The "N" Crowd

[Dave Vollmer]

Hey guys, how many of you subscribe to or read N Scale Railroading? I subscribed for a while when it first came out. It wasn't very well put together then, but I thought I had potential. I let the subscription lapse after 2 years thinking I would check it out in a few years when they work out the kinks and get a little broader base. Well a few years have passed and I'm wondering how the mag is now. My (only) LHS doesn't carry it so my only option is to subscribe, but I thought I'd get a few up-to-date opinions first.

Ron

I read it.  It's good!  In fact, I'm working up a potential article on my layout for it.  MR's photography standards are beyond my reach, so I'll go with NSR.

Besides, NSR (and N scale Magazine) fill the wide gaps that MR leaves in our scale.  So it's good to support them.

As bad as we N scalers have it in MR magazine, how about those poor S scale folks?  That's why they have their own magazines too.

But I'll say this...  For N scale being the second most popular scale, I'm still unhappy with the balance in the typical issue of MR.  Some issues get it right, but most don't.

[cpeterson]

I think N scale railroading is a great mag.  i think they do a good job of coverage from entry level through more advanced model railroading.  Some issues are hit or miss but they are very dependent on submissions from modelers, so some issues are really well done, and some a little sparce.  I've subscribed for several years now and have enjoyed it.

[n2mopac]

Hey guys, how many of you subscribe to or read N Scale Railroading? I subscribed for a while when it first came out. It wasn't very well put together then, but I thought I had potential. I let the subscription lapse after 2 years thinking I would check it out in a few years when they work out the kinks and get a little broader base. Well a few years have passed and I'm wondering how the mag is now. My (only) LHS doesn't carry it so my only option is to subscribe, but I thought I'd get a few up-to-date opinions first.

Ron

[R. T. POTEET]

Those of you who have been enjoying this hobby for years will have to excuse my newcomer's exuberance and enthusiasm . . . . . . . . . .

Hyun, let me welcome you to the forum and to model railroading; my course through this hobby parallels yours - I modeled ships before I got interested in the steel highway.

You will never hear anything from me disparaging your exuberance and enthusiasm for this hobby; I have been modeling since 1962 and I wish today that I exhibited that unbridled thrill that I felt those forty plus years ago.  I certainly hope that ten years down the road that exuberance and enthusiasm will not have faded into boredom!!!

. . . . . . . . . . I don't really know at this point to be able to tell whether this is a quality engine or not, but it runs very smoothly.

This GP20 enjoys a fairly high reputation; its introduction by Life-Like several years ago was the beginning of their transition to a more scale environment.  Several members of my N Scale club own them and consist them in three and four unit lash-ups.  I would probably have hesitated to recommend that you go with a train set as an introduction to the hobby but you did pick a good starting point!!!

[Anonymous]

All right, got my first N scale set today, the Life-Like Freight King #7523 Union Pacific, from Walthers.  Ordered it last Thursday, it shipped on Friday from Wisconsin, and got it today in California.  That's pretty fast shipping!

Those of you who have been enjoying this hobby for years will have to excuse my newcomer's exuberance and enthusiasm.    Not to mention my praise for what may very well be, in terms of today's N scale standards, a mediocre product.  This is all new to me!  And, who knows, maybe there'll be other newcomers down the road who may find this useful.

I've been doing a LOT of reading the past month or so since I decided to get into model railroading hobby, and if there's a common theme I've found everywhere, it's the advice given by the majority of posters to avoid starter train sets and to put together quality components yourself.  Well that might make perfect sense for those who know what's what in the hobby, but for us newcomers, it's a bit too overwhelming.  So, I decided to get a starter set, the Life-Like set:

In addition to the GP20 engine, it came with four freight cars, a caboose, enough nickel-silver Power-Loc track pieces to make 21" x 27.5" double ovals (it includes a left- and right-hand manual switch tracks), two N scale building kits (country store and chapel), four trees, and a bunch of street signs, all for $92.

Now, I've handled precision kits and miniatures before, coming from mlitary modeling background and also 1/700 scale ships with PE parts.  So I'd like to think that I'm not entirely without discerning eyes when it comes to checking out replica models.  That said, I'm very impressed with the set.  The engine, and the freight cars, are individually packaged in their own clear acrylic cases, like this (click to view larger versions):

I'm just very impressed with the detail present on such an entry-level engine, as you can see from the following pictures (click to view larger versions):

I don't really know at this point to be able to tell whether this is a quality engine or not, but it runs very smoothly.  At the slowest speed setting, pulling all four cars and the caboose, it took the engine 3 minutes and 56 seconds to complete one lap of the 21" x 27.5" loop, without stalling a single time, and at all times moving smoothly (got it on a video clip). 

The details on freight cars seem pretty good, too.  Check out the lettering on this car (a reefer?):

... and the working headlight, while not too bright, lights itself and the car numbers up nicely: 

If this kind of quality is what most experienced modelers advice against buying, then the "quality" engines and cars must be superb, indeed!  The only part of the set I'm not too crazy about is the blue power pack/throttle controller.  It's a single dial that controls both forward and reverse movements.  I much prefer the basic Bachmann controller that came with my HO Thomas Tank Engine set--the dial is much smoother and easier to control than the Life-Like model.  No big deal, as I was planning on getting a MRC Railpower controller anyway.

[pcarrell]

Play with the set a bit and learn what works good about it and what needs improvement.  Then you'll have a way to make your hobby dollars really work for you!

[Anonymous]

Thanks Philip, great explanations, especially about the necessity of keeping track clean.

I'm eagerly waiting for my LL GP20 starter set to arrive--should be sometime middle of this week.  I've also been reading and reading and am itching to buy more stuff--mainly extra track (flex-track and Power-Loc adapters) and buildings--but am going to hold off until I get the set and have a chance to set it up.  Gaaahhh... so hard to exert self-control...

[pcarrell]

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner.  I didn't notice your post any earlier.  My bad!

1) Why is the "real" railroad called "prototype"?  My understanding of that word, until a few weeks ago (when I started reading up on the railroad stuff) was something that was first in its class, or a new example of something, not a real-life or historical equivalent of something miniaturized.

You actually hit the nail on the head with the first definition.  The real railroads (prototype) came before model railroads and are therefore the example, or prototype, for our modeling.  So said another way, the prototype is the original on which something is based or formed, in this case, our model trains.

2) I've been reading up on the importance of cleaning the track.  I understand that oxidized nickel-silver will still conduct electricity, whereas oxidized steel won't.  Is it still necessary to periodically clean nickel-silver track?

Yes it is.  Dirt and grease, oil and crud, all build up on the tracks and they reduce the connectivity of the electricity to the locomotive.  Think of it this way; if the place where the loco's wheels contact the track to trasmit the eletricity from the rail to the motor is dirty, then that impedes the signal, right?  This means that the loco's motor doesn't get a clean strong signal.  This will make it so that the loco will probably run poorly, or kind of "herky-jerky", instead of smoothly.  To ad insult to injury, our N scale loco's don't weigh much, so they can't cut down through the dirt buildup like a heavier loco would to get the clean signal.  Our loco's will tend to ride up on that cushion of dirt a lot sooner then a heavier loco would.  Does that make sense?  

3) On the subject of using masonite pads under a car to clean the track:  A carpenter at work (I work in Facilities Management department at a university, although I'm not a tradesperson) gave me a scrap piece of tempered masonite.  Is this the same thing as track-cleaning masonite?  I've cut it down to size (to fit an HO car) and beveled the edges, but it doesn't look very convincing:

I've not used masonite for this, so I'm probably not the best person to ask.  I generally use a rag with a bit of alcohol on it and then finish up with a bright boy cleaner.

[cpeterson]

How did we fall to page 4.

Hyun, sorry I can't be of help on any of those questions, but maybe someone will be able to answer with this little bump to the front of the forum.

I finally have all but 30 inches on one track, of my staging yard in place.  I am within 14 feeder wires of finished with the track wiring, and then on to the part of the hobby I think I hate most.  I hate the underlayout wiring.  I also hate installing tortoise switch machines and that will be done probably befor any of the wiring gets finished.

I'm still contemplating adding occupancy detection.  Luckily I noticed an article on it in MRR, but have not been able to read it yet.  I think it will be crucial to having the yard work properly, but that adds in the next logical step which would be turnout control with the DCC setup, all of which adds a lot of cost that I don't know I'm ready for.

I'm also thinking about adding ballast to my staging yard to help keep everything glued down well and aligned.

Hope everyone is doing well and that your modeling is going well.

[Anonymous]

Hi Philip,

Thanks for the links.  I've so far read the Space Mouse's guide, which was very helpful.  So much to read and learn, but I'm enjoying it thoroughly.

Thanks also for the words of encouragement.  Yes, I'm going to keep it fun for me, as a hobby ought to be, and see where it takes me.  As a complete newbie, I'll keep it simple for now without applying myself unrealistically to some arbitrary standard of historical accuracy or realism.  It's all good. 

And thanks to everyone who encouraged me to ask questions!  Here are my first three:

1) Why is the "real" railroad called "prototype"?  My understanding of that word, until a few weeks ago (when I started reading up on the railroad stuff) was something that was first in its class, or a new example of something, not a real-life or historical equivalent of something miniaturized.

2) I've been reading up on the importance of cleaning the track.  I understand that oxidized nickel-silver will still conduct electricity, whereas oxidized steel won't.  Is it still necessary to periodically clean nickel-silver track?   

3) On the subject of using masonite pads under a car to clean the track:  A carpenter at work (I work in Facilities Management department at a university, although I'm not a tradesperson) gave me a scrap piece of tempered masonite.  Is this the same thing as track-cleaning masonite?  I've cut it down to size (to fit an HO car) and beveled the edges, but it doesn't look very convincing:

 

Thanks again for all the help. 

[pcarrell]

Hyun, 

I know all about watching the trains go round the layout.  I think we all start there.  Many people enjoy just that and maybe a little scenery, and thats it.  Those kind of layouts are usually referred to as "railfan layouts", and there's nothing at all wrong with them.  My first two layouts were just that, railfan layouts.  Thing is, after a while I got bored watching my train "chase it's caboose" so to speak.  That when I started defining a few things (like era, local, reason for being, and so on) and tarted getting more interested in operations.  I wasn't huge on it at first.  I would find out what kind of car was used at a certain industry, include it on my train, and then break it out of the train and spot it as I was passing through.  Later, after a few laps, I'd swing by and pick it up again. 

I still enjoy the occasional break from the scenario that I have.  My last layout was based in the 1930's in Maine, but there were times that one might see a N&W streamlined J locomotive from the 1950's pasing through.  I even ran the occasional "D" word loco!!!!! (diesel)  I had an ABBA set of Penn. F units with a set of lightweight streamliners behind it.  I don't run any of those during an Ops sesion, but they are good for a change of pace when you'e just having fun.

The thing you have to remember is that we all started out at some point or another, where you are now.  We've been there.  Don't feel intimidated by some of the people around here.  I've found that most of them are willing to share immencely.  And don't feel like you have to know it all overnight either.  We didn't learn it all like that, so we can't expect you too.

I know that you're reading a lot right now, and thats a good thing.  Let me toss a couple of links at you to some web sites that might help in your quest for knowledge.

http://www.nmra.org/

http://www.chipengelmann.com/trains/Beginner/BeginnersGuide01.html

http://ldsig.org/wiki/index.php/Category:Primer

http://home.earthlink.net/~mrsvc/index.html

http://siskiyou-railfan.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.26

http://www.carendt.com/

I hope those help.

And please, don't be afraid to ask that question that you think is dumb.  It can't possibly be as dumb as some of the ones I've asked!

[Anonymous]

Guys,

Thanks for the warm welcome.  I finished reading this thread earlier today (well, I may have more or less skimmed the last few pages!), and am at once impressed by the knowledge and dedication to the hobby displayed by you guys here, and also at the same time a bit intimidated by it.  Some of you have fantastic realism and detail in your layouts, and the painstaking detail and attention are evident in your discussions and photos.

It's also made me think about why I want to get (back) into model railroading.  I like watching trains run.  As simple as that.   It satisfies a sense of mechanical curiosity and it's so gosh darn neat watching the little mechanical marvels chug along, to and fro, obeying all commands.  However, I don't have the desire to recreate a specific era or setting in history like many of you seem to.  Maybe that will change in time, but maybe not.  A lot of you seem to have grown up around rail or have had family members who worked on railways.  The extent of my involvement with rail growing up is hurrying to catch the British Railways train home after school and all too often missing it.  Not exactly pleasant memories!   So, I'd be perfectly happy to set up a track layout, mix and match engines and cars based on what I think looks "good," and let them have at it.  Historical accuracy isn't exactly a factor for me right now.  There's got to be people like me, for whom the enjoyment of the act of controlling a train or two and running it around the track is what they're in the hobby for.  

I'm not exactly a newcomer to some aspects of this hobby.  My main hobby right now is 25-35mm miniatures modeling, and before that was military model buidling (mainly 1/35 armor).  I've got a pretty nice hobby cubbyhole setup (used to have my own office/hobby room, but my son--the ingrate!--evicted me when he was born), where I can build stuff and paint and generally make a mess without needing to clean up every night.  Oh yeah, I'm a big fan of HirstArts cast-your-own buildings, too, for those of you who might be familiar with them.

Anyway, thanks for the kind words of welcome.  I'll try to post some pictures of my hobby area soon.

 

[wm3798]

Take some time and think about what you want to accomplish with your layout.  You can pack a lot of action into a 2x4 package.  Check out the "theme" thread elsewhere on this forum, and put some thought into the concepts discussed there.

Or just go ahead and build those wreck ramps with the Life Like track!  

But seriously folks...  There are plenty of good websites that feature small layout designs.  Just google small model railroads n scale and you'll have plenty to think about!

Welcome aboard, don't be a stranger.

Lee 

[Blue Flamer]

      Hyun.

The "N" Crowd is a great place to get answers to your questions. And yes, you will definitely have questions. As was mentioned earlier, the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

Good luck to you and your son on building your RR Empire.

Blue Flamer. 

[Wdlgln005]

Welcome to Nscale!

The GP20 can be a decent loco. There have been 2 versions produced by LL.

The older version has a proven split-frame design, but has Rapido couplers. It is easy to convert to MTL couplers. Many online vendors like BLW list the conversion on their website if you can't find it in the MTL tables. Walthers may have the last of these old locos & sell them in trainsets like yours.

The newer version has updated couplers for about $60. 

The LL freight cars are decent. You may have the last NE style caboose. THey are very easy to convert to MTL couplers by swapping trucks. 

You get 2 nice old LL building kits. Paint them & enjoy building them. You can add to the church with Hallmark church building ornaments.

Now for the bad. At least the LL EZlock track is nickel silver. You could get very lucky if you can find any LL track at the closeout section of Hobby Lobby. Otherwise, you will need to get the adapter track to get any other brand of Code 80 rail to mate with it. THis severely limits the kind of layouts you can build with it. You would be better off getting Kato Unitrak sets if you need plastic roadbed track.

THe DC controller is also limited. It may be OK to get you started. As time & money permits, you can upgrade to DCC or something else later. While the GP20isn't DCC-ready, it can be converted with some work.  

 

[nscaler711]

i have photos in three places around the net  if you have a chance look them up

http://nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-791.html

http://gallery.zealot.com/showgallery.php?cat=572

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewPicture&friendID=137032947&albumId=874590 

[pcarrell]

Hyun,

To the forum!

I think your story is very familiar to a lot of us.  This whole forum is a great place, but the guys around here are real N scale wizards.  If you've got questions, this is the place.  The only stupid question is the one you didn't ask!

So have you thought about what you'd like to do with that 2x4 space yet?

(Notice I didn't say a word about the train set?   Not saying it's bad or good.  I model steam only, so I don't know.)

Oh, and that reading.....keep it up.  You'll learn a lot that way.  Then you can ask your questions and get the answers you really want. 

[Anonymous]

Howdy folks.  I've been lurking for the past few days, going through this thread (haven't finished yet!), and decided to register and participate.

I got my start with model trains over 20 years ago as a kid living in England.  Had a Hornby set that my brother handed down to me and enjoyed it very much.  I have no idea what type of locomotive it was, or what types of cars it hauled--all I remember is the fun I had with it.  And I cringe at the memory of getting bored with the oval track and staging progressively bigger hurdles and accidents, until the set inevitably broke.

Now I'm in my late 30s, and my wife and I have a two-year old son.  He loves trains, and loves to watch the "I Love Toy Trains" DVDs.  So you see where this is going.  After watching the DVDs with him for about 100th time, I finally succumbed and decided to check out model railroading again.  Got myself (not my son, but for me! ) a Bachmann HO Thomas set for cheap, and oh boy was that fun (the round track with no scenery notwithstanding).  So the past month or so has been an orgy of reading and researching and checking out websites.  I think I'm more inclined for HO scale by temperament (ducking for cover), but because of space issues, I've decided to go with N scale.   I have cleared a spot in my hobby cubbyhole for a 2x4' layout.

I wish I had found this forum last week, because earlier in the week I placed my first N scale order.  I'm normally one of those who laugh at folks buying something first then asking in forums whether it's a good idea or not, but in this case, I'm guilty of it.  After reading a lot and also considering the pros and cons of buying a starter set or individual components, I decided to go with a set and got a Life-Like Rail Legends Freight Set with a GP20 in Union Pacific scheme:

http://walthers.com/exec/productinfo/433-7523

... and am eagerly waiting for it.  And notice how I haven't asked if it was a good purchase or not! 

Sorry for the long-winded intro.  Just wanted to say "hi" and introduce myself in preparation for the gazillion questions that I'm sure will be forthcoming.  I'm enjoying reading this thread (only on p. 23 so far!) and appreciate the friendliness and helpfulness of the bunch here.

Hyun. 

 

[pcarrell]

Just go real slowly.  Use the bit at high speed, but only for a couple seconds at a time.  If you heat that frog up too much it'll melt the plastic ties and your turnout will be ruined.  ( Don't ask me how I know........ )

[NNeil]

  Thanks for the advice.  My wife has been talking about buying me a dremel tool set.  Now I've got my first project to use it for.

[R. T. POTEET]

  A few months ago I started building a new layout and I decided to change completely to Atlas code 55.

Although rolling stock passes smoothly over the #5 turnouts, all of my locos including a brand new Atlas loco rock quite severely when passing over the frog.  There have even been occassional derailments from this.  This isn't just a problem with one or two turnouts but all of them.

Anyone else try Atlas code 55 and have this problem?

Some of the earlier release #5 turnouts weren't deep enough through the frog.  This has been corrected in the tooling and is no longer an issue.  If you have some of the early turnouts you can take a dremel tool with a small saw bit (like http://www.dremel.com/en-us/attachments-and-accessories/attachment-accessory-detail.htm?H=188537&G=66237&I=66279 ) and route out the flange channel to deepen it some.  You have to work slowly though so that you don't heat up the metal too much and melt the plastic ties.

Twenty plus years ago when I was getting my feet wet on scratchbuilding switches most of my troubles boiled down to flangeways being too shallow; more than one of my lokes from the eighties went on the ties trying to negotiate switchwork.

[pcarrell]

Yes, it is!

No problem.  I've had to do this myself, thats how I know.

[chaya]

Thanks for the tip--and the link, Phillip.  (A picture is worth a thousand words, isn't it?)

[pcarrell]

  A few months ago I started building a new layout and I decided to change completely to Atlas code 55.

Although rolling stock passes smoothly over the #5 turnouts, all of my locos including a brand new Atlas loco rock quite severely when passing over the frog.  There have even been occassional derailments from this.  This isn't just a problem with one or two turnouts but all of them.

Anyone else try Atlas code 55 and have this problem?

Some of the earlier release #5 turnouts weren't deep enough through the frog.  This has been corrected in the tooling and is no longer an issue.  If you have some of the early turnouts you can take a dremel tool with a small saw bit (like http://www.dremel.com/en-us/attachments-and-accessories/attachment-accessory-detail.htm?H=188537&G=66237&I=66279 ) and route out the flange channel to deepen it some.  You have to work slowly though so that you don't heat up the metal too much and melt the plastic ties.

[Cederstrand]

Great shots of your layout. And I do love that handsome motive power, being a big UP fan myself. Nice work! -Rob

[NS2591]

Hey Guys

I've been busy today. I'm almost done with the benchwork for the branchline. I'm hoping that in a few weeks I'll have the track laid up to the the coal mine. and I also went the LHS today picked up a couple more decoders and some rolling stock. Anyways heres the pictures

Here is the east end of Alma Ill.

Here is the West End of Alma Ill.

Here is Alma Elevator and Implement(to be built)

Here is the Penninsula that has the City of Alma on oneside and the Coal mine on the other

Here is the Coal Mine

This the Location of the tunnel entrance where the mainline goes under the branchline. The main goes under the coal mine area

Here is the Unnamed Jct. Where the Branchline splits off of the mainline. Its also the site of the West end of the Unnamed Siding.

 

 

[CascadeBob]

I have just finished installing the lighting in my future basement train room and am now ready to start building benchwork and developing a final track plan for my N scale dream layout.

The train room is 28' x 22'.  I plan to adapt a portion of the benchwork configuration of Dave Barrow's Cat Mountain and Santa Fe as described in his article in the September 1999 issue of Model Railroader on page 61.  The portion I plan to use is the left 2/3 of the benchwork seen in the diagram on page 61.  A similar layout configuration can be seen in Tommy Holt's layout illustrated on page 37 in Model Railroad Planning - 2007.  It will be a linear walkaround with 24" wide shelves off the walls.  A "J" shaped peninsula having 24" wide benchwork on either side of a scenery divider will extend into the center of the room and run parallel with the long axis of the room.  There will be a duck-under or movable bridge near one corner of the room to allow access.  I plan to have a large classification yard along one of the 22' walls that can be 16'-18' long and 30" wide with an engine facility at one end incorporating a turntable and roundhouse.  Given the available space, I think I can use 24" as the minimum radius and use #6 turnouts as the minimum with mostly #8's on the main line.  I'm still trying to decide on a single or double main line.

I like to run passenger trains and long freights.  I want to have sufficient industries to justify the freight traffic and to provide switching opportunities.  I want to have the trains appear to go from place to place without going through the same scene twice, thus my interest in the linear walkaround configuration.  While I do not model a specific railroad, I want to set my layout in the western US in a mountainous area.

Since Dave Barrow's layout was set in Texas where it is relatively flat, my question is how can this type of linear walkaround track plan be adapted to mountainous terrain without creating the appearance of a wedding cake with layers of track?  I realize that you can create the illusion of varying terrain heights by having the scenery elements rise or fall above or below the track level.  Also can any one give me a reference for a linear walkaround track plan that is set in mountainous terrain?  Any other suggestions will be apprciated.

Bob

[mls1621]

Rail fanning in the tiny mountains of my layout.

It's been dry in the high desert and the river is running low.

Along came a Turbine.

43 cars later.

I hope you all like these guys.

 

[chaya]

  A few months ago I started building a new layout and I decided to change completely to Atlas code 55.

Although rolling stock passes smoothly over the #5 turnouts, all of my locos including a brand new Atlas loco rock quite severely when passing over the frog.  There have even been occassional derailments from this.  This isn't just a problem with one or two turnouts but all of them.

Anyone else try Atlas code 55 and have this problem?

 

 

[mls1621]

It is necessary to clean the weathering off of the rails at the rail joiners  and at the power connecting points so the solder with adhere.  Then run a brite boy over the tops to remove the weathered finish from the rail head.

After that, it's simply a matter of normal maintenance.