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Leeds Sovereign Street & Clarence Dock - a UK based layout

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, February 21, 2021 10:47 AM

York1

More nice pictures of your great layout, David.  Thanks for sharing them here!

 

 

My pleasure John.

 

Dave.  You say there is too much space between buildings in your urban scene.

 

Before  I go any further I must say this is the way I do things.  It is not the way.  Other modelers do things other ways and are successful.

 

That said,  I am amazed (sometimes)  how some modelers will have stations that in real life  are 50 or more miles apart  and compress the line in a small space.  Then become meticulous over other details.  There is no compression?

Model things as though you see them from the control/viewing area.

Say you are building a model of a real Store.   In real life it has 10 parking bays.  The model of the store is done.   It does not detract the model if there are only five parking bays.  It is still a great looking model.

 

A road does not have to be the 'normal width'.   It can look okay if it is narrower.  If the road is narrower the building across the way is closer.  Placement of road vehicles is the key.  Don't have two large vehicles trying to pass when there isn't room.  Use smaller vehicles instead.

 

Here are some pictures to explain.  

 

Sovereign Street Station  seen from the viewing side.  I want an enclosed feeling.

 

Sovereign Street seen from the back.  The road at the back isn't really there.  (The strip along the floor is lights for the buildings.)

 

The main road on the layout.  Technically it should be two lanes either side.   Two large vehicles would not be able to be side by side.  The use of automobiles instead to believe it is a busy road.

 

A similar procedure for the road at the back.    It should be two-way traffic, but traffic really cannot pass.

 

 

A scene at Clarence Dock

 

Compression  to make the above scene.

 

 

If you have a model of a house that really has a large grass area etc.  The house still looks great in a smaller garden.  Just a bit of compression.

 

A thing to look out for.   If you are modeling say the 1950s;  do not have anything on the layout that was made or built after that time.

 

A new section at Clarence Dock  (Still some work to be done).   Timeframe 1914/1919.  The postbox is a 1995 design. Embarrassed

 

 

Have fun.  It is a (great) hobby.

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, February 21, 2021 8:39 PM

Hi David,

Thanks for all the pictures and suggestions!

My layout is 5'4"x12' but almost all of the track is within 2' of the fascia. That leaves a fair bit of space in the middle. I have planned a downtown section that will have about a dozen multi story buildings in close proximity to each other, centered around a main intersection. The main roads are slightly narrowed but I have enough space for two lanes with parking on both sides. Most of the other roads are single lane or slightly wider.

Where I think I got hung up was with the amount of space around the industrial buildings outside of the downtown area. The industrial buildings are fairly large and multi story as well. I have a number of transport trailer rigs and I want to make the industries look busy, but leaving enough space for a full sized transport truck with 40' trailer to manoeuver requires a large parking lot. That means lots of space between the industries which I think will make the industrial area look sparse.

I also have a tourist trap area next to the water feature which is spaced out too much as well.

I'll have to do some more thinking about the two areas.

Cheers!!

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:43 AM

Hi Dave.   There never is enough room to  have what we want on a layout. Sad

Not to be outdone.    Most of what I wanted on my layout is actually on the backscene.  The farmland on one side of the layout is there.  A picture of my son on the quad bike is miniaturised and ios seen 'rounding up the sheep'.   There are only three models of sheep showing.

A well-known (over here) layout  shows trains arriving at an airport.   The runways, airplanes etc.  are on the backscene.  Just a little of the airport perimiter is on the layout.  There the builder has two maybe three of his model aircraft.  He changes them around with other models he has.  He compromises.

 

Like you, Dave,  I  have a number of transport rigs etc.   If I had them all on the layout there would not be enough room.   Then I have a small fleet of buses. Laugh

I have a small industrial park.  On it is 'Archbold & Glendinning's'.   In real life they are/were separate Companies.   Both have/had huge warehouses and trailer parks.  I had to have them both on the layout, so I 'merged them' into one Company.   Obviously I could not have 50 plus vehicles, compromise was the only way again.  I have thee Glendinning's vehicles & 2 of Archbold's.   Even then I can have only two vehicles at the site.  The other three vehicles get moved around the layout. 

 

The Industrial Estate.  Archbold & Glendinning's is the blue building at the top.

 

 

Regardng the 'tourist trap'  once again compromise on what you want.Can you put it on a backscene with a footbridge over the tracks to a small area actually built?   

It all comes down to selective compromise.  Dave.  I know you can do it.

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Monday, February 22, 2021 5:18 AM

NorthBrit
Regardng the 'tourist trap'  once again compromise on what you want.Can you put it on a backscene with a footbridge over the tracks to a small area actually built?

Hi David,

My layout is free standing so there aren't any 'backscenes' or backdrops. I think that makes it a bit more challenging to condense scenes in the manner which you have done. I have eliminated any extra space around the industrial tracks that form the small yard in the center of the layout. In other words, I can't get the large industrial buildings any closer together than they are now. I could make the industrial buildings smaller but that won't convey the image of a large industrial site that I want.

Thanks again,

Dave

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 22, 2021 5:34 AM

Hi Dave.   I agree.  Keeping the buildings tall  gives a feeling of importance and therefore a busy area.

 

David

 

 

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, March 4, 2021 8:13 AM

Recently I have just been having fun running trains.  However,  today I have been cleaning wheels on  my carriages and trucks.  Laborious I know, but we clean the track and the engines, but the 'poor' carriages and trucks  collect so much gunge it is unbelievable.  Also they are getting a 'spring clean'.   It is worth it in the end with 'free running' and looking smart again.

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, March 5, 2021 3:45 AM

A couple of pictures of the container train with Class 47  47299 Ariadne in charge.

Passing the junction

 

 

and passing Crown Point Yard.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, March 7, 2021 5:36 AM

I am in the (slow) process of building a LMS Stanier Class 5   4.6.0  locomotive.  Commonly known as a Black 5.    Here she is on a test run prior to lining and adding 'the fiddly bits'.

 

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 7, 2021 10:22 PM

NorthBrit
I am in the (slow) process of building a LMS Stanier Class 5   4.6.0  locomotive.  Commonly known as a Black 5.    Here she is on a test run prior to lining and adding 'the fiddly bits'.

Hi David,

That will look nice when finished.

I probably have you beat on doing a 'slow' build of a locomotive. I have a Roundhouse (IIRC) 4-6-0 that I have been working on (or rather, not working on) for more than 10 years. My intent is to backdate it to resemble an early Grand Trunk Railroad unit. It is at the point where it needs to be painted but I haven't done any painting for a couple of years. Lazy I guess.

Dave

 

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, March 8, 2021 5:21 AM

hon30critter
  It is at the point where it needs to be painted but I haven't done any painting for a couple of years. Lazy I guess.

Dave 

 

Heck no!!    I bet you are like me with a long 'To do' list.  Then there is the emergency bits to do.   Plus the little  ----- .  

All part of model railroading.

Lately, all I have done is run trains.  Yes Big Smile

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, March 9, 2021 5:18 AM

Smile

 

Two new container wagons have arrived.  I bought them from 'The Medway Queen Preservation Society'   https://www.medwayqueen.co.uk/     Money raised on the sale of wagons goes towards the preservation of  the ship.

 

 

Other wagons bought previously with G.S.N.Co. markings.

 

 

More wagons bought from M.Q.P.S.  on the layout passing Crown Point Yard.  Class 37  37026  Glencairn in charge.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, March 13, 2021 1:54 PM

It's not all about running trains.   Little scenes  to bring it all together.

Agnes Marston is off to the local store.  Charlie, her Corgi dog is leading the way.  It is 1971, dogs in the UK did not have to be on a lead.

Note the flowers in the garden.  I received them from my grandchildren for my birthday.

 

 

It was a windy day yesterday, so Keith Armstrong has his wheelbarrow out to tidy the garden.  A quick look to see the locomotives  over the wall.

 

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Saturday, March 13, 2021 10:10 PM

NorthBrit
It's not all about running trains.   Little scenes  to bring it all together.

I love all the little details David!

I'm not too sure about the exterior plumbing though. Looks like they had a shortage of straight pipe so they decided to use all their spare parts!?!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

Dave

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, March 14, 2021 5:36 AM

hon30critter

I love all the little details David!

I'm not too sure about the exterior plumbing though. Looks like they had a shortage of straight pipe so they decided to use all their spare parts!?!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughLaugh

Dave  

 

Realism, Dave.   I hate things perfect.

 

Actually the house was in a 'job lot' and  renewing the pipework was a job to be done.  Mrs Marston has contacted the local roofer.  He is busy at the moment, but will come round and fix it  (eventually). Whistling

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 14, 2021 8:57 PM

Lastspikemike
Exterior sanitary drainage piping is common in the UK

My dad told us that during WWII sometimes the only thing left standing after a house was bombed were the exterior sanitary drain pipes.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, March 14, 2021 8:58 PM

NorthBrit
Realism, Dave.   I hate things perfect.

I hope you realize that I was just kidding you. I think the plumbing looks just great!

Dave

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, March 15, 2021 5:34 AM

hon30critter

 I hope you realize that I was just kidding you. I think the plumbing looks just great!    Dave

 

Not offended at all, Dave.  I genuinely dislike things being 'too perfect' on my layout.   I do not see things in life perfect.  People always have something that needs doing in and around their property.

Agnes Marston  has a lovely house inside.  A lovely garden.  Her husband, Charlie is too busy in the scrap yard, so she has called her local roofer  to fix the drainpipes.

He is busy at the moment (Me!)  Laugh   Busy revamping the layout and a spring clean.  Big Smile

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, March 15, 2021 2:55 PM

I received some 'flowers'  from my grandchildren.   Matt Summers had the job of planting some in Roseville Station.   He takes a 'breather' as he sees the midday Class 121 from Seacroft to Leeds Central arrive.

 

 

It is December 1915.   A light dusting of snow has fallen.  Will it clear or is more snow forecast?

 

 

David

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Posted by "JaBear" on Monday, March 15, 2021 11:23 PM

NorthBrit
It is December 1915. 

Cold by Bear, on Flickr

"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 5:46 AM

A Beartoon on Sovereign Street.   Yeah   Bow  

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, March 16, 2021 7:33 AM

In the real world the rail line from Leeds to Wetherby wound its way this direction then that.   By the 1960s/70s it was a secondary route and as time passed became a little overgrown.  Eventually the line closed to traffic.

 

The model is becoming a little overgrown, and traffic stills run.  

 

A misty morning along the line.   In the distance a Seacroft to Leeds Central Class 121 is approaching.

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, March 19, 2021 7:36 AM

Little scenes  to make a big picture.

 

More 'birthday flowers' planted at the 17th Century  built 'Coach & Horses Inn'.  The local Hunt is in attendance  for their 'drink'/.

 

 

 

The  signal box at Leeds Sovereign Street Station.  A little snow has fallen.  Geoff Nicholson as arrived  for his next shift of work.   A Leeds City Corporation bus is behind  on its way to the bus station.

 

 

David

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Posted by Pruitt on Friday, March 19, 2021 8:42 AM

NorthBrit
More 'birthday flowers' planted at the 17th Century  built 'Coach & Horses Inn'.  The local Hunt is in attendance  for their 'drink'/.

 David

Very nice David!

17th century, huh? Just how old IS your layout, anyway?

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, March 19, 2021 10:28 AM

Pruitt

Very nice David!

 17th century, huh? Just how old IS your layout, anyway? 

 

Thanks for your comments Mark.

 

Seven years ago Dawn said I could have 'the small bedroom' for a layout.

The plan was an L shaped layout with a strong Scottish flavour.  It was purely diesels running only  and most of the locomotives  I have their 1-1 counterparts were seen in Scotland.

 

Among my collection I have a few small 0.4.0 steam locomotives.   As My now growing up grandchildren wanted to 'run trains' those locomotives were ideal for them.   A few small trucks and carriages and all was well.

 

I then wanted to the steam railroad to look more realistic, so Leeds Sovereign Street Station was built.   I now had a U shape layout.   A lift-off bridge was constructed  and a continuous run was made.

I was running a Scottish based diesel layout and a Leeds based steam layout.  I was getting confused.

 

I knew more about Leeds, so I re-wrote the history of my railroad set purely around Leeds.   The scene around  Leeds Sovereign Street  is set during the time of the Great War   and is Wintertime;   hence a dusting of snow.  i wanted a Winter scene

 

The rest of the layout is a Summer scene.

 

I then wanted a small canal dock  and the only one suitable in Leeds was Clarence Dock.  That is set mainly during the time of the Great War,  although it is easily changed to the diesel era.   Clarence Dock scenery is just after a fall of rain.  I wanted puddles etc.

 

To answer your question, Mark,  the layout is seven years old.  It has gone thru a few changes and I am happy  where it is now.   No more extensions,  but a tree or two might grow somewhere.  Laugh     I like altering the scenery a little;  just like Nature does.

Oh!   the 17th Century Coach & Horses Inn  is a model of a real one just outside Leeds  that was built 1697.

 

David

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Posted by Pruitt on Friday, March 19, 2021 7:50 PM

Actually David, I was making a poor joke. But the story of your layout is very interesting! Thanks! Yes

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, March 20, 2021 5:48 AM

I guessed it was a joke, Mark.  Big Smile

As for old houses;   our family home was built in 1787, the second oldest in the village.

It's older than the original of this little fellow -- Laugh

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, March 20, 2021 11:41 AM

Lastspikemike

Your Rocket   derailed 

 

A minor detail.  Bang Head

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, March 20, 2021 1:17 PM

Scenes from the last running session.

 

Here we have  a  Gateshead based Class 47 47404  Hadrian in charge of a Leeds to Birmingham parcel service.    In all the many times my son and I looked around Gateshead shed  we never saw 'Hadrian'.  It was later we found it spent most of its time  around Birmingham.  I guess they must have liked it.

There wasn't a model available  of 47404, so I made one myself.    Three days later Bachmann Europe   introduced the model.

 

 

There was a gale blowing 'yesterday',  so Matt Summers has his wheelbarrow out to tidy the garden.    He stops to see a rare Class 50   50007   Hercules   pass.   The Class 50 is a Plymouth Laira based locomotive  on a late,  diverted Plymouth  to Leeds Central  Express.   

In my book about Leeds Central Station there is a picture of a Class 50  about to depart back to Plymouth.   The caption stated that Class of locomotive  was rare to be seen in Leeds.   Good enough to run my 50007.   Big Smile

 

 

Matt Summers is not getting any work done in the garden.   He sees a Class 55  55023  9th Queen's Royal Lancers     pass on its way to Crown Point Yard to refuel.    There were only 22 Class 55s built, but I wanted one with the name of the Regiment my father was in.   The number 55023 follows the other 22. 

(In   1921 the 9th  Lancers  became The 9th Queen's Royal Lancers  after Queen Adelaide.   In 1932 the lances were withdrawn.  In 1936  the horses were no longer required  and The 9th  became a Tank Regiment.   Although now part of the Royal Tank Rgiment the name of The 9th Queen's Royal Lancers  still lives.  About 18 months ago we saw a young man in uniform.  His cap badge was of the 9th.)

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, March 21, 2021 7:40 AM

Keeping variety and enjoyment on a layout

On my layout I have 55  locomotives.  (Too many says Dawn, and probably right.)  To be able to run them all I have a small locomotive yard,  Crown Point Yard. 

 In real life  it was a refuelling yard for locomotives using Balm Road Quarry Sidings,  and Stourton Container Yard

On the layout locomotives from Leeds Central Station also use the yard,  giving more reason to run my collection.  Therefore the scene at Crown Point is always changing.

A typical scene in the yard

left to right --  Class 27  Glasgow Eastfield based 27037.   Class 55  York based  55021  Argyll & Sutherland Highlander,   Class 47  Crewe based 47567 Red Star,  and  Class 37   Inverness based  37026   Glencairn.

 

By knowing where the locomotives were based and types of traffic they were used on, I then know what service they 'will be on next'.  Can I put them on a service that is in the direction of their 'home base'?   Most times I can, but sometimes not.   

It keeps it all a fun layout to operate for me.

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, March 22, 2021 6:54 AM

Keeping the magic and enjoyment when running trains.  The trains I run have to have a reason to be on the line.  They must have a start point and destination; no matter whether it is a passenger, container or freight train.  The 'humble two carriage local'  is as important (if not more)  as a 12 or 14 carriage inter-state express.

I have a  core timetable of local trains that used the lines.  To add variety I have mentioned the running of 'diverted trains'.   Those trains are the proper trains that would use the 'main line'  and would be diverted because of engineering work etc.

Then  there is the running of 'Steam Specials'.   I have six steam locomotives  that 'travel the line'  when I feel like it. Smile

 

The running of local trains.

 

A Leeds Central to Dewsbury Market Place Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU)   waits at the signal whilst a Class 121   Seacroft to Leeds Central  clears the junction.

 

 

The Class 121 has arrived at Leeds Sovereign Street.   Passing is a Edinburgh Haymarket based   Class 25  25237  on its way to Crown Point Yard.

 

 

David

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