Something like this:
Jim
Hi Ken,
When I read your post it brought a smile. As stated, trains interweave our lives and span generations. The 312 is one of my favorites. Is yours a Smoke in Tender (SIT) or Smoke in Boiler (SIB)? Easy to tell, if there is a flexible tube (or a brass tube stub from the tender) between the loco and tender, you have a SIT, which means the smoke unit is in the tender. If not you have a SIB with the smoke unit in the boiler. What is cool about the SIB is when the loco is in neutral, the unit can sit and still produce smoke. Very neat!
Track and switches are fairly easy and cheap to come by, to get your railroad started. If you need help in getting it running there is lots of assistance and information available.
Thanks for sharing your story
It is indeed amazing how toy trains can be woven into the fabric of your life and memories. I am sure that there are many folks who will read your message that will have similar stories. My trains from my childhood were both American Flyer S-gauge and prewar American Flyer O gauge.
It will be very easy to get back into American Flyer. There is a great deal of the vintage S gauge equipment available, although not nearly as much as there is Lionel equipment. With a little effort, some hunting and careful attention to budgeting you could probably replace all of the damaged items from your childhood trains. Or you can go the route of restoring them.
There is also a large amount of new Flyer made by Lionel currently if you don't want to shop the secondary market.
Once Sturgeon-Phish reads your note I am sure he will have some comments. If you can do a search on his entries to the forum you will see his S-gauge empire. He has managed to collect some very nice examples of the items from the era that you are interested in.
I think that you will be pleased at the smiles on your grandchildren's faces when they see the Flyer layout you will create, and my guess is that they will remind you of the smile on your Dad's face as he watched you play with your trains.
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Flyer and Gilbert Friends,
I know this item is not Pre War but I thought some here could point me in the right direction. A forum search did not give me many clues.
While cleaning out my Mom's basement today I found my American Flyer #312 engine (knuckle couplers) from my childhood. I long thought this was gone. Still in the original wrap and in a flooded basement I was surprised to see it free of rust or damage. The cars and accessories stored away from the engine have surface rust but should be OK. The cooler which was used to store track and switches looks as if it had filled with water at some point, and was not a happy sight. My Dad died in 1964, and I last ran these trains before 1969. I did make a track plan copy before I had to dismantle the platform before I got married in 1975. My Mom passed away this past July and I am very Happy she saved these trains for me. Another thing I found with the engine was a worn copy of the 1957 American Flyer catalog, and toward the back in the special car section was a note made by my Dad circling the Crane car, with a check mark and a big OK next to it. He never got to get that car for me, but for some unknown reason when my local train shop went out of business a few years ago the owner brought out that exact car and suggested I buy it for display on my Lionel platform. I didn't know why I wanted it but I bought it. Now I do. Who says parents don't watch out for you after they are gone.
Anyway I am thinking I may want to try and recreate the layout for my Grandsons. Does anyone have any thoughts on how hard it will be to get back into American Flyer after all these years.
Best Regards,
Ken
Updates
With the new format the page index was rendered obsolete. I've updated the index which is now on pp. 21 (note July 2021 - this too is obsolete). I also went back and began the process of updating the pictures which underwent severe shrinkage. Hopefully, sometime this weekend I'll be able to add some new text and pictures to this thread.
Mersenne6
Hi Hank,
to the forum. Its good to have you here. Thanks for posting the information about your collection and about 3/16 American Flyer. It was produced for such a short period of time, and yet it doesn't seem to get the attention that it deserves as the transition it was from Chicago Flyer's O gauge to Gilbert's S gauge. If you have the capability to post some pictures of your equipment it would be great to see.
Thanks for posting and come and visit often.
Hi all, this is a reply to three posts from June 7,8,9 of 2008.
The posts were Q&A about Lionel and AF competition to go scale and I agree with the answers given. I would stress that Lionel 700E Hudson and the B6 switcher were absolute scale detailed 1:48 engines with triple action. The AF decision to go to 3/16th in O allowed them to produce scale length engines without the 72" diameter special track required of the scale Lionel items.
In my collection are the Northern, Pacific and Atlantic in working condition by AF. In addition I have the reproduction Lionel Gold Hudson Mellinium and the reproduction K-Line B-6. Both are, as were the origionals, by Lionel, higher detailed than the AF. But, the origional Lionels were equal to two weeks wages in price and the AF's were about one weeks wages. What is so great about AF? The lack of compromise as to length and the ability to operate on 040 track. This also shows in the passenger cars. No need for compression of length. An example of the difference is to see the Pacific style engines by Lionel and AF. Although Lionel is brutish in appearance, it lacks the correct front wheels and is 2-6-2. The AF K5 Pacific is like a thoroughbred - long and lean. Lionel in the late 30's, early & late 40's, & 50's did not have triple action on the Atlantics or Pacifics. AF had triple action. AF had triple action on the Northern, Hudson, Atlantic, and 0-8-0 yard goat.
Best,
Hank
Hi all,
This is my first post on Trains.com. I am 66yrs of age and was given two AF 3/16th O sets for my first Christmas in 1942. I currently have in 3/16th O the Atlantic(4-4-2), Pacific(4-6-2), & Northern (4-8-4) engines. In addition in 3/16th O I have the diecast freight cars (box, cattle, coal, tank, gondola, & caboose. I'm looking for the crane car. I have the 3/16th O diecast passenger cars and combine car. I have the tinplate freight cars with the exception of the crane car and the flatcar with girder load. I also have the 3/16th O tinplate passenger cars in Pennsy red and the mail car in Pullman green. I have an S guage #342 yard goat (0-8-0) that I hope to convert to O and the S guage Pullman observation that I hope to convert to O.
X2000 asked some months ago, about a prewar 3-rail set believed to be late thirties. I do not know if it is a set but I believe the items are 3/16th O guage. If so, his description matches the #565 Atlantic style (4-4-2) diecast engine with sheet metal tender that has a single wire connecting the tender's 3rd rail pickups to the engine. The boxcar seems to be a #478 which is tinplate painted white on the sides with red painted roof and doors. The #482 flatcar with log load is tinplate and came with apple green paint or in black paint. The lighted caboose #484 is tinplate with red paint roof and sides and white painted ladder/railing front and back. All of these are nickle journals and latch-and-pin couplers.
Hope to contribute more about these in the future.
You might want to hold off and read Bob Keller's post from yesterday afternoon re archives and old photos. Believe he said a lot of stuff will be uploaded over the weekend including old pictures..
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
I went over to York yesterday in the hopes of adding something to the collection - no joy - not much in the way of prewar Flyer - at least not what I was looking for. So except for the cost of gas and tolls I brought back everything I took over there....oh well, maybe next time
Jago Thats a real nice yellow 1218 when you find one like this do you a... leave the paintwork as found b...give it a clean and polish or c...go the whole hog and go for a repaint just curious as to your approach to these great trains
Thats a real nice yellow 1218 when you find one like this do you
a... leave the paintwork as found
b...give it a clean and polish or
c...go the whole hog and go for a repaint
just curious as to your approach to these great trains
Hi Jago,
In answer to your question I would have to say "It depends". Somewhere on the forum I have a post about my philosphy of collecting. I'm not sure how to link it here yet. I'm still getting used to the changes. Briefly, I tend to buy the best conditon item that I can afford. That gives me lots of variation in the condition that I collect, and I have on occasion upgraded to a better condition item, and then the theory is to sell off the lesser graded item. So far I have not sold many items off just because I have been working at filling in the missing items in my collection.
The basic standard is to buy items in original conditon.
I do the basic amount of clean up - I appreciate the wear the items have. Those dents and chips represent a lot of fun experienced by the string of owners.
I don't do any repaint or touch up myself - mainly because I haven't tried it yet. And I don't buy anything anymore with the intention of restoring it. That might be an aspect I will attempt when I reach retirement
While I don't buy many repaints, I do like a few; mostly items painted in colors that American Flyer never tried, especially if I think they look good.
If an Item is uncommon or unlikely to come up often I might buy it if is in relatively rough condition just to have it in my collection. But I will keep an eye out for a better example. And if I miss an example I usually just keep looking. These are mass produced toys, there are hundreds and thousands of them still hiding in attics and closets. Another example will come along.
I think this might have been a bit long than you had expected, but I thought I would be thorough.
Chris/Cubster,
It appears that we have lost the ability to change the color and size of fonts in the upgrade. I will miss those as I used them a lot to help organize the thread. (well its not that big of a rant - really)
In any case, I like the steeple cabs too. Your comment motivated me to do a quick count of how many I have and I was surprised to find that I have a total of seven steeple cabs with only one duplicate of a 1218. You could almost say the little guys are addictive. I wish you luck on finding a 1218 to restore. From my observations, particularly on eBay they are easily available.
Northwoods Flyer, the 3110 is one of my personal favorites. A very sturdy little thing that just goes and goes with minimal maintenance. They're pretty zippy as well! I have a nice 3110 in green/red like yours, though the wheels have been replaced. I'm particularly fond of the little American Flyer 0 gauge electrics for some reason. I'm still looking for a really beat-up 1218 to restore, and a 1096 in good shape.
As always, thank you for the posts and the education!
Steeple Cab - 3110 Addendum
The Greenberg Guide to American Flyer O Gauge lists two variations to the common 3110. One is a model that is identical to the green version of the 3110 offered from 1928-1929 and again in 1931 except that it is black. While I don't have very many repaints in my collection I saw this one and decided I would add it, until I can find an authentic version.
Some one did a very nice job of turning this into an example of this uncommon engine just about as it would have looked when it came from Halsted steet.
It is very similar to an authentic green version
There are a few details that are not quite right for it to be an original. If you compare the frames you will see that the repaint uses an example from a different number steeple cab because it doesn't have brass journals.
And when I took it apart to examine it more closely I can see that there are still remains of its original green color on the inside of the body. I suppose I could pretend its a factory repaint, but it is in much too nice condition to be original. It is a nice looking engine in any case.
mersenne6,
You are certainly offering some challenges lately. I only have one item in my collection to add some pictures to your post. It is the 8 wheel version of the 311267 hopper, with the black enameled frame.
And a few closeups of the lithography
The Other Freight Cars III
Hopper Cars
The American Flyer hopper fleet is as anemic as the cattle car fleet - just one car from Chicago and three cars from Gilbert.
#311267
This uncataloged car was made from 1936-1937. According to Greenberg it was listed as #1126 in the 1936 Dealers' Price List and I've seen the car in its cardboard sleeve (no boxes for these cars) with the number "1126" rubber stamped on the outside. The car can be found in a 4 or an 8 wheel version with either a black or a red enameled frame.
#311267 - 4 Wheel
#486 - Sheet Metal
This 3/16" hopper was the non-operating cousin of #474 discussed on pp. 16 It was offered in 1940 and 1941. It came with a black frame, yellow body, hatches on the bottom that could be manually opened, and a brake wheel on one end. Its decal treatment is either a mix of "American Flyer Lines" and "486" or just "American Flyer Lines".
#486 - mixed decal treatment
#474 - Operating Hopper - see also post above
#508 - 3/16" Die Cast
Offered in Gray and lettered for the Virginian Railway. Listed from 1939-1941. Has four manually operating hatches on the bottom. This car was also offered in kit form - kit number K508.
That mustard yellow 1218 is pretty nice.
Carl T.
PhilaKnight,
to the thread. That is a great picture of Flyer's 3020. Its one of the electric outline locomotives that I still have on my "to get" list.
great post as usual. I have to admit that I don't have examples from my collection to add this time.
However I do have some pictures of a new addition to the roster of steeple cabs here at the Blue Board Central Division of American Flyer Lines. A yellow version of the 1218 has arrived. I edited a few pictures of it into the posting on steeple cab engines back on page 9.
Except for the color it looks just like its siblings.
It has the identical stampings as well.
Flyer made good use of the body style and with just a few additions or subtractions, and different colors of paint managed to produce a number of variations. Everytime I read through the listing in Greenberg I wonder if I will ever run across some of the other colors like maroon, blue, green and red; all which are stamped with 1218. I still have some hunting to do.
And a parting shot of the 1218 travelling the rails.
Happy Hunting,
The Other Freight Cars II
The early boxcars
#243
The G.Sommers catalog for September 1910 was the first to show Flyer freight cars. This catalog illustrated only a tank car and a boxcar. The first boxcar was listed as being 5 inches long. The car had the same Type II frame as found on the 4 window passenger cars of the period. The door and all other markings are just litho.
Boxcar from 1910
M1110
In 1914 the Flyer catalog illustrations showed a new style of boxcar. It was listed as being 5 ½ inches long and was catalogued as M1110. This car was the first AF boxcar to carry the herald of a real railroad - Illinois Central.
The boxcar can be found with no doors, a brown five panel door, or a lithoed red door with black handles as above. The door on this car is a factory error. The metal was fed into the cutting press and instead of cutting along the line it was offset and put the cut line about a quarter of the way up from the bottom.
Greenberg states that the car appears to be German made or a copy of a German car. If we set the M1110 next to a Fandor and a Bing car of the same period, the resemblance to the Bing car is easy to see.
A closer look at the roof indicates an almost perfect match with respect to roof line and end cuts of the sheet metal roof between AF and Bing.
1110A
In 1917 the catalog illustration was that of a Baltimore and Ohio boxcar as well as a caboose. The caboose was a very odd affair - just the B&O boxcar without a cutout for the doors and a cupola on the roof. The boxcar can be found with yellow and red painted doors as well as either an orange or yellow five panel door.
B&O Boxcar with orange 5 panel door
Here's one of my favorites. I also have it in brown.
Thanks guys. With the index you are developing I am now spending even more time in this thread.
American Flyer Passenger Cars IV - Addendum C
I thought I would add some comparison photos of the passenger cars in this category just so that folks can see the difference in the sizes. I have used the Pullman coaches from each size
This is the 11 inch coach from the Ambassador set
And the 9 1/2 inch coach from the Man of War set,
And the 8 1/4 inch coach from the Potomac set,
And a 6 1/2 incho coach from the Frontenac set - I don't think we have covered this size of passenger cars yet.
It is amazing to see the variety in the sizes that Flyer produced in Narrow Gauge.
And just for good measure lets throw in a 14 inch coach from the Wide Gauge Pocohantas set.
I like to see the variety and the similarities between the cars. The designers at Flyer always seemed to playing with variations on a theme.
This is a really nice set:
Methinks this would be a nice set for Lionel to reproduce.
- Clint
Cubster/Chris,
I don't own an example of the #416 wrecker but here is a photo of page 184 in Greenberg's Guide to American Flyer Prewar O Gauge by Alan Schuweiler. It follows the description that mersenne6 gave. It is a nice transition piece from 1939. Gilbert's 3/16 version uses the same crane but the early versions have an open die cast frame.
Good luck in collecting the rest of the 400 series cars. Which ones do you have already?
Mersenne6,
Thanks for putting some order to the random postings in the thread. I'm going to print out your index so that I can find things more easily too.
Improved and revised index now on pp. 27
List is obsolete - deleted
Cubster
416 is a cross between 3025 and 481. It has the base and frame of 3025 (but painted all black) and the cab crane assembly of 481.
Northwoods - thanks for pictures of the real thing. I've never had the chance to photograph one. Over the next few weeks I'll be working my way through the freights and I'm going to have to put in catalog cuts for more than one of them. I was hoping you'd have a picture of 3025 and, of course, there was the always optimistic thought that you might have one of the #420's too.
mersenne6
More fascinating posts: thank you, gentlemen!
I'm particularly grateful for the wrecker car posts. I have my father's AF 408-412 freight cars. I'd very much like to see a picture of the 416 wrecker car. Was it similar to the 3025 but with link couplers?
I hope to acquire a 416 wrecker and the 1100 series wrecker: those are the only AF freight car series I'm collecting (at this time, and to help preserve my financial sanity).
Thanks!
mersenne6 wrote: The Other Freight Cars I Crane Cars #3025 The 8 wheeled crane is an all sheet metal construction. The crane is the same one used on the long base #97 freight station. The crane boom is held at a particular height by a hook fixture whose end slips into small holes drilled in the crane cab roof. The car was made from 1936-38
The Other Freight Cars I
Crane Cars
#3025
The 8 wheeled crane is an all sheet metal construction. The crane is the same one used on the long base #97 freight station. The crane boom is held at a particular height by a hook fixture whose end slips into small holes drilled in the crane cab roof. The car was made from 1936-38
Great post on the Crane/Wrecker cars.
I thought I would add a few pictures of the 3025. Even though it was offered for only a few years there were several variations.
This is a version from the years 1936-1937, with type VIIIb trucks.
And this is the version from 1938, with the type XII trucks and the Type X or curly cue couplers.
Apparenly there were two types of sheet metal bodies used for these cranes, the main difference being the early models had 5 windows punched per side and later versions had only 4 windows. I'm still looking for a 5 window version.
The two versions also have different shades of green for the subframe
This is a view of the metal piece that raises and lowers the boom and hook by placing it in the holes on the roof of the cab. Lionel's version is definitely more interesting with its actual ability to crank the hook up and down.
However the 3025 can also swivel on its base.
There were also two designs of decal used on the crane body and two different placements. Some years it appeared above the windows and other years below.
One version of the decal has black lettering on a white background.
And the other version has gold lettering on a black background. This decal is actually from the crane body mounted on the #97 freight station.
So once again even within a single type of car there can be a multiplicity of variations.
Happy hunting.
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