Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Northwoods Flyer]

DocBen,

I took a look at one of my engines from about the same time as your engine.  Does the inside of the cab of your locomotive look anything like this?

 

If it does, that large silver piece in the middle should move back and forth each time that you apply power to the engine.  With each movement it changes the direction of the engine.  There is no neutral with this motor.  I have noticed that my engines that have this type of mechanism do stick on occasion, keeping the engine going in only one direction.  There isn't a need for a seperate control for reverse.

 

At the top on the left there is a lever that moves up against that silver piece and holds it in place, locking the engine in one direction.

 

These two photos show that lever in the two different position.

 

 

Beyond this point I can't be much help.  If the motor in your loco doesn't look like this I'm lost  .

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[DocBen]

 So I'm reading through the 1938 catalog, and I see that in page 2, it says "All locomotives are equipped with remote-control reverse motors".  Does anyone else have a locomotive from this era that they run on Fastrack with a Lionel transformer?  I guess my question is...is there is separate reverse motor in these trains?  If so, how is it remote-controlled?  I looked at the transformer that came with the set, and it is the #7 75W unit.  There is no reverser on the transformer.  I see no switch on the engine.  Anyone have any insight on what a remote controller would look like for this, or how it would work.  It runs very nicely in reverse.  Nothing so far gets it to kick over to forward drive.  It's gotta be something simple...My father-in-law wouldn't have possessed a train that didn't run forwards.

[Northwoods Flyer]

DocBen,

Congratulations on getting the 4615-6 from your set to run.       And if all you had to do was oil it and set it on the track its a testimony to the endurance and reliability of these old "toys"  Unfortunately I don't have an example of this engine in my collection to look at.  My assumption is that because it is an engine produced under Gilbert ownership - that it has the typical e unit from that era.  I'm not particularly knowledge about about the electronics of those engines (maybe someday when I retire).  One of the other folks who is familiar with the inner workings of the engines can help.  I'm wondering if it has anything to do with your use of the modern Lionel transformer.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[DocBen]

 Also...I cleaned and oiled my 1938 Flyer today and put it on a Fastrack O-guage track with a Lionel 80 watt transformer.  It runs backwards.  I do not see a switch anywhere on the engine that would reverse the loco.  Any ideas on what is going on?  It's beautiful to see it run for the first time...but would like to see it run FORWARDS!  Haa... thanks guys.

[DocBen]

 By the way...I have emailed Eric Trickel several times in the last couple of months, with no response.  Anyone have contact with him recently?  Really want to get restoring my 1938 Flyer...thanks!

[Northwoods Flyer]

RockIsland52

Northwoods......I feel like a freakin' voyeur.  Thanks for your continued dedication to this superb thread.

Jack

Jack,

Thanks for the compliment.  Your comment has me wondering exactly what it is I have posted on the thread.

I haven't been found anything risque yet that I posted .

I'm just glad you have found a certain level of excitement at looking at Prewar beauties. 

Large Box Cabs

Since I posted pictures of the queen of the fleet of electrics in the last entry I thought I would post some photos of additional engines that classify as large box cabs.

3015

The American Flyer 3015 Box Cab loco was available in 1927, and shares a body with locos 3019 and 3020. The body color is medium green, with a length of 10 1/2 inches and a track activated reverse.

 

3019

 

This New York Central type large box cab was available in 1923-1924.  It looks like a 3020 without the pony trucks.  It is also 10 1/2 inches long.  It comes in several colors.  I don't have an example of this engine in my collection at this time.

 

3020

This is the top of the line electric outline model.  It was introduced by American Flyer in 1922 and appeared in the catalog through 1925.It was available in a variety of body colors including black, dark green, brown, maroon and a lighter green. It came with a track activated reverse; at least one version did not have a reverse.

 

 

3115

The American Flyer 3115 Box Cab loco was available from 1928 to 1930 and 1932 to 1934. This model included external headlights and a reverse unit, either track activated or remote.

 

 

3185

 

This large box cab was available from 1928 thru 1930. It is similar to the 3115 as it comes in the same colors.  It has a new remote control reverse unit.  There is a slot in the roof to accomodate the lever that controls the reverse unit and a hole punched in one end for  the reversing rod.  I do not have an example of this electric outline engine in my collection at this time either.

 

All of these engines came in beautiful passenger sets.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[RockIsland52]

Northwoods......I feel like a freakin' voyeur.  Thanks for your continued dedication to this superb thread.

Jack

[Northwoods Flyer]

3020 Large Boxcab

In 1922 American Flyer added large boxcab electric-outline locomotives to its line of trains. The 3020 was first cataloged in 1922 and ran through 1925.  It was patterned after the New York Central's Twentieth Century.  It is an impressive 12 1/2 " long.

This is the dark green version with red windows (version C)

 

The number 3020 and ownership are rubber stamped at each end.

 

 

 

The distinctive pony trucks add to its impressive and powerful appearance.  You can tell it is related to its cousin used to run the President's Special in Wide Gauge.

 

 

It makes me wish that American Flyer had actually manufactured Narrow Gauge versions in the color schemes of the Wide Gauge versions.

 

This is the black version (version B)

 

 

 

 

The 3020 had a bell, headlight and pantograph cast into a piece on the roof.  This piece appeared on several other of the boxcabs as well.

 

 

These engines are very impressive pulling a consist of passenger cars or freight cars.

 

 

If I didn't love steam engines so much I might consider "electrifying" the entire Blueboard Central.

 

 

The 3020 also comes in brown, maroon, and light green.  I'd love to see it in the Rookie Tan, Rolls Royce Blue and Cadet Blue of its Wide Gauge cousins.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Streamlined Sets

The Burlington Zephyr

I have posted photos of the Burlington Zephyr previously on the thread, but I thought I would follow through with the theme of streamliners for a while or at least until I run out of examples.

According to the Greenburg Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge, Flyer introduced its strealined sets with the cast aluminum Burlington Zephyr.  It was cataloged from 1934 to 1938.     

 1935 Catalog Cover

 1934 Catalog

 

During those years it appeared in the catalog in a number of forms.  I believe that this is the 1934 version, which is a three car set.

 

 

American Flyer used two different versions of the engine or as it was called,  The Power Car.  9910 was used in 1934 and 1935.

The Power Car was redesigned in 1935 - lengthening and widening the casting.  It was renumbered 9914 and ran in the catalog until 1938.

 

9910

 

 

 

 

 

The other cars cataloged in various sets were:

 

9911 Baggage (Combination Car) 1934-1938

 

Version B

 

9912 Observation Car  1934-1938

 

 

9913 Coach   1935-1938

 

I don't have an example of this car in my collection.  Its one of those items on my "Wanted List".

 

Growing up in Chicago I remember going to the the Museum of Science and Industry as a child on Field Trips or with my parents and looking at the full size train sitting there on display, wishing that I had been able to have an opportunity to ride in it.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

O-GaugeOscar,

From what I have read, American Flyer was not doing well in the late 1930's as far as sales are concerned. In 1938 W.O. Coleman, who owned American Flyer sold (or as the story goes - "gave") the company to A.C. Gilbert. Coleman wanted to be rid of the ailing company.  At the time Gilbert made Mysto Magic Sets and of course one of the other toys that every boy wanted - Erector Sets. 

The story goes that Coleman and Gilbert were shooting at Gilbert's private game reserve in New Haven when Gilbert mentioned he was thinking about manufacturing toy trains. Instead, Coleman said he would give his struggling American Flyer Company to Gilbert in return for a share of the profits.  Gilbert quickly agreed and the deal was completed within a short time.

Gilbert soon moved the company from Chicago (hence why earlier examples of American Flyer trains made during the Coleman era are referred to as "Chicago" Flyer) to New Haven Connecticut and he redesigned the product line.  Gilbert pioneered 3/16" O gauge in 1939.  Apparently Gilbert aquired everything American Flyer in the deal since the older designs of Flyer continued in the catalogs through 1940. By 1941 the old designs were gone from the catalogs.  I have read somewhere too that all of the employees from the Chicago factory were offered positions in the new location in New Haven and that a number of them made the move.

This is a link to a great site to do research on the Gilbert era trains.  It has most of the catalogs posted for the years 1938 to the end.  I have linked to it serveral times on the thread.

http://myflyertrains.org/

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[O-GaugeOscar]

 Northwoods Flyer,

Very interesting...thanks for the additional insights on the Pennsy passenger set.  I didn't realize Gilbert took over American Flyer in 1938.  Was AF bankrupt?  Did Gilbert purchase only the assets - existing merchandise inventory, trademarks, patents, etc?

As for posting photos, I'll first have to open an account at a photo hosting website (any recommendations?).  Unfortunately, I start a new work project this weekend, so I may be delayed....

 

Thanks again.

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

geeppe,

Hi Graeme,  Its nice to hear from you and have you pay the thread a visit.  I have appreciated seeing photos of your collection, and I think you provided a link to some video at one time. Please contribute anytime you have the opportunity.  Do you have any examples of British Flyer?

O-GaugeOscar,

to the thread.  Thank you for your kind words.  I'm glad that it has provide you with some entertainment (and bags under your eyes?  ) and that it has helped you find some information about your family trains.  Your questions about your American Flyer Pennsylvania Passenger set sound deceptively easy to answer, but they point out the discrepencies that exist in resource material about Flyer, and the inconsistencies that Flyer has in their own catalog.

The very simple answer is that the Pennsylvania Passenger set was first cataloged in 1936 as set number 1710-RT 

and appeared again in 1937 using basically the same catalog illustration and description but had a different set number of 1715.

By 1938 A.C. Gilbert had taken over the company and changes were taking place. The catalogs looked very different and the descriptions of items changed as did the items themselves.  There is a Pennsylvania Passenger set labeled as Train Set No 2. I believe that is a misprint and should be Train Set No.3 (which is hand written in my original catalog), since the freight set on the previous page is also called Train Set No.2 . The 1938 catalog description of the set indicates that the cars are now blue and not red.  The illustration of the set shows that there are different trucks on the cars.

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page13.htm

In 1939 the sets are no longer given names but only numbers.  The red passenger cars and the streamlined engine are present in the catalog, but they are not sold together as a set. And the streamlined engine has a new nose design.

Streamlined engine

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1311/AF_catalog_page15.htm

Passenger cars

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1311/AF_catalog_page16.htm

During these years the Wide/Low Profile passenger cars went through a number of changes - particularly in the trucks used.  The Streamlined passenger engine - Type XXI - also went through changes every year of the 4 years that it was cataloged (1936 - 1939).  I have not seen enough original sets to know or verify which cars and engines were actually used in the sets.  Again, Flyer is notorious for using pictures in their catalogs that did not match the actual components of sets.

I posted photos of a Pennsylvania Passenger set in the Christmas Wish List - 1936 a page earlier on the thread. 

 

 

 

 

 

I must confess that the components of this set have not always been together.  The cars are from the collection of trains that have been passed down through my family, but I purchased the engine relatively recently (and it has been restored).  The engine is the odd 1936 version that is black and has an 0-4-2 configuration.  I assembled the set to match the illustration in the 1936 catalog.

 

When I have some time I will do a post on the variations in the passenger cars and another on the changes in the streamlined engine.

 

So, depending on the actual components in your set I would say your Dad's train set could come from anywhere between 1936 and 1938.  It may be later if it is an uncataloged set, or if it is old stock held by a store and sold the next year.

 

I cannot remember seeing a complete set sold on ebay recently.  The cars, either as individual pieces or in sets of three are fairly common.  The engines also show up frequently in a wide variety of conditions.  Your best bet for value would be to "watch the bay" for individual pieces.

 

Do you have the capability to post pictures of the items that you have, both trains and accessories?  Perhaps someone can give you additional information, or I can do some additional research.

 

Thanks again for posting,

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[O-GaugeOscar]

 Northwoods Flyer,

Thanks for being such a great resource on all things American Flyer!  I've spent several late nights (and early mornings) reading and researching AF history through this thread.  I found our AF structures (mid- to late 1930's) here, along with my dad's train, the Pennsy passenger train set (steam locomotive, tender and three red cars) first offered in 1936.   What a great catalog!  That said, do you know how long AF sold the Pennsy passenger train set? (Any history would be appreciated.  My dad believes he received his train as a Christmas present in 1939.)  Any ideas on value today?  (I never see one on eBay.)

Thanks again!

 

 

[geeppe]

Greg, thank you.  I may not be a frequent contributor to this thread, but I do enjoy the stories and pictures.  I'm sure this thread will be a source of Flyer reference for years to come.

 

Cheers,

 

Graeme, Scotland

[Northwoods Flyer]

Happy 2nd Anniversary

Two years ago today I posted the first entry on this thread.  When I started it I never expected that I would still be posting photos and stories to it. And I didn't envision the number of folks who would participate by posting photos, and their own stories and asking questions.  It has been a great deal of fun for me; taking and posting photos, making strategic purchases to expand my collection and then sharing them with readers, waiting to see what the next post might be and by whom, and attempting to answer questions that have been posted. It has been a lot of fun and I have learned a lot.  Its been my therapy, and I can tell you it has been very satisfying.

I want to thank all those who have posted to this thread. It would not be what it is today without their participation.  And thanks to all of you who have read it.  I hope that it has provided as much fun and enjoyment to you as it has to me. I also hope that it has provided a source of information.

One of my favorite catalog covers from American Flyer's Prewar era is the cover from 1936.

It has been one of my collecting goals to be able to reproduce that cover with the models produced by Flyer contained in the catalog.  It has taken a number of years, but with the help of Santa and his elves I can finally do it.  I added the Union Pacific set recently.

So here is my anniversary gift and greeting to all of us who enjoy Prewar American Flyer trains.

 

 

 

Once again I would like to offer the invitation to post pictures of the American Flyer trains that you have, share thier stories, ask questions or just come and indulge in some reading and information gathering.  I'm looking forward to the coming year.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

[ogauge]

 Very true,  Most don't know its exists... and that is part of the fun!!!  I got the 559 about 30 years ago and from that point studied as much as I could on the subject.  I've had all but the 0-8-0 but admittedly a good portion of my 3/16th's O Flyer has been what many would consider junk but I am happy to restore them.  A few years ago I sold some of my favorites including a couple of 556's and 561's and a boxed passenger set among others.... the sting is still present.  Just recently I have aquired two 556's a 553 and the 534 for a good price so I am once again smitten.  I know what they are and truely belive they are all very much worth more than their postwar S counterparts (of which I have a few)... but thats just one guys opinion... They sure are tougher to find in any kind of usable condition!!!!!!!  I'll have to post some pics of my "junk"

[3railphillyoperator]

3/16th O gauge is not well knoen by the collector or the operator groups. Many  would say that American Flyer was only made in 2 rail S gauge. Some would remember that 3 rail tinplate O existed, less that Wide Gauge was made for years. But least known of all is 3/16th O.

I do not have the entire collection of 3/16th O, but do have a the 806 Northern 4-8-4 with Remote Directional Control (RDC). When a Lionel Transformer with whistle button has the button depressed, the engine will stop, when released, the engine will continue in it's origional direction. Now, if the transformer control is brought to no voltage, the engine will also stop, and when voltage is again applied, it will be in neutral, and finally if cycled by the control arm once again, it will go into it's origional direction.

RDC is a direct current signal carried in the third rail from the transformer (if Lionel whistle button) to the RDC controler in the American Flyer engine.  An over-ride is available by means of a hole about the dimension of a regular paper-clip in the top of th boiler, if the AF button is not available and a whistle button is also not available. (A non-RDC will have a slot and metal flat on-off for FNR in the same location).

AF and Lionel have made controllers which will send a DC signal on the third rail. These DC signals controllers can be set to provide either a positive or a negative signal. At the same time as AF made RDC, they also made the #490 whistling baggage car. As they both responded to the same polarity, the whistling baggage could only be used with FNR non-RDC 3/16th engines.

Lionel at the same time of the late 30's and early 40's brought out their scale masterpiece Hudson for T-rail solid track and lesser detailed Hudsons which run on 72" Dia. Tubular track. This and Lionel's B-6 were made with and without sound. When Lionel provided the equal of RDC, then they could not provide their whistle. until they found a controller able to offset the DC in both directions

I am given to understand that if the RDC quits working, they are almost impossible to fix. But if one recognizes that regular FNR is still there, then the engine has not become a shelf queen.

Best,

 

Hank Betz

[ironmaster3404]

I posted pics in a new thread. I included front and back pics of all the houses.

 
Here is the link.

 http://cs.trains.com/trccs/forums/p/167497/1840217.aspx#1840217

 The Ironmaster
 

[Northwoods Flyer]

ironmaster,

The set that you inherited from your mother looks to be in great condition.  Thanks for sharing the pictures and the story of its significance.  I have never seen any buildings like the ones that you have.  They are indeed a family treasure.  You might want to post them as a seperate thread on the forum with a request for information. You will probably get a better response there.  I know I would enjoy seeing the close up pictures that you have taken. 

ogauge,

I'm afraid that I am not going to be much help to you either. I have almost no representative pieces from Gilbert's 3/16 O gauge line.  From what I can tell from the Greenberg guide you have almost the whole range of wheel arrangements that they offered during its brief 3 year existance. The only thing you lack is an example of the 0-8-0. 

Here are some links to catalog pages:

534  http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page6.htm

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page26.htm

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page30.htm

531

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page29.htm

559

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1940Catalog/AF_1940_catalog_page5.htm

http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1940Catalog/AF_1940_catalog_page21.htm

 

When it comes to the electronics in these engines I am the last one to ask, but again from what I have read about the RDC operation your assumptions are correct.  I have never seen a controller for reversing either.  As with ironmaster, you might find answers to your questions if you posted a seperate thread on the main forum.  There are some well informed Flyer guy's there who know more about the inner workings of the motors.

Thanks to both of you for posting. I'll be interested in answers to your searches too.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[ogauge]

 Quick question for you, I have a 559, a 531 and a 534 all with their original RDC coils for the remote directional reverse.  I always thought these used a DC pulse like the Lionel whistle and have had sporadic success using my KW and ZW to actuate the RDC coil.   I guess I was wanting to know if the little RDC control button ( I belive the catalog calls it a 540 control button) has anything special in it.  I would kind of like to find a couple so I could set up using all original controls with my 12B for these loco's.

 

BTW, you nice City of Denver makes me want to put mine back together, its been in a box for about 8 years stripped and primed.....

[ironmaster3404]

Here is the 3110 set that I have that was mom's. It was purchased new in 1928, but it may be "last year"s stock." The engine still runs good. We had to put new wheels on it, as the originals "ballooned" in the heat of the attic years ago. The letterboards do have "Oriental Limited" over the windows. There is also a yellow "medallion" on the back railing that says "Flyer Limited." I have attached a pic of the rear of the observation car. And here is the original transformer that came with it, still works. I had to replace the cord, and was lucky to find a local hardware store that sold "braided iron cord," so it matches the original cord. As the entire insides is sealed in potting material, I had to dig out the potting to replace the cord. I also have a friend that worked at an electronics firm that was able to repot the transformer for me. I also kept the original track, but it is too beat up to use anymore. And finally, here is a group shot of the 6 wooden houses. These also date from 1928. I do not know who they were made by, as there is no manufacturer's mark that I can find. Originally, they had a light socket in the rear roof. My grandfather mounted them on a platform, and moved the lights to the bases inside, and plugged the holes in the roofs. I have never seen other examples of these houses, which makes me wonder how may survived the 80+ years. They are as fragile as eggshells. They are definitely manufactured, not home made. I have close-up front and back pics, if desired, I can post them. I am in the process of repairing the platform, and will remount them. When i get it done, I will post a pic or two of the platform, much as it would have looked in 1928. The Ironmaster.

[Northwoods Flyer]

ironmaster,

Thanks for the additional photo of your 2218 block signal.  This is one of the things that I like about collecting Pre War American Flyer - there is always some new variation to find, or some research to conduct.  My search at train shows and auctions will now have me looking for the "left hand" version of this accessory.  The Lionel cap on the top of the standard is an interesting addition.  All of my examples have the cast finial, but from the looks of them I suspect that some of them are actually reproductions.

ironmaster3404

....as one of my trains is my mother's green 3110 steeplecab Oriental Limited passenger set from 1928!

How nice that you have your mother's train;  First of all because it has stayed within the family and you know its history, and secondly because it was your Mother's train.  I love hearing stories of girls receiving and keeping their trains.  You have to wonder if that is one of the reasons their husbands were attracted to them in the first place.  Who can resist a beautiful girl with a train? 

Anyway, your comments about your set made me wonder if you actually might have The Explorer set from 1928.  It was cataloged with the green 3110 and passenger cars.  I don't have the cars to that set, but I wonder if they have Oriental Limited lithographed in the name board above the window.  Please post some photos of the set if you can.

 

There was a set called The Oriental in 1928 but it was orange and had cars with different lithography and 4 wheel trucks.

 

 

The Oriental Limited was cataloged in 1927 and had a different engine and the lithography on the cars had red windows.

 

Again, thanks for your contributions.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[ironmaster3404]

Thanks, great to be here. I have visited for some time, as one of my trains is my mother's green 3110 steeplecab Oriental Limited passenger set from 1928! I also have mom's original platform, but it needs some repair. She had no accessories to go with it, except for some wooden houses (manufacturer unknown), I found this forum and its great information as I have been acquiring some accessories to go with it. Anyway, I can answer the question on a green "left handed" signal. While looking on the web, I found a picture of a green left handed one. It is from an auction site from about a year ago. One thing of note: when i got my red one, it had a Lionel-like brass cap on it. I assumed that it was a later replacement for the missing finial, so I put one on a finial from another piece I have for the photo. The picture of the left handed green signal shows the same Lionel-like cap. So now I am wondering if this variation did not have the finial. I do have the original cap if I need to replace it. Here is a photo of the signal with the cap it came with. It is definitely small, as it is split from being forced on the post. Ironmaster

[Northwoods Flyer]

to the forum Ironmaster, and to this thread.

Great catch on the variation of the 2218.   I have never noticed that variation.  I have several 2218s in both green and red but none that is "left handed".  I agree with you that there must have been two different stampings to have the variation.  I wonder if there are green examples as well.  Now I have a new variation to be on the lookout for.

Here is a photo of the two right handed examples that I posted earlier on the thread:

 

Thanks for contributing.  Please post more.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[ironmaster3404]

Here is another interesting variation of the 2218 block signal that I thought I would share on this topic. I recently acquired the red block signal on the right of the photo. Notice that it is a "left-hand" version of the green "standard" signal (in relation of the signal to the post), as shown to the left. Here is what I can tell about the signal. It is definitely manufactured that way, and not one modified later on. While most of the parts could be used either way, the signal housing itself cannot just be turned upside down, as the "eyebrows" are part of the metal housing, not added on, and they are above the bulb. As I see it, unless the bulb holes/eyebrows were stamped in a separate step, then there must have been two dies? Other than this, the rest of the parts are identical. Ironmaster

[Northwoods Flyer]

Streamlined Sets

The Union Pacific

Way back before starting the Christmas Wish Lists I had posted some pictures of the Hiawatha and the streamlined cars to match. I think its time to pick up on that theme for a while.

In 1936 American Flyer introduced its version of the Union Pacific's streamlined City of Denver.  It appeared in the catalog until 1939, and in some uncataloged sets after that.  In 1936 it was cataloged with a coach with a whistle in it. By 1937 the whistle was gone. Here are some photos of what I believe is the 1937 version.

 

The engine, called a power car was numbered 1684.

 

 

 

The coach with the built in whistle (which I don't have) was numbered 1636Y.

 

Coaches without the whistle were numbered 1621Y.

 

 

The observation with its "boat tail" was numbered 1632Y.

 

 

The sets in 1936  and 1937 included the power car and three additional cars.  Sets in 1938 and 1939 included the power car and four additional cars.  The sets in 1936 and 1937 were painted a darker yellow than the sets in 1938 and 1939.

 

Here is another shot of the Union Pacific making a visit to The Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines.

 

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

DocBen,

Sorry for the tardiness of my reply, but I've been away from home for a few days during the New Year holiday. The contact information that I have for Eric Trickel is probably the same information that you have already found:

Eric Trickel

541 North Charlotte Street

Pottstown, PA  19464

 

Phone:[phone] (Evenings and Weekends)

Email:  TRICKELCASTPARTS@YAHOO>COM

 

He seems to have the largest assortment of replacement parts for prewar American Flyer.

Good Luck in your restoration. Keep us posted on your progress, and lets see some pictures when you can.

Sturgeon-Phish:

Jim,

I'm glad that your resistance is weakening.    I think you will really enjoy having some O gauge Flyer in your collection.  If my information is correct  - gathered from lurking - you have some Flyer track coming from lionelsoni.  That is a great start.  I have gone to using all Fastrack.

Here are a couple of older photos or the Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines that show my use of Fastrack.

 

 Every piece of my prewar Flyer travels on it just fine.  The only issue is with switches.  Old trains and new switches do not seem to be compatible.  I have gone to loops of track with no switches.  When you get your first Prewar Flyer engine you will find that it negotiates the track that came with your Polar Express set just fine.  Some of the bigger engines will need a larger diameter than 36 inches though.  Now lets see, what would be a good starter set for your entry into Prewar Flyer O gauge?

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Greg,

All too cool!  I am contemplating a new larger layout, and I am seriously considering a loop of three rail tubular track to employ some O AF.  You tempt me!

Jim

[DocBen]

 All I can say is WOW.  Lots of information there...thank you!  Yes exactly accurate with the details you provided.  I had done an internet search on Eric Trickel a few days ago for this catalog everyone talks about...and came up empty.  I emailed him, but haven't heard back yet.  Is there a link for this, or mail, or email?  Very interested in buying some new hardware...I gotta see this train run once at least! 

 Looks like I will be ordering the Standard Catalog in the near future.  Is there another source you think I should purchase where you found valuable information?

 Thanks again!!  I'll post pictures shortly... if I can figure out how to upload them on the site.

[Northwoods Flyer]

Hello DocBen,

to the forum. Lurkers are always welcome, and so are participants. If you have the capability to post pictures of your set please do so.  Photos are always welcome.

The engine in the No. 10 Northern Pacific freight set listed in the 1938 catalog has a catalog number of 4615-6. (Here is a link to a site showing the page from the 1938 catalog  http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/D1259/AF_catalog_page17.htm)

The casting itself is known as the Type XVI.  The casting was used for 4 different engines (423, 425, 4615-4, and 4615-6.  The 425 and the 4615-6 both have 6 drive wheels.) during the years 1938-1940.  The tender is the 3301 diecast semi-Vanderbilt tender.  The freight cars should have the sheet metal coupler, sometimes known as the curley Q coupler, which was only used in 1938.

Because the engine casting was only marketed for a 3 year period it is likely that there are fewer numbers of them around than some of the other engines.  The 4615-6 was only marketed for one year, 1938, so the number of those engines are relatively small. 

I checked EricTrickel's Cast Parts Catalog and he has both the wheels and the complete front truck available for this engine.

Your questions about whether to replace parts or leave them as original will get very different answers from different people.  In my opinion it is a very subjective decision that can take a lot factors into account.  When I look at adding a piece to my collection I prefer all original parts, but if the original wheels have deteriorated or are missing and have been replaced by appropriate replacements I find that completely acceptable. If you intend to sell the set you may want to hold on to all original parts that are replaced and include them when you pass it on to a new owner.  Some folks may not feel the same way.

As far as the transformer is concerned, go ahead and replace the plug and cord. Transformers are not very expensive and one in working order is more valuable than one that can't be used or needs to be fixed.

As to the value of the set, it depends on condition, and desireability to potential buyers, and how much money someone might be willing to spend to own it.  Generally a complete original set will bring a bit more than the sum of its parts (but not always), and all the extras like original boxes and the original set box and accessories will increase its value.  I hesitate to guess at a value. In David Doyle's Book Standard Catalog of American Flyer Trains he lists values for the 4615 as VG (C6) $350, EX (C7) $700 LN (C8) $1,100.  In my opinion those values are very very high.

Some pictures of your set might help with the determintation of its value.

Thanks for posting your questions.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer