BRAKIE jeffrey-wimberly jecorbettYou've got me curious. Without toggles or slide switches like the Atlas Selector, how is it you are able to independently control so many trains. Way back in the 1960s my brother and I bought a used 4x8 HO layout that had two power packs, each controlling a different loop of track, so there was no need to for switches. Is there another way to assign a train to different throttles without the use of some type of manual switch? Ditto. I just can't see how a train on a DC layout can negotiate a return loop without a set of toggles to change the polarity. I am scratching my head over that as well..
jeffrey-wimberly jecorbettYou've got me curious. Without toggles or slide switches like the Atlas Selector, how is it you are able to independently control so many trains. Way back in the 1960s my brother and I bought a used 4x8 HO layout that had two power packs, each controlling a different loop of track, so there was no need to for switches. Is there another way to assign a train to different throttles without the use of some type of manual switch? Ditto. I just can't see how a train on a DC layout can negotiate a return loop without a set of toggles to change the polarity.
jecorbettYou've got me curious. Without toggles or slide switches like the Atlas Selector, how is it you are able to independently control so many trains. Way back in the 1960s my brother and I bought a used 4x8 HO layout that had two power packs, each controlling a different loop of track, so there was no need to for switches. Is there another way to assign a train to different throttles without the use of some type of manual switch?
I am scratching my head over that as well..
In my case, return loops are only used in stagging areas. Trains pull in to the loop and stop. The turnout is thrown, the once west bound train is now east bound so the operator reverses the direction on his wireless throttle, and he can now go back the way he came.
As you stand and look at any train, with your Aristo throttle in your hand, the left direction button sends the train to you left, the right one sends it to your right. Simple.
The "reversing" is done by relay contacts that mirror the switch machine.
Sheldon
jeffrey-wimberly cudaken twhiteWhat the Heck are Toggles, anyway? Tom, don't they live under bridges and start flame wars? Cuda Ken
cudaken twhiteWhat the Heck are Toggles, anyway? Tom, don't they live under bridges and start flame wars? Cuda Ken
twhiteWhat the Heck are Toggles, anyway?
Tom, don't they live under bridges and start flame wars?
Cuda Ken
Hahahaaaaa!!! Where the heck are all those wires going?? I love this picture- subliminal nonsense, like a horse with a fuel filler cap on its ***!
Far as running 4 trains on DC with no switches or toggles, that easy!
K-10 model train has two DC loops on his layout. Each loop has around 10 MRC 9500's. Each one controls around 30 feet of track, then plastic rail joiners, then next 9500 picks up from there.
When I was DC, I could run two trains at the same time. Only switches I had where to kill power to spurs so engines could sit.
Time to get out of here before there is incoming!
I hate Rust
Well first let me say that it does involve some advanced planning and wiring. And is not easily explained in a short response. But, using a combination of wiring methods developed over all the many years since DC trains began, it is very possible to wire a layout for multiple train operation with very minimal "operator input" in terms of assigning cabs to track sections.
If you have access to any old MR's, you could start by reading the series of articles by Ed Ravenscroft that appeared throughout 1974. And, Paul Mallery's "Electrical Handbook for Model Railroads - vol 1&2" covers many methods of advanced cab control which minimize or eliminate "flipping switches".
Some of it is done automaticly by turnout postion. This is more than simple power routing that you may already understand, but actually involves hard wired logic that connects some sections of track differently based on turnout positon.
I use a pushbuttion system that allows the few "cab asignments" that are needed, to be made from multiple locoations as you walk around with your train, just like wireless DCC. And, my throttles are wireless DC throttles from Aristo Craft.
OR, on the mainline, as the Dispatcher aligns your route and gives you clearance, his actions at the CTC panel assign your power for you. All you do is run the train. Signaling and CTC operation is a big part of my model railroading goals. My signal/CTC system is built right into my control system and my turnout control system. It is all intergrated.
OR, for display runnng during an open house, deticated routes are assigned and trains can just run, on their own.
These are my wants and needs, doing them with DCC would cost considerably more than my intergrated DC system. Especially since I have over 100 locos that would require decoders.
I believe from following some of your other posts, that you are relatively new the hobby or are just returning to the hobby. So in all fairness let me explain that I personally have no interest in onboard sound, and the era/theme of my layout does not require odd match up consisting or modern loco lighting effects. All of which are better provided with DCC.
I model 1954, my diesels are matched sets, my steam is matched double headers (but actually many of todays new locos will run very well on DC with other brands). My layout plan is large but relatively simple making it easy to keep trains "away from each other" (something the prototype goes to great length to do with signaling) and I want the flexablity of operating the whole layout alone, with a crew, or for an openhouse. So the track plan and control system work together to provide all of these features.
I belong to a local round robin group and many in the group have DCC. I operate their layouts, even designed one of them and have been involved in constructing several of them. I am very familiar with DCC and have nothing against it, its just not for me at this time on this layout.
If my goals where different, I might want DCC, but I have been happy with this set of goals for many years and will continue on this path.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
cudakentwhiteWhat the Heck are Toggles, anyway? Tom, don't they live under bridges and start flame wars? Cuda Ken
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Sheldon,
Please enlighten us on this amazing control system that you have that allows 4 trains to be run on your mainline without using switches. Is this some variation of the "magic wand" system our japanese modeling friend uses to throw his twin coil switch machines. A red wand, a blue wand, a yellow wand, and a green wand and when I wave it in the air the trains move? Please explain how your system works. Pictures would be even better.
Yup, DCC did a lot to enhance operation and to ease wiring - for me! I would not want to go without it. Finally, it is an issue of personal preference - if your happy with DC, why not!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL The way my control system and layout are designed, I can run 4 trains at a time on the mainline, and four more on branch lines and industrial areas, and still not flip any toggles. Fact remains, toggle switches or rotary switches are likely the worst way to wire ANY DC layout. Yet these poor examples of clumsy DC systems are all that many have ever seen. Sheldon
The way my control system and layout are designed, I can run 4 trains at a time on the mainline, and four more on branch lines and industrial areas, and still not flip any toggles.
Fact remains, toggle switches or rotary switches are likely the worst way to wire ANY DC layout. Yet these poor examples of clumsy DC systems are all that many have ever seen.
You've got me curious. Without toggles or slide switches like the Atlas Selector, how is it you are able to independently control so many trains. Way back in the 1960s my brother and I bought a used 4x8 HO layout that had two power packs, each controlling a different loop of track, so there was no need to for switches. Is there another way to assign a train to different throttles without the use of some type of manual switch?
i didn't want nothing to do with dcc. it scared me just like computers and dc was good enuogh. one day a guy i knew showed me his ho railroad. i saw him run engines on the same track going different ways. i had to know how he did it. i lookd for bunches of wires but there was only a couple of them. he said it was dcc. he gave me a little card showing how engines program and how cv works. was easy. i didnt feel so dumb anymore and went dcc later. i like runnin engines anywhere i want with out it messing with the other engines in the block.
Silver Pilot ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles. DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job. Sheldon You don't need toggles when you only run one train at a time.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles. DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job. Sheldon
Who flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles.
DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job.
You don't need toggles when you only run one train at a time.
jeffrey-wimberly It sure beats flipping toggle switches all the time.
It sure beats flipping toggle switches all the time.
Jeff,I don't use blocks on my ISLs so no block flipping for me..If I did use blocks I would use Atlas selectors anyway and would leave my route lined..
I used DCC and found its ok but,overkill for a small 1 horse ISL.
twhiteFor myself, I'm DC and happy (and no toggles. What the Heck are Toggles, anyway? ). But I'll tellya, if you're DCC and happy, then more power to you.
Observation - those of us happy with DC don't use block toggles. Those using DCC keep telling us that block toggles are the problem with DC. I guess that explains it.
Personally, I can't wait to see how long it takes before this thread gets really INTENSE and locked.
For myself, I'm DC and happy (and no toggles. What the Heck are Toggles, anyway? ). But I'll tellya, if you're DCC and happy, then more power to you.
Let me put it this way. I'm a happy Catholic, but I see no reason to try and convert happy Protestants, as long as they don't try and convert me. To each his own and happy with it.
'Nuff said.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
I agree 100% but have to wonder how much cooler /better it's going to get in the future
Javelina Phoebe Vet There is no such thing as foolproof; fool resistant is the best you can hope for. We've got a saying in the machining world, "That fool could break a crowbar in a sandbox and loose one of the pieces".
Phoebe Vet There is no such thing as foolproof; fool resistant is the best you can hope for.
There is no such thing as foolproof; fool resistant is the best you can hope for.
There's another saying. If you idiot proof something, they'll just come up with a better idiot. I'm a foot dragger when it comes to new technology. I didn't even have a cell phone until about 4 years ago. I don't have an iPod, Blackberry, 3G connection or any of the latest and greatest electronic gizmos. I did, however, make the decision to commit to DCC when I started my current layout about 6 years ago. I have never regretted that decision. Lots of new technology actually makes our lives more complicated. DCC is a technology that makes life simpler. Other than the added cost of factory installed DCC and sound, I see no downside to DCC. I can't imagin ever going back to the old way.
el-capitan UP 4-12-2 But DCS is better--it's virtually idiot-proof. Never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot.
UP 4-12-2 But DCS is better--it's virtually idiot-proof.
But DCS is better--it's virtually idiot-proof.
Never underestimate the ingenuity of an idiot.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
ATLANTIC CENTRAL jeffrey-wimberly It sure beats flipping toggle switches all the time. Who flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles. DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job. Sheldon
One size NEVER fits all!
The OP is thrilled by DCC - good. More power to him.
The DCC aficonados all feel vindicated - and good. I'm glad that they feel good.
Cheap shots at DC control prove only that the shooter isn't familiar with the more sophisticated analog DC systems - and didn't think of One-Train Herbert and his toggle-free toy train loop.
People who are happy with their analog DC systems are glad the DCC folks are happy - as long as they don't try to become missionaries for their chosen system(s) in complete disregard of what the analogers are doing, or planning to do.
Enjoy whatever size you like - even if it's the 78-ounce steak at the Cowboy Restaurant in Amarillo (which is free if you can eat it, and $$$ if you can't finish!)
As for me, I'm a happy camper. Sheldon knows why.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - analog DC, modified MZL system)
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
I was convinced DCC was great back around 1982 when a group I was with built and got running a CTC-16 system. The major drawback then was you usually had to buy the system as a kit, solder it together, hope nothing got fried in the process, and hope it worked. It was very basic, but you could run multiple trains on a single track without a lot of toggle/rotary switches and fancy wiring.
The thing that makes today's DCC great is the NMRA standards that make all the periphials from any manufacturer compaible with any base DCC system (almost), and the variety of decoders available from inexpensive basic ones to fancy expensive sound decoders.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
Driline ATLANTIC CENTRAL Who flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles. DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job. Sheldon I wondered how long it would take before you chimed in As for me. I LOVE my IBM select typewriter. Computers...myeaaa.....they're just a fad, just like DCC.
I wondered how long it would take before you chimed in
As for me. I LOVE my IBM select typewriter. Computers...myeaaa.....they're just a fad, just like DCC.
If not for the "toggle flipping" comment, I might have left this alone completely.
ATLANTIC CENTRALWho flips toggles? I still use DC but don't flip any toggles. DCC is great, it's just not a one size fits all solution to the job. Sheldon
5 years before-my dealer said to me:Cancel your H0-layout from DC to DCC-my answer was-to expensive :-((At this time I only run with DCC on my G-scale-layout)
And a half year later I want to buy DCC-items for H0-and today-I will not miss them-for me is DCC the best way to run model railroads
I like "to go with my trains",and many functions,such as light,horn,smoke,,,
I will never miss DCC