Hi Jim,
Thanks for posting the picture of the 718 mail car. Its always nice to have you contribute. Your S gauge car had a predecessor in the O gauge 3/16 line that Gilbert marketed before the war. It was numbered 492 and according to the Greenberg guide it came in red, green, and tuscan. The cars were marketed in 1940 and 1941. I think its interesting that Gilbert continued the theme of some cars from the Coleman Chicago era. I have the S gauge versions packed away somwhere. I only have a very few examples of the pre war 3/16 O gauge line in my collection at the moment, and unfortunately the 492 is not one of them. I have been looking for an example of a picture to post but I haven't been able to find one yet.
I also thought of posting a video of the 718 in action, but I have not been able to find one on YouTube. Its a fun accessory to watch. I think there are some segments of it spliced into the American Flyer Boy's Railroad Club episodes too. I haven't been able to find any of them posted either.
I did find this copy of the page from the 1941 catalog that featured the 492. Its not in color, but you can see the similarity to the later S gauge car.
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page37.htm
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Here is the later 718 mailcar and pickup
Jim
Accessories - 4122 Mailbag Set - Wide Gauge
This accessory was offered a number of different times during the era that American Flyer marketed Wide Gauge Trains. It was also offered for the Narrow Gauge line of trains as Mailbag Set 122.
It comes in a nice compact box with the familiar American Flyer label
Accessories - 2005 Triangle Light
Flyer cataloged this accessory from 1935 thru 1939.
It came in two colors: blue and green
Darth,
That Royal Blue freight set looks fantastic. You did a really great job on your grandfather's set. I don't have any 3/16" O gauge in my collection yet.
Your set was cataloged in 1941. It appears on page 11.
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page11.htm
With a description on page 10.
http://www.myflyertrains.org/AF_Catalogs/1941Catalog/AF_1941_catalog_page10.htm
I am sure your grandfather would think it is great to see his train just like the day it arrived. Thanks for posting your pictures and for posting the before and after pictures on the other thread.
My Royal Blue train set, now fully repainted!
I know it's not all original pre-war, but I've done the best I can. It's not realistic like my HO stuff, but I don't care, because it's one cool looking set!
_________________________________________________________________
Type XV 4-6-2 Pacific Locomotive
In 1938 American Flyer introduced an entirely new style of locomotive; the die cast, type XV 4-4-2 Atlantics and 4-6-2 Pacifics.
The catalog number for the Pacific and tender combination was 4622-6
Lionel 659 Dump Car
This version of the 659 Dump Car was available from 1935 thru 1942.
The bin swivels to either side to dump alongside the track and has a unique locking device to keep in it from tipping while moving.
It is well marked on the side of the bin.
Lionel 657 Caboose and American Flyer 3017 Caboose
Every train must come to an end. And in the prewar era no self respecting freight train would have been seen without a caboose. The similar offerings by Lionel and American Flyer were the 657 and the 3017.
Lionel 656 Cattle Car And American Flyer ???
Here is an example of Lionel producing a car for which American Flyer had no competion . As Mersenne6 has illustrated earlier on the thread, Flyer did not produce many examples of cattle cars or stock cars in their Pre War Narrow Gauge line and only one example in the Wide Gauge Line.
Lionel had several variations of a 6 inch cattle car. Here is one.
I got one reply to my previous post, how about a few more. Direct email is john@jeanandjohn.net.
Good evening,
I have been following this thread for some time and find it very interesting even though I am not an American Flyer collector, nor even a prewar collector. I am a volunteer at the TCA library and have been cataloging photographs for quite some time in anticipation of the future posting on line of the TCA collection. I wanted to let the contributors to this thread know that TCA welcomes and appreciates contributions of photographs such as those posted on this thread. If anyone is interested in making such a contribution, please contact me via an email and I will respond with further information.
I don't think I am violating any forum rules in posting this, but if so please let me know.
Lionel 655 Box Car and American Flyer 3015 Box Car
Lionel 654 Tank Car and American Flyer 3018 Tank Car
Dub I have very little American Flyer and thought I would post this. I would guess later twenties for the production years. I you can tell me anything,it would be aoppreciated.
I have very little American Flyer and thought I would post this. I would guess later twenties for the production years. I you can tell me anything,it would be aoppreciated.
Dub,
Your car is sometimes referred to as one of the "Lightning Bolt" or "Sparks" cars. The pattern of the lithography was first introduced in 1918 and refers to the sparks or lightning bolts that are at both ends of the name board and the design of three lightning bolts beneath the windows.
The Greenberg guide indicates that the Lightning bolt cars numbered 1206, as your car is, are from the early 1920's. Your car looks as if it has Type II, eight wheel trucks, which were used from 1914-1924. A car that is very similar to yours is illustrated in the Greenberg guide on page 125, although the lithography is just slightly different - the windows on that car have an additional yellow center to the windows on the doors.
The entries on pages 11 and 18 that Mersenne6 mentions show some additional pictures.
It's a lot earlier than that - check pp.10 and 18 of this thread for more information/pictures
I can offer no information, except that the roof from this car was put on an 801 Lionel caboose from 1915 somewhere along the line in our family. I finally corrected that this year and now have the roof made by AF as a leftover family heirloom. The AF roof is similar to a Marklin but differs in the size of the roof dimples and the contoures of the end slopes. I have noticed an article from TCA publication that showed a similar car along with a baggage car led by a cast metal wind-up 0-4-0 American outline steam engine and tinplate tender. Time frame about 1913. my dad was born in 1908, and I in 1942. I vaugely remember a wind-up loco, but can't be sure if it was the same as in the article published within the last year. other research seems to indicate the same or similar up to the mid 20's.
Best,
Hank Betz
Lionel 653 Hopper and American Flyer 3019 Dump Car
While these two cars are not exactly of the same design they do serve similar functions and both of them have added play value because they both have a manual operation function.
The 653 was Lionel's 8 wheel version which was cataloged in this color through 1939.
Lionel 652 Gondola and American Flyer 3016 Sand Car
I realized not too long ago that I have been collecting trains for over 25 years. If you take into account that I actually bought my first "old train" when I was 12 years old it is a lot longer than that. The real collecting began shortly after my wife and I were married and I wanted to set up my old trains around the tree for our first Christmas together. It may come as no surprise to those of you who also have the collector gene that the focus of my collecting has changed several times over that period of time. I won't go into great detail about the directions my collecting has taken but let me say that as the direction changed there have been a number of boxes packed up and stored in the darker areas under the train table. The day of reconning eventually comes, and it becomes necessary to go through those boxes just to find out what is in them. I've been doing that during the last few weeks. What I have found has amazed me at times.
While I have always had American Flyer as my primary love I have dabbled in Lionel as well. While going through the boxes I discoverd that I did more than dabble on a few occasions. Before I began to collect American Flyer Pre War trains in earnest, I collected Lionel Pre War trains. That "old train" that I bought when I was 12 was a Lionel. I discovered that I have both small and large sized freight cars from the Pre War era. So I decided that I would post some pictures of what the two compaines were producing at about the same time. I am far from an an expert on Lionel Pre War trains. In fact the only reference books I have on Lionel are the series of books produced by Touhy and McComas.
The Flyer items that I will be posting have also been posted earlier on the thread. Those entries show details and variations of the items I could take pictures of in my own collection, or that Mersenne6 had in his collection.
Lets start with the small sized freights
Lionel 651 flatcar and American Flyer 3046
3210 9.5" Tank Cars
Way back on pages 9 and 10 of this thread Mersenne6 and I covered the Tank Cars that were produced by American Flyer in the Pre War era. I recently aquired another variation. So I decided to quote the entry about the enameled cars and add the new variation at the end.
Northwoods Flyer Let me return to Flyer Tank Cars for a moment. Here are some examples of the 9 1/2" enameled tank cars. They were cataloged from 1928-1939. This car constitutes a small collection in its own right. By my count in the Greenberg book there are at least 20 variations. These variations occur with changes in the color of the tank, the color of the frame and the difference in trucks. These three cars all have the same frames and trucks (known as type VIII). The third one has been altered by a previous owner who must have taken a tin snips to the truck to give it the look of a step in the middle of the truck. This version is from 1938 which you can tell by the trucks and more obviously by the sheet metal knuckle "Curly Q" coupler. This one is not listed in the Greenberg Guide, so I guess this makes 21 variations. This is the 410 cataloged in 1939 and 1940 with its original box. The car should be equiped with Flyer's link and pin couplers. This car is original to my family. My father bought conversion kits sold by Gilbert to change the link and pin couplers to knuckle couplers. He managed to do the conversion on several of the cars. At some point I plan to change them back to the original link and pin. If anyone has other examples of these cars please post them. Northwoods Flyer
Let me return to Flyer Tank Cars for a moment.
Here are some examples of the 9 1/2" enameled tank cars. They were cataloged from 1928-1939. This car constitutes a small collection in its own right. By my count in the Greenberg book there are at least 20 variations. These variations occur with changes in the color of the tank, the color of the frame and the difference in trucks.
These three cars all have the same frames and trucks (known as type VIII). The third one has been altered by a previous owner who must have taken a tin snips to the truck to give it the look of a step in the middle of the truck.
This version is from 1938 which you can tell by the trucks and more obviously by the sheet metal knuckle "Curly Q" coupler. This one is not listed in the Greenberg Guide, so I guess this makes 21 variations.
This is the 410 cataloged in 1939 and 1940 with its original box. The car should be equiped with Flyer's link and pin couplers. This car is original to my family. My father bought conversion kits sold by Gilbert to change the link and pin couplers to knuckle couplers. He managed to do the conversion on several of the cars. At some point I plan to change them back to the original link and pin.
If anyone has other examples of these cars please post them.
This version of the 3210 was cataloged in 1928 and 1929.
The early versions of the 3200 cars had lots of brass accents, including identification tags with the indiviual car numbers.
Accessories
Crossing Gate 2222(b)
American Flyer used the same number for a crossing gate of a different design. This version was marketed from 1936-1939.
Crossing Gate 2222 (a)
Over the years American Flyer produced a wide variety of trackside accessories, including crossing gates. This particular model was cataloged in 1928-1934 and again in 1936-1939. While the crossing gate carries the same number during those time periods, it is actually two different designs.
This is the early version from 1928-1934.
2042/4042 Crossing Gate
In gathering my collection I have always tried to have the best example of an item that I could afford. Sometimes that means I have a well used example of an item that ranks somwhere low on the TCA grading standards. On occasion I have upgraded on an item if I it is a good deal. I have not often sought out pristine boxed items simply because they are usually priced well beyond my budget. But on occasion an item that is "in the box" has come my way. I have learned to recognize the type of boxes that American Flyer used in the prewar era. And I will admit, when I see one at a meet or in a shop or in an Ebay auction, my heart beats a little faster.
Hi 3railphillyoprerator,
Hank,
Thanks for providing the information on the 3/16" O gauge passenger cars above. I have very little of the prewar 3/16" equipment in my collection, so any information on it is very welcome.
The Other Freight Cars V - Addendum B.1
The Caboose 9.5 inch version
Back on page 29 I posted some pictures of variations of the 9.5 inch caboose to fill in the information that Mersenne6 provided. Since that time I have added an example of the 3201 Caboose to the collection.
The 3201 was produced in 1932. It is a non-illuminated enamel version of the 3211. The photo does not show it, but the roof and the cupola are a darker shade of red than the body of the caboose.
It has two brass American Flyer Lines plates per side.
Hi,
Tinplate Pullman 496 and Observation 497 were made in tuscan color and match the cars in the photos except they are 6-6 wheel sets. They were made both illuminated and non-illuminated. These were offered in tuscan, green, and blue. In addition, in tinplate, a green operating RPO #492 and a gray whistling baggage car #490 were mad,.as well, as a non-whistle baggage car was offered in green, tuscan and blue.
Of those offered your picture shows the baggage (# unknown by me) and the coachs # 495
Diecast 521 Pullman Baggage/Club and 524 Pullman in 6-6 wheels were made but no diecast observation was offered in O gauge. Post-war the S gauge observation 6-6 in plastic was made as 654. All were offered in green and in tuscan.
Hi Graeme,
Its nice to have you post here again. I agree that the Marx cars look very nice with the Gilbert engine. If I were ever to expand beyond Flyer items I would consider a set of those cars. I'm not sure which of the Gilbert O engines you have but here is a picture from the 1941 catalog that I think might be your engine. Gilbert only produced these 3/16" O gauge engines from 1938 to 1942.
Delighted to see that the interest in pre war Flyer continues. This photo shows one of the post Gilbert pre war locos, built to 3/16 scale but running on 0 gauge track, pulling Marx tin passenger cars. I think the cars and loco look perfect together.
The Iron Horse
The Iron Horse passenger set appeared in the 1930 and 1931 catalogs. It had the nice enameled passenger cars with plenty of brass accents and two shade of orange.
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