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Leeds Sovereign Street & Clarence Dock - a UK based layout

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 19, 2020 4:35 AM

Note the 'cycling lion' emblem on the tender in the second picture.

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, December 19, 2020 5:44 AM

British Railways had different colors and logos on their locomotives (as if they could not make their mind up.)

Here is some diesels that could be seen (modelwise) at Crown Point Yard.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, December 19, 2020 7:13 AM

Thanks for you comments Lpm

The liveries on trains these days is enormous.    Look at the films on the Trackside Diner thread.  They only 'scratch the surface'.    Trains and locomotives etc. built after my layout timescale are now being preserved.

 

David

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 19, 2020 9:46 AM

I am appallingly ignorant of the actual history of postwar British railroading, and am constantly finding new layers of interest that adds to the context, but only scratch the surface and bring up new questions ... much as with North American railroad history.

I suspect there was a parallel on the new "British Railways" (in the era before the development of the Standards) to practice on newly-formed Penn Central and then Conrail, to put the "new" logo and colors on rolling stock to promote the new national 'company'.  That might easily extend to having some of the shops serving the corresponding 'regions' use new livery on locomotives receiving heavy repairs, while patching equipment in progressively simpler or cruder ways depending on age, intended retirement, etc.

It is my understanding that the 'cycling lion' emblem was comparatively early and was also supplanted by other choices comparatively early, so it would make sense as I understood it to represent a locomotive 'soon after 1948' -- especially if shiny and new-looking, as that locomotive is.  Of course the same could be said of a BR "heritage unit" painted in that scheme, too.

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, December 19, 2020 11:51 AM

Overmod

I am appallingly ignorant of the actual history of postwar British railroading,

 

I do not think British Railways know what colors and branding they wanted, so most people  confused to what was what.

These may help.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Great_Britain#

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_corporate_liveries

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail

 

At times i think certain areas 'did as they pleased'   until HQ found out.

 

David

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Posted by Overmod on Saturday, December 19, 2020 12:49 PM

NorthBrit
At times i think certain areas 'did as they pleased' until HQ found out.

There is a site on YouTube that provides some of the 'Railway Rendezvous' films with an impromptu voiceover by one of the principals.  He mentions a couple of instances of this, persisting into the late '50s and early '60s, including older steam engines bearing both BR and older company 'shields'.  So there may be more instances where the idea was 'sanctioned' or selectively ignored...  

Some of the history concerning when areas of BR promoted corporate vs. 'heritage' image would be interesting to see, although this is not something that might have been formally documented 'for posterity' as such.

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, December 21, 2020 2:47 PM

Lastspikemike

It is ironic that some preservation railways seem better capitalized than the national system.

 

 

It must be remembered that  all Preservation Railway pay a small percentage of staff that work there.  Most staff are volunteers (and enjoy it).

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Wednesday, December 23, 2020 9:59 AM

Most of my carriages now have passengers.   Here is a Pullman carriage that has been painted inside to 'get rid' of the stark white interior.  The color  is a brown.  Passengers have been painted and added.   A new name (Alethea) has been added. Now in service passing Roseville Station.  Other Pullman carriages have had the similar treatment.

 

 

David

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Posted by M636C on Friday, December 25, 2020 7:25 AM

NorthBrit

 

 
Lastspikemike

I left England in 1965, departing from Albert Dock in Liverpool. 

My last memory of British steam was an A4 down from Newcastle arriving at Kings Cross. That was green LNER as it appears in my mind's eye.  

 

 

 

That could  be British Railways Green.

They did  B R  blue,  changing to green.  A lot were changed to black color.

Some ex LNER remained Apple Green or Silver.

 

David

 

In fact only nine A4s were painted LNER green when new in 1936-37, numbers 4482 to 4487 (numbered just above the highest numbered A1s ordered by GNR) and 4493 to 4495 (4488 to 4492 were blue for the Coronation service). These nine had been repainted Garter Blue by October 1938. From 4496 onwards A4s entered service in Garter Blue. The shortest life in green was 4495, green for 11 days in August/September 1937. Later A4s were numbered from 4462 to 4469, numbered between the Ivatt Atlantics and the first Gresley Pacific 4470. These were also blue from new. The original four silver locomotives, 2509 to 2512 (numbered in the North Eastern Railway series) were all blue by 1938. Many A4s were painted black during WWII but had been repainted Garter Blue by 1948 and entered BR service in those colours.

BR painted at least one A4 dark blue with red and grey lining in 1948 or 1949, but adopted a mid blue, darker than Garter Blue with black and white lining from 1949 until 1951. This blue was confined to locomotives rated at 7P or 8P, the most powerful express passenger classes (which of course included the ex LMS Princess and Princess Coronation locomotives.) I myself have the same Hornby model of Lady Patricia.

After 1951 all A4s were BR Brunswick Green until withdrawal.

The Princess class were named after princesses in order of their position in line to inherit the throne. this was before the abdication in 1936, so "The Princess Royal" preceded "Princess Elizabeth". After Albert, Duke of York became King George VI in late 1936, Princess Elizabeth moved ahead of the Princess Royal. The Turbine Locomotive 6202 didn't have a name until rebuilt with four cylinders by BR when it was named Princess Anne who is the present Princess Royal. Lady Patricia 6210, later 46210 was tenth in line before 1936. She was a princess, but took the title Lady when she married a Lord.

The "lion on a unicycle" logo was superseded by the "lion in a crown" in 1957.

So that logo lasted longer than the blue livery.

Some of the odd liveries in BR days discussed above are seen here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhDWKl-YPA8

Here in Australia we have just watched the Queen's Christmas Message and a replay of the  Royal Command Variety Performance. Thirty years ago we were familiar with British performers. Today they are completely unknown, so I guess we are to some degree independent.

Edit in bold.

Peter

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Posted by NorthBrit on Tuesday, January 5, 2021 6:45 AM

I am not one for doing any 'weathering'  on items normally,  but I thought I would  'try' on some parcel vans.   I have never seen a clean one 'ever'.    I purloined some old make-up from Dawn,  (not that she  needs it you understand)  and began to experiment on the vans.

 

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Wednesday, January 6, 2021 5:52 AM

Adding a littlle 'life' to the footbridge.

 

 

David

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Posted by Pruitt on Wednesday, January 6, 2021 11:00 AM

I'd like to see your layout in person someday, David...

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Posted by NorthBrit on Wednesday, January 6, 2021 2:17 PM

Pruitt

I'd like to see your layout in person someday, David...

 

 

Now that is a statement, Mark.   I am intrigued.  Smile

 

It is just two layouts on one track layout.  Both have reasons for the trains to run.  The 'people'  on it have a reason to be where they are.   The scenery is specific to the area built.  The buildings have a reason to be where they are.  To me it is  a 'Living Model Railway'. 

Many things are wrong if one looks closely.  I do not.  It is fun to operate.   

 

If you want to see it, Mark, you will have to visit the Border Region of the UK.  You will be welcome.  

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, January 8, 2021 4:35 AM

Well it had to happen.   After over three years one of the fishplates joining two tracks in Crown Point Yard has worked loose.  It is in the middle of a set of points and to repair it has meant a lot of track has had to be lifted.

The Track Maintenance Staff  (me)  will be 'working this weekend'.

 

David

 

 

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, January 10, 2021 11:25 AM

Having a login name of NorthBrit  and avatar of the North British Railway  (because I live near the old Border Counties Railway ; owned by the N B R)  naturally I have  some NBR wagons.

 

The little four plank  N B (North British Railway)  wagon behind the engine is of a 1910 design.    The model  is by Oxford Rail  and although a good runer it looked of plastic.   Therefore I dirtied it up a little.

The N B box van  I made from a 1912 design.  I am sure someone else would have made the model, but I have never seen another one..

The five plank  Douglas Glencairn  wagon is of a 1910 design.   There was never such a wagon,  but I know the family and asked if I could make the wagon.  Therefore it is  a 'one off'.  The tarpaulin is from a Company of EBay.

 

[

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, January 17, 2021 6:16 AM

The remodeling of Crown Point Yard is done.  The track is tested and locomotives can now occupy seven roads compared to five previously.

 

 

Class 47  47583  'County of Hertfordshire'  in Network South East  livery was a locomotive I used to see regularly.  Why it was in the north of England so much was a bit of a mystery.  Maybe the northern crew liked it and would not 'send it back south'.

There is no actual model of 47583, so I had  another model repainted etc.  Normally I repaint etc. myself, but the NSE livery is a difficult one.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, January 24, 2021 5:19 AM

Since the dawn of railways  Companies (in the UK)  had their own style of cattle wagons.

Here is on the left a Leeds Scarcroft & Wetherby Railway cattle wagon.  On the right a Lancashire & Yorkshire  wagon.

 

 

On the left a Kirkstall & East Seacroft Railway wagon.  On the right a Great Northern Railway wagon.   Note the subtle differences between all four.

 

 

All four were built to designs between 1898 and 1912.   In real life the same designs of wagons were still being built in 1930s and later.   Therefore they could be seen in most eras of modeling.   These types of wagons were still running in the 1970s.   Here is 'cattle'  being taken to Leeds  Cattle Market.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Wednesday, January 27, 2021 5:54 AM

The beauty of two layouts on one track plan.

Switch from 1970 to 1914/1919

 

The early morning passenger train from Earlsheaton Junction to Leeds Central with 'Vivienne'  in charge.   passing Crown Point Junction.  Ash Farm fields and Lake  behind.

 

 

Passenger and goods trains pass in Leeds Sovereign Street Station.

 

 

'Harwood' is in charge of the goods train on its way to Earlsheaton Junction.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, January 28, 2021 4:27 AM

Two more scenes when running steam trains on 1914/19  layout.

 

Trains passing in Leeds Sovereign Street Station.

 

 


 

Earlsheaton Junction bound goods train passing Wyndham Farm.

 

 

David

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Posted by York1 on Thursday, January 28, 2021 8:59 AM

I don't post on this thread often, David, but I enjoy seeing your layout.

York1 John       

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, January 29, 2021 8:53 AM

Thanks for your comments, guys.   Glad you like the layout.

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Monday, February 1, 2021 6:46 AM

Scenes of life.   Making a layout more than just running trains.

'Watching the trains'

Class 25  25237  with a train of Ale boxvans  passing Roseville Station and heading north.

 

 

Staff Nurse Sandra Brown passing Roseville Station one her way to the hospital.   St James' Hospital is just round the corner.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, February 5, 2021 11:57 AM

Add people  to the layout.   Makes it a reason to be there.   A Living  Model Railroad.

Which people are going to Julia's Bakers?   Who are heading towards the crossing?

See the man delivering the coal.  The man on his bicycle waiting at the crossing.

 

 

It isn't all about the railroad.   D. K.  (Archbold)   is about to leave to go home.  He is seen here talking to the fork-lift driver, Terry Pearson.

 

 

David

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Posted by NorthBrit on Thursday, February 11, 2021 5:06 AM

I have been making some removable loads.  Fairly simple to make.

 

Glue a piece of wood to a piece of card

 

 

Paint the card a dark color.

 

 

Glue the required load to the card.

 

 

Place in wagon.

 

 

Repeat with other wagons

 

 

A fully laden train heading to Barnbow

 

 

For the return journey lift the loads out  --  a train of empty wagons.

 

 

David

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Posted by Pruitt on Thursday, February 11, 2021 3:10 PM

Thumbs Up

David, your layout is exceptional. One could get lost in the detailing shown in your photos.

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Posted by NorthBrit on Friday, February 12, 2021 6:40 AM

Thanks Mark.   It's just a lot of little scenes  I remember put together.  The railroad just passes thru.

Even now I see a little scene.  See someone propping up a fence that is about to fall down in the wind. 

Follow someone out of a store; why do they stop outside so you cannot pass

Bonnet up on an automobile.  Is it broken down or is the owner giving it a service?

A train passes and children look at it.  Adults have their things on their minds.

Nature is not 'prim and proper'.  There are 'fifty shades of green'  in a small area.

The sky is not always blue.  The clouds are not always 'fluffy'.   Is that rain approaching. Fog?  Heat haze?

Puddles after rainfall

Just little scenes that are all around us  helping to bring a railroad to life.

 

When I look at 'memorable layouts'  I try to see 'why are they memorable'?   It certainly isn't the track plan.   It certainly isn't the locomotives etc that are run.  If it were, all layouts would be memorable.

My most memorable layouts I have seen and read about have lots of little things one remembers and seen.  Things we see yet rarely model.  Those layouts have a reason to be one and operated as a real railroad.  Their owners have taken their railroad to the highest level  by daring to be different to others.

 

I have a long, long way to be as good,  but even if I do not succeed, I will be able to say 'I tried'.

 

I have said to others, have a railroad that has that 'edge'.   Stretch your modeling capabilities.  Dare to be different.   See what you see and not what you think you saw.  Bring your layout to life.  Have a 'Living Model Railroad'.   Make your railroad 'memorable'.

 

David

 

 

 

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Posted by NorthBrit on Saturday, February 20, 2021 6:42 AM

Recently I bought three Triang Toys/Pedigree Prams containers.  One was in good condition the other two were 'rough looking'.   The decals from the rough ones were removed and 'Craigellachie' ones added.

 

 

David

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Posted by hon30critter on Sunday, February 21, 2021 12:04 AM

NorthBrit
The decals from the rough ones were removed and 'Craigellachie' ones added.

Hi David,

Nice work! You now have some really valuable shipments on your layout!Smile, Wink & GrinLaughLaughDrinksYes

By the way, I love how 'dense' your layout scenery is. I have a detailed layout plan with lots of buildings in a primarily urban scene but I'm still worried that the layout will look too 'open', in other words there will be too much space between the buildings. I have allowed a lot of space for roads and parking lots but I'm giving that plan second thoughts.

Dave

I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!

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Posted by NorthBrit on Sunday, February 21, 2021 4:28 AM

Thanks for your comments, Dave.  Much appreciated.

 

I am busy today, but I'll be back later and explain a 'few tricks'  I have done that might help you with your railroad.

 

David

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Posted by York1 on Sunday, February 21, 2021 7:28 AM

More nice pictures of your great layout, David.  Thanks for sharing them here!

York1 John       

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