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Posted by West Coast S on Friday, May 26, 2006 12:38 PM
Morning Tom and all, round of the Juan Valdez if you please.

To today's business:

Trolleyboy..

Seems to me that the Canadian roads had perhaps some bias against the SD series in favor of a domestic design and supplier. I base my unfounded idea on the fact the SP too had lines with rail down to 75lbs. and routes with lighty construction timber trestles.
SD's could be customed ballasted and several weight reducing fuel tank options were available. Sure would have looked good Maroon and Grey with the Beaver Crest

Interurban issue..While researching some SN details, the name Niles woodworking and manfacturing, a Niles, Ca. Based builder from the early 1900's as the builders of a certain SN class of wooden combine and trailers used on the third rail lines around
Yuba City ,all were out of service by 1937..Rob, ever heard of this builder?

Theodorebear..

I would suspect that these cars are long gone, BNSF has made major changes to the yard and service area since I was last there, I don't think they would have gone unoticed by officials.

The vast majority were of the channel design, all had the usual decay associated with unused equiptment, some had likely been in MW service for the past fifty years at that time. The re-sheathed baggage car would have been illegal to move as the brake beams were hanging loose and one coupler was missing.

Interesting side note, during this period the SP's Beaumont wrecking train contained a vertible hodge podge of Harriman heavyweight Construction, diners, coaches, RPO's, baggage cars, other then MW paint and some window modifications it could have been 1930 again. Odd, Several years ago, I spied the same Harriman Diner yet again, in storage at Edward's AFB. There's a story there waiting to be discovered..

A big to do to CM3 and AL as well.

Ok Tom, duty calls, I shall be back later.

Dave




SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, May 26, 2006 11:43 AM
G'day!

A late start for Moi on this final day of the work week (for many) and the start of a loooooong weekend for most! [tup]

Just a reminder for those residing in the U.S. to take a moment or three to remember those who gave of themselves in war and peace to help make our lives more secure. [tup]

We know that Memorial Day is more than another day at the mall, auto races, sports events and picnics. All of that is fine, providing we don't forget those who helped make it possible!

A rather busy night, followed by an early start has turned our "doldrums" into an active-affair here at the "Feast or Famine Bar 'n Grill" these past few days! [tup]

I see the comments span the gauntlet of subject matter, with recognitions abounding along with some fine ENCORE! material. [tup]

Acknowledgments to: trolleyboy Rob - Theodorebear Ted 'n coalminer3 CM3 for the most recent Posts . . . along with THANX for the rounds and quarters! [tup]

Mosquitoes in WVA somehow doesn't compute - but I know they are everywhere. The absolute largest I've ever seen were in Alaska! Yes, on the Kenai peninsula back in 1959-60. They were the size of Hummingbirds and were as aggressive as some of our Gals here at the bar! [swg] Peri***he thought, eh[?] Which [?] Mosquitoes of course! [swg]

On reflection, it appears that my 4 part ENCORE! of my 2005 Canadian Rail Journey has gone over somewhat like the proverbial lead balloon. A tough crowd at times. [%-)] Well, at least one or two of you noticed the PULLMAN ENCORES! so all wasn't lost. [tup]

Speaking of lost - I'd say we're witnessing another of those long periods of absence from our Chief Chef [C=:-)] Nick - whereabouts and situation unknown.

Rob YOU have a duty to perform this Sunday - I will Post quite a few Pix from the Rendezvous for Day #2 (the "extra" day) - and it's up to YOU to provide the descriptions.

Given that this is the last day of the week, I should mention ONE MORE TIME - that tomorrow is the B'day Bash for West Coast S Dave and he has requested the timeframe of NOON to 4 PM (Pacific) - 3 to 7 PM (Eastern) for the festitivies. Hopefully SOMEONE will step up to oversee the activities as I will NOT be around during that time.

Later! [tup]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, May 26, 2006 9:50 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

G'day!

Continuing on with the final part of my 2005 Canadian Rail Journey . . . .

QUOTE: Canadian Rail Journey, Part IV and final (initially Posted on page 16)


Wednesday, May 11th, a glorious morning in Bedford (Halifax) Nova Scotia and the time has come to bid adieu to family and friends. Arriving at the VIA Rail station in Halifax, we checked in at the Easterly Class kiosk with plenty of time to spare for our 12:40 PM (ADST) departure for Montreal. The familiar sight of Train #15 and its all Budd consist once again rekindled that feeling of anticipation as we checked our luggage into Bedroom D of the Revelstoke Park car (observation dome). “Claude,” our attendant greeted us with his typically warm and friendly manner and we settled in to our seats up in the dome – front right.

Our train was made up of 13 cars and 2 F40PH locos (#6419 & 6418). The consist: one baggage, three coaches, one Skyline dome car – one dining car – six Chateau series bedroom cars and the Revelstoke Park observation dome car.

After snapping off a few more photos, we began our journey along the winding trackage from the station to the shoreline of Halifax Harbor and Bedford Basin. Before to long, the dome filled with travelers as we left Halifax behind and headed up to Truro. The countryside is a pretty sight, replete with large farms, lakes, and lots of new construction. Makes one wonder just where are all the people moving from?

Since there are no departures from Montreal (or Halifax) on Tuesdays, there was no passing train to view as we cleared Truro on the way to Amherst, the last station stop in Nova Scotia. {Back at the Halifax there was another Budd consist sitting across the platform that would become Train #15 on Thursday. This is the same train I came in on Monday late afternoon with the Evangeline Park observation dome car.)

A thought occurred to me as we wound our way through some really great looking scenery, that this may very well be the last time my wife and I travel the “Ocean” in Budd cars, if at all. As I’ve indicated in previous “reports,” VIA Rail will be shifting all the Budd equipment to western service by January 1st thereby making the “Ocean” an all Renaissance equipment train. Having experienced Renaissance in October of 2004, I doubt that I’ll be spending any of my retirement dollars for a repeat performance.

As always seems to be the case, we arrived in Moncton, New Brunswick rather quickly, although “Claude” told us we were running about 10 minutes late. With the elegant depots of Amherst and Sackville behind us, the idea that we were heading home settled in. Another 15 minute stop at New Brunswick so we stretched our legs, took some pix, and checked out the dining car menu. Oh no! Not again – same menu as every trip thus far since leaving home! With just two entrees on the menu, the selection does become rather limited when one has been traveling the route for 4 evenings since May 5th.

“Claude” told us that the Chaleur, VIA Rail’s train to Gaspe, Quebec, may have a schedule change to permit it to make the trip in daylight. Operating on a three day per week departure in each direction, the “Chaleur” is part of the “Ocean’s” makeup at Montreal, with the separation occurring at Matapedia. That same stop is where “Chaleur” meets the Montreal bound “Ocean” as well. For the first time in many, many trips, we did not have the “Chaleur” with us, nor did I on my “solo” round trips earlier in the week. Anyway, they say the scenery along the route to Gaspe is really something. Perhaps some day, unless someone decides to put Renaissance on the line for that as well.

Rogersville – Miramichi – Bathurst (with some snow still visible) – Petit Rocher – Jacquet River – Charlo and Campbellton (last stop in New Brunswick) all were stops where it appeared more passengers boarded than departed. The Campbellton stop also was our signal to call it a day …. Which we did.

Thursday morning found me sitting in the dome at about 5 AM (EDST) as the train backed into the station at Charny, Quebec. I guess I’ll never get used to this backing in, backing out business – and yes, it is railroading – but somewhere in my “socialization” regarding railroads, trains are supposed to pull in and pull out. As I thought about this quirk of mine, it occurred to me that even my model railroad “empire” requires backing in or out amongst the 8 consists of passenger cars accommodated at my Can-Am Union Station. Oh well ….. In a perfect world, it surely would be different!

With no full breakfast to look forward to in the dining car nor a continental breakfast in the Park car (both discontinued by VIA Rail as cost cutting measures (?)) the day began a bit differently than we were accustomed to. The Park car does offer juices, coffee, tea and hot chocolate along with apples and oranges for the Easterly Class folks. Fortunately, I still had some cookies left from my “solo” trip, so we survived on those until reaching Montreal’s Central Station at 8:05 AM (10 minutes early).

Once we reached Saint-Lambert, it was time to get our things together as the journey was about to come to an end. This was a bittersweet conclusion for us in that 15 years of travel along the Montreal-Halifax-Montreal round trip route may very well have ended.

Once inside the station, we had breakfast at our favorite “sidewalk café” table. Again, each breakfast of two eggs, sausages/bacon/ham with toast and coffee/tea cost $5 (Cdn) each. Had VIA Rail offered the full breakfast, it would have cost us $9 apiece and we would have gladly paid it if for no other reason than to have the ambiance of the dining car along with the views along the way. Alas, change is all about …….

So, that concludes my “report” of our rail experiences in Canada 2005.

The intention of these “reports” has been to share my experiences with those of you who appreciate trains – and the “Ocean,” with over 100 years of operation, is a “Classic” in every definition of the word.


See y’all later!

Tom (Siberianmo)
Proprietor of “Our” Place




ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by coalminer3 on Friday, May 26, 2006 9:14 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Lots of interesting posts and encores this morning.

Wanswheel – I enjoyed the New Haven ad; I have a copy of that one somewhere in the archives.

Al – Thanks for the information on three of the finest western trains.

Theodorebear is in the house! It certainly was a mess in the NEC yesterday. The system worked as it was supposed to do in that when one set of breakers (near Baltimore) tripped, others did as necessary to avoid frying the entire grid. Signals and switches were still operational so they were able to move stuff around with diesels. It’s a case of some new and some old technology in use (some of it goes back to PRR electrification days in the 1930s). Then there was a story on the news this a.m. abt. how Congress wants to cut $400 million from the ATK budget – don’t get me started!

Rob – Thanks for the encores.

Tom – Our mosquitoes magically appeared abt. two nights ago; monsters this year.

Here’s a New Haven encore since we are doing that sort of thing right now. I posted this a long time ago, so it may be new to some folks.

The Providence waterfront combined railroads and ocean shipping along with tugboats into a fascinating mixture of sights, sounds and smells. Aromas of salt air, wet wooden spiles, seaweed, lumber, dead fish, coal smoke and the heavy, tarry fragrance of bunker oil combined into a breathtaking perfume. There were more brick factories along the waterfront where people worked at night to make different things. Rubber companies, paint factories, coal yards, lumber yards and tank farms were all served by railroad sidings.

The tracks were in the street. It was a world where high-hooded Alco switchers prowled at night to pick up and set out cars at shadowy, brooding buildings. It was always better on rainy nights because things were more mysterious. The rain made the streets and rails shiny. The rain ran down the sides of the factory buildings and made the neon signs on top of the buildings seem to shine a little brighter. The streetlights were sharper and brighter, too.

Down the street comes a battered New Haven Alco switcher pushing a cut of cars. A brakeman, electric lantern in hand, perches on the ladder on the side of a Baltimore and Ohio boxcar passing signals back to the engineman. Carefully, carefully they move into a siding between two buildings to pick up a filthy tank car. A “cl-lang” sound with other metal-on-metal noise as they couple on. The brakeman loosens the hand brake on the tank car and flips a signal to the engineman, and the switcher pulls out into the street with a “wheep-wheep-wheep” noise from the locomotive. They cut the tank car and leave it in the street (motorists beware). Now it’s time to shove the B&O car into the siding. There’s a “scrawnch” as the brake sets, then a hard “snap-ah from the airhose as the switcher pulls back a little. The cut lever rattles and then there’s the “ratchet-ratchet-ratchet” noise of the brake wheel being set on the B&O car. Now the brakeman’s riding the end of another car as the locomotive pulls back onto the street. The brakeman locks the plant gate and relines the switch. Now the Alco moves down the street to pick up the tank car. It’s raining harder now, and the brakeman is a hunched figure in a yellow slicker as he bends between the cars to reattach the airhose after the engine couples on. The switcher moves on to the next siding to repeat the ballet throughout the night.

On the other side of town, a mail train pulled by a pair of green and gold New Haven PAs, pauses at the station. These mail cars are incredibly dirty ones from the Pennsylvania Railroad – a mighty presence whose influence is felt even here. The doors on the cars are open and I can see short, muscular, men wrestling with bags of mail. They are unshaven, gloriously dirty men who swear and smoke as they work. Air Flo 63s, Blackstones and Phillies are the brands of choice. I would give anything to be one of them, but I’m only eight years old

Work Safe

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Posted by trolleyboy on Friday, May 26, 2006 7:32 AM
Lets see a couiple Witt pictures just 'cause [:D][yeah]



Baltimore Witt at seashore trolley Museum



2786 at rockwood station at the museum



2424 at the Museum


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Friday, May 26, 2006 7:22 AM
Tom I think I need another eye opener, having trouble reving up this am[xx(] . No Boris stop playing with that expresso machine and frother[:0] That's gonna leave a stain, keep your "toys" in your shed. Bad [alien] Bad no treats for you[:(!]
Anywho back to the job that's at hand this mornings......

ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! [/u]

This little tid bit from October pg 148 to be exact should round out the innovations in streetcar design. I saved the best for last Ted ![;)][:p][^]

Enjoy Rob



QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

Okay now for the next installment of ...[i] Classic Juice...
The Peter Witt Story

As previously disscussed . Mr Mitten's nearside car improved the continents ( NA) street railway system,by instituting the PAYE or pay enter way of collecting fares. This improved rider safety by where the cars would stop and improved the street railways bottom lines by #1 getting fares ( in the daysof the conductor walking up an down the side running boards with the "coffee canb" fare box was not only inefficient but many a rider could and would jump on or off woth out paying. And #2 by having a fixed farebox the conductor could conduct there by giving better service to the riders, transfers stop information etc etc.


In 1912 a young man by the name of Peter Witt was elcted to the possition of Traction Commissioner for the Cleveland Railways. He was always seeking ways to improve ridership and ruder satisfaction. The one major drawback of the PAYE cars was that they tended to have very long dwell times at stops. With passengers entering amd exiting the cars via the same doors paying the conductor etc. Some people were still amaging to not pay and the exsessive wait times slowed down the flow of traffic and the shcedules of the transit system.

So he devised a car design which modifed the cars in that the rear doors were moved to the center of the car. Passengers would enter the front move back to the conductors position just in front of the centre doors where he collected the fares. The conductor controlled the center doors which were the exit.

Thus pay as you pass came to be. It sped up the dwell times, and ensured that all fares were collected and transfers meeted out.

Peter Witt supervised the first cars construction at the Cleveland railways Lakeview shops in 1914. The first of these new cars came into service on Dec 1 1914. As built they had longitudinal seats in the front section , followed by cross seats in the rear. Thes cars were also built as single ended controls with two man crew operator and conductor. As more and more of these cars enterd service officials from the other street railway systems came to look at them and quickly began producing simialr cars for their own systems. These cars came to be known as "Witt" cars on the major systems of North America. In Cleveland they were known simply as the "Car Riders Car "

Many street railways built there own cars to this design and Brill , Can Car Ottawa car Company , Preston Car and Coach, Kuhlman and others began producing this type of car under license. Peter Witt recieved a royalty of $10 per car built outside of the Cleveland shops.

Thes cars served all the Major and some of the minor systems. Including Detroit ,Chicago,Kansas City,Providense, Toronto ( 375 cars 75 trailers ),Baltimore,Cleveland, Buffalo , Rochester NY ,Toledo,Birmingham,Kitchener waterloo (ex Cleveland Cars) Regina ( EX KW cars ! ),aand likley several others.

Witts came in two sizes. The Large or standard Witt were 53'0" long 8'5" wide and 12' tall ( rail to trolleyboards ) these cars were lower geared and had strait pipping for trailer hauling. They could and did run solo as well. Few street railways used the trailer cars. The small Witt was 47'0" same height and width but were geared for higher speeds. Single service cars( hauled no trailers) used for rush hour and lighter use lines. From what I can gather Toronto was the only company to have the two types of Witts ( as an aside our museum has 4 toronto witt's two large and two small )

The Witt cars ran for years in Cleveland from 1914 to the early 50's in Toronto from 1921 to 1966. Similar life spans were enjoyed else where. Not untill the PCC car came about in 1936 was there such a universal streetcar design. The PCC continued the Pay as you pass method of fair collecting which is still in use today. Most Witts were converted to single man operations in the 30's and 40's with the farebox moubted bus style beside the operator. Rear tredle doors were installed as well as operator control of the rear doors once they were converted to single crew. As with Birney safety cars the tredles or operator center or front door controls could not be operated while the car was moving. Deadman switch controllers were also part of the safety package as well.

So there you have it the Peter Witt, the car and the man. If you got to my railimages account you can see several pictures of our museums Peter witt's. Large witt 2424 ( lovingly refered to as Bertha or the beer car ) and small Witt's 2786 and 2894.

Rob

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Posted by trolleyboy on Friday, May 26, 2006 6:55 AM
Morning Tom, a number 3 and some of the extra strength coffee this am if you please sir. ( should get me to work alive this am )

Ted I do indeed remember reading that about the street railway conductors,much worse when they still used the coffee pot style fare boxes. Montreal as an oddity ran two man cars right to the end, (1956) the two man cars even had a different paint scheme so riders knew which type of car they were getting onto.To your mallet supositions you are correct on that count too. The CPR had 4, which were all rebuilt into 0-10-0 suprsized switchers maybe 10 years into their lives.I believe that these started life as 2-6-6-2's and were used in the BC mountain passes only.

Well time to drop off an encore than I'm away till the late slot.

Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, May 26, 2006 6:39 AM

ENCORE! Courtesy: www.viarail.ca


We open at 6 AM. (All time zones - Don’t ask how we do that!)[swg]


FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of POSTS


It’s Friday! Join us for some fine pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery – a selection from our Menu Board for a <light> or <traditional> breakfast – and a cuppa Joe![tup]


Daily Wisdom


Don’t point a gun at nobody you ain’t willin’ to shoot, if necessary.



Info for the Day:

Railroads from Yesteryear –
ENCORE: Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O) -
Arrives Tuesday!



* Weekly Calendar:


TODAY: Pizza Nite! & Steak Nite!
Saturday: Steak ‘n Trimmin’s Nite! – and –
ENCORE! Saturday


SATURDAY, May 27th is West Coast S Dave’s B’day Bash! –
Scheduled for NOON to 4 PM (Pacific) – 3 to 7 PM (Eastern)


MONDAY, May 29th is U.S. Memorial Day!



MVP Award Winners



April 2006 . . . LoveDome Lars



[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]


Comedy Corner

Yarns from the Barn
(from barndad Doug’s Posts)


[:I] A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a particularly slow group of golfers. The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting for 15 minutes!" The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!" The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greens keeper. Let's have a word with him." "Hi George! Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather slow, aren't they?" The greens keeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind firefighters. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment. The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think
I will say a special prayer for them tonight.
"The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my ophthalmologist
buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?" [:I]


[tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup][tup]



The Mentor Village Emporium Theatre


NOW SHOWING:

Double Features and Three Stooges Short Subject!

. . . Sunday, May 21st thru May 27th: The Pink Panther (1964) starring: Peter Sellers, David Niven & Capucine –and- The Odd Couple (1968) starring: Jack Lemon & Walter Mathau. SHORT: Pop Goes the Easel (1935).

COMING ATTRACTIONS:

. . . Sunday, May 28th thru June 2nd: Patton (1970) starring: George C. Scott & Karl Malden –and- The Eagle Has Landed (1977) starring Michael Caine, Robert Duvall & Donald Sutherland. SHORT: Uncivil Warriors (1935).



SUMMARY

Name …..…………… Date/Time …..…..………. (Page#) .. Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 06:28:28 (340) Thursday’s Info & 17-Post Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 May 2006, 07:23:01 (340) Gulf Coast Report!

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 08:09:46 (340) ENCORE: Pullman Ad

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 May 2006, 08:28:31 (340) Pullman owned streamlined sleeping cars

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 May 2006, 09:15:53 (340) The return of CM3 & WVA Report!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 10:07:15 (340) ENCORE: Pullman Ad

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 10:51:11 (340) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 13:04:08 (341) ENCORE: 2005 Canadian Rail Adventure, Pt III

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 May 2006, 13:42:23 (341) Gulf Coast Report, Part Deux!

(10) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 May 2006, 13:45:04 (341) Left Coast Report!

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 14:16:05 (341) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 16:41:35 (341) ENCORE: Pullman Ad

(13) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 May 2006, 18:06:09 (341) Left Coast Report, Part Deux!!

(14) wanswheel Mike Posted: 25 May 2006, 18:11:59 (341) URLMeisterMonster’s comments

(15) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 May 2006, 18:36:38 (341) and more!

(16) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 May 2006, 19:13:48 (341) Comments ‘n Pullman streamlined obs

(17) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 May 2006, 19:39:06 (341) Like olde tymes![tup]

(18) West Coast S Dave Posted: 25 May 2006, 19:53:03 (341) and ONE MORE TIME!

(19) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 May 2006, 20:20:53 (341) Acknowledgments ‘n Comments

(20) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 May 2006, 21:54:45 (341) Inclusive Post

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 May 2006, 22:00:45 (341) ENCORE: Classic Juice #10

(22) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 May 2006, 22:10:23 (341) ENCORE: A Nick Post



That’s it![tup][;)]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 26, 2006 6:06 AM
Good T.G.I.F. morning to all in "ear shot." Tom, it is the crack of dawn so maybe something lite this a.m., cuppa Joe and toasted English, okay? Al has, once again, pulled the stops with his treatise on the 3 streamliners of the West with their stainless Pullman observations. Personally, I was always partial to the "boat tail" observations with the huge red Mars (ocillating) marker light and the illuminated drum logo on the end.[^] Those cars gave way to the more parctical rounded corners with flat bulk heads which could better accept a mid consist position in a train. They were still "classy" but lacked the distinctive "boat tail" appearance. Strangely, I can't recall ever seeing this modified version any where mid consist, however.

There was some enticing news of vintage Santa Fe Heavyweights lurking about in the Barstow, CA shops. This might send an a.p.b. to Barndad and interested parties for restoration possibilities? Surely their days are numbered when the only role left is for MW duty. I'm wondering if these are of the Santa Fe channeled sides variety or earlier species. The Pullman Green or 2 tone gray could apply to several prototypes of the 20's and 30's. Any rate, steel heavyweights should be of interest, no matter the vintage.[tup]

Good show on the replay of the "Safety Cars" Rob. Do you recall an anecdotal article focused on the clever methods some Conductors devised for "pinching" fares from the traction companies profits? Apparantly this malpractise became so rampant that the PAYE transition was as much for preventing Conductors pilferage as better effeciency. Also, thanks for clearing up the SD diesel conundrum for Canadian roads. I also wondered why the SD's weren't used, especially on the mountain divisions of the C.P, C.N. and B.C. The lighter rail would also explain the absence of articulated (Mallets) steam as well, I suppose? I noticed the use of "double heading" with Pullers, Pushers and Helpers seems more common in Canada than any place below the 49th, no?

It was great to hear from Nick posthumously vicariously again. Our Cheif [C=:-)] and "Rocker" of note has a style "all his own" and we need an occasional "fix" from time to time. Good going Tom Well, I gotta went for now. The Franklin Bridge beckons me forth to the Kamikazi set this day.[V] Boris, don't fool around, just give it a pull, okay? Gadfrey Daniel!!! Tom when will you put that "help wanted" ad in the Gazette?[:(!] Happy rails all.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:10 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Here's a definate blast from the back pages. page 5 to be exact [:O] Our own Cheif chef from before he was the had of the kitchen dungeons here, with a fine recollection of the various and sundry ONR passenger trains.

Enjoy Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by nickinwestwales

Hey,Tom-another of those cold Molsons please and as it`s payday a round for the house,as and when they straggle in!! Well it`s a day off for me(the best sort-everyone else is working) and blowing a gale out there so time to sit a while. So,Ontario Northland,classic or not?...discuss....[takes me back to schooldays] Well ,first a disclaimer,I`ve never travelled on any of these lines,so all this is "received wisdom" picked up from the (un)official O.N. railfan site,but they caught my imagination. In part because of the manageable size of the outfit (in modelling terms) and partly the off the beaten track,frontier feel of the place. So,the trains, The Northlander runs daily from Toronto up to Cochrane via North Bay ( C.N. trackage to N.Bay ) Normal formation seems to be G.P.38-2,A.P.U (converted "B" unit for car heating ) 2 coaches and a food service car ( coverted G.O.cars ) until fairly recently,power was any one of the last 3 F.P.7a`s dating back to `51 or 2 but retro-fitted with 2000 hp Caterpiller prime movers. Also seen on this service although not sucessful and long withdrawn ,were a number of Dutch built Werkspoor T.E.E units. This service meets bus connections along the route serving the various `branches ` although It`s predecessor the Northland sleeper carried connecting portions and could include virtually anything. Heading north from Cochrane we have the Polar Bear Express,a summer-only tourist run up to Moosonee up in the arctic circle--this is usually a twin G.P38 lashup although Cochrane shed will happily use whats available,usually a dozen plus cars including domes,food service etc ( think these came from B.C.Rail and C.P.R . The Little Bear is the 3-times-weekly mixed to Moosonee--Beyond Cochrane you are in the tree line and the track is the only land route in or out so this is a community lifeline, The little bear runs about a dozen freight cars(lots of flats with big plant,containers etc,fuel tanks,general stores. According to season,a "canoe car" ( bulkhead flat with special racks fitted) and a "moose car" (50` box for dressed carcases) are available. so a thumbnail essay. Thats left me thirsty so same again and i`ll just perch over here at the end of the counter,take care now,nick
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:00 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another of the classic juice car type classics from pages gone by to continue in line with the last couple of encores from me. This was dredged up from page # 162 or last november if one is tracking such things. Enjoy again.

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

Okay Classic Juice #10

The changes in car design and crewing and the comming of the safety car'

A lot of you will remember the Saftey car or the Birney from your own cities systems. Next to the Witt Birney's were likely the most common streetcar type out there, with most major and alot of the minor systems operating them,they came in two main forms the single or double truck models. They were designed for singleman operation as well, hence the safety car moniker.

First a bit of run up back history to the avant of the one man car.

To the uninitiated,the general appearance of trolley'sappearse tio have chaged little before the 1930's. One however can find many subtle changes beginning in the 20's. Monitor roofs , with their small openable clerestry windows, gave way to the arched roof with ventilators around 1910. Rear plateforms were enlarged for the new Pay as you enter PAYE fare system , and doors started to appear more commonly in the centre when Paye as you pass started with the Witt cars.

More common use of bright colours, and the abandonment of fancy lettering and striping in the 20's also occured. Likley the biggest change was construction methods, in the 20's steel replaced wood as the construction medium. At the turn of the century (approx 1906 ) steel was used as an underframe, with a wood body previous to that cars were generally all wood. The first NA manufacturer tp do steel bodies was the pressed steel company of Pittsburgh which delivered it's first all steel cars to Montreal in 1907.

Most companies however beleaved that heavier wood bodied cars ( steel underframe ) gave a smoother ride,some going even as far as to insist on concrete floors for extra added stability ! Nevertheless steel offered more strength ,was less fragile for external panel use, and could be more easily repaired with rivetting or welding. It was also more fireproof and held together better under vibration. As steel's advantages became better known and hardwoods became more scarce,the tide of opinion changed and by 1912 the star of the changeover took place. Wood interiors and wood framed canvas covered roofs remained in vogue for many years yet but after 1917 the all wood car was obsolete.

While double truck cars became increasingly more popular after the turn of the century ,single truck trams continued to be built to the 1930's. Because they were shorter and lighter, and took up less street space,required less maintenance and consumed less energy.They were better suited to single man pay as you pass operations as well for smaller cities and less travelled routes. Money savings were the prime motivation in the 30's to single man cars as well.

The unions of coarse were not happy with the loss off two man crewing. The main crux was what if the motorman passes out ot dies with no conductor who would save the passengers, this is a death trap etc etc. Enter the safety car ( and better motorman wages/ sorry conductors the union got less jobs but, more money for the remaining members )

Significant technical improvements / advances happen just prior to WW1 making 1 man operation safe and practical. With the "safety cars " the first was built by St louis car in 1913 for the illinois traction ( later terminal , thought you would like that Tom ). It featured a combination brake,sand and door mechanism plus a deadmans handle. The latter became the main feature to overcome the objections to one man operation should the operator become unconscious or dead.The handle has to remain depressed,otherwise the brakes and would automatically apply amd the doors would be made openable only by hand. Doors could not be openned while the car was moving nor could the car move if the doors were open. Hence the "safety car" name.

This system was designed by J.M. Boisenbury ( Illinois Traction's superintendant of motive power ) he worked in conjunction with westinghouse. A foot positioned deadman's button which had to be stood on at all times was also developed at this time.( PCC's use these )

Safety cars of all shapes and sizes were built to double and single truck models.The most popular was the Birney designed by Charles O. Birney of Stone & Webster. his car standarized on a 28 foot 16,000 pound car first produced by Brill in 1916 ( The KW picture I posted on Sunday ) This was a rougyh riding but cheap to produce car essentilally the model T of the transportion systems.They were no frills minimal heating with rataan seats. The latter double truck models rode better but were still rough 47 feet long 40,000 pounds. The later still witt's and PCC's are also safety cars in that their safety appliances are the same ( deadman handle on the Witt , floor pedal on the PCC ) they were just more civilized to the ride characteristcs and of coarse they wer faster.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:54 PM
Good evening gents, quite the day has unfurled itself before us this morning and afternoon 5x[tup] for the multiples from Al, Dave,and Ted indeed just like old times. Boris actually has a blister on his finger from all the rounds he's wrung up today. Well big guy ring up another Keith's all around espeacially since I'm digging into that wonderfull St George Arms beer batterd halibut and chips [dinner] I had the cook send the proper recipe to H&H so it is authentic that and the bangers and mash, and steak and kidney pie. Boris was excited to see that entray [:O] [swg]

Tom Great gobs of pullman info that I unwhittingly unleashed on us all today ! [;)] I just liied that piece from BK and it seems like everyone else has as well. As long as you run fast the girlz shouldn't be able to catch up with you at the airport, unless you are goping VIA the mentor aerodome then all bets are off [:O] i actually pulle dout the CD I had and listened to that particular Johnny Cash song great to read the words as I was able to hum along the tune with it.

Ted I'm saddened to hear about the VA records flap, hopefully it will get squared away quickly and porperly for all involved. What and absolute assinine thing to have happened. I'm certainly glad that some of the encore's the last day or two have flicked the odd switch for you. we've got plenty of more to dig out. Everyone dig back into the back pages you will be supprised at what you can find. No Boris we are not going back to find your "Dolly" [alien]

Dave Hey great to see you pop in again today.The official why for CN or CP not purcahsing the first SD's as that both railroads had allot of ultra light rail in the 50's left over from the various component railways they were formed from or took over.Both roads tenede to purchase 4 axle or speacially modified A1A trucked locomotives instead. In CP's case RSC2's in CN's RS13's,RS24's A1A trucked RS18's and a myriad of others. MLW was a well supported manufacterur in Canada.

CM3 great to see you back sir, I'm glad that your trip went well and all survived to tell the tale. Cleveland was quite the PCC and Witt hub as well as the high speed suburban electric lines all connecting to terminal tower. It's unbelievable that all that electric rail failed to survive.It's amazing as to how well the CLRV's and ALRV's have survived in Toronto, they only lost to accidents 3 of the original 300 cars ! and these prders go back to the early and mid seventies when the TTC seriously concidered abandoning all the surface rail routes and just retire the PCC fleet.

Al I'm with dave where do I sign up for both books [wow][:D][tup]


Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:20 PM
Good Evening!

[wow] What a day, and it isn't over! [tup] Nice turnout guys and just goes to show that where there's a will . . . .

First: You Johnny Cash fans, check out Page 340 for the lyrics to "One Piece at a Time!" Updated, thanx to Mike's comments . . . . [tup]

Dave "We the people" should keep you on duty more often! [swg] Good to see all the Posts and very heartening to have you amongst us - hope it's for the duration! [tup]

Ted Seems like olde tymes 'round the joint! Also great having you stopping by for more than a brief chat. [tup] Boris is beginning to get "that look" in his Cyclops eye! [:O]

Al Figured the Pullman Posts would get you away from writing that book! [swg] But then again, this time I WANT you to finish it - after all, we're talking RDCs! [tup]

Thanx to all who purchased rounds and contrary to what young-Dave may believe - I'm actually gonna stay awake 'til at least 10:30 PM CDST! [swg]

REMINDER:
Leon the Night Man takes the bar at 9 PM (Central)


Tom[4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:53 PM
Eveing Al...
I was reviewing some slides from the seventies last night, I had forgotten that the Santa Fe stored a considerable number of retired heavyweight coaches, baggage and cafe cars in Barstow, some still retained well worn Pullman Green or faded two-tone grey, some had been converted to MW duty previously with silver paint and extensive modifications, one ancient baggage car had obviously been re-sided sometime in its life as the truss rods were still intact. In conversation with an official, the cars (perhaps two dozen at the time) were being retained for possible conversion to other duties. No lightweight equiptment was included but some odd ball power and home built conversions were present, F7B units converted to remote control slaves, quite a few Alco RSD-15s and the only Santa Fe rotary i've ever seen.

I can guess as to the ultimate fate of the B units and Alco's , but i've often wondered if any preservation groups discovered this hidden treasure trove of heavyweight equiptment or did they meet the scrappers torch when no longer needed.

Reading your post, caused a bell to go off. Ok, when can I purchase a copy of your book? The line forms here...

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:39 PM
"Strike while the iron is hot." Yes, I'm going to make a real nuisance of myself today as I got a few breaks, finally. Tom, just a snort of Crown in a tall glass w/a twist and a drop of bitters, if you please. Great mounds of molding Moose manure, I did say a quarter of a million Veterans, didn't I? Sorry 'bout that! More like 26 -1/2 million (as you stated) not counting data on the next of kin et al., pardon moi.

Hey, the great stuff just keeps rolling in, however, very soon our strongest contributor will be dodging B-52 mosquitos in "the Land of the Midnight Sun," don'tcha know?[:O] Then, "We few, we happy few..." will feel the burden of a serious void. Maybe a miracle or two will come our way at "Our" Place to "keep the wind to our backsides?" For now, I'm keeping a cool head and a rabbit's foot twix't my typing fingers. Gadfrey, the N.E. Corridor took a bad hit today for reasons I still am waiting to hear about. Somehow, when there is a glitch in rail service which rarely occurs; a flurry of media hysteria gets immediate attention. The same "glitch" occuring on a day-to-day basis with every major airline in the hemisphere seems to go by unnoticed. Okay, so I'm being paranoid probably. Still, we never see much of anything positive regarding this vital mode of national transportation, do we? I only wish I could be around to see the day when the inevitable "turnaround" will be staring the "Jet Setters" and SUVers squarely in the eye.[^] Oh, how the mighty will have fallen as they board reconstituted Pullman style accomodations. And ya now what? They probably will wonder why they had not been doing this years before. As several of you members have stated before: It isn't if, it is when!!! Also, each of us might take a look at these terrific daily entries and summaries in a whole new context? Nice thought, isn' it? Incidentally Boris, by following Cap'n Tom around; what would you do if you caught up with him? BWOONG Okay, just checking. Happy rails all.
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:13 PM
Good Afternoon Tom, and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Nice to see Dave, Rob, Art and Mike picking up the slack.

Since one of the subjects of the day was Pullman I thought it would be nice to mention those all Pullman owned and operated trains they were among some of the finest ever.

ARIZONA LIMITED, FORTY NINER and TREASURE ISLAND SPECIAL are the three that come immediatly to mind.

PULLMAN
Streamlined Observations
by Al

In May 1933 Pullman Standard delivered to Pullman one 28 seat Coach Buffet 12 seat Dinette 10 seat Lounge Observation car constructed of Aluminum and riveted together. This car was never assigned a name and was displayed at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair. The car featured a rather odd tapered round Observation end never repeated on any other car. At the observation end was a pair of clamshell doors. The unnumbered car ran on experimental Aluminum trucks never repeated. The car was leased to the Union Pacific between October 1936 and March 1938 and painted in the UP yellow and brown with gold leaf lettering. The car carried the name CITY OF CHEYENNE on its flanks and was operated between Denver and Cheyenne. Apparently the car was extremely rough riding and at the end of the lease returned to Pullman where it was stored in Chicago. It is believed the car was scrapped for its Aluminum content sometime during WWII probably 1943.

28 REVENUE SEAT COACH BUFFET 12 SEAT DINETTE 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Sloping Round) Pullman Standard May 1933 (Built for display at 1933 Chicago World's Fair)

CITY OF CHEYENNE

The other Observation delivered by Pullman Standard to Pullman in May 1933 was also displayed at the 1933 Chicago World's Fair. This car named GEORGE M. PULLMAN for the founder of the Company that bore his name. The interior of the Aluminum car featured 3 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 8 seat Dinette 12 seat Lounge 8 seat Lounge Observation. The Observation end of the car featured a rounded end with a single center door. The car was delivered in its natural Aluminum finish with no skirting and fixed vestibule-boarding steps. The car as delivered ran on experimental 4-wheel trucks.
After operating on the rear of several trains for short periods the car was returned to Pullman where it was shopped in November 1937. At that time the car had side skirting installed, standard six wheel trucks replaced the experimental 4-wheel trucks the car had been delivered with. At the same time the car received a full width diaphragm at the vestibule end of the car. New retractable folding steps were installed in the vestibule. The car was painted in Pullman's standard two-tone gray paint scheme at that time as well.
The first major assignment for the GEORGE M. PULLMAN after the rework was to one of the Santa Fe CHIEF consists between February, 1938 and July 1938. The reason for this was one of the CHIEF Sleeper Lounge Observations was assigned to operate in the second SUPER CHIEF consist for the same period until Pullman Standard delivered the new SUPER CHIEF sleeper Lounge Observation.
The next assignment for the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was to the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIAL for both seasons of its operation between May 22, 1939 - August 21, 1939 and between June 22, 1940 - September 16, 1940. For both seasons of this trains operation the GEORGE M. PULLMAN brought up the markers. In its first season the sleeping cars were all streamlined heavyweights and in the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIALS second season all sleeping cars were lightweights.
Beginning August 23, 1939 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was assigned to the temporary replacement CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO after the original train was wrecked. The GEORGE M. PULLMAN was withdrawn when the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO regular Observation SF-901 returned in May 1940 from repairs.
Following WW II the GEORGE M. PULLMAN returned to the Santa Fe where it once again brought up the markers of one of the CHIEF consists between February 1947 and November 1950. Again the CHIEF had to give up one of its regularly assigned Sleeper Lounge Observations to the new daily SUPER CHIEF until a final SUPER CHIEF VISTA series car was delivered to the Santa Fe in November 1950.
After that the car returned to Pullman Chicago.
In October 1952 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was sold to the Chicago Great Western for Business car use. It is known the car was used in charter service by the CGW bringing customers from Minneapolis to Omaha and on at least one occasion the car was seen in Kansas City. For most of its time on the CGW it sat at Oelwein, Iowa the roads main shops. In September 1964 the car was transferred to Omaha where it was cut up for scrap.

3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 8 SEAT DINETTE 12 SEAT LOUNGE 7 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Round) Pullman Standard Plan: 4028 Lot: 6400 (Built for and assigned to Pullman lease fleet)

GEORGE M. PULLMAN

The next Pullman owned streamlined Observation was actually a pair of articulated cars. The first of the articulated pair was a 14 single room 2 double Bedroom articulated sleeping car named ADVANCE. The ADVANCE"S articulated running mate was the PROGRESS a 3 Double Bedroom 1 Compartment Buffet 19 seat Lounge 10 seat Lounge Observation. The pair delivered to Pullman-by-Pullman Standard in August 1936.
For their first regular assignment beginning in June 1937 the cars were renamed and painted in the Pullman two tone Gray scheme. The new names they would carry for the rest of their operational lives were as follows.

BEAR FLAG originally ADVANCE
CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC originally PROGRESS

They were than assigned to the FORTY-NINER between Chicago and San Francisco running opposite the CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO. The FORTY NINER began service July 8, 1937 and was discontinued July 26, 1941replaced by a second CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO train set.
Next regular assignment for the articulated pair was to one of the two ARIZONA LIMITED consists for the second and final season this train operated between Chicago and Phoenix. This seasonal train operated from December 1941 to April 1942 its second and final season.
Next regular assignment for the pair was in 1950 as temporary wreck replacement for a CITY OF LOS ANGELES observation.
Finally in August 1956 the articulated pair were retired and scrapped by Pullman.

ARTICULATED 14 DUPLEX SINGLE ROOM 2 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard August 1936 Plan: 4050 Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

ADVANCE
Later renamed
BEAR FLAG

ARTICULATED 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 10 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed)
Pullman Standard August 1936 Plan: 4051A Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

PROGRESS
Later renamed CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC

Pullman Standard next delivered AMERICAN MILEMASTER to Pullman in time for the New York World's Fair of 1939. Pullman Standard completed the car in April 1939 and immediately readied it for the fair. This car had an interior that featured 2 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment 1 drawing Room Buffet 19 seat Lounge 8 seat Lounge Observation.
First regular assignment for AMERICAN MILEMASTER after the fair was to one of the two consists of the All Pullman All Room Winter only ARIZONA LIMITED train sets between Chicago and Tucson-Phoenix. The AMERICAN MILEMASTER only operated in the ARIZONA LIMITED its first winter of operation. In September 1941 the AMERICAN MILEMASTER was transferred to the Southern Pacific for operation in one of the LARK consists after that trains nearly identical Observation 400 was wrecked. In December 1941 AMERICAN MILEMASTER became SP 2nd 400. It remained in SP service for the rest of its operational service life.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed Pullman Standard April 1939 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6597 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

AMERICAN MILEMASTER

A twin to AMERICAN MILEMASTER was constructed by Pullman Standard in June 1940 and named MUSKINGUM RIVER. The only difference being that MUSKINGGUM RIVER used stainless steel in its construction.
The MUSKINGUM RIVER was assigned to one consist of the ARIZONA LIMITED for both the 1940 - 41 winter season and 1941 - 42 winter season.
As soon as the second and final season of the ARIZONA LIMITED was completed the MUSKINGUM RIVER joined its twin the former AMERICAN MILEMASTER operating on the rear of the other LARK consist after SP Observation 401 was wrecked and scrapped. In June 1943 MUSKINGUM RIVER was numbered SP 2nd 401.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM! COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Swallow - Tailed Pullman Standard June 1940 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6608 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

MUSKINGUM RIVER

The last Pullman owned streamlined Observation was the Dome Lounge Observation built for the 1947 GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW. Each of the TRAIN OF TOMORROW'S four cars was an Astra Dome. Their was a Dome Coach, Dome Dining Car, Dome Sleeping Car and the Dome Lounge Observation. The cars were finished in Cor-Ten steel with fluted stainless panels below the windows and the letter board. Each cars was named with the Astra Dome Lounge Observation receiving the name MOON GLOW. Interior of the MOON GLOW featured 24 seats in the Dome. On the main level of the car the forward section ahead of the dome was 13 seat Lounge. Below the Dome was a 10 seat Lounge area and the cars Bar. In a small private nook behind the stairs to the dome was a desk with one chair. The rear Observation end of the main floor featured another Lounge area with seating for 21. The rear of the Observation was rounded with an emergency door centered in the rear.
In September 1950 the entire TRAIN OF TOMORROW was purchased by the UP and after repainting in Omaha the cars were assigned to UP trains 457 and 458 operating between Portland and Seattle round trip daily.
After being rebuilt for mid-train operation in 1959 the 9015 as the MOON GLOW was numbered operated in one of the CITY OF DENVER train sets.
All four cars were retired in the early 1960's by the UP and sold to a scrapper in Pocatello, Idaho.
Fortunately the former MOON GLOW was rescued from the scrap pile by a Railroad Historical Society group out of Ogden, Utah. It is hoped the car will be rebuilt to a Dome Lounge Car when funds are available.

24 SEAT ASTRA DOME 44 SEAT BUFFET LOUNGE OBSERVATION (Round) Pullman Standard May 1947 (Built for and assigned to GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW)

MOON GLOW

TTFN Al
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Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:36 PM
Hello Wanswheel,
I believe that Cash song you refer to is "I got it one piece at a time" about a Detroit assembly line worker who smuggled parts out one by one in his lunchbox to build himself a no cost automobile in his backyard without the knowledge or consent of his employer. They don't write them like that anymore!!

It's been well over 25 years since i've heard it on the radio or found it available in any media , maybe one of the reissue CDs will see fit to included it .

Can't vouch for how the VA conducts themself, actions speak louder then words as has been proven once again by the extensive coverage of incident, but , if I took a file home from my department I would be doing time in a Federal Prison.

Ok Tom, close to bedtime for you retired folks!!!!

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:11 PM
Hi Tom and everyone, a round for the house.

It seems it was a matter of routine for that VA analyst to take the files home, he had been doing so without incident for 3 years.

One highlight of my dull life was going to Carnegie Hall to see and hear Johnny Cash in 1994.
Tom, In addition to the published lyrics I recall a line that goes something like,
"It's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55 automobile..."
http://www.irs.princeton.edu/PhotoArchive/scan06a.jpg

Northern Pacific halibut for Fish & Chips night
http://www.archives.gov/research/american-west/images/110.jpg

Pullman ads from the 1940s probably load too slow for dial-up

Broadway Limited http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/abbroadwaylimited.tif.jpg

20th Century Limited http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/ap20thcentruylimited.jpg

New Haven http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/abthenewhaven.jpg

Union Pacific http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/abwhoswhoinstreamlining.jpg

See America http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/abseeamericabigad.jpg

Purple Heart Limited http://www.eliillinois.org/30108_87/main/fhbadpurpleheartlimited.jpg

http://www.eliillinois.org/cgi-bin/project/getsubjects.pl?subject=Advertisements
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Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:06 PM
Note to self, activiate spell check or don't wear my glasses backwards!!

Hello once again Tom

I am in complete agreement on the wealth and content presented at "Our Place". There is too much garbage out there indeed, often by self proclaimed experts who pretend to have a clue regarding whatever subject they are discussing, most often they are also "I know everything about everything" types as well.

That's the reason I don't, and won't ever again, belong to any organized model RR clubs, to much snobbery i've experienced among these groups, let's all be sheep as they say....

"Our Place" is a refreshing change from the usual order of business here in cyber world, doesn't matter our background, location, age, or primary interest. We all share a common bond in the sharing and perserving of our knowledge into a collective format about a time in that will never be again.

Enjoy that rough retirement Tom, gotta check your message , catch you in the AM.

Ok, tell me Boris is not playing with matches!!!!

SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 4:41 PM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
first Posted on page 212

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #55

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the The Pullman Company from a 1946 advertisement in my personal collection.



1 Pick the place you want to go and write for reservations. When you get word there’s room for you, see your railroad ticket agent and . . .

2 Reserve Pullman space for a trouble-free trip that will get you there safely – in more comfort than you’ll get going any other way!

How to start on your vacation

WITHOUT A WORRY IN THE WORLD

3 No worry about weather, roads or mountains in an all-steel Pullman car. Pullman’s been the safest way of going places fast for more than 80 years!

4 No worry about privacy or sleep. Your air-conditioned Pullman space is all your own, with big, comfortable beds it’s a joy to stretch out in!

WHEN YOU GO ON YOUR VACATION

GO PULLMAN

THE SAFEST, MOST COMFORTABLE WAY OF GOING PLACES FAST!


Enjoy!

Tom [4:-)][oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 2:16 PM
G'day!

And a fine day it is turning out to be . . . the return of CM3 AND West Coast S AND a "double" from Theodorebear!! [yeah] [tup]

Dave Email received and responded to . . . THANX! [tup]

Ted Continuing on with the VA situation - that's more like 26 million-plus, not a quarter of a million. And yes, you are so correct with your probable assessment of the kind of person who will make this all look like warmed over cereal. It's up to US to ensure that GOVERNMENT knows how we feel and what they MUST do - it's not an option. They caused it - they must remedy it.

It's gratifying to see you guys today and I surely appreciate your support in keeping "Our" Place up 'n running! [tup] Ted hit it on the head once again with his comments on finding it difficult to accept that any other Thread could muster up so much quality material for repeat-Posting as we do. There is a wealth of RR-related info within these pages of ours and so many of you have made such fine contributions that it seems appropriate to ENCORE! them from time to time . . .

No Fed Holiday for you, Dave - well, someone has to guard to store! [swg] I've never quite accepted the Monday holiday "thing," although who doesn't appreciate 3-day weekends [?] Being a "traditionalist," I simply prefer to recognize the day ON the day, if you know whutImean. So, here's the way to approach it - have it BOTH ways! [swg] Why not [?] I mean if those people in Congress can, why can't we[?] Okay, okay - Boris stop following me around with that bell - ring it! <geesh>

Okay, Gents - back to the rigors of retirement! [swg]

Tom[4:-)] [oX)]

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
  • 1,619 posts
Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:45 PM
Afternoon Tom and all present..Tom you have a message awiting you.

Light ale only, got the duty for the next four days, no Fed holiday for me, what I do to grab that elusive brass ring!!! Seems the boss is out on medical yet again, so I am currently in charge!! God, help those impacted by my meagar contribution to my small portion of the Government i'm responsible for!!!

Trolley Boy,
glad you appreciated the SD story, i'm surpried the Canadian roads didn't embrace the design, seems like a natural as they had similar operating challenges.

Howdy to Wanswheel, CM3 & Theordorebear, opps, Al been been here of late as well, Tom keep the Encores coming, they are much appreciated. When time later toady permits, i'll dig one up from my past.

Until later

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:42 PM
Hi folks, I sneaked back to "take up the slack" on this Thursday's "Daily Mail/Express." Tom, just a quick cuppa Joe for now please. I must be driving and ,well, you now the rest...[:O] Hi CM3, we missed ya hereabouts and it is always a pleasure to greet your return. A retread on some of your outstanding prose on the N. H. and B. M. might just catch a few "newbies" and certrainly they would be a fine reread for us "old timers."[^] Gald to hear all went so well with your "getaway." I could never really "get a handle" on Cleveland, OH. It just seemed like another over grown Lake Erie town wihtout much to recommend it in architecture or cosmopolitan ambience. To be fair, it has been years since I rounded "dead man's curve" and that city does has one of the finest Symphony Orchestras, world-wide. When things fall back into place, I know we all will be awaiting your personalized report in depth.[tup] WOW! What a difference a month or two can make in revisiting so many excellent topics, e.g. Pullman, B & O, S.P., the "near side cars" and a plethora of related material. Just "shows to go you" that even in needy times, "Our" Place has a depth to draw on unmatched any where else. Can you imagine going back over the hackneyed, insincere rubbish from so many other "popular" threads? [#oops] I shouldn't be too boastful; it just "slipped out."[V]

I imagine Wolfman has managed a tipple or three among some old blokes in and around Rugby, England. He will definately not miss the premature summer temps and humidity on offer now. Hopefully, the "Book Ends" are well into their respite from the trials and tribulations of the ordinary "grind." I hope they know that our best wishes go with them. Barndad, your situation is hardly one I would envy. This is tantamount to a whole "change of life," which can take a horrific toll on time and resilience. Egad, I still ponder the irony of that speeding passenger train "taking out" a Pickle factory. If it weren't for the tragic loss of life, there could be a dark humor side to the story. Well " Tom, yes there is plenty of cyber threat "out there" and it "floors me" that the V.A. people in Washington are so cavalier about the gravity of this "bone headed" disaster. To think what expense and trouble we all go through to maintain a degree of privacy and personal security and then, some off -the -street, "wet behind the ears" punk gratuitously "blows the lid off" every shred of data needed to put over a quarter of a million servicemen and women plus their survivors into a "free for all." Likewise, I have put my [2c] in for the "circular file" at all levels. Sorry if I went [#offtopic] but I fell better now for having done it. Well, "I saw me duty and done it" (Popeye, circa 1930's on). Hope to drop by more often and am wrangling my schedule to that end. So long for now.
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:04 PM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!

G'day!

Continuing on with my 2005 Canadian Rail Adventure, here's Part III . . . .


QUOTE: Posted by siberianmo
Posted: 20 May 2005, 14:21:48
Canadian Rail Journey, Part III (initially Posed on page 15)

The trip back to Montreal on Monday, May 9th, was aboard a similar VIA Rail consist to the one that brought me to Ottawa (4 LRC coaches powered by a Genesis P42 loco). The car was only 1/3rd full, whereas the morning train was packed. My only gripe with the outbound train to Montreal is that there was no opportunity to snap off a few pix …. Boarding call, followed by a “march” to the cars, very structured and organized to say the least.

Departing the Ottawa station at 3:10 PM, Train #34 began the scheduled nearly 2 hour trip to Montreal. The ride was smooth and comfortable. Before I knew it, we were approaching Place Bonaventure and Montreal’s Central Station. Our early arrival (10 minutes) provided me with a little over an hour before boarding call for the “Ocean” and my return trip to Halifax.

One thing of note on the way back from Ottawa was my observance of a N. de M. electrified locomotive sitting at one of the shops near downtown, on the south side of the mainline. This loco didn’t look “well” and my guess (since corroborated) is that it was there for maintenance. I didn’t have the time to snap off a photo, for before I knew it, there it was – and there it went! I still have to look twice when I see the N. de M. markings on rail cars – seeing more of ‘em these days as CP’s and CN’s empires expand.

Once again, sitting within Montreal’s Central Station, listening to the sounds of the train announcements – chimes – bilingual announcements – the hustle and bustle of a real live train station all around me. Yes – this was and remains a special place for me and those of us who appreciate all aspects of passenger rail travel.

The boarding for the Ocean took place precisely at 6 PM for those holding Easterly Class tickets (bedrooms). Proceeding down the escalator to the awaiting train, gleaming in the station lights, I found myself mesmerized once again with just how great those Budd stainless steel cars look and how well VIA Rail has maintained them. (Sure, some may find fault here and there, but my take on that is these very same people probably have “issues” with most things in life – perhaps even Santa Claus!)

My single bedroom (Roomette) this time was at floor level and once getting my gear stowed, I proceeded to the next car, the Evangeline Park observation dome. The 11 car train was the same that brought me to Montreal in the morning – 2 FP40’s (#6441 & 6405) – one baggage, two coaches, one Skyline dome car, one dining car, five Chateau series bedroom cars and the Evangeline Park observation dome car. Car attendants were the same as well, “Joanne” in the Park car and “Al” in the Chateau Brule bedroom car adjacent to the Park car.

Sitting up in the dome – front seat on the right side, I engaged in my familiar “routine” of watching the procession of commuter trains leaving with their cars full, heading off to their suburban destinations. On the right side were the electrified loco’s (out of sight as they had backed in) and on the far left were the trains powered by F40PH’s of Montreal commuter rail system, “AMT” – translated: Montreal Agency of Transportation. During my time in the dome, I did see on LRC consist arrive, powered by a Genesis P42 in that great VIA Rail livery.

6:30 PM arrived and the Ocean slowly left the station behind as once again daylight enveloped the train, giving new perspective to it all. Crossing the St. Lawrence on the Victoria Jubilee Bridge is always special. The Seaway below, with the ships heading off to their destinations, the automobiles, trucks and buses on the bridge, a passing commuter train to the left and of course the structure itself with a turnout to the right, over the water no less. Really is interesting to take it all in.

On this evening, I decided to forgo the dining car experience for two reasons. First, the menu was the same as our Thursday, May 5th trip to Halifax and my Sunday, May 8th trip to Montreal. Enough! Second, I just wasn’t all that hungry – so a sandwich in the Park car dome, with a couple of Alexander Keith’s pale ales “worked” well for me.

VIA Rail is about to undergo several changes to what many of their regular passengers have taken for granted. I posted a separate thread regarding these changes on two forums, and provided Email’s to several people who requested this insight. So, for anyone interested in what these changes are all about – check the previous posts on this thread, and you’ll find them.]

Remaining in the Park car’s dome until about 10:30 PM, I finally gave in to the urge to sleep, and called it a day – a long, enjoyable day. I had accomplished that which was to be done – once again enjoyed the “light show” of the loco’s headlight playing games with the shadows of the night along with the assorted reflections of color bouncing off the rooflines of the cars before me. The signal lights changing, the illumination within the structures within view of the tracks and the occasional highway vehicle racing along in the night. Always captivates my interests …….

Tuesday morning, May 10th and the last leg of my “solo” rail trip would be coming to and end this day. The day began a bit on the overcast side, no rain, just somewhat gloomy. Up at 6:30 AM Atlantic Daylight Savings Time, and directly to the Park car dome. A couple of “shots” of juice, coffee and cookies (purchased at one of the shops within Montreal’s Central Station), provided me with the “start” I needed. “Joanne” was provided with her remuneration in the form of a new cookie supply for being so kind to me the day before.] More than one passenger asked about the “Continental breakfast,” only to be told it no longer is offered (as explained in one of my previous trip reports.) Unfortunately, it appears VIA Rail didn’t do a good job in keeping the passengers informed, especially those accustomed to this particular feature.

Breakfast in the dining car was enjoyable, as always. Several people were commenting aloud with regard to the “missing” continental breakfast in the Park Car’s bullet lounge. It appears that good public relations was not enhanced by this move.

At Campbellton, New Brunswick – about a 15 minute stop - two VIA Rail engineers boarded the train as passenger. They were operating Train #15 on Monday night heading towards Montreal when, according to the senior Engineer, a woman apparently committed suicide right in front of their locomotive. A 42 year old woman stopped her vehicle on the tracks at Nigadoo, NB and waited for the train to hit her. The Engineers were taken off the train for return to Moncton on our train, somewhat somber to say the least.. Needless to say, she died at the scene.

If you’ve never witnessed the scenery in that part of New Brunswick, I find it to be worth the view. Lots of water – the Bay of Chaleur, rivers, inlets and lots of wooded areas, punctuated by a building or three now and then. Stopping at Miramichi, at Miramichi Bay, always perks my interests too. Formerly, Newcastle, the name change apparently was attributable to the mergers of several communities into what it is today. Anyway, for the duration of the stop, there always seems to be lots to look at.

Arriving at Moncton, NB at 11:45 AM, it was time to stretch the aging legs, take some photo’s (again!) and just enjoy what looked like would be turning into a blue skies day after all.

The best part of the trip, insofar as my choice in scenery was yet to come. Passing through Sackville, NB with the Bay of Fundy to the right, the prison to the left and then the historic Sackville Station to the right brought back many fond memories. Sackville happens to be the home of a good friend of mine and at least annually, I try to visit with him on a “turn around’ VIA Rail trip from Montreal. There’s about a 4 hour opportunity for a get together, then the westbound pulls in – thereby giving me a “two nighter” on the train, coupled with a brief reunion with my friend. Works well every time!

Next stop was Amherst, NB – first station stop in Nova Scotia. That is followed by Springhill Junction (flag stop) and I always look for Anne Murray – but somehow our schedules just don’t ever coincide!

Traveling eastward to Truro, the scenery is simply beautiful as the train takes to the ridge line of the mountains (“hills” to those of you in western provinces and states!). On this day, Train #15 passed us on the right, an all Renaissance consist heading to Montreal. From Truro to Halifax, nothing but blue skies and signs of lots of flooding from the torrential rains of recent days past.

Passing by “Mom’s” house at Bedford Basin, my wife and mother-in-law were on the front porch, waving as the Park car zoomed by. Another picture taken and another “signal” given to fire up the Buick for the trip to the station in order to pick me up. Works every time!

So, that’s about it. Leg #3 of my 4 part VIA Rail adventure came to an end at 4:45 PM ADST – 25 minutes late – but once again, as far as I’m concerned – on time!

To be continued ……….


See y’all later! [tup] [;)]

Tom (Siberianmo)
Proprietor of “Our” Place


Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:51 AM
G'day Gents!

A rather hot, muggy morning here in mid-Continent USA as the summer season is definitely upon us, in spite of what the calendar indicates! Gonna be hot ‘n sweltering ‘round these parts . . . . [tdn]

Been awhile, but there’s quite a bit to comment on from last night and this AM – so, best jump right on it! [tup]

wanswheel Mike Posted: 24 May 2006, 20:43:56

Mets appear to be “for real.” But the surprise of suprises in the Major Leagues just has to be the Detroit Tigers. They currently hold the best won-loss record in the majors and look as if a turnaround has definitely taken place. A new manager, new attitude and the results are stirring! My Cards aren’t surprising anyone, after all they only won the most games in the majors for the past two consecutive seasons. With that lineup of bizillionaires, how can they not [?] <groan>


One of my favorites from the “Cash Man” –
QUOTE: JOHNNY CASH LYRICS

"One Piece At A Time"

Well I left Kentucky back in '49, and went to Detroit workin' on a 'ssembly line,

The first year they had me putting wheels on Cadillacs.

Every day I'd watch them beauties roll by, and sometimes I'd hang my head and cry

'Cos I always wanted me one that was long and black.

One day I devised myself a plan that should be the envy of 'most any man.

I'd sneak it out of there in a lunchbox, in my hand.

Now getting caught meant getting fired, but I figured I'd have it all by the time I retired.

I'd have me a car worth at least a hundred grand.



I'd get it one piece at a time,

And it wouldn't cost me a dime,

You'll know it's me when I come through your town.

I'm gonna ride around in style,

I'm gonna drive everybody wild,

'Cos I'll have the only one there is around.



So the very next day when I punched in with my big lunchbox and with help from my friend,

I left that day with a lunchbox full of gear.

I've never considered myself a thief, but GM wouldn't miss just one little piece,

Especially if I strung it out over several years.

The first day I got me a fuel pump, and the next day I got me an engine and a trunk.

Then I got me a transmission and all the chrome.

The little things I could get in my big lunchbox, like nuts and bolts and all four shocks.

But the big stuff was snuck out in my buddy's mobile home.



Now up to now my plan went alright, 'til we tried to put it all together one night,

And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong.

The transmission was a '53, and the motor turned out to be a '73,

And when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone.

So we drilled it out so that it would fit, and with a little bit of help from an a-daptor kit

We had that engine running just like a song.

Now the headlights they was another sight, we had two on the left and one on the right

But when we pulled out the switch all three of 'em come on.



The back end looked kinda funny too, but we put it together, and when we got through

Well that's when we noticed that we only had one tail fin.

About that time my wife walked out, and I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts.

But she opened the door and said 'Honey, take me for a spin.'

So we drove uptown just to get the tags, and I headed to ride on down main drag.

I could hear everybody laughing for blocks around.

But up there at the courthouse they didn't laugh, 'cos to type it up took the whole staff,

And when they got through the title weighed sixty pounds.



I got it one piece at a time

And it didn't cost me a dime

You'll know it's me when I come through your town



I'm gonna ride around in style

I'm gonna drive everybody wild

'Cos I'll have the only one there is around



Uh, yeah red rider, this is the cotton mouth in the psycho-billy Cadillac come on, ho.

This is the cotton mouth and nugatory on the cost of this mo-chine there, red rider

You might say that I went right up to the factory and picked it up, it's cheaper that way.

Er, what model is it?

Well it's a '49, '50, '51, '52, '53, '54, '55, '56, '57, '58, '59 automobile.

It's a '60, '61, '62, '63, '64, '65, '66, '67, '68 [to fade]



trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 May 2006, 22:20:55, 22:34:39 & 22:43:10

Bringing back BK’s piece on A Man Named Pullman was a good read and set the stage for today’s “unofficial theme!” [tup]

If I see the H&H gals [?] anywhere near an airport we’re using, there’s gonna be big time trouble! Security guys will haul ‘em off as a threat to our well being! [swg]

Your rerun of the nearside car is even more meaningful for me now that I’ve been to the Halton County Radial Railway! [tup]

Depends on who one is talking with regarding the BLUES, NHL playoffs and Chris Pronger. He left because the organization was cutting salaries – big time – in advance of a pending sale of the franchise (still hasn’t been sold). There was no outward displeasure with Pronger, although again depending on who one speaks with. I felt he was a spoiled brat from the onset – given bags full o’ ca***o play a game – set up in a zillion dollar condo – just a kid. Then he matured, thanx to Al McGinnis’ mentorship and became what he is today. And you know what [?] When the BLUES recently retired McGinnis’ number before a game against the Oilers Pronger was no where to be seen for the ceremony. Many thought that was not only rude, but tacky as well. So, it depends on just how one views all of this. At this stage – I could care less about the whole of it. The year “off” killed more than one franchise and time will tell if the NHL will ever fully recover. [#offtopic] Boris ring the bell! [swg]


Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 May 2006, 07:23:01

Back to the business at hand – the VA’s screwing up of our records leading to a potential massive identify theft. I’ve done what is available to place an “alert” on my credit rating. Further, my representatives and Senators know exactly how I feel about all of this. I expect our government to rise to the occasion to ensure that WE aren’t made to PAY for protection of our identities due to the GROSS SCREW UP by government! Any Vet who puts out money to do this without DEMANDING remuneration from government is plainly playing into their hands. Our elected officials need to recognize that this is one of those times where they need to ACT rather than REACT. [soapbox] Boris ring it again! [swg]

My definition of “practicality” has everything to do with ability – on both sides of the coin! [swg]


passengerfan Al Posted: 25 May 2006, 08:28:31

While I believe we’ve seen that Pullman Post B4 – it’s great to read any time! All it really lacks to round it out are Pix. Thanx. [tup]


coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 May 2006, 09:15:53

Returned just in time to “save the day!” eh[?] The WVA Report was missed and we hope you’ll be able to stick with us throughout the remainder of our drought . . . .

Thanx for the “bon voyage” – however, I plan on Posting on Monday and Tuesday (morning) – then I’m “gonezo!” Guess you won’t be ‘round on the Fed Holiday, eh[?] We also have a “thing” going on Saturday and if at all possible, would appreciate your dropping off a [bday] greeting to West Coast S Dave. Unfortunately, I don’t believe he scans very far back in the pages, so to do it today or tomorrow quite possibly means he won’t ever see it. One can lead a horse to water, but . . . . !

Thanx for the round and quarters! [tup] Next time you plan an absence, just drop off the quarters in advance! [swg]


Additional THANX to others who purchased rounds last night and this fine day! [tup]


REMINDER:
Cindy will take the day shift behind the bar and Leon the evenings during my absence. Boris will tend to the duties in the kitchen and get the place going each AM at 6.

Later! [tup]


Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 10:07 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
first Posted on page 176

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #32

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check out this advertisement regarding the Pullman Company from 1950:



The carefree way to travel today!


Whether you travel for business or pleasure . . . alone or with others . . . you’re taking more than a trip when you go by Pullman. You’re enjoying a relaxing change of pace that releases you from the cares and routine of the day. For Pullman is as comfortable and accommodating as the finest hotel. No other form of travel offers so many important extras – the immaculate, king-size beds . . . the privacy . . . the freshly cooked meals . . . the refreshments and pleasant conversation in the friendly club car. Whenever . . . wherever you go . . . travel by Pullman. You’ll be as safe as you are in your own home!

Your local Ticket Agent will help:
1. Provide information on routes and fares. 2. Plan your stopovers. 3. Furnish your railroad Pullman tickets. 4. Reserve a “rent-a-car” at your destination.

Pullman
means comfort, safety, privacy and sleep


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]




ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, May 25, 2006 9:15 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; Coffee, please, round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

We survived our trip to and from the GCA (Greater Cleveland Area) – this included Cedar Point, Great Lakes Science Center, Omnimax (I want one for the house), and Cleveland Zoo/Rainforest. A good trip with well-behaved younger passengers. Ample rail activity en route, if you knew where to look. Last but not least the weather was excellent!

Man there’s a lot to review.

Wanwheel – Thanks for the URLs and the UP pictures and the Three Stooges photo. It is Pittsburgh in your B&O pictures; also enjoyed the shots of Parkersburg.

Tom – Enjoyed ACL and B&O material and the Toronto shots – TTC cars are nice looking (they had tons of PCCs when I rode them), and then a shot of Maple Leaf Gardens!

Barndad gave us the Great Pickleworks Wreck. And a ton of material on CTC installations.

Rob provided a nice summary of the Great Gorge Route and CN and CP pictures.

Pete – Thanks for shots of the Valley RR and the Lincolnshire Lt. Railway.

Al – B&O material is most useful.

Dave provided some good stuff on the SP.

Here’s a short B&O piece

Enjoy These Modern Travel Pleasures
Go By Train – at Low Rail Fares

Comfort – Relax in reclining coach seats, Slumbercoaches or modern Pullmans
Convenience – Depart and arrive in the center of town – near hotels, business offices and stores
Dependability – Fine, fast dependable service...in all kinds of weather
Good Meals – Dining is a pleasure – selection of reasonably priced meals, a salad or a sandwich
Relaxation - Highway strain and hazards are avoided p and lunges offer a club-like spot for sociability

Our employees invite you to ride with us – and enjoy B&O’s Courteous Service

Baltimore and Ohio Railroad (4/61)
I guess our ‘steamed proprietor will be leaving soon – bon voyage!

Work safe
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:28 AM
Here is my Pullman sbmission for the day.

PULLMAN
Owned Streamlined Sleeping Cars
by Al

The Pullman operating Company better known as the Pullman Pool owned a total of twenty-one lightweight sleeping cars. Many of these Pullman owned cars were sold to railroads while a few lasted to the end as Pullman cars.
First of the lightweight Pullman cars was the GEORGE M. PULLMAN named for the founder of the Pullman Company. This car was an Observation that featured an interior with 3 Double Bedrooms, 1 compartment 1 Drawing Room Buffet 8 seat Dinette 12 seat Lounge 6 Seat lounge Observation. This car was built along the lines of a heavyweight car except for its skirting and turtle roof with rounded Observation end. The GEORGE M. PULLMAN was among the first cars to have retractable steps. Interior of the car was art deco and was very modern by standards of the day and would have matched cars built as late as 1950. The car was constructed using mostly Aluminum including the trucks except for the wheels. Upon completion in May 1933 the car was displayed at the Century of Progress fair in Chicago. After the fair the car was assigned to different trains so it really became quite well traveled. In 1935 the pair of Aluminum trucks the only ones of there kind were replaced by conventional 6 wheel heavyweight trucks.
It's first regular assignment was between February and July 1938 to the Santa Fe CHIEF pool. One of the Santa Fe CHIEF streamlined Sleeper Observations CHAISTLA was assigned to the second SUPER CHIEF during this period until Pullman delivered the SUPER CHIEFS own Streamlined sleeper Lounge Observation PUYE. The GEORGE M. PULLMAN received a two tone Gray paint scheme for service bringing up the markers of the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIAL between May 22, 1939 and August 22, 1939. On that date it was withdrawn and assigned to the replacement train for the wrecked CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO beginning on August 23, 1939. For the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIALS second season June 22, 1940 - September 16, 1940 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was once again bringing up the markers. For the 1940-41 winter season the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was assigned to one of the FLORIDA ARROW consists.
Thereafter the GEORGE M. PULLMAN found assignment where needed the most during WW II and its next regular assignment was once again on the Santa Fe assigned to one of the CHIEFS following the war. The car also found postwar assignment to the UP in the CITY OF LOS ANGELES pool.
In October 1952 the GEORGE M. PULLMAN was retired from the Pullman pool and sold to the Chicago Great Western for use as a business car. But strong evidence suggests that the CGW used the car for charter service on many occasions. The car was often seen in Omaha during this period with business leaders aboard from Kansas City, Chicago, and Minneapolis - St. Paul.
Sadly this one of a kind car ended up in an Omaha scrap yard in September 1964.

3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 8 SEAT DINETTE 12 SEAT LOUNGE 6 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard May 1933 Plan: 4028 Lot: 6400 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

GEORGE M. PULLMAN

In August 1936 a pair of articulated sleeping cars were delivered to the Pullman Pool by Pullman Standard. One of these cars was an Observation named PROGRESS and the articulated sleeping car it was mated with was named ADVANCE. This articulated pair were truly lightweight streamlined cars complete with the smoothly rounded Observation end on PROGRESS. The interior of ADVANCE featured 14 Duplex Single Rooms and 2 Double Bedrooms. Interior of PROGRESS featured two 3 Double Bedrooms 1 Compartment Buffet 26 seat Lounge Observation. First regular assignment for the articulated pair was to the FORTY- NINER between Chicago and San Francisco. For this service the two cars received new names which they would carry for the remainder of there service lives. ADVANCE was renamed BEAR FLAG and PROGRESS received the new name CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC in keeping with the trains Gold Ru***heme. The FORTY-NINER entered service July 8, 1937 and the final trip of the FORTY NINER took place July 26, 1941. This train used heavyweight sleeping cars streamlined for this service and was assigned steam power. Initially the UP rebuilt and streamlined a Mountain and Pacific for their portion of the FORTY NINER trip. The Pacific operated between Omaha and Cheyenne and the Mountain between Cheyenne and Ogden. The SP assigned any of there Mountains and the C&NW assigned Pacific's initially until the new streamlined Hudson's arrived.
Next regular assignment for the articulated cars was to one of the ARIZONA LIMITED consists between Chicago and Phoenix between December 15, 1941 and April 3, 1942.
The ARIZONA LIMITEDS were another all Pullman operation like the earlier FORTY - NINER except there were two consists and every other day service was maintained. The sleeping cars in these trains were all streamlined and the trains operated for two seasons only.
Following the second world war the pair were painted UP streamliner colors and assigned to one of the daily CITY OF LOS ANGELES consists of 1947. After there stint in CITY OF LOS ANGELES service the pair found very little use after that and were scrapped in August 1956.

ARTICULATED 14 DUPLEX SINGLE ROOM 2 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard August 1936 Plan: 4050 Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

ADVANCE later BEAR FLAG

ARTICULATED 3 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT BUFFET 26 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard August, 1936 Plan: 4051A Lot: 6478 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

PROGRESS later CALIFORNIA REPUBLIC

In October 1936 Pullman Standard constructed a new streamlined sleeping car with fluted stainless steel panels hung by fasteners over the mild steel car sides beneath using truss frame construction. This sleeping car was an 8 Section 2 Compartment 2 Double Bedroom car. The car was named FORWARD and after completing a brief exhibition tour was assigned to the Santa Fe SUPER CHIEF. This was the first lightweight streamlined sleeping car assigned to the then all heavyweight diesel powered SUPER CHIEF. The heavyweight SUPER CHIEF consist along with FORWARD were withdrawn from service when the new streamlined light-weight SUPER CHIEF began service May 18, 1937.
At that time the FORWARD was assigned to every other night service between Chicago and Kansas City.
When the new streamlined daily CHIEFS entered service in February 1938 the FORWARD was assigned to its pool of cars.
Ownership of FORWARD was transferred to the Santa Fe in 1945. The FORWARD was rebuilt in Santa Fe Topeka Shops to a Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory car in October 1963 and numbered 3473.
The former FORWARD was scrapped in the late 1960's.

8 SECTION 2 COMPARTMENT 2 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard October 1936 Plan: 4057 Lot: 6494 (Built as experimental car using Truss Construction method)

FORWARD

The next Pullman Pool car built was the ROOMETTE I delivered in August 1937. This was the car that introduced the Roomette to the railroads. The ROOMETTE I contained 18 Roomettes. The ROOMETTE I was exhibited and operated in numerous trains until August 1940 when it was renamed MOSES CLEAVELAND and assigned to the NKP operated in overnight service between Chicago and Cleveland. In 1945 ownership of MOSES CLEAVELAND passed from Pullman to the NKP. In February 1950 the MOSES CLEAVELAND was once again renamed for the third time and assigned a number as well 216 CITY OF COLDWATER. The car was assigned to overnight St. Louis - Cleveland service for a period of time and ended its days operating Cleveland - Chicago. The NKP retired the 216 CITY OF COLDWATER in July 1961.

18 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard August, 1937 Plan: 4068G Lot: 6526 (Built as experimental car to introduce the Roomette to the railroads)

ROOMETTE I later MOSES CLEAVELAND and 216 CITY OF COLDWATER

A second all Roomette Sleeping car was constructed by Pullman Standard in December 1938 and named ROOMETTE II. It was nearly identical to the earlier ROOMETTE I. In August 1940 ROOMETTE II was assigned to overnight service between Chicago and Cleveland on the NKP along with ROOMETTE I.
At that time the ROOMETTE II was renamed ROBERT DE LA SALLE.
In 1945 ownership of ROBERT DE LA SALLE was transferred to the NKP. In December 1949 ROBERT DE LA SALLE was renamed and numbered 215 CITY OF ST. MARYS. The car was retired in July 1961.

18 ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard December 1938 Plan: 4068G Lot: 6556 (Built to operate opposite ROOMETTE I and assigned to Pullman Pool)

ROOMETTE II later ROBERT DE LA SALLE later NKP 215 CITY OF ST. MARYS

The next Pullman Pool sleeping car was the AMERICAN MILEMASTER Sleeper Buffet Lounge Observation delivered by Pullman Standard in April 1939 and displayed at the New York Worlds Fair. The car was repainted prewar streamliner colors of the UP and assigned to replace the GEORGE M. PULLMAN in the wreck replacement CITY OF SAN FRANCISCO. The AMERICAN MILEMASTER was itself replaced by the trains regularly assigned Observation NOB HILL back from repairs in June 1940. At that time AMERICAN MILEMASTER was repainted two tone gray and replaced GEORGE M. PULLMAN bringing up the markers of the TREASURE ISLAND SPECIAL and completed this assignment September 18, 1940.
Next regular assignment for the AMERICAN MILEMASTER began December 15, 1940 bringing up the markers of one of the two ARIZONA LIMITED consists and completed this winter only assignment April 3, 1941.
In September 1941 the AMERICAN MILEMASTER was assigned to one of the SP LARK train sets after that trains regularly assigned car 400 was destroyed in a collision on September 19, 1941. In December 1941 AMERICAN MILEMASTER lost its name and was numbered second 400.
Following WW II the cars ownership was transferred to the SP. For the rest of this cars history please refer to the Southern Pacific Chapter.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 20 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard April 1939 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6597 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

AMERICAN MILEMASTER

In March 1940 Pullman Standard delivered four IMPERIAL series 4 Compartment 4 Double Bedroom 2 Drawing Room cars to the Pullman Pool. The four cars were assigned to whatever train needed them until December 1940 when they were assigned two per consist to the ARIZONA LIMITED train sets. All four operated for both winter seasons the ARIZONA LIMITED operated in that train. At the completion of their ARIZONA LIMITED assignments the cars were transferred to the GOLDEN STATE pool of these cars and received numbers 217 - 220. The cars joined eleven others numbered 206 - 216 assigned to the same train built in 1942. Cars 217 to 220 were originally MPERIAL CLIPPER, IMPERIAL GUARD, IMPERIAL THRONE and IMPERIAL BANNER. The four cars remained in GOLDEN STATE LIMITED service for many years with ownership being transferred to the Rock Island and Southern Pacific in 1945. Cars 217 and 218 became Rock Island and 219-220 became the property of the Southern Pacific.

4 COMPARTMENT 4 DOUBLE BEDROOM 2 DRAWING ROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard March 1940 Plan: 4069D Lot: 6605 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

IMPERIAL BANNER

IMPERIAL CLIPPER

IMPERIAL GUARD

IMPERIAL THRONE

In March-April 1940 Pullman Standard built and delivered to the Pullman Pool 8 CASCADE series 10 Roomette 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars.
Four of these CASCADE series cars were assigned to the ARIZONA LIMITED its first winter season of operation CASCADE BANKS, CASCADE BASIN, CASCADE BOULDERS and CASCADE GULLY. The first two CASCADE BANKS and CASCADE BASIN also operated in the ARIZONA LIMITED consists there second and final season. Both of these cars would remain in the Pullman Pool until retired and scrapped in August 1967.
Another two CASCADE MILLS and CASCADE SHOALS were assigned to the ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKET service between Kansas City and Belleville where they made connections with the main ROCKY MOUNTAIN ROCKETS going westbound and returning eastbound beginning in June 1940. That day's eastbound CASCADE series sleeper operated as a Parlor Car with space sold at Parlor car rates for the daytime journey. The westbound CASCADE series sleeper operated overnight with space sold at regular sleeping car rates.
In November 1940 CASCADE MILLS and CASCADE SHOALS were replaced by newly built Rock Island owned 8 Section 5 Double Bedroom Sleeping cars 620 FOREST CANYON and 621 THOMPSON CANYON.
At that time CASCADE MILLS and CASCADE SHOALS were transferred to the Santa Fe who assigned them to overnight service between Chicago and Kansas City. In 1945 the ownership of these two cars was transferred to the Santa Fe and for the rest of their careers they operated overnight between Chicago and Kansas City.
Two other CASCADE series cars CASCADE BLUFF and CASCADE LOCKS operated in the Pullman Pool until transferred to the B&O in January 1941. They were assigned to the CAPITOL LIMITEDS becoming the first lightweight streamlined sleeping cars assigned to those trains.
CASCADE BOULDERS and CASCADE GULLY joined CASCADE BLUFF and CASCADE LOCKS in CAPITOL LIMITED service beginning in May 1942 upon completion of there ARIZONA LIMITED assignments. All four CASCADE series cars transferred to the CAPITOL LIMITED became B&O owned in 1945.

10 ROOMETTE 5 DOUBLE BEDROOM SLEEPING CARS Pullman Standard March - April 1940 Plan: 4072B Lot: 6606 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

CASCADE BANKS

CASCADE BASIN

CASCADE BLUFF

CASCADE BOULDERS

CASCADE GULLY

CASCADE LOCKS

CASCADE MILLS

CASCADE SHOALS

In June 1940 Pullman Standard delivered a stainless steel sleeper lounge observation named MUSKINGUM RIVER to the Pullman Pool. This car was assigned to one of the ARIZONA LIMITED consists for the two seasons that train operated. Upon completion of its ARIZONA LIMITED duties the car was transferred to Richmond for assignment as a wreck replacement for SP 401 recently wrecked on the LARK. In June 1943 MUSKINGUM RIVER lost its name and was numbered second 401. In 1945 ownership of second 401 passed to SP. For the remainder of 401's story see the Southern Pacific Chapter.

2 DOUBLE BEDROOM 1 COMPARTMENT 1 DRAWING ROOM BUFFET 19 SEAT LOUNGE 8 SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATION Pullman Standard June 1940 Plan: 4082 Lot: 6608 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

MUSKINGUM RIVER

In April 1942 Pullman Standard delivered the first Duplex Roomette Sleeping car to the Pullman pool. This car named DUPLEX ROOMETTE I featured 24 of these spaces twelve on either side of the center aisle. From the outside the car was easily recognizable by the windows down each side being staggered. This one of a kind car found many assignments throughout the war and attracted some interest by at least two Railroads. Both the Santa Fe and Canadian National would both order 24 Duplex Roomette Sleeping cars following the war.
In November 1949 Pullman renamed DUPLEX ROOMETTE I to L.S. HUNGERFORD. A few years later the car was sold to the NdeM and renamed PARICUTIN.

24 DUPLEX ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard April 1942 Plan: 4100 Lot: 6673 (Built for and assigned to Pullman Pool)

DUPLEX ROOMETTE I

Although not a Pullman Pool service car Pullman Standard constructed four cars in 1947 for the GM Train of Tomorrow. Each of the four cars was a dome equipped car. There was a Dome Coach, Dome Dining Car, Dome Sleeping Car and Dome Lounge Observation. The Dome Sleeping car besides the 24 seats in the dome had the following sleeping accommodations 3 Compartments, 2 Drawing Rooms and 8 Duplex Roomettes. This car was named DREAM CLOUD. After a tour of the country the entire TRAIN OF TOMORROW including EMD E7A diesel unit was sold to the Union Pacific in September 1950. After repainting at Omaha the four cars and power unit were assigned to the first westbound CITY OF LOS ANGELES for a trip to Los Angeles. From Los Angeles the cars operated in other trains to Portland, which would become their base of operations. The four cars were assigned to UP Portland - Seattle pool trains 457-458. Since this was daylight run sleeping car space in DREAM CLOUD was sold at Parlor car rates.

24 SEAT ASTRA-DOME 3 COMPARTMENT 2 DRAWING ROOM 8 DUPLEX ROOMETTE SLEEPING CAR Pullman Standard May 1947 Plan: 4128 Lot: 6780 (Built for and assigned to GM TRAIN OF TOMORROW)

DREAM CLOUD

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, May 25, 2006 8:09 AM
ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
first Posted on page 173

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #31

.

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check out this advertisement regarding the Pullman Company from 1950:

The carefree distance between two points

Travel by Pullman is more than just a trip! It is a carefree vacation . . . relaxing overnight travel that leaves you rested and refreshed when you arrive! No highway worries . . . no driving tensions. Just sit back and enjoy Pullman’s many travel extras – the immaculate, king-size beds . . . the privacy . . .. the freshly-cooked meals . . . the refreshments and pleasant conversation in the friendly club car. Next trip, travel the carefree way . . . by Pullman! You’ll be as safe as you are in your own home!

Complete privacy! Every Pullman room accommodation has its own toilet facilities. Individually controlled heat and air-conditioning let you choose your own travel “climate” . . . and the many courteous extra services of Pullman are yours at the touch of a button.

Your local Ticket Agent will help:
1. Provide information on routes and fares.
2. Plan your stopovers.
3. Furnish your railroad Pullman tickets.
4. Reserve a “rent-a-car” at your destination.

Pullman
means comfort, safety, privacy and sleep


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]


ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE! ENCORE!
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 25, 2006 7:23 AM
Good Thursday morin to yous who are still in the neighborhood. It's getting kinda spooky hereabouts but with Herr Wurlitzer, a fresh prune Danish, friendly cuppa Joe and fine memories of "posts past;" old times are the best of times.[^] Hey Tom, thanks very much for the links on this latest V.A. fiasco. I guess if "it can hit the fan" at the V.A., 'it' can happen any where.[:O] Imagine what price the "petty thief" can barter for now that he knows the gravity of his "ill gotten gains?" This may be pure coincidence but I received a few solicitous phone calls that were "out of the blue" yesterday evening. I'm on the "do not call" rolls, so it seemed unusual. Your trip tp the "Seward's Folly" sounds as ideal to me as Al's offer for a mountain retreat.[:D] You with your spouse and Al with a practical nurse. I always wondered what "practical" means(?)

Mike, the pix of B & O hard ware really yanked my chain and yes, that does look like Pittsburg, PA. I rode the Line as often as I could from D.C. to Chicago until one X-Mas leave the Capitol Limited arrived at 8 hours late. No food in the Diner, no booze in the Lounge and "no fool like an old fool" were the lessons learned. I never tried that again.[V] Ah yes Rob: Pullman "thy name is luxury!" It is my fondest hope that those of our number who have not had the pleasure of, at least, an overnight sojourn in a bedroom on a Pullman will someday "just do it." Am I right Tom, Al, Mike? Oh I know, the "luxury" can't be the same on Amtrak but still there is something about the movement and muted sounds of the "outside world" going by before R.E.M. sleep that can't be replicated any other way. Be sure to close the window shade fellas. I had an embarassing moment arriving at the Portland, OR station platform one very early morrnin' [:I]...met her in Spokane...'nuf said![:D]

Okay, I'll put my order in for the Halibut fillet deep fried in beer batter now (ala St. George's Arms) in hopes that [C=:-)] will do the hono(u)rs. And as for you Boris, keep your presence well away from the galley (Nick's cauldron). I don't need to find any "foreign matter"[alien] in my chips this time.[:(!] Gadfrey, hasn't there been enough of that going around lately? Right Boris, give us a clap from ole "99!" Uh, uh, don't even think it! See Y'all soon.

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