Great info. I depend on you guys to show me the way. Of course there would be a transitional version of these locos, makes perfect sense given Flyers variation history. Well there's another piece I'll be on the lookout for. Thanks fellas. Your knowledge is always appreciated.
Cool old lokey. Kinda reminds me of an old hot hod with the lowered front and the low roofline and all!
Oldest American Flyer Electric????
My New Years project has been to get the pictured Flyer electric back into running condition.
This engine apears to be either an engineering/production sample, or one of the 50 electric engines made to test the market in 1918 (per a reported letter from WO Coleman to Lou Hertz, discussing the first American Flyer electric motors).
All I can say is the motor is very unusual with a number of features that point to the earliest production or even engineering/pre-production, which would date the motor to 1918 or possibly earlier.
I have had this engine for about 2 or 3 years and had to modify some springs and brushes so they would fit in the brush tubes. Then I had to solve some insulation issues so the motor would not short.
At 99+/- years it runs incredibly strong!
NWL
Northwoods - Wow, nice treasure!
Thanks fife. The additions to the collection have slowed in the last year for a number of reasons. The items that are on the "most wanted list" are getting to be fewer, but definitely more expensive. The term "a king's ransom" comes to mind for some of them.
vintageflyer and NationWideLines, Thanks for pointing out the variation in the 432. When vintageflyer raised the issue I suspected that it was a transition piece. I went and checked the engine and their is no touch up or indication that there was any alteration after it left the factory. Now I know what a real treasure I have.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
vintageflyerThe rubber stamped "432" is from 1939. The white stripe and red window appears on the 1938 version which also is numbered "43224" with a decal. Look closely to see if your loco has been touched up.
The 432 with red windows and white stripe, although unusual appears to be a legitimate variation. I have one and have seen a number of others over the years. I also have an original 435 that just has the white stripe. Here is a shot of my 432 with white stripe and red windows.
I suspect these are early 1939 variations that were decorated for 1938, but instead recieved the 1939 rubberstamping. After all these were toys and minor variations such as the stripe and window color are things that only drive us collectors crazy.
My engine even has the white striped drive wheels, which are found on 1938 engines. There are no touchups on this engine and I suspect it was just a transitional piece, as it would seem unlikely that the switch from 1938 to 1939 decorations was made on a single piece as the individual shells, motors, stickers, etc. are unlikely to match up number wise at the end of the production. It is more likely that the decision was made to have the transition occur on the 432 shells as it seems as if these crossover decorated 432s are more common than crossover 435 engines.
Northwoods Flyer The trucks each have six wheels so that makes these cars very likely to be from Set #315 from 1939. The cars from 1938 had 4 wheel trucks and white belly pans. (Someday I will add a set of the 4 wheel truck cars to the collection too. )
The trucks each have six wheels so that makes these cars very likely to be from Set #315 from 1939. The cars from 1938 had 4 wheel trucks and white belly pans. (Someday I will add a set of the 4 wheel truck cars to the collection too. )
Northwoods,
Actually, the belly pans on the 1938 set match the color of the roof. The only cars I know of with white belly pans are the 3/16th Gilbert cars from 1940/41?
Glad I could help you find the cars.
Very nice! Beautiful example.
Jim
One item off the bucket list.
For several years I have been working on getting a complete set of each color of the sheet-metal streamlined passenger cars that American Flyer cataloged from 1936 through 1940. There are some variations within some of the colors, but so far I am happy to have even one of the variations.
With the help of NationWideLines I was able to get the final color that I have been looking for; the two tone blue streamlined cars. (Thank You sir.) It has taken me a while to find the correct engine to go with the cars, but I finally snagged one.
This is the 1621-6B coach (There are two included in the set)
and the 1622-6B Observation
The engine that is cataloged with the set is the #434 engine and tender combination which consists of the #432 engine and a #433A tender.
I'm very happy to have a reasonable example of what the set looked like.
With the engine headlight blazing and the cars all lighted it makes an impressive sight speeding along the track.
Have a great time with your trains in the New Year!
The Northwoods Flyer Collection has a display at the Merrill Historical Society for the Christmas season. (Merrill Wisconsin is about 11 miles north of me.) I have done it for the last few years and it has become a tradition for them. Its a pretty simple set up but folks seem to enjoy it. One of the local TV stations did a story on their "Collectors Christmas" exhibits. The trains got an entire 2.5 minute segment. The fellow hosting the trains is a good friend and train buddy.
This is a photo from the day I set it up.
I will try to post a link to the video. (I have limited skills; this is the best I could do.)
http://www.wsaw.com/content/news/YOUR-TOWN-MERRILL-Historical-Societys-holiday-exhibit-406291455.html
The trains are in Part 2.
Thanks for the info NWL.
handyandy I picked this caboose up last weekend at a local train show. I have tried to find info on it online, but haven't found much. Most of the 1111 cabooses have an off center cuopola. Any ideas as to when this one was made? Thanks Andy
I picked this caboose up last weekend at a local train show. I have tried to find info on it online, but haven't found much. Most of the 1111 cabooses have an off center cuopola.
Any ideas as to when this one was made?
Thanks
Andy
The earlier 1111 cabooses had the cupola centered on the roof. The earliest cabooses had black roofs on the main roof and cupola, so yours is later due to the green roof. Also you have a frame style that was used sometime after about 1922 or so (I can't recall the exact dates of the frame type, but that is the 3rd and last style of frames that were used on those cars).
I believe the off-set cupolas would be the latest variation of those cabooses. I have only a few of these in my collection and know that a boxed 1926 set has a centered cupola and my NWL caboose that dates to c. 1929 or so has a centered cupola.
M636C Nationwidelines I am not sure if a photo of this has been posted here before or not. I thought that I had posted a picture of this, but in looking through my stored photos, I did not find a copy of it. Anyway, here is a variation of a 2012 manual sempahore. Is it possible that this signal was intended for use with the British AF trains? Signal posts in the UK were always painted white and given the trouble they went to with the green tank locomotive, you would expect them to match other details as well. M636C
Nationwidelines I am not sure if a photo of this has been posted here before or not. I thought that I had posted a picture of this, but in looking through my stored photos, I did not find a copy of it. Anyway, here is a variation of a 2012 manual sempahore.
I am not sure if a photo of this has been posted here before or not. I thought that I had posted a picture of this, but in looking through my stored photos, I did not find a copy of it. Anyway, here is a variation of a 2012 manual sempahore.
Is it possible that this signal was intended for use with the British AF trains?
Signal posts in the UK were always painted white and given the trouble they went to with the green tank locomotive, you would expect them to match other details as well.
M636C
Possible, but it is an electric lighted signal and the British Flyer items were always windup sets, so I am not sure that makes sense.
I suspect that it is simply a very early item and they did not like the color, so the color did not last. I have seen some other early signals in white as well. The early un-lighted semaphores had white masts, so possibly it is a carryover from those colors.
Thanks for the info Northwoods. Here's an end view. It looks to me like the railing is painted yellow. Maybe it started out tan?
Andy,
There are quite a few variations of the #1111 5.5" Caboose. I don't have any in my collection, but the information that Schuweiler has in the Greenberg Guide says that it had a catalog run from 1916 - 1932. Are the handrails on the ends brass or painted tan? I'm going to take a guess that this is variation J. If that is accurate then it is probably from the 1925 - 1932 era. Cupolas were either centered or shifted to one side.
I am not as familiar with the equiptment from this era, but I bet NationWideLines will have more information about it.
nice find Andy, I love the litho on that. (Steamer)
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
I took the photo on the layout as my standard white background would not have worked too well on this. Here is another, more common variation of the 2012.
I suspect there might be a variation of this in orange too, but do not have a ready photograph.
Nice find. It looks like it is in great condition. I have seen one of those sets in person before and it was a great looking set.
I posted this is Sunday Photos and will post it here too. Finished tuning up / repairing 14 of these engines this weekend. Here are two of the finished products.
1941 Set #4124 Hudson J-3a Passenger Train
I don't normally seek out Gilbert's PreWar American Flyer sets, but this one was just too beautiful to pass by. And I really do need a few representative pieces of equipment from this era of production.
The 1941 catalog had a very patriotic theme, printed in red and blue.
And set #4124 appeared on page 23
It features the 570 engine and 563C tender
492T Automatic Mail Pick-Up Car
495TL Coach
496TL Coach
497TL Observation
This isn't the best photograph, but it gives an idea of how substantial the set is.
M636C The 4000 looks like a smaller version of the "George V". Assuming the paint is original (and it looks pretty good) the red numbers are significant. The London and North Western Railway painted its locomotives black with cast brass number plates on the cab side with the plate background painted bright red. I checked to see if there was an LNWR "4000" and indeed there was: a 4-4-0 exhibited at the Paris Exhibition in 1900, named "La France" and it was, generally, like a smaller version of the (1910) "George V". M636C
The 4000 looks like a smaller version of the "George V". Assuming the paint is original (and it looks pretty good) the red numbers are significant. The London and North Western Railway painted its locomotives black with cast brass number plates on the cab side with the plate background painted bright red. I checked to see if there was an LNWR "4000" and indeed there was: a 4-4-0 exhibited at the Paris Exhibition in 1900, named "La France" and it was, generally, like a smaller version of the (1910) "George V".
Thanks for the info. Based on your information, I searched google and it turns out that the 4000 La France locomotive was the 4,000th locomotive built by the Crewe Works. It was of the Jubilee Class and was later re-numbered 1926.
British Flyer Update
When I last posted pictures of the items made by American Flyer for the British market, I noted that there was an engine that I did not have an example of to photograph.
Well here it is, the elusive 4000.
It is a small engine that is smaller than the GNR locomotive.
My engine is only the second one of these 4000 engines that I have seen available for sale.
Thanks NationWideLines,
That's what I suspected, but I thought I would ask to see if its one of those things that got marketed through a source other than the catalog.
Thanks for posting the photos of other items that use the same mast. I see I have a few items to look for.
And of course there are other accessories that used that mast on the tall base.
I think it is really unlikely that you have an uncataloged variation. The reason I say this, is that the pieces that would be missing from a 2016 are all attached by nut and bolts and are easily removed. Additionally, Flyer was pretty good at cataloging all of the accessories. The same base and mast were used on several small accessories in differing colors, some of which are shown below.
2011 in green
2011 in orange
2012 in green
2016 in orange
2017 in olive green
2017 in dark green
Unless you could find some sort of period published information showing the base and mast you have with just the sign, it is only wishful thinking that you have found an unknown variation after 80+ years.
I picked this up recently because I didn't think that I had one like it.
When I got home and started looking through my references and resources I couldn't find one exactly like it. I think that what I may have is a a 2016 Automatic Danger Signal that has lost its bell, light, and finial. This is what the typical 2016 looks like.
Shuweiler lists a variation of the 2016 that is orange. So I am wondering; could I have a legitimate uncataloged item? Does anyone else have one like the orange one I have? Or is my example a 2016 that has lost some of its parts?
I really enjoy finding unusual items like the following #210 Equipment Set, with box. The individual pieces are easy to find, but the box is not. This set is in very nice condition and appears to have been well taken care of over the years.
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