Malcolm,
I see that you were able to post the photo and questions over on the OGR Tinplate Forum. I hope you won't mind that I am re-posting your photos here along with my response.
What you have is the Roadside Flashing Signal.
The Roadside Flashing Signal was given two numbers. Both the 2230 and the 4230 were cataloged 1928 - 1935. They are not two different sizes. The difference in the numbering indicated the size of the track that was included in the box. The 2230 is for Narrow Gauge track and the 4230 is for Wide Gauge Track. It is very difficult to find the lighted head in an undamaged condition.
Enjoying the World's GreatestHobby
Northwoods Flyer
The Northwoods Flyer Collection
of
American Flyer Trains
"The Toy For the Boy"
I am glad you found your way to the thread. What did I say on the other forum that led you here? Nothing bad I hope.
You have discovered a shortcoming of this thread. It can be very difficult to search. We had an index at one time, however with some formatting upgrades it became obsolete. Maybe in retirement I can finally generate a complete index again.
Edit: Mersenne6 produced an index for accessories back on page. Thanks for reminding me.
Flyer's Pre War accessories do tend to be quite large because they were designed to go with either Wide Gauge or Narrow Gauge. If you can provide a few more details about your accessory we may be able to identify it and give you more information about it. If you do a Google Images search for American Flyer Prewar Crossing Signal you will find quite a number of photos. Perhaps you will see the one you have.
Here are a few:
There is some information about how to post photos to the forums at the very top of the forums page. If that doesn't work you could send a photo to my by email and I can post it.
Good Luck, its nice to have you with us.
Enjoying the World's Greatest Hobby
Unfortunately it is tough to tell you anything based on your description without a photo.
Is it a gate, bellringing signal, etc.? Colors?
Hello from a new member. I've just joined this forum and subscribed to this thread beacuse my Lionel interests have expanded to include AF O gauge, which of course means prewar. Some comments by Northwoods on another forum led me here.
I've got a question I hope someone can help with. This thread has 74 pages and what I'm looking for could be anywhere. Is there a way to search this thread ?
I'm looking for information on an AF crossing signal accessory that showed up in a Lionel collection. It's an 8.5 inch tall crossing signal. It makes a Marx or Lionel signal look small, so I'm wondering if it was a wide gauge accessory.
I'd like to ask someone to tell me about this signal and whether it is an unusual or rare item. But I can't figure out how to include a photo with a reply on this forum. Please help .
"ROARING DIE CAST MONSTER OF THE IRON PIKE...
TYPIFYING SUPER-POWER IN THE ROCKY MOUNTAINS"
Awesome statement - great looking sets!
Regards, Roy
NationWideLines,
Those are both beautiful sets coming from both ends of Flyer production in O gauge. Thanks for posting them.
Back a page I posted Set #4009 from 1940 - Northern Pacific Passenger
Its partner on the same catalog page in 1940 is:
Set #4010 Northern Pacific Freight Train
I was fortunate to get the pieces for this set with their boxes; some of which are in rough condition.
Here are some photos of the siblings together.
That's a great looking set
Dave
It's a TOY, A child's PLAYTHING!!! (Woody from Toy Story)
Here is another set that is not often seen.
Set 1326 RCT - Yukon from 1935.
I think that one of the reasons that this set is not often seen, is that collectors have the urge to separate these cars from this engine and put them with the Aeolus streamline engine.
This set came to me as engine, tender and 3 coaches. For the purposes of this picture, I put the observation car from my Aeolus set with the coaches that came with the engine and tender.
NWL
Set #14 - 1908!!!
Sometimes life surprises one. I know I was surprised to see this set being offered for sale.
The seller indicated that this set was his grandfather's set, so I am the first person outside of the original owner's family to own it.
Not pictured, but included is the original box for this item.
As the heading indicates, this is Set #14 from 1908!!!!
This set represents some of the earliest American Flyer production.
The gold stripe below the cab window on the engine is very unusual. When I purchased this set, I thought it was yellow, but upon examining it, after it arrived, I discovered it was gold and not yellow.
Based on this set and others in my collection, I have come to the conclusion that the blue framed items are the earliest 1908 production. I say this because 4-window Chicago cars typically have a brace at the top of the body to hold the roof on. However, none of the blue famed coaches I have observed to date have these braces. This becomes even more evident in the coach with the red highlights on the blue frame not having the brace, but an identical car with red highlights, but on a brown/maroon frame and still the small 1908 couplers having the brace.
Ahhh. Now I understand.
Welcome to the Tinplate side.
Northwoods - I haven't dabbled into PreWar...yet. Now I want a 425.
Fife,
I made an edit to the posting on the #4009 set above. The engine is a #425 - 2-6-4, not a #423 which is a 2-4-4. Which wheel arangement do you have? Could you post a photo? Sorry if I created any confusion; American Flyer's numbering system is confusing enough as it is.
You are welcome. I hope you enjoy it. Its a powerful looking engine. I also hope it encourages you to add more Pre War Flyer to your stable.
The 420 is a nice engine too. A good all purpose engine and a great puller.
Northwoods Flyer - Thanks to you, I must have a 423.
Set #4009 from 1940
Northern Pacific Passenger Train
This is another of my "assembled" sets. It comes from the Gilbert era of production, and just before toy production was shut down by the government and factories started supporting the war effort.
I purchased the engine first.
I actually have three #425s (edit: which are 2-6-4s) in the collection, and this one is by far the one in the nicest condition and the best running of the three. (edit: I also have 2 #423s which are 2-4-4s but both have been tinkered with; neither of which runs consistently - retirement projects.)
The three apple green cars joined the collection through another purchase.
You can only wonder what Gilbert would have created if they had continued to produce the O gauge line after the war. Of course the samples of 3/16" O gauge equipment were a fortaste of the S gauge line to come.
1. The name on the letter board, “Baltimore & Ohio” and the car number “1107” have a block of yellow/brown around them and all of the yellow lines defining doors and window frames are have a highlight shadow of yellow/brown.
2. The thickness of the yellow/brown highlights around each of the lines is not uniform nor are the yellow/brown boxes surrounding the car numbers.
Here are some more 1107 variations.
I should note that the above two photos are different sides of the same car. One side is more grayish and the other more purplish.
The photo below is the same litho in blue.
All of the above cars are c. 1918, as the door windows are not punched out on the 1107 cars in 1918 only, until around the mid 1930s, when again the door windows are not punched out on some cars.
Thanks Roy. For me the hunt for the right piece, in an acceptable condition (operator quality) is one of the most enjoyable aspects of the hobby. And the opportunity to discuss and compare the items that are posted and share information and experiences is another part of this hobby that I enjoy.
It was nice to meet you and chat at York in October. Maybe the next time we can go out for one of those adult beverages you keep talking about.
Pics, discussion, and the beautiful condition of your collections - outstanding!
As I mentioned a few posts back I have been putting together a set of the green litho orange roofed passenger cars. I have the cars with the rounded roofs with ventilator bumps. The set I am working on has the squared roofs with ventilator bumps.
I am still looking for the baggage car for the square cornered roof version. I once saw this set with red roofs and passed on it because I thought the roofs were repainted. It turns our that it is a legitimated variation. Does anyone have a photo of those cars?
American Flyer Set #842
As a follow up to the discussion concerning car and sleeve numbers I checked this set for the way the contents were packaged and labeled.
Boxed Set #842
... and the set contents
A check of each of the cars and their associated packing sleeves indicates the following:
Gondola - #1113
The sleeve is marked "1113" it is faint and may not show up well in the image but it is legible. The car has the number "311131" which amounts to 1113 buffered by a 3 and a 1 on either end.
Hopper Car #1126
The sleeve is marked "1126" and the hopper is numbered "311267". The numbering is like the gondola with the car number buffered with a number before and after the actual car number.
Tank Car #1128
...and here's where it gets interesting. The sleeve has "1128" and the car is obviously numbered "1228". It's long been known that American Flyer had different body numbers for 4 wheel and 8 wheel versions of the same car litho treatment. It is also well known that Flyer didn't make a hard and fast rule concerning this kind of numbering and it is very easy to find bodies with an 8 wheel number on a 4 wheel frame and conversely. The tank car is just another instance of this practice.
Caboose #1127
In this case the storage sleeve and the car have the same number - "1127"
So, in this set we have two cars with the 4 wheel ID buffered with a prefix and a suffix number, a car with an 8 wheel number body on a 4 wheel frame, and a car with a 4 wheel number with no prefix or suffix number.
As NWL noted above with respect to the sleeve number 1228 - it is a match for the 8 wheel version of the Sinclair tank car. This would suggest that the sleeves 1226 and 1227 correspond to the 8 wheel version of the hopper car and the caboose.
As for the engine and tender - the tender sleeve is missing but the sleeve for the engine is numbered 730. This engine is the sheet metal Hiawatha with a mechanical whistle and is listed in the Greenberg guide.
NWL no need to apologize for rain. You make a good point and while Flyer did give the number 3198 to two different engines it does not seem likely that they would have done this sort of thing on a regular basis - it would have been a nightmare with respect to bookkeeping and inventory control. Under these circumstances a later collector/dealer repackaging as opposed to original packing makes more sense.
I too have a boxed champion freight set headed by a tinplate Hiawatha which has all of the cars and the engine in cardboard sleeves. If I remember correctly all of the sleeve numbers are legible. I'll pull it out and let you know what I find. It will be interesting is to see if I get a match for any of the other numbers of the cardboard sleeves listed above.
Now for something different. Here are some photos of a flat car that I recently acquired. It is a bit unusual, due to it having 2 brake wheels and 2 cross-members on each side. I am guessing the car dates to c. 1933-34, as it still has the steps that are not part of the frame. Another oddity about the car is that the cross-members are punched for the plates, but have decals instead of plates. I have not observed any of the 9.5 inch flat cars with all of these features.
I am not sure if this would be a 3206 Machinery Car or 3216 Log Car, as the bottom of the car is only marked with the Insp. 2 lettering and no car number.
Mersenne6,
I hate to rain on your parade, but I suspect what you have are sleeves from Champion freight cars mated with your cars. I say this because I have a 1228 sleeve with a Champion freight set and I can get one of those cars to slide into it. There are several other sleeves in the setbox I have, with 1200 numbers on them, I just cannot make out the other numbers beyond the first 2 numbers.
I would find it very surprising if Flyer used the same number on two different cars during the same era.
Since you did not acquire your cars as a complete set or with a setbox, I suspect that a previous collector or seller mated the sleeves with those cars.
Although the Greenberg's guide does not list numbers in the 1226 to 1230 range, other than the 1228, which is identified as the Texaco lithographed tank car, I suspect that those numbers were used with 8-wheel champion freight cars.
I would suspect that those cars date to around 1933. I checked the 1932-1934 price lists and they do not specifically break out a set like that. They list differing passenger cars, but give few details, other than length.
I had to go back to page 13 and read the information that was posted there. I thought I would re-post it here to keep the information together.
Uncataloged Set
American Flyer is well known for assembling sets, for stores and other outlets, that did not appear in their catalog. This has created some interesting variations and unusual sets that show up. I have acquired most of the items in my collection one or two pieces at a time. Recently I came across a full set that I recognized from Greenberg's book. In the book it is listed in the passenger car section. Its the set on the right.
Yes, they fit just fine - no binding or rubbing to speak of.
Those car sleeves are very interesting. I have never seen sleeves for that type of car. I have only seen sleeves on the champion freights and tin streamliners. However, only one of your sleeve numbers match a champion car, which is the 1228 Texaco tanker.
My only question would be, "do the cars fit in the sleeves ok?" as those are tall cars.
...and here's my first contribution to the thread for 2019.
American Flyer Uncataloged Set ca. 1933-37
A good 15 or so years back I saw the sad remains of an American Flyer set on a table at one of the local train meets. It consisted of 3 un-numbered passenger cars, a baggage, a coach, and an observation in litho green with orange painted roofs and Type VIIIa trucks. The set was headed by a #614 sheet metal engine and 4 wheel tender.
A couple of years after that I found the three cars, complete with cardboard shipping sleeves for sale at another meet. I purchased the cars and asked about the engine and tender. Much to my dismay I learned that the owner of the set had sold the engine/tender separately at a different meet that same year.
A few years after that and Northwoods Flyer began this thread and way back on page 13 of the current way the pages are counted, he and I had a discussion about these cars because he had turned up a set as well. This past December I finally found a #614 locomotive and tender in the same condition as the cars. I still don't know a thing about the set, the set number, or, if it was a special for a large customer, who that customer might have been but for the record below is a picture of the set
Below are the three cars with cardboard storage sleeves. I had assumed the sleeves designated the car numbers but after discussion with NWL (see below) I think they just happen to be sleeves someone attached at a later time.
The reason for the large year range with respect to guessing year of manufacture is that the 614 showed up in 1933 and the car trucks are estimated to have been made between 1933 and 1938.
Happy 11th Northwoods - you've done a great job over the years. So 11 .....Hmmmm
Well, Here's Set #5 - The Viking
....and here's Set #6
Which do a good job of summing to 11.
Northwoods,
I enjoyed having you visit to see the trains and traveling to York with you. The forum is a great source of information and I too have enjoyed meeting a number of different people through it.
Although I am sure I could post a great picture of an unusual Flyer item, I would rather post this photo of the layout.
In November, I traveled to the Los Angeles area and saw a superb Standard Gauge layout that had lots of trees, figures, and vehicles on it. Then in late November, some friends visited and commented that my layout needed some trees. So I have been purchasing trees in recent weeks.
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