The Northwoods Flyer Collection
Jack,
I'll be happy to answer your question, but the information has to stay strictly between you and me. If word gets out that I have more trains stored away, I'll be working a whole lot longer than to age 72
The Blueboard Central is intended to be a showcase for the trains and some of the vintage accessories, so there are always a few Prewar O gauge trains on the tracks ready to run. The majority of the Wide Gauge portion of the collection is displayed on the walls.
Including many of the Wide Gauge accessories
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Northwoods......you probably mentioned this in the past, but where on earth do you store all of your stuff? You have so many pieces!
Jack
IF IT WON'T COME LOOSE BY TAPPING ON IT, DON'T TRY TO FORCE IT. USE A BIGGER HAMMER.
Flyer 3208 Box Car and Lionel 2814 Box Car and 2814R Refrigerator Car
American Flyer cataloged their 3208 Box Car from 1928 to 1938. It continued in the line in 1939 and 1940 as the 408 Box Car. It saw a number of cosmetic changes during its run. This example is from about 1930.
The brass tags were later replaced by decals.
Flyer 3207 Sand Car Lionel 2812 Gondola
Lionel - Flyer Comparison Large Freights
Back on pages 30 and 31 of this thread I posted photos comparing the small O gauge freight cars that both Lionel and Flyer had during the pre war era. I have been digging around in the dark recesses under the train table and finally found the large size O gauge Lionel freight cars that I have in my collection. I can finally get around to posting some comparison photos of the types of cars that each company was marketing during that period.
The Lionel cars that I have are the very first cars that I purchased on my own at age 12 back in 1966. I have told that story elsewhere on the forum but the Reader's Digest version is: One snowy Saturday while walking home from the local library I stopped in at a hobby shop and overheard a conversation between the owner and a customer. He had just bought a box of "old trains" from someone and wanted to sell them asap. I asked to see them and he showed me a big cardboard box with lots of track, some big metal cars and a big black steam engine. All the trains that we had at home were American Flyer 3 rail metal trains and some S gauge. I thought these Lionel trains looked pretty neat and wanted them. I asked how much they were and the shop owner told me $15. I asked him to hold them for me and sprinted the 6 blocks home to my house and asked my mom and dad to fund the purchase. I must have been pretty convincing because my dad gave me the money. I grabbed my Flexible Flyer sled and sprinted back to the shop with the money in my pocket. I handed it over to the shop owner and he helped me lift it onto my sled. I dragged the train laden sled back home and unloaded the contents of the box on the basement floor. It turned out that I had a 226 E steam engine and many of the 2800 cars from about 1940. All of them are only operator quality but they formed the core of my collection for many years, and they were run pretty often on the Carpet Central at Christmas and the 4x8 layout in our basement.
I have added to the 2800 series of cars over the years, but I still don't have a representative example of each type. As I have said before, my knowledge of Lionel is fairly limited so if I make some glaring errors please feel free to add some information.
Flyer 3206 Machinery Car
Flyer marketed the Machinery Car from 1928 to 1935.
Royal Blue - Addendum 490B Whistling Baggage Car
Summer is certainly a slow time for trains on the Blueboard Central. I look forward to September 1 and the return of "Train Season". I have made one aquisition recently and that was the addition of a 490B Whistling baggage car to go with the Royal Blue set. Both Mersenne6 and I posted information and pictures about this set back on page 38.
490 Baggage cars were cataloged in the 3/16 O gauge line in 1940 and 1941. The 490B blue baggage car was only cataloged in 1941 as a part of the Royal Blue set No. 4106.
RockIsland52 Northwoods.....lucky you moved North. I don't think AF was allowed inside the Chicago city limits. Jack
Northwoods.....lucky you moved North. I don't think AF was allowed inside the Chicago city limits.
Hey, I beg to differ. Lifelong Chicagoan, still have my AF stuff 60 years later.
Rich
Alton Junction
Steeple Cabs
Update 07/07/2010
1211
Every so often an item shows up on ebay that sends me back to doing research. Not long ago an auction for a 1211 Steeple Cab appeared in the listings. At first I thought it might be a fake or just a poor stamping of a 1217. I did not remember hearing of an electric outline engine with that number so I checked in the Greenberg Guide and sure enough there it was listed.
Northwoods Flyer Steeple Cabs (Addendum) Here are a few additional photos from my collection to illustrate mersenne6's entry 1218 Side stamping End Stamping Headlight Placement 1201 This is a scaled down version of the 1218 Side stamping End stamping 1217 this appeared in 1921 Side Stamping End stamping 3110 This is the version from 1928-1929 The 3110 had two oval metal plates on each side My stable of steeple cabs 1201 1217 1218 3110 Notice the difference in the handrails on the 1218 and the 3110 And the back end of each engine 1270 Here is a recent aquisiton to the collection of Steeple cabs. The 1270 was cataloged in 1927. It has the same mounted in the body headlight and a bell. This one is abviously missing the bell, which I will be replacing. The rear is also rubber stamped with the number. The 1270 is basically a 1218 without its handrails, which you can see if you compare the two. side by side. Edit 9/27/2008 We have a new addition to the stable of steeple cabs. This is a recently arrived 1218 in yellow. It has definitely been well loved and used. It runs like a well oiled machine and the headlight still operates, it is missing its bell. I think some cleaning will improve its appearance. I have more pictures of it ahead on page 17. Northwoods Flyer
Steeple Cabs (Addendum)
Here are a few additional photos from my collection to illustrate mersenne6's entry
1218
Side stamping
End Stamping
Headlight Placement
1201
This is a scaled down version of the 1218
End stamping
1217 this appeared in 1921
Side Stamping
3110
This is the version from 1928-1929
The 3110 had two oval metal plates on each side
My stable of steeple cabs
1201 1217 1218 3110
Notice the difference in the handrails on the 1218 and the 3110
And the back end of each engine
1270
Here is a recent aquisiton to the collection of Steeple cabs. The 1270 was cataloged in 1927.
It has the same mounted in the body headlight and a bell. This one is abviously missing the bell, which I will be replacing.
The rear is also rubber stamped with the number.
The 1270 is basically a 1218 without its handrails, which you can see if you compare the two. side by side.
Edit 9/27/2008
We have a new addition to the stable of steeple cabs. This is a recently arrived 1218 in yellow. It has definitely been well loved and used. It runs like a well oiled machine and the headlight still operates, it is missing its bell. I think some cleaning will improve its appearance. I have more pictures of it ahead on page 17.
Northwoods Flyer
Borden's Milk Car
Mersenne6 and DocBen,
Thanks for your great posts on the Borden's Milk car prototype. Mersenne6 I particularly like your "good news bad news" story. DocBen I think it is great that you are enjoying the trains passed down through your wife's family, my first Bordens car is also a family piece that I remember playing with as a child. I have always liked the Borden's car and I like it even more knowing that the Flyer versions were based on the real thing.
American Flyer cataloged the milk car from 1936 through 1940. These are the years when trucks and couplers changed most often as the transition from "Chicago Flyer" to "Gilbert Flyer" took place. The trucks and couplers are the main differences in the three variations that exist. The earliest cars used hook couplers, followed by the knuckle (curley Q) couplers in 1938 and the link and pin type in 1939 and 1940. American Flyer cataloged the milk car in sets and for seperate sale. General American-Pfaudler Corporation manufactured the prototype of this streamlined, glass-lined milk car for Borden's.
In 1936 - 1938 the car was numbered 3212 and in 1939 - 1940 it was renumbered 412.
This is the 1936 - #3212- version that I grew up with
Type VIII trucks and the hook couplers
Well, the trip was rainy and wet...I eventually found it in the back 40, but it was too sloppy to go back there. I found these photos on the web...they are all of the one at the IRM, I believe. I wonder how many there are still out there? Soooo curious. It also appears that Lionel did a more accurate model version of this car...but I like my Flyer even so.
And my Flyer...
How amazingly ironic that I am camping 5 miles from there, and have plans to go there tomorrow...and you happen to post those pics of the Borden Milk Car tonight. I may have not known it was even there, if it's hidden back in yards somewhere. Thanks for the great post! I'll be sure to find that tomorrow. I've lived 35 miles from there all my life, and never been there. Strange how things work.
The Bordens Milk Tank Car
I just returned from vacation and dropped by to see what had been posted - imagine my surprise to find that my screen name now graces a name train - thanks Northwoods - I'm honored.
...and speaking of vacations and Flyer trains... a few words about the American Flyer Bordens Milk Tank Car that DocBen illustrated in a previous post.
Many people view the car as nothing more than a Flyer Fantasy. In fact the Bordens tank car was for real. The prototype actually came two different ways - the way Flyer made it and the same configuration with fins.
I'm only aware of the existence of one of the real cars (if there are others I'd like to know) and it is safely tucked away at the Illinois Railroad Museum at Union. Back in 1988 I made a visit to the museum and took a picture of the car. After DocBen posted his picture I thought it would be worthwhile posting a picture of the real thing so I went to the slide boxes and...
Bad News - I couldn't find the slide.
Oh well, such is life....
In our family I leave vacation planning to the rest of the family. I like traveling so I really don't much care where we go. Vacation this year was from late May to early June. A couple of days before we were scheduled to go I sat down and got my briefing on where we were going. National Parks were the main focus but everyone wanted to make a stop in Chicago to see the Museum of Science and Industry, The Rookery, and Oak Park. From Chicago we were going to head West. In passing I asked about our proximity to Union.
Good News - we were going right past the place and everyone agreed Dad ought to be granted visiting rights.
In due course we arrived at Union.
Bad News - traffic held us up and it was only a couple of hours until closing.
Good News - I got a ticket and went in anyway and I asked about the location of the Borden car.
Bad News - it was on site but it was out on the most distant set of storage tracks.
Good News - I received permission to walk out there.
Bad News - they had had very heavy rains and the ground in between the track storage areas was almost a marsh.
Good News - the right-of-way was high and dry and I kept my feet dry.
Bad News - the storage tracks were in tight groups of 3 and the Borden car was on the center track sandwiched in between dozens of other freight cars.
Good News - I have a great wide angle zoom lens.
Bad News - the focal length needed to photograph the car distorts the car and makes in look longer than it is.
Good News - distortion or no - I got the pictures and here they are.
As you can see - Flyer did a very credible job of representing the version without the fins.
I have to admit these are very very nice. I love both pre and post war.
AF53, Ray, I think that it is time to add some Flyer to my collection.
John
Nice! Would love to see more pre-war steamer pics, esp the wide gauge! Thanks!
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
You guys are a bad influence on me and my addiction. Knock it off!
BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!!!
The Royal Blue
3/16 O Gauge Passenger Set
Mersenne6 has done an excellent job of posting information on the 3/16 O gauge line that Gilbert produced after taking over American Flyer in 1938 up to the beginning of the War. (Just scroll back a few posts and you can read them for yourself.) I should have never started reading about those trains because it motivated me to start looking for some examples to add to my collection.
I found a Royal Blue set and decided to make it the beginning of this phase of collecting. I quoted part of his post below and added some pictures of the set I recently aquired.
mersenne6 Sheet Metal 1940-1941 Sheet metal New Haven passenger style cars were first offered in 1940. The cars consisted of a #492 baggage and a #495 coach. In addition to the New Haven style American Flyer also offered a sheet metal Pullman and a sheet metal Pullman Observation - #496 and #497 respectively. The New Haven cars came with 4 wheel trucks while the Pullman cars came with 12 wheel trucks. The cars came with or without lights. #495 New Haven style coaches in Pullman Green and Blue Catalog cut illustrating the sheet metal Pullman coach and observation The sheet metal cars were offered in Pullman Green, Apple Green, Red, Tuscan, and Blue. The doors on the baggage cars either matched the car paint or were white. The cars came with belly pans that were painted either black or white. The boxes for these cars will have the car number rubber stamped on the flap along with a letter R,B,G,T - red blue green/apple green, Tuscan. Lighted cars also had the letter "L" after the letter designating the color.
The Royal Blue was cataloged in 1940 and 1941. This example has the 554 ( numbered 556) dark blue streamlined Baltimore & Ohio bullet engine and the 555 (rubber stamped on the bottom) dark blue sheet metal tender.
3207 Sand Car
This post originally appeared back on page 10. I recently added another variation to my collection and I decided to update it here. I've also edited in some additional information to identify the cars here by their designations in the Greenberg guide.
Northwoods Flyer 3207 Gondolas, Sand Cars and Coal Cars Flyer used several terms to refer to their gondola cars over the years. They used the term "coal car" in some of their earliest catalogs. Through the years they used the terms "gondola" and "sand car" interchangeably. mersenne6 has posted pictures of the lithographed versions of the 9 1/2" sand cars. Flyer produced enameled versions of the 9 1/2 inch cars from 1928 to 1938. A few of the variations are pictured here. All of them are numbered 3207. This is the earliest version that I have. It is has two brass plates on each side, one reading "American Flyer Lines", and the other "3207". Notice that the steps at the ends of the car are long, and are actually spot welded to the frame. These trucks are known as type VII This is a variation not listed in Greenberg, but it is very similar to (C) with spot welded steps. This is the new addition. It is very similar to version (B) with riveted steps. Notice the differences in the body color, green vs black frame color, and the difference in the treatment of the applied steps. The next version has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side and the steps are a part of the frame of the car. This is sometimes refered to as the new style of frame. The trucks are known as Type VIII. This is version (E) This verison is from 1938. It also has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side. The style of truck is known as XII. The trucks and the sheet metal knuckle coupler known as the "Curly Q" coupler are the identifying marks for production from this year. This is version (H). The 407 as cataloged in 1939. It has the same style frame with steps and the same style truck as the 1938 version but it is equiped with Gilbert's link and pin coupler. I was sure that I had this variation and when I went to look for it I discovered that I did not own it after all. So now I have discovered one more item to put on my "to get" list. Here are the versions that I have, illustrating the difference in trucks, and the variations in colors of green that were used. Notice the middle and closest cars each have decals but there are two stlyes of decal used. Just one more detail that adds some variety. The vast majority of the 3207s are some shade of green. There is an orange variation that is very difficult to find. I have heard of other variations as well including a grey variation, but I have not seen them. One of the things that I have noticed is that it is difficult to find one of these cars in really excellent condition. I think it is because it has so much play value, hauling around stones, and building blocks or Tinker Toys, or scrap metal, or Erector set parts, and other items. It really is the work horse of the freight cars. When I have sand cars running on display they always carry candy. If there are other examples available to see please post them.
3207
Gondolas, Sand Cars and Coal Cars
Flyer used several terms to refer to their gondola cars over the years. They used the term "coal car" in some of their earliest catalogs. Through the years they used the terms "gondola" and "sand car" interchangeably. mersenne6 has posted pictures of the lithographed versions of the 9 1/2" sand cars. Flyer produced enameled versions of the 9 1/2 inch cars from 1928 to 1938. A few of the variations are pictured here. All of them are numbered 3207.
This is the earliest version that I have. It is has two brass plates on each side, one reading "American Flyer Lines", and the other "3207". Notice that the steps at the ends of the car are long, and are actually spot welded to the frame. These trucks are known as type VII
This is a variation not listed in Greenberg, but it is very similar to (C) with spot welded steps.
This is the new addition. It is very similar to version (B) with riveted steps.
Notice the differences in the body color, green vs black frame color, and the difference in the treatment of the applied steps.
The next version has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side and the steps are a part of the frame of the car. This is sometimes refered to as the new style of frame. The trucks are known as Type VIII.
This is version (E)
This verison is from 1938. It also has two "American Flyer Lines" decals per side. The style of truck is known as XII. The trucks and the sheet metal knuckle coupler known as the "Curly Q" coupler are the identifying marks for production from this year.
This is version (H).
The 407 as cataloged in 1939. It has the same style frame with steps and the same style truck as the 1938 version but it is equiped with Gilbert's link and pin coupler. I was sure that I had this variation and when I went to look for it I discovered that I did not own it after all. So now I have discovered one more item to put on my "to get" list.
Here are the versions that I have, illustrating the difference in trucks, and the variations in colors of green that were used.
Notice the middle and closest cars each have decals but there are two stlyes of decal used. Just one more detail that adds some variety.
The vast majority of the 3207s are some shade of green. There is an orange variation that is very difficult to find. I have heard of other variations as well including a grey variation, but I have not seen them. One of the things that I have noticed is that it is difficult to find one of these cars in really excellent condition. I think it is because it has so much play value, hauling around stones, and building blocks or Tinker Toys, or scrap metal, or Erector set parts, and other items. It really is the work horse of the freight cars. When I have sand cars running on display they always carry candy.
If there are other examples available to see please post them.
I'm still looking for a #407 Sand Car from 1939 with the link and pin couplers.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby.
Wide Gauge Steamer 4692 - Ives Casting 1134
American Flyer began marketing Wide Gauge trains in 1925, but it didn't offer a steam engine until 1929. In 1928 American Flyer and Lionel purchased the Ives Company in a bancrupty sale. In the sale Flyer obtained the Ives steamer boiler casting and the Ives tender. The first Wide Gauge steam engine that Flyer cataloged used the 1134 Ives engine casting and an Ives tender, which used American Flyer trucks with wheels that had red centers. The tender was never cataloged with its own number but instead it was referred to as Golden State after the name plate that Flyer placed on its side.
The 1929 catalog lists three sets with the new steamer. Two of them are passenger sets and one is a 5 car freight. Many years ago I purchased the 1929 version of the 4694 from a local collector. I didn't realize the significance of the engine at the time, and only discovered what I had once I did some research.
Mersenne 6,
This is great information on the 3/16 O gauge passenger cars. I might have to start looking for some cars to make into sets one of these days.
Thanks for your effort and contribution.
Millions of Happy Owners
I've been spending some time examining the items in the Wide Gauge portion of my collection and I was reminded of the variations that exist in the brass tags attached to the freight cars. One of the advertising approaches that Flyer used was the running total of the "Millions of Happy Owners" statements that were used. It reminded me of the days when McDonalds posted the "millions of hamburgers sold" on their golden arches signs. Most of the freight cars in my collection have these "Millions" tags on them. In the Greenberg guide Schuweiler notes that there are 4 different tags used. They are for 6 million (2 designs and color variations), 7 million and 8 million. I happen to have 4 of the green 4017 sand cars and one orange one, and all of the green sand cars have different million tags.
6 million has two different designs. According to Schuweiler the earliest version has a small "Million"
3/16 Passenger Cars
The passenger cars came in two styles - heavyweight Pullman and classic New Haven streamline. On the real New Haven Railroad the men referred to their real cars as "American Flyer coaches."
Die Cast Heavyweight 1939-1941
The first passenger cars offered by Gilbert were die cast heavyweight Pullman cars offered either in Pullman Green or Tuscan. There were two cars #521 Club Car - essentially a combine, and #524 Pullman. Both cars were rubber stamped with their respective car numbers and with "Pullman" on the letterboard. Both cars have plastic window inserts with simulated shades. In addition, the doors, both baggage and passenger, had plastic window inserts glued on their inside faces. The glue for these smaller windows on the doors seems to have grown brittle with time. Consequently, they are often missing or found rattling around inside the car. Both the baggage door and the passenger doors operate. The passenger doors are spring loaded. Both cars were offered in kit form and both came with lights and 12 wheel trucks.
#521 Club Car
Northwoods Flyer And the 1681 M636C, to the thread. Thanks for your comments about the Hudson and its prototypes. Lets not forget the Hudson produced by American Flyer in 1936 before the purchase by Gilbert, as pictured above. If you include this model there would be 5 models. I have two of the examples, the O gauge version by Chicago Flyer and the HO version (I have to photograph this one yet.) I would like to see all of the Hudsons in one photo as you suggest too. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
And the 1681
I was aware of the 1681 from catalogue illustrations, and had noted the the emphasis on the size of this locomotive from the text. It is indicated as being 22 inches long. The Lionel 700E, known to be a 1/4 inch scale model is shown as being 23-3/4 inches long (about 23-1/4 inches at a scale engine-tender spacing). So despite having a single axle leading truck, this locomotive was very close to being a scale model, although some of the detailing is that of traditional toy trains. One particular feature is the piping to the steam dome. This appears to be a feature carried over from German made toys. Many German locomotives had feed water fed into the boiler at a steam dome which contained trays to collect sediment. The headlight is somewhat overscale, but the remaining detail is reasonably correct for a J-1e with a Coffin feedwater heater. Most other Central Hudsons (J1b, J3a) had a transverse Elesco cylindrical feed water heater on top of the smokebox.
Not only was this a near scale model but it preceded Lionel's 700E, although it was much less costly. It may have influenced Lionel into producing the 700E in order to provide a "better" scale Hudson. In fact, it sold for less than the 3/16 scale Flyer J3a Hudson in 1939. This might suggest that the finer detail of the smaller model increased the cost of production.
In retrospect, it appears that Flyer under Chicago management were attempting to produce a scale O Gauge line just as Gilbert took over and moved towards the smaller scale. The 0-6-0 switcher, always described as "O Scale" was a quite reasonable scale replica of the USRA 0-6-0 switcher.
Strangely, Lionel's current "Lionmaster" line appears to be a reinvention of the American Flyer 3/16 O gauge line, including yet another J3a Hudson....
M636C
Thanks Northwoods - I was getting ready to do an update of the index this weekend. Since you were kind enough to take care of that problem I'll go ahead and work on finishing the posts concerning 3/16" Flyer.
Index
A new Index was posted on page 44 on 02/05/2011
The initial Index for this thread was created by Mersenne6. He actually created it twice – having to re-create it at the time the format of the forum was changed. The last index was posted on page 27. The thread has grown by almost 11 pages since that time. I have added to the work that he did and have updated the index through page 37. I’ll try to keep it more current. I realize it isn’t easy to maneuver through the pages, but this will give folks a rough idea of where to find the items that have been posted to date. The index is posted here and I will edit it into the first post on page 1.
Enjoy!
Freight Cars
Box Cars
O gauge:
6 1/2 inch litho - pp. 8, Enamel pp. 17
6 ½ inch #3015 Box car compared to Lionel #655 & # 605 Box car – pp. 30
9 1/2 inch Litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 16
5 1/2 Morris Reefer - litho - pp. 12
Early box car - pp. 22
Boxcars - general comparison of different manufacturers - pp. 7
Boxcar - Standard Gauge - pp. 17
Caboose - pp. 24 long post - Cars: M1111/1111 Center and offset cupola, #1114/1117, 1127
3004/3014/3017/232, 3201/3211/411, 536
6 ½ inch # 3017 Caboose compared to Lionel #657 & # 807 – pp. 31
Caboose - additional pictures and discussion #3017 - paint and truck variations, #232, #1127 - pp. 26
Caboose - #3211, #411 – pp. 29
Caboose - #3201 pp. 30
Dump Car
6 ½ inch #3009, #3019, #230 – pp. 29
6 ½ inch # 3019 Dump car compared to Lionel #653 & #803 – pp.30
6 ½ inch Lionel #659 Dump car – pp. 31
9 ½ inch #3219, #409 – pp. 29
Floodlight/Searchlight
6 ½ inch Lionel # 620 Floodlight car – pp. 31
9 ½ inch #3213, #415
Gondola
6 1/2 inch lithoed for - American Flyer, NYC, PRR - orange, PRR - green, CB&Q - pp. 6, Enamel - #3016 - green and orange pp. 6, 16, 19
9 1/2 inch litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 10
5 1/2 inch litho - pp. 7
6 ½ inch #3016 sand car compared to Lionel # 652 gondola
Cattle Car
O gauge and Standard - pp. 14
6 ½ inch Lionel # 656 cattle car – pp. 31
Tank Car
6 1/2 inch litho - pp. 8, Enamel - pp. 8
6 ½ inch #3018 tank car compared to Lionel #654 tank car - pp. 30
9 1/2 inch litho - pp. 10, Enamel - pp. 10, #3210 – pp. 30
Standard Gauge tank - pp. 10
Crane Cars - two posts - pp. 21
Hopper cars - pp. 22
Log/Machinery/Flat Cars - pp. 24 - Four different posts: Cars - #241/M241, #1106/1146, #3006/3046, #3206/3216, #406
6 ½ inch #3046 compared to Lionel #651 – pp. 30
Operating Cars - 3/16 inch - Hopper, Baggage, Armored Car - pp.21
Wide Gauge Freight Cars
Christmas Wish List 1933 – pp. 32 #4010 Tank Car #4018 Automobile/Box Car #4020 Stock Car #4021 Caboose #4022 Machinery Car
Passenger Cars
Ambassador Cars - pp.22
O gauge passenger cars - series of posts I, II, III - pp.17, 18
O gauge passenger cars - series of posts IV, V pp.20
O gauge passenger cars - last of post series VI - pp.21
Pullman #1206 Lightening Bolt – pp.30
Pullman #1306 - pp.19
#1200 passenger car series - pp. 18
#1621 Delux streamlined passenger cars - pp. 20
#1641, #1642 Hiawatha streamline passenger cars – pp. 31
Wide Gauge Passenger cars Post I, II pp. 15
Steam Engines
S Gauge
#21004/21005 - pp.26
O Gauge
Series of posts on Cast Iron Superstructure Steam Engines part I - Engines #1219, #1094- pp. 10
Continuation of the Series parts II, III IV, V - Engines #3195, #3197, #3195X, #3198, #3190, #3180, #1084 - pp. 11, part VI - Engine #915 and a summary of the end of cast iron steam - pp. 12
Clockwork engine Greenberg type XVII - pp.12
Hiawatha - pp. 15, # 1683 Type XIII – pp. 31
Royal Blue – repaint – pp. 31
Sheet Metal Steam Engines - pp. 13
Sheet Metal Type XX (2-4-4 and 2-4-0) versions from 1934-40 - pp.7, 14
#614 Sheet Metal Steam engine details - pp. 13
#429 Scale 0-6-0 - pp. 15
#420 Die Cast Nickel Trim - 4 posts including pictures of engine, engine in set, and engine as part of delux Erector Set pp. 27
#425 - pp. 20, 1938 - # 425 pp. 35
#3180 pp.28
#3190 pp. 28
#3195X - pp.18 # 3185 and tender pp.29
#3196 and tender pp. 29
#3315 - detailed pictures of consist and locomotive electric motor - pp. 1, pp. 28
#3326 - Christmas Wish List 1932 - pp. 32
#4615 - pp. 19
#4622-6 – Type XV Pacific – pp. 31
General information about O gauge steam engines - pp. 16
Electric Outline Engines O Gauge
Steeple Cabs two long posts - Engines #1201, #1217, #1218, #1218 - Yellow, #1270, #3103, #3110 - pp. 12
Steeple Cab #1270 - pp.13,
#1218 - Yellow - pp.22, 1218 – pp.28,
#3110 - pp. 22, 3110 – pp. 28
Box Cab #3107 detal photos - pp. 26, 27
#3015 – Large Box Cab - pp. 35
# 3020 – Large Box Cab – pp. 35
Electric Outline Engines Standard (Wide) Gauge
First set from 1925 - pp. 5
Eagle I, II - pp.12
New Haven style I, II - pp. 12
NYC style - pp. 12
St. Paul style - pp. 13
Presidential Special - pp. 19
Sets O Gauge
No. 2 Freight Set – Christmas Wish List 1938 – pp. 33
No. 10 Northern Pacific Freight Set – pp. 33, 36
Ambassador - pp.17
The Ambassador Set (passenger – Victory Red) – Christmas Wish List 1930 – pp.32
B&O Passenger Train (streamline) 4322-6 Steam engine and green streamlined cars – Christmas Wish List – 1940 – pp. 33
Bluebird litho - pp. 5, enameled - pp. 7
Bluebird set from 1929 - pictures and catalog cuts - pp. 25
Boxcab lithoed passenger set (brown) - pp. 5
The Brigadier Freight Set – Christmas Wish List 1935 – pp. 32
Broadway Limited (passenger) – Christmas Wish List 1927 – pp. 32
Burlington Zephyr – 9900 (streamlined passenger) Christmas Wish List -1934 – pp. 32, 35
City of Denver set from 1936 - pp.20
Clipper set from 1930: Consist - Engine #3103 red enameled steeple cab, #3103 litho gondola, #3012 litho Box car, litho caboose #3014 - pp. 25
Clockwork Sets: Hummer, Empire Express - pp.14
Clockwork Sets - pp. 15
Clockwork set #16 from1925 - pp.6
Comet from 1935 - pp. 4
Comet (picture of real train set) - pp. 9
Doubleheader - pp. 15, 33
Dual Clockwork train set M20 from 1914 - pp. 10
Explorer Set – pp. 34
Frontenac - enameled boxcab and cars - pp.2
Green Diamond from 1935 - pp. 4
Hiawatha Streamlined Passenger Set – Christmas Wish List 1937 – pp. 33
Highlander set from 1933: Consist - Die cast steam engine #3301, green enameled baggage, pullman, and observation brass trim and decal - pp.25
Iron Horse Set 1931-1932 - pp. 29
Jeffersonian Set of 1927: Consist - all green enamel and litho: Engine #3015, Illini Cars baggage, pullman, observation - pp.24
M1X Clockwork set from 1915: Engine M1, passenger car #1107 wood sheathed litho pullman - Pennsylvania - pp. 25
Man-O-War passenger set - #3280 passenger cars - pp. 21, 27 (Ambassador Cars)
The Merchant Set (freight) – Christmas Wish List 1928 – pp. 32
Mountain Red Ball Set (Double Header Set) – Christmas Wish List 1939 – pp. 33
New Jeffersonian Set from 1928-1931: Consist - two tone blue enamel: Engine #3115, #3280 club car (baggage), #3281 pullman, #3282 observation - pp.24
Oriental Limited - orange litho box cab electric and cars - pp. 3,5
Oriental Limited set from 1927: Consist - orange litho with red window litho trim - Engine #3012 - pp.26
The Pennsylvania Passenger Set (Low Wide cars) Christmas Wish List 1936 – pp. 32, 34
The Potomac - #3180 passenger car series - pp. 21
The Potomac set of 1928 - tan and green enamel: Consist- Engine #3146, #3180 passenger car series - pp. 25
Prairie State set of 1929 - clockwork - red passenger set - pp. 6
Royal Blue Freight and Passenger sets – Christmas Wish List 1941 – pp. 33
#1301T Sheet metal steam - Consist #617 sheet metal steam engine and freight cars-pp. 7
Steel Mogul - pp. 11
Streamlined Steam sets - pp. 8
Zephyr cast aluminum set of 1934 - pp. 3, 14, 15
Zephyr - tinplate of 1935 - pp. 3, 11
Union Pacific streamlined passenger set 1684 power car, 1631 coach, 1632 observation – pp. 34
#1 Passenger Set of 1938 - Consist #4603 2-4-4 sheet metal steam engine - gunmetal gray with copper trim. Passenger cars - red enamel #1214 baggage, #1213 pullman (two) and #1217 observation - pp. 25
#2 Freight Set of 1938 - Consist #4603 2-4-4 sheet metal steam engine - gunmetal gray with copper trim, #3019 dump, #3015 box car, #3018 oil car, #3017 caboose - pp. 24
#1201 Passenger set of 1925: Consist #1218 black enamel steeple cab, #1104 baggage and #1103 passenger cars dark litho green - baggage has GN goat logo and passenger car has "Oriental Limited" above the windows - pp. 25
#1220 set from 1926 - Consist all red enamel and litho: Engine #1218, #1205 baggage, #1306 pullman, #1207 observation - pp. 24
Uncataloged passenger set - Consist #617 sheet metal steam - unmarked green litho passenger cars with orange enameled roof and gray trucks. Car numbers are #1226, 1227, 1228 - baggage, pullman, observation respectively - pp. 26
Sets – Standard (Wide) Gauge
All-American Limited set from 1926 - Consist - maroon enamel and litho: Engine #4019, #4040 baggage, pullman - American, Observation - Pleasant View - pp. 25
The Brigadier (passenger set) – Christmas Wish List 1931 – pp. 32
The Hamiltonian set from 1928 - Consist - red enamel: Engine #4687, baggage pullman, observation - pp. 25
The Pathfinder Set – Christmas Wish List 1929 – pp. 32
Presidents Special (Rookie Tan version) – Christmas Wish List 1926 - pp. 32
The Trail Blazer Set ( freight) – Christmas Wish List 1931- pp. 32
Accessories
#594 Track Gang, #23780 Gabe, #785 Coal Tower, #770 Loader & #734 Op Box car, #583A Magnetic Crane, #23796 Saw Mill, #752 Seaboard Coaler, #718 Mail Car, #772 Bubbling Tower, #23568 Whistling Billboard, #23791 Cow on Track, #759 and #760 Flashers, #758A Sam the Semaphore Man, #774 Rotating Beacon, #766 Animated Station, #779 Drum Loader, #755 Talking Station, #789 Baggage Smasher, #596 Water Tower, #771 Stockyard, #767 Bradford Diner - pp.1
Hand cars - pp. 8, 10
#579 Single die cast street lamp – pp. 36
#580 Double die cast street lamp – pp. 36
#593 Signal Tower, #748 Footbridge, #594 Track Gang, #793 Union Station, #769A Water Tower, #750 Trestle, #768 Oil Supply Depot - pp. 25
#718 Mail pick-up car - pp. 31
#755 Talking Station – pp.37 with link to video and audio of the station in action
Block Signal - pp. 15
Block Signal #2218 – pp. 34
Crossing Gate #2042/4042 – pp. 30
Crossing Gate # 2222a, #2222b – pp. 30
Manual Reverse - track clip accessory - pp. 26
Street Lights #2109/2110/2209/2210 - pp.12, 16
Switches - #405/408 - pp.27
Triangle Light #2005 - 31
Tunnels - pp. 6
Water Tank - pp. 8
Wide Gauge
Mail Bag set #4122 – pp. 31
Stations
Freight Stations - general comparison with other manufacturers- AF, Bing, Fandor, Hornby - pp. 6
97 Long Base - pictures and variation descriptions - pp. 4
Suburban station #93, #234 - pp. 10 , #93 - pp. 25, additional #234 - pp. 25
#234 station variations - pp. 25
#235 Large accessory - pp.10
#236 - pp. 11
Watchman Tower - pp. 11, #92 - pp. 25
American Flyer Prewar Stations - multiple posts I, II, III, IV - pp. 13, 14 Stations described/pictured - #96, #104, Passenger Platforms - #91, #586, Freight Sheds - #M93, #93, #95, #97, #97/98 Long Base, Medium Sized Stations #97, #98, #99, #101, #102, #105, #107, #110
#214 station variations - pp. 14
#90 passenger station - pp.14, 25
#96, #105 additonal pictures - pp. 2
Articles
Backyard Railroad Contest - pp. 29
2nd Anniversary – 1936 Catalog Cover – Streamliners – pp. 34
3/16 O gauge
3/16 O passenger cars #496, #497, #521, #524Several entries regarding history and items available – pp. 34
Page 37 contains several excellent entries by Mersenne6 describing the Gilbert 3/16 O gauge line, with pictures and catalog illustrations
O-Gauge Oscar,
Thanks for posting the photos of your Dad's Flyer trains. They look like they are in excellent condition. It appears that I got the consist correct when I assembled the same train from different sources. I am sure that it brings back some wonderful memories as it glides along the tracks. I hope you get more time off from your work projects to play with your trains and to post more photos when you can.
I use shutterfly for all of my postings. Email me off thread and perhaps I can help you with the postings.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
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Northwoods Flyer,
With a little time between work projects, I can now return to this great thread. Thanks again for your information, time and efforts. Below are some photos of our family's trains on the "Christmas tree layout". The first is Dad's Pennsy locomotive and tender from the late 1930's.
Here is another photo while running.
Below are the passenger cars.
Next is the station, a work-in-progress scene due to several modifications....
Finally, a photo of Dad's American Flyer in the foreground and my Lionel "work train" from the early 1970's in the background.
I apologize for the photographs' sizing and coding at the beginning of this post. Is anyone an expert in using Shutterfly.com and posting photos? If so, I'd appreciate some pointers. (Btw, I'm using Firefox as my browser.)
Thanks.
Mersenne6,
Thank you for your contributions. Once again you have provided the information in an area that I have very little experience. Its great to have the information on the 3/16 O gauge line available here. And as usual, your photos are a great asset. Thanks again!
Kaycee,
to the Forum and to this thread. For some reason your photos did not post. Please try again. I'd like to see your work and I am sure others here would gain inspiration from your project. Here are my examples of the two engines that you have been working on.
3323
While not being able to add any illustrations myself, I thought I might comment on the obvious popularity of the New York Central Hudsons as prototypes for the scale models produced by both Gilbert and Lionel in the late 1930s and early 1940s.
Gilbert produced the 3/16 scale (1:64) J-3a illustrated above, but also the HO scale (1:87) Hudson (which I think was a J-1e, but I'm not certain). Lionel produced both the famous 700E (a J-1e) in Scale O (1:48) and their OO scale model (1:76), also a J-1e and there was also Lionel's relatively realistic O-27 model which appeared to be a little bigger than 3/16 in height, but nearly matching the length of the OO model.
Has any fortunate collector a photo comparing the four 1930s scale models?
Failing that, can anyone post a photo of the American Flyer HO Hudson, which certainly qualifies as pre War, although in a gauge not normally associated with this forum...
I can't help in this regard myself, owning only the 1990 era reproduction of the Lionel 700E (and a Rivarossi HO J-3a). However since the 3/16" AF Hudson fits between my two, as does the Lionel OO model, I'd love to see the four 1930s scale models lined up (although I agree that this isn't going to be easy to arrange...)
3/16 - The Cars
Freight Die-Cast
1939 - 1941
The first freight cars offered in 3/16 scale were a series of die-cast cars. I don't have pictures of any of these cars, however, the catalog cuts illustrating the cars are shown in the first post on 3/16 Flyer (above).
The cars, in numeric order are:
#506 - Boxcar - B&O - white body and brown roof.
#508 - Hopper - Virginian - gray.
#510 - Stock Car - Missouri Pacific or no markings at all - Brown body, sheet metal door, black frame.
#512 - Tank Car - Texaco - silver or gray tank - black cast frame.
#514 - Crane (Wrecker Car) - die-cast black frame - open lattice construction - sheet metal cab - yellow sides, red roof, black smokestack, green die-cast boom.
#516 Caboose - Silver rubber stamping either NYC or UP - red with nickel brass handrails.
Freight - sheet metal
1940 - 1946
#476 Gondola 1940-1941, 1946 - green with black frame - decals - "American Flyer Lines" and "476". 1946 - no journals on trucks.
#483 Flatcar 1941 - black with orange or yellow orange die-cast girder. Girder can be either plain, or with decals "483" and "American Flyer Lines" or just "American Flyer Lines" or "483" on both sides of the girder.
#478 Boxcar 1940-1941, 1946. No journals on trucks 1946.
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