Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

[Cubster]

Questions answered elsewhere.

[Northwoods Flyer]

Mersenne6,

What a great story on the American Flyer Backyard Railroad contests.  I enjoyed your research.  Its amazing what you can discover with the internet.  The access to information is incredible.  Are you familiar with the old publication of the American Flyer Collectors Club called The Collector?  It was published quarterly for 21 years by Frank Hare (who died last October). It ceased publication in 1998 but copies of it ocassionally show up at shows and on Ebay.  It had several articles about the contests and at least one was written by someone who had actually participated in it.

Type II tender  -  3196

Not only does the internet provide access to information, as we all know it also provides access to train items that many of us would only see in photos and articles.  In the entries above on my 3195X  engine I mentioned that it did not have a tender with it.  Thanks to Ebay that situation has been rectified.  Earlier this week the postman delivered this example of a 3196.

 

The tender comes with either "American Flyer" plates or "Hancock plates"

 

 

The 3196 was cataloged in 1930-1931 and the unique feature is that the coal pile is actually cast metal not just formed sheet metal as appears in many of Flyer's tenders.  It was even referred to as a heavy tender in the catalog descriptions.

 

 

 

Doing the research on Flyer items is one of the things that I enjoy about the hobby.  One of the other things I enjoy is reuniting items that were originally cataloged or sold together. I've managed to assemble several sets this way.  So now my lonely 3195X (with 3185 plate) now has a companion.

 

 

 

Stay tuned there is more to come.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

Backyard Railways and the Curious Case of Horace Wade   

In 1921 American Flyer tried a new tactic to increase train sales at times other than the Christmas season.  In April 1921 Flyer introduced the idea of outdoor backyard railroads and offered non-rusting track that could be used for such an effort.  During the summers of 1921-1925 they

 

ran ads in various boy’s magazines which promoted a contest for the best backyard railroad.  Pamphlets announcing the contest were available from American Flyer and from their dealers

 

 

To enter you had to submit a photo of your backyard layout and the name of your dealer.  Free engineer hats were given to all who entered.  The first place winner was given a $25 cash prize and there were two  second place prizes of $10 each.  The contest did not generate the kind of sales Flyer hoped for and it ended in 1925.

    In October 1989 the TCA journal The Train Collectors Quarterly printed an article about Ned Norman the 1923 winner of this contest.  The article was illustrated with pictures of Mr. Norman astride his then (as in 1989 then) current 1 ½” live steamer as well as a couple of pictures of his outdoor layout which had been taken in 1923. 

 Ned's Layout as shown in the TCA article

 

 

 

The article also had a photocopy of the letter from W.O. Coleman to Ned which announced his winning of the 1923 contest.  The text of the letter is as follows:

 Dear Ned:

      Here it is, the check your photograph won in our Grand Prize Contest.

    We had hundreds of photographs from all over the country including Canada and Porto Rico (sic) and from all the photographs you won first prize.

  We expect to have a Photograph Contest again next year and will be glad to send you details of it early in the year.

   I will appreciate it very much if you will let us know if the check arrived safely.

   With best wishes for a Merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year.  

At the time of the 1923 contest Ned lived in West Englewood, N.J. One of the photos in the TCA article shows Ned with a friend standing in front of his “Backyard Railroad”.  The text referring to the picture states “ In Photo 3 Ned, in Boy Scout uniform, takes a break from construction with George Webster, who was about nine or ten at the time…Ned believes that young Webster grew up to become an executive with Goodyear Tire and Rubber Co.  The text also mentioned a third boy whom Ned said had helped with the construction and who came over to run trains – his name, according to the TCA article was Horace Wade.

 

 The article stated “Ned has no picture of him and has no knowledge of him after moving from West Englewood.”

 

…and now it gets interesting. 

 

Below is a picture of the front page of the pamphlet announcing the 1923 contest.

 

  The bulk of the pamphlet consists of a reprint of a story about the 1922 winner, Paul Baurle, who lived at 1225 Webster Avenue in Chicago, Illinois.  The article was reprinted from “Lone Scout” magazine.  The young man framed by the text is the author of the reprinted Lone Scout article.  He is also the person who interviewed Paul Baurle for the article and his name is Horace A. Wade.

   The text below the photo of Horace Wade states:

   “Of course, you know Horace Wade!  He’s the chap who cut his teeth on a dictionary, knew grammar by heart when 7 years old and wrote a famous novel, “In the Shadow of Great Peril,” when he was 11 years old. He is 13 years old now and has made his mark as a newspaper reporter and magazine writer. He was formerly an active Lone Scout. You’ll like this story because it is a story about a boy who did something in a big way.”

 I had the pamphlet in my possession back in 1989 when the TCA article came out and I sent photocopies of it to both TCA and the author along with some thoughts about the two Horace Wades – there was no reply and I let the matter drop. A few weeks ago I was rummaging through my files and I found the folder with the TCA magazine and the pamphlet. 

 One thing not available in 1989 was Google search. Since I was still curious about Horace Wade I sat down last night and put him through the search engine – I found a few things:

  Name: Horace Atkisson Wade – born 1908

Reporter for the Chicago Evening American – (described as “the worlds youngest reporter”) - 1924

Sometime between 1924 and 1930 moved to Los Angeles

 Published Books:

In the Shadow of Great Peril - 1920

To Hell with Hollywood - 1931

Tales of the Turf – 1956

The Greatest Gambling Stories Ever Told -1973

A Boy’s Life 1986

 It appears Wade was part of what sounds like a 1920’s fad – child authors.  According to the John Hopkins Project Muse most of these individuals faded away but Horace was one of three who actually wrote as an adult. In 1925 he wrote G.B. Shaw asking him to write a preface for his latest novel – Shaw was very firm in his refusal and it is unclear if the book is the Hollywood book above or another “Tracking Whiskey Wolves” which, according to my search, was completed around 1925 but apparently was never accepted for publication. It appears in later life he became a publicity man for the horse racing industry (hence the book Tales of the Turf).

 My questions then and now are pretty much the same- was this just one of those interesting coincidences – a friend and an author of the Flyer pamphlet who happened to have the same name or is this a case of the memory playing its usual tricks over time and transposing the name of a forgotten friend with a name on a pamphlet? 

 Based on the Google search I’m sure Horace the author and Horace the third boy in New Jersey is not the same individual. Horace, the author, was living in Chicago in 1923 and working for a Chicago newspaper. What I do wonder about is the possibility that American Flyer might have retained Horace Wade, the author, to write copy about the 1923-1925 winners.  If they did his copy would most likely have been used for the pamphlets announcing the 1924 and 1925 contests and there might be a chance that Ned Norman, or at least a picture of his layout, was featured in these later announcements.  On the other hand, by 1923 Flyer might have been having second thoughts about the contest in which case they could have just as easily used the 1923 pamphlet with updated dates of contest entry.

  When I wrote the above paragraph the reference - American Flyer Digital Archive - was something in the future.  Now that the future has arrived we have an addendum:  The pamphlet for the 1924 contest had no writeup about any of the previous contest winners. The pamphlet consists of an announcement of the contest along with the rules on one page and pictures of some previous winner's layouts as well as some previous entries which did not win and a note to dealers to feature the ad in their store window.  There is no pamphlet for 1925.

Pamphlet 1924 American Flyer Contest Announcement

Below are photos of the backyard railroads featured in the 1923 pamphlet.  The first is Paul Baurle’s.  The other one, on the last page of the pamphlet, is unidentified but it is probably safe to assume it was either an earlier winner or perhaps a runner up in the 1922 contest.  What is interesting about all of the layout pictures is that they all have one prominent feature in common – Flyer’s then top of the line O gauge set the 20^th Century headed by #3020.

 

 Baurle's Backyard Railroad

 

 

 

Unidentified Backyard Railroad

 

 

 

 

 

#3020

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Other Freight Cars  VII

Searchlight and Floodlight Cars

These cars were cataloged by American Flyer in 1938 and 1939.  They are the same car, the only difference being the name and numbers assigned to them and the fact that they changed couplers.

 1938 

The car is referred to as a Searchlight car.

This the 3213. It has sheet metal (curly cue) couplers

 

 

The light housing swivels and tilts.  It has great play value and it looks wonderful traveling around the layout in the dark.

 

 

The light is operated by a switch on the deck.

 

 

1939

 

The car is now referred to as a Floodlight Car.  With the new numbering system put in place when Gilbert takes over American Flyer the car is now given the number  415.

 

 

It is virtually identical except for the couplers, which on the 415 are now link and pin.

 

 

 

By 1940 all of the old styles of cars produced in Chicago under Coleman are gone and the new designs by Gilbert begin their run.

 

The housings holding the lights in place are easily damaged and they lose their tension and the lights have a tendency to pop out.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby.

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

I've done some research since posting the above entry.  I  gained some information from a similar engine that was listed on Ebay.  The Ebay listing showed in its photo where an additional number had been rubberstamped on the underside of the engine shell.  I took a closer look at my engine, and low and behold the same rubber stamping was present on my engine; it was just too faint for me to notice it at first.

Here is the engine with its unusual 3185 brass tag

 

With a cursory look at the underside I had missed the rubber stamping.

 

 

But with the clues from the pictures on Ebay I did a bit more investigation and discovered......

 

 

What I have is a 3195 X that has 3185 brass plates.  Mersenne6 mentioned that some 3195's come with 3185 plates. Flyer has been known to use up old materials that then had on hand.  I wonder if they used left over 3185 plates since the box cab electric with that number was cataloged about the same time.

 

So with some hunting, and help from Ebay, I know a bit more about my engine.  I am still looking for a 3196 tender to go with the engine and I hope to discover what cars came with this engine.  Once I get the tender I plan to match up with my Iron Horse passenger cars from 1930.

 

Enjoying The World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

AFI

American Flyer Investigations

I have another engine that needs identifying.  Since Mersenne6 did such a great job in identifying and giving information on my 3195 I thought I might try this one.  Back on page 11 he gave a wealth of information on the 3195 and its variation.  He mentioned that the Type III engine is sometimes found with 3185 plates.  The 3185 is well known as a medium sized box cab engine.  I'm wondering what anyone might know about the 3185 steamer.

Here are some photos.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The person I purchased it from said that he had replaced the side rods with reproductions.  Would this have used a 3196 Type III tender?  It didn't come to me with a tender, and I don't have a Type III tender in my collection yet.  I have a set of orange (or as Flyer called them chrome yellow enamel) passenger cars from the Iron Horse set, that has no Horse at this time, that I would like to match up with this engine.  Any idea what the consist was that came with this engine?

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Other Freight Cars VI

Dump Cars

I think that the dump cars that American Flyer made have some of the best play value of any of the cars that they produced.  I can remember as a child when I played with the one that we had. I filled it with all kinds of small toys and other objects to haul.  I never tired of opening and closing and locking the simple mechanism that held the sides of the car together.

Let me quote from the Greenburg Guide by Schuweiler:

"American Flyer made dump cars in 6 1/2- and 9 1/2-inch lengths.  The 6 1/2 inch version came with both four and eight wheels and was basically a shorter version of the 9 1/2-inch cars.  Although the 1939 variations had new numbers, the main difference was the type of coupler."

Dump cars were cataloged from 1934 to1939.  I'll use the identification system that the Greenburg guide uses.

6 1/2 Inch Cars

3009  1934-1935

This is the 4 wheel version of the car.  I don't have a picture of this variation (Do you have a picture of it Mersenne6?).

3019  (A)

1934-1935

This version is not listed in Greenburg but only varies in the color

 

3019  (B)

1938

 

230

1939

 

9 1/2 - Inch Cars

 

3219  (A)

 

 

3219  (B)

 

1938

 

 

409

 

1939    This is the car that I played with as a child.  It still has its original box, but it has lost the cast link from both couplers.

 

 

This is a comparison of both sizes from 1938 - both with curly cue couplers - and how they look when the dump sides are lowered. 

 

 

one side lowered 

 

 

both sides lowered 

 

 

And here is end view of the same process, showing the clamping mechanism that holds the sides up. 

 

 

 

 

I can bet a lot of mothers had their sewing baskets raided by boys looking for a load to carry in their car.  Spools of thread would have made a great representation of telegraph or telephone wire.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

The Other Freight Cars V   -  Addendum B

The Caboose   9.5 inch version

Back on page 24 Mersenne6 posted information on The variations of cabooses that Flyer produced.

"3201/3211/411 - 9 ½ inch cars  

  All of these cars share the same stampings.  The differences are trucks, couplers, and markings which can be either brass plates, decals, or rubber stampings.  This caboose is usually found lighted.  

 3201 – 1932 - non-illuminated, red body and darker red roof and/or cupola.

3211 – 1928-1938 – illuminated, red body and darker red roof, also red body and matching red roof.

411 - 1939-1940  - illuminated, red body and roof."

He posted some pictures along with the information.  Here are a few more examples of the 9.5 inch enameled caboose.  I have identified them using the system in the Greenberg Guide to American Flyer Prewar O gauge by Alan Schuweiler

3211 B    (unlighted)

 

3211 G     (lighted)

 

 

notice the interesting use of the Fahnstock clips  

 

3211  with type VIII truck - not listed in Greenberg  an unlighted version

 

 

3211 I  lighted version   in all other ways identical to the variation above

 

 

 

3211 N  (illuminated)

 

 

 

411 A      (illuminated)  This is the late version of the 3211 cataloged in 1939-1940 after Gilbert took over and changed the numbers on most items.  It should have a link and pin coupler.  The pin is still there but my father used one of the conversion kits that Gilbert marketed in the 1950's to convert link and pin to a knuckle coupler.  These kits were marketed to convert the link and pin S gauge cars to knuckle couplers when Gilbert changed all couplers in the S gauge line.

 

 

I actually have two 411s , neither of which is in very good shape.  I'd like to upgrade these one day.

 

 

I have one other 9.5 inch caboose that has an interesting alteration to the trucks.  Someone took a tin snips to the Type VIII trucks to make them look more prototypical.

 

 

Here is a comparison of the standard Type VIII and the altered Type VIII

 

 

 

Once again Flyer produced enough variations in this car to have a collection dedicated only to the once ubiquitous caboose.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

[mersenne6]

 

   When you say "this engine" which engine are you referring to?  The engine in the post just prior to yours doesn't have cast side or main rods. 

 Eric Trickel makes reproduction side rod assemblies for most of the prewar Flyer steam engines.  His e-mail is [e-mail]

 

[IMCPL]

Hello, Does anyone know where I can get a new pushrod for this engine? Mine are cast and one of the long rods is broken off. I figured I'd better get a complete set of the stamped ones so both sides will match. Also, I need the brass screw that holds the valve gear to the engine shell.

 Thanks,

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Hi bsm699,

Thanks for posting the great pictures of your Christmas layout.  You have some nice pieces in your collection, and they look great under the tree.  I particularly like your 3315 bell ringing steam engine.  Here are a few shots of mine.

 

 

 

I think that a big part of its charm is the sound of the bell ringing as it goes down the track.  Does your ringer mechanism work?

 

 

 

Have you purchased all of your Flyer pieces or are they family pieces?  Please post more pictures, and thanks again.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby,

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[bsm699]

 

 

Here are some photos of my Christmas garden (recently dismantled).  It's a mixture of equipment, but mostly flyer.  Hope you enjoy.

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

bsm699,

to the forum and to this thread.  Thanks for the kind words.  Its nice to know that people are still enjoying our postings   I look forward to contributions by others as well.  As you have probably read folks have raised some interesting questions and contributed some wonderful stories about their trains as well as pictures of their Pre War Flyer trains.  Its good to have you aboard.  I hope you enjoy the ride.

Mersenne6,

Thank you for the great post on the 3190. Your knowleged and scholarship always amazes me.  

 But do you think you could narrow it down to the week that it might have been produced?    I feel pretty comfortable now that the engine is original and direct from the factory.  Its a good thing I like variations since Flyer provides plenty of them.  My suspicion is that there are still more to be discovered.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[bsm699]

This has to be one of the best toy train threads going.  It has even prompted me to register so I can share my American Flyer pics and post.  I'll be posting some pic when I get them on a photo sharing site.  Thanks again for the informative post and wonderful photos.

[mersenne6]

 

  American Flyer Investigations it is !

   The earliest version of the #3190 which would probably have been January 1931 looked like picture #1  A  2-4-0 wheel arrangement, Remote Control capability, headlight hood, brass bell screw mounted to boiler, die cast main and connecting rods and sheet metal piston rods, blue green stripe, gold painted boiler front steps, gold paint on smoke stack top, and heavy japanned black enamel - very thick and very shiney.

 

Picture 1 - #3190 early version - note the screw mounted sheet metal cover for the brushes

 

 

  Sometime, probably a few months into the 1931 production, the weakness of the die cast main rod became apparent (or maybe they just decided it was too expensive or who knows).   In any event same set up as before except for the stamped sheet metal main rod.  The diecast connecting rod has been dropped to allow a better view of the sheet metal rod.

 

 

Picture 2 - #3190 version with mix of sheet metal and die cast side rods

 

 

    Sometime - perhaps at the very beginning of 1931 - Flyer dropped the #3198 and replaced it with an 0-4-0 version of #3190.  This was rubber stamped #3180 on the underside and came in three different versions #3180, #3180 M/C, and #3180 R/C.  M/C = manual reverse and R/C = remote control reverse.  It should be noted that #3190 can be found with similar markings - most are rubber stamped #3190 R/C since it was supposed to have a remote control reverse.  With the #3180 they dropped the main rod and just provided valve gear that consisted of the connecting rod and the piston rods - all stamped sheet metal.  The side paint trim and brass details were identical to the #3190, however, the boiler front steps were not painted gold - Picture 3.

 

 

Picture 3 - #3180 - no reverse unit simplified all sheet metal side rods

 

 

  The typical motor for some portion of 1931 is as illustrated in Picture 4 - note it is not the same motor as you have - I don't think this is a big deal and you will see why in a moment.

 

 

 Picture 4 - underside of #3190 R/C

 

   At some point in 1931 - probably towards the end of the year - Flyer seems to have gone into salvage mode as far as the #3190 is concerned because the number of variations of fittings, motors, trim and tenders is out of all proportion to the time the engine was cataloged.  I would guess the nightmare economic conditions (the Great Depression had been underway since 1929 and 1932 was rock bottom) were the reason.  As a result, you can find the #3190 with more than one type of electric motor.  I've never seen one with the type you have but the way it is mounted and the way the sheet metal cover for the brushes has obviously never been put on the engine suggests it is correct.

 

  The engine in Picture 5 is one of four of its type I've seen over the years.  The valve gear and the motor are those that were used in the 1932 die cast steamer.  In order to accomodate the manual reverse lever on the side the #3190 casting was milled out for clearance and because of this it too does not have a sheet metal cover for the brushes.  This particular version has a gold strip on the side and the smokestack rim and the steam dome are painted gold.  No other trim or markings.  This one has a paint filled, tapped hole in the boiler front for the headlight hood but none was ever installed. 

 

  I'd say your engine was made slightly earlier than the one in picture 5.  You have a different motor, your valve gear is all sheet metal - it looks like they ran out of single brass bells but still had headlight hoods with the bell bracket from the #3195 so they screwed it in place, shipped it, and umpteen years later it found a place in your collection.

 

 

 

Picture 5 - last of the line

 

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Cubster/Chris,

Here are a few pictures of the split rivet fasteners on the steeple cabs.

 

 

 

 

I am fairly certain that not many of them survived repeated bending and rebending. 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

[Northwoods Flyer]

Hi Mersenne6,

I think we have the beginings of our own police drama 

 AFI  -  American Flyer Investigations  

Here are a few detail shots of my 3190.   In answer to your questions. There is no brush plate cover  and with the way the motor sits there would be no room for it.   The holes are there, but not paint filled and the hole for the bell is there but not paint filled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would be interested in your opinion on this engine.  I have had some questions about it since I bought it.  There are certain things that "feel" right :  the presence of the green running board stripe and accents, the gold accents on the steps and the smoke stack.  The feel of the paint is as if it is fresh from the box on Christmas morning new.  The not quite right feel is the great condition of the paint - although it is thick and heavy like old paint, and that chipping around the bell support, although you would think that if this was a repaint or "marriage" of parts the person would have taken the time to touch it up.

 

So Mersenne6 what do the clues lead you to conlude?   

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

 

 

 

[mersenne6]

  Northwoods - a question or two about your #3190 - I see it doesn't have the sheet metal stamping on the side to cover the brush plate and I also notice it has a headlight cover with a bell and bracket.  From the looks of the picture the plates look like they couldn't be covered with the sheet metal stamping - are the screw holes for the plate paint filled?  Also is the screw hole behind the smokestack either absent or paint filled?  This is where the bell was normally mounted - you can see both of these items in the pictures of #3190 on pp. 11.

                                        Mersenne6

[Northwoods Flyer]

 

Hi IMCPL ,

 

           to the forum and to this thread.

Just to add to Mersenne6's confirmation of the function of those brass flag holders, here are some pictures of a 3190

 

 

And some  close ups of the flag holders

 

 

 

And here is what they look like with flags

 

 

These are actually reproduction flags.

 

 

They make a nice addition to the 3190 as it cruises down the track.

 

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

 

Northwoods Flyer

 

 

[mersenne6]

 

  They are flag holders but Flyer never sold those engines with flags. However it wouldn't surprise me to learn that some kids back in 1930-31 got the flags as an add-on and put them in the holders. Flyers version of the flags did come with some of the standard gauge electrics - it is sheet metal and is in the form of a pennant.  Reproductions of the flags are available so you could add them to your engine if you wanted to.

[IMCPL]

 I have a Pre-War flyer engine # 3190.  Does anyone know what goes in the two small round "holders" on each side in the front?  I think it may be for flags, but I have not been able to find any pictures of one.

 

Thanks,

 

[Cubster]

Thank you both again!  I'm familiar with the split rivet, and that's what I originally intended to use when I put it back together.  For practicality, I'm now inclined to use the bolt/washer/lock washer/nut combo.  I plan to run it, so it will need lubrication regularly.

I'd also like to share that I've been having a blast running AF 425 & 429 locomotives on my layout the past couple weekends.  It's a real treat to see these in full action again.  They are navigating my K-Line and K-Line by Lionel SuperSnap switches without issues (O31, O42 and O72), along with the 3.4% grades.  FWIW, the more use the SuperSnap switches get, the better they work with wider varieties of tinplate (wearing-in seems to benefit use of tinplate wheels with larger flange sizes).

[mersenne6]

 Northwoods' comments concerning rivets vs. screws certainly makes sense and the possible explanation of why screws on even mint or at least near mint locomotives also makes sense.  As I mentioned everything I have in this line (not a lot) is held together with screws.  Two of the three that I own show very little run wear on the wheels and pickups and the third doesn't exhibit much more.  All are in like new condition.

   If Flyer shipped these trains with rivets and washers and they started their service around the Christmas tree back when it wouldn't have been very long before someone wanted to lube them and if they did they would have to remove the rivet and probably wound up chewing it up enough that they substituted a screw and a nut (and in all of mine - a lock washer).  If this happened when the train was new it would have made sense to put a shiney new screw on a shiney new train which is what mine look like.

[Northwoods Flyer]

Chris,

I have a number of steeple cabs from the 1201 types to the 3110 types.  Flyer made a number of changes during the years of production and gave them different numbers.  I have looked at all of them, and not one has tabs on the sides of the body to go with the slots in the frames. Some of the frames have a coupler pocket, some have two and some have none.  My guess is that the coupler fit into the slot at the end of the frame.  On one example I have the steeple cab only has one coupler, at the rear (opposite the head light) of the engine, and the coupler passes through that small slot in the frame (what I am calling the coupler pocket).

Here are some photos from earlier in the thread that show the fronts and backs of several of the steeple cabs.

 

 

 I am not convinced that Flyer originally used bolts and nuts to hold the bodies to the frame.  In the years that these toys have been around I am sure they have been assembled and disassembled a number of times.  Most of my steeple cabs are indeed held together by bolts and nuts but on at least three of them there is a different fastening device.  It looks like a split rivet that passes through the body and the frame and then a washer, it is then spread apart and flattened.  I think that may have been the original way Flyer fastened them together, but they don't appear as if they would hold up very well if removed more than once. It is more convenient to use the bolt and nut but they are also prone to losening and falling off.  I will take some pictures later on when I have some time.  My green 3110 has one of these split rivets and a bolt and nut. I have an almost pristine 1217 that has two of the split rivets and garter loop couplers. 

 

 The 1217 does not run and I have a suspicion that it was packed away early in its life and not used again or tampered with.  I also have a yellow 1218 that uses the same kind of split rivet. but only has one coupler.

 

These are all pictures that I have posted before.  I will post some more detailed photos of the rivets when I have some time to take them.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

 

[Cubster]

Thank you, mersenne6:  I will go study the photos from Northwoods Flyer.  I'm still surprised that AF didn't use rivets there - pleasantly surprised!

[mersenne6]

 

  I see you got an answer over on the OGR forum.  However, just to provide some additional confirmation all of the #3110's I've seen had just the two screws which also held the coupler in the notched section of the frame front and back.  Northwood's pictures of the series (including #3110) on page 12 show the same thing.  If you look closely at the pictures of the front and the sides there are no additional pin or tabs in any of the steeple cab shells.

[Cubster]

I have a nice little green 3110 that was repaired by a previous owner.  The paint appears original on both the frame and the body, though the cab roof has been epoxied in place.  The wheels have been replaced, and the motor runs great.  I have no idea if the frame, motor and cab body were originally together, or if this 3110 was assembled from parts.

The frame has four slots that could accept tabs from the body - but there's no evidence tabs ever existed on the body.  Instead, it is attached to the frame by one small bolt/nut at each end.

Coupler placement is puzzling.  The previous owner sandwiched the coupler between the cab body sheet metal and the frame.  There are indentations that appear designed to allow a coupler to swivel on the top of the frame at each end.  But there are also slots in the cowcatchers that could accept a coupler underneath the frame.  The couplers are held by the same single bolt/nut at each end that hold the body in place.  The couplers on it now are not designed to fit in the indentations at the top (wrong shape where they are secured between the body and frame).

How were the 3110 cab bodies originally attached to the frames?  Were tabs used?  Were bolts used to hold the couplers/cab body to the frame originally, or were rivets used?  Were the couplers mounted above or below the frame?

If any one has information to share on how the steeple cabs were put together at the factory, I'd love to learn more about that.  Thank you for your kind help.

[mersenne6]

   Out with the Old and In with the New

     The early 1930’s saw many changes in the world of toy train manufacture.  One of the big changes, particularly for toy steam outline engines was the change from cast iron to high pressure diecast superstructures.  One of the train sets in the American Flyer lineup that mirrored these changes was the Paul Revere.

  Set #1343, The Paul Revere, was introduced in the 1931 Catalog. It was an assembly of then current Flyer production – 3182 series passenger cars and the then new #3191 2-4-0 cast iron locomotive.

 Catalog cut

 

 

Set #1343

 

In 1932 everything changed.  The Paul Revere became set #3150 The NEW Paul Revere. The passenger cars were the new, low profile series 3171 passenger cars and the locomotive was the new, die cast, # 3316. 

 

Catalog cut

 

 

 

 

Set #1350

 

 The set survived as The New Paul Revere in 1933 and then, with the addition of another Pullman passenger car the set morphed into Set #1374 The Yellowstone in 1934 and then vanished in 1935.

 

[Northwoods Flyer]

Mersenne6,

Thank you so much for updating the index.  Now I can find where we have posted things.  I also edited the header so that it gives the new location of the Index.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

[mersenne6]

  New Index pp. 38

  Index obsolete - deleted