Let me add that I am talking about one train via 4 railroads including the L&HR..
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I'll take a guess at one of them and say the Lackawanna. But it's just a guess.
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New Question: What three railroads used the L&HR as bridge route for passenger service?
The PRR did at least between Phillipsburg (comming from Trenton) and just north of Belvidere till they got onto the DL&W to get to Stroudsburg. This was back in the 30's as far as I know. 5" and countiang as of 12:44 here next to Blue Mt. Snow that is.
Yep, henry6 is correct. In just 11 minutes - is that a new record - ?
- Paul North.
"OK, here goes - same river (Delaware), but further north, between Easton, Pennsylvania, and Phillipsburg, New Jersey. (Sorry for the eastern PA emphasis here, but I want to be sure it's something I know about for certain, and not too hard nor too easy, and still post it this morning.)
There are (still) 3 railroad bridges (and 2 road bridges) crossing the Delaware River there at the "Forks of the Delaware". Although I believe that 1 or 2 of the RR bridges are now out of service, back in the pre-ConRail days all 3 were used. From South to North, the first 2 are practically straight, but the 3rd northernmost one is curved or diagonal to the NorthEast. Here's the question:
Which railroad operating company* was the primary user** of that northernmost curved railroad bridge between Easton, PA and Phillispburg, NJ, up until the take-over by ConRail on April 1, 1976*** ?"
Lehigh and Hudson River...mainly for trains to Allentown over CNJ's C RR of PA.
And the good news is ????
OK, here goes - same river (Delaware), but further north, between Easton, Pennsylvania, and Phillipsburg, New Jersey. (Sorry for the eastern PA emphasis here, but I want to be sure it's something I know about for certain, and not too hard nor too easy, and still post it this morning.)
Which railroad operating company* was the primary user** of that northernmost curved railroad bridge between Easton, PA and Phillispburg, NJ, up until the take-over by ConRail on April 1, 1976*** ?
* - so that we don't have to get sidetracked with or worry about any possible underlying bridge companies, corporate subsidiaries, etc.
** - on a "day-to-day" basis, not one which may have used it only for detours or special moves, trackage rights, etc.
*** - Might have still been used by that company for a while after then, but I'm not sure and don't want to muddy the waters with that - just know which one it was up until then.
Caution, after seeing the other answers to the previous question: Neither Google Maps nor the SPV Railroad Atlas is going to provide a clear, quick, or simple answer (I think !).
Paul_D_North_Jr All us NorthEasterners are too busy out buying milk, eggs, bread, & t-paper to stock up for the 2" - 8" bizzard snowfall and ice storm tomorrow ! That said, here's my "guess" (because all my good references are in the office at work): PRR, from DelAir Bridge to Winslow Jct. By the way, PRSL = Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines, a 1935 joint venture between those 2 railroads - PRR & RDG - to eliminate duplication on this route. oltmannd NJT operates trains from Phila 30th St to Atlantic City. There are 14 round trips per day, at present. Which part of the route in NJ was never part of PRSL? Who was the owner during the PRSL years?
All us NorthEasterners are too busy out buying milk, eggs, bread, & t-paper to stock up for the 2" - 8" bizzard snowfall and ice storm tomorrow !
That said, here's my "guess" (because all my good references are in the office at work):
PRR, from DelAir Bridge to Winslow Jct.
By the way, PRSL = Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines, a 1935 joint venture between those 2 railroads - PRR & RDG - to eliminate duplication on this route.
oltmannd NJT operates trains from Phila 30th St to Atlantic City. There are 14 round trips per day, at present. Which part of the route in NJ was never part of PRSL? Who was the owner during the PRSL years?
Close enough! Although the follow-on folks correctly narrowed it to the Delair Bridge to Haddonfield.
You get to ask the next question. The only rule here is "No looking online for answer you must know the answer" (from very first post)
The PRR built the bridge, but kept it and the connecting line built at nearly the same time to their West Jersey and Seashore at Haddonfield as part of the parent company. The original plan was to extend the connecting line south past Haddonfield to Westville/Woodbury, creating a belt line around Camden giving freight traffic a by-pass route around the busy Camden Terminal area. The line was graded, but never built. In fact, the ROW for the extension can still be plainly seen on Google Maps.
The PRSL incorporation only included the Atlantic City RR (RDG owned) and WJ&S (PRR owned) and in addition to the Delair Bridge connection, didn't include the PRR line to Pemberton nor the PRR ex- Camden and Amboy) line.
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
On a 1956 map there's 2 nearly parallel lines from the Delaware River to Winslow, both called PRS, which I guess means Penn Reading Seashore. It seems in 1933 the ICC ordered the merger of the 2 roads to Atlantic City, with PRR owning 2/3 and Reading 1/3. Or something like that. I dunno.
Delair Bridge
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=744694
http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/habshaer/pa/pa3700/pa3755/photos/362183pv.jpg
Judging from the STV atlas, I would say that the PRR-only owned line extended only to West Haddonfield, since PRSL is shown as having owned the track (now abandoned) from Camden to West Haddonfield. The atlas shows West Jersey and Seashore (WJS) as being the original owner from Camden to West Haddonfield and on south, through Winslow Jct. The atlas does not indicate any intermediate ownership between original and current (or the last owner before abandonment). As I understand it, the WJS and the Atlantic City Railroad (AC) were combined to form PRSL.
Is it okay to use the STV atlas rather than Google?
Johnny
I think all the northeasterners have bailed on this. This is not too hard a question. Here's the setup. The Delaware River River separates Philly from NU. So the early RRs from Camden into NJ used ferries. The early RR were purchased by bigger ones outside the state of NJ, but they kept tthem separate on the books, even as these separate RRs swallowed other smaller, adjacent lines. One of the parents decided ferries were too expensive, especially for frieght, and too inconvenient for passengers coming from Phila, so they built a bridge nearby in the late 1890s.
oltmannd You can use google maps for this one. Pay attention to the Delaware River.
You can use google maps for this one. Pay attention to the Delaware River.
Al - in - Stockton
NJT operates trains from Phila 30th St to Atlantic City. There are 14 round trips per day, at present. Which part of the route in NJ was never part of PRSL? Who was the owner during the PRSL years?
KCSfan oltmannd It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974? We have a winner! Right on all counts so you're up to bat with the next question. Mark
oltmannd It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974?
It was the Georgia Road, Altanta to Augusta or some portion thereof. The year? 1974?
We have a winner! Right on all counts so you're up to bat with the next question.
Mark
KCSfan The next question will be easy and concerns the last scheduled mixed train to run in the US. What was its route, what railroad ran it, and when (year only) was it discontinued? Mark
The next question will be easy and concerns the last scheduled mixed train to run in the US. What was its route, what railroad ran it, and when (year only) was it discontinued?
N&W train #1 at Roanoke
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/F1/NS3440.JPG
Tennesseean
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns743.jpeg
KCSfan Deggesty Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny Another help--the ACL took the car into Jacksonville, using a branch line and then the main line (the ACL Express on the main line). How did the car get to the N&W, and what road connected the N&W with the ACL? At that time, it took two roads (the B&O was not one of them) to get the car to the N&W, but two years later, one of the two was taken in by the the other. Johnny Johnny, The following route doesn't fit all of your clues but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far. Maybe some portions of it are right. PRR - NY to Hagerstown N&W - Hagerstown to Roanoke to Winston-Salem WSSB - Winston-Salem to Wadesboro ACL - Wadesboro to Florence to Jacksonville Mark
Deggesty Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny Another help--the ACL took the car into Jacksonville, using a branch line and then the main line (the ACL Express on the main line). How did the car get to the N&W, and what road connected the N&W with the ACL? At that time, it took two roads (the B&O was not one of them) to get the car to the N&W, but two years later, one of the two was taken in by the the other. Johnny
Deggesty A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties. Johnny
A hint–the car did not go through Washington (or Cincinnati; some lines seemed to really wander about, but this one did not wander that much). Also, think about a sleeper line from NYC to an N&W city that did not go through Washington, and lasted into the sixties.
Johnny,
The following route doesn't fit all of your clues but it's the best I've been able to come up with so far. Maybe some portions of it are right.
PRR - NY to Hagerstown
N&W - Hagerstown to Roanoke to Winston-Salem
WSSB - Winston-Salem to Wadesboro
ACL - Wadesboro to Florence to Jacksonville
Mark, you have the route! Here are the details found in the June 1917 Guide:
NYC to Harrisburg--PRR #7, the Mercantile Express; Harrisburg to Hagerstown--Cumberland Valley #1 (the Cumberland Valley (8/1837 to 6/1919) was absorbed by the PRR); Hagerstown to Roanoke--N&W #1; Roanoke to Winston-Salem--N&W #21; Winston-Salem to Wadesboro, N. C.--Winston-Salem Southbound #53 (this is the oddest, to me, partner in the Pullman line); ACL to Florence--ACL #63; Florence to Jacksonville--ACL #89, the ACL Express.
Northbound, the car arrived in Roanoke too late to make connection with a train to move it on towards NYC, so the line was broken there. Jacksonville to Florence--#80, the ACL Express; Florence to Wadesboro--#62; Wadesboro to Winston-Salem--#52; Winston-Salem to Roanoke--#22. The next day: Roanoke to Hagerstown--#36; Hagerstown to Harrisburg--#14; Harrisburg to NYC--#7, the Atlantic Express. In its representation in this issue of the Guide, the ACL indicates that the car ran through northbound as well as southbound.
The Cumberland Valley surprised me when I first saw it, but it was but one of many roads that were absorbed by other roads during the years of building and consolidation.
There were two other sleeper lines handled through Hagerstown--New York-Winston-Salem and Philadelphia-Gary, West Virginia.
Mark, it's your question.
Deggesty Thanks, Al - in - Stockton. A question (no credit) how many of you readers/contributors bought the reprints of an 1893, a 1917, a 1930, and 1941 Guide? You can find quite interesting stuff in these. The real question: How did the N&W participate in a through New York City TO Jacksonville, Fla. sleeper (roads and junction points), and what were the terminii of this sleeper on its way back to New York City (two legs)? If you can name the two name trains in each direction, you are doing wonderfully well. This is in the June 1917 Guide. Johnny
Thanks, Al - in - Stockton. A question (no credit) how many of you readers/contributors bought the reprints of an 1893, a 1917, a 1930, and 1941 Guide? You can find quite interesting stuff in these.
The real question: How did the N&W participate in a through New York City TO Jacksonville, Fla. sleeper (roads and junction points), and what were the terminii of this sleeper on its way back to New York City (two legs)? If you can name the two name trains in each direction, you are doing wonderfully well. This is in the June 1917 Guide.
wanswheel Al - in - Stockton, please keep in mind that the Montrealer and Washingtonian were always Central Vermont trains. My grandfather was the fireman in the 1920s and the engineer in the '30s and '40s. He drove the train from White River Junction all the way to Montreal. No crew change at the border. Yes CN owned CV, but in 1924 when the Montrealer got started, 1/3 of the stock was still held by the founder's family in St. Albans. CV went into receivership after the flood of 1927. At auction in 1929 CN bought CV all up for good. B&M was the Montrealer's crucial link to Springfield. They pulled out in 1966 and that was that for the Montrealer. Amtrak restored the train in 1972. Now it's a day train called the Vermonter. http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1737822191&id=57 http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1087565537&id=57 Mike
Al - in - Stockton, please keep in mind that the Montrealer and Washingtonian were always Central Vermont trains. My grandfather was the fireman in the 1920s and the engineer in the '30s and '40s. He drove the train from White River Junction all the way to Montreal. No crew change at the border. Yes CN owned CV, but in 1924 when the Montrealer got started, 1/3 of the stock was still held by the founder's family in St. Albans. CV went into receivership after the flood of 1927. At auction in 1929 CN bought CV all up for good. B&M was the Montrealer's crucial link to Springfield. They pulled out in 1966 and that was that for the Montrealer. Amtrak restored the train in 1972. Now it's a day train called the Vermonter.
http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=1737822191&id=57
http://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-1087565537&id=57
Mike
Of course you are correct Sorry I forgot about the CV. Remember the station well in St. Albans. Seems I also forgot the Alouette that ran between Boston and Montreal. It could only be called streamlined when it ran with the RDC's
CShaveRR I'm pretty sure GTW contributed nothing to this list--the way I remember the International and the Maple Leaf, their equipment could hardly be considered "streamlined". Again, no concrete help, but a couple of suggestions: --I vaguely remember seeing some CP RDCs in the station in Windsor once; they were either about to go through, or had just come through, the Detroit-Windsor tunnel owned by the Michigan Central. Would RDCs count? --Anything through Sault Sainte Marie?
I'm pretty sure GTW contributed nothing to this list--the way I remember the International and the Maple Leaf, their equipment could hardly be considered "streamlined".
Again, no concrete help, but a couple of suggestions:
--I vaguely remember seeing some CP RDCs in the station in Windsor once; they were either about to go through, or had just come through, the Detroit-Windsor tunnel owned by the Michigan Central. Would RDCs count?
--Anything through Sault Sainte Marie?
The GN Winnipeg Limited carried a summer lightweight sleeper for the CN from St. Paul to Winnipeg where it transferred to the Super Continental for the trip to Vancouver. The NP operated an RDC between Fargo and Winnipeg. The DW&P operated an RDC between Duluth and just across the Canadian border. The NH, PRR and CN operated the Montrealer and Washingtonian. That pretty well covers it with the others previously mentioned.
Degessty seems to have mentioned the most so I guess it his question.
al-in-chgo passengerfan KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark Mark the later Laurentian of the D&H was streamlined but the North Shore Limited would be stretching it a bit. The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners. Al - in - Stockton How far back pre-Amtrak (or pre-VIA) are we going?
passengerfan KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark Mark the later Laurentian of the D&H was streamlined but the North Shore Limited would be stretching it a bit. The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners. Al - in - Stockton
KCSfan I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route. Mark
I'll mention two trains but I don't know whether or not they were streamlined. 1) The Laurentian between NY and Ottawa and 2) the North Shore Ltd. between NY and Chicago which, IIRC, ran over the NYC's Canada Southern route.
The GTW did operate in conjunction with parent a couple of streamliners.
How far back pre-Amtrak (or pre-VIA) are we going?
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