The "N" Crowd

[R. T. POTEET]

that large loco was a B-mann DD40ax i dropped it...........

darn my clumsy self 

Sorry about that podna';the only time I ever dropped a locomotive it rolled down my trouser, caught in the cuff, and came to rest on the toe of my boot.

I hope you did not just lock-stock-and-barrel discard this. Body shells can be used as a spare parts source for doors, roof fans, radiator grills, etc. Even if damage had been incurred by the trucks there are always uses for a motor; I was looking at Walthers' 120 foot turntable in their 2007 catalog today; it would take a little bit of jury rigging but somewhere or another if you wanted to power it you are going to have to come up with a motor from somewhere.

[nscaler711]

that large loco was a B-mann DD40ax i dropped it...........

darn my clumsy self 

[Wdlgln005]

Athearn did release some of the MDC freight cars & Overton & Overland passenger cars. They have a new screw mount truck with knucle coupler & some nifty paint scemes. It appears the hoppers may have been missed? Perhaps Athearn merelt painted what plastic stock they had on hand when removed from the MDC packing. Some items seem to be a 1 or 2 time run?

The 2-8-0's were released in 2 styles of paint schemes (passenger/freight). The 2-6-0 is due in July. Given the delays in the Challenger I hope the schedule holds. Time will tell.  

[R. T. POTEET]

I brought this same subject up over on the "Prototype Information" section of the forum but I wanted to bring it up here on The "N" Crowd since my motivation is primarily of an N Scale nature.

I have a handful of Bachmann Spectrum forty dash eights.  Altogether they have given me good service although they have been only lightly run over the course of the last few years.  I feel that they will most likely give me at least a few more years of service.

Saying that something has "given good service", however, is not to say that there are not things which I find objectionable.  The units could be cosmetically improved and it is my intention to do extensive superdetailing of my fleet over the course of the next couple of years.  My main criticism of these units is that they are just a little bit on the noisy side - not terribly so, mind you, but I would like to quiet them down just a little bit.

With this in mind I am soliciting comments about the feasibility of modifying these units using, primarily, Kato drive components; replacement of the motor is one thing which would be done but more specifically I would like to replace the Bachmann trucks with those from a Kato forty-four dash nine.  There was, I remember, a conversion article in N Scale about twelve or so years ago using a Kato C30-7; this was fine but it was a make-do article and this is not what I want.

I do not expect that this is going to be just a drop in conversion project; most likely this is going to require some kind of a frame modification. I have the expectation that I will be purchasing a lathe and milling machine in the near future; this will be necessary if I am going to get my N Scale manufacturing business past "Go".  I am not an accomplished machinist; I did, however, learn how to program mainframe computers and I am confidant that I can master the operation of machine tools with a little bit of study and a little bit of effort. 

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe these are the only GE dash eights on the market; they fit in perfectly with my pike's time frame and operating theme.  With five units I can "mix-em and match-em"; I do not want to get involved in a process of cannibalizing in order to keep a diminishing number of units in service.

I will be appreciative of any comments you might offer on the expediency of this proposal? 

It appears that I am quoting myself which leads me to a little maxim humor which floats through the history community; history does not repeat itself but historians are fond of repeating other historians.

Anyway, I checked my responsed to my "Prototype Information" post and got shot out of the saddle so to speak.  I was under the impression that GE had introduced their Hi-Ad truck with the dash forty line; it turns out that GE introduced that truck with the dash forty-four locomotives.  At the time of dash forty production GE was still using the FB3 truck introduced in U28C production in the mid-60s.  This means that the trucks from Kato's U30C/C30-7s would be correct under Bachmann's forty dash eights.  So I guess I can go that way.

[R. T. POTEET]

Hey RT, doesn't Atlas make the Dash 8 in 5 road numbers?

Bachmann's 40-8s are CC units; Kato's 44-9s are also CC units; Atlas' -8s are BB units.

Appreciate your interest in this topic. 

[pcarrell]

The Bowser GLa in N scale is indeed based off of a pre-WWI design:

Those are great little hoppers Dave.  Thanks for posting that!

[cpeterson]

Hey RT, doesn't Atlas make the Dash 8 in 5 road numbers?

[cpeterson]

An aside from the above conversation, but I was trying out some new track I was laying and hadn't yet run or broken in a new Atlas Fairbanks Morse H-15-44 Diesel and I can't believe how quiet this engine is.  Several of the GP7s run well but are quite a bit louder, these engines were completely silent, not even gear noise.  Needless to say, I am very impressed with these.

 In addition, its good to see that delux seems to be back to sending out products after the recent change in their buisiness.

[Dave Vollmer]

RT,

The Bowser GLa in N scale is indeed based off of a pre-WWI design:

PRR built 30,000 of these between 1904 and 1920.  These hoppers remained in service on the Pennsy until the 1960s.  Bowser offers them in any number of roadnames, many in their WWI-era paint schemes:

http://www.bowser-trains.com/nscale/GLa/GLa.htm

The PRR H21 4-bay hopper is also a pre-WWI design (the H21 was first built in 1911).  However, the N-scale H21a as Bowser offers it is as they were rebuilt in the 1920s to replace the clamshell bays and again in WWII to change the brakewheel arrangement, so even though it's offered in early lettering schemes, it's really only correct for WWII and later.

[R. T. POTEET]

Although I am primarily addressing this to Dave Vollmer for reasons which will shortly become apparent it is not exclusive to him and I open it up to the general "N" Crowd participants.

Dave, with the demise of Roundhouse/MDC into the caverns of Horizon Hobbies, the Roundhouse line of "old timer freight cars" has disappeared from the market and, I suspect, are to never again see the light of day.  I have a scenery/structures project which would utilize "old time hopper cars".  I seem to recall somewhere - it may have been here on The "N" Crowd, maybe not - a comment that the Bowser hopper cars are based on a pre-World War One Pennsylvania Railroad prototype.  I am thinking that the comment was made by you but I may be wrong on that assumption; whatever is the case, if it is a pre-World War One Pennsylvania Railroad prototype you would be the one to know.

This scenery/structures project involves construction of an urban fuel distributor; this industry was established immediately prior to World War Two and the proprietor used salvaged hopper cars for coal bunkers.  The thirty year ICC rule pretty much mandates that these hoppers date from shortly after the turn of the century and this was why I was interested in Roundhouse/MDC's "old time" freight car line.

I understand that Atlas has a hopper car on the market that dates circa 1937; I could rationalize that these cars were wrecked and written off as unsalvagable and had, subsequently, been purchased by my entrepreneur and employed in construction of his coal dealership.

Does anyone else know of any other hopper cars which meet the pre-World War One or pre-World War Two rationale as I have outlined above?

[R. T. POTEET]

I brought this same subject up over on the "Prototype Information" section of the forum but I wanted to bring it up here on The "N" Crowd since my motivation is primarily of an N Scale nature.

I have a handful of Bachmann Spectrum forty dash eights.  Altogether they have given me good service although they have been only lightly run over the course of the last few years.  I feel that they will most likely give me at least a few more years of service.

Saying that something has "given good service", however, is not to say that there are not things which I find objectionable.  The units could be cosmetically improved and it is my intention to do extensive superdetailing of my fleet over the course of the next couple of years.  My main criticism of these units is that they are just a little bit on the noisy side - not terribly so, mind you, but I would like to quiet them down just a little bit.

With this in mind I am soliciting comments about the feasibility of modifying these units using, primarily, Kato drive components; replacement of the motor is one thing which would be done but more specifically I would like to replace the Bachmann trucks with those from a Kato forty-four dash nine.  There was, I remember, a conversion article in N Scale about twelve or so years ago using a Kato C30-7; this was fine but it was a make-do article and this is not what I want.

I do not expect that this is going to be just a drop in conversion project; most likely this is going to require some kind of a frame modification. I have the expectation that I will be purchasing a lathe and milling machine in the near future; this will be necessary if I am going to get my N Scale manufacturing business past "Go".  I am not an accomplished machinist; I did, however, learn how to program mainframe computers and I am confidant that I can master the operation of machine tools with a little bit of study and a little bit of effort. 

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe these are the only GE dash eights on the market; they fit in perfectly with my pike's time frame and operating theme.  With five units I can "mix-em and match-em"; I do not want to get involved in a process of cannibalizing in order to keep a diminishing number of units in service.

I will be appreciative of any comments you might offer on the expediency of this proposal? 

[R. T. POTEET]

i had to throw away a large N-scale loco

Sorry for the confusion here, nscaler711!  You had to throw away a large N-scale loco!  Why?

[nscaler711]

i had to throw away a large N-scale loco

[wm3798]

I've had problems off and on with Peco Insulfrogs with DCC.  The diverging rails at the plastic frog are very close together, and the tread of a metal wheel can and does cause a short.  FYI, this is equipment that is in gauge, and rails that are carefully laid.

My extremely simple solution is to place a dot of CA adhesive on the frog, coating the tops of the rails.  Once it dries, there is no problem.  You have to re-visit the issue after an aggressive track cleaning, but otherwise, it works fine.

Lee

[CAZEPHYR]

I thought maybe we could start a thread for us N-scalers.  I know there are already several "chat" threads out there, but I thought it might be nice to have a spot for us to talk about the world of 1:160 modeling.  After all, we're the second most popular scale out there!

For starters, I'd love to see more of Phillip's Code 55 track and his locomotive projects!

I would also love to see pictures of other N scale layouts - complete, under construction, or just a plan!

Here's a shot on my N scale Pennsylvania Railroad layout:

 

Dave 

I viewed some of your models in the May Keystone Modeler.   Very nice work.  

I watched the PRR in steam days and enjoy seeing the PRR models in N scale.

Thanks

CALZEPHYR 

[pcarrell]

If you are using code 55 you could use the Atlas turnouts, they do not require modification.

I am aware of that.  If you read my original post on this you'll see that I mention that.  It's not the same for the ME turnouts though.

Here's an ME turnout.  You can see the offending metal between the points.

I think I'm just going to do it all in the Atlas track.  I've thought about it and modifying the Shinohara 3 way turnout I have, and a whole handful of the ME's, just doesn't sound like much fun.  I'd rather run trains.

[Dave Vollmer]

RT,

There are those who believe "DCC-friendliness" is a myth.  The issue of DCC friendliness stems from the short circuit that can arise when a metal wheelset causes a short circuit in the frog.  This is usually caused by out-of-gauge wheelsets or turnout rails.  In DC this short circuit, if it occurs, is so minor and quick that it's usually not noticed.  In DCC, however, any short, no matter how minor, causes the system to shut down in order to protect the electronics.

In other words, any turnout that is truly not DCC-friendly is also not DC-friendly, i.e., a short is a short.

However, in common usage, a DCC-friendly turnout is one in which the frog is electrically isolated from the rest of the turnout.

This is the most exhaustive explanation I've seen of DCC-friendly:

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/switches.htm

[Boiler-man]

If you are using code 55 you could use the Atlas turnouts, they do not require modification.

[R. T. POTEET]

Question.....

Micro engineering turnouts.....not DCC friendly by the looks.  Whats the easiest way to modify them?  I know the old circuit board throwbar thing, but has anyone found an easier way?

Pardon my ignorance but can someone impart to me knowledge about the difference between a "DCC friendly" switch/turnout and a "DCC unfriendly" switch/turnout???

Maybe the proper phrase should be a "not DCC friendly" switch/turnout!!!

[pcarrell]

Question.....

Micro engineering turnouts.....not DCC friendly by the looks.  Whats the easiest way to modify them?  I know the old circuit board throwbar thing, but has anyone found an easier way?

[Dave Vollmer]

Sure, I'll bite...

Just did a 30-minute N scale project.  I replaced a 6" section of track where I'd been developing minor kinks after rapid weather changes.  When I originally built the layout I didn't include enough expansion joints.  It was a very quick job.  I soldered one end of the track but left the other as a minor expansion gap.  Once the ballast dries, I'll weather the ballast.

Also added PRR Trainphone antennas to a Life-Like Alco FA1 (PRR class AF-15).

[RR Redneck]

Ah, it cain't stop right when I am startin to make so much headway on my layout!

[Blue Flamer]

Has this thread been stopped or is it still going?

                                    

I was just starting to wonder that myself.

I guess that all the  real modellers are hard at work on the railroad and the complainers had nothing to complain about.

Maybe these will get it to the forefront where it belongs.

Blue Flamer. 

[Boiler-man]

Has this thread been stopped or is it still going?

[cpeterson]

So, I finally got all of the dismanteling done from my previous layout, and started cleaning out the room for the new layout.  Not as much done as I had hoped.  I still need to cut a access hatch in the layout (2 foot square), and then it will be ready to go upstairs.  I received my atlas code 55 turnouts yesterday and they'll be a first for me as I havn't tried them before.  I hope to get some cork and track down on Sunday.  I'm going to use peco code 55 in the hidden staging as I've got plenty of turnouts, and I'll be using microengineering throughout.  We'll see how much gets done.

[cpeterson]

Well, last night I finished my initial benchwork and put a layer of pink foam across the top.  And this morning before work, I dismanteled about 60% of my 1X12 shelf layout that I've had for the past 6 years.  Its amazing how much faster it is to take it apart than to put it together.  I saved all the tortoise machines and DPDT switches, turnouts, etc.  I hope to finish that tonight and start laying track, or at least cork.  Maybe I'll have something worthy of an update pic tomorrow.  I'm hoping Sunday will be a good day to hide in what my wife calls the train room (actually a closet under the eaves, but at least its 7X9 feet).  A huge space compared to anything I've had before.

[Cederstrand]

tgindy, Wow, that inclined plane is insane. Well, at the very least it sure is mighty steep. Thanks for the links and info. -Rob

[tgindy]

I am curious, can someone tell me what the steepest mainline grade is presently in the USA?

Also, what kind of grades were some of those steep old mountain timber lines? I understand some were cable and/or cog assisted, but I would be more interested in looking at modeling one without that. Thanks! -Rob

This May 2006 thread about the 1.45% grade of the Horseshoe Curve (1854) is a good starting point...

http://www.trains.com/trccs/forums/803120/ShowPost.aspx 

About a 45-minute drive southwest of the Horseshoe Curve is the still-operating Johnstown Inclined Plane (1891), using cables, which is the steepest vehicular inclined plane in the world with a 70.9% grade...

http://www.inclinedplane.com/ 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnstown_Inclined_Plane 

Halfway between the Horseshoe Curve & Johnstown Inclined Plane is the Cresson Summit of the Allegheny Portage Railroad National Historic Site (1834-1854).  This was pre-Horseshoe Curve as "the waterless portion" of the Pennsylvania Canal between Hollidayburg & Johnstown.  Check out the stone railroad ties...

http://www.nps.gov/alpo/ <= (not a dog food)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegheny_Portage_Railroad 

Here are photo links to mainline Class I mountaintop railroading at the Horseshoe Curve also including the Gallitzin Tunnels at Tunnel Hill only 10 minutes from the Cresson Summit...

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/horseshoe.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_Curve_%28Pennsylvania%29

http://www.northeast.railfan.net/gallitzin.html 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallitzin_Tunnel 

[Cederstrand]

I am curious, can someone tell me what the steepest mainline grade is presently in the USA?

Also, what kind of grades were some of those steep old mountain timber lines? I understand some were cable and/or cog assisted, but I would be more interested in looking at modeling one without that. Thanks! -Rob

[Dave Vollmer]

I wonder if MR is reacting to the fact that N scale has two publications of its own.  MR doesn't do much O, G, or S either...  all these scales have their own magazines.

I had considered submitting my layout to MR, but after reading their insane photography standards (sorry, but trains, not photography, is my hobby) I decided I'm going to submit a layout feature to N Scale Railroading instead.

MR is practically HO MOdel Railroader.  At least this month had an N scale coal mine article.