The "N" Crowd

[Bergie]

Hi guys,

Routine maintenance time...

I'm going to lock this thread. Someone please feel free to start "part II" of the N crowd.

Again, just a little spring maintenace... the forum shouldn't be dragging around a thread 71 pages long and over 1400 posts.

Thanks,
Bergie

[Packers#1]

Take the same money and buy four Atlas diesels...

Lee 

Never truer words to live by.

[Anonymous]

Take the same money and buy four Atlas diesels...

Like the prototype, steam in N scale is a maintenance hog....

Lee 

 

HA HA!

I love the look of a well done N scale steam engine...in the display shelf!

[Dallas Model Works]

Can anybody suggest a manufacturer(s) of decent mid 19th century rolling stock, specifically passenger, in N scale?

Something craftsman maybe? I haven't been able to turn up much and wondered if something had escaped my search.

Thanks!

 

[Blue Flamer]

Philip.

Thanks for the heads up on that. The problem is not so much the pain, as the inability to close the hand to make a fist. The main problem is the damaged knuckles, the result of ramming them into brick, concrete and stone walls when the 18" & 24" pipe wrenches would slip while installing gas meters over a period of about 25 years of my 41 year career with the local gas co. The Doc says that the cure would be much more trouble and painful than the problems that I now have. These problems only started to show up about 5 years ago and that was 5 years after I retired.

Thanks for the info anyway. I have some Tylenol 3's that the Doc prescribed for when my herniated discs act up. Hint: Do not take two of those just after you drink a can of coke. I did ONCE and 15 minutes later I was cackleing like an idiot over nothing and it took the wife 20 minutes, (her story) to get me upstairs and into bed.

Blue Flamer. 

[pcarrell]

Blue Flamer, talk to your doctor about "Hydrocodone".  It's a pain killer.  My wifes doctor gave her some 10mg tabs of that to kill the pain of her friend Arthur Itis until he could get her into surgery to fix it perminately.

[Blue Flamer]

Perhaps one day I can hire someone with better eyes to finish pimping it out for me.

Rob, there might be legal issues to "pimping it out", but maybe an optivisor would be a good investment for dressing it (and other items around the layout) up.  I don't think there's any laws about dressing up.

Rob.

Definitly an Optivisor. These almost 69 year old eyes use TRI-focals (no typo) to see with.    With the help of a three power $15.00 Optivisor I have no trouble working with small parts. Even those tiny Micro Trains coupler mounting screws look like 12" long lag bolts.    The only problem now is, how to get rid of that sneaky guy Arthur Itis in my right hand (and wouldn't you know it, I'm right handed) that is getting worse. I can reliably use only my thumb and forefinger now, but I plod on. I would use my left hand more, but I can't blow my nose reliably with my left hand.    Missed the Kleenex again. 

Blue Flamer. 

[pcarrell]

Perhaps one day I can hire someone with better eyes to finish pimping it out for me.

Rob, there might be legal issues to "pimping it out", but maybe an optivisor would be a good investment for dressing it (and other items around the layout) up.  I don't think there's any laws about dressing up.

[jwar]

Please accept my humble apology for sneaking into your N space. Looking for the rail to rail measurment for the N scale Walters overhead crane 933-3810. Im thinking of cutting it up for a light weight application, but need the hooks and trolly.

Thanks in advance...John

[Cederstrand]

***Philip, I still have one of the first runs with no traction tire and separate details (still not installed). It indeed runs very smooth, quiet and has excellent creep speed, so I have held onto it. Perhaps one day I can hire someone with better eyes to finish pimping it out for me.

Rob

[fluff]

shopping now!!!

[pcarrell]

No problem!  Do this and you'll be out pulling with the diesels!  Double head it, and look out!

[fluff]

36 cars on a 2% grade! i can live with that. i see what you mean now. i was thinking about the old days on ho where you just added a band. swapping the driver makes more sense, especially on n scale. it should do great on almost level track and 20 inch radius curves.(i like to boast about the big curves). directions and all info much appreciated!!!!

[pcarrell]

had a kato 2-8-2 once, poor puller

You absolutely have to add the Traction Tire upgrade or it'll always be a poor puller.  Adding that upgrade makes Bruce Banner turn into The Incredible Hulk.  She'll climb the walls and be a real stump puller.  Without it though.....yard queen!

now i want one again ?  i think on mine, around 10 cars or so was about it.

That sounds about right for level track with good rolling cars and no TT (Traction Tire).  With traction tires my Mike pulls 36 cars up 2% grade, no problem. 

do the traction tires make it lean any? are they thin enough not to notice? or, is the driver where traction tire goes made to accomidate the traction tire? sorry for all the questions....thanks

No problem!  The actual wheel is grooved so that the TT fits in the grove.  The only way you'd notice it, besides the pulling power, is that the tread of the tire is black where the rubber is.  Normally you're not going to notice that.  You can get the TT upgrade at most well stocked hobby shops, and I think they're like $7-$8 at mine, so not too bad.  You typically swap it for the last driving axle, though I've heard of some who use it as the next to last axle, and just make sure that everything lines up and then button it back up.  Obviously, you lose some electrical pickup when you do this, but the Kato Mikado doesn't really have too many problems in this area anyways so it's not a real big deal.  Here's the official instructions: http://www.katousa.com/N/Mikado/maint/ttire.html

[fluff]

had a kato 2-8-2 once, poor puller

You absolutely have to add the Traction Tire upgrade or it'll always be a poor puller.  Adding that upgrade makes Bruce Banner turn into The Incredible Hulk.  She'll climb the walls and be a real stump puller.  Without it though.....yard queen!

now i want one again ?  i think on mine, around 10 cars or so was about it. do the traction tires make it lean any? are they thin enough not to notice? or, is the driver where traction tire goes made to accomidate the traction tire? sorry for all the questions....thanks

[pcarrell]

had a kato 2-8-2 once, poor puller

You absolutely have to add the Traction Tire upgrade or it'll always be a poor puller.  Adding that upgrade makes Bruce Banner turn into The Incredible Hulk.  She'll climb the walls and be a real stump puller.  Without it though.....yard queen!

[fluff]

Take the same money and buy four Atlas diesels...

Like the prototype, steam in N scale is a maintenance hog....

Lee 

i have around 30 diesels. only 3 atlas's for some reason. an sd 60 demo and 2 mkt gp 40s. atlas from now on. love mine. had a kato 2-8-2 once, poor puller

[R. T. POTEET]

4-6-6-4 Challenger, I hate to be the bearer of bad tidings but you aint got enough geography for 30" radius curves, not to try to install on a layout of the nature of your drawing; allowing for a 3" scenery buffer around the edge it takes five and a half feet to turnback a 30" radius curve. That only leaves you two and a half feet for tangent between the ends of the curves; that is only barely longer than a football field and it is hardly big enough for any kind of a walk-in space. Do some arithmetic - a twenty four inch shelf with a thirty inch wide walk-in aisle subtracted from an eight foot width leaves you a forty two inch peninsula and when you subtract another six inches for that scenery buffer you are left with an eighteen inch radius curve. A thirty inch radius curve in N Scale equates to a 55" radius curve in HO Scale and there are HO Scalers out there who would kill for room to install a 30" radius curve - 16.5 inches in N Scale - let alone a 55 " radius one.

Model railroading is, in essence, a practice in illusion. Whatever size curve you eventually decide upon - 18/19.5 inch is my suggestion - you need to curve your tangents away from the table edge. Tangent track which parallels your platform edge will cut down on the illusion of depth and make your layout seem very toylike. This parallelism can be mitigated with near eye-level platform heighth but remember, if your track is running one foot beneath your eye level you are, in effect, looking at your layout from a 160 foot tall platform. I make this case almost a fetish. I am designing my platform heighth at 56 inches above the floor, one foot below the top of my head and a mere five inches below the level of my peepers, a scale 66 feet and eight inches; even then there are only limited places where my tangents parallel my platform edge.

Curving your track away from the table edge has one additional benefit: it allows you to use the area outside your track for scenic development. Seeing your train passing behind scenery such as structures will help to break the monotony of our short train lengths and add to the illusion that our twenty car freight is, in reality, one hundred cars long. Now that is illusion!  

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

Ya I know I forgot to put the cross over on the 2nd layout.  Thanks tho I am going to put some in if I go with the layout.  I would say that the 1st layout just seems to cramed and not organized I just cant find a way to organize it very well.  So Just post comments on the 2nd layout.

[Dave Vollmer]

Yes.

A number 6 turnout in N scale is 6" long (that's two squares).  To have a parallel siding with a number 6 turnout you'll need a full foot (4 squares).

Now, you can use #4s by Peco that are much shorter, but don't expect to run an 0-8-0 through them without some fuss.  I used them once, and basically had to confine myself to small 4-axle diesel switchers on that part of the line.

I now use number 8 turnouts for all but industrial trackage, where I use #6s.  My trains are much happier now.

As for the rest of the plan, I haven't really done a full analysis...  But overall it looks like, with fewer yard tracks, you can do it.

EDIT:  On the second plan, you don't have a crossover between the double-track mains.

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

Even tho the the graph paper is 1/4" and the squares equal 3" each?  If so do i just need to change my yard around is every thing else fine?

[Dave Vollmer]

Challenger:

If I may be frank:

Overall concept: great!!!  Looks really good.  The only downside, and this is a big one, is that you've crammed far more industrial/yard trackage than will actually fit in that space.

You may want to invest in a template (Walthers offers one) or check online for one to see just how much room those turnouts need.  I'm afraid you'll find that turnouts and yard trackage are far bigger space hogs that you might think at first.

I like the second plan better, but you'll need to trim down on the yard trackage.

Good luck!

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

What do you think of my two layout they are both 12x8ft if it were a rectange.  Which one do you like better on the first one it has an industry as in a steel mill on the left side in the blank space.  The second one is my favorite, it seems to flow more.  Let me know which one you like better or what you would do to change it.  The layout is in N scale and all of the curves on the main line are 30" radius curves.  Thanks all the help will be great.

 

 

[UP Clark]

I've just rekindled the "spirit" and will soon be moving to DCC myself. Most of my motive power has been in storage for 5 to 6 years and right out of the gate needed cleaning and lubrication. Now that I've got most everthing running decent, I'm really seeing the speed differential of Atlas vs Kato vs Brass Imports. I picked up a Kato SD-90MAC and a AC-4400 recently, man was I surprised at the difference in running speeds. I usually buy locos in 2's or 3's so I've got double and triple head power that breaks in together and maintains equal relative speeds between them in a consist.

Fortunately, until I get into DCC, I've been able to match up a few older locos  with the performance of the newer pieces. With max. 2% grades, all trains have to be at least doubleheaded.

What I probably read was that the SD-90's have an updated gear ratio. If the Ac-4400 I picked had as many miles as the C44's, it would slow down a lot also! LOL!!!

Sorry for the rant, read faster and it won't seem so long!!! 

 

 

[R. T. POTEET]

Mr. Poteet,

Yup, by all means, go there.  DCC does offer the ability to speed match decoderized locomotives.  I hesitate to say that it will match them to a DC locomotive though.  Older DC stuff was made with high speed mechanisms and DCC will not make it go faster than DC.  Other than that, if you have the money to spend on DCC and the time to spend speed matching then you will save on the time and money spent on matching traditional DC locomotives.  It's a case of realtively certain costs to luck of the draw.  This is just my take on things.

The choice is up to the one spending the money.

Bob

Bob, I do understand exactly what you are saying: a decoder can put out no more than 12 volts to the motor. Some of my Kato locomotives are approaching twenty years of age and I expect that I am going to find it necessary to remotor and/or regear a goodly portion of my diesel fleet to establish DCC compatability; I expect that that is going to be considerably cheaper than reengining the whole kitnkaboodle.

RETAININGLY/RESTRAININGLY yours

R. T. POTEET

[navygunner]

Mr. Poteet,

Yup, by all means, go there.  DCC does offer the ability to speed match decoderized locomotives.  I hesitate to say that it will match them to a DC locomotive though.  Older DC stuff was made with high speed mechanisms and DCC will not make it go faster than DC.  Other than that, if you have the money to spend on DCC and the time to spend speed matching then you will save on the time and money spent on matching traditional DC locomotives.  It's a case of realtively certain costs to luck of the draw.  This is just my take on things.

The choice is up to the one spending the money.

Bob

[R. T. POTEET]

Got a new question for everyone, are the mechanism and gear rations on the Kato AC-4400 the same as the older C44-9's? I just picked up a new AC-4400 and it's much faster than the older C44's. I understand all about break-in etc. I thaought I had read theat the AC-4400 has a "more prototypical speed" drive"?

It is highly probable that somewhere along the line in the interest of company profitability Kato came up with a cheaper motor and has begun installing it in their more recent releases hence the speed difference. I am not into DCC . . . . . YET . . . . . but I am going to go there; I have a real hodge-podge of N Scale diesels and although most of them are Atlas and Katos they do tell me that one of the really significant factors in DCC is the overcoming of the speed differentials associated with different manufacturers and different locomotives within manufacturers.

RETAININGLY/RESTRAININGLY yours

R. T. POTEET 

[UP Clark]

Got a new question for everyone, are the mechanism and gear rations on the Kato AC-4400 the same as the older C44-9's? I just picked up a new AC-4400 and it's much faster than the older C44's. I understand all about break-in etc. I thaought I had read theat the AC-4400 has a "more prototypical speed" drive"?

[Packers#1]

Packers#1, glad to have you aboard in the hobby and here on the forum.

I hate to do a Frank Luke on you but you ain't gonna do a "lots of sidings, 5 track yard w/ turntable" in a 4X8 layout space, not unless you are planning on incorporating some incredibly sharp curves to accompany that "incredibly steep grade". You would be hard pressed to incorporate all those features into a midwestern flatland pike, let alone into a "modern-day freelanced railroad that hauls over the Appalachian mountains".

How much trackage do you think you can cram into a 4X8, even in N Scale, without it looking like a 4X8 with a lot of crammed trackage? You are going to want to avoid a the-rat-disappeared-in-that-hole-where-will-it-come-out? bowl of spaghetti. Believe me when I say that your ambition is just a little bit farther than your reach is going to be. KISS!!!!! Examine posted photographs by Dave Vollmer; Dave's layout is built on a hollow core 36X80 inch interior door. That area is smaller than yours but Dave's layout is a master of craftsmanship although only a simple oval with a couple of sidings and virtually no grade at all. I, as well as most other N Scalers, are duly impressed with his modeling. Dave, I understand, acquired a lot of his modeling skills at his pappy's side but, just like the rest of us, he had to crawl before he ever walked and he walked before he ever ran.

Model railroading is, in essence, a practice of illusion; I am not trying to be discouraging; more than anything else I want you to keep from choking on too big of a bite and getting discouraged. I am, unfortunately, almost sure that that is where you are headed if you set your mind to trying to do what you are advocating.

To clear things up, here's some pics for my layout:

Front of yard

Back of yard

Industries