The Other Freight Cars I
Crane Cars
#240
The first American Flyer crane car was offered in the G. Sommers 1910 catalog. It was listed as being 5 inches long and was cataloged as #240. I've never seen one, neither had Greenberg as of the last publication and I don't know anyone who has but I have been told it was made.
#M1106A
In 1914 Flyer offered a crane car (also called a wrecker car) which consisted of the then standard Flyer frame and a crane and cab made by KBN. Those versions that have been observed differ from the catalog cut in that the crane cab is center mounted instead of on one end.
#3045
This eight wheeled enameled car was offered in 1930-1931 for separate sale. The body is Flyer however the crane is a cast iron hoist made by the Arcade Company in Freeport, Ill. Of all of the crane cars offered by any of the American toy manufacturers I think it is the most unique.
#3025
The 8 wheeled crane is an all sheet metal construction. The crane is the same one used on the long base #97 freight station. The crane boom is held at a particular height by a hook fixture whose end slips into small holes drilled in the crane cab roof. The car was made from 1936-38
#416/481
The 3/16" version of the crane was offered in 1939 mounted on an all black #3025 frame. In 1941 the all 3/16" #481 was offered. Typical colors were red frame and roof, yellow cab, black cab base, and green boom. The car also came in a red cab version as well as a black frame, gray boom version.
Jago,
to the thread and Thank You for your kind words.
envfocus,
Thank You too for your kind words. Its nice to know that others do appreciate Flyer and have enjoyed the thread as much as mersenne6 and I do. I always appreciate the photos of your layout and collection. I could see more of them, especially displaying your Flyer Items .
And now for another installment:
American Flyer Passenger Cars IV - Addendum B
Following up once again on mersenne6's entry back on page 15 here are some additional photos of the 3280 series of enamel cars. In 1934 these 9 1/2" cars were nearing the end of their cataloged run. Flyer offered a passenger set called Man-O-War. Here are some pictures of the catalog page from 1934.
The description of the set and the art work both show the set having two 3281 pullman coaches, and a 3282 observation. There was no club car offered with this set. And the decal above the windows is an American Flyer Lines version.
This is the set that I have.
The 3323 Engine and Tender combination
This engine has the red firebox light
You will notice that the condition of these cars in operator quality. I think it was well loved and played with.
The two 3281 Pullman coaches - which if you look closely have the order of decals reversed - so even within the set there are very minor variations. Neither coach has brass steps (which the Greenberg guide lists it as having) while the observation does. I cannot tell if the coaches ever had brass steps.
And the 3282 Observation
It is a nice looking set.
I'd really like to find a set with either "Jeffersonian" or "Golden State" brass plates above the windows.
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
I don't think it can be said enough, so....GREAT THREAD!!!! The experience and information shared here cannot be found anywhere else. Even though I'm a prewar Lionel guy, I've broken down and gotten a few AF pieces since this thread has started.
3/16" Operating Cars
The first remote control operating cars had to wait for the move to New Haven and the production of the 3/16" inch line.
#472
The first car was #472 U.S. Army Automatic Unloading Flatcar which has a yellow ramp mounted on a flatcar. The ramp holds a Tootsietoy armored car which came with either one or two guns. The prewar version of the car has white wheels and the postwar version has black.
The color versions are yellow ramp, red superstructure and black frame or
yellow ramp, red superstructure, red frame.
The car requires a special section of track to work - the same track is used to activate all of the Flyer operating cars. The car was offered in 1940 and 1941.
472 - yellow ramp, red superstructure, red frame, armored car with two guns
# 474
The Automatic Coal Dump Car was offered in 1941. The coal is loaded into a V shaped trough and is dumped when a solenoid in the car is activated and the side of the car opens.
474 with special track section, remote button, instructions and box. Note the hinged side of the car.
View of the hopper body. The hinged car side is at the top.
#492
The mail pickup baggage car was offered in 1941. It came in red (#492R), Pullman Green (#492G) and Tuscan (#492T). It is an automated version of the manual mail pickup accessory/attachment that was offered with the early large Chicago litho baggage cars. Like the others it uses a special track trip but this one has the addition of a mail baggage pole from which to hang the mail bag.
#492G with box track trip and mail bag and mail bag pole
Operating baggage car instructions and inspection slips
American Flyer Passenger Cars IV - Addendum A
Back on page 15 mersenne6 posted some information and pictures of the 8 1/4 inch enameled passenger cars known as the Potomac set. I thought I would add a few pictures of that particular set to augment the information that he posted.
The set was cataloged in 1928 and 1929. Here is the catalog page from the 1928 catalog.
The set was headed up by the 3116, a St. Paul style center cab.
The set contained the 3180 Club Car
With Potomac plates above the window, and Club Car 3180 plate to the right of the baggage door.
Next in line was the 3181 Pullman
with Pullman 3181 plates
And the 3182 Observation
With Observation 3182 plates
And an "American Flyer Lines" plate on the observation platform. These plates frequenlty are missing.
It looks a great deal like its bigger sibling the Pocahontas Wide Gauge set. The Rookie tan and green make a nice combination. As mersenne6 points out this size of car also comes in a blue green enameled body with a darker roof and with Golden State brass plates over the windows.
Northwood Flyer
to the Forum Clayton and to this thread.
I don't know of any wiring diagrams for the bell ringer off hand, someone may know of a source for them. I will have to take a look at mine and see if I can figure something out. I hope you can get your engine ringing down the track, its a fun addition if you can hear it over the sound of the wheels on tubular track.
I saw the mold for the clock on eBay too. It went for a nice tidy sum as I recall. I was amazed that the molds still existed since that clock was made for the 20th anniversary if I remember correctly. I hope he does reproduce the clocks. I would be more than happy to have one.
American Flyer Passenger Cars VI
The remains of the day
#1120
These cars, a passenger and an observation are sort of the poor cousins to the #1107 cars. The lithography is very plain. The cars litho colors are either red, dark green or blue. Markings consist of "American Flyer Lines" above the windows and the number "1120" at either end below the windows. Roof styles are either the earlier squared off style or the later rounded version. Roof colors can be red, black, orange or light blue. They were manufactured from 1923-1929/30.
#1120 with squared off red enameled roof
#1120 with rounded black enameled roof
#518 and #519
These cars are similar in outline and shape to the #515 series of cars discussed in the post on the Hummer and Express passenger car sets. The passenger car has 5 windows instead of 4 and the club car is a simple litho version of the more elaborate enameled club cars described in the posts above. They were manufactured from 1931-1932.
Their one big claim to fame are those that had the additional litho treatment on the roof which consisted of the "Coca-Cola" script and the phrase "Pure as Sunlight"
#519 passenger
#518 Club Car
950 wrote: Northwoods and Dixie - Thank you both! I shared the information with my wife and she was just fascinated as well. No other goodies of the model train variety were found - but this was a welcomed gift. Her and her family decided that I should have it as I still have HO as well as a few Lionel trains around the house. These sets are from my youth and while I really don't have time for the hobby at least one Lionel makes it around the tree each year.This set, after I clean it, and find a few pieces of the correct track for it, will be displayed in my home office. I am just amazed by the construction and will enjoy it for years to come.Thanks again. Ken
Northwoods and Dixie -
Thank you both! I shared the information with my wife and she was just fascinated as well. No other goodies of the model train variety were found - but this was a welcomed gift. Her and her family decided that I should have it as I still have HO as well as a few Lionel trains around the house. These sets are from my youth and while I really don't have time for the hobby at least one Lionel makes it around the tree each year.
This set, after I clean it, and find a few pieces of the correct track for it, will be displayed in my home office. I am just amazed by the construction and will enjoy it for years to come.
Thanks again.
Ken
Ken,
I am glad that the information helped. Its nice that the Union Pacific set will find an honored place in your office. Is your Father in law still living to tell you any stories about it? I like hearing stories that talk about family trains that are still in the family. I hope that it spurs you on to enjoying the hobby in any way you can.
Enjoy.
Dixie RR,
There are several threads on the forum that discuss the relative merits and short comings of each of the types of track systems, so I think if you do a search you will come up with them.
On occasion I have been invited to display my trains at local train shows or other venues. I had been using some very old, and as I found out, damaged tubular track. I had more frustration than fun with it because of electrical problems. I looked at the systems available and decided to invest in Fastrack because of the ease of putting it together, the nice tight connections that the design affords and the good and reliable electrical connections, and I personally liked the way it looked. It fit what I needed for a temporay and easily assembled and disassembled display layout. My home layout is still very much a temporary layout intended to give me a place to watch the trains in action. Since I had started with Fastrack I purchased more of it to use at home as well. I have no switches yet, the layout is just two independent loops so I can't comment on their performance, although I am thinking of adding a passing siding. My Flyer trains run well on it and have no problems to date. So for my purposes Fastrack fit the bill.
Here are some pictures of my Fastrack
You can see how temporary the track really is and why I call my layout the BlueBoard Central Division of American Flyer Lines.
In reading thru previous post I've noted that there are a number of operators.
Is anyone using any of the newer type of track- Fastrack, Atlas, MTH? Switches?
Most problems seem to be the switches. Your input would be greatly appreciated.
(waitin' on the Hurricanes in the Sunny South)
Dixie RR
to the thread 950 and Dixie RR. Its always great to have new folks find their way to the forums and to this American Flyer Thread.
950 - Ken,
I agree with Dixie RR, I'd love to find a set like that in anyone's attic. You have one of the Union Pacific Deluxe Streamlined sets. As Dixie RR pointed out it is most likely the 1730 set from 1937 because it has no whistle. If it had a whistle it would have run on the special 4-rail track that Flyer designed. Union Pacific Sets were marketed by Flyer from 1936-1939 with some variations each year.
Here are a few photos of the 1936 catalog page and information.
Here is a bit more information about the Union Pacific set from Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Pre-War trains by Alan Schuweiler:
"The Union Pacific Railroad was a pioneer in the development of streamlined trains, and toy train manufacturers were quick to copy these colorful new trains that attracted much of that era's media attention. In 1934 Lionel introduced a scale Union Pacific, the No. 751 set. Two years later both Lionel and American Flyer offered models of the City of Denver trains. Both manufacturers's sets featured zinc alloy die-cast power cars and sheet metal cars.
Train units were interconnected with the same system of semi-vestibules used on the Bulington Zephyr. (Just as your picture shows) ....
The 1936 set included a whistle in the leading coach, but it was deleted in later years....
The sides of the cars are finished in vivid Union Pacific yellow, with Union Pacific brown roofs in the early years of production. After 1938 the yellow became more subdued...."
Its a great looking set and it looks to be in nice condition. So are there any other goodies hiding up there in the attic?
The button that you posted a picture of is from the era of Gilbert production; after 1938. It is an accessory activating button, and usually has two Fahnstock clips on the bottom to attach wires. With the decal missing my guess it is just a generic accessory button, and from the look of it I would say it is early Gilbert Flyer production. Many of them in the following years have the name of the accessory on the decal.
What a great way to start a collection. I hope you have other great finds ahead of you.
Thanks for the quick response! Didn't see a whistle on (in) any of the cars, just lights. Any idea on what this is? Thanks again for the help!
Wish I'd found that in my attic! Set is #1730 from 1937. If one of the coaches
has a whistle it would be #1730RW, 1936. The '38 & '39 offerings were 4 car sets.
Dixie RR AF - Absolute Finest
I'm looking for information on this set I just found in my Father in laws attic. (Google got me here) If any additional photos would help, please let me know what they should include. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
American Flyer Passenger Cars V
Wide-Low Profile Cars 6 ½ and 8 ½ inch cars
These cars were introduced in the 1930 Flyer catalog. While cars of this length were already part of the Flyer offerings the height and side stampings were completely different.
6 ½ Inch Cars
The 6 ½ inch cars were offered in both 4 and 8 wheel configurations. The cars have brass window and door inserts and in the case of the observation brass railing and canopy. The first versions were offered with what looks like rubber stamping but is actually an embossing. According to Greenberg this was probably by means of a silver coated tape transfer. The marking consist of "American Flyer Lines" on the letterboard above the windows and either the car number or the letters "A.F.L" in panels below the windows. Often when only "A.F.L" is present the actual car number can be found rubber stamped on the underside of the car. Later versions of these cars were offered with decals in place of the rubber stamps.
4 wheel: Numbering 3140 - Baggage (1932-1933), 3141- Pullman, 3142 - Observation (1930-1932)
Colors - Red, Orange, Green
8 Wheel: Numbering 3150 - Baggage, 3151 - Pullman, 3161 - Observation (1930-1933)
Colors - Green, Violet-Blue, Orange
Violet-blue with stamping
Green with decals
8 ½ Inch cars
Offered from 1930-34, 1936-38 These cars came with a variety of side labels both brass plates and decals.
3171 Pullman
Colors tan and a green roof came with brass plates with either "American Flyer Lines", "The Potomac", or "Golden State" on the letterboard above the windows and brass plates "American Flyer" and "Pullman 3171" on the left and right of the car below the windows.
When the switch was made to decals, a decal with "American Flyer Lines" was on the letterboard above the windows and either two small "American Flyer" or one "American Flyer" one "Pullman" decal below the windows.
The switch also saw new colors - a blue green body and a silver roof - or a red body and roof. When Gilbert took over the line these two paint styles were cataloged as 404 (Pullman) and 405 (Observation).
3172 Observation - similar markings and paint styles as the 3171 Pullman except that in place of plates the word "Pullman" this car had the word "Observation". With the change to decals the car could be found with "Pullman" or "American Flyer" in place of the word "Observation".
3176 -Pullman and 3177 Observation - tan sides with green roof or red sides with darker red roofs - unlighted 1931 and 1937.
Tan and green - brass plates all with "American Flyer"
3178 - Pullman and 3179 Observation - Cadmium plated cars as part of the set pulled by #9915. Plated cars offered in 1935 only. Cars had sheet metal simulated vestibules on the ends. Carts were lighted and observation came with or without a huge red tail light mounted under the canopy.
This style and number can also be found with a body with blue-green paint and a silver roof.
#9915
Cadmium plated Pullman
Cadmium plated Observation with rear light under canopy
American Flyer Passenger Cars IV
Large Passenger Cars: lithoed 9 ½ inch, enameled 9 ½, 8 ½ inch and enameled 11 inch.
Lithographed Passenger 1922-1934
The first of these cars appeared as part of Flyer's 20th Century set in 1922. The cars came with and without lights. The baggage was lithoed with the number 3000 and the passenger cars with the number 3001. The litho treatment was either dark green or a sort of reddish-brown. The dark green passenger cars had the name "Illini" under the windows while the reddish-brown cars were labeled "Columbia"
The first versions were pulled by the No. 3020 and they could only be pulled by this engine because they, and the engine, had an odd harpoon style coupler (interestingly enough the coupler was a close match for the coupler that appeared on KBN trains from the same period). The lights in the early cars were actually a removable wiring kit and the wire was threaded from car to car via notches in the car roof and from the baggage car the wire plugged into a special socket on the top of the No. 3020. Later versions of the cars came equipped with roller pickups.
Illustration of harpoon coupler and electric light connection
The first train sets consisted of #3020, a baggage and either one or two passenger cars. In 1925 Flyer added an observation car. In 1926 the litho changed to a lighter green and the couplers became the familiar hook style which allowed interchange with the rest of the Flyer car fleet.
#3020
Baggage
Passenger
Observation
The set above was purchased from the family of the original owner. The set is curious in that the baggage and the passenger car have through the roof wiring whereas the observation has roller pickups in addition to the later style of trucks. The observation could be a later add on or the set could just be another example of Flyer's using up existing stock. The family did have an early picture of the train on the floor and it is obvious that the cars above are in the picture the problem is there wasn't any date and so I don't know if it was a "first Christmas" picture or one taken at a later date. Either way, the train set is an interesting one and it is a lot of fun to run.
Changes in car construction:
Early version (Left) - roof latched to car with a wire loop release, air tanks on underside, black frame, litho either dark green or reddish brown.
Later version (Right) - roof snaps on over a ridge on the top of the car, no air tanks, frame painted green, litho lighter green only.
Enameled Cars 1928-1935
3180 series - 8 ¼ inch
Car types - 3180 Club Car, 3181 Pullman, 3182 Observation
Common colors - green roof, tan body, brass plate "The Potomac" over window
Less common - blue green body with darker blue green roof, brass plate "Golden State"
over window.
Brass plates under windows were either "Club Car", "Pullman" or "Observation"
3280 series - 9 ½ inch
Car Types - 3280 Club Car, 3281 Pullman, 3282 Observation
Color - Blue green with darker blue green roof - colors in darker and lighter hues
Brass labels of either "Golden State" or "Jeffersonian". Later decal "American Flyer" over windows.
3380 Series 1928-1935 - 11 inch
The 11 inch series 3380, 3381, 3382 is the Ambassador series. The illustrated car is an Ambsssador series car, however, instead of a brass plate with the word "Ambassador" over the windows this car has a brass plate with the word "Jeffersonian" and the brass plates under the windows indicate it is #3281 - this car is just another instance of the vagaries of the American Flyer production line.
1621 and 1622 Deluxe Streamlined Passenger Cars
Flyer cataloged streamlined passenger cars from 1936 through 1940. I posted some pictures of my green set a while ago in a Sunday Photo Fun thread. I will post them here again.
They are sheet metal and came in only two types: coaches
and observation cars.
The observations in all sets have what is called the conventional "boat tail" design.
The observation car in the Hiawatha set has a special design. Those of us who follow the Milwaukee Road know it as a "beaver tail" - one of these days I may be able to edit in a picture of it here.
These were the top of the line O gauge passenger cars. Flyer used the streamlined cars for the first time in 1936 for the Union Pacific streamliner and the Hiawatha set. Over the years of production the cars were pulled by Hudsons, Pacifics and Atlantics. The cars come in yellow(the Union Pacific set), orange (the Hiawatha set), blue, red, green and chrome.
My green three car set is from 1938.
In my photos I show the cars pulled behind a Type XI tender, which is streamined and appeared in 1936-1937. It was used to pulled the Hiawatha cars and painted in appropriate Milwaukee Road colors. I am not sure that it ever pulled any other color sets, but it looks great with them.
RockIsland52 wrote: Hi Northwoods.....you noted that you have a number of inherited pieces. You may have answered this before, so bear with me. It appears from your pictures over the course of this thread that you maintain the original (acquired) condition of your pieces, though I think you have also dabbled in repainting some of those that were deteriorating and could only be saved by restoration.Since there is so much back and forth discussion on the CTT Forum about leave alone vs. touch up vs. complete restoration, I think your opinion might help a lot of folks struggling with this issue.Thanks again to you and mersenne for this thread. I may have no AF/AC Gilbert, but I find this historical pictorial fascinating. The number of views of this thread confirm I am not alone.Jack
Hi Northwoods.....you noted that you have a number of inherited pieces. You may have answered this before, so bear with me. It appears from your pictures over the course of this thread that you maintain the original (acquired) condition of your pieces, though I think you have also dabbled in repainting some of those that were deteriorating and could only be saved by restoration.
Since there is so much back and forth discussion on the CTT Forum about leave alone vs. touch up vs. complete restoration, I think your opinion might help a lot of folks struggling with this issue.
Thanks again to you and mersenne for this thread. I may have no AF/AC Gilbert, but I find this historical pictorial fascinating. The number of views of this thread confirm I am not alone.
Jack
Jack,
I hope you don't mind but I decided to answer your questions in a seperate thread. Its entitled
Personal Guidelines for Collecting - an Opinion
Thanks for the giving me an opportunity to wax eloquent.
Cubster,
All of the references that I have read indicate that Coleman sold American Flyer to (or worked out some kind of a deal with) Gilbert in 1938. Its unlikely that Gilbert had the time to change the product line that year, but by 1939 the production had been moved to New Haven, bringing the Chicago Flyer era to an end. The catalogs indicate that all of the old models of Flyer were gone by 1941. There is a nice concise and I think relatively accurate history of American Flyer trains on Wikipedia. This link should get you there, or just type in American Flyer at the site.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Flyer
The Greenberg Guide by Alan Schuweiler and published by Kalmach (no I didn't get paid for the plug) is also an excellent source for historical information. Both editions are great, but the Second edition has more photos and updated information. It is out of print now, but there are copies available on the secondary market usually going for more than the original selling price.
Edit: The original asking price is $49.95, and I just saw one go on eBay for almost $120.00.
You will have to let me know when those engines that you mention start dropping into your lap; I want to be sitting right next to you for some of the overflow.
Northwoods Flyer wrote:Which technically make them Gilbert production.
Which technically make them Gilbert production.
I did not realize that - thank you, Northwoods Flyer. What year did Gilbert move production out of Chicago? Your 4615-4 is handsome, and the open spoke drivers look great! I'm waiting to see which of the ones I mentioned "drops into my lap" first.
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
4615-4 Locomotive
Chris,
Thanks for posting the great pictures of your engines. I appreciate that you have kept family pieces. My family pieces are the ones that I treasure the most. I agree that Flyer was doing a great job of producing more realistic castings of engines towards the end of Chicago production, before the sale to Gilbert.
Here are some pictures of a 4615-4 that I have in my collection. I don't have either of the examples that you have. It uses the same casting (designated as Type XVI in Greenberg's book) as your 425.
It uses the open spoke wheels that you mention in your post.
It was only produced in 1938, where your two engines were produced in 1939 and 1940 - Which technically make them Gilbert production.
I am missing the appropriate semi-Vanderbilt tender that came with the engine, but then that gives me something to look for in my hunting.
Thanks again for posting, you have some great pieces in your collection. Good luck in your hunting.
How did such an excellent thread get back to third page?! Some photos of my favorites. These run very smoothly at lower voltages than Lionel locomotives, and they are beasts! It's unfortunate AF couldn't hang in there (pre-Gilbert): the later Chicago locomotives run great, looked more prototypical each year, were very well built and were strong pullers. I'm still looking for a 436 Pacific, 434 Atlantic and the 1681 Hudson (a year prior to Lionel's famous 700); the open-spoke drivers on the last two make them especially handsome, IMHO.
Here's a picture of my 425 2-6-4. I love this locomotive: it runs very smoothly, and it's a beast!
And my Dad's 431 0-6-0 (now mine). This was my absolute favorite when I was a kid, I guess because it looked more realistic than Dad's other trains from the 1930s. Dad's trains only came out for a couple months around Christmas, but I have many fond memories attached to this one!
Thanks for lookin' - post some of yours!
3016 Sand Car - Addendum II
I am a firm believer in the old addage that "all good things come to those who wait". I waited long enough and I have recently aquired the orange version of the 6 1/2" sand car. I have heard that it only appeared for one year and only in one set, the 1931 set called The Railroader. It is relatively difficult to find, but not nearly as difficult as its big brother, the 9 1/2" #3207 orange sand car. I posted other versions of the 3016 on page 5 and on page 12 of this thread.
As with most of the items in my collection it is operator quality, and that is exactly what I do with all of my pieces.
The sand car has the same gold rubber stamped "A.F.L.", type VIII trucks and type VIIc couplers as the more common green version.
And a comparison view with its more common green siblings.
Jim,
Thanks for the pictures of these great sets. I am always amazed when I think of the work and detail that went into Flyer's Wide Gauge Line. Its hard to imagine that these trains were intended to be playthings for children. Talk about lucky kids
1200 Series Passenger Cars - Addendum
I have an addition to make to the 1200 series of O gauge passenger cars. It is the number 1306. Obviously the numbering doesn't fall into the 1200 range, but the lithography used on the car matches that used on the 1200 series.
The 1306 is a passenger car
It was made from 1922 to 1926. The lettering on the car is white. It came in blue, a dark blue, green and a dark green, brown and red. This is the brown version with type II trucks. It came with a variety of trucks and in either 4 or 8 wheel versions.
Here are a few more views of the 1306. This is the only version in the collection at this point.
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