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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, June 2, 2006 7:12 AM
Good Morning Gang and time for a quick coffee and crumpet from the Mentor Village Bakery.

Mike Thanks for that additional information on the Flying Yankee.

Will put a couple other early strreamliners out their this AM.

CB&Q
TWIN ZEPHYRS
(April 21, 1935)
437 miles
By Al

The CB&Q received a nearly identical pair of streamlined three car articulated ZEPHYRS to the original 9900 ZEPHYR in April 1935. The TWIN ZEPHYRS as they were christened entered scheduled service April 21, 1935 between Minneapolis – St. Paul and Chicago daily in each direction. The one three car articulated streamliner carried the numbers 9901 – 550 -571 on it’s three cars and the other train set carried the numbers 9902 – 101 – 102. These three car articulated train sets featured a coach capacity for 64 and Parlor car capacity of 24. These two train sets carried no mail compartment such as that found on the 9900 ZEPHYR. The original schedule for the 431 miles between Chicago and St. Paul called for a 390-minute schedule for an average speed of 66.3 mph. The schedule between Chicago and Minneapolis called for departure from Chicago at 2:00 PM with St. Paul arrival at 8:30 PM and Minneapolis arrival at 9:00 PM. Eastbound the schedule departed from Minneapolis at 12:01 PM, 12:30 PM departure from St. Paul and arrival in Chicago scheduled for 7:00 PM.
On June 2, 1935 the 9901 and 9902 TWIN ZEPHYRS began operating a daily round trip each between the Twin Cities and Windy City. This meant the two articulated train sets were operating 862 miles daily in thirteen hours of actual scheduled operation.
The original TWIN ZEPHYR 3 car train sets were replaced by new 6 car articulated TWIN ZEPHYRS on the Minneapolis – Chicago route on December 18, 1936.
The 9901 ZEPHYR and its train were transferred to Texas at that time and entered service between Fort Worth and Houston round trip daily as the SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR. In December 1944 the 9901 SAM HOUSTON ZEPHYR struck a loaded gasoline tanker at a grade crossing in Dacus, Texas and was consumed by the fire.
The 9902 ZEPHYR and its articulated train set were transferred to St. Louis where it was assigned to operate as the OZARK STATE ZEPHYR beginning in December 1936.
In 1938 the 9902 ZEPHYR train set was transferred to Rock Island ownership and named the TEXAS ROCKET. After the 9901 ZEPHYR was destroyed by fire in 1944 the 9902 was transferred back to the CB&Q as payment for the 9901 ZEPHYR train set that was on lease to the Rock Island at the time.
In 1945 the CB&Q transferred the 9902 ZEPHYR to service between Chicago and Ottumwa, Iowa using the name 9902 ZEPHYR.
In 1947 the 9902 ZEPHYR was assigned to its final route between once again as the 9902 ZEPHYR.
Finally in 1954 the 9902 ZEPHYR was retired.

9901 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Cab Unit with Baggage and Kitchen Annex
550 Articulated Buffet 4 seat Lunch Counter 40 Revenue seat Coach
571 Articulated 24 Revenue seat Coach 14 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Observation

9902 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Cab Unit with Baggage and Kitchen Annex
101 Articulated Buffet 4 seat Lunch Counter 40 Revenue seat Coach
102 Articulated 24 Revenue seat Coach 24 Revenue seat Parlor Lounge Observation

CMStP&P
HIAWATHAS
(May 29, 1935)
421 miles
By Al

On May 29, 1935 the Milwaukee Road streamlined steam powered HIAWATHA train sets entered service daily between Chicago – Milwaukee and St. Paul – Minneapolis daily. For this service the Milwaukee Road received a pair of streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic’s numbered 1 and 2 with 84” drivers capable of sustained speeds around the century mark.
The Milwaukee Road Shops built the two six car consists pulled by the matching steam power. The first car in each train set was a 48 seat TIP TOP TAP Lounge Café car for food and Beverage service number 5251 assigned to one consist and 5252 assigned to the other consist. These cars were trailed by three 48 Revenue seat Coaches part of a group of 41 numbered 4400 – 4440 constructed at the same time. The last two cars in each train set were named Parlor cars. The first was a 22 revenue seat parlor named ISHKOODAH or MINNEWA. The second parlor in each train set seated 21 in revenue seating and an additional three non revenue seats were located in the Lounge area of the Beavertail Observation end these two cars were named WENONAH and NOKOMIS. Within months of the new trains entering service they were operating with nine cars and the handsome streamlined Atlantic’s had little trouble maintaining the fast 6½-hour schedule.

1 ALCO Streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic Locomotive and Tender

5251 24 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge 24 seat Café Car

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

ISHKOODAH 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car

WENONAH 21 Revenue seat Parlor 3 seat Parlor Lounge Beavertail Observation

CONSIST TWO

2 ALCO Streamlined 4-4-2 Atlantic Locomotive and Tender

5252 24 seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge 24 seat Café Car

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

4400 series 48 Revenue seat Coach

MINNEWAWA 22 Revenue seat Parlor Car

NOKOMIS 21 Revenue seat Parlor with 3 seat Parlor Lounge Beavertail Observation

NYNH&H
COMET
(June 5, 1935)
44 miles each way
220 miles total daily
By Al

Another manufacturer more noted for tires and Airships was the Goodyear – Zeppelin Company who constructed an Aluminum skinned tubular steel framed three car articulated lightweight bi-directional articulated diesel powered streamlined train. This train named the COMET was built for the New York, New Haven, and Hartford Railroad. The COMET was painted in a striking Blue and White paint scheme, the only New Haven equipment ever painted in this manner. The three car articulated train set was purchased with a cab at each end so it would be unnecessary to turn the train at terminals. The COMET with revenue seating for 160 passengers entered service June 5, 1935 between Providence, Rhode Island and Boston, Massachusetts a distance of 44 miles and was scheduled to operate five round trips daily in 44 minutes each direction. The three car articulated train was powered by a pair of Westinghouse 400 hp diesels one located in each of the trains two cab units. The two Cab units were numbered 9200 and 9202 with the center car carrying the number 9201.
The COMET operated on the same route from its delivery until the middle 1950’s when it was retired and scrapped.

9200 Articulated Shovelnose 400 hp Cab 48 Revenue seat Coach Unit
9201 Articulated 64 Revenue seat Coach
9202 Articulated Shovelnose 400 hp Cab 48 Revenue seat Coach Unit

TTFN Al
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Posted by wanswheel on Thursday, June 1, 2006 11:07 PM
Hi everyone, a round for the house and a triple-A toast to Tom in Absolut Alaskan Abstentia

Ted, thanks for checking out the urls. Without a memory of most railroads, I need to see pictures.

Al, according to a letter my father wrote in 1972, "...B&M and CV entered a joint order for the second Budd Streamliner, in 1933, just after the CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr came out. This new streamliner was designed for the Boston-Montreal run -- 3 cars, with RPO, buffet, and parlorcar. -- called the Flying Yankee."
B&M and CV soon had another in a long series of unpleasant incidents, and CV cancelled its half of the order. So B&M's choice was to make other arrangements for the new Budd train.

CM3, thanks for the entertaining ride on your classic train of thought over the linear track through the valley of unintended consequences, right down to its derailment, caused by a big bang. That story ought to have been told to the barbershop customers of Kornfield County in the voice of Archie Campbell. I would hold all parties blameless, except the developer who leveled acres of woodland to build the mall for the retailer to sell plants that cannot thrive outdoors.

Dave, no wonder the Key System is so well remembered, who could forget a daily diet of corned beef hash and doughnuts? Hash is meat and potatoes, so add good coffee and it sounds like a winner to me.

Rob, Jersey milk ad on the trolley car reminds me that coffee is not the only beverage suitable for washing down doughnuts. I can't digest any more new info right now, but I'll keep your latest traction treatments on the reading list.

Penn Station tracks, Manhattan, PRR GG1 & NH EP-5
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation1.jpg
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation2.jpg
http://knorek.com/RR/Found/PRR/PennStation3.jpg
Mike
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Posted by West Coast S on Thursday, June 1, 2006 6:50 PM
Afternoon all, haven't seen much of Tom of late , A howdy to our missing leader as well.

I've got the rounds covered for the after hours crowd..

Trolleyboy, very interesting , those Canadian operations were easily the equal of such Interurban giants as the South Shore or Sacramento Northern, seem very familar, what great days those must have been..

Theoredorebear, Appreciate the belated greetings, i've missed your laid back approach to society and life in general, can't take things too seriously now can we.. Good to see you a regular once more.

What a couple of days i've had, non stop work since the surprise vist from the General, who by the way, failed me on my department inspection, the only failure ever of a department under my charge, the cause is to involved to dwell on. After that exchange, he had the fortitude to inquire if I was available for 11-15 hour shifts, six days a week for the foreseeable future as part of the transition team tasked with relocating our operations to a new building !!....... They say you can't get blood out of a stone, apparently Air Force generals don't learn that in advance education. Enough depressing news:

Ok, just to get the juices flowing an not to stray too far from the Interurban theme of today.

Trans Bay ferry operations involving the Sacramento Northern to Oakland, Ca.

Let it be known that SN never owned a Trans Bay ferry, SN contracted with the Key System to provide that service until the end of passenger operations in 1941. Passengers embarking at San francisco utilized the Ferry Building, located at the foot of Market Street, once there one would board one of three Key System boats, YUBA BUENA, MENLO PARK, TAMAPILAS, the key roster peaked in the 1920's, with the onset of the depression and compleation of the Bay Bridge only the YUBA BUENA remained with the other two ferries sold to Government service for use in the Bay Area where they remained until scrapped after World War two.

Unlike their SP cousins, who wore white Key System Orange and maroon colors adorned the BUENA. MJB Coffee of a blend brewed only for the Key System was served in bone china cups on linen tablecloths with Sterling Silver utensils on the Restaurant deck which was furnished with the finest of hard woods and velvet plushes and stained glass windows commisioned from local artist.

It wasn't just the coffee, a secret recipe for Corned Beef Hash and Doughnuts are what is best remembered, during the hayday of ferry operations, over twenty five thousand pounds of coffee was served yearly, over ten thousand pounds of hash was served in the same period and over one hundred thousands doughnuts consumed by hungry commuters.

After a forty five minute crossing, passengers disembarked at the Mole, SN leased six tracks from the Key System, chronic lack of resources prevented SN from building their own terminal, when Key abandoned the Mole for trackage laid on the bottom deck of the Bay Bridge, SN followed suit.

Operating on the Key Systems via trackage rights to 40th and shaftner ave from the Mole , required SN equiptment to comply with Key requirements. Tripper arms were installed to comply with the ABS signals installed to govern the more then nine hundred movements this four mile route saw every day, they were a simple divice that did prove their worth in preventing several accidents. If a motorman over ran a stop signal, a arm attached to the overhead pole support , would engage the tripper arm and drop the Pantagraph while activitng the emergency brakes and setting all aspects to red.

Upon arrival to home rails, the tripper arms were deactivated and locked in place , they were used no where else on the system and jumper cables hung between each car
( Key also required each car to collect power) Voltage was switched from the Key's 600V to 1400V for the steep grades out of Rockland, extra air compressors were also acitvated and precurser to the Dynamic Brake was also put on line, later SN installed automatic voltage converters and compressors/ Dynamic converters on some of the fleet to improve schedules and reduce maintaince , the timetable permitted four and a half minutes to complete all of the above!
The above should keep most of you busy for awhile, this is just a sample of what will be contained in my complete SN review.


Keep well, until we meet again

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:32 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! EBCORE ! ENCORE !

Another encore on today's unofficial theme or electric railroading in South Western Ontario. The Lake Erie and Northren was one of the 1500v heavy interurbans of CPR ownership, whick joined communities along the Grand River and the Shores of Lake Erie.

Rob

Tomorrow is a non day off for me so Iwill not be around to tend the bar as much as today. so if the few can stick to their timeslots or even pop in a couple of times during the day, even pull up something that interests you from the back pages to keep us staedy on coarse. it would be appreciated. Thanks. Rob


CLASSIC JUICE #18 THE LAKE ERIE & NORTHERN

The LE&N was a late commer as far as electric lines in Ontario go. It was concieved in 1910 to run from Galt to Port Dover, in an attenmpt by the CPR to develope a ferry connection to cross Lake Erie. It's route took it through Galt and along the East bank og the Grand River to Paris , where it passed under the GT. It then proceeded south through Brantford to Waterford,where it crossed the TH&B and the Canda Southern ( NYC) on a high level bridge. From here it angled to the southeasterly to Simcoe amd then to Port Dover on Lake Erie where it originallu used the GT station until permission to do this was withdrawn.

LE&N was a 1500v line using poles not pans as the L&PS did. They used a brick CPR plan station at Mount Pleasant and in Paris, and for Port Dover they used an international plane station similar to the GRR's at Galt. The LE&N shared the GRR's Galt station ( passenger could transfer easily line to line as both were CPR properties ). At Glen Morris they used an old stone house ( still there today ) while in Brantford they used an impressive two level station,with street entraanc above for cars ans the tracks below ( Market street on the Grand river now a parking garage for the Casino )This station was shared with the Brantford and Hamilton Radial railway ( classic juice #4 ) Which was a chore as the B&H ws a 600v line so only one company could have their cars in the station at a time,the overhead in the station could be switched powerwise depending on who was using it at the time. Besides 14 station stops the LE&N also served 35 flag stops along their route. ( small lean to shelters only )

Unlike the hourly service used by the GRR, the LE&N ran every two hours. In 1950 CPR applied for discontinuance of passenger service buit were refused.When this happened they (CPR) altered the timetable and built in inconvienient connections with the GRR and TH&B etc. The passemger counts then of coarse declined imediatly and abandonment was granted in 1955.

According to CPR practice most stations and flag stops were removed only the Mount pleasant and Port Dover stations survive.After passenger servive was discontinued electric freight operations did continue for a time. The line between simcoe and Port Dover was abandoned in 1962,the line between Branyford and Waterford in 1965 ( bcame a TH&B line then washed out in the 70's ) The sections between Galt and Brantford and Waterford and Simcoe lasted until the 1990's when they were finally abandioned. The freight service was deisilized after 1961and all overhead was taken down.

You can see most of the ROW from Brantford to Galt and Paris along HWY 24.

Unlike the GRR 90% of the LE&N's roling stock was wood interurbans passenger and combine cars. Like the GRR all were mu capable and they ran 32 to six car trains depending on the passenger levels. Only combine car 797 survives today ( Preston Car and Coach built in 1917 ) it is currently under restoration at our museum.

Enjoy Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 4:21 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

An encore from one of our legion of the lost P
Something that will go along nicly with the dinning car service H&H want to establish out of the mentor villiages Union Station.

Rob[;)]


Originally posted by ftwNSengineer
yo Tom, another Jack and coke. By the way I really like the new menu cards.
P

[img.nr] http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c218/ftwnsengineer/scan0007.jpg [/img.nr]

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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:49 PM
Good afternoon again gents. Here's one more set of pictures of the BSM / BSR, all these shots have come from the OERHA collection most taken by Al Patterson, our museum's unofficial / official photographer.



BSR car Moving Down murray street on the east Ward Loop line passing under the GTR/CNR overpass. The brige is still in use today by the CN as it helps carry their heavy Toronto Windsor mainline above the city streets of Brantford.



A shot of the Lake Erie and Northern's station on Market Street, taken from the BSR mainline.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:28 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

As promised yesterday here's part 2 of the cataract traction for you all to read over again.remeber put your orders in for the fish fry tonight early. Those arriving late will be stuck with the atrocious Shark platter which Boris and Tex slaved over [:O][tdn][xx(].

A reminder to all, try to dig out past posts from the group for the next six or seven days to help keep things moving along Also remember birthday wishes only for our shipmate John for his natal fay on the third,no bash as he's somewher in the South Pacific, but warm thoughts 'n' wishes are always welcome . [tup][8D]

Rob


CLASSIC JUICE # 25 HAMILTON'S RADIAL's PT 2

This is the next part covering the other two radial or interurban lines that fell under the auspices of the Cataract Traction Co. I will do a part three aat a later date covering the HSR or Hamilton Street Railway, the city streetcar system thast was part of this conglomeration. Interestingly enough the HSR is still called the HSR today right down to the logo's on their all diesel bus transportation fleet of today.

Hamilton Radial Electric Railway : Hamilton to Oakville

This railway was the brainchild of John Patterson, his vision in 1893 was to build a radial electric network of 360km's (227 miles )linking Hamilton,Toronto,Niagara Falls,and even Woodstock and London.The first rails were laid in 1893 starting at James St in Hamilton to Hamilton Beach ( now Stelco on Burlington Bay ). In 1895, when the hoped for partner CPR pulled out of the plan, the ambitious scheme was cut back a tad,okay more than a tad. By 1898 it was only built as far as Burlington,and in 1905 to Oakville.

From Hamilton the route went along James street, then Gore and Wilson (hwy 2 ) and Sherman St.Where it then took a private ROW which paralled Sherman street. It then paralleled Barton St to Hamilton Beach.From there it ran alongside the GT entering Burlington at Maple St. In Burlington it ran along Elgin,James, and New St to Oakville where New St becomes Rebecca St and Randell Rd. This area is now called Lakeshore Road old hwy 2 and runs right into Lakeshore Ave in Toronto , all along the shore of Lake Ontario,you can drive this ROW today .

Even in the 1920's some of the plans to expand this line continued. In an era when streetcars were rapdily being replaced by busses,the HRE still envisioned a line extending from oakville to Port Credit and on into Toronto. Track was indeed laid along side the GT/CNR.The scheme finally collapsed in 1925,with the HRE cut back from Oakville to Port Nelson.

The HRE's main facilities included a 17 stall carbarn in Burlington and a steam power plant on Burlington Beach.Separate wood stations were built on Hamilton Beach,in Oakville,and in Burlington.The latter was built in 1927 and served as a hydro office and store after the line quit in 1931.The Oakvill station still surves today as a restuarant, the Beach station survived till 1980 when it was torn down for condos, the powerhouse was used for the city until 1947 when it was torn down. The carbarns servived as a busbarn in Burlington until 1962.

Oddly enough this line ws rebuilt and moved slightly in land in the late 60's and continues on as Go transits busy lakeshore line, running commuter trains 7 days a week between Hamilton and Toronto Union Station.

The Brantford and Hamilton RY : Hamilton to Brantford

Of all of the radial lines from Hamilton,thios one most resembled a regular railway.It ran accross country and for most of it's route travelled on a private ROW.First proposed in 1896 , it ws not started or open till 10 years later.It's opem route allowed for higher rates of speed and larger more comfortable cars.

It's route took it from the terminal station in downtown Hamilton and west on Main st to Hess, where it headed south to Aberdeen. From Queen and Aberdeen it started on its private ROW and began to climbing the limestone face of the escarpment ( known locally as Hamilton Mountain ).Half way up the mountain was Sanitorium Station ( mental hospital there tpdays McMaster Hospital ), past this station it beagn to climb the cliff face. Today this is the route of HWY 403. Views of todays drivers were once enjoyed by the passengers of highspeed electric streetcars.The view was of feilds and forests not todays condo's and malls.[tdn]

Along the line stations were at ,Jame's St ( UPPER )Alberton,Summit,Langford,Cainsville,amd Mowhawk Park.The line terminated at the Bi-level station built by the Lake Erie and Northern in 1915 in downtown Brantford . ( Today;s Brantford Casino occupies this spot ) In 1925 the line almalgamated with the HRE and ran through trains from Burlington to Brantford.

After the auto age arrived in the early 20'sthe line began to operate at a loss. Following the start up of throuhg bus servicce the ridership on the electric cars declined by half.In 1930 the HEPC bought out all the Hamilton Radials and instituited system wide bus runs. By 1931 service was ended on the HBG.

After the shutdown some of the cars were aquired by canda Crused stone of Dundas and were used till the electric portion of Canada Stone ended in 1971. None were preserved. The HGB ROW was torn up by 1935.All station were demolised at the same time ecept for Brantfords LE&N station which the Lake Erie and Northern continued to use till it ended service in 1955. Then it too waqs torn down. The sight remained dormant till the late 80's when Brantford started to build a telephone museum on site which never took off , it then became the Brantford Charity casino which still operates today.

For more Hamilton and Brantford info see the original Classic Juice on it #4 on page 134.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 3:18 PM
Good afternoon again gents. cindy I think a large round of keith's is required this afternoon,looks as though the CanAm track gang is done for the day. I notice from the fact that Boris is hiding that he must have annoyed H&H somehow. Mind-you the smells of the fish fry comming from the kitchen more than make up for it.

Here's a couple photo's to go along with classic juice # 28



The BSR/BMR car barn's as seen in the mid 1930's



Single truck preston car and Coach car making it's way along Terrace Hill summer 1938



Another of the Preston cars on Brant Ave at st Paul street in 1940



One of the DT cars from the Paris interurban route parked at the Brantford carbarn 1935

enjoy Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:22 PM
Well i'm going against the policy of no new info today as it's been a while since a new classic juice appeared, so her's one that's close to home for me.

CLASSIC JUICE # 28 THE BRANTFORD STREET RAILWAY ?MUNICIPLE RAILWAY


The Brantford Street Railway was incorporated bu local intrests in 1879 nothing was started till March of 1886 when the franchise ws sold to C.H. Flack of Cornwall Ontario. He organized a new comapny under the old name and began construction on July 7th of 1886. The work proceeded rapidly so that the openning cerimonies could be held two months later on Sept 9th. Free rides were available for all,and though the cars derailed frequently and easily they were light horse cars and were easily manhandled back onto the tracks.

The stables and Carsheds were at Gilikson& Oxford streets ( now Colbourne West )and lines were laid out on three routes. To the GTR station ran along Calrence and Murray streets.Clarence street which extended down to Park Ave to the Mainline GTR station( today's VIA station )on Market Street this line via King,Darling, Richmond and Brant Ave's and then to the blind school on Brant Ave ( schooll's still there today ).

The original gauge was 3'6" running on 5 miles of flat iron horserail. service was initailly served by three open and four closed cars. the tracks were so poorly built that one newspaper article from 1887 stated that " yesterday not one of the streetcars left the track " The reason for the poor track performance was that the paving materials were too soft, and the horses pulling the cars gradually wore through a deep trough midway between the rails causing the track to roll over and derail the cars.

EAECTRIFICATION

Late in 1892 a second new company was organized,still keeping the same name. It ordered six new electric cars from Patterson & Corbin of St Catharines On, and rebuilt the tracks to standard guage. In the rebuilding, the circuitous William Strret roye was abandonned and replaced by a line that ran straight out Brant Ave.this was to become the companies most important and travelled route, and was refered to as the "mainline" throughout the rest of the companies existance. Electric operation began on March 31 1893. The VP of the comapny was Samual Insull ( who was also the second VP of Edison Electric )Thsi made the BSR a very early piece of the Insull utilities company.

A new carhous and power station were built on Colbourne street near the GTR's Tillsonburg branch line crossing. ( This was usually refered to as the Great Western station )two large loop lines were built. The first ( 1893 )was the east ward loop which ran on Park Ave,Arthur,Brock ( my street ), Nelson,and Alfred streets to Colbourne.In 1909 the track on Park Ave was replaced by a new line on Alfred St.. In the following year (1894 ) a the second loop line was completed from the main GTR station on Market St ( VIA station today )via West St,Duke,Palace St and to the Brant Ave mainline. This line was found to be too ambitious and was removed later that year so that by october 1894 the Market Street line was once again a stubb ended line to feed the GTR station.Also in 1894 the Eagle Place line was built VIA Market Street S, and Cayuga and Erie Ave .

In 1895 a 42 acre traack called Mowhawk Park was leased just to the east of the city and the street railway extended it's line into the Park. By this time the compamy wass operating 8 and a half miles of trackage all the new construstion being of 60lbs rail with some of the previuous 30lbs horse rail still in use in the sheds and yards.

The company was unable to keep up with the $125,000 mortgage from Canadian General Electric and the mortgage was foreclosed in 1897. CGE became the owner of the line and installed it's president Frederick Nicholls as the president iof the BSR, the debt was always a sore point of difficulty for the company until finally paid off by the city in 1936.

In 1900 a shadowy company called the Von Echa comapny owned by dr S Ritter Eckes a mining concern from West Virginia became interested in Ontario Electric Lines.He was a contractor originally working on a london to Goderich interurban line and he stepped in a took a 120;000 dollar bond payment to operate the BSR which he merged with his Port Dover, Brantford,Berlin & Goderich RY an interurban company that he controlled but whose only asset ws the charter to build it ! This amalgamated company became known as the Grand Valley Rrailway in 1907 and he obtained a 50 year franchise from the city of Brantford to operate the BSR. This franchise dated 1902 exempted the company (Ickes)from any municiple payments for the first 25 years !.His first act was a minor track extension made to the Brant Ave line from Palmerston St to St paul street he also extended the Brant Ave line into the town of Paris in essence a small interurban district.

In 1905 Ickes disapeared defaulted in all his loans.The ceditors could not find him and it was reported that he had died in Seattle inapril of 1906. Leaving behind a tangle of deals and bills and defaulted creditors.owberships cahnged frequently between 1905- and 1912. two blocks of the Oxford street trackage were abandonned in 1908 as a cost sving measure.The Vernor family finally took control in 1909 and carried out some physical plant and equipment upgrades. 80lbs rail new closed cars from Preston car and Coach and a new line to Holmdale built in 1912. By 1912 the interurban line was in such disrepair that it was abandonned ( improper bridges etc ).In may of 1913 the railroad was again in recievership and put up for sale. The higher of the two bids for it came from the Lake Erie and Northern RY the City was the other bidder and even thouhgbthey offered less money the city assumed control of the BSR in 1914.The line was purcjhased for 253,000 dollars and they assumed the mortgae held by the CGE corp.


The city improvemnets included the rebuilding of all trackage to 90lbs rail, new single truck cars from Preston, snowsweepers from Maguire Cummings and a host of electrical and overhead upgrades.The rails were restored to the Palmerston,St paul and Brant ave loop and in Nov of 1914 Mohawk park was officially purchased by the city. Even the Paris Interurban run was rebuilt and reopenned the lorne bridge was replaced and service was finally at it's promised every ten minutes status.The new company was now officially remaned the Brantford Municiple Railway. All the former Grand Valley Ry trackage was brouhg tunder the BMR's control and in 1916 the crossings on Morell St with teh LE&N were finished and the proper connections were now made with the large interurban at it's Morel st terminal.The Terrace hill and holmdakle lines were connected as a large belt line in 1919 and some additional DT cars were aquired for this newly joined service.By 1924 it was found that even with the improvements and greatly increased ridership that the comapny was still losing money eg (1916-1,420,000 riders ,1919 -2,150,000 riders )All from a city of just under 30,000 ! City planers urged that the Paris interurban line be abandonned for good and tha Mohawk park service only occur on Holiday's and weekends.They instead increased fares on the Paris line and ran it till 1937 when it fianlly was abandonned.The Mohawk park and eagle Place routes were also abanndoned in 1937 just after the city paid off the CGE loan.In 1932 a Mohawk bus company was started to operated the abandonned street railway districts and in 1935 the comapny merged the opublic utility company wiht the BMR.In janurary of 1940 the last lines on terrace hill and Brant Ave were shut down and Brantford transit began all bus service in the city.The carhouse was used by the city as a bus barn until it was removed abd replaced in 1971.

Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 11:06 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another classic steam to tide us over on this warm early afternoon,this one was not dredged up from too far back only page326.

Rob


CLASSIC STEAM # 24 THE CENTRAL ONTARIO RAILWAY

The COR Into The Hills of Gold

The Central Ontario Railway was a 117 mile run that stretched from Trenton Ontario North to Maynooth and Lake St Peter. It was a road that served the many minning towns and villiages of the area.

Begun in 1873, the line was ultimatly intended to Link with the legondary Booth railway the Ottawa Arnprior and Parry sound Ry ( classic steam # 22 ) near Whitney Ontario.While the line made it through the sheild rock and swamp 3 miles shy of Booth's road is where it ended at Wallace on Lake St Peter. The actuial terminus as far as passengers went was at Maynooth just to the south. Here the railway had it's yards,turntables, and it's largest station.

The stroy starts in Prince Edward County, with the completion of a line between Picton( although the Port of Long Point was the original target ) and Trenton jct, the roads link with the Grand Trunk just north of the town of Trenton itself. ( Trenton is on the Bay of Quinte )However the gold rush north of Trenton and Belleville caught the eyes of the railroads builders and in 1866 they were determined to built to these new found gold fields before anyone else, chiefly their main rivals the builders of the Grand Junction Railroad who were hurrying to build a line from Belleville northwest to Peterborough, this openned in 1879. A branch led north from Peterborough from Madoc Jct to the ill-fated goldfields at Eldorado Ontario. Tyhe gold was not as plentifull as hoped but other more mundane minerals convinced the builders of the COR to continue north : iron ore.

In 1882 the construction of the new lines to the iron ore producing areas began. The first destination was Coe Hill, centre of the earliest of these iron discoveries. later prospectors found more in the hills around Bancroft, the line reached Bancroft in 1900.In 1909 Mackenzie and Mann's Canadian Northern laid it's Ottawa to Toronto mainline through Trenton , and added the branches and mainline of the COR to their ever expanding empire. The COR replaced their wooden depot at trenton with a huge three story and extended the north end of the line through to Maynooth where another larger station was built. It met the Irondale Bancroft and Ottawa ( IBO ) at Bird's Creek just north of Bancroft completing the web of branches that were the COR.All along the route small brancjes radiated like veins out to all of the mining camps in the area. Most were open pit type mines as the ore was close to the surface.

Gradually as the various mines depleted the branches were closed down. The lines in Cordova closed in 1941, to Bessemer and Lake st Peter in 1965 and to Coe Hill in 1966.CNR tried of running the short lines that were left as they felt them to be unproffitable even though several small and large paper plants and other industries were located on them. The Paper plants at Glenn Ross and Glenn Millar particularly of note. The CNR steadily chopped back the COR until all of the liones north of Marmora were gone by 1982. By 1986 the link between Trenton and Marmora was gone as well.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 10:45 AM
Good morning gents, what can I say still hot and muggy here today a 4th in a row at 90+ with the humidity to go along with it. [tdn] can't even work in the layout room , backyard or shed all of the above have taken on a sauna like persona.

Ted Good to see you in again this morning , hard to believe that hurricane season is upon you once again. I've noticed that the history network and the like are already running the what if and it could happen again worse case scenario cat 5 storms hitting an unprotected New york City and upper Atlantic Coastal area's. I suppose that it makes good TV and it "could" happen, by why cause a big flap. I'm sure that if a large storm was headed for the "breadbasket" like that that there wiould be a decent amount of warning ( I know there were warning for n'orlins as well ). Anyway glad to hear that you've gotten yourself previsioned ( still think that you should move somewhere colder ) [:D][swg] You would have the same summer weather and allot less tourists to worry about ,my neighbour rents his lower leavel out quite a nice 2bdrm.
Sounds like quite a haul of material, one can always use such books as research and then write up your own treatice for here. Usually easier to get copyright permission for that as long as you list them as the soarce.hopefully your friend gets some good photo's of his UK sojourne , sounds like a wonderfull little place to visit. [tup]

CM3 Wow that's the most entertaining accident report that I think I've ever read.Monty Python couldn't have come up with a better chain of events to make a movie around. And all over a non-poisonous snake to boot, that was likely more frightened than the human's. You never did say did the poor little snake survive ?I'm never against a bit o humour injected in our ddaily routine here, this post is definatly going in the archieves as a keeper fer sure fer sure [tup] Cindy get the man an extra big riound of whatever he wishes ( once it's late enough to hti the heavier stuff )


Al thanks for the input on the original streamlineres. Great to see the story and specs of the original's like that.When you think of the times, they were quite the thing techknowlogywise.And as such they were the forrunner of all the E units and name passenger trains that came after, the true golden age of passenger train service !


Since today is fish and chip night I've had the Girls ( H&H ) whip up ( they do like their whips don't they ) a fine spread of seafood for our eating pleasure. Beer battered Cod, Haddock, and Halibut, Atlantic Lobster flown in from NS via the Zepplin, a wonderfull crab salad and crabcakes, and of coarse their personal piece e la resistance a sauerkraut and sauage stuffed fillet of shark ( not for the faint of heart or cholestorol ) Available all day long, or until we run out, or Mentor EMT tells us to shut it down [:O][xx(]


Rob
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  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Thursday, June 1, 2006 8:24 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and all Present; coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox.

Weather here continues to be hot and muggy (can’t wait for August!).

Pete – Good to hear from you.

Mike – Thanks for the pictures. The shots of the C&O train at Richmond brought back some memories. It was not uncommon for power to be swapped between the C&O and the B&O. Many of you probably remember that the public timetables from that era had a C&O/B&O header on them. The ORG entries continued to be separate for the two lines.

Rob – Thanks for the encore pieces

Al – Some more interesting information on cars. Most appreciated.

One of the multifarious (no, Boris, NOT nefarious) activities I engage in is training folks who are involved with accident investigation/report writing. The following is a wonderful example of the genre. I know I haven’t posted this one before. It’s not rail-related, but it does involve heavy equipment and fire trucks.

Accident Report – Snakes

A couple had a lot of potted plants, and during a cold spell, the wife brought some of them indoors to protect them from a possible freeze. A little grass snake that had been hiding in the plants slithered out and went under the living room sofa. The wife saw it and screamed. Her husband was taking a shower and he ran, naked, into the living room. The family dog cold nosed him on the rear while he was on hands and knees looking for the snake. He fainted. His wife thought he’d had a heart attack and called the ambulance. The attendants loaded the man onto a stretcher and started to carry him out. One of the EMTs saw the snake emerge from under the sofa and dropped the end of the stretcher; that’s how the man broke his leg.

The wife called on a neighbor man who volunteered to capture the snake. He decided the snake was gone after poking around under the sofa with a rolled up newspaper. Relieved, the lady sat down on the sofa. Her hand slid between the cushions where she felt the snake moving around. She fainted. The neighbor man tried to use CPR to revive her. The neighbor man’s wife, who had just returned home from a trip to the grocery store, saw her husband’s mouth on the woman’s mouth and slammed him on the back of his head with a bag of canned goods. The cans knocked him out and cut his head so bad that it needed stitches. The ambulance was called again. The noise woke the woman from her dead faint and when she saw her neighbor lying on the floor with his wife bending over him, she assumed he had been bitten by the snake. So she went to the kitchen, brought back a small bottle of whiskey and began to pour it down the man’s throat. By now the police had arrived. They saw an unconscious man, smelled whiskey, and thought it was a drunken fight. The women escaped arrest by telling them about the snake. The ambulance took away the neighbor and his sobbing wife.

The snake again crawled out from under the sofa. One of the cops drew his gun and fired at the snake. He missed the snake and hit the leg of the end table that was on one side of the sofa. The table fell over and the lamp on it shattered, and as the bulb broke, it started a fire in the drapes. The other cop, trying to beat out the flames, fell through the window out into the yard on top of the family dog, who jumped up and ran out into the street in front of an oncoming car. The car swerved to avoid the dog, smashed into the parked police cruiser and set it on fire.

Meanwhile the flames from the burning drapes had spread and the entire house was blazing. Neighbors had called the fire department. The fire truck began raising its ladder when it was halfway down the street. The ladder tore out overhead wires, disconnecting electric and phone service in a ten-square block area.

Time passed; both men were discharged from the hospital. The house was rebuilt. The police got a new cruiser, and all was right with the world. About a year later the original couple was watching TV and the weatherman announced a cold snap for that night. The husband asked the wife if she thought they should bring in the plants for the night – she shot him!

Work safe
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Posted by passengerfan on Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:14 AM
Encore

Good Morning Rob and anyone else up this early AM.

Just Thought I would throw this out their for today.

UP
M-10000
CITY OF SALINA
(January 31, 1935)
By Al

The first of these new lightweight streamlined articulated three car trains was the Union Pacific M-10000 in February 1934. Constructed by Pullman Standard the M-10000 later to be named CITY OF SALINA after entering scheduled service was constructed of Aluminum and steel with the three cars riding on four trucks. Two of these trucks were shared placed at the articulated joints of the three cars. The front of this three car articulated streamliner was dominated by a large grill not unlike those found on highway trucks of the period though on a much larger scale dominated the front of this three car articulated streamliner. A turret cab was mounted above and to the rear of this massive grill and this is where the engineer controlled the three car articulated train from. There was a single headlight mounted in the center of the turret cab facing forward with another directly behind facing straight up toward the heavens. This lead unit contained the 600 hp Winton V-12 cylinder distillate engine that powered the electric generator that supplied the electric power to the traction motors of the lead truck. To the rear of the engine room was a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment, a small Baggage Room was next followed by a large air conditioner on one side and a train heat boiler on the opposite side at the rear of the M-10000 power unit. The second articulated car was numbered 10400 and shared the trailing truck of the M-10000 at its forward end and featured 56 revenue coach seats inside. The trailing truck of the 10400 was shared with the third articulated car 10401. This car shared the trains' third truck at its forward end with the rear of the 10400. The last truck under the 10401 was an independent truck supporting the rear of the 10401 only. This third car in the articulated streamliner seated 56 in coach seating and contained a buffet in the blind observation end shaped almost like a bullet. Waiters served the Coach passengers at their seats from the Buffet located at the rear of the 10401.
The exterior of the streamliner was painted in Streamliner Yellow with Leaf Brown Roofs and trim with Red separation stripes and lettering.
After an extensive tour of the country the M-10000 train set entered service January 10, 1935 between Salina, Kansas and Kansas City, Missouri round trip daily. The train received the name CITY OF SALINA during its first year in service and also began operating a longer daily schedule of Salina - Kansas City – Topeka – Kansas City – Salina. The M-10000 CITY OF SALINA was considered a success in the service it operated in and was replaced by a steam-powered train with a capacity of 200 on December 16, 1941. This was a case of the articulated streamliner being replaced by a conventional heavyweight train due to its limited seating capacity. The little three car articulated streamliner was then sent to Omaha and retired. On February 13, 1942 the train was sold to an Omaha scrap dealer for its Aluminum content to help in the war effort.

M-10000 Articulated 600 hp Winton Distillate Engine Power Unit with 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Baggage Room
10400 Articulated 56 Revenue seat Coach
10401 Articulated 56 Revenue seat Coach Buffet Blind End Observation

CB&Q
9900
PIONEER ZEPHYR
(November 11, 1934)
250 miles each way
by Al

The Budd Company of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, delivered the second articulated streamlined train of 1934 to the Burlington in May 1934. The entire three car articulated train was constructed of stainless steel shot welded together. The three car articulated streamliner was built with a Winton 201A 600 hp diesel engine powering an electric generator. The electric power generated by this generator supplied the power to a pair of traction motors mounted on the lead truck. The Shovelnose speedster was named ZEPHYR for ZEPHYRUS the god of the west wind in Greek mythology. The lead unit 9900 contained the shovelnose control cab followed by the engine room a 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment with Storage mail area occupying the remainder of the 9900. The articulated center car 505 rode on shared trucks with the 9900 and trailing 570 cars. The interior of the 505 contained a large Baggage and Express compartment at the forward end of the car followed by a Buffet and 20-revenue seat Coach compartment. The third articulated car number 570 seated 40 in the forward half of the car with the cars center entrance next followed by a 12 seat Smoking Lounge Observation. The beautiful boat tail Observation was built with windows wrapping around the end for viewing the passing countryside, unlike the Union Pacific streamliner with its windowless rear occupied by the trains Buffet.
On the 26th of May 1934 the sleek stainless steel speedster set a dawn to dusk record between Denver and Chicago to open the Century of Progress Exposition in Chicago for its first year, averaging 77.6 mph for the 1,015 miles completed in 13 hours 5 minutes. The entire nation was able to follow the progress of the ZEPHYR on this momentous day live as it happened as a Radio Station had set up a transmitter in the Baggage Room shared with a Donkey named ZEPHYR while broadcasting live to the country. The broadcasts from the speeding train brought people to trackside by the hundreds to catch a glimpse of the speeding silvery flash as it passed. The 9900 ZEPHYR spent the summer at the Chicago Exposition close to the M-10000 also on display for the summer. The two trains were within site of one another at the fair.
After the summer was over the 9900 ZEPHYR became the star of a Hollywood Motion Picture named the SILVER STREAK the name it carried in the movie.
On November 11, 1934 the Burlington ZEPHYR again stole the thunder from rival Union Pacific’s M-10000 when the 9900 ZEPHYR train set entered service between Lincoln –Omaha – Kansas City round trip daily, becoming the first diesel powered streamlined train to enter scheduled service in the world. The 9900 ZEPHYR train set departed Lincoln at 7:30 AM and arrived in Omaha at 8:25 AM; it then departed Omaha at 9:00 AM and arrived in Kansas City at 1:00 PM. The 190-mile trip between Omaha and Kansas City was operated in 240 minutes with six stops. The return trip began with a 2:30 PM departure from Kansas City with a 6:30 PM arrival in Omaha, after a ½ hour pause the 9900 ZEPHYR departed Omaha at 7:00 PM and arrived in Lincoln at 7:55 PM. It is interesting to note that after the M-10000 entered service January 31, 1935 that America’s first two successful streamlined trains operated with Kansas City as one of their terminal cities. In fact the two trains would have been in Kansas City at the same time daily within sight of each other. A fourth articulated car was added to the train in 1936 and the 9900 ZEPHYR spent most of its operational career with this extra articulated car a coach in its consist. The extra car was withdrawn for the period May 31, 1936 to November 7, 1936 when the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR and the 9903 MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR were assigned to service as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS on a fast 16-hour schedule overnight between Chicago and Denver in each direction. When the new DENVER ZEPHYRS entered service on November 18, 1936 the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYRS were returned to their original assignments. The 9900 ZEPHYR became the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR after a couple of years in service.
In 1938 the CB&Q transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to the St. Louis – Kansas City route as the OZARK STATE ZEPHYR operating round trip daily between Missouri’s two largest cities.
In 1942 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was transferred to Nebraska where it was assigned to a Lincoln – McCook daily round trip where it remained until 1949.
In 1949 the CB&Q subsidiary Colorado & Southern leased the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR for one year and assigned it to daily Denver – Cheyenne round trip daily service. On this route it served Boulder, Longmont, Loveland, Fort Collins and Cheyenne. While in this service the train was simply referred to as ZEPHYR service.
When the lease was not renewed the Burlington transferred the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR to service between Galesburg and Quincy, Illinois. It remained in this service until 1953 when it was transferred to St. Joseph, Missouri.
When the CB&Q KANSAS CITY ZEPHYR was inaugurated between Chicago and Kansas City on February 1, 1953 the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was assigned to be the St. Joseph – Brookfield connecting service. The 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR would remain in this service until 1957 when it would begin operating its final scheduled service between St. Joseph and Lincoln round trip daily. Today its permanent home is the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago where it was retired to in 1960. Recently the train was returned to the museum after complete restoration and placed in a new display area in the museums new parking structure.

9900 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Diesel Power Unit with 30’ Railway Post Office Compartment and Storage Mail Compartment
505 Articulated Baggage Buffet 20 Revenue seat Coach
570 Articulated 40 Revenue seat Coach 12 seat Lounge Observation

B&M - MeC
6000
FLYING YANKEE
(April 1, 1935)
by Al

A nearly identical Shovelnose streamlined three car articulated train set to the 9900 PIONEER ZEPHYR was delivered by Budd for the joint ownership of the Boston & Maine – Maine Central for service as the FLYING YANKEE. The 6000 FLYING YANKEE was delivered to the owning Railroads in February 1935 and immediately went on a tour of on line cities of the two railroads. On April 1, 1935 the 6000 FLYING YANKEE entered scheduled service departing Portland at 8:30 AM with arrival in Boston at 10:20 AM. At Noon the 6000 FLYING YANKEE departed Boston arriving in Bangor at 4:45 PM. After a 15minute pause the train departed Bangor for the return to Boston with arrival scheduled for 10:05 PM. At 11:00 PM the 6000 FLYING YANKEE departed Boston and returned to Portland at 12:50 AM ready to begin the daily schedule over again after a 7 hour 40 minute layover.
The FLYING YANKEE was withdrawn from its original route in 1942 shortly after the outbreak of WW II. The train’s capacity was unable to meet the wartime demand for space.
The 6000 then became the MOUNTAINEER and operated for the duration of the war between Boston and Littleton by way of Crawford Notch. The next assignment for the 6000 was as the CHESHIRE between Boston and White River Junction, Vermont round trip daily.
The final scheduled assignment for the 6000 was as the MINUTEMAN round trip daily between Boston and Troy, New York. The original articulated train set was retired from service in 1957 and can be seen to this day on display at a museum in New England.
As this is written the train is being completely restored to its original as built condition, it is planned to operate the train for special occasions after the restoration.

6000 Articulated Shovelnose 600 hp Winton 201 A Diesel Power Unit with Baggage Compartment Buffet and 28 Revenue Coach seats
6000A Articulated 60 Revenue seat Coach
6000B Articulated 30 Revenue seat Coach 20 seat Lounge Observation

TTFN Al
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, June 1, 2006 7:10 AM
Looks like I had better brage in now although I'm only as far as Rob's post from May 30th Classic Steam #19, the Hiram Walker Booze Train. Hi Cindy, just a cuppa Joe and a cruller this a.m. please. Well, I hope by now Tom and Spouse are burning up the miles and the film on their Alaska R.R. journey. I surely bet that if there is a Budd Park Dome car and a ample ration of R.D.C.'s, the trip will be a great pleasur. It's a hard earned respite for them from this hot, sticky early summer. Fog is the only barrier that comes to mind in that still rugged country. Oh, and the occasional landslide can't be ruled out...only kidding. The Bull Moose attacks (head-on) have been greatly reduced during their "rut" since Alaska R.R. now uses "Critter friendly" air chimes and horns.

The C & O has been admirably covered from Mike's always approptiate selection of URL's to the nostalgic approach of CM3 being punctuated by Al and Rob's unfailing additions on rolling stock for both Northern and Southern divisions of the Road.[tup] Dave, good to see ya, do you feel any older? Yes, I too kick myself in the pants for being lethargic about Roads taken fro granted. It was all "high iron" and "varnish" in the 1950's for me.[v] Wow, what opportunities we missed back then. Say, it is very gratifying to see such enthusiastic posting of late. No thanks to me, the Thread seems to picking up from some forlorn periods indeed. I suppose "the road to hell will always be paved with good intentions." Although my vacancy didn't help; the "whirlwind" trip to Apopka paid off in spades for the future. I was given some books that many of you may be familiar with: "The Water Line Route," Chas. M Knoll; "The Twilight of Steam Lcomotives," Ron Ziel; "The Locomotives that Baldwin built." Fred Westing and "A Treasury of Railroad Folklore," B.A. Botkin and Alvin F. Harlow. From these volumes perhaps I may submit some meangingful input in the near future. First, I must check into the copyright permission, of course.

Yes Rob, if the new V.W. Beetle didn't cost as much as a Caddy Coup DeVille in the 90's, I would consider it. So far the Toyota has held up well and with only 78,000 miles, it would be premature to trade it now. Today, June 1st is the last day for buying hurricane emergency supplies with no sales tax charged. There are several items I need and with the cleaning lady coming by this morining, I'll be tied up until this p.m. Just want to wish everyone who makes "Our" Place tick, "good hunting" and a 5 star salute on the quality of your contributions. Toy and Model Trains Day yesterday wasn't a complete "bust" for I received some early (dated 1973) pix from Apopka and the HO layout that "Jack built." BTW, he is travelling to England this Sept. for an excursion ride on the Severn Valley Rwy. The Line runs from Bridgnorth to Kidderrminster via Hampton Loade, Country Park Halt, Highly, Arley, and Bewdley. This is a 16 mile line excursion employing live steam locomotives apparantly (from pix) of the 10 wheeler class. Hopefully, Nick and Pete might peek in and perhaps add more data on this unique operation. For now, it is getting to the errands at hand, then checking in with the salt mine and juggling time frame for greater participation hereabouts.

Boris' shed?[:O] How about camouflage? Oh yes, let's don't foget a big howdy to Jlampke on June 3rd. Even though there may not be a "Bash" as such, at least we can send best wishes. Happy rails to all.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:43 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

One last encore to tempt everyone with again tonight. Part one of th aCataract traction series.i'll rerun part 2 tomorrow.These were the two part series on the Hamilton Ontario Radial rail hub of the early part of the century.

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

.

CLASSIC JUICE # 24 HAMILTON"S ELECTRIC LINES

Despite being Ontario's second largest city. Hamilton is largely forgotten in the rail,industry, yet the raiway history in Hamilton is long and verried and viable. This piece will attempt to show the highlights of Hamilton's lost electric railway heritage.Hamilton was the centre of one of canda's most extensive system of radial electric lines, known locally as the "Cataract". In 1896 the Cataract was first incorporated as the Cataract Power Company to develope hydro-electric power from the cataract at Decew Falls near St Catharines. In 1903 it changed it's name to Hamilton Cataract Light and Traction Company, and brought the separatly operatingradial systems in the area under one corporate banner.

In 1907 they built a four story terminal building in downtown Hamilton on the corner of Catharine and King streets, this building also served as the head office for the various rail lines in the network, and as such was considered the only "grand" station in Canada built exclusivly for the use of radial electric lines.

From this terminal line radiated out from Hamliton easterly to Vineland,southwesterly to Brantford,northwesterly to Dundas,and northeasterly to Oakville.Plans were to expand right to Lake Erie and down south to St Catharines and to Guelph and Toronto. However other jurisdictions and the roads and buses ended these plans. By the late 30's cars and busses had replaced the these electric radial lines.Many indeed say today that with all this infrastructure lost as most of these lines were running on private ROW's imagine how much less gridlock & polluition would plague southern Ontario's roads and highways, had the shortsitedness of ending this form of wide ranged transportation not been so quickly killed off !

Short synopsis of each line now follow. This is part 1. Part 2 will follow.

The Hamilton & Dundas Street Railway Company: Hamilton to Dundas

One of Canada's oldest street railways was the Hamilton & Dundas. It began in 1876 using a device known as a dummy engine. Because many residents(and their horses ) objected to steam engine puffing down the middle of the street,the railway placed the steam locomotive inside the bidy of a streetcar. Which pulled a trailer behind it.This worked well for two decades until 1897 when the line was electrified.

It's route took it from Hatt and Foundery Streets in Dundas, along Hatt St. to Dundas St ,then along Dundas Creek, through Ainslie woods into Hamilton via Aberdeen, Queen,Charlton,Mcnab and Main St's. In the beginning it ended at the GT station on Ferguason,then used the new Terminal station once it was built in 1907.

At it's peak, they would run half hour service.By 1923 bus competition became too much and the service ws ended.Some portions of the trackage were taken over by the TH&B, while the Hamilton Street Railway assumed control of the in city portions of the track.

Hamilton Grimsby & Beamsville Electric Railway Co: Hamilton to Vineland

In 1894 when the radials began running between Hamilton and Grimsby, the HGB became Canada's first major electrified radial railway line. In 1896, it was extended to Beamsville where a single stall car house was built, with a small passemger waiting room attached.For a few yearsn it operated as far as Vineland,anticipating a further expansion to St Catharines. However the municipal council of St Catharines,refuded to front the cash for the necessary bridge to cross twelve mile creek, so the Vineland portion of the line was scrapped.

Many radials carried passengers and freight the HGB was no exception as it had access to the fruitlands between Hamilton and Beamsville.Both the GT and TH&B had connections to the HGB: GT's was at Winnona, and the TH&B's was at their Kineer yard ontop the escarpment in Hamilton. Produce was transfered physically from HGB cars to those of the steam railway's,later the larger HGB cars would pull one or two refer's behind them.

From the new downtown terminal which the HGB began using in 1907, it's route took it along Main St to Sherman, then along Trolley ( now Gage St ) to Lawrence, then east on Lawrence to Bartonville. Here it switched to private ROW to Red Hill, and then back to what's now HWY 8 all the way to Beamsville.Station stops were made at Bartonville,Stoney Creek,Fruitland,Smith's ( site of busy cannery now ED Smith )Winnona,Pattisons,Grimsby,Grimsby Beach,and then the car barn/station at Beamsville.Most of the stations were small leanto type flagstops or located inside an existing line side building.

Like alot of radials it was involved in speacial recreational excurisions;"blossom speacials, trips to Grimsby Beach, and Grimsby Park etc. By 1927, Catract started using busses on some of this route, and following the takeover by Ontario Hydro commission on 1931 the bus line was sold to Grey Coach and this part of the electric line was shut down.

End of Part one.

Rob

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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, June 1, 2006 12:30 AM
Good late evening gents. Figured that i would pop in tonight and help Leon clean up the mess from today.

Pete Great to hear from you over in "Jolly Old" I'm glad to hear that you are having a fabulous time. [tup] can't wait to see the photo's once your back home. Very nice of you to take some time out of your holiday to pop by and say Hi [tup] We will keep the virtual Bantham's well stocked and chilled for you [;)][:D]

Mike Thanks as always to our url,research department. To late to dig through many of them tonight, but thanks for the pop up warning on the second one, I'll be sure to avoid it. I'm gald that you were able to find the extra Mynarski information,his story always has given me goose bumps. That's a wonderfull right up that you found, thanks for sharing it. I'll make sure to order an extra big prime rib in for you on friday night [tup]

Rob
  • Member since
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Posted by wanswheel on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:34 PM
A round for the house, Leon, a name you have in common with the great Leon Bismarck "Bix" Biederbecke.

Pete, always good to see you, enjoy your ride tomorrow.

Al, your post today on dining cars was particularly informative because it captured the essense of so many different trains in a nutshell.

CM3, your fine post on Tuesday prompts "end of an era" photos.

L&N E7 #793 at Cincinnati after last Pan-American, April 30, 1971
http://rrhistorical-2.com/lnhs/images/pict7lg.jpg

Last PennCentral Federal at Boston, April 30, 1971
http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2005070918253712325.jpg&order=byyear&page=4&key=1971

Last Santa Fe Super Chief/El Capitan leaving Chicago, April 30, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr5-48.jpg.49746.jpg

Last UP City train leaving Chicago, April, 30, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr5-35.jpg.28987.jpg

Last UP City of Los Angeles at San Bernardino, May 1, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/3/3093760-R1-E022.jpg.94540.jpg

And not quite the end yet, near enough:

C&O George Washington and conductor at Charlottesville, VA April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/c/CO71042408w.jpg.13165.jpg

C&O train The George pulled by B&O locomotive? at Richmond April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/c/CO71042409w.jpg.86786.jpg

B&O locomotive at Richmond station April 24, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/i/Image7.jpg.24019.jpg

Burlington train west of Naperville, IL April 7, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr445.jpg.51653.jpg

Burlington Western Star at Fargo, ND April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/images2/a/AAA154_2.jpg.21795.jpg

NP Mainstreeter at Fargo, ND April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/images2/0/005_5_2_3.jpg.63860.jpg

NP Mainstreeter at Detroit Lakes, MN April 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/0/002_2_2.jpg.80218.jpg

Penn Central at Albany/Renneslaer March 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/p/PC7103xx30w.jpg.38734.jpg

Metroliner southbound at Princeton Junction, NJ April 12, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/m/Metroliner.jpg.39266.jpg

N&W trains #17 & #3 at Roanoke, VA March 21, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr436.jpg.79067.jpg

D&H possibly Laurentian? at Schenectady March 20, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/d/DH710320w.jpg.24820.jpg

Rock Island train leaving Chicago April 9, 1971 (nice shot of Board of Trade, I remember the view from the top floor when it was still the tallest building in town)
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr452.jpg.63251.jpg

IC train at Chicago April 9, 1971
http://64.246.11.82/images/r/rr473.jpg.54881.jpg

Ted and Rob and Tom, I too was moved by the story of the Lancaster bomber, which I had never heard of until this week. Rob, thanks for posting it.

Andrew Mynarski didn't have to die, and knew he didn't have to die, and then he died in horrible pain, and with the burden of failing to save his friend. War is hell. Hopefully as Andy was dying he had consolation in the knowledge that he at least had tried to save his friend, and possibly a sense that, though a few miles and hours apart, neither he nor his friend will have died alone. For his part, Pat Brophy was loyal, too:
"I'll always believe that a divine providence intervened to save me because of what I had seen - so the world might know of a gallant man who laid down his life for a friend."

Also, in Brophy's words:

"Time froze while I was struggling inside the turret and Andy was fighting to get me out alive, a minute or more had flashed by like a second. Now the last agonizing seconds were like eternity. Prayers and random thoughts raced through my mind. Hail Mary, full of Grace ... I hope Andy got down okay ... Pray for us sinners ... The boys back at the squadron would probably say, 'Brophy? Oh he went for a Burton over Cambrai.'
http://www.constable.ca/mynarski.htm
Mike
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  • From: mid mo
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Posted by pwolfe on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:13 PM
Hi Tom and all.

I have borrowed Alan's computer for a short while, and I have not a Bathams over here yet so I had better get one and get around in.

A Happy Birthday to DAVE.

There has been some great posts and pics while I have been away and I will study them more when I get back.

Between working on the house here I have managed to go on a Steam Tour Sat from Birmingham to York with LMS Jubilee class 4-6-0' Leander' and are going to the Severn Valley Railway tomorrow( they have Bathams there), hopefully there should be some pics from the day.

Its been good to call in Our Place again and I shall have a pint for you all. PETE.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:12 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Another Classic culled from the archieves. This one from our resident story spinner and stand up comedian Barndad Doug[:D][8)][;)]. Enjoy it all again, hopefully the real Doug will be back with us in a few days ( daze )

Rob


QUOTE: Originally posted by barndad



The True Story of Jesse James, Train Robber Sep 1932 Railroad Stories

The James homestead at Kearney, Mo. Where the notorious Jesse spent his boyhood


There were few human touches in the criminal career of Jesse Woodson James, train bandit, whose gang operated for fifteen years in Missouri and Kansas, occasionally making forays into near-by states.

The search for this outlaw chief was one of the keenest this country has ever known. He mocked railroad bulls, the police, the sheriffs. In vain did the Pinkertons send out their best men. Some never returned. Detectives bombed Jesse’s house, tearing off his mother’s right arm and murdering his half-brother. A total of $75,000 was offered for the arrest and conviction of Jesse and his older brother, Frank.

Born in 1847 at Kearney, Mo., Jesse was only four when his father, a clergyman, went to California in search of gold and died there. The evil influence in the early lives of the James boys may be traced to William G. Quantrill, known as “the bloodiest man in the Civil War.” Quantrill was a Confederate guerilla leader. His outstanding feat was the sacking of Lawrence, Kan., a peaceful town which he invaded in 1863 at the head of about 450 men, including Frank James. They killed 182 of the population in one day!

Two months afterward, Jesse, a lad of fifteen, was plowing a cornfield when Federal militia decided to “teach the cub a lesson” – apparently for no reason except that his big brother was with Quantrill. Jesse was lashed until the blood came. His stepfather, a kind-hearted country doctor, was strung up to a tree.

The future brigand vowed vengeance. Young as he was, he joined Quantrill’s irregulars and fought under the banner until the was ended. Then he tried to surrender but was shot twice in the chest – wounds which never completely healed.

An outcast from society, Jesse organized some of Quantrill’s men into that terrible murderous band which held up railroad trains, banks, and stagecoaches. Thus “Jesse James” became a name of terror. No railroad man passing through the Middle West in those days knew when his train would be held up or when he himself would become a target for bandit bullets. An old minister who had known the desperado since childhood once remonstrated with him: “Jesse, why don’t you stop these things?” The reply was: “If you tell me how I can stop, I’ll gladly do so – but I don’t aim to stop right under a noose!”

That was it. Once embarked upon a series of crimes, there was no turning back. Jesse James lived perpetually in the shadow of the gallows and within earshot of whistling bullets. He was determined not to be taken alive – and he never was! Jesse James never saw the inside of a jail, although he carried so many bullet wounds that people said you could dig into his body almost anywhere and strike lead.

The first train robbery which can be traced to the redoubtable Jesse occurred on the Kansas Pacific Railroad on December 12, 1874, near Muncie, Kan., a flag stop ten miles from the old union depot at Kansas City, Mo. There were six highwaymen, said to be the James brothers, Clell Miller, two of the three Younger brothers, Cole and Frank, and a switchman named Bud McDaniels.

In some was Bud had learned that a train leaving Denver with a shipment of gold dust would pass Muncie at 4:45pm. Six horsemen, armed with carbines and heavy revolvers, masked with red bandanas, rode over there and got busy. As a curtain-raiser they robbed Purdee’s general store of $24 and forced the proprietor to help them pile a lot of ties upon the track. At the same time they set out the flag at the station, to make doubly sure the train would stop.

Engineer Robert Murphy, on the train from the West, seeing the flag and the obstruction on the track, closed his throttle and ground to a stop. The robbery had been well planned. While one man climbed into the cab and covered the engine crew, the others cowed the trainmen and passengers. A freight train was close behind, so Conductor Brinkenhoff started back to flag it. “Where the hell you going?” Jesse demanded, firing a shot in his general direction. Brinkenhoff explained. The bandit leader was unconvinced. “That’s O.K.,” injected Switchman McDaniels, who knew his railroading. “He just wants tuh head off another train an’ keep it from crashing into our rear.”

“Well, he better watch his step,” growled Jesse. “All right, let him go.” Meanwhile the crew were forced to uncouple the express car and pull it away a short distance from the rest of the train, and the looting began. Frank Webster, The Wells, Fargo & Co. express messenger, had been caught unprepared, with the doors of his car unlocked. Two ruffians leaped into the car. “Let’ssee how quick you can open that safe, fella,” said one of them. “We’re in a hell of a big hurry.” “But I don’t know the combination,” protested Webster. “i-“

“Maybe this’ll teach you!” bellowed the thug, striking him on the head with a revolver butt. Dazed, the messenger did as he was told. The booty consisted of $30,000 in gold dust, $20,000 in currency, and jewelry valued at about $5,000. All of this was dumped into a wheat sack – the usual receptacle carried by the James boys on their raids – and the rest of the car was searched thoroughly. It contained nothing else of value except some silver bricks, which were too heavy to carry off. As they left, Jesse flung a parting threat at the express messenger: “If you poke your lousy head out of that door we’ll shoot it off!”

Meanwhile, two members of the gang had been robbing the passengers of money and watches, which they returned upon learning what had been taken from the express car. “We’re not after chicken feed!” they said. To delay pursuit, the brigands shot two horses which they found in the vicinity, then mounted their own steeds and galloped off. Waving a greeting to the engineer, one of the gunmen called out: “You can back up now and get your train,” and to the scared passengers he shouted: “Give our love to the folks in Kansas City.”

Murphy lost no time in hooking up and making the fastest possible run to Kansas City, but it was too late for posses to pick up the trail. The James gang had crossed over into Missouri and were hiding in the mountains. Two or three days later Bud McDaniels boasted to his girl friend in Kansas City that he had acquired a lot of jewelry, and made a date to take her on a buggy ride. But she did not keep the date. Instead, she went out with another man.

Bud was furious. Here he was ready to show a lady a good time, with lots of money, and she goes off with some other guy! Can you beat that? Felling the need for consolation, he drove over to a saloon and soon got tanked up. Late that night he was arrested for reckless driving and drunkenness. Searched at the police station, he was found to have more than $1,000 in cash, two six-shooters, and pieces of jewelry which were identified as part of the loot taken at Muncie.

“I bought that stuff for Susanna,” he insisted, “but I don’t give a *** who gets it now. She’s gone back on me.” This explanation seemed fishy to the authorities, who made an investigation, the upshot of which McDaniels was indicted for complicity in the holdup. The unlucky switchman escaped from a deputy sheriff before being placed on trial, but was located a few weeks later and was shot to death while resisting arrest.

[:I] An old hillbilly farmer had a wife who nagged him unmercifully. From morning till night (and sometimes later), she was always complaining about something. The only time he got any relief was when he was out plowing with his old mule. He tried to plow a lot.
One day, when he was out plowing, his wife brought him lunch in the field. He drove the old mule into the shade, sat down on a stump, and began to eat his lunch. Immediately, his wife began haranguing him again. Complain, nag, nag; it just went on and on. All of a sudden, the old mule lashed out with both hind feet; caught her smack in the back of the head. Killed her dead on the spot.
At the funeral several days later, the minister noticed something rather odd. When a woman mourner would approach the old farmer, he would listen for a minute, then nod his head in agreement; but when a man mourner approached him, he would listen for a minute, then shake his head in disagreement. This was so consistent, the minister decided to ask the old farmer about it.
So after the funeral, the minister spoke to the old farmer, and asked him why he nodded his head and agreed with the women, but always shook his head and disagreed with all the men. The old farmer said: "Well, the women would come up and say something about how nice my wife looked, or how pretty her dress was, so I'd nod my head in agreement".
"And what about the men?" the minister asked.
"They wanted to know if the mule was for sale". [:I]
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 12:03 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !

Here's another Classic steamer for you all to mull over this afternoon. Cindy lets keep those frosty mugs full for the trackgangs what with the heat today, [8D][:0][xx(]I'm sure that they all have a thirst.[;)]


QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

Allright then Leon another Keith's please. One more bot of steam from the vault this evening I think.

CLASSIC STEAM # 20 THE BUFFALO BRANTFORD & GODERICH


The BB&G : Fort Erie to Stratford

In the 1850's there was all sorts of speculation over where new rail lines were going to be built./ As the railroad building bug had bitten hard. As the Grand Trunk and Chief Rival Great Western Railway began to build their main routes, the various towns and villages clamoured to get on the lines.Despite the various municipalities wi***o participate in and welcome the railway's to town, the land owners tended to hol dout for top dollar forcing the railways to give many of them a wide berth. Despite the want this was not an exception with the merchants of Brantford.

Tired of shipping their wares and importing raw materials along the slow and seasonal Grand River Canal ( barge canal it's remainder is at the end of my street ), they demanded the fast year round access to markets that the railway's could provide. In 1849 when the Great Western was surveying a route which would pass north of Brantford , the group ( merchants ) formed a company to raise money for a railway to Link Buffalo with Goderich on Lake Huron. to thier delight this initiative met with the favour in both communities and with most of the other municipalities along the proposed line.

Surveys began, starting in Fort Erie, then west to the Grand River where the surveyors followed the east bank of the river into Brantford. the line then crossed the Grand at Paris before angling northwesterly into Stratford. In Stratford it met a roadblock named John Gywnn, who was trying to promote another railway that would run from Toronto to Guelph then on to Goderich. He lobbied parliamment to deny the BBG permission to proceed beyond Stratford. Gwynn failed,and the legislature approved the BBG. Also there were no govt, funds involved in the construction. The BBG was the only railway of it's day built without gov. money.

In 1854, before the Grand Trunk even opened it's Montreal - Toronto line the first wood burning steamer pulled into Brantford from Buffalo. The newspaper's of the day tell of a gala celebration and fireworks in fron t of the court house. With a Grand Ball starting at 8pm in the second story of the depots machine shop ! twop abnds one from Buffalo the other the Brantford Philharmonic and 1500 guests !

Two months later the railroads problems continued. The railway buildings were set ablaze and destroyed. Then when they reached Stratford, in sept., it came face to face with the Grand Trunk which uncerimoniously removed the BBG's rails. The BBG's boss then ordered his local contractor to tear up te Grand Trunk aand relay the BBG, and set men to watch it. The GT had plans of it's own, and sent two carloads of armed and drunken navies. However cooler heads prevailed and the confrontation did not happen.

In Ridgeway ( near Ft Erie )later the same year 30 BBG labourers angry atv not being paid began to rip up tracks. The BBG then brought in scab workjers to repair the damage guarded by 25 speacial constibles. Theifght that ensued left one dead aand several injured.

In 1858 the line finally reached Goderich and instantly hit the profit column. The new terminus at Goderich allowed the BBG to access the Lake freighters which now could make two trips a year instead of one ( sailing vessels ).Townsfolk also could ride the rails to the various beaches and resorts along the Lake shore, something many could not do before the railway.

At Fort Erie, a ferry ( BBG owned) would shuttle people accross the entrance of the Niagara river from Buffalo to a new warf terminal in Ft Eries Downtown, and then later to the GT's Victoria later Bridgeburg station ( approx where the peace bridge is today )


From Ft Erie the line ran strait accross country to Port Colbourne where the first station on the line sat at a diamond ( TH&B)on the east side of the Welland canal. This lione was now called the Buffalo and Lake Huron ( just before the 1869 takeover by the GT ) Mnay local resorts an destinations grew out of this line, Ft Erie racetrack,Crystal Beach amusement park ( & town ) the US Based Humberstone resort at Humberstone, now part of Pt Colbourne. A street is still called Tennessee ave there. Another flag stop called Lorraine was set up to serve a US enclave ( summer homes ) called Point Albino which still refuses non residents access along their private road to a lovely old lighthouse at the point. Which has been designated a National Historical Sight

West of Port Colbourne the BBG established a station at Wainfleet then as it approached the Grand River at Dunnville it made use of the already established river port facilities there and provided transport for local fish and manufactured goods. At Cannfield JCt abit further along, the BBG crossed the Canada Southern and the Canada Air Line . stopping at Port Dover,Caladonia,Cainsville and then finally Brantord.From Brantford it moved onto Paris amd crossed the grand over the high level bridge ( still in use today )before meeting the Great Western at Paris Jct.
From Paris the line continued accross the fertile farm belt to Stratford then onto Guelph and Toronto.

The line is still part of the Corridor 90% of which is still intact. the main Toronto-Buffalo mainline of the CN today.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:41 AM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE !
Another encore from the back pages.Another Southwestern Ontario steam gem, originally posted on page 226.
Rob

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy



CLASSIC STEAM # 14 THE CANADA SOUTHERN ST CLAIR BRANCH


Until 1960 the onlooker would have seen plumes of smoke rising from the stacks of steam engines, or exhaust from diesels trailing strings of passenger cars and boxcars.This was the Candaa southern's St Clair Branch. Part of NYC's Canadian holdings.

It was one of the several southern Ontario branchlines that the founders thought would be a convienient shortcut accross ontario between American cities. In this CSR branches case Buffalo and Chicago. It was launched by Canadians William Thompson and Adam Crooke, albeit financed by the NYC.


While the mainline of the CSR ran arrow strait from Niagara Falls to Windsor, this St Clair branch veered northwestward from a junction just west of St Thomas ON to the St Clair River. Here, at a point on the railroad called Courtright ( named after chief financial contributor Milton Courtright ) the railroad hopped to establish a major rail terminus,with abridge to carry traffic accross the busy river to St Clair on the Michigan side.From there trains would continue on west to Chicago and points further west.


The American link failed however, and the Windsor route with it's tunnel ( GT ) under the Detroit River earned the bulk of the traffic. The grand scheme of a bridge over the river was reduced to barge service. It operated accross the river between Courtright and St Clair for a few years till it burned and sank. With it sank the last vestiges of the American link.

The CSR had pinned it's early hopes for revenue on the oil boom that had started in the early 1860's which put places like Oil Springs and Petrolia on the map. To provide easier access to these prospering places, a new line, The Chatham Sarnia & Erie ( CSE) , was created. Originating at a place called Shrewsbury on Lake Erie,it was intended to pass through Oil Springs, Petrolia and terminate at Sarnia; however, the project never went beyond short spurs from the St Clair Branch, south to Oil Springs and North to Petrolia.

Later , when the oil industry moved to Sarnia, the CSE was absorbed by the Canada Southern,which rerouted the unbuilt section to bypass the oil fields and follow instead the St Clair River into Sarnia. Finally in 1960, the whistles fell silent on the CSR's St Clair Branch and the track was lifted and the stations removed.

Enjoy Rob

Researched with the help of Ron Brown's Ghost Railway's of Ontario- good general reference books on the obscure and unusual rail lines. Two Books Volume 1 and 2 highly recomended reading for those wanting to learn of the Ghosts of railways past.
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Posted by trolleyboy on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 9:31 AM
Good morning gents. I see that tilla , & cashinator are not empty so at least we can cover the flights over for Tom and his bride [tup][:D] Been a fairly steady morning so far which is good given our depleted resorces,kinda say's allot about this group I would say. Thank-you all for your continuing support [tup]

Al Wonderfull , streamlinner car info as per usual sir [bow] I think that we can spring for a piant job for Boris's shed,just nothing gaudy we do have to keep him calm. I'm thinking that Pullman green might be a good choice what do the rest of you think ?I think that Pikes day will be a minor bit this week, as always though Wed, are wide open for full disscussion of ebverything classic. [tup]

CM3 Thanks for stopping by this morning sir. You sir are the " Old Reliable "of this group fer sure fer sure. I'd love to read some of your experiances down along the L&N. What beautifull country they served, and they were an Alco heavy railroad ! That's two definate [tup] for any railway in my mind. I'm glad that you dropped your "thots" of the day upon us, we have been without Doug's jokes good bad or otherwise for a while and needed the shot in the giggle bone.

Ted I had wondered where you had gotten to. Now if we can only find Nick.I'll drop him an e-mail and see how the land lies.Time for a new Volkswagon by the sounds of it Ted [:D] A hot yellow convertable beetle should work well for you in Florida [tup] Convertable bugs have other fringe benefits as well [;)][:P] Right Cindy [?]Anywho those were pictures to keep I must say. i have just got back the few shots I took of the rendezvous, I must say that for some reason I didn't take many, too much chat I think [;)]I'll post the good one's on Sunday.

Rob
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    January 2001
  • From: WV
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Posted by coalminer3 on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:56 AM
Good Morning Barkeep and All Present; coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

The weather here for the past few days feels more like August than May; hope our ‘steamed proprietor has his industrial strength ‘skeeter killer!

Thanks to all for kind words re my C&O post.

Rob – Thanks for sharing the Andrew Mynarski story. As do more than a few others in this group, I have an interest in things mechanical and certainly in military history, etc.

Dave – I know what you mean about pre-merger lines. The biggest problem with “chasing” trains here is that a lot of locations are heard to reach unless you have a guide or know the area well. I was fortunate in having a guide when I moved here yrs. ago; now I get to be guide for folks sometimes.

I have a deep affection for the L&N (pre-merger) as I was fortunate to have access to a lot of places that others did not. I need to write some of that up some day as well. The folks who worked for the “Old Reliable” were dedicated, knowledgeable, and willing to let me “tag along,” especially when they found I didn’t mind getting my hands dirty.

There were a fair amount of former NC&StL employees still around as well, as the N&C had been merged into the L&N not that long b4 I moved to Nashville. That was a whole different world heading across the mountains into Georgia – lovely country, some excellent people to be with, and some real hard railroading as well.

Al – Thanks for the car information; always appreciated.

I don’t have anything to add to the model section today, but here are a few points to ponder.

Deep Thoughts for Those Who Take Life Way Too Seriously
1. Save the whales. Collect the whole set.
2. A day without sunshine is like....night.
3. On the other hand, you have different fingers.
4. Remember, half the people you know are below average.
5. He who laughs last thinks slowest.
6. Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm.
7. Support bacteria. They're the only culture some people have.
8. A clear conscience is usually the sign of a bad memory.
9. How many of you believe in psycho kinesis?...Raise my hand.
10. OK...so what's the speed of dark?
11. When everything is coming your way, you're in the wrong lane.
12. Everyone has a photographic memory. Some just don't have film.
13. How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges.
14. What happens if you get scared half to death twice?
15. I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder.
16. Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?
17. Inside every older person is a younger person wondering what happened.
18. Just remember---if the world didn't suck, we would all fall off.
19. Light travels faster than sound. That is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
20. Life isn't like a box of chocolates....it's more like a jar of jalapeno's. What you do today, might burn your***tomorrow

Work safe
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 8:13 AM
Just back late last night from a "spur of the moment, seat of the pants" visit with friends in Apopka, FL. I had little warning of this "last second" invitation to stay for a couple of days with the fellow I mentioned in a previous post. Only now have I reached Mike's post of May 30th on the C & O which followed Tom's incredible "70" pix of the Air Museum which Tom, Rob, Heather and I experienced earlier this month. I can tell all of you that it was a very emotionally moving event. In particular the story of the coragious actions supporting the Lancaster bomber prominently displayed, caught me with a "lump in my throat." Indeed,Tom, this is another case of being even better "the second time around."[^] Rob, your descriptions surpass the various Museum brochures as well.[tup] X a google. I am typing "on borrowed time" at the moment but I couldn't let Tom's departure slip by without relating my fondest wishes for a bon voyage to Alaska with high hopes for a safe and rewarding rail venture there. Know that I join the others in wishing you and your "better half" a memorable adventure. I can't tell you and Rob how "close to home" your efforts on the synopsis of our first Rendesvous in Toronto is appreciated. Yes, the pix are now "on file" for review any time for the future...keepers for sure. I'm having some car problems and must drop the Crayola off at the Toyota service center this morning. I will return a.s.a.p. for a proper post and catch up to the current status of the latest posts. For now, I must appologize for the untimely and "out of the blue" event which kept me away for a couple of days. In the meantime, it will be more review and getting up to speed for me. Have a wonderful trip Tom, and here is a special meaning for the salutation: "Happy Rails."
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Posted by passengerfan on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 7:35 AM
Good Morning Gang and hope this finds the Captain and Mrs. enjoying his vacation. I am really envious as it has been a few years since I was last in Alaska. I have to say I miss it. Enjoy Tom you earned it.

I know Wednesday is Model Pike day but since I don't have a model trains will put something else out. Since Rob is watching the bar no free drinks. Maybe we should get together and at least paint Boris' shed in back of the Bar.

STREAMLINED DINING
& LOUNGE CARS
OF THE UNITED STATES
& CANADA
By Al

INTRODUCTION

The streamlined Dining and Lounge cars came about in the natural evolution of the streamlined trains. After all if one is to have a streamlined train then a streamlined Dining and Lounge car is necessary to go along with the streamlined headed cars, streamlined coaches and sleeping cars.
The two earliest modern streamliners the UP M-10000 (later CITY OF SALINA) and CB&Q 9900 (later PIONEER ZEPHYR) each provided limited food service and this was served at ones seat from a small buffet in each train. The articulated M-10000 buffet was in the third cars Bullet shaped rear end. The articulated stainless steel 9900 ZEPHYR buffet was located in the forward end of that trains second car. The M-10000 and 9900 ZEPHYR trains provided limited beverage service. Even though prohibition ended in 1933 the territory the M-10000 operated in was mostly Kansas and this state was still dry. The 9900 ZEPHYR on the other hand served alcoholic beverages in the first two rows of coach seats and in the Parlor Lounge since it operated in Nebraska, Iowa and Missouri all wet states. In fact the 9900 ZEPHYR served alcohol on every route it operated in. Probably the most well remembered route operated by the 9900 ZEPHYR was as the ADVANCE DENVER ZEPHYR along with the MARK TWAIN ZEPHYR on a fast 16-hour schedule overnight between Denver and Chicago while the CB&Q awaited delivery of there new streamlined DENVER ZEPHYRS.
The first lightweight streamlined trains to provide streamlined dining –lounge cars were the Milwaukee Road HIAWATHAS of May 29, 1935. Each of the two HIAWATHA train sets carried a 48-seat TIP TOP TAP Tavern Lounge Café as the first car behind the streamlined 4-4-2 locomotives tender.
Some will argue that the TWIN ZEPHYRS introduced April 21, 1935 were the first streamlined trains with a dining-lounge. Actually they had a four seat buffet where one could sit at a lunch counter and order food or beverage, but the vast majority of passengers of these trains were served at ones seat like the previous 9900 ZEPHYR.
The M-10001 CITY OF PORTLAND operated with an articulated 30-seat dining 10-seat lounge car for the first class sleeping car passengers, while coach passengers were once again served at their seats airline style from the buffet in the trains blind rear end observation.
The B&O ROYAL BLUE introduced June 24, 1935 featured a 9-seat lunch counter 32-seat dining car. The ROYAL BLUE operated a daily Jersey City – Washington round trip.
The Alton a wholly owned subsidiary of the B&O at the time introduced an identical train to the ROYAL BLUE named the ABRAHAM LINCOLN between Chicago and St. Louis round trip daily beginning July 1, 1935. The only difference in the two trains was in the material they were constructed of, the B&O ROYAL BLUE was built using mostly aluminum with a steel center sill while the C&A ABRAHAM LINCOLN was constructed entirely of Cor-Ten steel.
The articulated IC GREEN DIAMOND of May 17, 1936 featured an articulated 44-seat coach with 16-seat dinette section at the rear. The kitchen was located in the car to the rear along with an 8-seat dinette section, 18-revenue seat parlor 4-seat lounge observation.
The NYC would introduce the first streamlined twin-unit Dining car with the introduction of the MERCURY July 15, 1936 between Cleveland and Detroit round trip daily. Car 1003 featured 18-revenue coach seats and a large kitchen-pantry. The trailing car 1004 featured 64-dining seats. The MERCURY was the first streamlined train to have one entire car devoted to lounge space the 1015 TOLEDO a 31-seat tavern lounge car.
First trains to introduce streamlined 48-seat dining cars were the CMSTP&P HIAWATHAS of October 11, 1936 operating between Chicago and Minneapolis.
The 48-seat and 36-seat dining cars would become the two standard sizes during the streamline era.
First streamlined train to introduce Parlor-Buffet and Lounge facilities all in one car was the CB&Q DENVER ZEPHYRS of November 7, 1936. These cars featured 10-seat Parlor-Buffet 31-seat Lounge Observations bringing up the markers of these overnight speedsters between Denver and Chicago nightly in each direction.
The first streamlined SP DAYLIGHTS of March 21, 1937 provided a 24-seat Lunch Counter 18-seat Tavern Lounge car and a 40-seat Dining car. Hardly adequate when one considers a sold-out DAYLIGHT carried 392-coach passengers and 57-parlor car passengers. And the DAYLIGHTS rarely ran less than full in each direction daily.
Passengers lucky enough to ride the first streamlined AT&SF SUPER CHIEF rode in true luxury in their 39-3/4 hour dash between Chicago and Los Angeles. Only 121 sleeping car passengers were carried per trip. But those 121- passengers were provided Bar-Lounge facilities for 25-passengers, a 36-seat dining car, and a sleeper-lounge observation with lounge seating for 13.
For the 216-passengers of the streamlined all-room TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED a 38-seat Dining car that doubled as a nightclub after the dinner sittings were completed. Two separate bar–lounges were also provided for passenger enjoyment one seating 30 the other 32.
The first of the popular seven-car coach streamliners the SAL SILVER METEOR provided revenue seating for 280 passengers with a Tavern Lounge seating 30. Additional 30-Lounge seats were located in the rear coach- Observation. A 48-seat Dining car provided food service at reasonable prices for the trips between New York and Miami and New York and St. Petersburg.
Another luxury train that operated for two winter seasons only was the ARIZONA LIMITED operating every other day between Chicago and Phoenix over the CRI&P-SP route. The first season this train operated it provided 93 passengers per trip with a 36-seat Dining car and the Sleeper Lounge Observation provided seating for 27.
The Southern Pacific DAYLIGHTS of 1940 introduced the first triple-unit dining sets. The three articulated cars consisted of an 80-seat Coffee Shop car featuring tables for four at one end, at the other end was a 72-seat dining room car with tables for four. The center car was a kitchen with pantries at each end to serve the dining and coffee shop cars.
The 1940 DAYLIGHTS carried a separate 68-seat Tavern Lounge car. The capacity of the 1940 DAYLIGHTS was 354 in coach and 54 in the parlors.
In July 1941 the SP introduced the new all room streamlined LARKS between Los Angeles and Oakland-San Francisco nightly in each direction. These trains provided sleeping accommodations for 283 passengers. Mid-train was located the triple-unit LARK Club. Each provided crew dormitory space and the kitchen in the first unit, followed by a 48-seat dining room car followed by the third of the articulated cars that contained a 48-seat tavern lounge with bar. Since the LARK departed after most peoples dinner hour the dining unit served as additional tavern lounge space in the evening. In turn the lounge space could be set up for the breakfast crowd in the mornings. The LARK Sleeper-Lounge Observations that operated between Los Angeles and Oakland provided a buffet with seating for 27. This operated as mostly a lounge car in the evening but was fully capable of serving any dinner menu item if called upon to do so. In the mornings breakfast was served before arrival in Los Angeles or Oakland.
Among the first postwar streamlined trains introduced were the L&N seven car HUMMING BIRDS between New Orleans and Cincinnati. These coach streamliners carried 288-passengers and provided those passengers with one 48-seat Dining car and a 52-seat Tavern Lounge car. These diesel-powered streamliners were introduced November 17, 1946 along with two identical consists for the new L&N-NC&STL GEORGIAN trains between St. Louis and Atlanta daily in each direction.
The big breakthrough for coach passengers came December 12, 1947 with the introduction of the world’s first streamlined dome equipped trains the VISTA DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS of the CB&Q. These trains operated twice daily round trip service between Chicago and the Twin Cities. The first car in each seven-car stainless steel streamliner was a baggage-buffet 24-seat Lounge car. The sixth car in each consist was a 48-seat Dining car. Each of the trains other five cars featured 24-non revenue seats in the domes. The new VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS provided revenue seating for 244-passengers and non-revenue seating for 192.
The VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR introduced March 20, 1949 was America’s first cruise train operated jointly by the CB&Q-D&RGW-WP between Chicago and San Francisco provided space for 267 revenue passengers with 221 non-revenue seats available for the passengers in Domes, Dining and Lounge areas.
Probably the ultimate in lounging space was provided by the 1955 version of the GN EMPIRE BUILDER between Chicago and Seattle-Portland with non-revenue seating in the Dining, lounge and domes for 279 passengers.
Three railroads the ACL, PRR and C&O provided cars with theaters, and the latter two play areas for children.
The railroads offered a variety of dining cuisine following the second world war ranging from Automat cars, Buffets, Hamburger Grill, Grill, Lunch Counters, to full Dining facilities.
Many railroads took great pride in the food they served employing some of the finest chefs in the land.
In the case of the Canadian Pacific Railway they owned some of the finest hotels in Canada. These hotels including the 1,500 rooms ROYAL YORK hotel in Toronto, it had multiple dining rooms and employed some of the world’s leading chef’s and was the training ground for many of the railways onboard chefs.
Not to be outdone rival Canadian National Railway also owned many fine first class hotels coast-to-coast in Canada and like the Canadian Pacific they were the training ground for many of the Railways fine Chefs.
Probably few railroad dining cars made any money for their owning roads following WW II. But those railroads that realized they had to supply food anyway why not supply the best. These railroads seemed to enjoy a loyal passenger following more so than those who let the dining and lounge cars become economy type operations.
Many railroads did an excellent job providing dining car service throughout the streamline era to the very end that did their commissary departments proud. Among these railroads were the GN, NP, CB&Q, UP, AT&SF, IC, ACL, SAL, SOU, PRR, NYC, CN, CP, D&RGW, L&N and WP and certain others were outstanding. Those railroads that gave up on passengers was reflected in their dining and lounge service such as the SP and they’re hated Hamburger Grill cars and even more detested Automat cars that followed. The MP, SL-SF, KATY, C&NW, C&EI, CMSTP&P, CRI&P, CGW, and B&M left much to be desired in the final years before Amtrak.
No railroads commissary departments were revenue producers after about 1955, but those that chose to set only the finest cuts of beef, fre***rout, pheasant etc. before their passengers continued to enjoy reasonable passenger loads. Their seemed to be a direct correlation between passenger loads and dining car services provided. This was particularly true where two or more railroads served the same origin and destination terminals, those serving the finest fare operated with the larger passenger counts even in some cases where that train may be operated on a slower schedule.
The B&O was a fine example of a railroad that put a great deal of emphasis on fine dining and enjoyed reasonable passenger loyalty as a direct result. The two major rivals of the B&O the PRR and NYC offered faster trains in direct competition but only their finest trains such as the TWENTIETH CENTURY LIMITED and BROADWAY LIMITED provided cuisine with real class.
Single dining cars of the streamlined passenger trains ranged from 36-seat through 48-seat to 56-seat dining cars. The latter were only popular on two roads the C&NW and the UP. In the case of the UP 56-seat dining cars they only numbered two and were assigned to the 1941 CITY OF LOS ANGELES trains. The large capacity diners assigned to CITY OF LOS ANGELES service were unable to stock enough food for a Chicago-Los Angeles run. Instead these dining cars replenished their stocks at such cities as Omaha, Cheyenne and Salt Lake City enroute.
Those 56-seat dining cars purchased by the C&NW were assigned to the 400’s between Chicago and the Twin Cities. With the distance only 400 miles these cars were able to carry enough food for the trip. If additional items were needed they were placed on the train for the return trips the next day.
The 36-seat Dining cars were popular with many railroads that operated long distance services, but the 48-seat dining car was by far the most popular of the streamlined dining cars.
The CB&Q offered Budd built stainless steel 48-seat Dining cars beginning with the postwar VISTA-DOME TWIN ZEPHYRS. In the case of the CB&Q-D&RGW-WP VISTA-DOME CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR offered a 48-seat dining car that during the slower winter season offered 32 dining seats and four booths for four serving cocktails. In the busy summer months the four booths were utilized for dining as well increasing the dining cars capacity to 48 per seating. The advantage to this type of arrangement was less crew being required during the slower winter months.
Of course the Northeast to Florida and Midwest to Florida streamliners busy seasons were the winter months opposite to the western trains. The ACL and SAL utilized furloughed Dining car crews from several Northeastern railroads during the winter months in their Florida streamliners. This meant that the ACL and FEC did not need to furlough dining car crews in the summer as they simply returned to the Northeastern railroads they worked for.
Many railroads offered more than a single dining car per train consist, often providing two separate dining cars and one or two lounges. Several of the Western railroads provided separate dining facilities for the coach and first class sleeping car passengers. Often the coach dining facilities were of the lunch-counter or coffee shop type and the same car in many cases provided lounge space as well for the coach passengers.
This was true of the Santa Fe coach streamliner EL CAPITAN. The first of these coach streamliners introduced in February 1938 was five cars with a revenue passenger capacity of 186. A single lunch-counter dining car doubled as a Tavern-Lounge car during non-meal hours. Following WW II the postwar EL CAPITANS grew to fourteen car streamliners with a passenger capacity of 230 passengers. To provide food service for these passengers the Santa Fe provided two lunch-counter dining cars and a complete Tavern Lounge car as well.
Popular in the Northeastern United States were the streamlined Grill Dining cars operated by the NYNH&H and NYC. The New Haven operated their Grill Dining cars and Dining cars with waitresses in the New York-Boston corridor. The C&O operated the PERE MARQUETTES with waitresses as well.
Other railroads turned to Twin Unit dining cars to serve the hungry passengers. The Union Pacific first introduced streamlined twin unit dining cars in 1937 in the CHALLENGER trains between Chicago and Los Angeles. These two cars were connected by a drawbar and a single number covered both cars 5100 – 5105. The first unit contained crew dormitory accommodations and the Kitchen. The second unit was a 68-seat dining room car. Other railroads such as the PRR, NYC, ACL, IC, and B&O operated streamlined twin unit dining cars over the years.
Only one railroad would ever operate triple unit dining cars and triple unit Dining-Lounge cars and that railroad was the Southern Pacific. They operated the triple-unit dining-kitchen-coffee shop cars in the DAYLIGHT, SAN JOAQUIN DAYLIGHT and SHASTA DAYLIGHT. The SP operated the triple units with Dormitory Kitchen-Dining-Lounge arrangements in the overnight LARK and CASCADE trains operating in California and Oregon only.
Today both Amtrak and Via Rail Canada provide dining car crews of either sex. In the case of Amtrak they are assigned to coast-to-coast services while Via Rail Canada operates waitresses on day trains only as they do not provide separate dormitory space such as the Amtrak Superliners provide.
The Superliner Dining cars are equipped with full kitchen and pantry on the lower level and 80-seat dining room on the upper level. Two electric dumbwaiters provide food delivery from the lower level to the upper level smart waiters (the ones who collect the tips) to serve the passengers. These are the largest capacity single dining cars operated by any railroad. Santa Fe operated similar capacity dining cars when they introduced the Hi-Level EL CAPITAN train sets in 1956. These same Hi-Level EL CAPITAN trains introduced the “TOP OF THE CAP” Lounge cars with a Newsstand, Bar and 60-seat Lounge on the upper level. On these cars lower level was a Buffet with an additional 28-seat Lounge.
Amtrak copied the earlier Santa Fe Hi-Levels when they invested in Superliners for western runs and some eastern runs where clearances were not a problem. The Superliners are slightly higher than the Hi-Levels but after conversion to HEP they operate without any problems in the Superliner consists.
The Canadian National Railroad 48-seat dining cars on the transcontinental and maritime trains doubled as bingo parlors in the evening. Although prizes were small they were quite well received. The grand prize on the western trains was usually a free dinner in the diner and on the maritime trains the grand prize was usually a free breakfast.
Another service provided on long distance CN trains was free coffee or tea and pastries for first class passengers each morning in their lounge car between Breakfast and Lunch giving sleeping car passengers a chance to become acquainted with one another. Via Rail Canada continues these Canadian National services to this day. Probably the most luxurious dining cars in regular service today are those rebuilt former Canadian Pacific Budd built dining cars having been rebuilt by Via Rail Canada.
The Via Rail Canada CANADIAN is probably one of the last true luxury trains operating today as rebuilt and HEP equipped.
Many railroads turned to the combination dining-lounge cars for food and beverage service. One of the major railroads to put their faith in these type cars was the Missouri Pacific-Texas & Pacific. These two railroads owned a total of two streamlined dining cars and twelve streamlined dining-lounge cars. The dining –lounge cars were assigned to the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE, COLORADO EAGLE, and TEXAS EAGLES 21-22. Only TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 carried the dining cars and then only between St. Louis and Fort Worth. West of Fort Worth the TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 featured dining-lounge cars. Other railroads operated dining-lounge cars on secondary trains or during non-peak periods of travel. Many full dining cars were operated as dining-lounge cars in the 1960s.
On other railroads where a full dining car was not needed the railroads had the car builders deliver partial dining cars combined with other type cars. Among the combinations were Coach-Dining, Baggage-Dining, Railway Post Office-Dining, Parlor-Dining and even Sleeping-Dining.
The same was true for the Lounge cars they also were combined with other car types. There were Baggage-Lounge, Railway Post Office-Lounge, Coach-Lounge, Sleeping-Lounge and Dining-Lounge.

TTFN Al
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    May 2014
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:27 PM
ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! ENCORE ! [center]

A blast from a few pages back now, this first showing up on page 289. This railway dovetails nicley with a couple things we all enjoy, some adult beverage and a steam powered railroad,other than great health and a big lottery win who could ask for anything more really[;)][:D].This road also ran through the territory in Ontario that was transversed, by the Pere Marquette, and the C&O ( CSX ) today.

Rob

QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

All right something new for you all.I've been sitting on this one for a while, but I figured that given the nature of this place that you would all get a kick or two out of it.

CLASSIC STEAM #19 THE BOOZE LINE HIRAM WALKERS RY



Hiram Walker's Lake Erie & Detroit River Railway

In 1856 American distiller Hiram Walker arrived on tthe Candian side of the Detroit River and began making booze, an operation which would become Canada's most prolific distillery. Around the distillery Walker laid out the planned community of Walkerville. By the 1880's the townsite became one of Ontario's best planned towns with tree lined boulavards,beautiful commersial buildings,hotels,a bank, and soilid well built homes for the plants workers. Walker's own company office was such a beautifull structure that today it's a designated historic herritage building !

And he built a beautiful railway station as well. In 1885 Walker brouhgt into operation the Lake Erie and Detroit River Railway. It was intended to bring in the raw materials from the farmlands south of Windsor for the distillery. As well as to export local cattle and lumber across the Detroit River to the American markets. At first the line crossed only Essex County, reaching Leamington in 1889. But there was a great demand by the municipalities further to the east for a railway so by 1895 the route extended all the way to St Thomas. At St Thomas it met the Canada Southern at the CSR station built 20 years before.

From St Thomas the LEDR had hoped to purchase the Electric Radial RY the London and Port Stanley ( classic Juice #1 ), in order to have access to the coal shipments arriving at Port Stanley from accross Lake Erie. Unfortunatly the city of London considered the proposal for too long that Walker's LEDR instead bought the Erie and Huron RY which had it's Lake erie terminus at the Port of Erieau. This gave the LEDR connections to Chatham through Sarnia.


At Erieau the LEDR built a large coaling facility then entered the tourist business by adding two excursion steam boats, the Shenango, and the Urania. These ships cruised between Conneaut and Erieau bringing tourists to stay at the Company owned Bungalow and Lakeview Hotels. In 1912 the Bungalow the areas best hotel burnt down and was never rebuilt. In 1972 the line to Erieau was the first portion of the LEDR to be abandoned.

Southwestern Ontario's main railway rivalries interestingly did not involve any candian owned companies but American ones. In 1904 to compeet more aggressivly with the NYC owned Canada Southern, the Pere Marquette RY took over the LEDR and operated it until 1951 when it became part of the C&O. Now the CSX.

For most of it's route, the LEDR gained it's business from the feed mills an dgrain elevators which were paired with the stations in most of the little towns along the line. Some fish was shipped seasonally from the ports of Kingsville and Wheatley, while,the major industry continued to be the distillery at Walkersville.

Gradually trucking intrests slowley took over the industries along the line. Between 1992 and 1996 most of the line between St Thomas and Walkerville was abandonned and the tracks lifted. The only track still in use today is found in Windsor and operates between the CN and CP and in Blenheim where grain is still moved by teh CSX alonf the former Erie and Huron ROW to Chatham.


Enjoy Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 10:17 PM
Good evening gents, Leon please set up a round of cr's for the assembled few. Been quite a day, good info on the C&O and some excellant remenicances to boot. All round really good day I should think.

Al Nope no free rounds sir, we have to turn a profit even when the boss is away. Someone's gotta pay for the trip [swg][:-^]. Wonderfull final add in from you sir. i;'ve always liked the Pere Marquette, seeing as how it cut a swatrh accross Southwestern Ontario at one point, good info as always's sir [tup]

Dave Yup a general love of all things mechanical fer sure fer sure,knida why this thread is so gosh darn entertaining. I know how you feel about sluffing off those roads way back when.I did the same with the TH&B around my home turf. I always assumed that they would be there and never commited them to film, seeing the High Hood geeps and the GM switchers in their statley Maroon and Creame, seems likie yestreday.Since 1983 though they have been replaced by parent company CP's action Red. the trains still run on the same tracks but it's just not the same. At least the odd TH&B covered hopper or coal hopper and the odd gondola or flat car still show up in a train but they are getting fewer and fewer.


Rob
  • Member since
    February 2005
  • From: Los Angeles
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Posted by West Coast S on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:13 PM
Afternoon All, Can't trust Boris, i'll provide the rounds !

Good to see so many appreciative of those that heeded their countries call to duty, I tip my hat and raise my glass to all of you.

Well, had a quiet Memorial Day, qued some steaks and put a twelve pack on ice, did some Honey Do projects, you know the usual domestic bliss!!

CM3

Excellent C&O coverage, extremely well conveyed, spent some time in my younger years in the Hollers of West Virginia when we had a pre-merger C&O-B&O-LN. I thought these railroads to look as tired as the surrounding hills, what a mistake I made in dismissing them!! No way back machine to do it all again...

John.. Congrats, I was once was a resident of Ford Island, our Navy supplied housing looked out onto Battleship Row and the memorial, thanks for the DB greeting.

Rob, you are a man of many talents, avaiation is a fasicinating subject in its own right, heck we just love machinery here at "Our Place"!

Tom, tell the misses to give you some time off!! Too quiet without you around.

Al, good to see your par excellence Streamliner write ups...


Well, off to do my duty, shall return later

Dave
SP the way it was in S scale
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:59 PM
Good Afternoon gang. The boss is away so I suggest we have Boris set up free rounds on the house at least until the propietor gets back.

CHESAPEAKE
&
OHIO
(C&O)
Streamlined Dining and Lounge Cars
by Al

The C&O northern lines better known at the time as the Pere Marquette introduced a pair of seven-car coach streamliners August 10, 1946 between Detroit and Grand Rapids, Michigan. The two train sets made three round trips between them. The first two cars following the E7A diesel unit the baggage 30’railway post office car and baggage car were simply moved to the other end of the five cars at terminals only the diesel was turned. The five passenger carrying cars were trainlined in the following manner.

56-seat coach observation blunt end
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
44-seat dining car
54-seat coach with smoking lounge
56-seat coach observation blunt end

The new trains were delivered painted in the University of Michigan colors of Venetian yellow and Enchantment blue. These basic colors would be accepted by C&O as the color for all their streamliners with the yellow becoming a darker shade called Federal yellow on subsequent cars. Only those cars built for the CHESSIE would not receive the new C&O paint scheme.
The new Michigan trains were named the PERE MARQUETTES when they entered service and soon earned a reputation for reliability. The cars we are concerned with in this book are car numbers 10 and 11. These two cars featured a center kitchen with a passageway down one side. The dining areas were on either side of the kitchen pantry area and seated 22 at table seating for two and four. There were three tables for two and four tables for four. The cars served a dual purpose acting as lounge space during non-meal hours. The PERE MARQUETTES were one of the few trains in the U.S. to have waitresses instead of waiters and a no-tipping policy. Number 10 was retired in 1968 and sold privately. Car number 11 was converted in 1959 to a cafeteria car without change of number and retired in 1969. In 1970 the car was sold to a private owner.

44-SEAT DINING CARS Pullman Standard July 1946 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTES)

10, 11

The next trains to be discussed were the CHESSIES the trains that never were. The C&O received three Budd built consists in August 1948 that would have been among the finest day trains in the land if not the finest. The CHESSIES were built to operate between Washington, D.C. and Cincinnati with a connecting train between Newport News and Charlottesville. The three consists were to be pulled by the largest coal fired turbine locomotives ever built for passenger service. The C&O realized before the train entered service that they would never attract enough ridership to pay their way.
Each CHESSIE consist would have had five feature cars. These cars were 1875 –1877, 1900 –1902, 1920 – 1922, 1940 – 1942 and 1970 – 1972.
We will look at the cars in numerical order this is definitely not the way they would have been trainlined.
The 1875 – 1877 were built to be the last cars in the CHESSIES They featured a 20-seat coach section forward of the dome on the main level The Dome a lower profile dome built for eastern clearances seated the standard 24 found in all Budd short domes. To the rear of the dome in the rounded observation end on the cars main level was a lounge seating 16 with unusual seating arrangement having all facing aft at angles in pairs a single and one group of three. Beneath the dome was a pair of restrooms and a newsstand that would have sold newspapers, cigarettes, candies, magazines and souvenirs. Ahead of the coach seating was a silent screen room that showed headlines for the coach passengers of these cars. These cars would have operated Newport News to Cincinnati. After operating in PERE MARQUETTE service for a short period of time the three cars were sold to the D&RGW September 20, 1949. Before repainting and delivery to their new owner the cars were fitted with an adaptor at their rounded end complete with diaphragm for mid-train operation. See D&RGW for disposition and further history of these cars.

24-SEAT DOME 20-SEAT COACH 16-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS with Newsstand beneath dome Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1875 – 1877

Cars 1900 – 1902 were 6-seat lunch counter 8-seat dinette 25-seat tavern lounge 10-seat lounge cars. Car number 1900 was rebuilt to C&O business car 19 in 1953. One year later in 1954 the car was sold to the NYC as their business car 28. The NYC in turn sold the car privately in 1959 and named ADIOS II. Cars 1901 and 1902 were sold to the General Roca Railway of Argentina in 1951.

6-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 8-SEAT DINETTE 25-SEAT TAVERN LOUNGE 10-SEAT LOUNGE CARS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1900 – 1902

Car numbers 1920 – 1922 were 5-seat lunch counter 16-seat dining 18-seat lounge 6-seat lounge observations. These cars were blunt end observations and would have operated between Washington and Cincinnati. All three cars were remodeled in 1952 each differently. Car 1920 after rebuilding featured a 4-seat lunch counter 38-seat dining 6-seat lounge observation. Car 1920 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car 1921 was remodeled to 5-seat lunch counter 36-seat dining and 4-seat lounge observation. Car 1921 was transferred to Amtrak ownership in 1971. Car number 1922 was remodeled to a 5-seat lunch counter 32-seat dining 10-seat lounge observation. In 1971 car 1922 was transferred to Amtrak ownership.

5-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER 16-SEAT DINING 18-SEAT LOUNGE 6-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1920 – 1922

Cars 1940 – 1942 were part of two unit-dining sets with each coupled to car numbers 1970 – 1972 respectively. Cars 1940 – 1942 featured a 6-crew dayroom 9-seat dinette 4-seat lunch counter and a large kitchen pantry. Since these cars were built during the Jim Crow era of racial segregation they served black passengers only. The trailing 1970-1972-class dining room – theater cars were for white passengers only. Cars 1970 – 1972 were 52-seat dining room-theater cars. Seating was arranged at tables for two and four and they provided no kitchen facilities of any kind being totally dependant on the kitchens in 1940 – 1942 for food service. All three sets of cars were sold to the ACL in November 1950 for further service see ACL chapter for further history of these cars.

6-CREW LOUNGE 9-SEAT DINETTE 4-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER KITCHEN UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1940 – 1942

52-SEAT DINING – THEATER UNITS Budd Company August 1948 (Built for stillborn CHESSIE)

1970 – 1972

In 1950 the C&O received a large number of cars from Pullman Standard that were to say the least state of the art. The cars they received were part of a larger order parts of which were sold to other railroads with delivery straight from Pullman Standard. Still other parts of this huge order were canceled altogether. The C&O realized with their passenger services not all of the cars would be necessary to operate the trains they had.
The C&O purchased eight twin-unit dining car sets that were actually completed and delivered but none ever entered C&O service instead four were sold to the NYC, two were sold to the ACL and the remaining two were sold to the IC. These twin-unit dining sets as built consisted of a 16-crew dormitory – kitchen unit and a 52-seat dining room 12-seat cocktail lounge theater unit.

16-CREW DORMITORY KITCHEN CARS – 52-SEAT DINING 12-SEAT COCKTAIL LOUNGE THEATER CARS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for C&O service but sold to other railroads)

1950 GADSBY’S KITCHEN
1973 GADSBY’S TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1951 RALEIGH KITCHEN
1974 RALEIGH TAVERN
(Sold to Illinois Central November 1950)

1952 MICHIE’S KITCHEN
1975 MICHIE’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1953 HANOVER KITCHEN
1976 HANOVER TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1954 SWAN KITCHEN
1977 SWAN TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1955 POSTLETHWAIT’S KITCHEN
1978 POSTLETHWAIT’S TAVERN
(Sold to Atlantic Coast Line December 1950)

1956 CALDWELL’S KITCHEN
1979 CALDWELL’S TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

1957 BOTSFORD KITCHEN
1980 BOTSFORD TAVERN
(Sold to New York Central October 1950)

No single unit lightweight streamlined dining cars were delivered for C&O service from this 1950 Pullman Standard order. Two were built but they were sold directly to the D&RGW. See the D&RGW for further details of these cars.
Pullman Standard built four 8-seat lunch counter buffet 38-seat lounge cars as part of the order for C&O but three were delivered directly to the D&RGW, only one was destined for C&O service 1903 CHESSIE CLUB assigned to C&O Northern lines for PERE MARQUETTE service. This car was transferred to Amtrak service in 1971.

8-SEAT LUNCH COUNTER BUFFET 38-SEAT LOUNGE CAR Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to PERE MARQUETTE)

1903 CHESSIE CLUB

As part of the Pullman Standard order were eight 5-double bedroom buffet 26-seat lounge observations. Only four would enter C&O service and the other four were sold to the B&O who assigned their four to the AMBASSADOR and CAPITOL LIMITED. The C&O assigned three of the cars to the GEORGE WASHINGTON and the remaining car 2504 NEW RIVER CLUB was rebuilt to C&O Business car 29. The C&O rebuilt all three remaining cars 2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB, 2503 TIDEWATER CLUB and 2506 BLUEGRASS CLUB in 1962 to 6-crew dormitory Kitchen-pantry 38-seat dining observations. Three of the bedrooms were designated crew dormitory space and the remaining two along with the buffet were rebuilt to Kitchen pantry and the lounge seating was removed and replaced by seven tables for four. All three were retired and sold to Amtrak in 1971. Business car CHESSIE 29 sold privately in 1971. These cars were renumbered and retained their names as before see below.

5 DOUBLE BEDROOM BUFFET 26-SEAT LOUNGE OBSERVATIONS Pullman Standard 1950 (Built for and assigned to C&O passenger trains)

2500 BLUE RIDGE CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1923 BLUE RIDGE CLUB

2501 SHENANDOAH CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7502 DANA assigned to AMBASSADOR

2502 TIDEWATER CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7500 NAPPANEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

2503 ALLEGHENNY CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1925 ALLEGHENNY CLUB

2504 NEW RIVER CLUB rebuilt 1951 to C&O Business car CHESSIE 29

2505 OHIO RIVER CLUB sold to B&O February 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7503 METCALF

2506 BLUE GRASS CLUB remodeled 1962 to C&O 1924 BLUE GRASS CLUB

2507 WOLVERINE CLUB sold to B&O March 1951 renumbered and renamed B&O 7501 WAWASEE assigned to CAPITOL LIMITED

The C&O converted two of their 1950 built coaches 1610 and 1611 to Coach diners in 1956. Where the one large bathroom in these cars was located at the end opposite the boarding vestibule, it was rebuilt to a pair of bathrooms the 26-seat coach seating at this end remained and to the rear of the center offset a 22-seat dining room was installed with 5-tables for 4 and one corner table for 2. Where the large bathroom at the boarding vestibule end was located this was rebuilt to a kitchen. Both 1610 and 1611 were retired in 1971 and sold to Amtrak.

TTFN Al
  • Member since
    May 2014
  • 3,727 posts
Posted by trolleyboy on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:10 PM
Gentlemen,the next post I'm putting out, is a piece I had ment to put out for all to read yesterday, but a late thunderstorm of some strength forced me to shut down earlier than I wished yesterday. This is new info and as such I intend to encore it again later in the year when rememberance day does roll around. This is Andrew Mynarski's story, hiopefully explaining why he was awarded the Victoria Cross, and why he was chosen by the Canadain Warplane Herritage Museum to be honoured by their flying Lancaster Bomber which is also a moving tribute to the thousands who flew combat missions for bomber comand in RAF and RCAF squadrons during WW2, and to the 20,000 that did not return. So Andy's story a bit late for Memorial day, but worth the time none the less. I must also say that both Ted and Tom were moved by both the Lanc itself and by Andy's story, I get shivers typing it out as I do reading it and seeing the Lanc up close and touch it as well.

A bit of background, Pilot officer Andrew Mynarski was a trained airgunner hailing from a small town outside of Winnipeg Man. he enlisted early in the war 1940 just after the Battle of Britain and trained for his trade at the Commenwealth air training facilities in Canada.he was then posted in 1943 to the 419 Moose squadron a Canadian bombing group originally supp,luied with Wellington Bombers but by 1944 they were flying B1 Lancs, like the bomber at the CWH.

Andy was the mid upper gunner on bomber KM469 or VRA as the squadron call letters were. This is the paint job and numbers that FM213 carries as a living memorial at the museum.His best friend was pilot officer Pat Brophy who was the crews tailgunner ( a P/O is equiviant rank to an army sgt ). They often spne ttheir down time together at the sgt's mess on the airbase and always jokingly saluted each other and called each other "sir" even though they were of equal rank. The entrie crew of VRA were a typical 'family" in it for king and Country

June 13th 1944 ,419 squadron was on a bombing mission along the boarder of Northern France and Belgium, the target was some railyards which the german army was transporting armour and supplies from. The mission finished the squadron was headed back to base ( 10th mission for VRA's crew ). On route home they were conned by the search lights but pilot Art Debyrne and his co pilot were able to get out of the cone but not before a JU88 night fighter spotted them. In a typical anto bomber attack the JU88 hit the belly of VRA with its upward firing 20mm cannons causing fatal damage to the airframe of the bomber. A fire broke out midline in the fusalage just forward of the midupper turret. Lt debryne orderd everyone to bale out as the hydro,.ics were shot through and the plane was going down.

With the crew baling out Andy left his mid upper mount and headed forward to the escape hatch, he noticed that his friend Pat was stuck. The fire and shock damage from the cannon strikes ha warped the frame of the turret and he could not rotate it to allow him to escape. Seeing his friends predicatment Andy grabbed a fire axe and crawled aft through the burning hydrolic fluid to aid his friend. Pat tried to shout him off and pleaded him to jump but Andy spent several minutes hammering on the stuck turret hatch all while the plane fell from the sky and his uniform pants burnt.Unable to release the turret Andy finally followed pats advice and dropped the axe and turned to jump out the hatch,saluting his trapped friend an saying to him " I'm sorry Sir " Andy jumped his flight suit still ablaze.

The bomber spiralled in with Pat still trapped in his turret, and when it hit the ground the force of the impact broke the rear ball turret and it's occupant free,rolling under a tree some 1000 yards from the wreck of the plane where it burnt out. Pat brophy shockingly survived the crash and walked away with bruises on his briuses as hesatted but beyond that no worse for thh wear, He and 4 of the other crew members became POW till the end of the war. Andy did not survive the burns he sustained as was the only member of the crew to perish, he's burried in Belgium today.

Pat Brophy told the bomber command Andy's story after they were set free and Andrew Mynarski was given the Victoria Cross Posthumously in 1946. The crew stayed good friends and along with Andrew Mynarski's sister have attended the naming of schools and libraires and even a Lake in Manitoba that have occured over the years in his name. In 1987 on the eve of CWH's eneaugural flight for the Lancaster ( after close to 15 years of restoration ) the entire crew and Andy's sister were on hand as guests of honour,FM213 carries the sqaudron marks of the original VRA along with the decal Tom photographed on the nose that Comemorates air gunner Mynarski's selfless act. In fact CWH has the fire axe that Andy tried to save Pat with, it was donated to the musuem by a Belgian family in the 1990's their father had found the axe in the wreckage and had used it on his farm for years !


VRA has had the sad but important task last performed in 2003.It has overflown each funeral ceremony for the original VRA crew, the last in St Catharines Ontario for tailgunner Pat Brophy.

A humble thank-you to all the air land and sea vets of every world war and conflict.

Rob

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