"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

Just a reminder that on Saturdays, due to the relatively low level of Posts, I will be providing some Encore! resubmissions of Fallen Flags and NOSTALGIA pieces - just to keep the interest level going.

I see there is a late night Post awaiting an acknowledgment, so here goes:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 23:42:14

The Hertz ad jumped out at me when I first saw it in the 1956 Guide to North American Railroads. There's a bunch of nostalgia in those editions and I'm really pleased to have the one I've got. A gift from my youngest son who found it, and a companion freight edition, at a flea market., Nice gift for sure! [tup] Glad you appreciated it! [tup]

Canadian Tire has a good thing going with those dollars and there's no doubt that given a choice, one would prefer to make the purchase(s) there, as opposed to somewhere else where no "reward" is provided. Good marketing!

Remember the "trading stamps" era [?] I recal that we purchased our coffee table, end tables and a lamp or two from the S&H Green Stamps redemption center. Used to get those with gasoline purchases, supermarket shopping, etc. Was quite the thing ..... the as with the passenger railroads, they just folded the tent, so to speak. Gone-zo! [tdn]

Your Email was received and responded to - thanx! [tup]

The diference in fares for VIA1 and coach is - in a word - significant. It really is geared for the business traveler who can "write it off," or have the company pick up the tab right off. Another word - expensive! Check out www.viarail.ca and run through a few trip itineraries and you'll see ...... My attitude on things like this is and has been that I'm all for going 1st class on those trips that I may never have the opportunity to experience again. I'm not interested in "skimping" on my cherished times for fun, when they should be - well, fun! Just the way I am. I've turned down more than one chance to go here or there because we couldn't get the "bookings" we wanted. I'm not about to sit in coach on overnighters, nor sit in a cramped airplane for flights of 5, 7 or more hours .... Those days (daze) are looooooong gone for this guy.

Enjoy the weekend and thanx for the (always) Incluisiveness of your Post! [tup][tup]

Tom][4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

. . . . . ENCORE! ENCORE! . . . . .

Previously Posted on page 103:

A bit of info regarding a Fallen Flag - The Southern Pacific : (from: Classic American Railroads)

Headquarters: San Francisco, CA

Mileage:

1950: 15,039 (including subsidiary St. Louis-Southwestern)
1955: 178,340 Including subsidiaries, SW, SPCSL, and D&RGW)

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 2,096

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars 77,401 - Passenger cars: 1,002

Principal lines as of 1950:

Los Angeles-San Francisco via San Jose
San Jose-Ogden, Utah
Davis, CA-Portland, OR, via Chemult and Eugene, OR
Eugene-Black Butte via Roseburg, OR
Sacramento-Burbank (LA) via Bakersfield
Lathrop-Martinez, CA
LA-New Orleans via Phoenix, AZ
El Paso, TX-Tucumcari, NM
Galveston-Dallas/Denison, TX via Houston and Hearne
Rosenburg-Brownsville, TX
San Antonio-Corpus Christi, TX
Houston-Shreveport, LA
St. Louis-Dallas/Ft. Worth (SSW)
Memphis, TN-Brinkley, AR
Mt. Pleasant-Waco, TX (SSW)
Lewisville, AK-Shreveport, LA (SSW)

Principal added lines as of 1996:

Tucumcari-St. Louis via Kansas City
St. Louis-Chicago via Bloomington, IL
Kansas City-Chicago via Quincy, IL (trackage rights on BNSF)
Kansas City-Chicago via Ft. Madison, IA (trackage rights on BNSF)
Ogden-Pueblo, CO via Salt Lake City, UT and Salida, CO
Dotsero-Pueblo, CO via Grandby and Denver
Pueblo-Kansas City via Salinas, KS (trackage rights on UP)

Notable passenger trains:

Argonault (LA-New Orleans)
Cascade (Oakland-Portland)
City of San Francisco (Oakland-Chicago via Ogden; joint with UP and C&NW) – Milwaukee Road after 1955)
Coast Daylight (San Francisco-LA via San Luis Obispo; for a time also known as Morning Daylight)
Del Monte (San Francisco-Monterey, CA)
Golden State Limited (LA-Chicago via Tucumcari; joint with Rock Island)
Hustler (Houston-Dallas)
Imperial (LA-Chicago via Tucumcari; joint with Rock Island)
Lark (Oakland/San Francisco-LA via San Luis Obispo)
Owl (San Francisco-LA via Bakersfield)
Sacramento Daylight (Sacramento-LA via Bakersfield)
San Francisco Overland (Until Oct 1955, Oakland-Chicago via Ogden; joint with UP and C&NW; after 1955 Oakland-St. Louis joint with the Wabash Railroad)
San Joaquin Daylight (Oakland-LA via Bakersfield)
Shasta Daylight (Oakland-Portland)
Starlight (San Francisco-LA)
Sunbeam (Houston-Dallas)
Sunset Limited (Initially San Francisco-New Orleans via San Joaquin Valley; later cut back to LA-New Orleans).

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

SATURDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Mornin’ Gang! Why not take advantage of our freshly brewed coffee, pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and the <light> breakfasts before beginning your chores for this fine day [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is ENCORE Day! I will resubmit some NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts.

(2) Sunday is Photo Posting Day! THE BAR IS CLOSED!

(3) Monday is Boris’ Bash and Halloween Party! Plan to be here between Noon and 7 PM! Given the vast differences in time zones, let’s just call it “Eastern Time,” since this is Manager Ted’s show. [swg]

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 06:16:19 (148) Friday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 06:17: 28 (148) Fallen Flag – KCS

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 06:20:08 (148)

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 07:58:11 (148) reply to: trolleyboy, etc.

(5) passengerfan Al Posted:28 Oct 2005, 08:59:20 (148) KCS passenger car info

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:03:27 (148)

(7) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:17:52 (149)

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:31:38 (149) reply to passengerfan & trolleyboy

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:51:28 (149) reply to trolleyboy

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:02:48 (149)

(11) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:06:18 (149)

(12) BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:17:38 (149)

(13) Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:27:26 (149)

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:36:34 (149)

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:59:53 (149) reply to Theodorebear – BudKarr – trolleyboy

(16) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 11:28:10 (149) C&O GP30s

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 12:11:36 (149) reply to coalminer3

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 12:17:01 (149) NOSTALGIA – Ad HERTZ

(19) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 12:55:56 (149)

(20) BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 14:25:21 (149)

(21) BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 14:44:06 (149) X2000

(22) pwolfe Pete Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 15:02:50 (149)

(23) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 15:46:00 (149) Pacific Electric, etc.

(24) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 16:35:16 (149) reply to Trainnut484 – BudKarr – pwolfe – Theodorebear

(25) passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 18:00:33 (149)

(26) siberianmo Tom Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 18:43:16 (149) reply to passengerfan, etc.

(27) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 23:42:14 (149) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again gentlemen and Boris.I'm back for my late night catch up, we have had quite a good day today I'm glad to see that. Tom I'll nab a Keith's and help myself to some of the left over peperoni pizza.

Tom I never figured Hertz to have started in the 50's[:0] Though the cross promotion of modes of travel dosen't seem like that much of a stretch. We all know as has been stated that the car rental places went whole hof with the airports in the 60's. I can't remember being in too many airports that haven't had at least three different car rental companies with offices on the grounds.

You would be amazed at how much people do buy with their CDN Tire money. There was a guy in Montreal that paid for an entire rebuild of his transmition with the stuff. Obviousley he had collected vast quantities of it from family and friends,but amazing none the less.

I've never taken a Via trip in Via 1 class,I've always purchased reg coach. What is the difference for the money ?

Ted excellent first installment.I'm simply amazed as to how such an extensive rail network as the PE could have been simply blown off and dismantled. espeacially in a state that is so needy of public transit. absolutly boggles the mind.[V]

Yes the Canadian Brill Witts had absolutly awfull bodies. Alot of this is due to the lack of modern equipment in the factory. Preston car and Coach had for the most part built wood cars,bus bodies and some rail coaches. They only just began doing rivetted cars in 1917 when a massive fire took out half of the plant, and several completed cars that were being preped for shipping. They never really got back on their feet when Brill bought them out to gain a foot hold in the Canadian market. alot of the designers and workers left before the Brill takeover and the resulting rproducts spoke for themselves.

Now the Witt's that were built by Cancar in Montreal and by the Ottawa car company were of much better quality,we have two cars from each manufacturer at the museum. At least 4 or 5 others also ex TTC exist at US based trolley museums. And one Ottawa built car 2766 is still owned by the TTC and used for charter work today !

CM3 Wonderfull bit on the GP30's. An ugly duckling to be sure but one of the railfan favourites. Even today many of the CSX slugs still are in use. BNSF( still don't like that merger or name[xx(][:(!] ) did a major rebuilding of their existing ex GN and other BN predissesor locos. They were rebuilt to GP38-s electrical standards and are used on secondary trains and hump yard service. Just can't keep a good geep down. Only one minnor ommission. CPR bought two 5000 and 5001. Both were retired in the last 5 years along with the 30 or so GP35's that they owned. Neither the GP35 or 30 had much popularity up here. CN bought two GP35's and no GP30's. Both CN and CP felt thast the GP7's and 9's were more suited to the lighter roles. That and the late desilization up here ment that GMD started later in the building of the higher horse power 30's and 35's

BK Wonderfull post. It's always nice to here of the continental trains as well. Gives us that needed balance around here. Thank-you


Well folks I'll catch up with everyone tomorrow.

Rob

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys!

Been quite the Friday 'round here and good to see some semblance of a return to "normalcy." There has been quite a bit of dialogue to digest. One can easily find themselves behind the [8] Eight Ball in terms of catching up.

Commentary from the Proprietor: No one 'round here is pushing numbers. Rather the idea is to keep our thread up on the page. To do that, those who consider themselves regulars can be helpful by picking a time slot - and trying to stick to it for Posts. If duirng the course of a day one can find the time to visit us more than once, that's surely appreciated. But the idea has NEVER been to amass numbers. When it comes time to pull the plug on this idea of mine, I'll be the first to let y'all know. But as I see it, we're not heading in that direction.

passengerfan Al It doesn't suprise me at all to learn that there may be a Hertz office in California who happens to be responsive to rail travlers. California happens to be perhaps the leading state for passenger rail travel. Why wouldn't they, especially in light of little or no passengers at the local airport [?]

I tried to arrange for a car at KCity's Union Station through Hertz - following THEIR web site and it was a disaster. Wound up walking over to Crown Center and getting one from a competitor. At best it's situational, I would think.

Thanx for the round! Boris ring the bell and don't forget the track gang in the pool room! [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom Time for a CR and a round for the house.
Checked with my local Hertz rent a car and asked if they mean.t passengers arriving by train and they said they did it quite often since the local airport no longer has any commercial flights. All the information they require is a reservation and which train the passenger is arriving on. They will then pick up the passenger in the car and drive to the office where the paperwork is completed and the passenger is on his way. To return the car they ask you arrive at the office about 30 minutes before train time and they will give you a ride to the train. I don't know if this is true of all Hertz offices but our local edition provides this service.

[siberianmo]

G’day Guys!

Let’s get right to the acknowledgements, for we’ve had quite a continuing bit of activity ‘round here this afernoon …….

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 12:55:56

I thought the Purple Flag KCS would “draw” you out! [swg] There doesn’t seem to be very much available in my modest library of “stuff,” so we’re depending on our guys to come forth, as did passenerfan Al.

Once again for anyone out there wanting to tell us that KCS still exists, the use of the term only applies to passenger operations ……

BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 14:25:21 and 14:44:06

Nice job with the X2000 Post! Also, appreciate your being the first to Post on the new thread. [tup] Perhaps one day …. Would like to try it out. I did see the “demonstration” train that was here in the St. Louis area some years back. In fact, the ICE train also appeared shortly before or after X2000.

Thanx for stopping by and whenever and wherever you travel – be safe.

pwolfe Pete Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 15:02:50

I type each and every Fallen Flag and NOSTALGIA piece and read ‘em through before Posting. I completely missed the “cooker” reference! [%-)][%-)][%-)]
So we BOTH learned something! [swg]

Appreciate the drink for the (almost) 150th page for ”Our” Place! [tup] One cold Keith’s Pale Ale comin’ up! [swg]

That’s some fine info on those British Pullmans. Looks like there should be a “source” out there for a compilation. Whadyathink [?]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 15:46:00

Nice work and interesting “stuff” on the Pacific Electric! [tup][tup] Too bad West Coast S Dave isn’t ‘round to pick up on and enjoy this topic.

I knew a guy out in Long Beach who was really “into” the electrics of past decades. He could talk the ears off a brass monkey on the subject. Lots of deep feelings existed amongst several of the inhabitants of those parts over the demises of those services. Some blamed a conspiracy on the part of the petroleum and tire industries to do ‘em in. Who knows [?] Facts are that the infrastructure was huge, was effective and is sorely missed. Same can be said in many of our major metro areas throughout the U.S.

Okay guys, it’s Steak ‘n Fries Nite as well as Pizza Nite! [dinner] begins at 5 PM!

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Back after lunch and a couple of Alka Seltzers. Hi Tom, can't handle anything just now but probably will after I honor my commitment for the Pacific Electric installment. It seems the P. E. is a Road marked by superlatives from every stand point of electrified rail operations. P.E. served over 125 cities and communities in 4 Counties around Los Angeles and included over 1,000 miles of electrified rails in all directions from its Hub. The Southern Pacific R.R. owned P.E. but it was managed by Collis P. Huntington's nephew, Henry E. Huntington. The Line became recognizable as the such in 1911 with the merger of 3 other Lines: the L. A. Pacific, the L.A. & Redondo and L.A Interurban Co. It is hard to imagine that in 4 short years (1915), this huge system was complete with the aquisition of the last of 72 seperate traction companies.

The P.E. was divided into 3 major districts: the Northern (the largest); the Western and Southern. Some 400 miles of trackage and 33 lines served the Northern district. Four track mainline carried passengers north to Pasadena (600 v. ROW) and west to San Bernadino (1200 v. ROW).

The Western Division included destinations: Hollywood, Beverly Hills, Glendale, Burbank and the San Fernando Valley. Also, the beaches of Santa Monica and Venice (complete with canals) were extensions of the Western Division. The often photographed mile long "subway" tunnel from Hill St. Terminal (downtown L.A.) gave Los Angeles Pacific cars a "jump start" smack into congested city streets. There were early plans for extending the "subway" lines but the Wall Street panic of 1907 killed that idea for good.

The Southern District went south to Long Beach and San Pedro and southeast along Pacific beaches to Newport, Balboa Beach and southwest to Redondo Beach. The L.A. to Watts 4 track mainline was the busiest leg on the Southern Division. M-U freight shared the mainlnes with box motors hauling mail and express along with frequent passenger car M-U trains. This must have been Train Watcher's heaven during "rush hour" periods.

P.E.'s peak year was in 1945, when 110 million passengers were logged in and the need for bringing back the aging wooden coaches and another 80 big steel interurban cars from the abandoned Southern Pacific traction lines (San Francisco) was necessary to handle the volume.

Well, that should be ample for a first installment. I don't care to expand into a laborious Tome of data at one sitting. There is, hopefully, plenty of time to savour the compelling qualities of this "one of a kind" electricfied Road that did so much to expand a "turn of the century" town of Los Angeles into the megalopolis of the mid 20th century.

Now, Tom, I'll try a Guiness on for size, if you please. Later, I have my "chops" set for a top Sirloin, medium well, smothered with mushroom gravy, baked potato, sour cream and butter. That is, unless I am enticed away by some selections from Nick's Picks later on. CM3, "All I wanted to know about Geeps and was afraid to ask." Congratulations on this "tour de force," herculean Post.[tup] Rob, yes the Brill Witts did have a longevity problem. Perhaps they over extended thamselves during the late Twentys into the Thirties? The St. Louis Cars seemed to hold up well to "the test of time." Pete, I was happy to see the British Pullman inquiry was mostly resolved. I'm going to search a bit for some photo examples.[^]

Nice of you to drop by BK. Come again when you are able to stay longer. It does appear as if a choice of "quality vs. quantity" is eminent for "Our" Place. Personally, I do not find that to be unique or a problem in any manner. Au contrar, if anything is to be sacrificed, let it be the mindless rants to be found in industrial numbers throughout other Threads. I would hate to think that "Our" Place is on that level of competition.[V] If "that level" becomes an obsession here, then perhaps it is time to "call it quits" after all![xx(]

Don't forget to pick up your costumes by Ms Beaver'smuff's Sundry Notions and Pin Cushion Emporium before Boris' [bday] Bash on Halloween. We will have the Ladies in appropriate disguise as Bikini Black Magic Witches serving up your favorite potions and elixers; gauranteed to add straw to any broomstick.[}:)] Did I mention there will be a raffle for Boris' old Boondockers? A kitchen garbage disposal will accompany the prize[tup] Happy rails to all and to all a good night.

[pwolfe]

Hi TOM and all.

A bit early but I,ll try a pint of the usual please.

A real busy Friday at the bar[tup] with very knowledgeable postsTHANKS PASSENGERFAN AL CM3 TED ROB RUSSELL BK and TOM.

ROB The railway in the U.K. is I think really trying to compete with the airlines and certainly time wise with checking in etc but our distances are so much shorter the main worry is that they don't price themselves out of it. It will be interesting to see when the High speed line in England opens to the Channel Tunnel how much effect it has on the Airlines to and from the continent.

Tom Thanks for the KCS flag and Hertz nostalgia I think car rental in the U.K. was a lot later than 1956.

Also thanks for the COOKER link it reads as a possable source of power in the future.
The reason I asked was in the CHESSIE flag it mentioned 3 cookers in their fleet.

Another British Pullman was what was known as the Blue Pullman it was classed as a DRC with 2 power cars and in a 8 or 6 car formation. They were built by Metro- Cammell of Birmingham in the Midlands of England in the early 1960s an ran until 1973. The Western Region ones (8-Car) ran between London Paddington and Swansea. and Paddington to Wolverhampton via Banbury and Birmingham Snow Hill.

The 6-car units were used on the ex Midland main line between london St Pancreas and Manchester. This was during the electrification of the West Coast route to Manchester and Birmingham where train times were much longer and services much reduced during the work. When it was completed in 1966 the Birmingham and Manchester service were withdrawn.

The livery when new was blue with white window surrounds the ones that survived were gray with blue around the windows at the end.

I have heard that the sevice on them was excellent although the units were a bit rough riding. The engineers wore a white long coat while driving these in the early days looking a bit like a motor coach driver.

One story I heard was that one of the Pullmans failed on the Western and the only loco nearby was a scruffy 2-6-2 steam tank engine despite its appearence the loco was said to have put in a very spirited performance [;)].

Well TOM I have just noticed that the bar is about to reach 150 pages, for my generation this figure is when most railway celebrations are held. WELL DONE and a have a drink on me PETE>

[BudKarr]

Hello again Captain Tom,

Seems that I am remiss in mentioned your work for this day. Thank you for your efforts, once again as the Fallen Flags and Nostalgia submissions are always something to enjoy.

I particularly got a kick out of the Hertz advertisement. In those days the rental car businesses were trying their best to get a foot hold. Today, try to get a rental car at any but the largest U.S. rail terminals. Just the wording tells a story, all geared to the rail passenger. Not so in 2005.

When your Monday list comes out, I would imagine you will have a page full of reference material for anyone desirous of catching up or rereading your efforts. As you say, [tup].

There are two gentlemen at the bar who deserve my kudos too - one Mr. CM3, the coalminer, and the other Mr. Al of passengerfan fame. Your continued contributions in excellence only leads to the contention several have already aired that this is the finest exchange of information available on the forums. I wonder if Kalmbach knows of this gold mine in terms of relevant, factual and interesting input?

Okay, Captain Tom - one more beer, please and I will get back to finishing my sandwich. That is quite a lot to consume, is it not?

BK

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom,

I just posted this on your new thread, "Let's talk about Classic Passenger Trains!" and with your permission, would like to provide it for the guys at the bar. However, before I do - please fill up one of those frosty mugs with some draught on whatever tap happens to be closest to you. A sandwich would be nice as well - one of those submarines made up with every lunch meat in the fridge.

My story involves a trip between Göteborg and Stockholm, Sweden back in the mid-90s aboard the "tilt train" referred to as the X2000.

My memory is not quite as vivid as many of you out there who thrive on these kinds of recollections. I prefer rail travel, but am not what one may consider to be a rail fan nor am I a hobbyist. Mine is to use that mode for travel when it best fits into the time I have available.

X2000 provides all types of innovative approaches to passenger rail travel, many of which have since been incorporated elsewhere. For example: Automatic Train Control which can stop the train should a signal "back" not be received; Parking brakes and anti-slip devices that are electronic in operation; magnetic emergency braking that can stop a speeding train at 125 mph in about 3/4 of a mile; asynchronous traction motors used to power the car's four axles; and of course the "tilt" mechanism that kicks in when rounding curves.

The consist we had that particular run featured the locomotive and I believe 5 or 6 cars, each with specific interior designs and purposes. I traveled in First Class in the 2nd car back from the locomotive - I think.

I recall the cars being "done" rather fashionably, although a bit on the "plastic" side - sterile might be a better word. Some passengers appeared to be a bit uncomfortable with the motion of the car, causing a feeling of "sea sickness." Fortunately, no one found a reason to experience projectile vomiting in the car I traveled in!

My recollection is that I had no dificulty navigating the passageways heading to and from other cars, asI visited the bar car a few times to sample the Swedish brew and other delights. I could have waited for the on board Hostess, but wanted to stretch my legs during that just a bit under 4 hour journey.

I do not wi***o make comparisons with other trains, such as the French TGV or German ICE, etc. The X2000 is a distinctive engineering accomplishment and stands alone in my mind as worth the expense of time and money.

The Swedish countryside seemed to zip by and as I had read from someone's Post elsewhere - looking from the window was as is a slide show was taking place. They advertised the speeds in excess of 100 mph, perhaps even 125. All I can report is that we were moving and moving quite well. The ride was fine and stops minimal.

Today, as I understand it, the X2000 runs link most of Sweden's major cities. I travel to that part of the world rather frequently, but have not availed myself of a repeat train trip. Next time, I plan to.

One more brew, please.

BK

[Trainnut484]

Good afternoon Tom and all [:)]. A little too early for ML so I'll have a cup of java. Great info on the ol' KCS, Tom. I know little of the road even though it's in my backyard. I was fortunate to catch one or two of KCS's 'white ghost" locomotives painted in all white with red lettering, and I enjoy seeing their MP15AC's working through Santa fe junction. Michael Haverty of course started with MoPac and had a huge career with the Santa Fe as being the one to bring back the Red and Silver Warbonnet. I had the chance to see him at one of KCS's Christmas train appearances here at Union Station.

Ted, interesting insight of the street cars that once traversed KC. I've heard there is still evidence, although small, of the lines here. Everytime major elections come up, the "revival of small rail service" drum takes up the familiar beat. I won't go into the political riga-ma-roe.

Coalminer3, yes I do hear about the potential partner that will merge with KCS, but one does grow a deaf ear to it.

Gotta tend to other stuff. Take care for now,

Russell

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this ad out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) [located on page iii]

You make a 10% commission every time you reserve a Hertz car for a passenger!

May I reserve a Hertz car for you at your destination?”

That question is loaded – with potential profit for you. Ask it every time you sell a ticket. When the passenger answers “Yes” make the reservation and Hertz will send you 10% of the total car rental.

Chances are good he’ll say “Yes.” This year hundreds of thousands of wise rail travelers will take advantage of this easy, low-cost way to take the train and have a Hertz car waiting when they arrive.

Your part is easy. Fill out the triplicate form supplied you free by Hertz. Send one to the proper Hertz office, give the passenger one, and keep one.

The handy Hertz directory lists more than 1,000 offices around the world. So you’re assured of Hertz service (and that 10% commission) wherever a passenger is going. Hertz’ low rates include all gasoline and oil, plus proper insurance, and Hertz cars are new Powerglide Chevrolets or other fine makes.

Start now! Write today for details and reservation forms Hertz Rent A Car, 218 So. Wabash Avenue, Chicago 4, Ill.

. . . . .More people by far . . . use . . . . .
. . . . . HERTZ . . . . . . . . . .
. . . . . Rent a car . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G'day coalminer3 CM3,

[wow]! That's just an overwhelming amount of info on the Geeps - well done! [tup]

While I can't count myself in on those who are "into" locomotives to the degree you have chonicled, I appreciate those who are. Mine has always been a love affair with the passenger train and their loco's. When the consists were matched and the motive power all in the same livery, well that's the "cat's meow" for me.

I know the Geeps have been 'round for a long time, seems just like yesterday when the GP9 came out. Anyway, they represent to me, the modern - the changing "face" of American railroading. Nothing "wrong" with 'em, mind you. But just the same, nothing in comparison to the loco's of the 40s, 50s and early 60s. (That should spur on some conversation!)

I still can't get used to seeing what should be a freight locomotive heading up a passenger train. Even the F40PH's leave me somewhat "cold," since they have that "freight look," if you know what I mean.

Quarters always appreciated - Wurltizer says <burp!> and the round will go down smoothly as the bar is beginning to look more like a Friday afternoon! [tup] Boris ring the bell!

By the by - Email received and responded to. Thanx!

Next up - the NOSTALGIA piece.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon All; Coffee and a sandwich, please; whatever the special of the day is, round for the house and $ for the mighty Wurlitzer. For our manager: I sent you an mial offline.

KCS - One of the last independents and always a target of speculation for the next round of mergermania.

The C&O car order information was useful, especially because it put all of it one place.
For those interested in such things, p. 138 of Karl Zimmermann's book on the 20th Century Limited has a color shot of The Commodore Vanderbilt in 1948; the entire train is NYC gray except for a Golden State Pullman off the Rock Island and right ahead of it a former C&O twin unit diner. This, of course, was in the days when we had true transcontinental Pullman service.

Well, I started looking around in the notebooks and here's something on C&O GP30s.

Great Howling Monsters - Chesapeake and Ohio’s GP30s

In October, 1961 General Motors’ Electro Motive Division (EMD) introduced a self-styled “revolutionary” new locomotive to its GP line. The new engine was the GP30.

The GP30 appeared as first generation units were reaching the end of their careers. These early diesel locomotives 1500 and 1800 horsepower. In the 1960s, however, American railroads went on a high horsepower binge as they began running freight trains on ever-faster schedules.

EMD hoped that the 2250 horsepower GP30 would fill the need of this expanding market. Contrary to what many believe, the GP30 was not the first supercharged EMD locomotive. That honor went to the 2000 horsepower GP20.

The GP30’s distinctive appearance with a high dynamic brake housing tapering into the locomotive’s long hood was a styling breakaway from earlier EMD cab units and GP types. The 30 also had some other new design features such as a low nose and a pressurized hood.

The GP30 internally was not much different from earlier models in EMD’s catalog. The power plant was a 16-cylinder EMD567D3 diesel engine, a model which had originally been used to power the SD24. In the case of the GP30, the engine was derated to 2250 horsepower.

From coupler face to coupler face the GP30 measured 56 feet 2 inches. It weighed approximately 131 tons. Customers buying 30s had a variety of options to choose from such as dynamic brakes, high short hoods, and steam generators. It was also available as a booster unit. EMD eventually sold 948 copies of the GP30 to 27 different railroads; 26 in the United Sates, and one in Canada.

The Reading Railroad received the first production GP30 in March, 1962. Union Pacific, as always dedicated to high horsepower diesels, owned the biggest fleet of GP30s (152 units - including EMD 1962, the GP30 demonstrator). The UP also owned the only GP30 booster units, and the only GP30s built with steam generators. Southern Pacific followed with 120 GP30s; Santa Fe had 85, and the Baltimore and Ohio 77. The Louisville and Nashville received the last GP30 in 1963. L&N 1014, one of 58 GP30s on the Old Reliable’s roster was the 25,000th diesel locomotive built by EMD.

EMD offered the GP30 as one of the first locomotives in its trade-in program. Under the terms of the trade-in plan, the manufacturer would accept (at terms favorable to them, of course) old locomotives in trade for new ones. The result was EMD’s production of some hybrid GP30s running on trucks that had formerly been on Alco FAs and RSs. Examples of GP30s on Alco trucks included the 30s that operated on the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio, Milwaukee Road, and the Soo Line.

The Chesapeake and Ohio swapped 14 BL2s as part of their order for 48 new GP30s which were delivered August, 1962 and August, 1963. The new 30s carried C&O road numbers 3000-3047. The railroad had EMD equip them with dynamic brakes, automatic train stop, and horns on both sides of their cabs. They had a 62:15 gear ratio which allowed a maximum speed of 71 miles per hour. Each unit weighed about 131 tons and generated 50 thousand pounds continuous tractive effort. As built, a C&O GP30 carried 26 gallons of fuel and 46 cubic feet of sand. They were equipped with the standard 27-point jumper cable for mu operation.

Delivery Dates for Chesapeake and Ohio GP30s

Number(s) Dates Delivered
3000 8/62
3001 10/62
3002-3015 12/62-1/63
3016-3017 8/63
3018-3047 8 – 10/63

The C&O’s GP30 fleet remained intact with six exceptions. The first of these occurred at Merlin, Ontario, in May of 1965 when C&O 3045 and 3047 wrecked along with a pair of GP35s. The wrecked 30s were sent to EMD and rebuilt into GP35s. The two rebuilds carried their old road numbers, but were eventually renumbered into C&O’s 3500 series. On October 18, 1976 a trio of GP30s (C&O 3003, 3005, and 3013 were wrecked and burned in an accident at Clifford, Michigan. These units were scrapped. The last wreck involving a C&O GP30 claimed engine 3042 when it was destroyed at Gera, Michigan on January 11, 1979.

Despite the GP30s powerful appearance, Chesapeake and Ohio engineers found them slippery and hard to handle, especially in mountainous areas. They ran all over the railroad, but eventually seemed to congregate in Michigan where the terrain and operating practices were more matched to their abilities.

The GP30s did not show up regularly in the coalfields until the late 1970s. They were the first turbocharged units to regularly appear at Raleigh, and the crews there started to calling them the “Great Howling Monsters” because of their size and distinctive sound when under load. The 3000s wandered off line now and then, and the author recalls seeing them somewhat regularly on the L&N’s Nashville Division in the early 1970s.

The railroad modified and rebuilt the GP30s over the years. Automatic Train Stop was removed after 1971. By the 1980s the 3000s were wearing out.

The C&O was now part of the Chessie System, and Chessie, after studying the situation, inaugurated a rebuild program for the GP30s. Most of the old 30s went through the shops and emerged as class GP30m locomotives.

The 30ms looked just about the same as the old GP30s except for a long slot cut in the battery box cover in the engineer’s side of the locomotive. Internally, though, the 30ms had new throttles for improved transition, and new solid state electrical components similar to those on EMD’s Dash-2 units for increased reliability.

In time, Chessie became part of CSX. The GP30s were renumbered into slots in CSX’s 4000, 4100, and 4200 series. CSX embarked on a program to convert locomotives into unpowered slugs to operate with powered mother units to provide additional traction. These combinations were quite common on mine shifters in the coalfields of southern West Virginia until they were replaced by six-axle EMD and GE units.

C&O road number CSX road number
3000 4200
3001 4201
3002 4202
3004 4203
3006 4204
3007 4097
3008 4205
3009 4206
3010 2210 (slug)
3011 4207
3012 4208
3014 4209
3015 4210
3016 4211
3017 4212
3018 4213
3019 4214
3020 4215
3021 4216
3022 4099
3023 4217
3024 4218
3025 4219
3026 4220
3027 4221
3028 4222
3029 4223
3030
3031 4101 (rebuilt to slug)
3032 4102
3033 4224
3034 4225
3035 4226
3036
3037 4227
3038 4228
3039 4229
3040 4230
3041 4104
3043 4231
3044 4232
3046 4233


C&O 3003, 3005, 3013: wrecked in 1976, traded to EMD and scrapped.
C&O 3042 wrecked in 1979, traded to EMD and scrapped
C&O 3045 wrecked in 1965, rebuilt as GP35 3045, subsequently renumbered 3583
C&O 3047 wrecked in 1965, rebuilt as GP35 3047, subsequently renumbered 3584

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day Guys!

Let’s get right to the acknowledgements, for we’ve had quite a flurry of activity ‘round here this morning …….

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:02:48

I won’t profess to be more “Canadian” that a native born, but, Sir, I am most familiar with “Canadian Tire money” and do know the difference between what you’ve been trying to pass off at the bar! Hmmmmmmf - <double> Hmmmmmmmf! Remember, my God father was a born ‘n bred Habitat from Montreal, long before Sir Rob was a gleam, as they say! [swg]

For nearly 16 years, I have been giving my mother in law gobs of those “Canadian Tire dollars” each time we visit Halifax (Bedford). For some reason, we always gravitate to that store – not as if it is something really special nor unusual – but we wind up walkin’ the aisles. Bedford is more the village than a city, and of course nowadays it has been gobbled up by the Halifax mega city idea. Anyway, it’s a short walk from Mom’s house right on Bedford basin up to the shopping area. So each mornin’, I generally meet with a guy or two who I’ve met along the way (on trains) for a cuppa at Tim Horton’s. Just gotta go there each day or the visit isn’t complete. I’ve never tried to pay them off in “Canadian Tire dollars though – perhaps you’ve started something ……. [swg]

On those occasions when I travel the “Corridor” I do so by purchasing the VIA1 fare, except for short journeys. For example, between Toronto and Montreal that 5 hour trip is much better spent in 1st class for sure. Anyway, on one of my trips I wound up in a rather vintage Budd coach marked with the VIA1 placard and was instantly disappointed. That soon changed, as I realized just how much room I had and how comfortable the car was. I always enjoy the LRV’s and like the design very much. But ever since that experience, I’m no longer quick on the “judgment” trigger! [swg]

You appear to be quite “active” today, I’ve seen your numbers take quite a leap. Whazup [?] Too much caffeine in the “Joe” perhaps [?] [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:06:18

Isn’t it a tough life being popular [?] [swg] There are times ‘round here when I wonder whether there are enough hours in the day to take care of all the minutia that has piled up! Sure says a lot when my “breakfast meetings” are the highlight of the day! <grin>

We’ll be here when that three-part piece of yours gets ready for readin’. [tup]

BudKarr BK Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:17:38

The return of the “adventurer.” One day you’ll have to tell us why you referred to yourself that way in your profile. But then again, maybe we don’t all have a “need to know” as we used to say once upon a time in another life, long, long ago ……

Good to have your presence at the bar and appreciate your patronage. No point in my commenting on your observations of the forums, for they surely echo my own. One thing though, neither of us can change what’s going on, but we sure in heck don’t have to participate in it!

So you “nailed” Sir Rob, eh [?] Well, knowing him, he’s just offering a helping hand. You know, one of those “nice guys” who are becoming less ‘n less recognizable in today’s society. I’m sure he’ll not take issue with your intent ….. or, then again – better keep a close eye on whoever is operating that Toronto trolley should you find yourself in its path! [swg]

Commentary on the state of the bar is appreciated and you made some valid points. Problem for me is I’m too close to it – I know what it can be – I enjoy what it is like when we are “cookin’” and it is very frustrating when things just kinda flare out. But, that’s MY problem …… [tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 10:27:26 and 10:27:26

Tweeeeeeeeet! Tweeeeeeeeet! Rules violations, Rules violations! Rules #1 & #2 – failure to greet the barkeep and order a drink! Twice!! Okay, Boris Ring it, loud and long and twice! [swg]

If you’re gonna repetitive Post, you’re gonna have to repetitive greet ‘n drink! <grin>

Okay, this time – I’m takin’ a short break. <geesh>

So, whatillyahave

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

BK not to worry. Normally i wouldn't encourage such threads but I felt as though I could help. No harm no foul,glad you popped by.

You may be more of an aficianodo than you realize, I think in my heart of hearts that as more and more we deal with the mega cities. The more we will see the need for the cleanness of subway and light street rail as a means of getting around in the city cores if nothing else.


You wil be quite welcome in Toronto next year should you be free to make the trip. Yhe more the merrier.


I hope that Tom does hold the line on this thread. I have no reason to think otherwise. Five or six good friends / members do make this the most compelling and informative thread on these forums. At least in the information shared.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Howdy Hi there Ted. I figured the witt piece would" bong your gong" nooo Boris not litteraly. Hmmm that's gonna leave a mark sorry Ted.[alien]'s can't live with them can't....

I'm looking forward to the PE bits.Not rail lines I know much or anything about but the info will be interesting and topical. [tup]

I like the whine of a Witt as well. In some of the TTC cars cases. The brill witt's they had an even more melodious whine being that they had "herringbone" gears. Many a TTC maintenace guy had said that the brillwitt's were mechanically the best designed but the bodies were the poorest. All 50 were scrapped in the early 50's. Nice segwe on Tom's url, that car very well could have come from KC or Toronto. TTC bought many a used PCC in the 60's 70's from slosing down street railways, KC, Birmingham and Cleveland amoung them.

Bye the Bye. If you would like me too I'll keep an eye out and an ear to the ground for a used copy of Larry Partriges the Witt's, Stictly cronickles the TTC cars but it's a great book. Larry had passed away several years ago,but we get the odd copy from estates at the museum or I'll find them in used book stores occationally. If you weant I'll keep my peepers peeled for you.


Rob

[BudKarr]

Hello Captain Tom and whoever else is looking in. Too early for a beer, so I will partake in the light breakfast, how about one of those Our Place bacon, egg and cheese on an English muffin? I will fetch a cup of that steaming hot coffee while its being prepared.

Been browsing the forums this day and have come away astounded at the junk being put out. Really annoying. Some people just encourage bad behavior and ignorance. No room in my cold heart for any of that. Seems we have something in common, my cyber friend.

Really have enjoyed the postings from everyone and I too am enlightened by the information being presented. I have some experience riding street cars, but mainly in Europe and hardly can be considered the aficionado, as Captain Tom puts it. There is little doubt that as a means of public transportation, there should be provisions for them in the urban settings of the mega metropolis' of today.

Sorry if I dinged you trolleyboy over on that other thread. I failed to recognize your name before I made my comment. However, I stand firm with the no encouragement approach.

Quite frankly Captain Tom, it appears that you are indeed down to a precious few. Have you considered that may be a good thing? The thread will continue, even if the posts are far and few between. I would think it far better to have meaningful contributions from those who are interested than what is going on elsewhere. Then again, "knowing" you, there is little doubt that this place would close up if that were to occur.

Perhaps this weekend I will have some free time to gather my thoughts regarding another posting for the group. I am scheduled for a trip on Monday and may or may not return before weeks end.

Any word on your rendezvous in Toronto? Today, the timing appears favorable for me, but as with most things in my life, that too can change.

BK

[Anonymous]

Hi everybody, I think a Hot Toddy might take the fall chill off for now Tom. The C & O seems to have "rung a few bells" hereabouts. Fine Posts from CM3, Al, Pete and Rob. Let's hope the K.C.S. is enjoyed with equal enthusiasm.[tup] Terrific input on the Peter Witt cars and the man, thanks Rob. That car is my personal all time favorite as I recall them from the "gogle eyes" of my childhood. 'Course the P.C.C.'s soon took dominance over all of the heavier, older cars but there was nothing like the moan of the Witt's taction motors and steel (uninsulated) wheels crashing through a "Grand Union."[^]

Tom, when K.C., Mo dumped their street railway operations, a lot of X-K.C. cars were bought by Philadelphia, and others were shipped to Austria, Spain, Belgium and South American countries. Many U.S. cities did the same. It wouldn't surprise me if the St. Louis Museum P.C.C. could have done a "stint" in Kcity, Mo. before Philadelphia aquired same.

I wanted to do a 3 installment piece on the Pacific Electric this morning but due to an enormous amount of e-mail needing attention, I'll try for later in the day. Some progress is being made on the HO side this week. Which brings me to comment on the subject of minimum radii curves with traction. I have no problem with running 10" radius reverse loops. Frankly, I love to see the Witt and San Diego cars straining around these tight curves. Part of the "curiosity value" of street R.R.ing is (for me) the overhang (front and rear) of the single units. I can run 2 cars on the "dog bone" without fear of collisions due to their gear ratios. They "pace themselves" respectively.

Its nearly lunch time and I'm to meet some friends at a place of their choice, not mine.[V] So, I must bid a fond (short) adieu until the next Post. Boris, "hit it! This round is on me.[:D] Happy rails to all.

[trolleyboy]

tom It's not monopoly money it's Canadain tire money. Which can be exchanged for goods and services at the Candain tire stores[tup] ( shamless plug really and definatly [#offtopic] Boris here's a shin plaster( 25 cent bill if anyone was wondering ) ring up another round[swg]

Yes scouting in Canada has become politically correct.[sigh] Interesting that the girls sccouts brownies and Guides hasn't followed suit though. Hmmm a job for the good inspector I think.

glad you liked the Via and Corridor reference. I have only once experienced a complete LRC train ride. an all to quick St Catharines to Toronto run when I was 13. We decided to go to the CNE by train. (This is something that can still be done but by Go transit now.) A full tilting (slightly LRC train and coaches was an interesting ride to bad they didn't stay on as complete units. I do still prefer the "ride" of the corridor budd coahes though [tup]

Now I'll have to go back and catch Al's post,missed it in the shuffle as they say.


Al Again amazining info as per usual [bow] I always loved the E units, Something we sadley lacked here in canada with the lone three E8's the CPR bought for their New England pool trains. I've always felt thought that the E8 was the least attractive of the line.( that will likely cause a stir ). To me they were too utilitarian too much like the freight and passenger F's kind of common. I do however absolutly love the Early E's 2's , 3's 5's& 6's. Those slanted noses and stanless stell on the earliest are just the cats patoot in my humble opinion.[tup] But what do I kniow I'm the streetcar guy.[:0][:D][|)]


Back later. Rob

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Looks like Rob isn't about to let me just tend bar - he wants to talk! [swg]

trolleyboy Posted: Today, 09:17:52

Nice segway into those realtively "modern" loco's ... hard to think of 'em as "Classic" but you are correct, they do have a special place in RR recognition and surely isn't any harm by including 'em!. [tup]

Your reference to Bombardier and VIA Rail didn't go unnoticed [swg] and I conur, those "Corridor" trains really will occupy a place in the Classic Trains inventory of some great railroading equipment. Nicely done, Sir!

Now unless someone else "pops" in with a Post I can't refuse to comment on - I'll be back in a few hours for the afternoon's NOSTALGIA piece. [tup]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Just had to make an acknowledgement to our two stellar contributors this AM -

passengerfan Al Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 08:59:20

Nice supplemental info on the KCS and much appreciated! My humble sources don't provide very much additional info and I was hoping for more .... Thanx! [tup] Saw a complete consist of the Southern Belle at KCity's Union Station about 5 years ago. Really a well put together effort - I believe there were 14 cars in all headed up by A-B -A configuration. Beautfiful. My pix are 35mm and unfortunately, the colors and details would be lost trying to convert them over to Post herein. But I saw 'em and I'll not forget!

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 28 Oct 2005, 09:03:27

The St. Louis Council of the Boy Scouts of America boasts the largest number of scouts anywhere in the U.S.A. So in terms of numbers, there's no problem. I'm hardly an active follower these days - although there are three Eagle Scouts in my family (my late son, my youngest son and I). From the observations I've made in the area I reside in, there just doesn't seem to be the presence that I recall from decades past. I recall as an Assistant Scoutmaster we'd have boys actively involved through high school - now it's rather difficult to retain 'em past the 8th or 9th grades. [yeah] Changing socieity for sure .......

Also, the Cub Scout program, from what I've heard, has drastically changed. One of my daughters-in-law is now a scout leader. Wouldn't be a bit surprised to see us follow the sorry lead of Canada by going "uni-sex." Boy Scouts is what it was founded to be in England and should remain. But, alas - I'm a dinosauer in so many ways ........ [swg]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with some of what you've said regarding our thread. Yes - the Posts are longer and definitely more inclusive. But the numbers of us has dwindled and all one has to do is check the Summaries to see who is and who isn't Posting. I don't miss those who never could acknowledge the efforts of othes - they really were in the wrong place all along if they thought we are all about the "hit 'n run."

Ain't hard to figure out that several have dropped by the wayside. So be it. I've done all I'm going to do with Emails and the like to cajole, request and otherwise beg to get 'em back. Those front doors swing both ways! Oooops, [soapbox] time!

Now back to the positive of this - the group we do have is very involved and very much "into" what we're about. [tup] Problem is, we have no "bench strength," and we've experienced some long term absences by those we've come to depend upon. West Coast S Dave immediately comes to mind. Puzzling .....

Boris check out that cash Rob left at the bar - he's forerver leaving "Monopoly" money for us! <grin>

Catch y'all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Oh back again quickley.

Tom I had not much to add to today's fallen flag. I know that before CN's swallowing of the Illinois Centra they spent a lot of time working with the KCS to get to the Gulph of Mexico ports and industries etc. I know that for a time the CN brain trust was debating about which of the two to merge with. ( read take over )

On a semi classic note CN did sell several of their old GP40-2W units to KCS. These are classics in that they are the only GP40 series locomotives built with full width cabs abd noses ala todays modern locomotives. These Canadian cabs as they were called then were a bit of an oddity at the time. Now of coarse the North American cab as it's known now is of coasre standard fare on new locomotives. A little classic trivia I suppose, ab early 1970's view into the future. CN put wifecabes on G(40-2 , GP38-2 and SD40-2 models in the early to mid seventies. This cab type was also built into the MLW / Bombardier frieght locomotives built at the time as well. M420 / HR412 and HR616 series locomotives. This all built in a span of 1972-1983. I figure that 25-30 years back counts as classic. For those not giving a rats patoot about modern or at least semi modern frieght engines not to worry. CN / Via built some just as interesting passenger power at the time. These of coarse were the Bombardier LRC locomotives and their matching coaches ( the coaches still make up the bulk of the corridor fleet today, at least 8 of the locomotives are still on the property and geet occational use as well ) The LRC's were tested on Amtrak as well. Bombardier had hopes that they could sell this system to most of the commuter rail systems starting up in the 70's and 80's. Did not pan out.

Have a good afternoon guys.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Morning Tom ( yes the morning bit isn't a miss print [swg] )

I would say the threads alive and kicking, we are just writing longer posts so theres less numbers but more filling in the sandwiches[tup][swg Speaking of food I'll grab myself a coffee and some of the mentor's bagels.


Too bad your local Scout troops aren't that solidly based. I suppose that it's hard to pry the kids away from their other activities to go into Scouting anymore. Same uop here not as many troops or good leadres anymore [sigh] To bad really I still think that there is a place for scouting today.


As to St Louis, they may very well have had Witt cars. If not by design many of their older Brill and PS Brill clones would likley have been converted to pay as you pass fare collecting. One found that many streetrailways opted to convert rather than build new where possible. St Louis did by heavily into the PCC cars in the 30's. ( St Louis Car Company and PS ) were the major builders of this type of car. You will find that if there was a local manufacturer the street railway companies would more oft than not heavily support tthe local builders with orders.

Chicago's street system and El bought a lot of PS built equipment. Toronto built as locally as possible going with Ottawa or Preston car and Coach which incidentally J.G. Brill purposley bought out in 1920 so they could build cars for Canada. With a Canadian plant they didn't have as many import taxes and duties slapped on their product. So the Preston built large Witts ( 50 cars large Witt type ) were just about the last cars built by the old Preston Car and Coach / Canadian Brill. The plant closed in 1922 after building 25 single truck Birney's for the Guelph radial and the Windsor Sandwich and Exeter railway. Most of this order was actually built at the main Brill plant in Philly.

Well I'll leave a you some money for a round for the lunsh crowd. I'll try to pop back in later this evening.

Rob

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tomand the rest of the gang. Time for a cup of coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Thanks for the fallen flag report on the KCS.

The first (lightweight) streamlined Southern Belles entered service September 2, 1940 and needed three sets of equipment to provide daily service between Kansas City and New Orleans. North of Shreveport the trains initially coach only with rebuilt heavyweight sleeping cars operating in the overnight portion of the trip between New Orleans and Shrevepot only. North of Shreveport the consists were Baggage RPO Crew Dormitory Car, Coach and Dining Parlor Observation. The three cars were assigned a single E3 or E6 for power. South of Shreveport the tarin were five cars in length with an additional coach added and the modernized heavyweight sleeping car added. Three additional modernized heavyweight sleeping cars were delivered in February 1941 and the trains then carried a through sleeping car between New Orleans and Kansas City. The trains south of Shreveport then operated with two modernized heavyweight sleeping cars and a second coach. At that time the trains were six cars south of Shreveport and the single E unit was ample power for the expanded consists.

Following WW II the track was improved to the point where only two consists were required and new equipment was delivered in late 1948 and the beginning of 1949 for the new Southern Belles.
A typical Southern Belle at that time follows,

E-Unit for power
67 Baggage 15' RPO 12 crew Dormitory
239 KANSAS CITY 62 Revenue Seat Divided Coach
241 SHREVEPORT 60 Revenue Seat Coach
243 BATON ROUGE 60-Revenue Seat Coach (Shreveport - New Orleans only)
57 OLD PLANTATION 36-Seat Dining Car
ARTHUR STILLWELL 14 Roomette 4 Double Bedroom Sleeping Car
JOB EDSON 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom Sleeping Car (Shreveport - New Orleans only)
HOSPITALITY Tavern Lounge Observation

At least two of the former P/S built 14-Roomette 4-Double Bedroom cars were purchased by Amtrak ARTHUR STILLWELL and COLONEL FORDYCE.

Ta Ta for now

[siberianmo]

Mornin’ Gents!

Acknowledgement time for the late night Posts:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 22:42:49

One of the nice things about those Fallen Flags are the images which pop up into our respective memories. They are all different and reflect our personal recollections of “this or that” regarding the railroad being discussed. For me, the C&O brings to mind long strings of matching passenger cars – smoothsides – that great yellow/blue/light blue (grey) – livery. Powered of course by some equally matching “Fs” in the A-B-A configuration. [yeah] Nice, huh [?] Always good to think about those railroads, even if they live only in the Ether ……

Appreciate the suggestion regarding donating my “stuff” …. These days (daze) ‘round these parts, Scouting seems to be a “fleeting thing” for many. The troops and packs are hardly anything one can rely upon to be “there” for any length of time. I’m looking for more stability and permanence for the “stuff,” unfortunately the model RR clubs I’m aware of are not interested in brass, especially the types I have. Thanx! [utp]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 23:28:55

Never to old to learn – and this installment of your Classic Juice will be included in the Monday Index as #7! [tup][tup]

Didn’t see St. Louis listed in that run down – what kind of cars did they use ‘round these parts in the era you focused on [?] A couple of guys that I used to associate with were really “into” streetcars and I mean “into” ‘em. For whatever the reason, I just couldn’t share their enthusiasm – although after my Dallas adventure, that’s all changed! [tup] Our Museum of Transporation has an operating car – check out: http://www.museumoftransport.org/fun.htm

Thanx for the Posts, Rob – it sure appears that only a few of us are keeping this thread up ‘n runnin’ throughout the day ‘n night. The “Inner Circle” is tightenin’ up ……. Kinda like one’s shorts gettin’ in a knot! [swg]

I’ll check back in about 4 hours or so ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

I've decided to switch from O gauge to HO. Any suggestions as to how to disburse/sell my collection of mainly Lionel?

[siberianmo]

Hi Guys!

SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND: By now you all know that first thing in the morning you should expect to see the SUMMARY followed by the Fallen Flag for the day, and then my "acknowledgements" of the late night Posts. (The latter may or may not be Posted right away ....) So, when you log on and do NOT see these daily Posts of mine - you are not getting the most current Forum info available. Try the reload or go to the "Active Topics" selection (red bar at the top) and select "last 12 hours." It's worth a try IF you want to see the latest "stuff" ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Kansas City Southern (KCS)

Headquarters: Kansas City, MO

Mileage:

1950: 962
2000: 2,995

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 121

Rolling stock in1963:

Freight cars; 581
Passenger cars: 22

Principal routes in 1950:

Kansas City, MO-Shreveport, LA-Port Arthur, TX
Dallas, TX-Shreveport-New Orleans, LA
Minden-Alexander, LA

Passenger trains of note:

Flying Crow (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)
Shreveporter (Hope-Shreveport)
Southern Belle (Kansas City-New Orleans & Port Arthur)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]