Interesting guesses, but no, no, and no.
Next hint - Probably giving it away here. The mineral red is the same color as the AT&SF caboose.
Were these cars operated in conjunction with the Chicago and Alton, whose colors were Maroon and orange?
Johnny
They weren't Jim Crow cars, were they? If they were, I don't care to give the reason, but you know I know.
Carl
Railroader Emeritus (practiced railroading for 46 years--and in 2010 I finally got it right!)
CAACSCOCOM--I don't want to behave improperly, so I just won't behave at all. (SM)
Maybe they were through cars for trains that hitched up with MoPac or Frisco, something like that??
Texas ZepherMost of Santa Fe's heavy weight passenger fleet carried a not quite Olive not quite Pullman Green color. There were a few passenger cars that were painted oxide red instead. Why, and what was their nick name? I don't know if this nick name is unique to the Santa Fe or not.
Texas ZepherBut be careful. there was a disc included in a railroad boxed set from Walmart titled Santa Fe Odeyssey Volume 1 that is NOT THE SAME as the one I'm speaking of.
Got mine direct from Green Frog and yes they are all rail. I also have a collection of Aviation DVDs and am interested in Ship DVDs as well but they are secondary. On the Classic trains thread you mentioned reference books. I put together one of my own some years ago that takes ten three inch binders on the Pullman Standard cars that only includes the heavyweights and lightweight streamlined. I keep saying I will eventually get around to all the Wooden cars from Pullman and there predecessors one of these days.
In addition I have two three inch binders on the Budd cars and one three inch binder that covers American Car & Foundry, St. Louis Car and the RRs that built there own. This latter is all lightweight. I even have the Canadian Car Builders and the Mexican Car builder. Am working on Colorado Railcar and its predecessors at the present and hope to have a complete car building and rebuilding binder on them before to long.
I have the commercial references you referred to but needed more detail such as trucks etc. that is why I created a monster.
Al - in - Stockton
passengerfanTexasZepherSanta Fe Odyssey Volume 1 by Green Frog....in my collection of well over 300 DVDS and Videos. I just have to find it among almost 400 in my collection.
TexasZepherSanta Fe Odyssey Volume 1 by Green Frog.
Maybe it was not Santa Fe MOW I saw with the Oxide Red with silver roof.
Hint - The cars in question are not Maintenance of Way equipment. Most of these cars operated in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Texas. However, I do have a few records showing they regularly got to Colorado. Without further research I have to ASSUME that they were used system wide just not as common as Kansas.
Texas Zepher I don't know if that is the right direction or not. I believe AT&SF MOW equipment was silver. There is one of these cars shown in one of the tracks on the Santa Fe Odyssey Volume 1 by Green Frog.
I don't know if that is the right direction or not. I believe AT&SF MOW equipment was silver.
There is one of these cars shown in one of the tracks on the Santa Fe Odyssey Volume 1 by Green Frog.
I have Tracks of the Santa Fe Vol. 1 in my collection of well over 300 DVDS and Videos. I just have to find it among almost 400 in my collection. My hardbound book collection numbers over 500 and softbounds and magazines I have yet to inventory. I keep meaning to arrange alphabetically both books and DVDs but have got lazy. The reason I know I have the one you mentioned is it is on my list and I must go looking for it. Maybe it was not Santa Fe MOW I saw with the Oxide Red with silver roof. I have a six year old grandson who has become a RR fanatic. I began by giving him my Videos as I replaced them with DVDs and from those humble beginnings they were forced to buy him his own TV to play the videos on as he occupied the main TV almost all day every day. Now he plays them in his room and will not let any visiting kids touch them.
Oxide Red was the color of Santa Fe's MOW equipment I believe. Don't know of any special name that I can recall.
Texas Zepher KCSfanTexas Z, Very good. Well, at least you didn't ask a Texas Zephyr question. .... I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954.It probably didn't help that they didn't have their own trackage for that route and ran on the Alton. The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.That I did not know. I thought it crossed the Mississippi before it got to Burlington and ran up through Illinois.
KCSfanTexas Z, Very good.
Very good.
I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954.
The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis.
I have researched the Zephyrs for a number of years and this may help fill in some blanks on the 9900 Pioneer Zephyr.
Hope this helps.
KCSfanYour turn again for the next question.
Most of Santa Fe's heavy weight passenger fleet carried a not quite Olive not quite Pullman Green color. There were a few passenger cars that were painted oxide red instead. Why, and what was their nick name? I don't know if this nick name is unique to the Santa Fe or not.
KCSfan Texas Zepher KCSfanOff the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s? Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route) Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things. Texas Z, Very good. I might add that in addition to the Silver Streak, both the Nebraska and Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyrs ran on the Omaha to Lincoln portion of the Pioneer Z's route. You actually identified all the four Z's as I was counting the Ozark and General Pershing as individual trains. I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954. I don't have any where near a complete set of OG's for the period so I don't know when the Q actually discontinued this service. The Zephyr Rocket operated over all of the Mark Twain's former St. Louis to Burlington route. Of course it continued on over the Rock from Burlington to Minneapolis. Your turn again for the next question. Mark
Texas Zepher KCSfanOff the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s? Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route) Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things.
KCSfanOff the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?
Pioneer Zephyr -> Silver Streak Zephyr
General Pershing Zephyr -> Ozark State Zephyr
Mark Twain Zephyr -> Zephyr Rocket (at least for part of the route)
Don't know the 4th. I do not know how the Kansas City Zephyr and American Royal Zephyr fit in the succession of things.
Texas Z,
Very good. I might add that in addition to the Silver Streak, both the Nebraska and Ak-Sar-Ben Zephyrs ran on the Omaha to Lincoln portion of the Pioneer Z's route.
You actually identified all the four Z's as I was counting the Ozark and General Pershing as individual trains. I guess there was too much competetion from the Wabash and MoPac on the StL-KC route as the Burlington had dropped all passenger service on their line via Mexico by 1954. I don't have any where near a complete set of OG's for the period so I don't know when the Q actually discontinued this service.
Your turn again for the next question.
Mark
A little more information on the original Zephyrs:
9900 was the Pioneer Zephyr, and it was originally operated under this name Kansas City-Lincoln 1934-1938, then to the Ozark State Zephyr schedule until the General Pershing Zephyr consist (engine 9908) and schedule replaced the Ozark State Zephyr schedule in 1939. It was moved around to several different schedules until it was retired and donated to the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry in 1960.
9901 and 9902 (same make-up as 9900) were the original Twin Zephyrs. They inaugurated the schedules in 1935 and were replaced by the longer 9904 and 9905 (still articulated cars, but the engine was separate) in 1936. 9901 became the Sam Houston Zephyr and was wrecked in 1944; light-weight cars from General Service replaced the wrecked cars, and the schedule was operated until 1966. 9902 was operated as the Ozark State Zephyr until it was replaced on this schedule by 9900 in 1938. Apparently, 9902 was operated in nameless service until 1945, when it was put into service between Chicago and Ottumwa as Zephyr 9902. In 1947, it was re-scheduled to operate between Chicago and Hannibal, Mo., and it ran there until its schedule was abolished in 1967.
9903 was the Mark Twain Zephyr; it ran between St. Louis and Burlington 1935-1958,when the schedule was abolished.
9904 and 9905 were the engines for the second Twin Zephyrs (1936-1947), with articulated cars--and the names of Greek and Roman gods. In 1947 they became the Nebraska Zephyr, and operated on this schedule until 1971.
9906 and 9907 were the last engines built for trains with articulated sets--the Denver Zephyr, which was inaugurated in 1936. These sets ran until 1956, when they were replaced by new cars.
I think that the Silver Streak Zephyr is the fourth one--it was not built with the power car articulated with the rest of the equipment, and it ran on its own named schedule (KC-Omaha/Lincoln?) The others named were built as one trainset, complete with power car. The General Pershing Zephyr replaced the Ozark State Zephyr in 1939. The various original articulated consists were still used for many years, often with no name in the timetables, as, for instance, the Pioneer Zephyr consist provided a Brookfield-St. Joseph connection for the Kansas City Zephyr when it (with the American Royal Zephyr) inaugurated in 1953 after the Q built its Birmingham cutoff and gained trackage rights over the Wabash to make its Chicago-KC line competivive.
The Mark Twain Zephyr ran between St. Louis and Burlington, but in its later years did not have a name shown in the timetable, even though apparently the same equipment was used until the schedule was abolished in 1958.
OK Here's the next question.
Off the top of my head I can think of the names of at least four of the early Zephyr fleet that by the late 1930’s - 1940’s no longer appeared in the Burlington’s schedules. What were the names and routes of these trains and what were the names of the Zephyrs (if any) that ran over their former routes in the 1950’s?
chad thomas Great thread gang. I don't think I've ever posted in it, probably because I haven't known any answers, but I just wanted to say thanks, very informative and fun to read.
Also if you noticed the above exchange between Mark and I, it is obvious I need to go back and review the books I read a couple years ago. I would have been ummmm, secure, in my possible ignorance without that exchange. One can often think they know something until they expose it for others to critique. In this forum that exchange is a safe & friendly way to improve the quality of ones knowledge.
KCSfanWhere do we stand on answering this question? I got the Colorado & Northwestern and DB&W right but you had to correct me on the UP part. If your original question has been fully answered who is the winner and gets to ask the next question? If it's me I have one in mind that I think you will like
So the full answer : What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? 1. Greeley Salt Lake & Pacific - 1883 Parent Railroad - Union Pacific2. Colorado & Northwestern - 1890 3. Denver Boulder & Western - 1909 Often shortened to just the Boulder WesternNick Name - The Switzerland Trail Railroad 1883-193x
Take it away - Mark!
I think this is the time where I ask for a hint or to have the question re-phrased, including what we do and don't know at this point. Please? - al
Great thread gang. I don't think I've ever posted in it, probably because I haven't known any answers , but I just wanted to say thanks, very informative and fun to read.
Where do we stand on answering this question? I got the Colorado & Northwestern and DB&W right but you had to correct me on the UP part. If your original question has been fully answered who is the winner and gets to ask the next question? If it's me I have one in mind that I think you will like
R. T. POTEETDo you have an attribute for this last statement; in all of my years of reading railroad history this is the first time I have ever heard that the Onion Specific had had anything whatsoever to do with the capitalization of the DSP&P.
P.S. As I remember this reading, it was when the railroad became the C&S is when the Alpine Tunnel and hence trackage to Gunnison was abandon. Seems like they kept the trackage to St. Elmo for one or two seasons longer and then abandon every thing west of the Ark valley....
Texas Zepher KCSfanIf forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington. An intelligent guess, but incorrect. It was the Union Pacific who did the initial bank role for this railroad. BTW. The Union Pacific was also behind the Denver South Park & Pacific.
KCSfanIf forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington.
An intelligent guess, but incorrect. It was the Union Pacific who did the initial bank role for this railroad. BTW. The Union Pacific was also behind the Denver South Park & Pacific.
Do you have an attribute for this last statement; in all of my years of reading railroad history this is the first time I have ever heard that the Onion Specific had had anything whatsoever to do with the capitalization of the DSP&P. I don't know that it is not true; I am just wondering where you got your information.
The Onion Specific folded a bankrupt DSP&P as well as the Colorado Central--a road which they had controlled off-and-on for two decades--into the Denver, Leadville, and Gunnison, a company formed by UP about 1890 for the specific purpose of operating these two narrow gauge lines. Subsequent to UP's mid-'90s bankruptcy the DL&G was itself folded into a newly formed Colorado and Southern, a company formed in the late-'90s for the purpose of taking control of both the DL&G and the Union Pacific, Denver, and Gulf, a UP financed standard gauge entity; After a decade or so of independence the C&S subsequently fell under the dominion of "the Q".
It could perhaps be advocated that your statement on the bankrolling or the Colorado and Southern by the Union Pacific is substantially correct in that it was the UP which had financed the construction of the UPD&G south of Denver and which became the heart of the Colorado and Southern.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Not a problem, Mark!
If forced to pick between the C&S and UP I'd say C&S since I know for a fact that the C&S operated both 3' and standard gauge lines. If you're looking for a parent company of the C&S that of course would be the Burlington.
While we're at it does anyone know how we can change the title of this thread to just "Railroad History Quiz Game" and eliminate the "Now Playing: South Jersey Question" which never should have been added in the first place.
al-in-chgoWestern Pacific?
KCSfan Colorado & Northwestern Denver Boulder & Western The Class I parent road was either the UP or the C&S (Burlington).
What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? 1. ? Parent Railroad - UP or C&S but which one?2. Colorado & Northwestern 1890 (Mark's answer)3. Denver Boulder & Western 1909 (Mark's answer)Nick Name - ?
Texas Zepher From the Jersey Shores to the Great Rocky Mountains, and probably an easy one. What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? (Hint, one of the names is a nick name not an official name for the RR). 1. ? Parent Railroad - ? 2. ?3. ?Nick Name - ?
From the Jersey Shores to the Great Rocky Mountains, and probably an easy one.
What were three of the four names for the railroad that headed west from Boulder Colorado into the mountains up Four-Mile Creek, and what class 1 railroad owned one of them? (Hint, one of the names is a nick name not an official name for the RR).
1. ? Parent Railroad - ? 2. ?3. ?Nick Name - ?
Colorado & Northwestern
Denver Boulder & Western
The Class I parent road was either the UP or the C&S (Burlington).
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