Nationwide lines, awesome items especially with the boxes.
How's the green top on your 4230 signal flasher? I have 2 with bad tops while already replaced one of them. I just need to paint it.
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
NationWideLines,
Great finds! Thanks for posting them. I am particularly envious of those boxed accessories. What a treasure trove.
Station Clock #220
Flyer cataloged the Station Clock as a separate sale item in 1930 -1932,
and in the #240 Equipment Set in 1933-1934.
I have been able to find the red and the green versions over the years.
I have seen a variation that mixes the two colors several times, but they have always eluded me. (Lets just say I was always outbid.) At the Menards Toy Train Show in Eau Claire, Wi last weekend I finally snagged one at a very reasonable price.
Of course the collector gene in me is never satisfied. Once I got it home I started to wonder if there is a variation with a green base and a red standard. NationWideLines? Ahhh, the hunt never ends.
Here is a family photo.
If you check back on page 35 of this thread you will find some additional posts on the Station Clock. (Thanks again mersenne6 for compiling the index of accessories back a page.)
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
I recently purchased an early American Flyer "Metzel" type motor with the 2-piece side rods and was astounded when it arrived with a set of unusual side rods.
I was expecting the engine to have the following style of side rods
However, the engine came with the following 2-piece side rods
The second set of side rods that were photographed are significantly different than the first set, in that the connecting piece is cast instead of made out of sheet metal, the sheet metal piece that attaches to the wheel is shorter, which requires the piston rod to be longer, and the sheet metal piece is not embossed. Additionally, there is a cast piece around the portion that the pin sticks through to attach the rods to the wheel.
In an effort to date these, I compared the motors that the rods are attached to. First, I know that the all sheet metal 2 piece rods are on an engine that is in a verified 1908 boxed set, which features a 1907 328 tender with unpainted frame and a 4 window Chicago car, which is of the earliest design and has no spreader bar at the top of the car to hold the roof in place.
Using this engine/motor as a basis for a starting point, I noted the following about the motor with the unusual 2 piece side rods:
1 The motor frame features 2 holes near the bottom of each end, which could be used to attach the clip for the clip-in motor design c. 1911 or after, or could be used to attach the brackets for holding the motor in the cast iron trolley body, c. 1910.
2 - I noted that the end of the brake lever is bent to the left (inward facing) instead of being bent to the right (outward facing). All of the early motors in my collection feature the brake lever bent to the right, with late motors c. 1910 or after, featuring brake levers being bent to the left.
Therefore, I conclude that these unusual 2 piece side rods must be a late variation, of which I was unaware of. As these engines with 2 piece side rods are difficult to find, these late 2 piece rods with castings appear to be an even more unusual variation to find.
NWL
I'm Feeling Blue today
c. 1914
Picked up some accessories this week!
Here is a variation I have had for years, but never keyed in on the differing colors. These cars are the unusual Potomac sized 3180 series cars that are painted in the Golden State colors.
Note the car on the left is more greenish in color and the car on the right is more blue in color. I also noted that the car on the left has a 3282 plate instead of the 3182 plate. I can only guess that these two differences signify slightly later production of the car on the left, as the true Golden State cars do change to a more greenish color in later years.
I have been into Flyer advertising for quite some time and recently acquired some new items for the collection. I thought I would use this opportunity to show some early newspaper and magazine ads.
This one is c. 1916-1917 from a Chicago newspaper
This one is dated 1917 and is from a magazine
I believe this one is c. 1921
This one is dated December 1922 and is from the Sunday Comics
A full page of the previous ad
This one is from 1923, again a Sunday Comic page
A 2 page from the Saturday Evening Post, I believe from 1925-1926
Another Sunday Comic, from 1926 or so
This one is c. 1927. Something about selling so many subscriptions to get a free train.
Another subscription sales flyer, c. 1927 again
This one advertises a free train for selling perfume, from 1928. At first I thought this was advertising the Oriental set, but the ad shows 1090 on the side of the engine.
Similar ad for same perfume company, just a larger picture of artwork. Note the two sets differ slightly as one set includes 6 pieces of track and one includes 8 pieces of track.
Here are two ads from the Detroit News c. 1928. They are very unusual ads that feature a boy's name and address. It is believed that these boys were winners of the Backyard Railroad Contest, as my understanding is that winners of this contest (which there were numerous) had to sign away some of their rights in order to accept their prizes (based on paperwork of a known winner, one William Clapper)
Just double checked my set. The engine comes in its own box, numbered 3322 and the rest of the set is wrapped in brown paper.
Nationwidelines Set 1721 R - B&O Freight set of 1936 So I have finally been able to answer a question that I have always suspected, but could never prove. The question is "How was American Flyer Mfg. packaging (wrapping) their trains in the late Chicago era. Specifically, I wondered if their freight cars came in individual boxes or were wrapped in paper? I knew that the 6 inch cars, both passenger and freight, often were wrapped in paper or were found in cardboard sleeves with the engines typically having their own individual boxes. The larger, deluxe streamliners always came with individual boxes for the cars. My question really stemmed from the fact that if one were to put individual boxes for freight cars into the set boxes, they would not all fit in the set box. Today, I am able to satisfactorily answer that question, the 9 inch freight cars came wrapped in paper. I purchased a very complete set 1721 R from 1936 and when it came, the cars were wrapped in brown paper, with the paper having tape on it, from taping the paper around the car. That in itself, was only a clue and in looking over the paper, I was able to find the car numbers for the log car, sand car, and caboose all rubber stamped on the pieces of paper. I suspect the paper for the box car is not original and I did not get original paper with the tender either. As I indicated, the set was very complete, down to the original 3-in-1 oil sample bottle, wrapped in the the 3-in-1 American Flyer instructions. Here are photos of the set, note I did not take pictures of the box, but it was very nice. The set is a bit dirty at the present time and needs new drive wheels on the engine, but that will have to wait. As an added bonus the set came with a tank car, that must have been a separate sale item purchased by the previous owner. NWL
Set 1721 R - B&O Freight set of 1936
So I have finally been able to answer a question that I have always suspected, but could never prove. The question is "How was American Flyer Mfg. packaging (wrapping) their trains in the late Chicago era. Specifically, I wondered if their freight cars came in individual boxes or were wrapped in paper? I knew that the 6 inch cars, both passenger and freight, often were wrapped in paper or were found in cardboard sleeves with the engines typically having their own individual boxes. The larger, deluxe streamliners always came with individual boxes for the cars. My question really stemmed from the fact that if one were to put individual boxes for freight cars into the set boxes, they would not all fit in the set box.
Today, I am able to satisfactorily answer that question, the 9 inch freight cars came wrapped in paper. I purchased a very complete set 1721 R from 1936 and when it came, the cars were wrapped in brown paper, with the paper having tape on it, from taping the paper around the car. That in itself, was only a clue and in looking over the paper, I was able to find the car numbers for the log car, sand car, and caboose all rubber stamped on the pieces of paper. I suspect the paper for the box car is not original and I did not get original paper with the tender either.
As I indicated, the set was very complete, down to the original 3-in-1 oil sample bottle, wrapped in the the 3-in-1 American Flyer instructions.
Here are photos of the set, note I did not take pictures of the box, but it was very nice.
The set is a bit dirty at the present time and needs new drive wheels on the engine, but that will have to wait.
As an added bonus the set came with a tank car, that must have been a separate sale item purchased by the previous owner.
It seems that back in 2016, I answered the question. Although I did not post pictures of the setbox, my above post notes that the individual cars were wrapped in paper, with their numbers rubber stamped on the paper wrapping.
Northwoods Flyer I had a question come through Messages several days ago. I thought I would share it and my answer with you. It took me a little while to do the research "Would you have a catalog picture of set 1721? I believe engine 3322 came with this set. I would also like to know how it was packaged in the box thanks for your time." Set 1721(R) appeared in only one catalog - 1936 on page 5 It is known as the Baltimore & Ohio - freight It is headed by a Type VIII die-cast steam engine. It is difficult to identify its number because it isn't identified in the catalog copy. It has a firebox light but no ringing bell so it probably isn't a 3326, but it comes from the 32xx family (Type VIII boiler casting). The set has a 3199 tender, 3207 sand car, 3216 lumber car, 3208 auto car (fancy name for a box car) and a 3211 lighted caboose. I have not seen a boxed set so I can't help you with how the items went in the set box, but my guess is that each of the cars came in their own blue and yellow box of that era. Do you have this set and its boxes? What can you tell me about the set's history and how you got it. I hope this information helps. Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby Northwoods Flyer
I had a question come through Messages several days ago. I thought I would share it and my answer with you. It took me a little while to do the research
"Would you have a catalog picture of set 1721? I believe engine 3322 came with this set. I would also like to know how it was packaged in the box thanks for your time."
Set 1721(R) appeared in only one catalog - 1936 on page 5
It is known as the Baltimore & Ohio - freight
It is headed by a Type VIII die-cast steam engine. It is difficult to identify its number because it isn't identified in the catalog copy. It has a firebox light but no ringing bell so it probably isn't a 3326, but it comes from the 32xx family (Type VIII boiler casting).
The set has a 3199 tender, 3207 sand car, 3216 lumber car, 3208 auto car (fancy name for a box car) and a 3211 lighted caboose. I have not seen a boxed set so I can't help you with how the items went in the set box, but my guess is that each of the cars came in their own blue and yellow box of that era.
Do you have this set and its boxes? What can you tell me about the set's history and how you got it.
I hope this information helps.
I think I may have a boxed set. Will check tonight as I am at the office today.
just won this today
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
In recent years I have focused more and more on American Flyer items that were made prior to 1914. One of the most unusual items from this early era is the cast iron trolley. Shown in the 1910 catalog, it was sold in a variety of ways.
This is the only advertising image that I know of the trolley. Greenberg's guide lists these trolleys being found in yellow and green, with an unusual reddish brown variation being reported several years ago in the TCA E-train magazine. The owner of the unusual reddish brown trolley consigned his trains to auction in 2016 and his trolley finally came up for sale.
To my dismay, it was marked as restored by the auctioneer, and did not look quite like I remembered it from when I had viewed it in person. However, I registered to bid and waited and watched the trolley. The big day came up a week ago and I held my breath during the bidding. It sold for an amount that was less than I expected and I was the proud new owner.
Some observations about the trolley:
It looks like it is somewhat lopsided (tilting toward one end). It does sit exactly how it looks and the issue is related to the brackets that hold the trolley motor to the body. There is a bracket mounted to each end of the motor, on which the body rests, with the windup key actually holding the motor in place.
I have not examined if the brackets can be adjusted to make it sit level, but I suspect due to the tight tolerance of lining up the key hole in the motor to the key hole in the body, that there is little that I can do.
I reached out to my friend after the listing came up, to ask him about the item being listed as restored. My friend indicated that the motor was quite rusty when he acquired it. After cleaning the rust off the item, my friend indicated that he oversprayed the casting in the same color that it was originally. He indicated that the overspray color matched the color on the inside of the trolley and that the inside had not been cleaned or repainted. He also indicated that there were traces of gold paint on the clerestory, so he added some gold trim to the casting.
My friend indicated that he added the trolley pole and modeled it after the 1933 World's Fair Century of Progress trolley from 1933. At first I thought I might remove the trolley pole, but after receiving the item, I think it looks ok and will leave it for now.
The one major thing that I have already done to the trolley is to repair the motor. My friend indicated that he had made no motor repairs and that when he got the item, the motor was packed full of sand. He indicated that he thought it had been in a sandbox for some time prior to his purchase.
In examining the motor, I noted a number of things wrong with it. The major item, was that the geared axle had loose wheels, which could spin freely on the axle, regardless of if the axle was spinning. This was a major issue to me, as how could the trolley possibly move reliably with loose drive wheels. All of the other early motors I have seen are equipped with threaded wheels and the geared axle shafts are threaded for the wheels, so that the wheels only move with the axle movement. I also noted that the geared axle was quite rusty and the speed governor was missing. Since there were holes for the speed governor's shaft, I attributed the missing speed governor to being another sign that the motor had been taken apart at one time.
Knowing I had some parts from an early junker motor, I dug out my box of parts and discovered that I had a good geared axle shaft with threads and a set of threaded drive wheels. I also found a good speed governor in the box.
So this morning, I carefully took the motor apart and installed the new geared axle shaft, the speed governor, and the threaded drive wheels. The motor runs good.
I have discovered over the years that junk parts are invaluable. I have now repaired 3 early engines using a single junker motor. A couple of years ago, I replaced a broken brake lever on my c. 1912 0-4-2 locomotive, last year I swapped a bad gear in a c. 1908 engine and made it run, and now the repairs to the trolley. All from a single junk motor.
got these this week from a friend
I believe you are right on target with your conclusions. The 1931 Cumberland catalog picture conforms almost perfectly to the one you found recently with the black trucks and brass and brass painted air tanks. It looks like Flyer was doing their best in trying to keep in line with the catalog picture. Next it appears that they might have anticipated a shortage in the black trucks and transitioned to grey. I noticed in 1930 catalog description of the Man O War cars brass air tanks are noted. The description of these same cars no longer contained a reference to brass tanks in the 1931 descripion of the Cumberland. It may be a clue that changes were anticipated.
As for the gold painted tanks, they were obviously taken from the stock used on the 1931 Paul Revere set which is also offered in the 1931 catalog. The second Flyer set I recieved as a starting collector was a Paul Revere set given to me by neighbor. It had been passed to her family from her brother who had recieved it as child. It was exactly as described in the 31 catalog, except instead of two 3282 pullmans and a 3281 observation it had a 3280 club car a pullman and an observation. All the cars had Golden State plates and gold painted cast air tanks. Thus it adds to your statement that 1931 was the transition year.
Also I would have to agree that the boxed 1931 Cumberand in my TCA article would have been later in the year. I do have photos of a couple more 1931 Cumberands with boxes (no set box). Both of those sets are like the later boxed set except instead of all three cars having the large American Flyer plate, one of the cars had a Jeffersonian plate.
Bob D
A number of years ago Bob D wrote an excellent article in the TCA quarterly relating to the American Flyer red 3380 series passenger cars.
Recently I found an inconsistency in the article, as there appears to be a transistion period between 1930 and 1931 that is not covered in the article.
First I will show the 1930 Man O War set.
This set features the cars with American Flyer plates over the windows, brass air tanks, black trucks, and no window shades on the window inserts. See below
Bob D's article shows a 1931 boxed Cumberland set, which features cars with gray trucks, green cast iron air tanks, American Flyer plates over the windows, and window inserts with shades. The cars are similar to the one below, but with American Flyer plates over the windows and correct number plates.
Recently, I found two sets that represent the transition between the 1930 Man O War and 1931 Cumberland sets that were described in the TCA Quarterly article.
The first set I found, came with a 3300 engine, no tender, and the 3 cars shown below. Note that the cars feature American Flyer plates and correct number plates, black trucks, window inserts with no shades, and most interesting, a mix of gold painted cast iron air tanks (baggage and observation) and brass air tanks (coach). I believe this set also to be a correct 1931 Cumberland set, based on how I found it. Given the features, it appears that it is earlier production than the set shown in Bob D's article.
The next set I found features gray trucks, American Flyer plates and correct number plates, the gold painted cast iron air tanks, and window inserts with no shades.
I noted that Bob D's article did not cover the 3380 cars with the gold painted air tanks and that although these cars are mentioned in the Greenberg's guide, there is little detail relating to this variation.
Based on the sets I found, it appears that the gold painted cast iron air tanks represent the transition period from brass air tanks to cast iron air tanks, with some of the sets featuring both cast iron and brass air tanks and some sets featuring either black or gray trucks, but the sets with the gold painted cast iron air tanks featuring window inserts without shades.
Here are the 1930 Man O War and 1931 Cumberland sets in my collection
Bob D I really love all this Flyer information. You and Northwoods need to write your own book. I think we have corresponded before concerining the cars for the Cumberland set. This time your 3301 has caught my eye. As is always the case it looks like you could use some more rods. I am in desperate need of an original crank like the one shown in your photo. I would gladly trade an entire set (rt and left) of reproduction drive rods, valve gear, and crank for your original crank. You would still have to find brass hexhead rivets and screws. Let me know if you have any interest in the trade. The original crank simply pulls out of the wheel. On another subject I have no information on the boxes with sample stamped on them. However the Jeffersonian marked car with the 3280 series numberbelongs with the Cumberand set. It is highly possible that it was included with some build-out Ambassador sets. Incidently the 3301 tender had the type 9 coupler only in 1931. Keep up the great work, Bob D
I really love all this Flyer information. You and Northwoods need to write your own book. I think we have corresponded before concerining the cars for the Cumberland set. This time your 3301 has caught my eye. As is always the case it looks like you could use some more rods. I am in desperate need of an original crank like the one shown in your photo. I would gladly trade an entire set (rt and left) of reproduction drive rods, valve gear, and crank for your original crank. You would still have to find brass hexhead rivets and screws. Let me know if you have any interest in the trade. The original crank simply pulls out of the wheel.
On another subject I have no information on the boxes with sample stamped on them. However the Jeffersonian marked car with the 3280 series numberbelongs with the Cumberand set. It is highly possible that it was included with some build-out Ambassador sets.
Incidently the 3301 tender had the type 9 coupler only in 1931.
Keep up the great work, Bob D
Bob D,
Sorry that photo of the 3300 is an older photo and I believe I sold that engine, as I have upgraded my collection to include two 3300 engines with original side rods. Good luck on finding the piece you need.
I have been meaning to update the posts on the Ambassador type cars, as I finally figured out the correct cars for the 1931 set with the 3300. It took many years of searching, but I found a set of cars with a 3300 engine and they are a transition car, between early and late cars, with some interesting features.
Was at the local train show today and picked up a box of early switches. This box would date to c. 1915 to c. 1919 at the latest, due to the early label.
The box was empty when I got it, but I had an early set of switches from the appropriate era to go in the box.
Here is a vintage stereoview photo (showing 1/2 of the stereoview card). The boy in the photo is playing with a c. 1922-1924 Illini/Columbia set. I cannot say for certain which set he is playing with, but since there is no true observation car shown in the photo, it has to be prior to the introduction of observation cars in 1925. Unfortunately, one only gets the head-on view of the 3020, but the cars are clearly the American Flyer Illini or Columbia cars.
The only published information concerning American Flyer pre-war accessories was the latter part of the Greenberg Book on American Flyer Wide Gauge. The book has been out of print for some time. In addition, the information about the accessories was long on catalog cut illustrations and short on actual photographs as well as documentation of variations.
Over the years of this threads existence a number of individuals have provided a great deal of information/photographs of most of the American Flyer accessories covering the period from approximately 1920 to 1938. Since the information is distributed across the 70 pages of this thread (the page count as of 3 March 2018) hunting for information concerning an accessory can be rather time consuming.
Below is a list, by current page count/format, of all of the posts concerned with American Flyer accessories. The codes P and T are short for Pictures and Text.
1 S gauge – 718 – Mail Car, 722 Bubble tower, 23791 Cow on track, 760, 759 highway flasher
758A –Sam the Semaphore Man, 774 Rotating Beacon, 766 Animated Station, 779 Drum Loader, 755 Talking Station, 789 Baggage Smasher, 596 Water Tower, 771 Stockyard (P)
104 station late version – P,
2 #97 long base freight shed – P,T Multiple Posts,
#104, #96 Stations – P,T
3 Text – brief descriptions of roof color combinations for 96,104, 97,98,99,105, and 107
Stations
Tunnels – P,T Multiple posts
Comparison of Lithographed Freight Stations – AF vs Other manufacturers
4 #2020 Water Tower P,T - multiple posts
#235 Water Tank Set P,T
5 #234 Suburban Station P,T,
#93 Suburban Station P,T
6 #92/214 Watchman’s Tower P,T
#236 Crossing Set P,T
#2109, #2110 Single and Double Arm Lamp Posts – P,T – color and base variations
7 #96, 104 stations – extensive history P,T
#91 and #586 passenger platforms – P,T
#M93 and #93 Freight stations – P,T
#95 and #97 Freight stations extensive history P,T
#97 and #98 Long Base Freight stations – extensive history P,T
#97,#98,#99 passenger stations extensive history P,T
#107 passenger station P,T
#100, #101 passenger stations P,T
#M90 and #90 extensive history P,T – multiple posts on this page
Hafner station for comparison with #90 P,T
#102 Central station P,T
#214 – variation P,T
8 #2218/4218 Block signal color variations P,T – multiple posts this page
#234 Suburban station P,T
#2110 Street light P,T
Some Other Accessories
2009/2010 Arc Light
The 2009 - single light and 2010 - double light lamp posts were first cataloged in 1921 and were listed through 1926
The lamp has a cast iron base and a brass pole. The earliest version of this lamp has a cast hook at the base of the filigree arc through which the wire for the light was threaded. On later versions of the lamp the hook was eliminated and the wire just went straight to the lamp housing.
AF #2009 Arc Lamp with cast hook at base of arc filigree.
Whistling Billboards 2029/577
American Flyer first cataloged their whistling billboards in 1938.
The first billboard had a full color illustration of a high speed steam engine
In 1939 the catalog number for the billboard changed to 577, the shape of the base changed to a simpler stamping, and the billboard was attached to the base in a different manner. The ad changed as well and became an ad for the Royal Portable Typewriter
...and in 1940 the catalog number remained the same but the ad changed to one for the Barnum and Bailey Circus
Early Stations - M250
In the first years of its existence American Flyer relied on a variety of German toy manufacturers for their accessory lineup. Starting in the late teens Flyer began replacing German products with their own.
American Flyer's top of the line station of German manufacture was the M250. While no manufacturer has been specifically identified for this station and while I have never seen an example of a boxed M250 I think this station has to have been produced by Bing because their stations are the only German stations I've ever seen that come close to matching the catalog illustration.
Flyer Catalog Illustration
Bing Station
Bing offered this station in their catalogs from approximately 1912-1928. The station pictured above dates from the mid-1920's. In the earlier years, the colors of the Bing station were more varied and vibrant and the main building had a two tone split in the painted brick along the lines of the illustration in the American Flyer catalog.
Its nice to have all of the family photos together in one spot. Great work NWL and mersene6. My contribution is photos of the #410 tank/oil car from the Gilbert era. This was originally posted back in 2013. The cars both have the link and pin couplers.
410 Variations
Sometimes variations turn up in unexpected places. I was going through some of the items that I have stored and I came across something that I had not noticed before.
I have two versions of the # 410 tank car.
Since you have put all of the large American Flyer tank cars in one spot in the thread I thought I'd go ahead and repost a picture of one not in your photo compilation. I had originally included this image in a discussion on this thread back in 2010.
The black is lithography and it is an overprint of the standard car. If you hold the car so that light reflects from the surface you can see the American Flyer lettering underneath the black. An inspection of the surface suggests there might have been some "picking" of the original lithography. If so then this overprint might have been an attempt at salvaging the print run.
After posting the last photo, I realized that I don't believe I have posted a comprehensive listing of American Flyer 9.5 inch tank cars and I am not sure that anyone else has either.
The Flyer tank cars are one of the few freight cars that experienced significant color variations over the years (as opposed to the box car and sand cars, which featured only slight variations in color over the years).
So I thought this might be helpful. Will start with the lithographed cars.
This is the first variation c. 1924-1927
This next version is from c. 1927 and is a late variation, as it has the 1928 style trucks and 1928 style frame. Note the frame is punched for the steps of the later cars and the body of the tank is punched for the ladder and the name plates.
Next up is the 1928 only tank car, which features a dark blue tank, again on the new frame with black trucks and name plates.
This next tank car is c. 1929, as it still features black trucks.
This next tank is c. 1930, as it features the same early truck style as the 1928 and 1929 tanks, only painted gray this time.
The next tank is from 1931 and came with a 1931 Smokey Mountain Set.
These next two tank cars are c. 1932 and 1933, not sure of the exact dates of each, but they still feature the brass name plates, although the company must have ran out of the number plates. I can only guess at the dates, as Flyer phased out the brass identification plates in favor of decals during this period. I would suspect the tank car on the black frame is the earlier of the two cars as it closely matches the 1931 car pictured earlier.
The following cars date to the c. 1934 to 1937 era due to the truck and coupler styles. Unfortunately, I can only pin a couple of these cars to specific dates/sets. I will detail these as I post the pictures.
The yellow tank car is commonly associated with the 1936 Hiawatha deluxe freight set.
The dark green tank / dark green frame came with my 1937 Hudson Freight set.
The rest of these cars are just within the range of 1934 to 1937, they came to me individually, so I cannot comment on specific sets that they may have came with.
Light Green Tank on Blue Frame
Dark Green Tank on Blue Frame
Light Green Tank on Dark Green Frame
1938 marked the sale of American Flyer to AC Gilbert and the cars recieved new trucks and couplers, with the curly knuckle couplers being only featured in 1938. The earliest of the cars were left over 1937 cars that had their earlier style couplers and trucks pried off and new trucks and couplers installed. This is evidenced by the earlier color schemes and damage to the cars, with the new trucks/couplers featuring original attaching rivets.
This item is an interesting item due to its unusual color variation, apparently a paint sample. Black tank is original with new decals.
The silver and green tank is the most common 1938 tank car found and the 1939 car is of similar colors, with the later style couplers.
Update - After reviewing the many photos, I noted one obvious change in the progression of the production. The dome at the center top of the tank appears to change from brass to nickel in between the 1936 and 1937 time frame, due to the differences between my 1936 yellow tank car from the Hiawatha set and the 1937 tank car from my Hudson set.
Here is another tank car variation. I have had this one for a while, but only recently upgraded a very mangled frame with a similar, but non-mangled original frame.
This dates to approximately 1936-1937.
That tender was first introduced in 1931, and came with the 3300 engine.
In 1931 only, this tender came with gloss black paint. This may also be the only year when it came with brass plates instead of labels, but I am not certain about that.
Type VI Tender 1931-1935, 1938-1940
Over on another tinplate forum Steve Eastman, I, and a number of other folks have been discussing this tender and its variations. I thought it would be of interest to a number of folks here as well. I have Steve's permission to quote his entries from the other thread and to share the photos that he posted.
Steve:
"In American Flyer's unusual numbering format, 427 is a combination of a 425 loco and 426 tender. The 426 tender looks so out of place behind this nice locomotive. It looks like a silly afterthought. The one in the Schuweiler book has black trim, mine has copper. Both are correct. I actually like the black trim better.
This common 421 tender would have looked so much better.
Steve"
Me:
Robert S. Butler posted: Ah me...what can I say. I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.
Ah me...what can I say. I've always thought that engine/tender combination looked pretty good.
I agree Robert. Although I have to say that in Steve's photos there is something about the tender that makes it look undersized, even the photo from the Greenberg Guide. I looked at photos that I took of my engine and tender from different angles and I don't think it looks bad at all.
"Greg, my tender has the small 3/16/type trucks and wheels. In the picture, yours look taller.
"Just looked in the 39 & 40 catalogs. It appears in 39, the tender had tall trucks and in 40, it had low trucks.
Steve,
I think that is what makes it look different and a bit undersized. This combination comes from the transition era to Gilbert designed equipment and I am sure Flyer was trying to use up leftover Chicago Flyer equipment. I went back to the Greenberg Guide and read the information on the Type VI tender. (page 70) "...The Type VI appeared in the catalog for the last time in 1940, again in the No. 27 combination - but now equipped with Type XIII 3/16 scale freight trucks. These tenders have rubber-stamped sides."
So there is the new thing I learned about Flyer for today. And now you can identify your engine and tender as the 1940 model.
Greg, in your photo, it's hard to tell, but the trucks look something like the XII style which is consistent with the artwork in the 39 catalog. Page 70 in Schuweiler's book shows a 426 with gray VIII style trucks. I have that tender with another loco and height wise looks much better with the 425 loco.
Steve
I also have the Type VI tender with the type VIII grey painted trucks.
I have it paired with a 332X locomotive
I also have the other Type VI tender that I have matched up with the #425 locomotive. It has type XII trucks. This tender was an early purchase in my O gauge collecting phase, when I was not quite as concerned with condition. I just wanted an example of a specific piece of equipment.
So I am a bit suspicious of this tender as being original equipment; especially when you see how the trucks are fastened to the frame, all of the holes drilled in the frame and the odd looking coupler.
I think it might be time for an upgrade on this particular tender.
So we have identified at least three different variaions of the Type VI Tender
Here is the cabinet fully loaded.
click on the image to see a larger photo.
I have wanted to display sets, in their original form, in a dust free environment, for a while. Last fall I purchased this display cabinet and finally installed new LED light fixtures yesterday. I put the shelves in and the doors on and began loading it with trains this morning.
The cabinet is great for displaying these sets. It is 80 inches long and 24 inches deep. On the bottom are the 4 airplanes that American Flyer marketed c. 1928-1930, the shelf above contains a pristine Major Leaguer set from 1931 and the Zephyr that was presented to the head of the Chicago, Burlington, & Quincy RR in 1934 from American Flyer MFG. The second shelf up contains a Railroader set from 1931 and a Clipper set c. 1930/31. I have one more shelf to load and am not sure what will go there, but I am thinking the 1927 and 1928 Blue Bird sets, side by side with all accessories.
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