Accessories
#2012 Semaphore with Light (Circa 1922-1934)
This is one of those pieces of equipment that went through a number of variations during its history. Two of those variations are shown a few pages back.
I recently came across a third variation in orange.
Here is a family photo of all three of the variations that I have in the collection.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
Time for another...
"What if.........."
So lets pretend its 1940. Gilbert is firmly in charge of American Flyer and they have been making major changes to the product line. There is a lot of Chicago Flyer inventory stacked in the warehouse. An enterprising young employee comes up with the suggestion that they start producing unit trains to use up the old inventory. Flyer begins to offer these trains to some of their department store accounts.
Here is the Tanker Special from 1940.
They have used the #401 Type XX sheet metal locomotive, the only year that the engine and matching tender have nickle plated metal parts. There are three #410 Tank Cars, and a #411 Caboose that has had its metal add on pieces nickle plated as well.
There are a few orders placed for the sets, but the largest order comes from a chain of hardware stores in North Dakota. Its a real head scratcher. Why would anyone in North Dakota be interested in oil?
What if......
In 1928 American Flyer introduced some delightful passenger cars into their Narrow (O) Gauge line. They are known as the 3180 Series (8 1/4"), the 3280 Series (9 1/2") and the 3380 Series (11"). My entry features a repaint of a set from 1934 containing the 3280 Series Cars. Most often the the 3280 Series came in two tone enameled shades of blue to blue green.
The colors tend to mimic the colors of the top of the line Wide Gauge Presidents Special.
So what if American Flyer had chosen to use the colors from the 1927 Wide Gauge Presidents Special which is lithographed in a gorgeous dark blue, and create a Narrow Gauge version of it. It might have looked something like this:
Coach
Observation
If we add a glossy 3200 series steamer and a semi-vanderbilt tender we come up with:
Edit: This photo uses the same 3326 used in the previous What if.... entry.
It looks like this running on the Blueboard Central Division of American Flyer Lines
Edit: This is a different engine pulling the train in these photos.
And just to make sure that everyone knows that this is the Presidents Special lets put the (former) President and First Lady on the inaugural run. (This was originally posted in 2012)
You have a very nice display of wide gauge (and others, of course).
bearestir,
Thanks for posting the photos of some beautiful American Flyer sets. It looks like your pieces are in exceptional condition. I know that there was a delay in some of your contributions being posted to the thread. I encourage folks to go back one page to see several of your contributions.
I agree with your observation that American FlyerO (Narrow) Gauge does seem to have endless variations. I think that is part of the fascination of collecting it for me. Folks have contributed a number of examples of undocumented variations, which makes checking the thread exciting everyday.
I admit that I am not quite as disciplined in my collecting as NationWideLines is. I have continued to pursue Wide Gauge Flyer, adding to the two sets that I inherited from family members. This is the majority of the Wide Gauge segment of my collection, although there are a few sets packed away in boxes waiting for their opportunity to be put on display.
The O Gauge portion of the collection is much larger and most of it is boxed up. I keep telling my wife that I will need to put up an addition some day when I retire so that I can have my own train museum. In the mean time NationWideLines keeps coming up with variations that I want to add to my collection.
Please keep posting more photos as you have the opportunity. I enjoy your train eye candy.
bearestir AF "O" gauge and all its seemingly endless variations ... I like that set with the 3116 with the unusual paint. I've been reading the NWF and NWL posts with all the different variations - AF's variety can be amazing. Wide gauge freight cars come in a wide array of variations (gray/black/flex trucks/rigid trucks; numerous nameplate combinations) but it is nothing like I see the two of you posting concerning different O gauge varieties.
AF "O" gauge and all its seemingly endless variations ... I like that set with the 3116 with the unusual paint. I've been reading the NWF and NWL posts with all the different variations - AF's variety can be amazing. Wide gauge freight cars come in a wide array of variations (gray/black/flex trucks/rigid trucks; numerous nameplate combinations) but it is nothing like I see the two of you posting concerning different O gauge varieties.
Although I like Wide Gauge, I discovered it too late and was too heavily invested in Flyer O gauge. Therefore, I only have a couple of Wide Gauge sets. It is nice to have you posting photos of Wide Gauge, as it is something that Northwoods and I do not have a lot of.
NWL
Another odd box: A 4017 green sand car with 6 million plates and black trucks is pictured below with the correct "black trucks" box. I have found a black truck version for every "6 million sold" plated freight car (in the common colors), but only the caboose, sand car, and stock car boxes are marked "black trucks."
bearestir American Flyer "Golden State" set with the smaller 3180 series cars rather than the normal (and longer) 3280 series cars. I bought this set in the 80's from Pat Neil (Collectible Toys and Trains) in Dallas. It is a boxed set, though the box has 10% of an AF label (no number) and 20% of a Montgomery Ward's label (and I believe this set was made specially for Ward's). After I brought the set home, Pat called me and said "read the numbers on those cars." I read them. He said "you got me (btw, it was the first and only time I got him LOL) ... I thought those were the normal cars (3280) in that color scheme but those are shorter cars. I've never seen those before." At that time, these cars weren't in Greenberg's and I still have the letter where they were going to include this variation in the upcoming book (but I don't think they did then, and I haven't looked at a Greenberg's in 20 years). This was an original owner set (owner sold it to Pat, who flipped it immediately to me). These cars also came with a 3115. Oddly, there is a set with a 3115 for sale online right now, but the cars aren't particularly clean.
American Flyer "Golden State" set with the smaller 3180 series cars rather than the normal (and longer) 3280 series cars. I bought this set in the 80's from Pat Neil (Collectible Toys and Trains) in Dallas. It is a boxed set, though the box has 10% of an AF label (no number) and 20% of a Montgomery Ward's label (and I believe this set was made specially for Ward's). After I brought the set home, Pat called me and said "read the numbers on those cars." I read them. He said "you got me (btw, it was the first and only time I got him LOL) ... I thought those were the normal cars (3280) in that color scheme but those are shorter cars. I've never seen those before." At that time, these cars weren't in Greenberg's and I still have the letter where they were going to include this variation in the upcoming book (but I don't think they did then, and I haven't looked at a Greenberg's in 20 years). This was an original owner set (owner sold it to Pat, who flipped it immediately to me).
These cars also came with a 3115. Oddly, there is a set with a 3115 for sale online right now, but the cars aren't particularly clean.
That is a set that was made for Montgomery Wards. There is a small note about the set in the Greenberg's guide.
Oddly, I found this factory painted engine with that set a couple of years ago.
Last photo post for a while: American Flyer wide gauge "Knickerbocker set." I took the first two decently lit photos, while the rest are the seller photos. The locomotive has an "Empire Express" nameplate.
The observation end came off a Marx car (image taken off someone's ebay listing)
Northwoods,
The uncataloged set is really interesting. The set is like new and looks as if it was barely used. As I stated, the motor is more common to an earlier cast iron engine, which has a reverse lever that goes up and down in the cab. There is no trailing truck due to the reverse lever being in the way. The boiler is also interesting, as it has an earlier style brass bell that is screwed on to the shell instead of a copper bell that would be pressed into the shell. As I mentioned, the engine came in its original individual box and it had a previously un-reported number on it (which I do not recall at the present time).
The tender is unique as it is one of the tenders that is punched for the standard gauge sized square plate on the sides and top, but has labels instead of plates.
The cars are also interesting and are the latest set of illini cars that I have observed, due to the gray trucks with the added spring detail at the center of the opening. The doors on the baggage are dark green (indicating 1925 and prior construction) and have the cast door handles, which were found on these up through 1927. The coach has the small, higher, arched windows that are not punched out, which indicates these are late bodies.
My guess is that this was a special set for an unknown retailer, for which Flyer used a number of odd components that were pre-existing. The only new items for 1932 found on this set are the boiler shell and the trucks.
I have seen one or two of these odd boilers (with unusual bell) over the years and at least one tender that would match the set, but have not seen any other complete sets.
Hmmmm, maybe I have a better imagination than I thought. I originally posted that "What if..." set over 5 years ago. Maybe I was channeling some long gone person from the Flyer Marketing Department.
Interesting imagination.
American Flyer actually did make an uncataloged set in 1932 that used the illini cars with a steam engine. The steam engine is somewhat unusual in that it uses a pre-1932 motor in a 1932 die cast engine shell. The motor is uncataloged, as evidenced by the numbered original box that it came in. The cars have the slightly later 1932 style grey trucks on them.
This was a boxed, buy-it-now special from ebay.
I purchased this engine on pure impulse. It was a Buy it Now on eBay and my enthusiasm outran my common sense. I have tried not to give in to buying repaints but this one was just too gorgeous to resist.
This is American Flyer's #3326. It is painted in a high gloss black which is unlike anything that Flyer used. The person who painted it did a top notch job. It looks like it had just come from the factory.
What caught my attention in the original posting on eBay was that all of the add on features had been repaired and were working. It has a headlight, a red firebox light and a ringing bell that works. I have been looking for a model like this for a while and I have rarely seen one offered that had all of the features, and when I have seen them for sale I usually lost out on the bid.
I began to imagine what it would have been like if Flyer had matched up this top of the line steam engine from the 1930's with their top of the line passenger cars from the 1920's. The Illini cars.
So in my fantasy its 1932, the first year of the Chicago World's Fair (and coincidentally the year that my parents were married). American Flyer has a pavilion at the Century of Progress exhibition. Chicago's top retail store Marshall Field and Company approaches American Flyer to produce a train set that will be available only at their flagship State Street Store. After much discussion Field's buyer and Flyer's salesman agree upon a passenger train that has never been offered before. It will match up Flyer's #3326 in a bright and shiney black paint, and a string of passenger cars in what is pretty close to Marshall Field's signature green color.
They name it The Chicagoan
Its an instant success and the 100 sets ordered by Fields disappear in the first month that the Century of Progress is open. What a lucky guy my father was, my mother knew how much he loved trains and bought one of those sets at Marshall Field and Company.
Well its a great fantasy. And its a way to explain why this beauty is running on my railroad.
They didn't make it this way but if they had.....
Over the years I have posted to a number of sites that feature tinplate trains. I have always tried to post something different on each site so that I don't replicate the information, in case there are folks who visit multiple sites. One of the sites has been going dormant for many months. One of the threads that I started over there has the title listed above. I decided to move the contributions that I made to that thread to this one. Other folks contributed to the thread as well, but I am only moving my "What if..." Pre War American Flyer postings.
After all; part of the fun of tinplate trains is indulging in "Let's Pretend"
So here is the first one:
As a collector I generally prefer the items in my collection to be in original paint and original condition. However, over the years I have seen some very interesting and fun things that people have repainted in colors that the original manufacturer never offered. They have made me stop and think "That is a great paint scheme or a clever alteration. I wish they had made it like that." I have several items in my collection that are like that. I thought it would be interesting to see what folks have done with original Pre War American Flyer equipment to alter it in color, road name, or some other change. I'm not trying to start a discussion about the ethics of changing original equipment. We all know that some items are in such poor shape they can't be restored. I will admit that I have purchased my items, I haven't moved into the aspect of the hobby of doing my own painting or alterations - yet.
Let me start out with an example. American Flyer produced a streamined steam engine in O gauge prior to the war, it is most widely recognized as the #556 Royal Blue engine. In 1941 they produced another version of it in grey as the #553 with a 4-4-2 configuration. It came in one passenger set. What if they had offered that engine other years with an expanded passenger consist? It might have looked like this:
The 553 is in its original condition and has been a part of my collection for a while.
I found the cars on eBay when someone was selling off the estate of a modeler who did some repainting, decaling and adaptations.
This is the car that really caught my attention. Flyer never produced an observation for this line of passenger cars, but this clever hobbyist designed his own.
While the quality of the work is not what I would call excellent, I was intrigued by what this set might have become if Flyer had actually produced it. If the War had not come along perhaps it would have appeared in a cataloged offering and been know as "The Scarlet Letter" or perhaps "The Scarlet Letter Carrier"
Here's an American Flyer "Sample" set - sold second hand in the late 50's/early 60's by Middleton's Train Shop at Knott's Berry Farm. In pic 3, you can see the"sample" notation on the box by the car's roof line. All boxes in this set were marked 'sample."
Thanks for the welcome to the thread.
I'm trying to put a few pictures up. Right now, every post I make requires moderator approval so sometimes my responses may be a little slow.
Clean, barely used Statesman set. I do have all the peripherals that came with the set.
Here is a set where every item has a "sample" box. I do not have the set box, unfortunately. The set was acquired used from Evan Middleton's "The Train Store" at Knott's Berry Farm (the sales ticket was in the locomotive box - which was a pleasant surprise when I received the set).
First of all let me say welcome to the thread.
Secondly, that is a beautiful example of a Lone Scout set; and its boxed too! I bet there is a story that goes along with it.
Thirdly; I have heard the explanation of the "Sold as Shopworn" designation numerous times, but like NWL I have never heard the explanation of the "Sample" stamp. The explanation is certainly plausible. Did the person who was the source of the explanation have any first hand knowledge of the workings at American Flyer? Did he have any other nuggets of information like that, and is he still accessible?
I'd be curious to see any other examples of items with the "Sample" stamp on them. The only one I have ever seen in person is the one on the Ambassador car box that I purchased recently.
The only unique thing about the car itself is the crackled paint.
So if you have any "Samples" please post them.
bearestir My understanding is that AF used the "sample" stamp for any item that left the factory as new but was not intended to be sold (though obviously they were eventually sold). Sample items had no warranty coverage. A salesman's sample would qualify for the "sample" stamp. A train intended for a display would likewise qualify. I received a slightly different explanation from another AF collector told me that AF had two types of trains that were released from the factory through "other than through the ordinary sales process): "Sold as Shopworn", which were rebuilt or repaired trains put back into the marketplace, and "Sample" which was, basically, any other train requiring a label that wasn't sold as shopworn. He listed salesman samples, items sold when someone came into the factory to make a purchase, and even items that were no longer in the catalog (e.g. someone buys a 1930 item in 1934).
My understanding is that AF used the "sample" stamp for any item that left the factory as new but was not intended to be sold (though obviously they were eventually sold). Sample items had no warranty coverage. A salesman's sample would qualify for the "sample" stamp. A train intended for a display would likewise qualify. I received a slightly different explanation from another AF collector told me that AF had two types of trains that were released from the factory through "other than through the ordinary sales process): "Sold as Shopworn", which were rebuilt or repaired trains put back into the marketplace, and "Sample" which was, basically, any other train requiring a label that wasn't sold as shopworn. He listed salesman samples, items sold when someone came into the factory to make a purchase, and even items that were no longer in the catalog (e.g. someone buys a 1930 item in 1934).
Interesting, I have never heard an explanation for "Sample" items before. The items marked "Sold as Shopworn" were supposedly sold out of the Factory Store / Repair Store and were sold without warranty, which is the reason for the "Sold As Shopworn" stamping.
I am not sure that items sold as "Sample" were sold without warranty, simply because only the boxes appear to have been marked "Sample" and if you took the item out of the box and sent it back to the factory, they would have no idea that the item was a sample.
However, I am not saying that your statement is incorrect, as there is likely nobody who can definitively say at this point, due to the passage of time.
that's a great looking car.....might have to start the search myself.
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
3219 Dump Car
The 3219 Dump Car was first cataloged in 1934 and came in a single set that year and was also offered as a separate sale item. In 1935 it was again offered as a separate sale item.
It was not shown in the 1936 or 1937 catalogs.
In 1938 it was again offered in ses and as a separate sale item. However, it came with the curly cue style coupler that year.
In 1939 it was offered again, but this time with the link coupler style.
For whatever reasons, the 1938 and 1939 dump cars are easier to find than the 1934-1935 era cars, which have the hook coupler.
One other difference between the early and late cars is the green color of the dump bin. The early cars are more of an aqua / teal color and the late cars are an apple green color.
I have searched for a nice early 3219 dump car for years, and finally found a relaively nice example.
One odd feature about my car is that the couplers were installed prior to the frame being painted, so the couplers are painted black.
The black painted couplers is something I have seen before on other Flyer cars, specifically steam engine tenders. So the black painted couplers, although somewhat unusual, is not completely unknown for Flyer.
Holy "Mack"erel!
What a great find! I wonder if those two accessories are together in any other collection? I look forward to seeing them in a photo on your layout.
Mack's Junction
Until 2 years ago, I was only aware of the Mack's Junction labeled water tower, which was shown as part of an accessory set that was cataloged by Montgomery Wards between 1922 and 1924.
While at York in the Fall of 2015, someone came up and struck up a conversation about prewar Flyer with me. After talking for a while, I was asked about the Mack's Junction water tower and then if I had seen a Mack's Junction station? I had not and was immediately curious about it. Some friends and I walked out to this genteman's car and he unpacked the station and showed it to us. None of us had previously seen this item with the Mack's Junction marking.
I told this new friend that I was interested in purchasing the item, if it was ever for sale. Fast forward 2 years and my friend offered it to me. After several days of negotiations, a price was agreed to and it was mine. Due to a last minute business trip, I asked that the shipping be delayed for a week. It finally was delivered yesterday. After a quick roof cleaning, I took the following pictures and made the following notes.
A photo of the station, with the Mack's Junction water tower in the background
One thing I noted is that the support posts for the roof of the Mack's Junction station do not have yellow paint like the other stations in my collection. Not sure if this was specific to this station or a factory glitch, as the yellow paint on my other two stations is not uniform.
LL675 just like Micky D's used to say....over One billion servered.... thanks for starting this..lots of great pics and info.
just like Micky D's used to say....over One billion servered....
thanks for starting this..lots of great pics and info.
I recall when McD's used to advertise in the Over whatever Hundreds of Millions Served, back in the 70s, prior to their reaching the Billion mark! Seems to me the earliest I can recall is over 200 Million Served.
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