I did some more research on the Buckingham Branch, at its website, buckinghambranch.com, and learned that the Cardinal still uses the BB between Orange and Charlottesville
Johnny
al-in-chgo From prior post: "To begin, I noticed some uncertainty as to junctions with the Southern and the N&W and the C&O in Virginia. The actual N&W/Sou junction is in Lynchburg–but the N&W crews and engines operated from Monroe, 7.4 miles above Lynchburg, since Monroe was the Southern division point. The C&O/Sou junction is just below the station in Orange (I understand that the track between Orange and Gordonsville, on the C&O passenger main, originally belonged to a predecessor of the Southern)." Thank you! Just to add a minor note or two: Monroe (pronounced MUN-roe) is or was a division point. My first solo trip on a passenger train was from Monroe into Lynchburg in, I think, 1959. My Uncle Guy said "They shined up the rail for the steps just like [I was] President Eisenhower! FWIW I recall reading about a year ago in TRAINS that freights coming thru Charlottesville from the west, headed up toward D.C., now utilize the exx-RF&P line from (IIRC) south of Fredericksburg on up to D.C. Apparently to do it the old way (thru Culpeper) would have required some kind of payment to NS, joint trackage notwithstanding. Amtrak keeps the traditional route, 'tho I don't know if there is still a C&O by-way thru Orange which reunites to the north with NS (exx-main line Sou.).
From prior post: "To begin, I noticed some uncertainty as to junctions with the Southern and the N&W and the C&O in Virginia. The actual N&W/Sou junction is in Lynchburg–but the N&W crews and engines operated from Monroe, 7.4 miles above Lynchburg, since Monroe was the Southern division point. The C&O/Sou junction is just below the station in Orange (I understand that the track between Orange and Gordonsville, on the C&O passenger main, originally belonged to a predecessor of the Southern)."
Thank you! Just to add a minor note or two: Monroe (pronounced MUN-roe) is or was a division point. My first solo trip on a passenger train was from Monroe into Lynchburg in, I think, 1959. My Uncle Guy said "They shined up the rail for the steps just like [I was] President Eisenhower!
FWIW I recall reading about a year ago in TRAINS that freights coming thru Charlottesville from the west, headed up toward D.C., now utilize the exx-RF&P line from (IIRC) south of Fredericksburg on up to D.C. Apparently to do it the old way (thru Culpeper) would have required some kind of payment to NS, joint trackage notwithstanding. Amtrak keeps the traditional route, 'tho I don't know if there is still a C&O by-way thru Orange which reunites to the north with NS (exx-main line Sou.).
I have a memory of seeing something about the construction of a connecting track at the station in Charlottesville, which would keep the Cardinal on NS rail that far (the two mains cross just south/west of the Southern station there); I hope to find out for sure next spring, when we plan to take the long route from Washington to Chicago--adding new miles in Indiana!
I have no idea if Monroe is still a division point or not; it was the south end of the Washington division, and the main of the Danville division ran from there to Spencer (just above Salisbury (pronunced SAULS-bury)), but the passenger crews changed in Salisbury. Even before I moved out here (34 years ago), the Southern had made great changes in its division make-up.
I have appreciated the information that I have gained from this Railroad History Quiz Game, especially when I went back to its beginning and read through all the questions and responses. As I was reading them, I noticed that some of the statements were lacking in detail which was familiar to me, and I hope that it will not be taken amiss if I provide the detail. The users of this forum really have much information to share, and I am looking forward to increasing my knowledge of railroad operation.
To begin, I noticed some uncertainty as to junctions with the Southern and the N&W and the C&O in Virginia. The actual N&W/Sou junction is in Lynchburg–but the N&W crews and engines operated from Monroe, 7.4 miles above Lynchburg, since Monroe was the Southern division point. The C&O/Sou junction is just below the station in Orange (I understand that the track between Orange and Gordonsville, on the C&O passenger main, originally belonged to a predecessor of the Southern).
Someone mentioned the IC’s line into Birmingham. The IC itself came no closer to Birmingham than Haleyville, Ala., then used the Northern Alabama (which the Sou engulfed) to Jasper, and then the SLSF on in to Birmingham. The IC also used trackage rights to get from Jackson, Tenn., to Corinth, Miss–using the M&O from Perry, 6.7 miles south of Jackson to Ruslor Jct., 1.5 miles above Corinth (I had to look the miles up). From there, it used its own track to Haleyville.
Passenger service representatives–some of the other roads that had passenger service representatives on board were Southern, SAL, ACL/FEC–and the FEC even had one on the train that it was forced to run during the strike (I rode from West Palm Beach to Jacksonville in October of 1967).
The Timken roller bearing locomotive–had, instead of the digits "1111" four pips (Spade, Heart, Diamond, Club–I do not remember just what the order was)–thus, it was the "Four Aces," on the steam dome or the sand box.
The Natchez Route–was not so-called in the November 1937 Guide (this is a highly treasured issue, which I keep by my bed; it was given me by the Southern’s agent in Bristol, Va., in the fall of 1954), when the L&A was operating to Vidalia. In 1946, the Louisiana Midland was split off from the L&A eastward from Vidalia, La., and the routing with the Mississippi Central was called the "Natchez Route." (I had to look some of the details up; I remembered that there was a road west from Vidalia that connected with the L&A.)
The Super Chief–was still a good train to ride in 1973. We (wife, three children, and I) rode it from Chicago to Albuquerque and back in ‘73, having a drawing room going out and a bedroom suite going back. The dining car steward westbound was an old hand, and he knew what must be done, what must not be done, and what could be done. The eastbound steward was not as certain of himself, and went by the book. Westbound, I signed once for our meals (rail travel card); eastbound I had to sign for each meal.
Flomaton, Ala.–the station was less that 100 feet from the Florida state line; someone placed it much farther away.
M100000-had a distillate engine, which disqualifies it from being the first diesel-powered streamlined train. I am not sure just what fraction of petroleum distillate is, but it is evidently sufficiently different from both gasoline and diesel fuel to have a distinct classification.
Someone stated that the Southern came into Louisville from Frankfort. The C&O and L&N provided service to Frankfort; the Southern came in from Danville and Lexington, through Lawrenceburg.
The C&EI–did not have its own track into St. Louis; it used the Big 4 from Pana to East St. Louis.
The Southern and St. Louis–the Southern stopped running 23 & 24 into St. Louis between June and December of 1948.
The Pelican was given its name after September of 1946; it had been simply described as trains 41 & 42.
al-in-chgo espeefoamer His name was Peke,and he was in the Army. Yup! Actually C&O spelled his name "Peake" (Chessie / Peake, wink-wink) and any advertisements I've seen put him in a World War Two sergeant's uniform (Chessie's "likeness" remained unchanged) . . . and they had kittens! You get the next question! - a.s.
espeefoamer His name was Peke,and he was in the Army.
His name was Peke,and he was in the Army.
Yup! Actually C&O spelled his name "Peake" (Chessie / Peake, wink-wink) and any advertisements I've seen put him in a World War Two sergeant's uniform (Chessie's "likeness" remained unchanged) . . . and they had kittens!
You get the next question! - a.s.
Peake did appear as a civilian a time or two before the War, and in the immediate Postwar era he had some bandages over his uniform. The kittens looked suspiciously like Chessie.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
I haven't a clue so I'll just throw out Robert R. Young and say he had a great life promoting coast to coast through passenger travel. I rember the slogan, "A hog can cross the country without changing trains ".
Mark
I know...but I'll give someone else the chance at this one.
Okay, how about an easy one: Who was Chessie's "Old Man" and what kind of life did they have? - a.s.
Oh, if you know about one of my past lives, you'd know why I'm embarrassed! I'd always pictured C&O's passenger runs on this line as being steam-powered. Couldn't have been a doodlebug for very long before they were ended completely.
By all means, let Al have the next question!
CShaveRR Coal road--but probably not to the coal fields. Did IC run one out west? If I find out that C&O used a doodlebug to Hammond from the southeast, I'm going to be totally embarrassed!
Coal road--but probably not to the coal fields. Did IC run one out west?
If I find out that C&O used a doodlebug to Hammond from the southeast, I'm going to be totally embarrassed!
No need to be embarrassed Carl, but the other one I was looking for was the C&O's gas electric doodlebug run between Cincy and Hammond.
I guess Al should ask the next question since he got the CGW right.
You've got one of them Al. The CGW's doodlebug ran between Chicago and Oelwein, IA a distance of 246 miles. Think about my last hint and the other one ought to be easy.
KCSfan Not the CNW, C&EI or GM&O. Unless one of these had a doodlebug run that I overlooked like I did the one on the Santa Fe. Regarding the two roads I have in mind, I'd label one a granger road and the other a coal hauler. Mark
Not the CNW, C&EI or GM&O. Unless one of these had a doodlebug run that I overlooked like I did the one on the Santa Fe. Regarding the two roads I have in mind, I'd label one a granger road and the other a coal hauler.
Was one of them the Chicago Great Western? - a.s.
I have no idea of names or schedules, but I'll venture a guess as to the railroads involved: C&EI and GM&O.
KCSfanHave another try at naming the other two doodlebugs which were the ones I had in mind when I posed this question.
Deggesty KCSfan Good call guys. When I posted this question I had forgotten about the Santa Fe having a gas electric running out of Chicago. This doodlebug ran as SF No. 13 leaving Chi at 11:35 pm and arrriving in Pekin at 6:20 am. Streator was an intermediate stop. It covered the 153 miles in 6 hrs 45 min giving it an average speed of 22.7 mph. I dare say very few persons were hardy enough to ride all night for the entire distance. It was a little speedier running east as No.14 leaving Pekin at 7:00 am and arriving back in Chicago just after Noon. In the same time period the RI's Peoria Rocket was making two daily round trips to Pekin's sister city over a slightly longer route (161 miles) in 2 hrs 35 min. Have another try at naming the other two doodlebugs which were the ones I had in mind when I posed this question. Mark When I started collecting passenger timetables in 1951, the train to Pekin ran only from Streator, as I recall, and it was a daytime trip. What are the limits to Chicagoland? Johnny
KCSfan Good call guys. When I posted this question I had forgotten about the Santa Fe having a gas electric running out of Chicago. This doodlebug ran as SF No. 13 leaving Chi at 11:35 pm and arrriving in Pekin at 6:20 am. Streator was an intermediate stop. It covered the 153 miles in 6 hrs 45 min giving it an average speed of 22.7 mph. I dare say very few persons were hardy enough to ride all night for the entire distance. It was a little speedier running east as No.14 leaving Pekin at 7:00 am and arriving back in Chicago just after Noon. In the same time period the RI's Peoria Rocket was making two daily round trips to Pekin's sister city over a slightly longer route (161 miles) in 2 hrs 35 min. Have another try at naming the other two doodlebugs which were the ones I had in mind when I posed this question. Mark
Good call guys. When I posted this question I had forgotten about the Santa Fe having a gas electric running out of Chicago. This doodlebug ran as SF No. 13 leaving Chi at 11:35 pm and arrriving in Pekin at 6:20 am. Streator was an intermediate stop. It covered the 153 miles in 6 hrs 45 min giving it an average speed of 22.7 mph. I dare say very few persons were hardy enough to ride all night for the entire distance. It was a little speedier running east as No.14 leaving Pekin at 7:00 am and arriving back in Chicago just after Noon. In the same time period the RI's Peoria Rocket was making two daily round trips to Pekin's sister city over a slightly longer route (161 miles) in 2 hrs 35 min.
Have another try at naming the other two doodlebugs which were the ones I had in mind when I posed this question.
What are the limits to Chicagoland?
For purposes of this question let's say "Chicagoland" is no further than 30 miles from the Loop even though that doesn't begn to include all of the suburbs.
Mar
DeggestyI do not recall the other terminii.
Back to Shenandoah Junction--my memory was faulty when I wrote of a Washington-New Orleans sleeper; it was a Washington-Memphis sleeper that the B&O handled between Washington and Shenandoah Junction. My point was that this obscure (to most railfans) junction was used in passenger service 115 years ago. I could have asked for the operating names of the roads south and west of Bristol--the Southern Railway did not exist in 1893, but the roads that became the Southern system did. From Bristol to Chattanooga, the East Tennessee, Virginia and Georgia handled the car, and the Memphis and Charleston division of the ETV&G took the car on to Memphis. The AGS and NO&NE ran down to New Orleans from Chattanooga, and they were listed as part of the Queen and Crescent--which was then a part of the ETV&G. Also, at that time, the A&V and VS&P were parts of the Q&C, along with the CNO&TP.
One of the roads which had doodlebugs in Chicagoland ws the Santa Fe, which had two with termini in Illinois. One terminus was Streator; I do not recall the other terminii.
KCSfanGas electric doodlebugs were most often found in passenger service on relatively short branch line runs. However around 1950 there were two railroads (and only two) that had long doodlebug runs which terminated in Chicagoland.
Next question. Gas electric doodlebugs were most often found in passenger service on relatively short branch line runs. However around 1950 there were two railroads (and only two) that had long doodlebug runs which terminated in Chicagoland. Name the two railroads and the routes of these doodlebug runs.
Deggesty Mark, I do not know why I quoted Martin for the WAG with Charles Town as the junction, when it was your email note that came through, and your correct guess came to my email at 10:04 this morning. Incidentally, what became of your posting with Charles Town as the junction? Did you pull it? Was it edited out (I found nothing offensive in it)? Johnny
Mark, I do not know why I quoted Martin for the WAG with Charles Town as the junction, when it was your email note that came through, and your correct guess came to my email at 10:04 this morning. Incidentally, what became of your posting with Charles Town as the junction? Did you pull it? Was it edited out (I found nothing offensive in it)?
After posting my reply I realized that Shenandoah Jct (on the main line) was a more logical place than Charles Town (on a branch line) for the handoff between the B&O and the N&W. Once this dawned on me I went back and edited the earlier reply changing Charles Town to Shenandoah Jct.
Deggesty KCSfan Johnny, Here's another WAG that I've come up with based on your last hint that it turned south before reaching Grafton. I can't begin to think of a logical reason for the inprobable route I describe but who knows what the rationale might have been back in the early 20th century. B&O Washington - Shenandoah Jct. N&W Shenandoah Jct. - Bristol Southern Bristol - New Orleans Mark Mark, you took the right left turn! I found this in the reprint of the June, 1893, Official Railway Guide. Here is something interesting: I did not get an email note of your answer, but I did get a note from Martin, received at 9:59 (MT) last night (and read this morning). Martin would have the car turn left at Harpers Ferry, and then right at Ranson, just east of Charles Town, and left onto the N&W at Belt Junction, which is just above Charles Town (he named Charles Town as the junction). This would have required an additional train on the B&O. Martin tried. No, I do not have all these junctions memorized; I looked Martin's up in SPV's Appalachia and Piedmont Atlas. I had not even thought about N&W's going through Charles Town. You should see some of the routings of through sleepers to Chicago for the 1893 exposition there. It's your question. Johnny
KCSfan Johnny, Here's another WAG that I've come up with based on your last hint that it turned south before reaching Grafton. I can't begin to think of a logical reason for the inprobable route I describe but who knows what the rationale might have been back in the early 20th century. B&O Washington - Shenandoah Jct. N&W Shenandoah Jct. - Bristol Southern Bristol - New Orleans Mark
Johnny,
Here's another WAG that I've come up with based on your last hint that it turned south before reaching Grafton. I can't begin to think of a logical reason for the inprobable route I describe but who knows what the rationale might have been back in the early 20th century.
B&O Washington - Shenandoah Jct.
N&W Shenandoah Jct. - Bristol
Southern Bristol - New Orleans
You should see some of the routings of through sleepers to Chicago for the 1893 exposition there.
It's your question.
Thank you, Mark and Johnny--I'll sit corrected. I didn't know--or didn't remember--that the B&O went to Charleston.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.