Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Eljay]

Thanks again. It looks as if I'll might have to try to make this part from scratch. My metal shop teacher from my old jr high school days must be up there somewhere laughing.

Eljay 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Eljay

Could you post a couple of shots of the cupola on the roof. This loco is close to being complete. Much appreciated.

Thanks,

Eljay

Eljay,

I didn't forget about you.  It just takes a while to get around to getting the photos taken and posted.  Here are a few detail shots of the roof of the 3107. 

 

 

 

 

 

Good luck in finding the missing parts.  Keep us posted on your progress with lots of photos.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Switching Topics I  ....Electric Switch #405

  Through the pre-war years American Flyer made an unusual number of switches for the O gauge market.  The #405 switches were introduced sometime between 1918 and 1925 - this is the gap in my collection of reproduction Flyer catalogs.  In 1925 the catalog listed the pair of switches but indicated that only the right hand switch (the one with the switch stand) was illustrated. The same switches were offered as #408 - the difference being a single light fixture on the right hand switch stand.

  What makes the #405 switch interesting is the fact that the left hand switch of the pair is a trailing point spring switch. Just like the prototype the switch is spring loaded so that a train approaching from the facing point direction (from the bottom of the picture) cannot "pick the points" and go left. Whereas a train entering on the curve from the left switch does not need to stop and wait for the switch to be thrown.  For this train, as its wheels hit the points the force of the wheels pushes the spring loaded points open and let the train pass.

   The center rail pickups on the engine and any illuminated car coming in from the left would have to touch the section of rail (identified with the red arrow) that, for straight ahead running, would be a grounded outer rail. To keep everything running this section of track is actually a supported piece of hard rubber.  The hard rubber piece is asymmetrical - there is more rubber face on the left hand side than on the right hand side and this, for roller equipped trains, can result in some rather spectacular sparks.  The fix is simple - put a piece of electricians tape on the lower right side of the supported rubber - this covers up the grounded metal that supports the hard rubber.

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

ivesboy,

Here are some detail photos of the valve linkages on the 420. Perhaps they will help.

 

 

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

ivesboy,

It sounds as if you really have been bitten by the Flyer bug.

ivesboy

Okay....im excited that i finally have an excuse to buy a milk car! Did they make one with link couplers! Those cars look so neat!!!!!

Flyer did make a link coupler Borden's Milk Car in 1939-1940.  It is numbered 412.

Enjoy the hunt.

I will post some close ups of the valve linkages on my #420 later.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

 

  For parts

  Eric Trickel

 541 North Charlotte Street

 Pottstown, Pa. 19464

[e-mail]

    It sounds like the parts you are looking for are

    AO38 Lead truck, swivel style

    AO35B trailing truck

    AO30 - Wheel lead truck

    AO32 Wheel, trailing truck

    AO41 Weight over axle lead or trailing truck

   AO44 Axle lead or trailing truck

   AO420-2 Screws and spacer (one side) for the valve gear assembly

     He has a picture ot the #420 on pp. 17 of his most recent catalog and these numbers are from that page.

    The only thing I don't know about - you could ask him - is the spring for the auto reverse.

[ivesboy]

 

     You know i found those too and logged on to post them!

 Anyway i have a few questions.

 First my engine is missing a few parts. I need the lead and trailing trucks, a spring for the auto reverse, and some screws.

 It looks like someone took the engine apart and put it back with some screws moved around. Am i correct to assume the screws which hold the eccentric linkage to the shell should be shouldered?

 Also were is a good source for the parts i need. I usually buy from Jeff but he doesnt have much flyer.

Also could you guys cough up some part numbers to aid me in ordering these. Im gonna go back to the antique shop and hunt for some erector parts. My 420 has very little skid wear so that would explain why.

   I have to admit.....It runs very well, i was quite surprised at how mechanic friendly it was. I had only worked on S gauge before and didnt much care for it. This may start a new page in my collecting!

   Okay....im excited that i finally have an excuse to buy a milk car! Did they make one with link couplers! Those cars look so neat!!!!!

[Northwoods Flyer]

ivesboy,

Coincidentally, I just found these pictures of an Erector set with a 420 in it on Ebay.  I borrowed the pictures from there.  I'm not sure if that is a forbidden action or not.  If it is, my apologies to the poster.

From this photo it appears to be a set 10 1/2, and is pre war.

I wouldn't mind having a set like this.

I can certainly send you my email, but I don't consider questions about Flyer as spam on the thread. There have been plenty in the past and I would hope that the thread can be a forum for discussion as well.  Or if you would like to start a seperate thread with your questions, that would be welcome too.  If you have a question about Flyer, my guess is that others would benefit from any information that we find to share; if we can find it.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[ivesboy]

 

     Yep, no tender. Bought at an antique shop, just the loco, but they did have alot of erector sets. I think its a gorgeous engine, very art deco compared to other manufacturers trains of the era. Has a slight ding in the cab roof, but not too shabby. I need some parts though....Do you have email for some other questions? I dont want to cloud up the thread with spam....Thanks again.

[mersenne6]

 As Northwoods and I and others have noted - variation is the spice of prewar American Flyer.  I photographed this set several years ago.  It was complete and boxed.  The box had the New Haven address and the boxes were the A.C. Gilbert style.  Unfortunately, I didn't write down the set number.  As you can see the engine is as you described and the couplers are the Gilbert link but the tender and the cars all have brass journal boxes.  The cars were enameled and decaled and the caboose was illuminated.

[Northwoods Flyer]

Greetings ivesboy  ,

 

to the American Flyer O zone.  I'm glad you decided to venture into this area of the forum.

BTW I still enjoy your story of your Presidents Special and its history with your family.

I assume that this is the engine that you have aquired.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The information that I have about the 420 is excerpted from the Greenberg guide.  The 420 is known as the Type X boiler casting.  It was introduced in 1932 as one of two entirely new engines.  It appeared in catalogs in 1932-1933, 1934, 1938-1939.  It was used as the basis for a number of engines. It filled out American Flyer's range of less expensive die-cast steamers.

 

In 1938 when Gilbert aquired American Flyer it included the 420 engine only, without a tender, in some Erector Sets. These engines will show up pretty often without a tender for that reason. American Flyer started using nickel trim on locomotives in 1940.  Prior to that the examples of the 420 that I have use copper and brass accents in handrails,bells, windows, etc.  The 420 locomotive was not cataloged in sets in 1940.  If your engine has nickel trim it is most likely from 1940 and may have actually come from an Erector set or it might have been from one of the uncataloged sets. 

 

The engine that I have has the nickel trim and the accompanying tender also has nickel trim.  In combination like this the Greenberg guide gives the combination the number 422, the engine is 420 and the tender is 421.  I don't have any idea what else might have been included in the uncataloged set.  I could check my catalogs for the cars that came with this engine type other years

 

The Type X   #420 is also part of the double header set produced in 1939 but it does not have nickel trim.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Eljay]

Great detail shots! These will help a lot. One other question. Could you post a couple of shots of the cupola on the roof. This loco is close to being complete. Much appreciated.

Thanks,

Eljay

[ivesboy]

 

      Good evening gentlemen..... I picked up a satin black 420 loco today for a small fee. I figured i'd travel into the flyer O sector for awhile. The loco has nickel trim. Could you guys school me as to it's background and what cars it came with? Thanks in advance.

[Northwoods Flyer]

 Eljay,

You asked for some pictutes of the motor in a 3107.  I dug mine out and as I told you in an email I am hesitant to take the body off because it is held in place by 4 metal tabs that bend and become more fragile with each bending.  I can tell by looking at it that mine has been worked on in the past.  The paint on the tabs is scratched and missing.  I am making an assumption that the pictures that I have taken are of the motor that originally came with the body because it matches the description in the Greenberg guide.  I can see some rewiring and I am a bit suspicious that it has been rewheeled.  I hope the pictures give you something to go on.

Your 3107: 

Mine:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe this will help you identify a motor for the 3107 if you come across it.  The most distinctive feature appears to be the sliding bar for the reversing unit that protrudes through the roof.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Eljay]

Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed to know.

Eljay

[mersenne6]

  The lack of wheels with simulated counter weights certainly suggests both motors are from electric outiline engines.  I pulled out my #1218 and the the first motor seems to be a match for that locomotive.  The second motor with the headlight mount and the insulation paper for the brushes matches the appearance of the motor in my #1096. 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Eljay,

   to the forum and to this thread.  Thanks for posting your pictures and questions.  I will go through my engines and see if I can post some pictures for you.  I admire your willingness to bring back some basket cases to operating condition.  We all have our interests within the hobby.  I wish you luck in your search for parts.  Occasionally motors show up on Ebay.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Eljay]

I am new to posting in general and to the pre-war AF addiction in general so here goes.

I have an AF1218 loco with a missing cab top as shown:

and an AF 3107 missing a motor and copula:

 

Small parts such as bells and pantographs seem to be available from parts dealers but body parts and motors can be tough to find. I'm hoping that someone here might have (or be) a source for these things. Also I'm having a hard time finding out which motors go with which locomotives for pre-war AF. Even the TCA museum doesn't seem to have much info on this subject. It would be very helpful to those of us who are crazy enough to try to assemble our treasures from the parts we can find on the internet or at train shows to have photos of the insides of pre-war equipment. I have already run into too many pre-war items cobbed together from incorrect parts or even from parts made by different pre-war manufacturers. It would be great if we could post photos with the correct identifications of motors which go with our AF locos. To that end I am posting photos showing six views of locomotive motors.

First a 1218 motor that I'm pretty sure is correct:

 

 

Second an unidentified AF motor:

 

If anyone can help with identification of this one it would be greatly appreciated. Also if anyone has a photo of the correct 3107 motor it would be very helpful.

Thanks,

Eljay

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Other Freight Cars  V

The Caboose - Addendum A

Back on page 24 Mersenne6 posted lots of information on the caboose production of American Flyer.  Here are a few more pictures of the 6.5 inch variations of the enameled caboose.  In 1930 American Flyer painted the caboose in enamels.

3017

Type VII truck, red body, green roof and silver lettering

 

Type VIII truck, orange roof, silver lettering

 

 

Type VIII truck, green roof, silver lettering

 

 

Type VIII truck, red body, darker red roof, decals

 

 

232

1939 version  -   red body, darker red roof, silver lettering, type XII trucks and type X knuckle coupler (curly cue)

 

 

3017

red body, darker red roof, type XII truck, type VII coupler, this is just like the 232 but without the curly cue coupler, decals under window only

 

 

1127

This is technically not one of the enameled versions.  It is an uncataloged version.  Mersenne6 shows the 4 wheel version back on page 24.  This is the 8 wheel version from  1936-1937 with type X trucks.

 

 

There are other variations. Just as was once true with real railroads, the caboose is an easy car find and every freight train needs one.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Eljay]

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

1/22/2009 

Today marks the one year anniversary of the founding of this thread.  When I started it I was hoping that I would be able to connect with other Pre War American Flyer enthusiasts to hear their stories of collecting and to see the pictures of items that they have collected or found interesting.  I was hoping that it would gather information about Flyer in one place.  When I started collecting I found it difficult to find information. I wondered if there would be any interest from others on the forum. The over 30,000 views to this thread would indicate that there has indeed been interest.

For me the thread has been a great deal of fun, and an educational experience. I have learned from others and I have had to do the research to answer questions presented by other posters. It has allowed me to be active in a great hobby while expanding my knowledge base and making some friends along the way.

I want to thank all of you who have participated in this thread during the last year; those who have read it regularly, those who have posted pictures and stories, those who have asked questions or provided additional information.  Most of all I want to thank Mersenne6 for being such an important part of this thread. His collection and wealth of information have helped make it what it is today. I have enjoyed collaborating with him. I have been delighted by the response and its gratifying to know that there are others who enjoy the charm and history of American Flyer Trains.

So let me offer this greeting to all of you who participate;

Happy Anniversary

Here is to the continuation of enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Manual Reverse

The technology used in many of the toy trains produced today is very impressive, and to some of us confusing.  Technology and electronics have changed in 80 years.  But even 8 decades ago toy manufacturers were being creative and innovative to produce toys that drew the interest of children.  American Flyer came up with an interesting way to reverse its electric outline engines.  Initially all reversing was done manually, but with this small accessory it was possible to manually reverse an engine at a remote location.

 

This little gizmo attaches to tubular track by means of the hooked end and the thumbscrew.

 

 

Those engines with manual reverse capabilities were equipped with a reversing bar that stuck out on both sides of the frame.

 

 

When the manual reverse accessory is folded down it lays flat at the side of the track.

 

 

And the engine passes over the trip without any effect.

 

 

When the accessory is folded up it sticks up along the edge of the track.

 

 

When the engine passes over the raised accessory the reversing bar strikes it and rotates the bar and the engine reverses.

 

 

 

If the engine strikes the trip at a high speed it immediately throws the engine into reverse.  Imagine the effect on the cars following.  Those poor passengers, and the damage to freight would be incredible.

 

The reversing option was mentioned in catalog descriptions and the reversing track trip was usually included in the set, as you can see in the illustration of The Oriental Limited and The Jeffersonian from the 1927 catalog.

 

 

I'd say that was a pretty clever way to handle a desire for reversing a train.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

234 Suburban Station  -  variation

Those of you who follow this thread or have read all the way through it know that I add variations to earlier posts as I find them.  Back on page 10 I documented the variations of the 234 station that I have collected.

 

I recently came across a 5th variation.  It has a red roof which has some embossed ridges on it.

 

 

And here it is with its green roofed twin.  Interestingly the green roofed version does not have any embossing on it.

 

 

With the way that American Flyer used existing stock to make up items for sale to accounts and include in sets I have a feeling that there are variations yet to be found.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Uncataloged Set

American Flyer is well known for assembling sets, for stores and other outlets, that did not appear in their catalog.  This has created some interesting variations and unusual sets that show up. I have aquired most of the items in my collection one or two pieces at a time.  Recently I came across a full set that I recognized from Greenberg's book.  In the book it is listed in the passenger car section.  Its the set on the right.

 

My set contains a #614 steamer.  Mersenne6 describes this engine on page 13 of this thread.  It has the typical problem of deteriorating wheels and has a tender labeled "Champion", althought it is difficult to see it in the photo.

 

 

It also comes with a baggage.  Note that the door is a different color than the one shown in Greenberg, the door also has no lithography as compared to similar baggage cars, and the car has the Great Northern logo.

 

 

 

You have to wonder if there was any problem with liscensing agreements - somehow I doubt it.

 

 

There are two identical passenger cars

 

 

And an observation car.

 

 

None of the cars have numbers on them identifying them, and all are without journals, just like the photos in the Greenberg book.

 

One of the things that I enjoy so much about this forum is the ability to exchange information. I contacted Mersenne6 to see if he could help me with any additional identification or information.  I was curious to see if I could find out who sold these sets.  He managed to come up with some additional facts:

 

" The cars you are asking about are numbered #1226, 1227, and 1228.  As noted they are unmarked but they came in cardboard sleeves with the number rubber stamped on the sleeve.  The engine is our old friend #614 of the crumbled wheels fame. It is identical to the one I photographed and posted in response to the earlier question concerning that engine's wheels.(edit - page 13)  I've never seen the set with a box so I don't know who marketed it but I have seen two sets with the cars, engine, and tender in the cardboard sleeves.  This would put the set in the 1935-37 time frame because of the method of packing the cars."

 

He also provided a picture of a car and its sleeve.

 

Many Thanks Mersenne6 for the additional information.

 

So it is still possible to find information about items that hasn't been published in books.  The hunt for information and the history of items is something that keeps me interested in this hobby.  I still don't know who marketed the set. The hunt continues.  If you have any information about this set I'd enjoy hearing it.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

 

[johnnyt]

Hey, thank you for the info and pics can you send it to me in a ( p.d.f. file )? I have been wanting more info on it , i found it when i painted apartments for a living, someone left it behind when they moved( my gain).Check my posts in the toy train forum, i have an article with pics of my train!! I think the whole rocket freight set is worth around $1000.00 with that loco

[Northwoods Flyer]

  to the forum and welcome to the thread.

Your 21004 is indeed a nice engine.  It is an uncataloged version of the 0-6-0 switcher in S gauge.  Most of my S gauge collection is packed up in boxes, but I did go and hunt down the pictures of it in Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer S gauge Vol 1.  Here are a couple of pictures of it.  I will have to go look through my catalogs to see if I can find the page that the set appears on.  It will probably show it as the 21005 in the catalog.

Here is the picture of the 21004 and its almost identical twin the 21005

 

And some closer views

 

 

 

That's a great way to start a collection.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

[johnnyt]

Hi,beautiful A.F. collection! I have a rare 1957 uncataloged #21004 loco and slant back tender w/ rocket freight set,and i'm in love with it!! Nice pics

[Northwoods Flyer]

Year's Beginning

One year ends and another begins.  As Mersenne6 ushered out the old in grand style, and with a visual feast of American Flyer trains, let me welcome you to the new year of 2009. 

The Roman god Janus, for which the month of January is named was the god of gates, doors, doorways, and beginnings and endings.  Janus has the ability to look into both the past and the future.  He is depicted as having two faces that look in opposite directions.

 

It makes me wish that Flyer had produced some form of double A unit in prewar equipment. I guess the closest I can get is that double header set from 1939.  Post war Gilbert Flyer collectors have many examples of double A units to choose from.

It has been great fun looking into the past of American Flyer history and researching items and sets that have been presented.  As I look into the future on this New Year's day I can tell you to expect more of the same as we present more pictures of Prewar American Flyer equipment.  There is plenty yet to come.

As we begin the new year I want to wish all who read this thread a safe, healthy, happy and prosperous year.  May you add some of Flyer's wonderful toys to your collection and come to appreciate those that you already own. And may all of your plans have enough track to complete them.

 

Happy New Year!

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Year's End

 

     So here we are - 2008 is almost over and this thread is almost a year old.  We've counted cars, our keyboards have been dusted with the soot from hard charging steam powered trains, we've had our eyes dazzled with the lingering after image of night time sparks from the overhead wires as the electrics whizzed past, taken a tour of American Flyer architecture, asked and answered any and all manner of questions related to prewar American Flyer and in general had a great time.  Below is a New Year's Eve visual feast to augment the more traditional one.

 

 

 

....and here's our young Flyer fan looking out in anticipation of the trains that will be rolling this way in 2009.

 

 

Wishing you all the best in the coming year.

 

              Mersenne6

[Northwoods Flyer]

Christmas List 1930  -  Part II

The year after the big crash on Wall Street was pretty lean for many families.  Many folks considered themselves lucky to still have a job.  Even if your dad was still working many children got the message not to expect too much from Santa that year.  Even a set like the Clipper might have been out of reach of many families.

The country might have been in the depths of a depression, but the American Flyer Catalog was still healthy and robust and fueling the dreams of many a young railroad magnate.  If a full train set wasn't possible, Flyer offered a varied line of accessories to add to your empire.

 

What railroad wouldn't benefit from a Watchman's Tower

 

 

Or a Suburban Station

 

 

Or maybe even the Hyde Park Station?

 

 

With a letter to Santa pleading your case, and visits to several of the Santa's "helpers" present in the stores around town, you might just find those vital structures under your tree on Christmas morning.

 

 

And with the help of Grandma's egg money you might just find all three!

 

 

Afterall, even during a depression the railroads were a vital part of American commerce, even if it was just the railroad in your living room.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby,

 

Northwoods Flyer