP's. Sounds great! But will it "fly"? Probably not in the foreseeable future. Wonder if "they" would consider running it one-way on CN's tracks and the return on CP's? Oh well, always "fun" to figure out how someone else should run their businesses (and that's what it is, can't forget that .......).

Not stopping in Jasper would break my aging heart .... love that place.

I've found T2000 Canada worth the few bucks I give 'em annually. I'm not the sort who goes around chasing windmills and advocating for hopeless and lost causes - really not. But this organization gets heard in the "right" places - so my contributions get "me" heard too.

See ya![tup][;)]

QUOTE: OnHarry Posted: 28 Apr 2005, 23:04:13
I can't believe that VIA is as successful in the Windsor, Quebec city corrider. I just priced a trip for the love of my life and myself to go to Montreal from London, and return, and doing so more than seven days in advance, so I would not be penalized for that. I got the second from the cheapest fare available and guess what it will cost if I actually book it.

$609. including all taxes. You know if the government got serious about rail travel and getting cars off the highways, they could probably run hourly between major points in this area and fill the trains. The price is very high in my opinion, as even at today's inflated gas prices I could drive it much cheaper and spend my money on the weekend in Montreal rather than the train ride.

Rant over.

I just ran a reservation request on VIA Rail's site for a trip between London and Montreal (leaving on May 2nd in the morning - returning on May 24th in the afternoon). Costs for two adults in VIA1 class came to $1044.32 (CDN) - no joke! Good Gawd Gertie - who can afford that?!

Now the same reservation for coach came to $642.00 (CDN) ... still ridiculous.

I agree with you about getting "serious" over putting people into trains and out of cars ..... same thing goes on even moreso where I'm living.

I'm traveling with my wife to Halifax next week. We're taking the "Ocean" from Montreal - two of us in a double bedroom costs us just about half of the VIA1 fare quoted above. Now of course, those reservations were made a long time ago .... but still, that's an amazing difference.

You are entitled to a rant, now and then![}:)]

See ya![tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[OnHarry]

I can't believe that VIA is as successful in the Windsor, Quebec city corrider. I just priced a trip for the love of my life and myself to go to Montreal from London, and return, and doing so more than seven days in advance, so I would not be penalized for that. I got the second from the cheapest fare available and guess what it will cost if I actually book it.

$609. including all taxes. You know if the government got serious about rail travel and getting cars off the highways, they could probably run hourly between major points in this area and fill the trains. The price is very high in my opinion, as even at today's inflated gas prices I could drive it much cheaper and spend my money on the weekend in Montreal rather than the train ride.

Rant over.

[andrewjonathon]

Some interesting news from the Transport Canada 2000 newsletter, I'll have to look into membership. I travelled (by car) from the Calgary via Banff to Vancouver last year and while there are lots of freight trains it is sad to see the Banff train station and know that a "real" passenger train doesn't stop there anymore. Of course it would be equally sad if the Canadian was switched back to the original line and there were no longer passenger trains running through Jasper anymore. The best outcome would be if they ran the Canadian on the CP's route three days a week and on CN's three days a week. As the Transport BC 2000 article that I referenced earlier in this thread pointed out there should be sufficient demand (at least in the summer) because until the 1990 cutbacks there VIA was regularly sold out far more trains than would even be available with the increased service.

By the way, Transport BC 2000 also pointed out that one reason the train services mostly tourists is that with so few seats available in the summer months when locals do most of their the tour companies often buy all available tickets several months in advance. Locals people tend to purchase their tickets closer to their travel dates and by that time there is often nothing available. An interest suggestion anyway.

[siberianmo]

G'day all,

How many of you "celebrated" the 50th anniversary of Canadian Pacific's "The Canadian" on April 24th? This iconic western transcontinental Budd domeliner has suffered many changes over the years, but still operates as VIA Rail's "Canadian," no longer on CP trackage, but thrice weekly on CN right-of-way. Still a great trip and still the only domeliner south of Alaska in North America (not talking about excursion trains!).

Just got my Transport 2000 Canada newsletter and it contains some up to date info regarding - well, transportation! Anyway, since this topic is supposed to be about Canadian Passenger Railroads - here's some "stuff" to ponder:

Appears to be a groundswell building to bring VIA Rail to the original CPR mainline from Winnipeg to Vancouver (through Brandon, Regina, Moose Jaw, Calgary). Anyone's "guess" regarding the eventual outcome ... but this idea is alive and well.

VIA Rail annouced expanding its Ontario service west of Guelph on it's north main line. Making some folks happy who commute between London, Kitchener, Waterloo, Guelph, Stratford, St. Marys and Sarnia. This new expansion takes place in May.

Two extra stops have been added at the Trenton VIA Rail junction. A daily stop for the Ottawa to Toronto train (9:01 PM) along with a Sunday stop for those traveling into Toronto. Previously, they had to board at Belleville or Cobourg.

An overwhelming majority of survey respondents (90%) feel that trains are the safest and most environmentally friendly way of moving goods and 72 percent indicate that freight trains are best for society overall, compared to the alternatives. Regarding intercity passenger and commuter rail services: a clear majority believe these are the best choices to "reduce environmental impact, improve public safety and enhance benefits to society." [from T2000]

The B.C. - Alaska Rail Line topic included a rather informative column. Much has been posted on this thread ...... "Transport Minister Jean Lapierre has agreed to federal participation in a preliminary reveiw of the proposed 1,800 km railway, seen by Alaskans as a key route for shipping resources to the lowe 48 states and by Canadian proponents as an unfinished branch of the national dream."

Called by many, the "last transcontinental railroad," there now is a clear commitment from the U.S. governmetn, sate of Alaska and the Yukon to get moving with this study. All that was needed over the years was support from Ottawa - which now has been obtained.

According to T2000, B.C. has shown limited enthusiasm for extending one of the provinces northern lines to meet the proposed track coming south. However, they are in support of a financial study to determine costs and benefits.

By the way, my only connection with T2000 Canada is my membership. I recommend it for those of you with similar interests ..... check them out at www.transport2000.ca

Okay ...... that's it for me.

See y'all now and then![tup][;)]

Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo)

[OnHarry]

WOW.

Have not been around for a bit as I assumed that the thread would die, but it hasn't and good.

Back in the 1960's when CN was still trying to get more passenger service they actually did a sort of barnstorming tour with the Tempo equipment. They brought it to Brantford, and other cities and parked it for a few days, and actually advertised in the local papers for everyone to come and see the new equipment. It looked great, but the previous poster was right, they rode like a lumberwagon on a downhill run, as my father used to say. Hated to see them when I was traveling to or from Toronto. The sound insulation wasn't so hot either.

Another thing along the same line that CN did at the time, when they started running the RDC's on the Windsor Toronto corrider, probably in lieu of the International Limited I am not sure, they did the same thing with them, advertiseing, free tours, ballons for the kids.

Glad to see the place is still here and I promise to pay more attention.

[passengerfan]

When driving truck to Alaska a few years back there was talk then about running a railroad from the lower 48 to Alaska. The most practical right of way discussed then was close to the Alcan highway. I see the previous study that was already paid for will be again ignored. Typical government. The one proposal I was surprised at before was talk of a twelve mile tunnel that would save about forty track miles and some severe grades otherwise. I believe this study was conducted about 1980. One of the points made in this earlier study was that running close to the Alcan they could lay track from multiple starting points and it would be easier to supply the track laying crews with the essentials for living. There was even talk as I recall about trailers being brought in for the construction crews to live in and when completed sold to residents that wanted them. There was much talk about the proposal then and nothing came of it. I suspect it will be some time before they actually do anything about a rail line to Alaska and their will probably be more studies when the previos studies have been forgotten.

[Anonymous]

I have a friend who was the CFO of BC Rail before CN took it over. I asked him about the Deese Lake line being extended to Alaska. He did not know anything about this proposal, but said that the BC government stopped the Deese Lake construction. He said that BC Rail, being a Crown corporation, was used to open the wilds of BC to development (Like this idea). With a change in government a couple of years ago and budgetary problems the Deese Lake line was axed. Most of the ROW is graded and ready for rail. Who knows, maybe we will see trains on the line someday. I do not know of the geography north of Deese Lake which could make this route impractical. Perhaps someone has better knowledge of the terrain than me.

Cheers,
***

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: Share your thoughts about Canadian passenger railroading - past and present. Let's not bash one another because of differences in opinion and of course, nationalities. Above all - keep politics out of our discussions.

.... From page one "Groundrules"........

Just a reminder from the originator of this topic ... there is too much nonsense going on elsewhere on these forums, we really can do better than that. Personal opinions are just like ----- noses ----- everyone has one. Sometimes those opinions are offensive to others.
======================================================

QUOTE: dldance Posted: 26 Apr 2005, 21:36:58
as requested I have reposted this item from cbc.ca dated 26 Apr 2005 on this thread.
dd
========

JUNEAU, Alaska – The Yukon and Alaskan governments are teaming up to study the economic and social benefits of a proposed rail line running through Canada and Alaska.

Officials announced Monday the signing of a memorandum of understanding to launch the year-long study, expected to begin in May.

The railway would link Alaska, the Yukon and northern British Columbia, and then run down into the contiguous United States.

The two governments have agreed to establi***he Alaska-Canada Rail Advisory Committee, comprising members from both jurisdictions. The study is expected to cost $5 million US.

Thanx dd and if no one else says it - [#welcome] [tup]

QUOTE: chateauricher Posted: 27 Apr 2005, 00:44:34
PS : I updated my profile to include a signature. However, I don't see it in any of my postings. Can others see it ? If so, why can't I ? How can I see it (other than in the "preview" section) ?

Hate to ask the obvious, but do you have the block checked to the right of "Options" that states, "Check here to include your profile signature."?
==================================
The following appeared on the CBC site:

QUOTE: Yukon, Alaska to study railroad idea
Last updated Apr 26 2005 11:34 AM CDT
CBC News
JUNEAU, Alaska – The Yukon and Alaskan governments are teaming up to study the economic and social benefits of a proposed rail line running through Canada and Alaska.

Officials announced Monday the signing of a memorandum of understanding to launch the year-long study, expected to begin in May.

The railway would link Alaska, the Yukon and northern British Columbia, and then run down into the contiguous United States.

The two governments have agreed to establi***he Alaska-Canada Rail Advisory Committee, comprising members from both jurisdictions. The study is expected to cost $5 million US.

Alaska Gov. Frank Murkowski says the rail corridor could incorporate fibre optic communications and a potential natural gas pipeline.

Yukon Minister of Economic Development Jim Kenyon says that if the project goes ahead, it would allow economic diversification in both countries.

"It gives us a better leg from Anchorage to Atlanta or Whitehorse to Halifax or any combination thereof," he said.

Now - it seems we have sufficient information with which to begin some intelligent dialogue with one another on the subject.

See ya now and then.[tup]

Tom in Chesterfield, MO, USA (Siberianmo)

[chateauricher]

Since an Alaskan railway will probably benefit the US more (economically and militarily), why not have them pay 2/3 of the construction costs ? Just tell Bu***hat it can be used to bring all that ANWAR oil south. H*ll ! Hearing that, he'd probably use more of his daddy's friends' money to build it.

PS : I updated my profile to include a signature. However, I don't see it in any of my postings. Can others see it ? If so, why can't I ? How can I see it (other than in the "preview" section) ?

[dldance]

as requested I have reposted this item from cbc.ca dated 26 Apr 2005 on this thread.

dd

========

JUNEAU, Alaska – The Yukon and Alaskan governments are teaming up to study the economic and social benefits of a proposed rail line running through Canada and Alaska.

Officials announced Monday the signing of a memorandum of understanding to launch the year-long study, expected to begin in May.

The railway would link Alaska, the Yukon and northern British Columbia, and then run down into the contiguous United States.

The two governments have agreed to establi***he Alaska-Canada Rail Advisory Committee, comprising members from both jurisdictions. The study is expected to cost $5 million US.

[daveklepper]

The Tempo cars on the Moffat line to Winter Park (actually reversed at Granby, an operating point with sidings) don't get much of a chance for high-speed operation because of grades and curves. So the ride qualtiy might be less important. And, of course the Burnham shop people had lots of smarts. They had to have smarts to keep the Budd equipment in such really fine mechanical shape for so many years on the Rio Grande Zephyr. So maybe they added dampers/shock absorbers, reprofiled the wheels, changed the spring constants or whatnot. Anybody know?

[siberianmo]

That's fine, but ....... would someone start this at the beginning, puleeeeeeeze!

[Junctionfan]

Considering it is a major economic development, the goverments of B.C and Alaska should pitch in $500 million each and the Federal Governments of Canada and the U.S should pitch in $1.5 billion each.

[siberianmo]

*** - Is this what you are referring to?

I found this topic posted on the Model Railroader (general discussions forum)

QUOTE: tatans Posted: 22 Mar 2005, 15:39:38
The Canadian Government has applied for a feasability study to connect Alaska and B.C. by rail. It will start outside Fairbanks and head south to Fort Nelson or Dease lake, approx. 1800 km. and cost $4 billion, now just who is going tp pay for it?

It sort of "died on the vine" - might have gotten more mileage on this forum .....

Anyway, tell us what you know!

Oh yes, e-mail has been re-re-re-re-sent.[;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)

[Anonymous]

Tom-

Have not received your emails. I guess the gremlins of the ether have eaten them. Please try my home email at [e-mail]. I WILL respond to you.

Cheers,
***

[siberianmo]

***,

I've sent you several e-mails over the past few weeks ..... are you getting them?

Tom

[Anonymous]

Hopefully this will get Tom (Siberianmo) to come back.

I am facinated about the prospect of linking Alaska to the rest of the North American rail system. The recently announced 80+/- mile extension towards Delta (not sure of the exact terminis) is a good start. Permafrost is not a problem as trains run to Churchill over the permafrost without undue problems. What is the rest of the alignment? Where will it connect to the rest of North america? I heard that BC Rail's Deese Lake line would not be used. Why?

Lets get some good feeds on this thread.

*** Watkins

[siberianmo]

QUOTE: andrewjonathon Posted: 24 Apr 05, 18:34:04
Originally posted by siberianmo
Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Siberianmo, I don't necessarily agree that it would take additional funding to increase the frequency of the "Canadian". It would depend on how they did it. If they ran additional frequencies only during peak season and possibly in BC and Alberta, it may be able to pay for itself. I found a series of letters between Transport Canada and the Canadian government from 1997 ( http://www.vcn.bc.ca/2000bc/learning/passrail/via_vanc_jasper.html ) when it was previously proposed to increase the frequencies. According to Transport 2000 BC VIA Rail expected to recover 130% of the marginal operating costs from additional frequencies. I don't know of any reasons the estimates still wouldn't be true today. However, the problem today would still probaby be the same as in 1997 - that is political sensitivity that the government was stealing a private operator's business.

Excellent point and don't doubt for a minute that what you say "could" work ..... sorry to say that I couldn't access that URL ...

My comment was more in line with the recent announcement from Ottawa that "The Federal Government's Expenditure Review has mandated a 5% cut across the board to all government programmes including VIA Rail. The 5% cut would mean VIA losing $7 million in Government support annually." (Source: Transport 2000 Canada, Vol 26, No. 6 - Dec 2004) If these cuts are to take place, there's already serious talk about discontinuation of VIA routes (stipulated in the article). In the face of this kind of talk, my thinking is that expansion of the schedule for the "Canadian" simply wouldn't "fly."

See ya! [tup][;)]

[tatans]

Rail service to PEI was by train ferry, a model which is in the maritime museum in Halifax, The bridge, which was one of the most expensive projects ever undertaken in Canada resulted in a very narrow TWO lane bridge with no shoulder, and cars cannot see over the side because of the high walls this massive project, all this to service a small island of 2000 sq. miles and a population of @ 150,000, that already had an efficient ferry system in place.

[andrewjonathon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by siberianmo

Oh yes, sorry to "report" that unless and until more funding comes from Ottawa, there's very little chance of increasing the frequency of the "Canadian." We know it is more the tourist train than not .... even though it is a scheduled train and has the accommodations for all, without the tourist dollars, perhaps there wouldn't be a "Canadian."![/b] [tup][;)]

Siberianmo, I don't necessarily agree that it would take additional funding to increase the frequency of the "Canadian". It would depend on how they did it. If they ran additional frequencies only during peak season and possibly in BC and Alberta, it may be able to pay for itself. I found a series of letters between Transport Canada and the Canadian government from 1997 ( http://www.vcn.bc.ca/2000bc/learning/passrail/via_vanc_jasper.html ) when it was previously proposed to increase the frequencies. According to Transport 2000 BC VIA Rail expected to recover 130% of the marginal operating costs from additional frequencies. I don't know of any reasons the estimates still wouldn't be true today. However, the problem today would still probaby be the same as in 1997 - that is political sensitivity that the government was stealing a private operator's business.

[passengerfan]

Remember taking family on trip to Niagara Falls from Toronto on a fine summer day in 1970. We boarded the train in Toronto Union Station and were soon underway. The train had a Baggage Car, Two Coaches and a Snack coach. The power was a pair of GMD-1s equipped with steam generators. Both were the A-1-A trucked versions and they were clean as was the entire consist.
After spending the day at the falls we returned to the station to find the same train for our return trip this was its second trip of the day for the consist. On the return the baggage car trailed as the consist was not turned at Niagara they simply ran the power to the other end and coupled up.
As we returned to Toronto remember seeing a TH&B train outbound from Toronto with PC Sleeper on rear destined for New York City.
The next time we traveled to Niagara Falls the train was comprised of an RDC-2 and two RDC-1's.
Rather than look back through the entire forum don't remember anyone commenting on the Tempo equipment that operated from Toronto to Windsor and Sarnia. The CN converted RS-18"s with a Cummings HEP package in the short hood and regeared the units to run at 90 mph. The lightweight cars were new built in Thunder Bay and featured outside disc brakes. The trains were generally between four and six cars in length and if operated with more cars a second RS-18 was added for power. They increased the schedule and people generally accepted the new trains but for people who had ridden other trains the lightweight cars had a terrible ride. It didn't take long for VIA to sell the cars to the Rio Grande where they became the new ski train from Denver. They certainly look fine in the Grande Gold with stripes, but I'm sure the color change did not improve the ride of these Hawker Siddeley built cars. In the longe area when operating at 60 or faster you had to drink your beer from the bottle or wear it. The ride was that bad.