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Pre War American Flyer Pictures - An Invitation

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:54 AM

Mystery Set Box

 

Last year I came a cross a small collection of Pre-War American Flyer trains.  In the collection was an empty set box with the number 7055 stamped on the end.

Somewhere in the past I came across a list showing what years were covered by the million number listed on an item, but I am unable to lay my hands on it now.  This box has "over 6½ million satisfied oweners" on the end label.  Does anyone know which years this box would have been produced?  Does anyone know what was in this set?  I came across a list I printed from some source that has set numbers close to this number, but not this number.  The list I have does not reference who these sets were made for and when I printed the list out, I failed to note it on the list.  I have included it below.  If anyone can identify the source, I would like to update my records with that information.

If this list is too small to view, please email me at strainst@aol.com and I will email a copy to you.  Thanks.

strainst

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Posted by strainst on Sunday, February 12, 2017 7:18 AM

As in the past, this is another wonderful Christmas story/memory that is brought to life by Northwoods Flyer.  I look forward to these postings and as the others, this brings a smile to my heart.  Thanks for the memories.

strainst

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Saturday, February 11, 2017 4:19 PM

Its time to add the 2016 Christmas story to the thread.

                         An American Flyer Tale for Christmas

2016 Edition
 
 

More than anything Tim Lindahl wanted an electric train for Christmas.  Not just any electric train though, it had to be an American Flyer train.  But Tim knew that getting a train from Santa or anyone was impossible.  Earlier in the year the government had shut down all toy production so that the factories could put all of their energy into making things for the war.  Tim worried a lot about his Dad.  Many of his friends’ dads had been called to go to war.  He wondered what would happen to him and his younger brother and sisters, and their Mom if Dad had to leave.  His father worked for the great big Post Office in Chicago; the one where the trains came right into the building and were unloaded.  So far Dad hadn’t said anything about going to war and he didn’t seem to be worried.  Tim tried not to think about it. 

When he wasn’t busy with school or chores Tim kept himself occupied looking at the toy train catalogs that he had saved from better times.  He had Lionel catalogs and American Flyer catalogs and catalogs from Sears and Montgomery Ward, but he found himself most often returning to the American Flyer catalogs.  He would close his eyes and imagine what a sleek passenger train or long freight train headed by a powerful steam engine would look like circling the Christmas tree.  He would imagine his hand on the throttle of the big black transformer sending the engine pounding down the track and then slowing it down so that it eased into the passenger station.  All of these fantasies would end the same way; Tim would open his eyes, sigh deeply and head off to play ball or help in the kitchen. 

It was the tradition in Tim’s family that during the Thanksgiving weekend everyone would come up with a Christmas Wish list. Tim knew that you probably wouldn’t get everything on the list, but it was fun dreaming about it, and making the list.  When it was time to write their letters to Santa, Tim and his siblings would sit together at the big kitchen table and dreamed and wrote and dreamed and wrote some more.  Their parents were in the kitchen with them supervising the writing and making mental notes.  Tim thought for a long time before he wrote anything.  Eventually his note was short and to the point: “Dear Santa,  I know that things are tough for getting toys this year.  If the elves aren’t too busy making bombs could you see if they could make a train for me out of old spare parts?  Thanks;  Your obedient, well behaved, hard working friend,  Tim L.” 

As Tim was finalizing his letter he noticed that his Dad was looking over his shoulder.  Dad glanced over at his Mother with a meaningful look on his face.  It was one of those times when Tim realized that some kind of communication had passed between his father and mother, but  he had no idea what it was.  When all of the children were done with their letters they each addressed an envelope to Santa at the North Pole and designed a postage stamp for their envelope.  Dad always took their letters to the big Post Office with him and made sure they got special handling to the North Pole. 

As the days went by Tim wondered how Santa would find a way to bring him an American Flyer electric train.  He kept on dreaming about his train, and sometimes he even imagined that he had a whole empire of trains to run around the tree and across the living room floor.  He imagined street lights, and accessories and stations where the trains would stop and unload or load their passengers and freight. 

One Saturday while Mom and Dad were out shopping and the rest of the kids were in various  places Tim was laying on the living room floor going through his catalogs for the millionth time.  He had each page memorized but still he turned them one by one and savored the colorfull illustrations of trains.  “Which one will Santa bring?” he wondered.  His reverie was disturbed by knocking at the front door.  He jumped up quickly and ran to the sturdy oak door.  He could see a hat and a man’s head through the windows in the upper fourth of the door.  He wasn’t expecting anyone to come to the house and Mom and Dad didn’t tell him to expect anyone either.  Cautiously he unlocked the door and pulled it open just enough to look out at the man standing there.  The man looked down at Tim and in a deep voice asked, “Does Ned Lindahl live here?”  “Yes he does.” Tim replied in a nervous sounding voice, “He’s my father.  But he isn’t here right now.  But he should be back any second.”  The man tipped his head to the side and eyed Tim up and down.  “Well here is the stuff we talked about.”  Only then did Tim notice that the man had a box in his hands a little bigger than a shoe box.  He held it out for Tim to take.  When Tim took it from him he noticed that it was very heavy. “Be sure to tell him that Mr. Winter left a box for him.” said the man and he turned to leave.  He took two steps, turned around and looked directly at Tim. “It woudn’t be a good idea for you to look in that box young man.”  The man walked down the stairs and Tim wasn’t sure, but he thought he could hear the man chuckling. 

Tim carried the box to the table in the hall.  He stepped back from the box like it was a ticking time bomb.  “What is this all about?” he said to himself.  Before he had time to think about it there was another knocking at the front door.  Tim ran to the door and quickly opened it.  There stood another man holding a much larger box than the first one.  Tim recognized the mailman’s uniform that the man was wearing, but this was not their regular mailman Bill who was a friend of Dad’s.  “Hey kid, is your father at home?” “No” Tim replied, “But  he should be here any second.”  “Well tell him my wife says that we have to get rid of this stuff and he can have it.”  The man shifted the box a bit and it rattled. “Its pretty heavy kid.  Where can I put it?"  Tim led him to the table in the hall where the first box sat and the man put it down on the floor with a  heavy sounding thud.  The box was securely tied with clothesline done up in sturdy knots.  “Better not touch this before your Dad gets home.”  The uniformed man turned and headed for the door.  “Mister, who should I tell my dad dropped off the box?” The man smiled broadly and said “Just tell him you met one of Santa’s elves.”, and he closed the door behind him.  “One of Santa’s elves!” thought Tim; “Could he really be one of Santa’s elves?” 

At that moment Tim could hear his parents coming in the back door.  He raced to meet them and started to pour out the story of the two boxes and the men who delivered them.  As he chattered on, his parents exchanged another one of those looks that communicated without words.  Tim’s mother spoke up and said “My, my what an adventure.  That sounds like a story you would hear on the radio.  I baked some cookies this morning and the milkman left some fresh milk in the box.  Let’s go and have a snack.”  Tim was a bit puzzled by his Mom’s reponse but the thought of fresh cookies and cold milk drew his attention. 

After his snack he realized that Dad hadn’t joined them.  He found Dad reading the paper in the big easy chair in the living room and listening to the radio.  When Tim came into the room Dad asked “Say where are those boxes you said were delivered?”  Tim spun around to point to the table in the hall. The table was empty and both boxes were gone.  Tim’s mouth fell open and he turned back to his Dad. “They’re gone!” he exclaimed.  “So it seems.” Dad replied.  He quickly got up and put his hands on Tim’s shoulders.  “Let’s go get the sleds and find your brother and sisters.  With the fresh snow last night Garfield Hill should be perfect for sledding. 

The time leading up to Christmas Eve and Christmas Day was busy and filled with activity and preparation.  The only time that Tim had any opportunity to think about Mr. Winter and Santa’s elf was when he dropped into bed at night, and even then it wasn’t very long because he almost immediately fell asleep.  As the time grew closer it seemed to Tim like the household got busier.  Mom and his sisters were busy making cookies and candy.  Dad worked some extra shifts at the Post Office because many of the other workers wanted to get their holiday preparations completed; and some of them had signed up to go into the armed services and anticipated leaving at any time.  Tim and his brother kept the sidewalks at their house shoveled, and they shoveled some of their neighbors’ walks too.  They were usually rewarded with a nickle, once in a while a dime, and frequently a candy cane.  When he could, Tim poured through his train catalogs and imagined the train that Santa might bring for him. 

Finally it was Christmas Eve.  The tree and the house were decorated.  The house was filled with the wonderful aromas of baking and the special dishes Mom made for the Christmas feasting.  As the evening moved on Tim’s family got ready to go to church.  They all loved the Christmas Eve service because of the music, and the big fragrant fir that stood in the front of the Sanctuary with dozens of big brightly colored lights on it.  Tim especially liked the end of the service when everyone held lighted candles and sang “Silent Night”.  All of the Lindahl children liked the end of the service because it meant that they could hurry home to see if Santa had been to their house and left their presents.  Some years he left them while the family was at church and some years he waited until they were all in bed asleep, and they would find them in the morning. 

Once they arrived at their front door after the walk home from church Tim and his siblings all crowded up against their father as he stood unlocking the door.  Each wanted to be the first to see if their presents were under the tree.  As soon as Dad had the door open there was the thundering sound of four pair of feet running through the house.  Tim’s brother got to the tree first this year and he stopped dead in his tracks.  The rest of the children ran right into him almost knocking him over.  Tim could see over the heads of his siblings and was immediately disappointed that the base of the tree was just as empty as it had been when they left for church.  Mom and Dad were standing at the entry to the living rrom when Dad said “Well it looks like St. Nick hasn’t made it here yet.  He must have gotten delayed in Tierra del Fuego.  I guess that means there is only one thing left for you to do.”  As if they had practiced a synchronized move, all four of Ned Lindahl’s children turned and thundered up the stairs to their bedrooms and were in bed before Mom and Dad had their coats off.  

It took a few minutes for Tim to fall asleep.  He kept thinking over and over “I hope Santa brings me a train.  I hope Santa brings me a train.” 

The next thing he heard was the sound of Mom banging on a pot with a wooden spoon and Dad calling up the stairs, “Wake up sleepy heads!  Santa has been here.”  This time it was Tim who leaped down the stairs two at a time and was the first one to the tree.  He could hardly believe his eyes.  There must have been other presents under the tree but all he saw were two ovals of 3 rail track, one inside of the other.  On the inside track was a blue engine followed by three beautifully colored and detailed blue passenger cars.  As Tim dropped to his knees he could see the electric outline engine had the number 3113 on a brass number board.  The outside track was being circled by a grey streamlined steam engine and tender.  It was pulling three freight cars.  Tim could hardly believe that Santa had been so good to him.  He barely noticed that neither train was new.  Santa had taken his advice and had the elves find some older leftover trains for him, and they were all American Flyers.  Tim and his Dad and siblings played with those trains for hours.  Each year after that those two trains had an honored place circling the family tree. 

Years later when Tim was a grown man he asked his father how “Santa” had managed to find trains that year when none were being produed or sold.  Dad smiled and replied, “Mom and I knew for months ahead of time that you wanted a train for Christmas.  I talked to a number of my co-workers at the Post Office to see if they knew of anyone who wanted to get rid of any trains.  “Mr. Winter” was actually my supervisor and the blue train was his when he was a boy.  I think he called it the Blue Bird.  The other train came from Santa’s Elf, who was another of the mail carriers in a different part of the city.  He heard about your request for an American Flyer train from Mr. Winter and decided that his trains would find a new home with you.  Mom and I were sure that the surprise had been spoiled when they delivered the trains when we weren’t home.  Mr. Winter said you looked terrified when he showed up at the door.  He wondered if you thought he was a spy bringing some kind of secret weapon to the house.  Tim, I’m sorry that we couldn’t find new trains for you that year.”   Tim smiled and gave his Dad a big bear hug. “Dad they couldn’t have been better if they had been made out of solid gold.”  “Now lets go turn out the living room lights and run some trains.”

 

Merry Christmas

 

Enjoying the World’s Greatest Hobby 

Northwoods Flyer

 

Mr. Winter's Bluebird Set from  1928

The set brought by Santa's Elf    

The Pennsylvania Freight  Set #1716 from 1937

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, February 9, 2017 7:14 PM

MYLAR!

Last weekend I splurged and ordered Mylar paper protectors for some of my unusually large and rare paper items, some of which are extremely fragile.  Tonight I carefully placed the items into the protectors.  Here are the results. 

C. 1917 newspaper ad

December 1922 Sunday Comics Ad from Seattle Post

c. 1925 American Flyer foldout announcing Wide Gauge side A

c. 1925 American Flyer foldout announcing Wide Gauge side B

For whatever reason, the above foldout dates to a very narrow time frame to around the end of April / early May of 1925, and are tough to find.  The wording of the text in American Flyer advertising of Wide Gauge changed significantly in late May of 1925.

c. November 1926 Denver Post advertisement aimed toward boys to gather subscriptions and earn a free train.

c. 1926 Sunday Comics advertisement

December 1926 Detroit Press advertisement that uses a specific boy's name to advertise American Flyer trains. 

A different December 1926 Detroit Press advertisement that again used a specific boy's name to advertise American Flyer trains.

In addition to the above items, I placed a number of mid 1930s Flyer foldouts into mylar sleeves.  Although it was somewhat pricey to buy these larger sleeves, it is worth it, as I was afraid to handle some of these items because they were so fragile, especially the Detroit Press pages.  Now I can show these to visitors without worry.

NWL

 

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Tuesday, February 7, 2017 6:26 AM

mersenne6

 

NWL, here it is.

AF Jeffersonian

 

Mersenne6,

Interesting, your set comes with the 3015 with the extra long pilots and handrails over the sand domes.  That is a variation that does not come along often.  I can only guess that your set is an early 1927 set.

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Posted by mersenne6 on Monday, February 6, 2017 6:54 PM

 

NWL, here it is.

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, February 5, 2017 9:28 PM

Northwoods,

I guess we all miss something.  I never realized there were two different numbers associated with the flashing signal variations.

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, February 5, 2017 8:23 PM

Back on July 24, 2013 I posted the following entry on the #203 and the #223 Flashing Signal.  I finally added a green version of the #233 to the collection. Here are some photos of the variations I have so far.

Northwoods Flyer

Flashing Signal #203 and #223     Addendum

Back on an earlier page NationWide Lines posted some photos of the #203 and #223 signals when we were cataloging wide gauge accessores.  I recently acquired a #223 in blue so I thought I would post it with my #203 Flashing Signal

The #203 without the operating lever is on the left in green and the #223 with the operating lever in blue is on the right.

 
A few more photos of the #223
 
 
 
 
 
This leads me to believe that the #203 probably comes in a blue version as well, particularly when the catalog shows the Flashing Signal in blue
 
 
I've re-posted NationWide Lines' entry below to keep the information together.
 
                                                         +++++++++++++++++++++++

Since Northwoods brought up the difference of the banjo signal with and without the operating arm, I thought of the following similar accessory, which was marketed as the 203 Flashing Signal (without operating lever) and 223 Flashing Signal (with operating lever).  Like the 202 and 222 Banjo Signal, this item first appeared in the 1930 Flyer catalog.

There are significant differences between the 203 and 223 versions of this accessory.  The 203 version does not have the moveable arms inside the top and the rear of the top is not punched out.  I have shown closeups of the 203 and 223 versions to show the operating mechanism.

 

223 on the left and 203 on the right in photo below

 

 
 
 
Front of 203
 
 
Rear of 203
 
 
Front of 223
 
 
Front of 223 with flashing arms half closed
 
Rear of 223 with arms up
 
 
Rear of 223 with arms down
 
 Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
 

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:59 PM

NationWideLines,

Great posts!  The information makes it easier to identify some of those odd combinations of cars and engines that show up now and then.  Thanks for the excellent photos too.

Enjoing the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Sunday, February 5, 2017 8:25 AM

Yet another variant to go with these cars. 

This unusual 3020 appears to be all original and is the second such 3020 like this observed by myself.  The "what is it?" factor really applies to this one.  A 3020 body on a c. 1927 frame, with harpoon couplers?????  How can this be?? 

I acquired this locomotive with two Illini series cars, a dark green baggage car and a dark green coach.  The dark green engine body is a match to the era from which these cars would have been produced.

My thoughts are that this unusual 3020, along with the other one I previously saw, is that they are items that were repaired / serviced by the American Flyer factory some time around 1927.  More specifically, my thoughts are that someone dropped their 3020 and broke the cast iron frame.  They sent their motor off for service and by that time American Flyer no longer had any cast iron frames for the 3020.  Hence, American Flyer modified a later frame and added the harpoon couplers from the original 3020 so that the now modified engine would still couple to the cars that the owner of the train had, thereby making a repair to satisfy the customer, using the parts that were available at the time.

NWL

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, February 4, 2017 2:30 PM

ILLINI / COLUMBIA Variaions...

I know this topic has been covered before by myself and Mersenne6, but I have a couple of items to add to the discussion.

First some background on the Illini type cars.  The Illini and Columbia coaches were introduced in the top of the line 20th Century set in 1922, with the new NYC type T locomotive.  Early Illini coaches are dark green and the early Columbia coaches were brown.  There was no true observation car in these early sets, just a coach with little porthole type markers on one end.  In approximately 1925 American Flyer started making observation cars.  Also, in or aound 1925 switched the colors of the cars, the Illini cars became a lighter green and the Columbia coaches became more of a maroon color.  For whatever reasons, the Columbia cars were discontinued in or around 1925/26.  All I really can say about this is that there are few maroon sets.

American Flyer kept the Illini cars in their top of the line O gauge sets through 1927.  In 1928 the top of the line O gauge sets become enamel painted cars and the Illini cars are not shown in the catalogs after 1927.  Although not shown in the catalogs, the Illini cars did not completely disappear until approximately 1932???  The later production of these cars appears to be limited to lower priced offerings by various department stores / wholesalers.  JC Penney used these bodies in one of their store branded Nation Wide Lines trains and Montgomery Ward showed the cars in sets in the 1929-1930 era catalogs.  The later, uncataloged cars also kept up with Flyer's production as extremely late sets are found with gray trucks, instead of black trucks. 

Getting back to the point of my post, I would like to show some pictures of sets that transitioned the 1925-1926 era.

First here are some pictures of a number of different variations of these sets.

The above picture shows a number of variations from the 1922 through approximately 1925 era.

The above picture shows sets from the 1927 through 1932 era.  This photo shows some of the changes that occurred during the late production, such as the roof ventilators on the cars disappearing after approximately 1927-1928 and the trucks changing from black to gray paint.

During the 1925 to 1926 era, as production features changed on these cars, some variation crossovers appear.  First off the below set features a Maroon 3020 engine, brown baggage, brown coach (with observation portholes), and maroon observation.  This is a boxed set, with setbox and all boxes are correctly labeled for brown/maroon colors.

Brown Baggage with early style trucks

 

Brown Coach with later style trucks

Portholes on Brown Coach

Maroon Observation

Next up is a set c. 1925 that is believed to have been sold through Butler Brothers as a 7000 series uncataloged set that included accessories (station, tunnel, signals, and 2 trees) as shown in a c. 1925 Butler Brothers catalog.  I believe this to be true as I acquired several boxes of track that was marked with Butler Brothers numbers and two trees from the seller, who purchased this set along with several accessories from the original owner's family.

This set features light green 3020, dark green baggage, light green coach, dark green observation, all with the harpoon couplers that were found only on Illini and Columbia cars. I have found that it is unusual to find the light green cars with harpoon couplers.

So the next set represents a bit of a hodge podge of stuff, as the cab on the 3020 is numbered 3019 and came in a box marked 3020, came with a brown baggage car and a light green coach, all with harpoon couplers.

 

Next up is one of those late oddities.  As mentioned, American Flyer was making many changes to their line over the years.  In addition to the colors of the cars changing, American Flyer changed the truck styles, changed the coupler styles, changed the door handle styles, changed from the roofs having ventilator bumps to being smooth roofs, and discontinued the use of air tanks on the cars. 

So the following set is a boxed set dating to 1926.  The set features a black 3014 engine, light green baggage, light green coach, and dark green observation, all cars having hook couplers and air tanks.  It is very unusual to find air tanks on the cars with hook couplers,  I know Mersenne6 has a set, but I do not recall the details of his set.  It is also very unusual to find the dark green bodied cars with hook couplers. 

The dark green observation car, shown above, appears to have had one side put in the press wrong, as the observation railing and body did not fit together well, when I got it.  I had to take it apart and make a slight adjustment to the body so that they would fit together better.  I discovered that the body has a very small rail that sits flat on the frame and that there was a small area that would normally sit flat on the frame, but due to the body being in the press wrong, there was a small flap of metal that would normally be flat along the frame, but was bent inward from the side and was mis-aligning with the observation railing and causing the whole end of the car not to fit well together.  I adjusted it and the car fits together better. 

The last unusual Illini series car I have is a car from c. 1932.  This is the latest illini set that I can put a specific date to.  I attribute it to 1932 simply because of the engine, which features a casting that was not introduced until 1932.  This set came to me as a boxed set, with setbox and individual box for the engine.  I believe the tender and cars were likely wrapped in wax paper.

The engine is most unusual, in that it features a bell, which is attached by a screw from the bottom (as these die cast engines typically had a cast bell that had a shaft protruding through the casting that was then peened/pressed to hold it in place) and the motor is an early style that was typically found in a cast iron cab.

There is also one other feature that makes this engine special, its original box, which is marked 3357 Loco, a number that has not been reported previously.

The tender with the engine is also the earlier style body that is punched for the standard gauge sized square plates, but is decaled instead.

So the transition part of the cars on this set, is found in the baggage car doors.

The doors are dark green with the early style cast door handles.  Obviously someone found some old parts (doors) and put them on this car at the factory.  I have also seen late light green cars with brown doors, which would be from a Columbia baggage car.

The coach has the rounded windows being un-punched.  It is thought that these un-punched windows is a result of the production of the JC Penney Nation Wide Lines cars, which featured the same bodies, but a different lithograph and did not have these arched windows, and no need for there to be punched windows in this area.

 

 

Lastly, the observation car

Mersenne 6, please re-post the photos of your set with the hook couplers and air tanks.  I would appreciate more information on that set.

 

NWL

 

 

 

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Posted by LL675 on Friday, February 3, 2017 7:51 PM
thanks...didn't realize this was two different pieces. better spend more tome looking this thread over before I get my feet wet.

Dave

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Friday, February 3, 2017 5:57 AM

LL675

that's about normal for me. this one is only $2, so cheap enough. just wondering what parts are avalible.

 

 

Well, look at what is for sale. 

1) a caboose frame

2) a repainted illini baggage car body (which originally would have been lithographed)

So what are you getting?  nothing but junk. 

What are you thinking to rebuild?  A caboose or a baggage car? 

My thoughts are why rebuild either?  complete cabooses can be found for around $10.  As for the repainted lithograph body, what could you match it to?  You cannot find any parts for it, other than on other junk cars, so  you might as well skip this junk lot.

NWL

 

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Posted by LL675 on Friday, February 3, 2017 4:14 AM

that's about normal for me. this one is only $2, so cheap enough. just wondering what parts are avalible.

Dave

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, February 2, 2017 8:34 PM

Dave,

Pass on that one, it is junk and it would not be worth your while to get the parts.  I suggest you find one that is complete with all of the parts and then restore it, as you will spend more finding parts for that junker than you would buying a complete one that needs restoration.

 

NWL

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Posted by LL675 on Thursday, February 2, 2017 7:42 PM

I like to search junk boxes for rebuilds. I've done quite a few Lionels. I am getting more interested in Prewar Flyer (Greg's fault) and I spotted this on the bay. Just curious what kind of parts avalibilty there is. New, other junkers? Thanks

Dave

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, February 2, 2017 5:53 PM

Nationwidelines

 

 
M636C

Clearly purchasers were becoming more demanding, which led to the smaller scale but more accurate models of the Gilbert era.

Peter

 

 

 

I would also guess that the technology for die casting the engines was also improving significantly, which led to the creation of more realistic looking toy train locomotives.

NWL

 
Certainly die casting techniques were getting better. I think Lionel's 700E Hudson was an example of this, which however stood more or less alone in Lionel's range of models. But the streamlined passenger cars illustrated above were not die cast, but pressed steel. These were more realistic, but not because techniques had changed. Again in the Gilbert era, the models of the New Haven cars which ran with the virtually scale model locomotives were pressed steel, and not die cast, although the Pullman cars were die cast to get the appropriate shape and detail. The adoption of streamlined and light weight cars on prototype roads allowed very clever use of the pressed steel techniques to produce near scale models.
 
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Thursday, February 2, 2017 3:04 PM

M636C

Clearly purchasers were becoming more demanding, which led to the smaller scale but more accurate models of the Gilbert era.

Peter

 

I would also guess that the technology for die casting the engines was also improving significantly, which led to the creation of more realistic looking toy train locomotives.

NWL

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Posted by M636C on Thursday, February 2, 2017 2:13 AM

The 432 and 435 models are clearly based on the Baltimore and Ohio P-7 class Pacifics of 1927, see

http://www.borail.org/BO-No5300.aspx

The 432 had wheels of the appropriate diameter, but two axles instead of three. Lionel made similar compromises on models of that era and earlier. The 435 would appear to be a second thought, with the right number of coupled axles but with a much smaller diameter in order to fit them under the foreshortened shell. Clearly purchasers were becoming more demanding, which led to the smaller scale but more accurate models of the Gilbert era. But the 432 and 435 provided a locomotive that could easily be compared with the prototype.

Peter

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  • From: Duluth, Minnesota
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Wednesday, February 1, 2017 8:15 PM

Speaking of siblings; here are the 432 and the 435 posing together for a family portrait.

 

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Duluth, Minnesota
  • 1,967 posts
Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, January 29, 2017 10:11 PM

NationWideLines,

What a great find, and its in fantastic condition.  Thanks for sharing the photos.

Dave,

I'm glad you like the engine. I think Flyer was really on to something in their design by the time they produced this engine and its siblings.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

  • Member since
    June 2002
  • From: Ohio Valley
  • 706 posts
Posted by LL675 on Saturday, January 28, 2017 10:29 PM

original or not, I like the ivory windows. great pics Greg.

Dave

It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody  from Toy Story)

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    November 2015
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Posted by Sturgeon-Phish on Saturday, January 28, 2017 8:03 PM

Very nice, great find!

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    August 2011
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, January 28, 2017 4:22 PM

Set 1101 c. 1925

I picked this set up at an auction today and it is just another variation to go into the train vault, until I add some more shelf space.

This is a boxed set, with extremely nice set box and interesting items of original paperwork.  The oiling instructions recommend using "Light Vaseline"  instead of oil, because the oil may get on the wiring and cause shorts. 

I have to say that this variation is the best looking, in my opinion.

 

NWL

 

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Posted by Nationwidelines on Wednesday, January 25, 2017 2:49 PM

Pride of the Yankees?

Here is a Yankee Flyer Line car from 1916.  Not really sure why Flyer went with Yankee Flyer, but 1916 saw the first use of Continental Flyer Line and Imperial Limited Line, most likely in response to Hafner's entry into the Canadian market. 

All I can say is that 101 years old, the car is in remarkable condition.

 

NWL

  • Member since
    August 2011
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Monday, January 23, 2017 9:15 PM

Northwoods,

Congrats on 9 years.  Mersenne6 beat me to posting the litho 9 inch freights, so I don't have anything readily available to post relating to 9, other than this 9 inch caboose that was poorly repainted by a former owner. 

There are about a dozen or so of these cabooses with these funky handrails that are known to exist.  They date to early 1927 and match the catalog artwork.  Their limited numbers appears to be due to the complexity of the handrails.  Here is a view of the catalog artwork.

 

NWL

 

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Posted by mersenne6 on Sunday, January 22, 2017 8:11 PM

Ok, 9 it is - the 1925 versions -

Great Northern

 

 

ART Reefer

 

Nickel Plate

 

B&O

Gondolas

NYC

 

PRR

 

Union Pacific

 

IC

 

Tank

 

 

Flat Car

 

...and an oddball - AF tank overprinted with black litho

 

Happy 9th Anniversary Northwoods.  Smile

 

 

  • Member since
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  • From: Duluth, Minnesota
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Sunday, January 22, 2017 11:56 AM

 

Image result for happy anniversary

January 22, 2008  -  January 22, 2017

 

Celebrating

9

 years

of

Pre War American Flyer Pictures

 

Each time that I post another anniversary greeting I think back to those first days and weeks that this thread was up and running.  I would have never predicted when I posted for the first time that there would be so many folks who were willing to post photos of the items in their collections.  I remember how pleased I was that folks were actually posting photos and sharing their knowledge of American Flyer Trains. Folks have posted many great questions too, and it is a rare occasion when someone isn't able to give an answer. There is a significant amount of knowledge about American Flyer Trains posted in this thread that I don't think you can find easily anywhere else. Of course I realize that with the way this thread has grown it isn't always easy to find the exact bit of information that you may be seeking either. I like to think of it as wandering into a new to you hobby shop, or a previously unexplored antique shop.  Each turn of the page, or posting, brings some unexpected delight.  I feel that way quite frequently when I wander back through the thread.

I hope that as I approach retirement one of these years (yes I know exactly how long it will be) I will be able to work on some kind of an index to help folks find what they might be looking for.  I recently made a job change and I have less time to devote to hobby interests than I once had. I hope that folks will continue to post photos, share insights and ask questions.  I look forward to posting as much as I look forward to seeing what each new post brings.  Thanks to all of you who come and visit.  I have made some wonderful friends here. I think you will find a cordial group to spend time with.

Thank You to Kalmbach and Classic Toy Trains for the opportunity to come and "play trains" and share this information in one place. Its been another great year. I eagerly look forward to what comes to light in the next year.

I like American Flyer's line of 9 1/2 inch freight cars. (Of course its a fair question to ask:  "What don't you like about American Flyer?).  So for the 9th anniversary let me present 9 freight cars from American Flyer's 9 1/2" freight car line.

3208 Box Car

3216 Log Car

3219  Dump Car

3210 Tank Car

3207 Sand Car

3025  Wrecker

3206 Machinery Car

3212 Borden's Milk Car

3211 Caboose

Happy Anniversary

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

Greg

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

  • Member since
    August 2011
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Posted by Nationwidelines on Saturday, January 14, 2017 6:09 AM

Northwoods, there is one error in your description.  You list the set as being with a 433A tender.  I realize you base your information on the Greenberg's guide, but that book is not 100% accurate.  Actually, the 433A tender is the tender with the freight coupler.  The tender with the passenger coupler is simply a 433 tender.  I can confirm this due to observed tender boxes with these sets and tender boxes with freight sets.

I think the 1939 catalog may have listed the color of the cars with the set, but I know that the 1940 catalog did not mention the color of the cars.

I have observed boxed sets with the 435 engine coming with red cars, chrome cars, and yellow 6-wheel coaches (which would have come with the Union Pacific set as 4 wheel cars).  I do not recall seeing a 435 with blue cars, but in my opinion it certainly could exist.  My guess is that 1940 was simply a year for selling of whatever color cars they had left, as they only cataloged 2 sets using up Chicago items.

I know there is a report that the 435 with yellow cars is a special set for a Buffalo NY area retailer, but it is difficult for me to confirm that, as so few of these sets come along as boxed sets.  My 435 with yellow cars does come in a setbox marked for a Buffalo retailer; however, the setbox is numbered for the 429 switcher with freight cars.  I still kick myself for not buying the switcher set that sold on the same auction that I bought my set on, as I suspect that buyer got my setbox.

NWL

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Duluth, Minnesota
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Posted by Northwoods Flyer on Friday, January 13, 2017 9:49 PM

Red Streamlined Cars and  #435 Engine

Several entries back I posted the blue set of streamlined cars headed by the #432 Atlantic that had been on my bucket list. NationWideLines brought up the #435 Pacific and I thought I would post some photos of that engine heading up a red streamlined passenger set. (The cars and the engine in this photo are a marriage.  NationWideLines helped me acquire the cars - Thank You again - and I found the engine on my own.) I am fairly certain that photos of NWL's set are posted somewhere on the thread.

This set most likely comes from 1939 or 1940. 

It is headed up by the #436 Locomotive-Tender combination which  is a #435 Type XV Pacific die-cast engine, and a 433A Type XV tender.

To be clear; the ivory paint on the cab window is most likely an addition by a previous owner.  Unless someone else can verify that they have the same ivory windows I am sure that the cab windows should be black.

The set from 1939 was numbered No.317 and the set from 1940 was numbered No.4013

Both sets had two 1621-6 coaches

and a 1622-6 observation

Schuweiler says "The actual color of the cars in these sets is questionable since sets with 436 locomotive and tender have been reported with both blue and red cars.  American Flyer did not designate the car color in the catalog or price list...."

I suppose that there are only a few of us sticklers for accuracy to whom it matters.   As always Flyer produced some beautiful sets with the detailed engine and brightly colored cars.

Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby

Northwoods Flyer

The Northwoods Flyer Collection

of

American Flyer Trains

"The Toy For the Boy"

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