The "N" Crowd

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

K will do. Ill get a more detailed one soon.

[wm3798]

I think you need to draw some track in so we know what the heck you're talking about...

Lee 

[R. T. POTEET]

Quoting Packers#1:

. . . . . . . . . . YOUS GUYS ARE CONFUSED . . . . . . . . . .

Not me! I am not confused! I am not absolutely positutely totally confused! And I have a strange feeling that I am not the only one who is not confused. 

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

What do all of you N SCALE EXPERTS think of this design?  Will all of this fit onto a 12ftx8ft layout?  Is there anything else that I can add or will I be able to fill all the space up with what I am wanting?  The top of the picture is going to be my highest point and the bottem of the picture is going to be level ground.  The steel mill and steam shop and yard are all going to be on level ground so it look as if it is in a valley.  I am going to run 2 main lines around the edge of the layout, they are going to go in opposite directions.  What do you think?

[Packers#1]

As the above post above my reply to R.T. Poteet states, yous guys are confused. The yard and sidings are on one layout. I will cut up  the current layout (pretty much 0 scenery) and reconfigure it. I might end up replanning the future RR to have a small grade and an island for road crews to set out cars. Just to clarify THE MONSTER GRADE WILL BE ON A FUTURE LAYOUT, NOT MY CURRENT ONE WITH THE SMALL YARD AND TON OF SIDINGS. Sorry for the all caps and the repeat post, but I want to make sure everyone is not confused. I guess I didn't clarify in my first post what's what.

[Packers#1]

Look, the yard and sidings are on my current 4x8. The monstor grade (over 4% guys) will be on a 6"shelf that accompanys a rebuild of my 4x8 into 2" wide sections. My current layout (no grade, period) only has an 8 ft. main (runs along front). Considering you guys saay that a large grade is VERY VERY VERY difficult for N scale locos, I guess I might replan.

[Blue Flamer]

Packers#1, glad to have you aboard in the hobby and here on the forum.

I hate to do a Frank Luke on you but you ain't gonna do a "lots of sidings, 5 track yard w/ turntable" in a 4X8 layout space, not unless you are planning on incorporating some incredibly sharp curves to accompany that "incredibly steep grade". You would be hard pressed to incorporate all those features into a midwestern flatland pike, let alone into a "modern-day freelanced railroad that hauls over the Appalachian mountains".

How much trackage do you think you can cram into a 4X8, even in N Scale, without it looking like a 4X8 with a lot of crammed trackage? You are going to want to avoid a the-rat-disappeared-in-that-hole-where-will-it-come-out? bowl of spaghetti. Believe me when I say that your ambition is just a little bit farther than your reach is going to be. KISS!!!!! Examine posted photographs by Dave Vollmer; Dave's layout is built on a hollow core 36X80 inch interior door. That area is smaller than yours but Dave's layout is a master of craftsmanship although only a simple oval with a couple of sidings and virtually no grade at all. I, as well as most other N Scalers, are duly impressed with his modeling. Dave, I understand, acquired a lot of his modeling skills at his pappy's side but, just like the rest of us, he had to crawl before he ever walked and he walked before he ever ran.

Model railroading is, in essence, a practice of illusion; I am not trying to be discouraging; more than anything else I want you to keep from choking on too big of a bite and getting discouraged. I am, unfortunately, almost sure that that is where you are headed if you set your mind to trying to do what you are advocating.

Packers#1.

  and     to The "N" crowd.

Please listen to the voices of experience. If you come up with a plan, post it here and ask for some feedback both positive AND negative if you really want help. The good folk around here will give you some input and some alternative ideas that may work to your advantage.

Remember, good planning and attention to detail will never steer you wrong.

Good luck.

Blue Flamer. 

[R. T. POTEET]

Packers#1, glad to have you aboard in the hobby and here on the forum.

I hate to do a Frank Luke on you but you ain't gonna do a "lots of sidings, 5 track yard w/ turntable" in a 4X8 layout space, not unless you are planning on incorporating some incredibly sharp curves to accompany that "incredibly steep grade". You would be hard pressed to incorporate all those features into a midwestern flatland pike, let alone into a "modern-day freelanced railroad that hauls over the Appalachian mountains".

How much trackage do you think you can cram into a 4X8, even in N Scale, without it looking like a 4X8 with a lot of crammed trackage? You are going to want to avoid a the-rat-disappeared-in-that-hole-where-will-it-come-out? bowl of spaghetti. Believe me when I say that your ambition is just a little bit farther than your reach is going to be. KISS!!!!! Examine posted photographs by Dave Vollmer; Dave's layout is built on a hollow core 36X80 inch interior door. That area is smaller than yours but Dave's layout is a master of craftsmanship although only a simple oval with a couple of sidings and virtually no grade at all. I, as well as most other N Scalers, are duly impressed with his modeling. Dave, I understand, acquired a lot of his modeling skills at his pappy's side but, just like the rest of us, he had to crawl before he ever walked and he walked before he ever ran.

Model railroading is, in essence, a practice of illusion; I am not trying to be discouraging; more than anything else I want you to keep from choking on too big of a bite and getting discouraged. I am, unfortunately, almost sure that that is where you are headed if you set your mind to trying to do what you are advocating.

[navygunner]

4% grades will not work in N scale; unless you are dead set on adding a bunch of locomotives at the bottom of the grade.  There are quite a few locomotives out there that will barely pull their own weight, let alone a car or two.  4% and 3% grades are rarities in the real world due to the difficulty of making a locomotive that will deal with the rise reliably.

DCC and DC can coexist on a layout.  The DCC scheme is to use DC as a brake upon seeing DC.  I can not say that I see any use in having both as motive power on a layout.  Either you run DC or DCC.

I swap between the two as primary power to the layout, I've seen no benefit to mixing them in a single operating session.

These are just my thoughts on these subjects.

Bob

[dad1218]

Can I run a dcc train with a dc control?  Also can they go on the same track or do they need to be on special track

        The Digitrax Zepheyr (?) allows a DC power pack to be used as a throttle.

                  Gary

[Packers#1]

Nah, I'll keep it. I think it would make crews think on an otherwise easyt 16ft. run.

[Anonymous]

I am finally replying to this thread. My layout is a 4x8 ft. 1979 freelanced hauler. Lots of sidings. 5-track yard w/ turntable. I will reconfigure it to be a modern-day freelanced RR that hauls over the Appalachian mountains. Incredibly steep grade. Yard at each end. plenty of industries. That will start when my parents clear the attic out. All I have down is track and a touch of ballast, so it's not like I'm losing anything by chopping it up. Can't wait to start my new layout.   

Not trying to but in on this N scalers thread, (I'm in HO) but you might not want a steeo grade unless absulutly neccisary. I have a 4% grade on my layout, which doesn't serve any purpase other that justifing helpers, and it gets annoying.... runaway trains, traction problems, plus it looks a little unrealistic. Your choice, but I'd go with a shallower grade. If I was building my pass again, I'd buy the 2% instead of the 4% stuff. (woodland scenics grade.) 

[Dave Vollmer]

RT,

In keeping with my "model the ordinary, not the unsual" philosophy, I'm plenty happy with the much more common 5-stipe DGLE (Brunswick Green) than the more unusual (less than a dozen) Tuscan units.

[2-8-8-0]

As soon as i finish scratchbuilding my EM-1s, rest assured someone will release one

Cest la vie.

[R. T. POTEET]

Hey, RT...

Kato's GG1 announcement's up on their site!  Taking orders now!  Jeez, I can't wait for my tax refund...!

Glad to see it! Really am glad to see it!

As I said in a previous response once we get these **%*&*(&&^ toys - oh, Lord! I appear to have gotten my tongue stuck in my cheek here - out of the way we can get on with offerings of some serious steam engines, things like C&O H-8s, B&O EM1s, and DM&IR Ms as well as a simple 2-8-8-2 a la D&RGW or WP as well as ALCO FA/FB2s and ALCO RSD12s and RSD15s.

Ah, if wishes were fishes. . . . . . . . . .

Kato's website states that this beast is going to have the 1940's Brunswick Green 'five stripe' paint scheme. Does this make you happy? or would you rather have had the simpler Tuscan.

[Packers#1]

I am finally replying to this thread. My layout is a 4x8 ft. 1979 freelanced hauler. Lots of sidings. 5-track yard w/ turntable. I will reconfigure it to be a modern-day freelanced RR that hauls over the Appalachian mountains. Incredibly steep grade. Yard at each end. plenty of industries. That will start when my parents clear the attic out. All I have down is track and a touch of ballast, so it's not like I'm losing anything by chopping it up. Can't wait to start my new layout.   

[wm3798]

Go to Tony's Train Exchange on line and do some reading about the different systems that are available.  You'll find the answers to a lot of your questions there.

Lee 

[4-6-6-4 Challenger]

Can I run a dcc train with a dc control?  Also can they go on the same track or do they need to be on special track

[njtaxland]

right now I think my mind is just capable of dc control

[njtaxland]

hi, I was wondering if any of you fine modelers can help me, please forgive my ignorance  but here is my question, I am using kato unitrack on my layout. In all the or almost all the layouts that kato shows on their web site it shows where to place the terminal connectors for the propper running of the trains, now, if I choose to make my own layout how do I know where the propper placing of the connectors should be for the running of the trains. Thank you for your time and any help you may provide

 

Bruce

[R. T. POTEET]

I realize that from posted responses here on The "N" Crowd that many of you do not subscribe to {i]MR[/i] considering it to be N Scale hostile. I do subscribe to it and I would like to draw your attention to an article in the April '08 issue by Mr. Pelle Søeborg of Denmark.

Mr. Søeburg models in Horribly Oversized Scale but his layout is impressive and in this article he raises a very good modeling point; the appearance of your layout can be enhanced if you Vary the rail size.

I post this response for your consideration and encouragement. Many of you, as myself, are ex-HO Scalers and, also like myself, your first efforts in that scale used Code 100 track. On my last HO Scale layout, however, I opted to use Code 83 and Code 70; although that heighth only scaled out to 1 1/8 inches the difference in size was readily apparent - and, more prototypical, I would add - and when I bolted over to N Scale I went to Code 80/Code 55. I so liked the appearance of Rail Craft Code 55 that I have used it - and Micro Engineering, of course -  exclusively for almost 25 years now. I am, however, on my new/future Seaboard and Western Virginia Railway going to use Code 55 for mainline trackage and Micro Engineering Code 40 for sidetrackage - sidings and spurs. The height difference of .015" appears miniscule on the surface but it scales to 2.4 inches and this is both measurable and readily identifiable.

There is a problem with the use of Code 40 rail/track and that has to do with the availability of switches. At the present time, unless you build your own, you are going to be restricted to constructing Code 40 switches with BK Enterprises products, a bit on the expensive side. There is also the matter of availability of Code 40 flex; to the best of my knowledge Micro Engineering is the only company drawing this size rail and therefore, I would anticipate closely my needs because this could easily become a here-today-gone-tomorrow proposition.

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon;

 Blue Flamer - I enjoyed your story.  Just say, "Yes, dear" and head to Home Depot.  Sounds like a plan (lol)

work safe

[jkroft]

Back to the couplers....  I now only use MTs.  I've found that they work better than any other brand that I've tried.  First off, I tried to use the between-the-rails magnet without success.  They don't seem to split the couplers far enough apart...  once I back the cars away from the magnet, the couplers reattach, so I only use only under-the-track style.  Actually, HO McHenry magnets are great because they are slimmer than the MTs.  Second, I had a problem with accumates uncoupling when I desired them not to.  This may be due to the fact that the stock Atlas 53' Evans boxcars are too light and I hadn't weighted them correctly.  Accumates seem to couple to MTs and Katos just fine but Kato couplers don't like MTs.  So now everything has been changed to MTs with great success.  By the way, be careful to notice what kind of weight is used in rolling stock...  some weight bars are magnetic and tend to attract the car right over the center of the magnet.  This is obviously a pain during uncoupling.

[jwils1]

Thanks R.T.  Sounds interesting.  I'll give the floss a try.  I had a feeling that someone had probably worked out a system for this.

[R. T. POTEET]

..........Truck Retaining Springs:

I've been trying to install some of these to prevent the jerky motion when pulling a cut of cars at slow speed.  I've decided it's impossible, at least for me.  Out of a pack of 12 springs, I have about 3 left and none installed yet!  The rest have flown around the room somewhere.  So, my questions:

1.  What's the trick for installing these?..........

(Loose) parts can always be strung together using waxed dental floss. Get yourself a spool of ROUND floss; a piece about two inches in length should be fine for your purpose here but you may well be more comfortable with a longer piece; string the spring onto the floss, and when everything is fitted together, pull the floss loose. The wax on the floss will allow it to slide free smoothly. I have used conventional sewing machine thread in a pinch but I keep a spool of dental floss around for this precise purpose; unless you are going to do ten thousand cars one spool should last a lifetime - and, of course, you can always use it on your teeth if you get a non-fatal case of dental hygiene.

Because a minimum amount of wax dislodges itself from the floss when you pull it loose these lengths can be used multiple times but, of course, you want to make sure that the floss is going to slide loose freely when you pull on it. It is so cheap, however, that I generally do not use it more than once. Consider threading this floss through the eye of a large sewing machine needle to facilitate installing the spring; another is stiffening the floss by dipping it in a glue - I, myself, would recommend some kind of a glue which comes in a bottle which will allow dipping the end of the floss and then holding it while the glue dries; I have used CA and even quick setting epoxy - and allowing the glue to harden before slipping the spring over the end. Some kind of a clamping device on the other end works to keep the spring from falling free; I usually slip knot the floss around a short length of basswood dowel before cutting it from the spool; this length of dowel provides a convenient handle when you get ready to pull the floss free after everything is in place.

I first encountered this technique way back when Custer was a cadet and used it when assembling the drive mechanisms on HO Scale steam locomotive kits. It is a convenient way to align a hole and a screw but, of course, all you would want to do in this circumstance is get things started before dislodging the floss. 

[Blue Flamer]

I have been collecting, 'N GUAGE' for the last 45 years. My wife told me it is about time to do something with, as she puts it, "my collection of rolling stock". The only bad part of this is that we just moved into a Senior complex with limited but some intriguing possibabilities,. Some of the things I've aquired are; 35+ engins all deisel mostly SF, but many other road names, over 350 pieces of rolling stock including 100 coal hoppers for unit trains, 30+ turn outs. I will be starting soon after all the boxes are gone making plans on what type of layout I will do. Right now I think it may be narrow and several interconnecting levels. Will keep 'The "N" Crowd',  informed of my progerss.

jd n guage.

    to The "N" Crowd.

It sounds like we are both married to the same woman. I had been collecting loco's and cars for a number of years and one day when we were at the Hobby Shop that I frequent, she laid down the law. In a voice loud enough for most of the customers and the owner and staff to hear she said, " That's the last train you buy until you build a layout to run what you already have". Needless to say, there were a few chuckles. As we had been married about 43 years at the time, and I am getting to old to break in a new wife, I complied and bought some track and turnouts (Peco) and stuff to get started.

I designed a little 3X6 twice around, over and under and across with a little yard and proceeded to my local Home Depot and picked up some Clear Pine Hobby Lumber and other odds and ends to start with. The hobby lumber comes in standard 1X1, 2", 3", and 4" widths and 2', 3', 4', 6' and 8' lengths and is very straight. It costs a little more, but you have all standard sizes so not much cutting and better yet, not much sawdust to clean up after. I got by with a variable speed drill and a sabre saw.

Now, the wife doesn't say a thing when I look at trains but now I buy mostly Scenery stuff.

If you run into any problems, just pipe up. Someone will be glad to help or you can just go to the search box at the bottom of the page and type in what you require.

Good luck.

Blue Flamer. 

 

[jd n guage]

I have been collecting, 'N GUAGE' for the last 45 years. My wife told me it is about time to do something with, as she puts it, "my collection of rolling stock". The only bad part of this is that we just moved into a Senior complex with limited but some intriguing possibabilities,. Some of the things I've aquired are; 35+ engins all deisel mostly SF, but many other road names, over 350 pieces of rolling stock including 100 coal hoppers for unit trains, 30+ turn outs. I will be starting soon after all the boxes are gone making plans on what type of layout I will do. Right now I think it may be narrow and several interconnecting levels. Will keep 'The "N" Crowd',  informed of my progerss.

[wm3798]

Are you planning for DC cab control or DCC (Digital Command Control)?

Lee 

[njtaxland]

 Hi, right now i have my benchwork, 2" foam on top of plywood, completed and starting to lay the kato track down, waiting for a few more lefthand turnouts to arrive and then I am going to work on the rest of the layout .  the wiring is whats going to "scare" me to do. are there any good N scale books on wiring for beginners?

 

[wm3798]

Microtrains trucks and couplers are the most reliable couplers available.  They are available as body mounts or truck mounts.  If you plan to use Atlas Code 55 track, you'll want to get low profile wheelsets since Micro Trains standard wheels do not comply with NMRA RP-25 standards.

Accumates by Atlas are also good, but in many instances create a longer than prototypical space between cars.  They also aren't quite as reliable as MT.

Haven't seen the new Athearn McHenry's, so I can't comment.

The new Bachmann knuckle is a one-piece dummy.  It allows you to couple cars together, but they do not automatically uncouple.  They are compatible with the other brands.

Lee