"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #18

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the RDC’s from Budd from a 1953 advertisement found in my personal collection.

40 RDC’S FOR THE PROGRESSIVE NEW HAVEN

If anybody should know how to carry passengers profitably it’s the New Haven. Nearly half its income is derived from this source in contrast with most railroads where freight is king.

This adds significance to the fact that the New Haven has become the largest purchaser of Budd RDC’s – stainless steel, self-propelled, rail diesel cars.

In the nearly three years RDC’s have been operating in this country and abroad they have compiled an impressive record. In performance, they have improved every schedule they were assigned to. In operation they have proved both reliable and economical – two RDC’s saved one railroad $600,000 in a year. In the comfortable, air-conditioned service they render, RDC’s have increased passenger patronage – one RDC, operating in a new service between Worcester and New London, picked up 944 passengers in its first week.

Both New England and the New Haven will benefit from expanded RDC operation.

. . . . . . . . . . The Budd Company, Philadelphia, Detroit, Gary. . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Budd . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . . . . . . PIONEERS IN BETTER TRANSPORTATION . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox.

Lots of interesting material to read through today. As for "Mountain Railway," you can find it on Nitty Grity Dirt Band's epic, "Will the Circle Be Unbroken." They back up Johnny Cash - bring tears to your eyes.

Tipple (down, Boris) is kind of a generic name here for a loading facility. Many times they were/are built as part of a larger facility that prepares (cleans) coal. You'll hear them also called "cleaning plants," "prep plants," or sometimes, "loadouts." It all depends upon where you are. The book C&O Railway in WV, recently produced by the C&O Historical Society, has some good pictures and diagrams. You can also visit their website and search the images they have posted there. Look at some of the pictures and you'll get an idea why coal mines look kind of "out of place" on a layout unless you have a lot of speace to devote to them.

One of the high points in the book was some pictures of NYC 2-8-2s moving stuff around on the NF&G at Rainelle. This was truly a backwater of the NYC as was part of the old K&M line and jointly operated by NYC and C&O. A great modeling project if there ever was one. I have never seen a layour done on that line, but it would be interesing

I do model some in N scale - my cut off point is 1960. That way it's not too much of a strain to backdate quickly when I feel like running steam.

I have been enjoying the information and exchange of ideas on the TH&B. Since we are doing modeling stuff today, here are a couple of citations from recent magazines.

June, 2005 RMC: "Anatomy of a Junction: Smithville, Ontario on the TH&B."
July, 2005 RMC "Anatomy of a Junction, Part 2: Smithville. Ontario on the TH&B."
Lovely color pictures and a wealth of information. These should be real easy to find.

The NYC-TH&B is indeed a tangled web.

Nickel Plate? One of my all-time favorites. BTW, I saw where the NKP 765 restoration is proceeding and 765 has been steamed up for the first time in awhile. The Ft. Wayne RR Historical Society's website has lots of up-to-date information.

I got my Model Railroader in the mail today. Full color ad for live steam "Flying Scotsman" from Hornby (OO gauge, yet) - she sure is pretty!

RE the Western Pacific's RDC. Nothing stays "as built" for long does it? It's like I tell some of my students now and then, "Nobody here ever modified equipment did they? The looks of innocence are something to behold...kind of like Boris the last time the State police spotlighted him on that back road.

BTW, anybody have C&O questions, I'll be glad to try and answer them.

One memory I do have is riding on a Gulf Shifter one time in a snowstorm. We got to a mine that needed to be supplied and they told me to get out and throw the switch. I stepped off the front of the GP9 and went in right up to my neck. All part of the "initiation," I guess, but I thought I'd never get warm again. Train crew said, "I made their year."

work safe

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Another sunny day, a bit of wind pickin’ up and the temps are going to be near 80 (F). Juneau is curled up in his Husky position on the leather recliner, the galley has been cleaned and secured ‘til tonight, and I’m settlin’ in for another thrill packed day of retirement. [swg]

I see some Posts to acknowledge, so here goes:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 21:57:18

Thanx for the contributions in spite of not feeling up to par. Hope you enjoyed the “flick” and today begins the cycle once again! Ain’t life grand [?] Compared to the alternative, no question it is! [tup]

West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 02:12:11

What a treat! This is not only thorough and accurate information regarding the RDC’s on the WP but it melds in quite nicely with the week’s RDC NOSTALGIA pieces. Two more comin’ one today and the last tomorrow. Watch for ‘em! [tup]

Let me add a bit of supplemental info to your narrative:

A press release in Railway Age on Jan 14th, 1950:

QUOTE: The Western Pacific will place into service on January 17, for 10-day trial period, the self-propelled diesel rail car manufactured by the Budd Company. The car is to be tried on the WP’s 600-mile line between Portola, Cal., and Salt Lake City, Utah, and will operate on the schedule of the road’s trains No. 1 and 2. Passengers to stations beyond the aforementioned cities will change to regular trains at these points.”

Shortly after the test runs, WP purchased two RDC-2’s with 71 seats and a baggage compartment in each unit. This train was called the Zephyerette, considered a compliment to the more renowned California Zephyr.

The manufacturer’s numbers for the cars were #5008 and 5010. Car #5008 became NP’s # B-31, Amtrak’s #31 in 1971 and was wrecked in Galena, IL in 1974. Car #5010 became NP’s #B-32, Amtrak No. 32 in 1971. Following a fire in 1979, it was sold to Metro-North for parts.

The route was from Oakland, CA to Salt Lake, City, UT a distance of 924 miles. The RDC’s made three round trips per week. Westbound ran Sun-Wed-Fri and Eastbound Mon-Thu-Sat from 1950-1962. source:RDC – The Budd Rail Diesel Car

Oh there’s a ton of additional info … but that should do it for now. The point is not to upstage your fine effort, just to complement and compliment it! [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 07:05:56

While I’m hardly one to offer this kinda advice – don’t get your knickers in a knot over things none of us can control. I do it all the time and come away feeling far worse for it. So, it’s something I work at – really do – keep the stress level down, down, down.

The hobby is a great relaxer for sure. When I’m in “my element” down in the Can-Am Trainroom (HO layout and Lionel Polar Express shelf RR) and the “annex” where the S Capades is located, the rest of the world can simply dissipate into an after thought as far as I’m concerned. With five CD’s selected for hours of entertainment, only Juneau is able to bring me out of my “trance.” There’s sufficient room for the tennis ball game – I throw it, he chases it, returns it, and the cycle continues. When he’s had enough, he heads back up to his domain and I resume my activities. Works well …… [swg]

Don’t know what I can offer regarding what appears to be a strange phenomenon on these Forums in not having the latest Posts show up. Just looking at the time of your Post and those of Dave – Summary – and Fallen Flag – Nickel Plate something surely isn’t right. I can understand it when the Posts are within minutes, but hours [?] Oh well …… happens as they say.

Eighty in FLA and Eighty in MO - it's not only the Forums that are skewed these days (daze)! [swg]

Okay, time to get going on the day’s activities. I’ll be behind the bar, but will probably hold off Posting ‘til noon-ish ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Mornin' Tom, too early for anything heavier than dry Rye toast and a cuppa unleaded. We are finally into our dry season with temps hoovering around low 80's daytime and upper 60's evening.[^] Its good to see Nick and Dave back in the fold with their sage observations and valued good humor.[tup] BTW Nick, the "Pink Gin" is a winner, I'll imbibe another later today.[tup] Thursday, so it must be fish 'n' chips, good. I really like that Kikkoman Soy Sauce as a tasty salt substitute on the poached Flounder fillets.

Yes Rob, I don't know how businesses in my area operate with the frequent power interuptions. Its exasperating and then to add insult to injury they pass on a huge rate increase.[:(!] I'm looking into solar power for my next domestic project. I hope to help the Arabs drown in their own oil and U.S. energy moguls fry in their own fat.[tdn] While I'm [#offtopic], I may as well throw in the the Media's tasteless coverage of Prince Charles and Lady Chamille's visit. True to form, the alphabet media cartel (A.B.C., C.B.S., N.B.C., P.B.S.) dwell on Princess "D" and her untimely death instead of honoring the Royal couple with proper "pomp" and protocol. The networks must look under rocks when they hire journalistic reporters. If they would dig a little deeper, they would find the "political activist" editors. Really sick of it.[xx(]

There haven't been enough posts to interface with as yet. So, I'll just comment that "Pike Perspectives Day" is a sucessful idea for Wednesdays, congratulations Nick.[bow] Hey pal, I know what you mean about grabbing the gigs when you must. But, its the after hours things that will, in the end, cause a premature "burn out." You might wi***o recall the old classic Pinocchio and the wiley Fox story. If it all eventually "comes together," the real money will be from recordings, residuals, copyrights, et al.

Okay, I have a bit of information on the business side of the I.C. System but am reluctant to plunge into a dissertation on this very "dry" side of the financial end of "the business." I will recommend a book by Bill Yenne entitled: "The Great Railroads of North America" if any members care to delve into this "dollars and cents" part of the I.C. story. For most of us, it will be [zzz] time.

Hit that Dude Boris, I gotta a lotta remodeling to do. Happy rails.

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

New York, Chicago & St. Louis – Nickel Plate Road (NKP)

Headquarters: Cleveland, OH

Mileage in 1950 2,192

Locomotives in 1950:

Steam: 392
Diesel: 117

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 29,229
Passenger cars: 117

Principal routes in 1953 (after W&LE merger):

Chicago-Buffalo, NY via Fostoria & Lorain, OH
Toledo, OH-East St. Louis, IL
Toledo-Wheeling, WV & Steubenville, OH
Cleveland-Zanesville, OH
Sandusky, OH-East Peoria, IL via Lima, OH
Indianapolis-Michigan City, IN
Fort Wayne-Connersville & Rushville, IN
Norwalk-Huron, OH
Cleveland-Wellington, OH

Passenger trains of note:

Blue Arrow (Cleveland-St. Louis)
Blue Dart (St. Louis-Cleveland)
City of Chicago (Buffalo-Chicago)
City of Cleveland (Chicago-Buffalo)
Commercial Traveler (Toledo-St. Louis)
New Yorker (Chicago-Buffalo)
Nickel Plate Limited (Chicago-Buffalo)
Westerner (Buffalo-Chicago)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today isFish ‘n Chips Nite. Watch for [C=:-)] Nick’s Picks! [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) Friday is Pizza Nite along with Steak ‘n Fries. [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(3) Saturday is ENCORE![/ day insofar as NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts are concerned.

(4) Sunday is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(5) Watch for the announcement for a ‘special’ participatory event for November 11th (Veteran’s Day – Remembrance Day – Armistice Day).

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 05:38:46 (153) Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 05:44:26 (153) [purple]ENCORE! – MoPAC w/Al’s info

(3) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 08:33:30 (153) Daily pick-us-up Post!

(4) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 09:48:52 (153) Inclusive Post, plus

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 10:57:57 (153) [purple]Permanent Stools Induction – coalminer3

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 11:55:44 (153)

(7) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 12:40:52 (153) censored!

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 12:49:23 (153) reply to: coalminer3 & trolleyboy, etc.

(9) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 13:32:58 (153) Pike Day and TH&B

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 13:45:01 (153)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:37:32 (153) North American Steam Loco Wheel Arrangements

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:38:45 (153)

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 15:54:11 (154) reply to trolleyboy, etc.

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 16:08:01 (154) reply to: pwolfe

(15) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 18:39:29 (154) Inclusive Post!

(16) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 19:51:41 (154) He’s baaaaaaaaack (again)!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 20:33:58 (154) reply to Theodorebear & nickinwestwales, etc.

(18) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 20:49:04 (154)

(19) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 21:57:18 (154) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[West Coast S]

Eveing Tom and the gang, see I do come out at night...round of proper dinner cocktails, proper female company by candlelite and soft music....

Tom, have I got a treat for you and the group...from the Western Pacific's mechanical archives comes this piece regarding their experience with the RDC....

Towards the end of 1949, losses to trains 1 & 2, The Royal Gorge, prompted WP to seek discountiuance of all secondary passenger service. Anticipating rejection of their application, Budd was contacted regarding the new RDC.. Eventually permission was granted to dicontinue daily service, but WP was required to maintain triweekly service.

An trial RDC-1 was recieved at Salt Lake City on December, 15, 1949..Upon intial inspection, WP officials refused the test unless pilots and a baggage compartment were installed, Budd agreed to perform the temporary modifications. Actual trials commenced on January 17 and continued through the the 26th, operation consited of a round trip from Portola, Ca to Salt Lake City and return.

WP was impressed by the results and on January 23, 1950 placed a single car RDC-2 order with Budd, an additional RDC-2 was soon authorized on June 01, 1950. Both RDC's were recieved the following May and July 1950 respectively and numbered 375-376.

After delivery the cars were put through a series of test which resulted in many modifications over the years, both by Budd and WP personal.. Over ninety signficient modifications were instituted prior to 1954 with a few highlighted below.

1...Installation of nine-two passenger reclining seats immediatly behind the baggage compartment for the comfort of revenue passengers.

2.. Installation of a second toilet in the small compartment adjacent to the baggage compartment.

3...Installation of a conductors desk at the small jump seat

4...Installation of body mounted pilots to both ends of the car

5...Installation of diagonal number board, two per end, both ends of car.

6...Installation of wiring and plug in receptacles to each end of car to furnish power and A/C when hauled by a diesel locomotive.

7...Installation of an additional air horn to both ends of car.

8...A red Gyralite was installed, facing the rear and a white one installed on the front per WP operating practices.

Once in regular operation, additional problems made their appearence, pilots were refastened, reinforced and trimmed, modifications were made to permit greater air capacity, additional filters were installed on the engines to combat alkyline dust and the effects of weeds, common to the right of way in Nevada and Utah with the stock louvered openings being sealed in the process.
The RDC's were unable to actrivate lineside signals when recieved and new circutrity was soon developed and installed by company forces, Budd being unable to provide a solution that meet WP's exacting demands.

In spite of these defiencies, WP considered the ten year RDC expertiment a sucess. Losses for trains 1& 2 exceeded $255.000 dollars a year by 1959. WP sought permission to discontinue all secondary passenger service, this time, permission was easily obtained and the RDC's were retired on October 01, 1960 and stored in the Oakland roundhouse awaitng a buyer, eventually Northern Pacific would assume ownership. Once in service on the NP, one was soon to be demolished in a grade crossing collision, the second survived long enough to be included into the new Burlington Northern roster before being purged.

Ok Boris, set up a round for the night owls among us....

Dave

[trolleyboy]

Good eveninig again gents. Leon just a water with a bit of lemon for tonight.

Tom Glad I could clarify the TH&B question for you.I'll be looking for the rememberance day bit from you.[tup][tup]


Nick I'll take you up on the beer next week, the penisillen I'm on precludes the use of alcohol[:(] Nice to see you back however. [tup] Not to worry when you come to see your sister you can always pick her up a nice gift with the CDN Tire money.[:D] They have morphed into a department store of sorts ( no clothes )


Ted & Pete Thanks for the well wishes on my mouth problems. I'm surviving it was a strait pull no impactions ( thank god ) coarse that ment I was there in the chair for it as opposed to out [xx(] This was an inevitable. the tooth had been filled then filling repaired third time wasn't an option so out she came. I still have the rest of my set which are fully functional so all's good



Ted Glad you enjoyed the TH&B bits. Seems to have flicked a couple of switches which is all good[tup] They were a neat little railway.I'm glad that I'm not the only one who gets PO'd with utilities gone mad[:(] again not worth gripping about here. I'll join you in the rat's patoot room. Nice story about your first train,indeed sad about the circumstances of the getting of it. I suppose we must be thankfull over here. The shortages and rationing went on alot longer in the UK than it did in Canada or the US. my dad has told me several similar stories about his time growing up during the war years. He turns 70 in january so he likley remebers the details of Dec 7th a bit clearer. The one train thing he always tells me about is how with the rubber and gas shortages in Canada during the war how he used to ride the NS&T with his dad and his uncle who worked for them pretty much exclusivley during the war years.



Well folks I'm gone for the evening Movie on the tube I wi***o watch. TTFN

Rob

[nickinwestwales]

Hey big fella-how`s yer luck,nice to get back amongst good company-will probly have to take a back seat this weekend ( some very late nights in store ) but will try and get in for fish and chips after tomorrows show--fondest regards to all,sleep well wherever you be,speak soon,nick[C=:-)]

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

A couple of most welcomed Posts from two of our Permanent Stool members, Manager Ted and Chief Chef [C=:-)] Nick [yeah] [tup]

You covered quite a bit of ground with that Post of yours, Ted, power failure notwithstanding. What to say [?] If it isn’t the ‘puter Gemlins, now the utility company is out to getcha! [swg]

Sir Nick A bit of a gentle breeze from across the pond … blowing against the forces of nature, I should add! [swg] Always makes the capstone to a day when you visit with us and leave a bit of whimsy and some challenging thoughts to ponder. Happy that you’ve returned, especially on this day of revelry for CM3. In spite of our dwindling numbers, those who have stuck with it are making our cyber bar ‘n grill a happen’ place! [yeah]

Ted My airline pilot friend and neighbor is a consummate model builder. He too paints, letters, decals, and weathers trains, planes and automobiles (sounds like a movie title to me!). Anyway, I know my limitations and that’s an aspect of the hobby best left to those with the talent and patience. I’m the kinda guy who seemingly ALWAYS has to “touch” before the paint dries or “jiggles” before the glue sets.

In one of my display cases for retired HO “stuff” are about a dozen passenger cars (heavyweight - smoothsides and stainless) representing the railroads that I have traveled aboard. Got most of ‘em from IHC and they really provide me with a good feeling just to look at ‘em. Pennsy in several liveries – same for NYC; then the NH, CNJ, Southern and B&O. These are not complete consists, just a car or three for each road. So, I can well appreciate your keeping that Pennsy car ‘as is.’ It will look terrific on a siding, or one day in a display case.

Nick So, I’m not the only one who thought the “funny money” from Canadian Tire was the national currency! [swg] By the by – you owe me at least one Email response, or YOU’LL be on the receiving end of a visit – from – Vito the Hit! [tdn] <grimmmmmm> I hear cement shoes are coming back in style ……. [swg]

Well Gents, it’s been a loooooooong day. Got some work done out in the south forty – leaves, leaves and more leaves. We have nearly 30 trees just waitin’ for me to clean the yard, then deposit a bit more – clean – drop some more, you get the point. Also made my monthly trip to the barber to get my “dose” of chairside wisdom. I don’t know where or how they do it, but these guys who work in the “clip shop” are as astute a bunch of interesting guys – next to the customers of ”Our” Place that I’ve ever had the pleasure of associating with. I always leave with a smile, and a bit “grounded” insofar as any notion of self-importance is concerned.

Thanx for the rounds, Ted ‘n Nick! [tup]

Catch ya in the mornin’! Leon the Night Man has the bar!

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[nickinwestwales]

Gentlemen all,my apologies for yet another extended absense-since my last note (seemingly posted to the wrong address-where did it end up Tom ? ) I have been caught with one of those 8-day weeks with extra evenings thrown in as a bonus-a sort of feast & famine kinda thing here-gotta get it whilst it`s there. Thought I`d stop in for a pint or two on my night off before the last big 3 show assault....sooo...a very large bloody mary for me,in deference to the convincingly gothic atmosphere conjured up for Boris`s birthday-the true old years night,when Herne leads the wild hunt over tree & under star and honest folk bar their door against the wee folk,intent upon mischief..........a large glass of whatever you are currently favouring [4:-)]TOM,a Molsons gold for ROB (or a small vial of pigs blood if he`s still in " Mittel Europ" mode) for TED,I think, a classic "Pink gin"-stick a bowl glass in the icebox for an hour,remove,pour in a measure of Angostura bitters,swirl,empty-refill with large Plymouth gin,swirl gently,serve......repeat as req.---and of course,a round for the house in order to celebrate the recent elevation of CM3 to a rank more appropriate to his station-a good teller of tales is welcome in any company,and in this house we are especially favoured in that we have a man amongst us who can not only tell a tale ( a rare skill in itself ) and bring alive his love of the subject, But also had the good sense to make full & extensive notes of his experiences for later reference--[4:-)]TOM-If he wont publish of his own accord we will have to arrange a visit............................................[:-^]---BK-nice piece on the X2000,you even used Nordic grammatical constructions,neat [^]...you must have done some studying--PETE-Awright mate-how`dya holiday go ?-did see something earlier,will go back & check, ROB-What do you mean--I thought " Canadian Tire" was the Canadian National bank-do you mean my sister has been lying to me all these years-these notes arn`t real money,She told me I could exchange them for dollars when I came over to visit.............oh dear...........this could prove embarassing.
Right chaps,thats me done. Will try to call in between now & then,be happy ,lucky or better still -both,nick[C=:-)]

[Anonymous]

Congratulations CM3, a reward long over due and singularly deserved over these past weeks.[tup] Sorry to hear of the oral surgery Rob. The extraction surely has not effected the "wisdom" of your posts.[^] Tom, make it a double Crown and soda please, thanks. I needed that after the brief power outage. To think Progress Energy is asking for the greatest rate increase in their history.[:(!] I won't go into that now.[V] Say, the 2 albums submitted by Fergmeister and Duke on "outdoor" live steam and a solid HO Pike (respectively) are really worth the viewing.[tup] If you haven't "scoped" their efforts, you've missed something.

Great Fallen Flag Tom as always.[tup] Many years ago, when there weren't the means or the room for a decent Pike, I began a stock pile of HO locos and rolling stock, knowing that some time "my day would come." A "find" of 5 older Blue Line (all metal), 85' smooth side passenger car kits [one in I.C. R.R. livery] was a "God send." The observation was the "I.C." with chocolate brown sides and bright orange window field, yellow striping, as I recall. The other 4 cars were of the U.P. gray roof, Armour yellow w/red lettering. The only problem was that I model B. & O. So, reluctently, I masked and repainted and lettered the cars for the B. & O. Another lucky 'find' was an American Beauty Line Pennsy 80' day coach in tuscan red and gold lettering and pin stripes. The quality was so fine, I couldn't bring myself to do a "makeover." I still have it in its' original box but it will likely remain a lonely yard Prop. If it were a Pullman sleeper in Pennsy garb, I could reconcile it appearing in a B. & O. or Southern Rwy. "lash up." However, striving for accuracy, a "day coach" probably wouldn't be Kosher.

So many fine Posts, so little time.[bow] First of all, its always great to rekindle the "Encore" of Roads like Mopac with the Budd memorabilia as a "clincher." The classifications of the steam locos in the U.S. are also a valued "refresher course" for many of us, thanks Tom. Rob, your "loss" has been our gain for the "Our" Place "data banks." I had no hint that the T. H. & B. interfaced with the N.Y.C in such a subtle way. Also, CM3, the addition of "Frimbo's" colorful references made the otherwise dry statistics on the Empire State Express come alive. This is yet another reason for the reward so diligently earned.[tup] [tup] [tup] Rob, ditto for your inclusion of the Norman Helm additions, really makes things "flow." Pete, yes "Tipple" is a term I've heard used in articles regarding coal operations here and in the U.K. I think the articles were, in re, the old Duluth, Messabe and Iron Range or the Clinchfield R.R. in the States.

"A day that will live in infamy" (Pearl Harbor) certainly hit the "memory locker" here. Like Tom, I was a toddler but deduced from my parents reactions that something very bad had occured. It was something very "bad" indeed for a little fella who desperatly wanted an electric train during the ensuing war years. Five long years later, Santa finally set an American Flyer Atlantic (4-4-2) under the X-mas tree. It was O gauge (before A.F. went to S gauge) and a all metal engine with four freight cars but, alas, no transformer![:(] Another year would pass before such electrical appliances became available to retailers. The "pu***oy" option was out as well, because the "worm gear" kept the driving wheels "locked."[:(] [:(] Eventually, my taste matured into the more accurate detailed HO models only to find I needed as much (or more) space for them as needed for the O gauge "tin plate" variety.[:(] [:(] [:(] Just one delimma after another![(-D]

Okay, I'll need to bring this installment to a close for now. Tomorrow I'll "fast forward" on to the most recent posts of today. Right, Boris, you had your special day Monday. Now its back to "business as usual." So hit that thing and I'll be history until later. Happy rails all.

[siberianmo]

Looks like I neglected to 'see' pwolfe Pete hiding in the shadows of my last Post! Howdy, Mate! [tup]

Always glad you stop by and you've certainly become a "fixture," round here.... [tup]

I completely neglected to mention the "Tipple" that CM3 brought up ... thanx for the clarification! [tup]

Thanx for the round ..... hate to rush off, but I gotta get crackin' .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day Guys!

I see Rob has been active, and during the daylight! <Good Grief, can we handle it?> [swg]

Nice application of the TH&B to model railroading. I've always enjoyed getting one or two pieces of rolling stock that isn't "common," so to speak. Of course now that I'm modeling more contemporary "stuff," 40 ft box cars with "cat walks" are simply out of place. Although, I do have Fergies two box cars on sidings - in the CN and CP yards respectively. Gotta have 'em - great, great logo. Perhaps the best I've ever seen for a "home made" idea.

Glad you came up with something for "Pike Perspectives Day" or "Pike Day" in that I'm a bit reluctant to constantly bring up my this or my that. I think this gang has taken the time to browse my pix sites often enough to have seen it all before. The S Capades is a work in progress, however, so there should be something comin' on it one of these days (daze)!

Glad you mentioned Remembrance Day for I've got something planned for it. Watch the SUMMARIES [tup]

CM3 is indeed a welcomed addition to the "fold" and all one has to do is scroll back to the early entries to find his presence. A real steady, realiable and very interesting guy for sure. [tup]

Appreciate the clarification regarding the NYC and TH&B - I thought that was "it," but needed to have it confirmed. They say that comprehension is the 2nd thing to go ... [swg]

Later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

[bow][^][tup]CM3 on your elevation I'll have a pint of the usual to celebrate.

Good posts again today and the MO-PAC and PassengerfanALs follow up is well worth repeating.

You are right TOM the photos by Duke are well worth looking at.

ROB Thanks for the info on the Illnois Central going to the CN. I'm suprised that I havn't seen any of their locos yet even when I was in Green Bay. I hope you are getting on OK with the Wisdom tooth I had one out in January and it is no joke. Great stuff on the old railroad books some written years ago are real gems[yeah].

CM3 I guess the Tipple is the name over hear for a coaling plant [?].The later ones in the U.K. were monstrous concrete strcutures they were fed by 16 TON wagons which were hauled up the side and tipped in to the top. a mavellous sight for a youngster to see. Only the major depots had these. I believe that there are only two in the U.K. that have not been demolished
I suppose there were many different type of tipple in North America[?]. I guess this is a another part of the classic trains that has disappeared or have some survived.

Allow me to get a round in to celebrate PETE.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

And now for something a little bit different - some NOSTALGIA, some MODEL RAILROADING, some REAL RAILROADING .....

Here’s something for the Steam Locomotive fans in our group:
The North American Steam Locomotive Wheel Arrangements

Type ………. Wheel diagram ………. Name(s)

0-2-2 ……… Oo
0-4-0 ……… Oo ………………….. 4-coupled
0-4-2 ……… OOo
0-4-4 ……… OOoo ……………….. Forney 4-coupled
0-4-6 ……… OOooo ……………… Forney 4-coupled
0-6-0 ……… OOO ……………….. 6-coupled
0-6-2 ……… OOOo ………………. Baldwin, Uintah
0-6-4 ……… OOOoo ……………... Forney 6-coupled
0-6-6 ……… OOOooo ……………. Forney 6-coupled
0-8-0 ……… OOOO ………………. 8-coupled
0-8-2 ……… OOOOo
0-10-0 ……. OOOOO ……………..10-coupled
0-10-2 ……. OOOOOo …………… Union

2-2-0 ……… oO .………………….. Planet
2-2-2 ……… oOo. ………………… Single
2-4-0 ……… oOO. …………………Porter
2-4-2 ……… oOOo ……………….. Columbia
2-6-0 ……… oOOO ………………. Mogul
2-6-2 ……… oOOOo ................... Prairie
2-8-0 ……… oOOO ………………. Consolidation
2-8-2 ……… oOOOOo …………… Mikado
2-8-4 ……… oOOOOoo ………….. Berkshire, Kanawha
2-10-0 …….. oOOOOO ................ Decapod
2-10-2 …….. oOOOOOo …………. Santa Fe
2-10-4 …….. oOOOOOoo ………... Texas

4-2-0 ……… ooO ………………… Six-wheeler
4-2-2 ……… ooOo ……………….. Bicycle
4-2-4 ……… ooOoo
4-4-0 ……… ooOO ………………. American
4-4-2 ……… ooOOo ……………... Atlantic
4-4-4 ……… ooOOoo ……………. Reading
4-6-0 ……… ooOOO …………….. Ten-wheeler
4-6-2 ……… ooOOOoo ………….. Pacific
4-6-4 ……… ooOOOoo ………….. Baltic, Hudson
4-8-0 ……… ooOOOO .………….. Mastodon
4-8-2 ……… ooOOOOo …………. Mountain
4-8-4 ……… ooOOOOoo .……….. Northern
4-10-0 …….. ooOOOOO ………… Decapod
4-10-2 …….. ooOOOOOo ……….. Overland, Southern Pacific
4-12-2 …….. ooOOOOOOo .…….. Union Pacific

Articulated Locomotives

0-2-2-0 …… OO …………………. Mt. Washington Cog Railroad
0-4-4-0 …… OO OO
0-6-6-0 …… OOO OOO ………… Mallet
0-8-8-0 …… OOOO OOOO …….. Angus

2-6-6-0 …… oOOO OOO
2-6-6-4 …… oOOO OOOoo
2-6-6-6 …… oOOO OOOooo …….. Allegheny
2-8-8-0 …… oOOOO OOOO …….. Bull Moose
2-8-8-2 …… oOOOO OOOOo …… Chesapeake
2-10-10-2 … oOOOOO OOOOOo

4-4-6-2 …… ooOO OOOoo
4-6-6-4 …… ooOOO OOOoo ………….. Challenger
4-8-8-4 …… ooOOOO OOOOoo ……… Big Boy
2-8-8-8-2 … oOOOO OOOO OOOOo … Triplex
2-8-8-8-4 … oOOOO OOOO OOOOoo .. Triplex

Note: Forum format differences make for “skewed” columns.

Check out this URL for more: http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/wheels.shtml


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[trolleyboy]

Hello Tom I'll sip a tea while your about the tending of the bar.[tup]

To answer your question the Empire State ws a NYC train. It however cut accross southern Ontario from Buffalo up through Fort Erie and onto the Michigan Central owned Canada Southern through St Thomas and onto Detroit. The St Thomas leg / Canda sountern ( Caso ) is what the TH&B ran on through there was a TH&B operation. Seing as how the Michigan Central owned something like 60% of the TH&B ergo the NYC owned the majority of the TH&B with CP owning the balance. The Ontario conections to the Empire express were accomplished Via TH&B feeder trains and TH&B trackage thus the rather muddled relationship. I know clear as mud.


I'm happy to add some technical stuff to the discussion, you can't do all of it. Since I'm laid up for two or three days, I figured that while I was catching up on some reading I could spend some quality time here and add the odd Bon Mots


I can imagine that news like hearing of the Pearl Harbour attack even on one as young as you were at the time,would be something that would stay with you. As it already has. That in mind was a partial reason why I posted that piece when I did with Rememberance Day comming up.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good afternoon again everyone. Tom something light and non-charged for this afternoon if you pleas and a congratulatory round for the house in CM3's honour. Good show man good show.[tup][:D]

CM3 Let me know if you have any difficulties finding the book. i'll have to check but we may still have a couple new copies in the museum gift shop. If not fairly good quality used do crop up from time to time. You can try the museum website ,the giftshop listing will let you know what's available.


Since it's Pike day here at the bar ( and no ones yet to pick up the subject ) I figured that I would continue the tale of the TH&B and it's modelling oportunities. Lifelike Canada has run several batches of TH&B rolling stock, gondolas,coal hoppers , boxcars and flatcars. Athearn & Branchline trains have put out some heavyweight passenger cars ( all old 6 wheel truck monitor roof beauties ) Intermountain has run the cylindrical hoppers in both kit and ready to run forms. Even Front range and athearn have done the black and yellow boxcars in the past.


Locomotives have also been produced by lifelike Canada and Broadway has produced siound equiped versions of the Hudson's 500 and 501 when they did their NYC versions. As these TH&B Hudson's were added onto the last order for Hudson's the central placed. Lifelikes Berkshire is also a clos match to the birks the TH&B ran. Lifelike has produced all three of TH&B's GP9 locomotives in N and HO 401,402,&403 and they have done all of the GP7 roadswitchers and a couple runs of the SW9's. If one can find a Herald King or CDS lettering kit the kato NW2 model is the exact version match for the TH&B's NW2's.

One local hamilton hobby shop Moddellers Choice is an exclusive importer of TH&B and Ontario Northland loco's and frieght cars www.modelerschoice.com follow the links to the modeller's choice Canada site to check on this availability. Two of their more recent imports were from Bachman the spectrum 2-8-0's and the doodlebug gas electric also a spectrum model.

For quite a while I modelled the TH&B . i have except for some rolling stock have sold off this product when I had decided to run mostly CP and traction.

If one was to model the transition TH&B it would not take long to have the entire roster! The TH&B dieselized early 100% diesel by 1954. The final diesel roster ( never changed from units built in the 50's ) is as follows...

No 71..... GP7 built 1950 by GMD
No72...... GP7 built 1950.............. became CP 1682
No73.......GP7 built 1950............. to...........CP 1683
No74.......GP7 built 1950............. to...........CP 1684
No75........GP7built 1953.............. to..........CP 1685
No76.........GP7built 1953.............. to...........CP 1686
No77.........GP7built 1953................to........... CP 1687


No401........GP9built 1954................ to............CP 1688
No402........ GP9built 1954................to.............CP 1689
No403.........GP9built 1954................ to............CP 1690

No 51..........NW2built 1948.................to............OSR 51
No 52..........NW2built 1948..................scrapped 1988
No 53..........NW2built 1948..................scrapped 1988
No 54..........NW2built 1948..................scrapped 1988

No 55..........SW9built 1950..................scrapped 1988
No 56..........SW9built 1950..................scrapped 1988
No 57..........SW9built 1950..............to....EM-EMD 57
No 58..........SW9built 1951...................scrapped 1988

All of the CP rebuilds are now chopped nosed and rebuilt to GP9R status, and are used for hump yard and transfer service. As built the three 400's had torpedo tube roof airtanks as these were dual purpose passenger / freight locomotives. TH&B 71 was to have gone to GMD as a museum piece ( first GP7 built in Canada ) but it was destroyed in a grade crossing accident in January of 1980. The rebuilds happened in 1988 the year that TH&B was officially absorbed into the CPR as the Hamilton subdivision. The switchers were all sold to Atlas steel in welland for scrapping save 51 which I've posted pictures of ( still painted as a TH&B unit by the OSR ) and #57 which became the shop switcher at the London EMD plant, In 1994 it was sent to the Lagrange EMD plant as a shop switcher from there i'm not sure. By 1995 all of the ex TH&B geeps had been regulated to yard service only 1683,1684,1687,1688,and 1689 are at St Luke's yard in Montreal. 1682,1684 are at CP's Agincourt yard in Toronto. 1686 is wirking out of CP's facilities in Thunderbay and 1690 is at CP's Alythe shops in Calgary as a shop switcher.

[siberianmo]

G’day Gents!

Runnin a bit behind the curve this fine day – and it truly IS a fine day ‘round here. Temps are supposed to get up to 72 (F), quite a bit higher than normal, but the skies remain blue, winds calm and just a great day for livin’. Petrol is holding at $2.25 (rounded) – didja ever think we’d be “happy” at that [?]

The boyz up at “Collusion Corner” are apparently raking it in, for I just read an account in the local bird cage liner (aka: newspaper) that as the wholesale prices for crude oil drop, the individual gas station operators are seeing an increase in their profit margins. Hmmmmmm, I shudda majored in “voodoo economics.”

News of the day belongs to coalminer3 CM3 and his induction into the hallowed group of regulars dubbed, The Order of the Permanent Stools. Congrats! [tup][tup][tup]

I should warn you that lately we’ve inducted a couple of guys who almost immediately “disappeared.” One has recently made a reappearance, but we’re not quite sure when we’ll see him again. So, be careful around “black holes.” [swg]

Some acknowledgements of Posts are in order:

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 08:33:30 and 11:55:44

Life is Like a Mountain Railway
Traditional/incomplete

Life is like a mountain railway
With an engineer that's brave
We must make the run successful
From the cradle to the grave
Watch the hills, the curves and tunnels
Never falter, never fail
Keep your hands upon the throttle
And your eyes upon the rail

Blessed Savior thy will guide us
Till we reach that distant shore
Where the angels wait to join us
In God's grace forever more

Is this what you are referring to [?] Couldn’t find anything else on it and I’ve never heard it. Somewhere on that Wurltizer of ours it is sure to be found! [swg] Perhaps you were alluding to the group, “Green Mountain Railway.” http://www.greenmtrailway.com/band/

The Pearl Harbor announcement came over the radio as I was playing with some toys in the “parlour” on that Sunday. In my family, I was only permitted in that room on special occasions, or when the family gathered round the radio – you know, the one with the “green eye” that mesmerized the young and old alike. Anyway, I was merely a “spit” of a kid at 3 ½ , but the memory is there. Not for the gravity of it all, but of the anguish my family exhibited at the time. One of my uncles was in the Navy, aboard of the ships at Pearl (he survived), my father was in the North Atlantic aboard a freighter, and another uncle was in the British Expeditionary Forces under the Australian banner in India combating the Japanese. (Absolute fact.) It was a somber moment for lots of us and a memory that will not fade.

As always, an interesting and informative Post! [tup] I am just a bit confused and require some clarification from either you or Rob – what was the connection between the Toronto, Hamilton & Buffalo (TH&B) and the New York Central (NYC) insofar as the “Empire State Express” was concerned [?] Everything I’ve found indicates that train was a NYC operation. What have I failed to understand on this [?] Thanx!

Ah yes, the tank car. Seems that some time back, Nick [C=:-)] suggested, alluded, or hinted at gettin' one for a concoction he said would require lots of storage space. So, there's the storage space! [swg]


Appreciate the roundS and quarters! [tup][tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 02 Nov 2005, 09:48:52

Sorry to hear about the “extraction,” those can be painful after effects for sure. But c’mon, tough it out m’boy, you’re a regular at ”Our” Place and WE can handle it! [swg] <after all, it’s YOUR loss!> [swg]

Nice work on the Port Maitland sked! [tup] Appreciate your takin’ an active part with these types of Posts, for it really supports the original intention behind the creation of this thread. Everything else, and I mean everything, that goes on ‘round here really is secondary to the idea of discussing Classic Trains. Thanx, Rob you really are a team player! [tup]

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

CONFOUND IT!!!! I had my finger on the "send" key when a 2 second power lapse happened. Thanks to Progress Energy, I must go all the way back to square one. Can't do it now....too d..n angry! See ya tonight.

[coalminer3]

Quick stop for now. Thanks for the selection or dubbing to the order. Ropund for the house in appreciation.

I'll see if I can find the TH&B book.

Now here's one for those interested in C&O ops in my part of the country. The title is The Chesapeake and Ohio Railway in West Virginia Photos, 1940-1960. It's published by the C&O Historical Society. Lots of b&w and color pictures, mine plans, etc.

Astound your neighbors - build a tipple in your back yard. Heat your house for the winter. One car load should do it. BTW, there's several places I pass en route to work that have signs out front advertising "House Coal" for sale - we may need it!

No, Boris - not that kind of tipple. By the way, what's IN that tank car parked on the siding out back?

Our passenger fans will enjoy the color shots of C&O passenger trains as well.

Well - time for an afternoon meeting (at least I'll be in the building this p.m.)

work safe

[siberianmo]

<bonk> <boink> <bonk> (What kinda gavel is this [?])

Oye, Oye – All Rise for the Order of the Stools Selection Committee

We are rized ….

Quiet!

Who let that parrot in here [?]

Right!

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

You may be seated!

The Selection Committee of the Order of the Stools announces the findings of their October meeting.

Be it known from this day forth that the following customer of ”Our” Place has been distinguished by frequent and on-point Posts along with willing participation in the banter at the bar:

coalminer3 CM3 is hereby elevated to the Order of the Permanent Stools

This honor carries with it certain responsibilities to the continued success of ”Our” Place. A willingness to pick up the slack when long term absences occur along with participation in the special events, such as Birthday Bash celebrations and the like.

Congratulations to you, CM3!


The next meeting of the Committee will be announced at a later date.

This session is now concluded.

<bonk> <bornk <bonk> (We gotta do better than this!)

All Rise as the Selection Committee departs.

We are still rized …

Confound it!

Awk, Awk, Awk

Quiet!

Drinks on the house! Boris ring the bell, twice! [tup][tup][tup]

Tom, Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good morning Tom. A week tea and some soft oaatmeal I think this morning. ( I had a wisdom tooth removed last night so soft is the key at the moment. Gee with one gone does that mean some of my railway info leaked out ? ) [swg]



Tom and Al Though I caught it on the first run through I appreciate the encore. As I've said before my knowledge of the western Roads is limited though with you and Al dropping info like you are I'm learning. [tup]

Glad you liked the TH&B piece. I figured that I would drop it in to help demonstrate some of their unique joint operations. Helps explain to you folks about a well beloved Canadian road that few people new about.

I agree with you on the automats in the "dinning cars " Not a terribly good idea but who are we to judge' I'm just glad that Via backed down on the buffet proposal. I'm all for an occational buffet style dinner but on a long run on a train I would want to be pampered somewhat.

CM3 Thanks for the editional insight on the TH&B. Mr Frimbo ws on the inagural runs wonderfull little story. And as I mentioned yesterday, the fact the train's start date was the Sunday of the Pearl Harbour attack insures it's date in history though not by happy means.

I'm going to see if I can find the book you mentioned sounds like an interesting read to be sure. If you can try to find the In The Shadow of Giants The Story of the Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo Railway by Norman Helm The book was published in 1997 uit's actually the second edition the first edition came out in the early 80's. Mr Helm passed away about 6 years ago, I was luckey enough to meet him when I purchased my copy of the book ( which he signed ) He was an avid writer did alot of second world war history pieces, he was working on a deffinitive book on Canada and the second world war shortly after the TH&B reprint ( essentially a re-write as it has alot more info than the original which I have read at my Father in laws ) I'm not sure if it came out though.


Another small tidbit from the book. This is a schedule for the TH&B passenger trains to the resort town of Port Maitland which is located on Lake Erie at the mouth of the Grand River.This is from a 1952 TH&B timetable from what I can figure. Enjoy. Rob

How to reach Port Maitland

Port Maitland is situated at the mouth of the Grand River on Lake Erie, five and one half miles from Dunnville Ontario. from points in the United States, take Michigan Central- T H & B trains as shown below. From Points in Canada take T H & B or Canadian Pacific or Michigan Central rains as shown below.

Train Service
( June 28th to September 3rd )

Daily except Sunday
To Port Maitland Leave...Buffalo NY............MCRR.....8:03am....1:50pm
Leave. Nigara Falls NY...MCRR.....8:15am....1:20pm
Arrive Smithville On..........TH&B......9:44am....3:35pm
Arrive Dunnville On...........TH&B....10:25am....4:10pm
Arrive Port Maitland ON....TH&B....10:50am....4:35pm

Leave..Toronto On.............CPR.......7:50am......1:00pm
Leave..Hamilton.................TH&B.....9:03am......2:13pm
Arrive ..Smithville................TH&B.....9:44am......2:53pm
Arrive...Dunnville.................TH&B....10:25am ....4:10pm
Arrive..Port Maitland............TH&B....10:50am.....4:35pm



From Port Maitland
Monday only Daily except sunday
Leave Port Maitland.......... 8:45am..........1:55pm................6:00pm
Leave Dunnville..................9:10am...........2:20pm................6:25pm
Arrive Smithville..................9:40am...........2:50pm.................6:55pm
Arrive Buffalo.......................11:33am.........4:35pm.................8:40pm
Arrive Niagara Falls NY..............................4:35pm................11:05pm

Leave Port Maitland............8:45am...........1:55pm.................6:00pm
Leave Dunnville...................9:10am...........2:20pm.................6:25pm
Arrive Smithville...................9:40am............2:50pm.................6:25pm
Arrive Hamilton...................10:30am...........4:20pm.................8:25pm
Arrive Toronto......................11:48am...........5:38pm.................9:43pm

These trainsonly ran between June 28th and september 3rd.There was no train service between Dunnville and Port Maitland the rest of the year. Summer tourist service only.

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All; coffee, please; round for the house; and $ for the jukebox. Let's listen to Mountain Railway this a.m.

The comments on the Empire State Express were most interesting. Rogers Whitaker (aka E.M. Frimbo) in his book Decade of the Trains (a somehow forgotten excellent volume of American railroads in WWII), tells of he and a group of his friends went out to the wilds of western NY to ride some of the interurban lines out there as well as the inaugural run of the Empire State Express. They got caught in a snowstorm (what a surprise for December!), and barely made it back to catch the EB Empire. They heard about the atack on Pearl Harbor while they were on the train. I heard a similar story from him one evening in the lounge car on the Crescent. God- could he yarn! If you want some fun reading see if you can get a copy of All Aboard with E.M. Frimbo.

Needless to say, the news from Hawaii trumped everything that day. I was talking to my dad abt. that awhile ago (he's up there but mentally he can run raings around most all of us), and he said, "December 7 was the end of life as we knew it. We truly lost whataver innocence we had as a Nation that day."

The Empire State in wartime (1942) operated the following cars.

Tavern lounge (buffet): Cleveland-New York
Parlor Cars: Cleveland-New York, Detroit-New York
Diners: Cleveland-New York, Detroit-New York
Observation Coach (Buffet lounge): Cleveland-New York
Reclining Seat Coaches: Cleveland-New York, Detroit-New York, Buffalo-New York

I enjoyed looking through the TH&B material. They are finally getting some press in the magazines - RMC had a two-part article on them a little while ago.

As for the RDC ads - nostalgia there for sure.

Awhile back we mentioned ancient E units. Since we have also been doing fallen falgs, here's some information (from the vaults, believe me), about early SAL and ACL E's.

The Seaboard Air Line bought a batch of E4As in 1938 and 1939. These were numbered 3000-3013. In 1939 E4bs 3100-3104 joined the fleet.
In 1939 and 1941, they added E6as 3014-3016 to their roster. Some of these lasted a long time, being traded in to EMD in the mad 60s to late 70s.

The ACL got an E3a (#500) in 1939. They got E6As in 1940 and E6Bs in 1940-1941, and another E6B in 1942. Another batch of E6As (#513-523 and 501) were added in 1941 and 1942. All of them were gone by 1965 in a series of trades and resales.

work safe

P.S. Glad to see some old faces reappearing.

[siberianmo]

. . . . . . . . . . ENCORE! ENCORE! . . . . . . . . . .

As promised, this ENCORE! is being repeated in order for everyone to have another chance at viewing the comprehensive additional information provided by passeangerfan Al. [tup][tup][tup]

This Fallen Flag was previously shown on page 106 and 150! from Classic American Railroads:

Missouri Pacific

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Route mileage in 1950: 9,700

Locomotive fleet in 1963: Diesel: 724

Rolling stock in 1950:

Freight cars: 44.923 Passenger cars: 533

Principal lines in 1950:

St. Louis-Sedalia-Kansas City, MO-Omaha, NE
Jefferson City-Boonville-Kansas City
St. Joseph, MO-Stockton, KS
Kansas City-Pueblo, CO
Osawatomie, KS-Wagoner, OK-North Little Rock, AR
Pleasant Hill, MO-Wichita-Geneseo, KS
Fort Scott-Larned, KS
Rich Hill-Joplin, MO
Carthage, MO-Diaz, AR
St. Louis-Little Rock, AR-Texarkana, TX
East St. Louis, IL-Poplar Bluff, MO
Bismark, MO-Salem, IL
Bald Knob, AR-Memphis, TN
Little Rock-McGehee, AR-Lake Charles, LA
Memphis-McGehee
McGehee-Vidalia, LA
Pine Bluff-Hot Springs, AR
Gurdon, AR-Clayton, LA
Longview-Laredo, TX
Palestine-Galveston, TX
Brownsville, TX-Baton Rouge, LA-New Orleans
New Orleans-Donaldson-Alexandria, LA
Forth Worth-Spring (Houston), TX
San Antonio-Corpus Christi, TX
El Paso-Longview, TX-Livonia, LA-New Orleans (T&P)
Fort Worth, TX-Cypress, LA, via Texarkana & Marthaville, LA (T&P)
Texarkana-Longview (T&P)

Passenger Trains:

Aztec Eagle (San Antonio-Mexico City)
Colorado Eagle (St, Louis-Denver)
Houstonian (New Orleans-Houston)
Louisiana Sunshine Special (Little Rock-Lake Charles)
Missouri River Eagle (St. Louis-Omaha)
Missourian (St. Louis-Kansas City and Wichita)
Orleanean (Houston-New Orleans)
Ozarker (St. Louis-Little Rock)
Pioneer (Houston-Brownsville)
Rainbow Special (Kansas City-Little Rock)
Royal Gorge (Kansas City-Pueblo)
Southerner (St. Louis-El Paso & San Antonio & New Orleans)
Southern Scenic (Kansas City-Memphis)
Sunflower (St. Louis-Kansas City & Wichita)
Sunshine Special (St. Louis-Hot Springs & San Antonio)
Texan (St. Louis-Fort Worth
Texas Eagle (No. 1 & 2: St. Louis-El Paso, TX)
Texas Eagle (No. 21 & 22: St. Louis-Houston & San Antonio)
Valley Eagle (Houston-Brownsville)

Of note: National Railways of Mexico operated the Aztec Eagle between Nuevo Laredo-Mexico City.
T&P operated the El Paso trains out of Texarkana and handled Texarkana-Longview trains.
Denver trains out of Pueblo were operated by D&RGW.

QUOTE: passengerfan Al Posted: 29 Oct 2005, 20:42:23

The MP was an interesting passenger road in that in the streamline era they owned cars from all four major manufacturers (P/S, AC&F, Budd and SLC.
One of their most interesting streamliners was the COLORADO EAGLE introduced six months after WW had began on June 21, 1942. The seven car streamliners were combination Budd and P/S built cars the first five cars the Baggage , Baggage 30'RPO, 56 Seat Coach, 48-Seat Grill Coach and the Dining Lounge Cars were Budd built and the two trailing sleeping cars were P/S built. Actually there was an eighth car in each consist a modernized heavyweight sleeping car west of Geneseo Kansas to Denver. This car originated in Wichita westbound and terminated in Wichita eastbound. The train was operated over D&RGW rails north of Pueblo to Denver, and the diesels showed both roads names to reflect this.
Following WW II the train received three Budd built domes which have an interesting story behind them. First why was there three when there was only two consists necessary for daily service. It was initially planned that the COLORADO EAGLE would be part of the CALIFORNIA ZEPHYR and through cars would operate west of Denver in that train so the CZ would have two eastern terminals Chicago and St. Louis. Talks broke off just after the MP had ordered the domes from Budd. These Budd domes were exactly the same as the Budd dome coaches operated in the CZ with 46-reclining leg rest seats on the main level and the 24 standard seats in the dome. Talks broke off but the MP was already committed to the domes so they took delivery. Each COLORADO EAGLE was assigned one and the extra operated in one of the two consists of the MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE. When the MP purchased their P/S domes they ordered five knowing the TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 would only require two and the TEXAS EAGLES 21-22 would only require two so the extra went to the other MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE. The MISSOURI RIVER EAGLE was the only trains operating one consist with a Budd built dome and the other with a P/S built dome.

TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 were actually two trains in one, although the schedule said operating between St. Louis and El Paso the train operating west of Fort Worth was far different then the one arriving in Fort Worth each morning. The Dining car was replaced by a Dining Lounge and only two of the trains sleepers ran through and a single coach. Other then the head end cars it was practically a totally different train departing west and east from Fort Worth.

QUOTE: passengerfan Al Posted: 30 Oct 2005, 08:11:16
The Missouri Pacific and Texas & Pacific inaugurated the lightweight streamlined TEXAS EAGLES 1-2 on August 15, 1948 sometimes referred to as the WEST TEXAS EAGLES between St. Louis, Little Rock, Texarkana, Dallas, and Fort Worth then on to El Paso. The new lightweight streamlined TEXAS EAGLES were not operated with a lightweight streamlined observation due to the amount of switching in route.

The TEXAS EAGLE between Fort Worth and Dallas was a much different train that the one that arrived from St. Louis that morning. The TEXAS EAGLE west of Fort Worth operated a single through sleeping car from St. Louis to El Paso and one or two through coaches. A full dining car operated in the TEXAS EAGLE trains only between St. Louis and Fort Worth. West of Fort Worth the TEXAS EAGLE operated a Dining Lounge Car. The TEXAS EAGLE west of Fort Worth carried a lot of head end traffic so anyone seeing the train in the distance would think it was the same train that arrived Fort Worth in the morning. It might be the same number of cars but most were head end cars.
The new TEXAS EAGLES were generally assigned a pair of EMD E7A units or ALCO PA-1 units for power. The consists of the TEXAS EAGLES were comprised of cars from AC&F who built all but the sleeping cars and Pullman Standard who built the sleeping cars and sleeper lounge cars.
CONSIST ONE (Inaugural)
7004 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7004B EMD E7B 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

100 (T&P) Baggage 30'Railway Post Office Car
(St. Louis - Dallas)

804 (MP) Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory Car
(St. Louis - Fort Worth)

451 (T&P) 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - El Paso)

896 (MP) 24-Seat Planetarium Dome 42-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - Fort Worth)

460 (T&P) 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - Fort Worth)

840 (MP) 44-seat Dining Car
(St. Louis - Fort Worth)

EAGLE CLIFF (MP) 5-Double Bedroom Soda Fountain 24 seat Lounge Car
(St. Louis - Fort Worth)

EAGLE GLIDE (MP) 14-Roomette 1-Drawing Room 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(ST. Louis - Fort Worth)

EAGLE CHAIN (MP) 14-Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(New York - St. Louis - El Paso)

EAGLE CREST (MP) 14 Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Washington - St. Louis - Fort Worth)

EAGLE DIVIDE (MP) 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Memphis - Fort Worth via Little Rock)

CONSIST TWO (Inaugural)

7010 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7010B EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

101 (T&P) Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car
(Dallas - St. Louis)

304 (T&P) Baggage 15 Crew Dormitory Car
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

450 (T&P) 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(El Paso - St. Louis)

200 (T&P) 24-Seat Planetarium Dome 42-Revenue Seat Coach
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

461 (T&P) 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

500 (T&P) 44-Seat Dining Car
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

18 EAGLE CANYON (T&P) 5-Double Bedroom Soda Fountain 24-Seat Lounge Car
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

17 EAGLE FLIGHT (T&P) 14-Roomette 1-Drawing Room 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Fort Worth - St. Louis)

1 EAGLE BAY (T&P) 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(El -Paso - St. Louis - New York)

3 EAGLE ISLAND (T&P) 14 Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Fort Worth - St. Louis - Washington)

5 EAGLE PATH (T&P) 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Fort Worth - Memphis via Little Rock)

The two planetarium cars in the above consist were not added until June - July 1952. They actually replaced two 60 revenue seat coaches.

The westbound TEXAS EAGLE was discontinued between Fort Worth and El Paso beginning in 1964.

The TEXAS EAGLE was combined with the LOUISIANA EAGLE between Longview and Fort Worth in 1969.

The remnant of the TEXAS EAGLE (No sleepers no dining) was thankfully in 1971 at the start of Amtrak.

QUOTE: passengerfan Al Posted: 30 Oct 2005, 20:25:53
TEXAS EAGLES 21-22
The second sets of TEXAS EAGLES were actually two trains in one operating between St. Louis and Palestine, Texas. At that point the southbound TEXAS EAGLES split into two trains one destined for Houston and Galveston the other destined for San Antonio. The two northbound trains that originated in those cities became one again each afternoon in Palestine.These TEXAS EAGLES often ran to as many as eighteen cars between St. Louis and Palestine. The train out of St. Louis carried a pair of dining lounge cars for food service one dewstined for San Antonio the other Houston. Again power for the new streamliners was EMD E7A -B units or Alco PA units. The passenger roilling stock for these TEXAS EAGLES came from American Car & Foundry except for the sleeping cars that came from Pullman Standard. All three of the TEXAS EAGLES carried through sleeping cars to and from the east coast. The New York bound sleeping cars traveled east of St. Louis in the PRR PENN TEXAS and the Washington bound cars traveled in the B&O NATIONAL LIMITED. The new TEXAS EAGLES were inaugurated August 15, 1948.
CONSIST ONE

7011EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7011B EMD 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

814 Baggage 30' Railway Post Office Car
(St. Louis - Houston)

820 12-Crew Dormitory 52-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - Houston)

831 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - Houston)

832 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - Galveston)

870 Grill 9-Seat lunch Counter 8-Seat Dinette 36-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

894 24-Seat Planetarium Dome 42-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

844 32-Seat Dining 19-Seat Lounge Car
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

822 12-Crew Dormitory 52-Revenue Seat Coach
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

841 32-Seat Dining 19-Seat Lounge Car
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

EAGLE CIRCLE 14-Roomette 1-Drawing Room 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Louis - Galveston)

EAGLE BUTTE 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Washington - St. Louis - Houston)

8430 EAGLE BEAM PRR 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(New York - St. Louis - Houston)

8432 EAGLE CHARM PRR 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(New York - St. Louis - San Antonio)

EAGLE WOODS 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

EAGLE TURN 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(St. Louis - San Antonio)

EAGLE STREAM 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Memphis - Little Rock - Houston)

CONSIST TWO

7012 EMD E7A 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Cab Unit

7012B EMD E7B 2,000 HP Diesel Passenger Booster Unit

812 Baggage 30'Railway Post Office Car
(Houston - St. Louis)

821 12-Crew Dormitory 52-Revenue Seat Coach
(Houston - St. Louis)

830 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(Houston - St. Louis)

833 60-Revenue Seat Coach
(Galveston - St. Louis)

871 Grill 9-Seat Lunch Counter 8-Seat Dinette 36-Revenue Seat Coach
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

895 24-Seat Planetarium Dome 42-Revenue Seat Coach
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

842 32-Seat Dining 19-Seat Lounge Car
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

823 12-Crew Dormitory 52-Revenue Seat Coach
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

844 32-Seat Dining 19-Seat Lounge Car
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

EAGLE VILLAGE 14-Roomette 1-Drawing Room 2-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Galveston - St. Louis)

EAGLE CHASM 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Houston - St. Louis - Washington)

8431 EAGLE BLUFF PRR 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Houston - St. Louis - New York)

8433 EAGLE CHIEF PRR 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(San Antonio - St. Louis - New York)

EAGLE VALLEY 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

EAGLE TREE 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(San Antonio - St. Louis)

EAGLE SUMMIT 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
(Houston - Little Rock - Memphis)

The 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping cars were not actually delivered to the PRR until August - October 1950 so the PRR substituted prewar CASCADE series 10-Roomette 5-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars for this service. I chose to list the consists as they were remembered most with the 10-6 cars in service.

Likewise the Planetarium Coaches shown were not actually added to the trains until June-July 1952.

The connecting service between Little Rock and Memphis was discontinued in 1965.

In 1969 the TEXAS EAGLE was discontinued between Palestine and Houston.

One year later the TEXAS EAGLES were discontinued between Texarkana and San Antonio

In 1971 TEXAS EAGLE service ended with the beginning of Amtrak.

Enjoy it all!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ Y’all! Another fine day appears to be dawning here in mid-continent USA. Still bothers me ‘bout the Halloween rainout for the kids. [tdn]

Now, time for a pick-me-up from The Mentor Village Bakery, some freshly brewed “Joe,” and of course a selection from the <light> breakfast menu – right over there on the Menu Board! [swg]

Info for the Day:

(1) The Selection Committee for the Order of the Stools will release the results of their October meeting TODAY. Watch for it!

(2) Wednesday’s are for those engaged in the model railroad hobby, along with any other aspect of railroading that falls into the hobby category to showcase what you have done, are doing or are planning to do. That just about covers it, eh [?] We’re really lookin’ for track diagrams, but if all else fails, an overall photo (pix) of one’s layout will be fine. Just save the photo spread for our Sunday Photo Posting Day!. We call Wednesday, Pike Perspectives Day!

(3) Thursday’s are for our Fish ‘n Chips Nite. We haven’t had a Nick’s Picks [C=:-)] in so long, I’m going to hold back on advertising that ‘til we hear from the “man” [C=:-)] himself! Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(4) Friday’s are for our Pizza Nite along with Steak ‘n Fries. [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 04:54:10 (152) The Manager speaks!

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 05:57:59 (152) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 06:18:00 (152) Fallen Flag – IC

(4) Fergmiester Fergie Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 06:36:45 (152) Visitor from The Coffee Shop

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 07:16:42 (152) rely to: trolleyboy - Theodorebear – Fergmiester

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 07:55:58 (152) Daily pick us up!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 09:02:17 (152) Lyrics – City of New Orleans

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 09:30:49 (152) reply to coalminer3, etc.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 13:41:16 (153) NOSTALGIA #17 – Budd RDC

(10) pwolfe Pete Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 14:51:33 (153) Inclusive Post!

(11) bjdukert Duke Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:01:09 (153) Visit from The Coffee Shop

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:05:08 (153) Inclusive Post!, etc.

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:37:02 (153) The New Empire State Express

(14) West Coast S Dave Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:37:06 (153) Pullman/SP

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:43:28 (153)

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 19:01:05 (153) reply to pwolfe – bjdukert – trolleyboy – West Coast S

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[siberianmo]

Evenin’ Guys!

Thanx Cindy - you've had a long day and the boyz all appreciate it! [yeah] Sorry I neglected to tell you about Tex the Armadillo. Kinda sneaks up on ya, eh [?] [swg] Ohhhhhhhhhh, fine - not funny. Temper, temper! [swg] Watch it - these hands are "registered!"

Now this is more like it, some business at the bar and a visit from a friend from some time back …. Some acknowledgements are in order:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 14:51:33

Couldn’t agree with you more regarding “The City of New Orleans” song being one of the best. I play it constantly while in the Can-Am trainroom! [tup]

As Rob indicated, the Illinois Central is now part of the Canadian National Railways much to the dismay and chagrin of a bunch of folks livin’ south of the 49th parallel. It was predicted many decades ago that the North American continent would witness a day when only a relative handful of railroads would be operating, with essentially one or two for north/south traffic and one or two for east/west. Seems to be heading that way.

Appreciate your stoppin’ by ….. [tup]

bjdukert Duke Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:01:09

Appreciate your stoppin’ by! [tup] I checked out your photo album and man oh man, you have some interesting shots there. Highly recommend that our guys take a look at http://photobucket.com/albums/b350/bjdukert

Perhaps next time you stop by, you can provide us with a run down on those models you and others are riding. We can listen, while you enjoy a brew with us and tell the story! [tup]

I’m going to try and “return to my roots” with a bit more frequency in terms of my visits to the “shop.” Although I must admit I’m less inclined to get into the frenzy of it all – just like to say “howdy” to some friends who always made me feel at home.

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:05:08 and 16:37:02 and 16:43:28

That’s a real nice piece on the EM gas-electric rail car! Nicely done and appreciated! [tup] I had read about these ventures in my “RDC Rail Diesel Car” book. There are a couple of chapters devoted to all the different types of cars eventually leading up to the development of what was to become perhaps the best of ‘em all.

You may very well be correct regarding “Janes” as a resource. I haven’t looked at or thought of ‘em since my days (daze) looking up the former Soviet navy’s sub fleet. Spent more than a few months in the north Atlantic “pinging” on this ‘n that out there ……..

That “Empire State Express” run down really fits well with the theme we’re trying to maintain ‘round here! Good job! [tup][tup] I don’t know – the schedule looks pretty much the way a “normal” one would be. They all weren’t “friendly,” so to speak. When I look through my 1956 Guide of the North American Railroads, there are scores of schedules that fit into the “unfriendly” category too.

My thoughts exactly regarding “automats” on trains. I know I’ve commented on this subject a dozen or so pages “ago.” Don’t speak too loudly, or VIA Rail will decide to replace their dining cars (again) on the “Ocean” with automats! [tdn] No, no – they didn’t do that – but they came close to comin’ up with something equally ridiculous. Buffet service – never got off the ground. Was back in the days (daze) of CEO Rod Morrison’s regime, I believe.

West Coast S Dave
Posted: 01 Nov 2005, 16:37:06

Two days in a row! [wow][yeah][tup]

Email received and responded to – thanx! Life’s twists ‘n turns, eh [?]

Take your time catchin’ up – there’s a bunch. [swg]

Phew! So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Hey Dave good to see you.Excellent info there [tup] One thought comes to mind this Budd is for you. I know awfull joke. Hey they don't pay me to be funny. I can't imagine automats on passenger trains. though I suppose at the time automats were an "in vogue " sort of thing in North America.

Rob

[West Coast S]

Afternoon Tom and the gang...Tom you have a message.. Round of your best for the gang.. Yes indeed, i'm back! Howdy Rob, Cm3, Passengerfan and all the others I negelected to mention

I'm a day behind, but hey, here goes: Regarding the corrosion issues associated with Corten siding as used by Pullman specifficaly on the orginal 1937 Daylight consits, SP attempted several ideas the rectify moisture collection behind the panels, rewelding and seam sealing were attempted to no avail. Corrosion could be excessive enough to warrent replacement of truss memebers and pose a threat to safety, after enduring this expensive, time consuming condition for a number of years, with Pullman unable to provide a solution, SP extensivily shopped all cars so equipped, replacing the offending siding material with rolled sheetmetal, SP took the oppertunity to completely change the configuration in certain situations as well with new widow locations or complete conversions to different cars ( The full domes used on the valley line were so built using orginal Daylight observation lounges) The infamous Automat idea was a result of rebuilding vrs. replacement and but one example of just what the SP shops were capable of accompishing.



Ok Boris.. do what you do so well

Dave

[trolleyboy]

Since it is my day off ( that's why I'm not vamping it at the moment ) I have been trying to catch up on some reading. specifically I pulled out the TH&B book a dropped the EMC ad from.

The TH&B was an interesting road. the best of many worlds I suppose. It's herritage in ownership at least comes from the CPR , Michigan Central ? New York central.

Many an interesting steam locomotive appeared on their roster. alot of MLW built 2-8-0's and 0-6-0's and 0-8-0's. These were generic to CP designs as well as a couple of light ten wheelers also close to CP spec.

Their most exotic locomotives came via the NYC. A pair of J1E's hudsons 500 and 501 these were built at the same time as the NYC order. And a pair of heavy Berkshires the only ones in Canada 200 ,201. There are many fine photo's of these four locomotives.


Anyway reading through the book I came accross another interestic tid bit of Classic paseenger train type stuff. Enjoy.


The New Empire State Express

Again New York central makes transportation history with a new streamlined Empire State Express Her is really a new way to travel- new in luxury - new in the relaxation and pleasure it offers you.


Built of stainles steel with interiors as comfortable as they are beautiful. smart solarium observation ; tavern lounge and dining cars. all seats reserved in Parlour Cars and Reclining Seat Coaches. Same low fares !

Westbound

LV New York..... 9:00 am
Ar Buffalo ......... 4:50pm
Ar St thomas......7:45pm
Ar Detroit.............9:55pm


Eastbound

LV Detroit............8:30am
Ar St Thomas...10:32am
Ar Buffalo.............1:30pm
Ar New York.........9:30pm

This train travelled accross the TH&B in southern Ontario as a shortcut between Ny and Detroit. This was listed in the New york Central's/ michigan centrals time table dated November 30 1941. The service started in service westbound on Dec 7 1941 and eastbound dec 8 1941. Note the start dates for the train. I imagine that it did not get much fanfare.