I'm going to build a layout around the size of Dave V's, for a whole host of reasons. I found the following for under $40.
[Masonite/"brand name" 36 x 80 x 1-3/8 In. Flush Hardwood Hollow Core Bored Slab]
I just made a heavy 2x4 frame and glued/screwed a plywood top to it. However, it is very heavy without anything built on it yet. So my question is, should I bag the HEAVY table and start over with an actual door as listed above? I keep thinking of the weight factor if I should ever need to move the layout in the future. I will also be glueing a thick slab of insulation foam to it/
You thoughts and suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks! Rob
Take the same money and buy four Atlas diesels...
Like the prototype, steam in N scale is a maintenance hog....
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Hold the phone folks! I'm getting a news flash! Wait.... I'm a N scale model railroader! Yes, I am on the darkside & brightside (dark= n scale. bright=ho scale) . I have started building a simple layout that goes back & forth with no loops. My railroad is based on a coaling railroad.
No name for it yet!
- Luke
Modeling the Southern Pacific in the 1960's-1980's
The programs are nice...but they confuzzle me too. Good ol fashioned graph paper works. Pick a scale that works (like 1 square equals 3 inches by 3 inches) and plan your layout. That way, you can get a very good idea of the space various curves and turnouts use. Atlas even makes a small template that you can use to trace the space various turnouts, curves, etc occupy on the layout. You can look through a catalog, and even place buildings on the plan when you know the building's "footprint".
And as a bonus, its a lot of fun (for me anyways!)
have fun!
Tim
Sawyer Berry
Clemson University c/o 2018
Building a protolanced industrial park layout
4-6-6-4 Challenger,
I can't advise you strongly enough to get some kind of actual planning software or some drawing templates to plan your RR. The drawings that you have posted so far are nice for getting a general idea of what you want, but to be real honest, the tracks you have planned won't fit, and they won't work as drawn for proper traffic flow. I think you'll only end up discouraged and frustrated in the end.
Of the free online software downloads the Atlas RTS 7.0 software is probably the easiest to use, though it's not real powerful. It'll do the trick though. I use it for most of my plans. You can download it for free right here. Make sure you register it (also free) to unlock all of the tools and features.
I'd also suggest (HIGHLY) that you get a copy of John H Armstrong's "Track Planning for Realistic Operation". It may be the best money you ever spend on your RR. I know I've had my copy for a decade or more and I still read it from time to time and I always find something new in it.
I know several of us have suggested these things already, and it's only because we want you to succeed in your endeavors. We don't want you to have to learn the hard way. I know it's hard to hold back the enthusiasm, and hopefully you never lose that excitement for the hobby, but we want to help you channel it into it's most productive path, thats all.
pcarrell wrote:. . . . . . . . . . It may......whats the wheelbase length (front wheel center to back wheel center) of a Big Boy? Since a Big Boy is 85'-10" + 47'-0" = 132'-10" total, I would think it would fit on there with a little extra. The real test is in the actual wheelbase though. The key question is, what is the wheelbase on a Big Boy? . . . . . . . . .
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Here is my U shape layout I have draw up.
Picture 1
Picture 2
Which one do you like better?
I am working on a small layout in N, since i live in a small apartment. A coal mine with delivery tracks, and maybe a length of "mainline" going by in the foreground. Ill probably stay with about a 2x3 foot size for this one, just make it part switching puzzle (my train can back onto the mainline to do movements) and part diorama. A small layout like this, i am hoping, can still show some real "scenery" in the background, at least suggesting being in the West Virginia mountains. For ME, this is a good small N layout, as its the subject I like. To someone else, a loco servicing facility or a busy industrial park would be what they want to model. I dont reccomend doing all 3 on 1 small layout, though. I may give my mine a small loco of its own, perhaps with a repair track and small water tank (they can fill the tender from the tipple). Perhaps this mine is busy enough (and a good enough customer!) they managed to lease a Connie or 0-8-0 from B&O?
As far as grades are concerned, i hope beyond hope to have a good representative model of the B&O's West End someday. That means grades, and STEEP grades at that. Cranberry was 12 miles of 2.7%. Loaded trains moved east (up cranberry) and often took 2 or 3 hours to make that leg of the trip. Grades will slow a railroad to a crawl....but i would give anything to have been able to stand trackside, while 3 huge mallets fought their way up that grade at speeds so slow you could walk beside them, and i do plan to try and incorporate that into the "hypothetical layout".
I also am prepared to do a lot of modification, and run 3 2-8-8-0s to get 30 or 40 cars up that grade....but hey, wait a minute. So did the real B&O!
FWIW.....4% is too much for any mainline. Some branchlines might have approached this in coal country, but odds are that would be a loco on a mine run with just a couple of cars. I dont know of a mainline in the US with grades that steep (I believe parts of the NS in North Carolina and Virginia are close, but i think they have also abandoned those lines)
pcarrell wrote:According to this, the wheelbase on a Big Boy was 117' 7"......plenty of room to fit on that turntable!
Thanks, Now I will add a turn table to my layout.
4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote:So your say that a 134ft big boy will fit on a 130ft turntable?
It may......whats the wheelbase length (front wheel center to back wheel center) of a Big Boy? Since a Big Boy is 85'-10" + 47'-0" = 132'-10" total, I would think it would fit on there with a little extra. The real test is in the actual wheelbase though. The key question is, what is the wheelbase on a Big Boy?
Also I am a little confused on how what you are talking about as far as how to get my 2.5% grade.
If you have a "U" shaped layout with turnback blobs on each end you'll have a longer run, and therefore can either ease the grade to gain the same height, or keep the same grade to gain greater height, then a similar simple loop plan. The only exception to that might be a twice around plan, but then you're back to the duck-under problem.
Tell ya what......I'm going to give you (and anyone else reading this) the guest password to my photobucket site. I've worked on lots of layout plans with lots of people, so you'll see plans there done by other people and you'll see some of my plans too. Some are better then others and some have issues. Others are fine plans. Take a look at those plans and you'll se what I mean. It'll also maybe start some creative juices flowing. The password is maggie and here's the link: http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track%20Plans/ (Don't forget the sub-pages of plans too!)
I tell you what, mail the Big Boy to me, and I'll check it out on my 130' table!
Kidding... of course...
And yes, the U shape will give you a physically longer run, which will help spread out the grade. I always use the rule of thumb that a rise of 1" over 8' of track is just under 1% (1" in 96") That works out to a hair over three lengths of 30" flex track. So, if you're going to rise 2-1/2" on a 1% grade, you'll need about 20 lineal feet of track. Increase the grade to 1-1/2%, or 2% and you can shorten the run accordingly, but it will impact the length of train you'll be able to pull.
4-6-6-4 Challenger wrote: I like the idea of getting ride of the hole in the middle but how can I get my 2.5%grade that I want and be able to go back up and then down fast enough to get down to the level of my yard and steel mill.
I like the idea of getting ride of the hole in the middle but how can I get my 2.5%grade that I want and be able to go back up and then down fast enough to get down to the level of my yard and steel mill.
Actually, the grade is easier to put in and can have a bigger effect on a walk-in plan as you go around the outside edge and the inside edge of the "U" instead of just doing a loop. The run is much longer.
Also I cant find a turntable that will fit a BIG BOY because it is 134ft long and the biggest turntable I can find is a 130ft one. I am not a member of MR but would like to be so I cant get ahold of those layout examples.
Your TT only needs to be as long as the wheelbase of the loco, not the coupler to coupler length.
wm3798 wrote: 12x8 is a pretty good space for N scale. If the "control area" is a "donut hole" in the layout, I would nix that right away. Crawling under the table to run your trains will quickly become a pain in the butt, if not the knees.N scale gives you a pretty generous curve on a 36" wide platform, I would suggest changing your design to a U shape, where you can walk-in between two peninsulas. That will accomplish two things, first, it will provide the illusion of a longer run on your main, and second, it will keep you from hitting your head on the benchwork and upsetting your boxcars!I would also suggest that you get a piece of graph paper with a 1/4" grid, and draw a scaled plan of your space. You could also check out Atlas' RTS program, which is a free download from their website that can help you layout the track plan in either standard c80 snap track, or in c55.Also, while 8' can give you a pretty substantial steel mill complex, you might consider building a steel fabrication facility instead, and add several other industry to add some variety to your operations. And if you are planning to model the steam era, you'll definitely need a turntable in your engine terminal, so you'll need to make room for that.If you're an MR subscriber, there's an excellent on-line library of published track plans you can access. Key in mid-sized N scale, and there's a lot of really good examples that will give you some ideas.Lee
12x8 is a pretty good space for N scale. If the "control area" is a "donut hole" in the layout, I would nix that right away. Crawling under the table to run your trains will quickly become a pain in the butt, if not the knees.
N scale gives you a pretty generous curve on a 36" wide platform, I would suggest changing your design to a U shape, where you can walk-in between two peninsulas. That will accomplish two things, first, it will provide the illusion of a longer run on your main, and second, it will keep you from hitting your head on the benchwork and upsetting your boxcars!
I would also suggest that you get a piece of graph paper with a 1/4" grid, and draw a scaled plan of your space. You could also check out Atlas' RTS program, which is a free download from their website that can help you layout the track plan in either standard c80 snap track, or in c55.
Also, while 8' can give you a pretty substantial steel mill complex, you might consider building a steel fabrication facility instead, and add several other industry to add some variety to your operations. And if you are planning to model the steam era, you'll definitely need a turntable in your engine terminal, so you'll need to make room for that.
If you're an MR subscriber, there's an excellent on-line library of published track plans you can access. Key in mid-sized N scale, and there's a lot of really good examples that will give you some ideas.
I like the idea of getting ride of the hole in the middle but how can I get my 2.5%grade that I want and be able to go back up and then down fast enough to get down to the level of my yard and steel mill. Also I cant find a turntable that will fit a BIG BOY because it is 134ft long and the biggest turntable I can find is a 130ft one. I am not a member of MR but would like to be so I cant get ahold of those layout examples.
What do all of you N SCALE EXPERTS think of this design? Will all of this fit onto a 12ftx8ft layout? Is there anything else that I can add or will I be able to fill all the space up with what I am wanting? The top of the picture is going to be my highest point and the bottem of the picture is going to be level ground. The steel mill and steam shop and yard are all going to be on level ground so it look as if it is in a valley. I am going to run 2 main lines around the edge of the layout, they are going to go in opposite directions. I am also thinking of putting 2 trustle bridges in on the elevated side of the layout. This is my improved version. What do you think?
Blue is main Line.
Brown in secondary line.
I shot this at Ohiopyle, PA a couple weeks ago...
As to your layout concerns, that would be doable.
gatrhumpy wrote: So my challenge is to run a railroad (Santa Fe) in a part of the country that it actually never saw (northeast).
So my challenge is to run a railroad (Santa Fe) in a part of the country that it actually never saw (northeast).
Thats no problem. Railroads have been pooling and leasing power from each other for many, many years. I live in Indiana and I saw a Ferromex (Mexican RR) loco come through here the other day. It happens.........
I'm not talking about putting plastic stuff just anywhere on the layout. I don't have a lot of room, and I would like to go to train shows (or make the layout portable) if possible. 2.5' X 4' is probably the largest amount of space I have available. My wife thinks it's going in the garage, but it's too dusty there, and in the Florida heat, not a great environment. I plan on putting it in a spare bedroom or the dining room, but my wife doesn't know that yet. I want to make it look nice so that it will blend in the with dining room.
So as you can see I don't have a lot of space to do stuff with. My primary concerns are:
1.) I have two Santa fe engines (GP60 and GP38-2). I plan on using them on the layout.
2.) I would like to model a trucking industry, mainly St. Johnsbury before they went out of business in 1993. So mainly I'm modeling the 1992-1993 timeframe. I like the Pike trucking terminal in N scale, and plan on modifying it to look like a typical St. Johnsbury trucking terminal.
gatrhumpy wrote:We'll see how much I can get packed in in a 2.5' X 4' layout.
Generally speaking, this kind of thing signals a red flag.
While N scale is physically smaller, it's true benefits are not realized by cramming more stuff into a given area. By adding more things one usually ends up with a less realistic and more toylike scene in the end. There are exceptions to this, such as a busy urban area that has lots of closely packed buildings, or maybe a large single industry with lots of trackage like a steel mill or paper factory, but those are the exceptions to the rule.
N scale has the advantage of offering a large scenery to trains ratio, and it's often best to build on that advantage and exploit it to it's fullest. Things like mountains that actually dwarf the trains running through them, or seemingly endless rolling hills for your trains to run through.
However, as you're already thinking, you don't have that kind of space........or do you?
In 2.5x4 you could throw down a scenic divider down the middle of the layout (to seperate it into two distinct scenes) and model a modest interchange on one side and a small port scene on the other. This would allow you to haul virtually any kind of freight to and from your two destinations. Or you could have an interchange and a small yard with a RIP track. This would allow for quite a bit of flexability. You might also check into joining a local Ntrak group by clicking the link and then build a small section of a larger layout. Things like that.
Your track pack should have most of the pieces to do those kinds of things. I would encourage you to play around with it some and maybe build your own dream of a layout instead of somebody elses dream. Explore your creative side! Just a thought.......
I'm considering cutting the above dimensions in half to make it more portable (2.5' X 2'), and being able to connect the two halves somehow.
Dowel pins and suitcase connectors are quite usable. You could check out the Ntrak site I gave and see what they recommend too.
I just bought the track pack to the N scale Terrain for Trains Somkey Junction layout, although I am building the layout how I want it with roughly the same track plan (two train operation) with minor differences. We'll see how much I can get packed in in a 2.5' X 4' layout.
Thoughts.