"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee please, round for the house and more for the jukebox. Let's start with Roy Acuff's "Wabash Cannonball," and then we'll follow it with some Ralph Stanley and the Clinch Mountain Boys.

Nasty here this a.m.; cold and rainy but at least we have power compared to our brethren to the south with Wilma and our friends to the north with a too early in the season snowstorm which took down the power grid from northern Fayette County up into Monongalia Cty. Gas here is $2.49/gallon this a.m. at my local truck stop.

My, my there have been some interesting posts over the past few days. Herewith some replies/comments.

Trainnut 484: The plow and cab were yellow/blue lettering C&O - not a kitty cat in sight. I have heard that there is still one C&O-painted unit roaming the system but cannot verify that; I think it's a hybrid paint scheme, however, with C&O on the long hood and CSX on the front.

Buddkar: George M. was a fascinating figure. Your post was most interesting - the NYC had roomettes on the 1938 version of the 20th Century. Their ad copy said, "The roomette affords privacy and plenty of room in which to move around before retiring for the night and includes besides in-a-wall bed, a clothes locker, lavatory, and toilet."

Re the Northern Pacific: I believe it was the Minnesota Historical Society that published a book on NP dining car service awhile back (with recipes). The most interesting part of the book was a description of a trip from Chicago west and back again which focused on the daily activities of the dining car crew. Tell Boris that there's a recipe for fruitcake in the book that "serves 50." It calls for liberal use of rum (AWK should like that).

Cincinnati - So much of that has changed over the years, espcially across the river at places such as Stevens and DeCoursey. Also, the C&O up and over Cheviot is long gone. That was one of the more interesting sections of the old C&O.

As for the Big Red Machine - no comment, although I think Joe Morgan is by far the best baseball analyst in captivity. I remember the 1975 "Worlds Serious" when they played the Red Sox and seeing Morgan with that arm twitch when he was batting. As for Crosley Field, let's not forget the laundry behind the outfield wall.

The L&N ran into Cincinnati Union Station and I used to ride the Pan up there failry regularly. The Pan afforded a good connection to the N&W "Pochontas" which afforded a roomette and breakfast for $9.00 more than a coach seat. The "Pocahontas" had an ex Wabash dome car which allowed early morning viewing of the WV coalfields. Somewhere, I have color shots I took from that dome.

Providence - since our propritor quoted Popeye, I will too and say "I was borned there." Providence had an extensive trolley system. My mother who would ride on anything (including Cunard on the North Atlantic in winter) said the only time she ever got sick on any conveyance was during long trolley rides around Providence to visit family and friends - she said it seemed to take forever and she had her head out the window most of the way.

The trolleys were later replaced by trackless trolleys and buses. The main transfer point was in front of Union Station. BTW. the first thing you saw as you came oit of the station was the backside of Ambrose Burnside's horse. There's a statue of him in the square in front of the station; a metaphor for RI politics if there ever was one.

The old station still stands and is being used for other purposes. The new station is to the west of the old one; closer to the State Capitol. I know i posted some stuff here a long time ago re New Haven activities around Providence Harbor. If I posted the following abt riding the mail train from Providence to Boston, I apologize, but here it is again.

A trip on the mail train from Providence to Boston was an adventure. Train time. Far down the track in the maze of signal lights, a yellow light stabbed the darkness and glinted off the rails. One last bag tossed onto the third mail car and the doors rolled shut. A low "whonk, whonk" from the locomotive's horn and the mail train slowly rolled out from beneath the station's umbrella sheds into the rainy night. In the distance I could hear a freighter's whistle in the harbor.

Slowly at first and then faster the train moved, past the interlocking tower at the east end of the Providence station. This pagoda-roofed concrete tower controlled access to the New Haven line that ran through the East Providence tunnel and under the campus of Brown University to carry freight to the other side of the city. A curve to the left and then to the right let the track pass between basalt black stone walls. Next, the train passed through a factory district with sidings crowded with cars from different railroads such as Santa Fe, Burlington, Union Pacific, Missouri-Kansas-Texas, and Cotton Belt. Northup Avenue on the left and the Providence yard where I often saw a switcher making up a freight train or a set of road engines with a freight ready to head toward Cedar Hill or follow us up the road to Boston.

You folks are really giving me a lot of stuff to write abt. in the future, and I do appreciate it as different posts kick things back into what's left of my memory.

Question to proprietor - Are we going to do a segment on scary rr stories for Halloween? I thought I read somewhere where that was a possibility.

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day!

A better day yesterday than the day before, however – we’re still in the doldrums ‘round here. We’re not getting the necessary Posts during the daylight hours in order to keep us “up” and runnin’. Just check the numbers out on the past SUMMARIES; the times and people Posting tell the story. There was nearly 6 hours of “down time” during what should have been “peak” interest. We can do far better ….

Having said that, some appreciation is in order for those who do Post and do so regularly. [tup][tup][tup]

I’d say the Bell Ringer for yesterday was the Post by BudKarr on the Pullman Company. [yeah][wow][tup] Good job!s

Acknowledgements for pwolfe Pete & trolleyboy Rob:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:39:42

Your tales from New England, particularly Boston, bring to mind some similar ventures a few decades ago. Visiting the USS Constitution was a treat, even met the Commanding Officer – U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander (name escapes me). She goes to “sea” once a year and that is to turn her ‘round. Quite a history there indeed.

Can’t help with the Acela or those electrics, for I haven’t traveled them.

Check out this URL regarding your question on the Royal Navy Ensign displayed at a church in England: http://atlasgeo.span.ch/fotw/flags/gb-en_nf.html

So, you may find that the anecdotal stuff the New Englanders are passin’ about may be a bit thin. [swg]

PULLMAN in Great Britain would be something we’d all like to hear about. Perhaps you can put something together for us! [?] [tup]

Sorry, Pete but we accommodate most beer calls ‘round here, except for micro-brews. There have been a couple of exceptions, but we stick to the “main stream” as much as possible. Our distributor is workin’ overtime to ensure that we have adequate supplies of draught and bottled brews from all corners …… [swg]

I had hoped that GB Nostalgia piece would “draw you out” during daylight. I’m runnin’ outta bait! <grin> The A4 loco was a drawing on the poster, looked rather “boxy” with the streamline effect. What say you [?]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:59:55

Stories being told at our Rendezvous in Toronto! Well, I certainly hope so – those evenin’ get togethers should provide some great interaction and I too am looking forward to them. Now if we could only hear what is happenin’ with Nick [C=:-)]……. [%-)][%-)][%-)]

It appears as if some of us are actually planning to “come as we are” to the Boris Bash Halloween Party! [swg] Figured you’d like that idea, Count Trolleyboy

I think your new formatting is really workin’ quite well – THANX! [tup][tup] and the always inclusive nature of your Posts makes them even more worth the read! [yeah]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 23:42:31

What an interesting Post on the Nearside Car. Now that’s something I hope the guys will not let just sit in the Ether, as so very many of the submissions seem to do. One day I’m going to scroll back, back and back in order to try and select those Posts deserving special recognition – not for an “award,” but for inclusion within an Index or something similar. When I think of the ‘stuff’ that has been shared by passengerfan Al – coalminer3 CM3 – and now, BudKarr BK, and of course others, it seems like a shame not to “remind” one and all of where to look in order to find them. [yeah] Something ELSE for me to do! [swg]

I suppose it’s hindsight being 20/20, but the idea of boarding backasswards never did make any sense to me. Wonder what in the world they were thinking (or NOT) way back when [?]

Nice job, Rob – I’ve added this to the Classic Juice Index for Monday.

Okay – time to get about the day for me. I’m sticking to my plan of checking back about every 4 hours or so. Oh yes, there will be a NOSTALGIA piece comin’ this afternoon ……..

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Wabash

Headquarters: St. Louis, MO

Mileage in 1950: 2,393

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 319

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 14,240
Passenger cars: 126

Principal routes in 1950:

Buffalo, NY-Detroit, MI-Fort Wayne, IN-Decatur, IL-Springfield, IL-Moberly, MO-Kansas City, MO
Chicago-Decatur-St. Louis (followed Buffalo-KC Line Bement-Decatur)
St. Louis-Moberly, MO-Des Moines, IA
Brunswick, MO-Council Bluffs, IA
Toledo, OH-Chicago
Bluffs, IL-Keokuk, IA

Passenger trains of note:

Banner Blue (Chicago-St. Louis)
Blue Bird Chicago-St. Louis)
City of Kansas City (St. Louis-Kansas City)
City of St. Louis (St. Louis-Denver-Cheyenne-Los Angeles)
Des Moines Limited (St. Louis-Des Moines)
Detroit Arrow (Chicago-Detroit)
Detroit Limited (St. Louis-Detroit)
Kansas City Express (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Midnight Limited (St. Louis-Kansas City)
Omaha Limited (St. Louis-Omaha)
Pacific Coast Special (St. Louis-Pacific Coast points)
Red Bird (Chicago-Detroit)
St. Louis Limited (Detroit-St. Louis)
St. Louis Limited (Des Moines & Omaha-St. Louis)
St. Louis Special (Kansas City-St. Louis)
The Midnight (Chicago-St. Louis)
“Wabash Cannon Ball” (St. Louis-Detroit)

Of note: Chicago-Detroit service by PRR between Chicago-Fort Wayne; through trains west of Kansas City handled by UP

WABASH CANNONBALL
(unknown author & date)

From the great Atlantic ocean to the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains to the south lands by the shore She's mighty tall and handsome and she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination on the Wabash Cannonball
Listen to the jingle, the rumble and the roar
As she glides along the woodland through the hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine, hear the lonesome hoboes call
You're traveling through the jungles on the Wabash Cannonball
Our eastern states are dandy, so the people always say
From New York to St. Louis with Chicago by the way
From the hills of Minnesota where the rippling waters fall
No changes can be taken on the Wabash Cannonball
Now here's to Daddy Claxton, may his name forever stand
And always be remembered through the courts throughout the land
His earthly race is over, now the curtains round him fall
He’ll be carried home to Glory on the Wabash Cannonball!

. . . . . and another version!

From the great Atlantic Ocean
To the wide Pacific shore,
From sunny California
To ice-bound Labrador,
She's mighty tall and handsome,
She's known quite well by all,
She's the 'boes' accomodation
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:
From the great Atlantic ocean
To the wide Pacific shore
From the green ol' Smoky mountains
To the south lands by the shore
She's mighty tall and handsome
And she's known quite well by all
She's the regular combination
On the Wabash Cannonball

Chorus:
Listen to the jingle,
The rumble and the roar,
As she glides along the woodlands,
Through hills and by the shore
Hear the mighty rush of the engine,
Hear those lonesome hoboes squawl,
While traveling through the jungle
On the Wabash Cannonball

This train, she runs to Memphis,
Mattoon, and Mexico,
She rolls through East St. Louis
And she never does it slow,
As she flies through Colorado,
She gives an awful squawl,
They tell her by her whistle
The Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:
Our eastern states are dandy,
So the people always say,
From New York to St. Louis
And Chicago by the way,
From the hills of Minnesota
Where the rippling waters fall,
No changes can be taken
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:

Now here's to Boston Blackey,
May his name forever stand,
And always be remembered
By the 'boes throughout the land,
His earthly days are over
And the curtains 'round him fall,
We'll carry him home to Victory
On the Wabash Cannonball
Chorus:


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

WEDNESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

G’day! Mid-week and time for a good start to the day – you’re at the right place! Whatillyahave [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pike Perspectives Day! Narratives and track diagrams welcome!

(2) Thursday is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with Nick’s Picks!

(3) Friday is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(4) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(5) Sunday is Photo Posting Day!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:53:10 (146) Tuesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 05:56:19 (146) Fallen Flag L&N

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 07:58:36 (146) reply to pwolfe & trolleyboy, etc.

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 08:43:48 (146)

(5) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:12:18 (146) He’s baaaaaaaaack!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:48:36 (146) reply to Theodorebear & Trainnut484, etc.

(7) Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:36:11 (146)

(8) BudKarr BK Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:53:28 (146) PULLMAN Co.

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 12:09:55 (146) NOSTALGIA #13 Ad L&N

(10) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:20:12 (146)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:24:35 (146) GB NOSTALGIA #4 – Ad Silver Jubilee

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 15:10:07 (146) reply to Trainnut484 – BudKarr – coalminer3, etc.

(13) passengerfan Al Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 21:00:00 (146)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 21:40:29 (146) reply to passengerfan

(15) pwolfe Pete Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:39:42 (146) Inclusive Post!

(16) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 22:59:55 (146) Inclusive Post!

(17) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 23:42:31 (146) Classic Juice #6 The Nearside Car

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

I'm back again with a bit of rail information.since BK so expertly wove us the story of Pullman , I thought that I would try to do likewise ( most likely not quite as eloquantly )

The Nearside Car A Classic Juice tech story



Since the beginning of public transportation, fare collection and how it was handled has always been a determining factor of car design.When horse cars were first introduced the driver handled the horses and the conductor collected the fares from the passengers as they entered the rear of the car and exited at the front. This is ( was known) as pay as you enter. ( PAYE )

This continued into the electrification of the street railways.The conductor would signakl the stop and starts for the motorman via bell signals.Howerevr because passengers entered at the rear of the car the motorman did not always have a clear view of them and accidents were unfortunatly common as the motorman would start off and passengers would grab for a handrail etc miss and fall. This resulted in injuries sometimes deaths and lawsuits against the company.

To combat these problems and lawsuits, an English born Thomas E. Mitten ( who was the acting chairman of the executive commitee of Philladelphia Rapid Transit, initiated and oversaw the design of a new type of car.This car was ultimatly named the "Nearside" car.Passengers boarded and departed through the front doors on these cars, this gave the motorman much better control. The conductor sat behind the motorman and called out street names and destinations as well as still collecting the fairs and issuing the transfers.Passengers could still exit the car via the back doors if they wished

In the days before the Nearsides the car would pull through the intersection to line up the back doors for the passengers to board. So they stopped on the farside of the intersection. Mitten's design called for the passengers to enter at the front, so the cars stopped on the "near" side of the intersection, hence the name.

For political reasons trhe first cars of this design were built by J. G . Brill of Philladelphia. Both cars were sent to Buffalo and tested there for assesment as Buffalo's street railway was once served by Mitten as General manager. The first prototypes #6000 and 6001 were built in 1912.

The standard specs for these cars was as follows 45' 6" in length over the anticlimbers.width of 8' 5" ,top of the rail to top of the roof 12' 0". The original design called for the use of Brill's maximum traction truck 33" driving ( powered ) wheels and the second axel with 22" non powered. IN typical Brill fashion the cars had a high arched roof for summer time ventilation.

The Brill records show that slightly more than 2000 of these casr were built. Used by Buffalo,Chicago,Philladelphia,Atlantic City ,and Lincoln Nebraska. One of these cars was made for Canada for the British Columbia Electric Railway ( BCE ) in Vancouver. It was number 501 and was to be the prototype no more were ordered however. Philly not supprisingly had the largest fleet numbering 1500 cars

The Nearside was the first of two major fare collection induced design changes for streetcars. the next happening in 1920 by peter Witt of Cleveland. That story will come later.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. Let Tom know that I have procured a new shipment of CR of which I will partake of one.

Tom As always a nice choice of fallen flags. The L&N has sparked some interesting info from the boys as well. I like to think of them as the classic gritty coal hauler. Staffed by never say die alco locomotives. I've seen many a nice shot of their RS3's and C420's pulling for all that they were worth. swetting the assets as they say[tup]

hopefully Sir nick and Pete will pick up on your latest Brit rail nostalgia piece. I love hearing more info from those who lived it. [tup]

With so many of your storeis left to be told next may in Toronto I think we may need a week to do them all justice.[swg] More and more I'm looking forward to them.

CM3 Glad you poped by today as well, again more thoughtfull insightfull and enjoyable personal tidbits.I can't imagine what the rain of golf balls could have sounded like on the roof of the F unit. I know having waited out a thundershower inside one of the barns at the museum and knowing the volume of that which was just rain on a tin roof.The story of the body in the baggage card seems appropriate for this time of year as well. I'm sure that there are many other similar stories from the other railways out there as well. Several city streetcar systems operated funeral cars, usually well appointed with wing chairs for the families. I beleave that the orange county museum has a funeral trolley from the Los Angelas street railway on their property. The only similar cars here in Canada were operated by the Montreal tramway company. They had a spur built into the Hawthorndale cemetary !

BK What can I say. An absolutley wonderfull, and detailed post. [tup][:)] A perfect piece to work with our classic frame of mind here. I'm glad that you went so far as to explain the differences between the various sleeper cars. I really didn't know what the differences were between the 12-1's or roomettes lets say. So thank-you fior shedding some light on the topic for me [bow]

Ted I haven't taken the peek at your new disc's yet. I was uploading some shots of my layout and a few more new museum shots. Have a peek on page 8 and see what you think. I'm looking forward to seeing your classic rolling stock. You can't say enough about them really, they were built to last! I think that I may dress up for the beasts wedding birthday celebration as well. I think I'll some as a vampire.hmmm wonder where I got that idea [?]

Russell Glad that you made it back in as well. Like Tom I can understand your frustration at picture posting. I'm always a bit uneasy about it myself but I like to think that the vast majority of us can and will respect others property intellectual or otherwise. ( probably small town Ontario talking there ) Pictures do say a thousand words.

Were you a participant in the modelling show / contest you mentioned. If so how did you fare [?]


Well gentleman I'm caught up now so I'maway to my crypt for now.MWA HA HA HA. I vant to read about more trains


Haf a good nite Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

Still on the New England theme, a pint of Golden Spike Ale from the Union Station Brewery Provedence please.

Thanks for the kind words TOM TED RUSSELL AND ROB its good to be back [tup].
Hopefully I will have some photos from the wifes digital camera. I am still in the stone age with a 35mm.

We were based in Providence on the trip to Boston we were hauled by amtrak electric locos numbered in the 900s I, m afraid I know little about them also the ACELA units were working and seemed to be on time.In Boston we walked the Freedom Trail. and finished up at the USS Constitution the oldest commissioned warship in the world, with a mainmast height of 220ft. Not a classic train but a sight well worth seeing [yeah].
A [?] for you TOM do you know which Church in England is the only one allowed to fly the Royal Navy Ensign.(something I was told in Boston).

One Classic train we did get to was theVALLEY RAILROAD in Essex Conn.They have a good operation going with a steam train ride to Chester Port which connects with a boat for a cruise along the Connecticut River then steam back to Essex.
The loco was an ex Birmingham & Alabama(if I heard correctly). It was built by ALCO in 1928 a 2-8-0 works # 65188.The car we were in was ex Delaware& Lakawanna with reverseable seats.

In Providence the local downtown bus service is worked by busses made to look like Trolleys [%-)]. They pass through a Bus Only tunnel dated 1912 was this part of a real trolley system once[?].
A week was no where near enough time and TED the wife said the seafood was wonderful.

BK The PULLMAN name was a byword for luxury train travel my side of the pond too.
Thanks for a great piece. I am trying to picture a 16 wheeled car[wow]

TOM and CM3 thanks for the flag and info on the L&N a line I knew little about. [tup]

Another great GB nostalia on the A4,locos 70th birthday. The preseved A4 named after the locos designer SIR NIGEL GRESLEY is nearly ready to steam again. I,ll try to find out a bit more on the Silver Jubilee service for tomorrow.

Well I had better have a pint for the road then [zzz] PETE.

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Al

Once again you've saved the day! No Posts from anyone for nearly 6 hours in "prime time." Don't really know what to make of this. Saw two of our guys online at this thread, doing the "Phantom Browse" for quite awhile - no Posts. Hmmmmmm.

Was just about to close up the joint when I saw your Post ... thanx for the round - no point in ringing the bell, but I'll have one! [tup]

I traveled aboard Southern Railway from Mobile to NYC back in 1950. Haven't the foggiest what the name of the train was, but it was a fine trip for a 12 year old. I recall the observation lounge, diner and of course the bedroom. Was far too young to recall the details, but it was train riding in "sytle" aboard the stainless steel gleeming train. I do remember how "cool" it looked.

Appreciate the elaboration on the roads we're discussing. That's the idea! Thought for sure you'd mention BK's contribution on the Pullman Company. That was a fine Post.

I'm in hopes that we'll see some of the regulars pick up the slack 'round here. Without the dependable ones, we've found ourselves in quite a funk, in spite of the efforts of a few to keep things movin' along. I'm beginning to wear thin ......

Leon the Night Man has the bar and we are closing at midngiht - count on it!

Looks like the White Sox are giving the Astros "fits" in the World Series - just as many figured they would, including me. One hulluva team this year, for sure.

Nite ... .[zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Guess I'll start with a CR and better set up a round for the house.

Enjoyed the L&N fallen flag write up and also the Crescent highlights. Few people realise that the Crescent was a joint operation of the Southern, PRR, L&N, A&WP and WofA. The postwar streamlined Crescent was all stainless steel and their were four train sets necessary for daily operation between New York and New Orleans. The train was actually two very distinct trains for many years. Between New York and Atlanta the train was all Pullman and between Atlanta and New Orleans coaches were added. The Crescent has the distinction of operating the only Master room in the Southestern United States. And being a streaml;ined all Pullman train it was part of a very distinct group of trains in the US. The streamlined All Pullman trains, Twentieth Century Limited, Broadway Limited, General, Comodore Vanderbilt, Spirit Of St. Louis, Liberty Limited, Pittsburgher, Chief, Super Chief, Panama Limited, Florida Special, Capitol Limited, City of Los Angeles, Treasure Island Special, Arizona Limited, Lark, Cascade and San Francisco Overland. Just recalling all of them from memory I don't think I have forgotten any.
The Crescent and the Florida Special were the only two All Pullman streamliners in the southest, but the Crescent was the only one regularly operated with a Master Room. Although the PRR did assign two Observations for at least one winter to the Florida Special that were equipped with Master Rooms.
Well that is about enough from me for the I still have one mare day of classes then take my fianl exam in two weeks. After that I should be able to get back to Our Place more often until Tax Season beginning in January.
The Crescent was a truly fine train and one of America.s finest. I personally had the pleasure of riding it once as a Southern train and later as the Southern Crescent and still later as an Amtrak train.

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Looks like a few responses are in order on this rather pleasant Tuesday here in mid-continent USA ….. temps in the high 50’s, blue skies with white clouds and hardly any breeze a’tall. Nice. Oh [yeah] gasoline up at the “Collusion Corner” is $2.45 (rounded).

Acknowledgements for Trainnut 484 Russel – BudKarr BK – coalminer3:

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:36:11

First off – thanx for the round! Had to turn back a few of ‘em yesterday for lack of business! Today we’ve got a few at the bar who will appreciate your generosity! [tup]

Hey! I understand where you are comin’ from regarding the “stuff” going on regarding the use of materials on the Internet. Chalk it up to “unintended consequences” of the technology. Just consider the fact that anyone can and does use the resources. From the irresponsible to the responsible, from the child to senior citizen, from the …….. oh, you get the point! The situation cannot be controlled – never was thought out fully in that regard. For all the “good” we make of its use, there are many “downsides” too. But, for what we do ‘round here, can’t be beat, eh [?] [swg]

Appreciate your 2nd Post and hope that you can keep us in your “break time” more often than not.

BudKarr BK Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 10:53:28

What’s to say about that Post of yours, other than: Tweeeeeeeet, Tweeeeeeeet! Rules violations! Rules violations! Rules #1 and #2 Failure to greet the barkeep AND order a drink! Boris Ring it TWICE – drinks on BK! [swg]

That was quite a run down on the Pullman story and I hope that our guys don’t pass this one by. Really well done and appreciated! [tup] You’re becoming more ‘n more the Classic Trains Aficionado! [yeah][wow][tup]

Accounts of the Classics just isn’t complete without Pullman being mentioned and yours is a grand tribute. Thanx!

Hope we can visit with you a bit more frequently ‘round here. As you may know, we’ve been in a drought of sorts.

Your commentary regarding one of our “number” not being very considerate wasn’t lost on me. However, in this life we come across all kinds – some are just very into and unto themselves – centric, if you will. He probably doesn’t do these things deliberately, but does them nonetheless. Happens, as they say. I think I’ve said this more than a few times – I’d be plainly embarrassed to be so obvious in my ignorance – and I don’t embarrass that easily! [swg]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 14:20:12

G’day to you Sir! Thought perhaps you “skipped” us this fine day. Was wonderin’, did you not catch the Fallen Flag NP Post and NOSTALGIA piece from yesterday [?] I ask because two Posts were made about an hour after the first “flag” Post, with no comment. That makes me wonder what the “delay” might be for those logging on.

Good train stories – buried in golf balls would be a better choice over drowning in pink paint! Neither is a good choice, mind ya – but I’d take the former. Never cared for golf anyway, actually – rather watch paint dry! [swg]

Can proudly state that I’ve visited the “Opry” twice in my life – once at the original location and the other at its present spot. Second time was a special show for a convention that I was at. What a great event and what a bunch of “headliners” for that one. No disappointments – ever while in Nashville, USA! Howwwwwwwwwwwdy!

Never rode the L&N but used to watch ‘em while visiting with family in Cincinnati. Lots of railroadin’ in that town back when the kids were little, visiting the grandparents. Good memories – and the baseball team wasn’t bad either! Big Red Machine when they were in their teens. Prior to that, some competitive line ups for sure. Old Crosley Field was an absolute joy to take in a game. “Big Klu” knocking the socks off the ball – ah yes, Cincy – beer, baseball, chili and more beer! [swg]

Ah, the stories we can tell, eh [?] At the time some of ‘em were “side splitters” for sure. That accounting of the casket in the baggage car brings to mind a quickie – but not of trains – of burials at sea. In one instance the guy wouldn’t sink. The wrapped body in the bag, with weights, just floated. Here we were about a thousand miles off the coast and the body seemed to just gently roll with the swells. Had to lower a boat, send the guys out with boat hooks, to “help” the thing go down by punching some holes in what turned out to be a rather water tight bag! Second one involved spreading ashes of the deceased over a specific latitude and longitude. Well whoever had the “con” screwed up, for when the urn was opened and the ashes “spread” they blew back all over the guys standing in “honor” in their white uniforms! Hate it when things like that happen! [swg]

Thanx for the round – Boris do your thing! – and of course those ever luvin’ quarters for our Wurlitzer!

Catch ya later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

GREAT BRITAIN PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #4 from multiple sources

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains, this time from Great Britain! Check this 1935 poster out!

. . . . . . . . . .”THE SILVER JUBILEE” . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . SILVER LINK 4-6-2 #2509 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

BRITAINS FIRST STREAMLINE TRAIN

NEWCASTLE AND LONDON IN 4 HOURS

AVERAGE THROUGHOUT SPEED 67.0 M.P.H.

Weekdays (Saturdays excepted) from 30th. September 1935

NEWCASTLE - - dep am 10.0 ………. KING’s CROSS - - dep pm 5.30
DARLINGTON - - - - - - - - 10.42 ………DARLINGTON - - - - arr - - - 8.48
KING’S CROSS – arr pm 2.0 ……….. NEWCASTLE - - - - - - - - - - 9.30

. . . . . . . . . .Connecting trains serve Tyneside and Tees-side . . . . . . . . .

SUPPLEMENTARY FARES: First Class 5/- Third Class 3/-

LONDON & NORTHEASTERN RAILWAY


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[coalminer3]

Good Afternoon All: Coffee please, round for the hosue and more for the jukebox. Interesting weather here today - snow, sleet, snain and snog (aks mixed precip.) I know, but work occupied things earlier this a.m.

Now you are doing L&N. I spent several yrs in Nashville back before the L&N vanished. Lots of stuff in the notebooks there, for sure. You may have seen the CSX engine "Col. Phil Hooper." He was a dear friend and spent a great deal of time intorducing me to the L&N and many folks who worked for that road.

Here are some L&N stories and a bit of radio history as well.

The following is an L&N story which may or may not be true. The engineer that told it to me did enjoy a good yarn over a tall one. Anyway it involves a set of L&N F units which were on their way from Nashville to Birmingham with a freight train. The road twists and turns on its way to Alabama and, you guessed it, the train came around a curve and there was a semi sitting on a grade crossing.

The engineer dumped the air and did a classic duck and cover. The next thing he knew, the engines passed through the trailer and the engineer found he couldn't move when the crashing noises stopped. It turns out that he had hit a trailer full of golf balls. According to my buddy, the engineer in question never bought another golf ball in his life. This is similar to two other stories I heard, one on the Central Vermont, and one on the L&N where a train hit a trailer load of pink paint. You get the idea.

I had many enjoyable rides on the 'Pan American."

Those of you that are devotees of country music are familiar with "Clear Station 650 - WSM - Home of the Grand Ole Opry." The WSM transmitter was (is) just south of Nashville and for years they broadcast the whistle of the "Pan" as it passed by the transmitter. This was done live, according to an old head I knew at WSM, and by recording when the train was late (which was not very often).

Now we'll wind up with one more "Pan" story which I know is true because I was there. The Pan used to have a baggage car in the old sense of the word in that it carried just about everything you could think of including remains going home to their final rest. One evening in Nashville, the baggage man (and several others) had a tough time wrestling a casket into the baggage car. Anyway, the casket was inside and the engineer looked back along the train, caught the highball from the conductor and got ready to pull. Two short "toots" and a pair of L&N E8s leaned into their train and started to move. They hadn't one very far when I heard all of this commotion from in the baggage car, as the baggage man was creatively stringing words together. "Stop the !@#$ train! Stop the !@#$ train! I ain't goin' to Birmingham with no !@#$ stiff!" So much uproar in so little space........

work safe

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #13

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Louisville and Nashville (L&N) from an advertisement in Classic American Trains


The NEW Crescent
A GRAND NEW TRAIN WITH A GRAND OLD NAME

In Daily Service between New Orleans, Atlanta, Washington and New York

Recommend and Sell the Year’s Finest Travel Packge

STREAMLINED, STAINLESS STEEL CARS
The Crescent is new from end to end. It’s the last word in streamliners. all cars are constructed of stainless steel and offer latest comfort and safety features.

ALL-PRIVATE-ROOM SLEEPERS
A selection of five different type private rooms – new 3-bed master room with shower and individual radio, drawing room, bedroom en suite, bedroom, and roomette. Each offers private lavatory, clothes closet, ice water and individually controlled lighting, heating and air conditioning.

LOUNGE AND OBSERVATION CARS
The finest atmosphere is found in the mid-train club lounge and the luxurious observation car. Comfortable chairs, music and convenient game or writing tables offer a “club on wheels” for rest and relaxation.

NOTHING FINER IN DINERS
The Crescent diners serve Southern cooking at is best. Every service to make every meal a travel treat has been provided – even to telephone communication between sleeping cars and diners.

COACH SERVICE
De luxe coaches with individual reclining seats are operated between New Orleans and Atlanta with connecting service beyond.

LOUISVILLE AND NASHVILLE RAILROAD


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[BudKarr]

Good Day Gentlemen,

I have returned and feel that a bit of explanation is in order. The thing I do to pay the bills has me on a rather short string. They call, I go. The calls have been coming rather frequently. I am still interested in your rendezvous in Toronto and also that trip to Hudson Bay. Timing of course will determine my ability to join you.

Thank you to all who provided some elaboration on the APT. Although I am now not so sure what the question was!

Caveat: This was begun nearly two weeks ago. Interruptions have prevented me from completing this endeavor in a timely fashion.

Original lead in:

I wi***o commend our Proprietor and barkeep once again for the outstanding efforts put forth in keeping us all reading about Classic Trains. The fallen flags and nostalgia pieces (as you refer to them) are very captivating and in keeping with the premise you put forth for us all. The contributions, particularly from CM3 and others, are also enlightening, educational and reminiscent of days gone by. Thank you for sharing them with us. I should also mentioned Sir Nick in West Wales and the information coming from that quarter. Truly makes this an international place of interest. Thank you as well.

Sad to say that one of your number is a rank ignoramus when it comes to recognition of not only your efforts, but those of others. With all of the postings that have been made and his only reference is to a URL, well that speaks volumes. Are you positive this person really deserves the honor bestowed upon him? I for one applaud your policy of not rewarding bad behavior.

Now, I had put together one of those submissions that took me quite a bit of time, only to have it gobbled up by those gremlins you have referred to. I had it in my word processor as well, but erased it once I thought the posting went through. Unfortunately, they are both now in the ether, so to speak. Gad zooks, is the phrase that comes to mind.

Another go is in order.

The endeavor:

A Man Named Pullman

There are volumes that have been written about George Mortimer Pullman (1831-1897) and the long lasting contributions his innovativeness of the railroad car and management of them made to North American railroading. Some highlights are in order:

(1) Born into a Brockton, NY family of farmers and mechanics in 1831, it is appropriate to state that he was NOT the inventor of the sleeping car. That distinction, according to history, goes to the Cumberland Valley Railroad, who began operation of those types of cars several years before Pullman’s birth.

(2) His first venture into the adult world was as a cabinet maker, turned contractor. The latter brought him to Chicago where he met a man named Benjamin Field, who would become a long time partner and associate in the rail car management, design and operation business.

(3) The first railroad to adopt the Pullman-Field approach to sleeping cars was the Chicago, Alton & St. Louis Railroad in 1859 when they accepted the offer to have two of their coaches remodeled into sleepers.

(4) In 1865, the largest and most costly car of the day was built by Pullman himself, appropriately named the Pioneer for the westward expansion of the railroads to the Pacific Coast. This car had the distinction of costing $20 thousand, about 5 times the cost of a coach, had 16 wheels, and 12 sections of sleeper units. IT was longer, wider and higher than the standard coaches of the day. In fact the Pioneer was used in President Lincoln’s funeral consist and required the stations along the way to make structural changes to their platforms in order to accommodate the passing train! The Pioneer was credited with having the first fold down berths, and while perhaps not the most luxurious in design and accommodations, was at least as well appointed.

(5) By the end of 1866, every major railroad serving Chicago signed on the Pullman-Field sleeping car operation. Field decided that Pullman was better off on his own, and stepped aside.

(6) Early in the 1870s, 800 of Pullman’s cars operated over 30,00 miles of track in an association between his company and the ACL, CRI&P, DL&W, MP, NP, AT&SF and SP. It was to be that Pullman’s “Empire” would buy up the contracts of the association railroads, thereby providing him with the sole access desired.

(7) Upon his untimely death in 1897, the heirs of the family took over and moved forward with the innovations many take for granted even to this day:

(a) PULLMAN 12-1: Usually this heavyweight trailed the streamlined consist – with the exception of a heavyweight lounge car midway in the string. The car was a 12 section, 1 drawing room Pullman rather common back in the 40’s.

(b) PULLMAN SECTION SLEEPER: Provided the most basic in terms of sleeping accommodations for the first class traveler. This arrangement may be posed an awkward situation for some, as complete strangers wound up sharing the unit. The protocol was passengers who purchased the upper-berths were obliged to sit in the rearward facing seats during daytime travel, whereas the lower berths entitled the passengers to the forward facing ones. The upper berth was without windows, and was accessed by a ladder. Heavy, dark curtains provided privacy for the sleepers in each unit.

(c) THE ROOMETTE: A 1937 innovation provided the privacy and space demanded by the traveling public. These were smaller than double bedrooms, but much more affordable for the single traveler. By day, there was a wide, plush seat with a toilet facility. At night, the bed folded out of the wall, covering the toilet, but gave a window level, wall to wall, bed. This accommodation became the most popular following the end of WWII.

(d) THE DOUBLE BEDROOM: This was the choice for traveling couples. With two beds, two collapsible day chairs and a fully accessible toilet (at all times), a cozy environment was provided for the train travelers. There were two types: (1) a couch that folded into a bed, crosswise to the rails, with a second bed folded down from the ceiling. (2) Then there were the fold down bunks parallel to the rails.

(e) MASTER BEDROOM: Some referred to this as a “cousin” to the Drawing Room. Both featured three beds, but the difference was the fully enclosed shower in the Master Bedroom. The bunk beds were perpendicular to the rails, whereas the third bed was at window level and parallel to them.

(f) PULLMAN RESTAURANT CAR: In the 1930s, Pullman converted many heavyweights into “Parlour – restaurant” or “restaurant-sleeper” cars. This was done to supplement the operating railroad’s usually full dining cars. Pullman’s own employees were assigned to these cars and they quickly became the “car of choice” for Pullman travelers. Elegance in dining was commonplace at these tables.

(8) THE END: The Pullman Company ceased collecting money and staffing cars after December 31, 1968. Shortly thereafter the maintenance for the cars ended, thereby leaving the host railroads with a choice: staff them on their own, or discontinue the sleepers.

POST SCRIPT: There is so much not said within this submission about this fine company. Those who created it, nurtured it and operated it have a place in railroad lore, just as well as those who staffed and maintained those wonderful Pullmans of days gone by.

BK

[Trainnut484]

Hello again Tom and the gang, I'll have a cup of coffee for now. I've had my limit on pastries for now.

*** and Al, the only thing I can add on crew hotels is the Santa Fe had one in my ol' hometown. The crew haulers would shuttle them back and forth. If that was full, there was a small mom 'n' pop hotel downtown that was within walking distance from the depot.

Tom, the university I'm attending is DeVry. They are a private institution that has programs designed for students to receive their degrees quicker than the standard four years. With that, I do know of misintentions of today's technology. Some are more serious than copying pictures. I've seen published photos in books where the captions says "so-and-so's collection," but not the name of the photographer. I've recognized some photos taken by people I know that were published in that distasteful matter. The proper way is to write "photographer unknown.....so-and-so's collection." Some may disagree, but it is the proper, legal (if copyrighted), and most respected way of publishing photos.

Okay I'm a little off-topic here...Boris ring the ding-a-ling-thing..Round for the house on ME.

Russell

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Well the unusual has occurred - the return of Trainnut484 Russell and the daily "blurb" from Manager Ted. No point in waiting 'til noon-i***o respond ....... [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: Today, 08:43:48

Had wondered whether you were in a power failure situation - but then I checked out your local newspapers (via Yahoo) and didn't see anything to indicate that had happened. Anyway .... relieved to kow that all's well.

It's always gratifying to know that one's efforts are in fact being read - just takes a bit of time - sometimes - for the feedback. Then there's the continuing "mystery" of Posting without having the access to the most recent info. For example, for whatever the reason, one may call up the Forum screen, get to our Thread, but not see the Posts for perhaps the past hour or more. That is strange, indeed. Happened yesterday - twice - as no one picked up on the Fallen Flag NP until much later in the day. 'Tis a puzzlement! (Yule Brenner, The King & I).

Costume for the Boris Bash-Halloween Party [?] I think I'll dress out as an aging sailor, with a parrot on my shoulder, an eye patch, a growth of beard and a hook for a "port" hand. [yeah] Matey, that'll do 'er ........ Arggggggh! [oX)]

I can relate to being on the wrong side of long passing freights! Never encounted them as often as when I first arrived out in these parts back in 1977 - especially over on the "east side" in Illinois (Granite City in particular). Unbelievable numbers of 'em. Was following a person "home" and .......... well, better told at the Rendezvous in Toronto! [swg]

Trainnut484 Russell Posted: 25 Oct 2005, 09:12:18

He lives! [#welcome] Back! [tup] What IS it with this school that you are attending [?] We're kinda readin' between the lines with this. [swg] Hey, I began my freshman year at the University of Missouri-St. Louis at the "tender" age of 50, so why not![?] [yeah] I finished in 4 years and it was a blast. Far easier than going to work every day - but the "kids" didn't think so. [swg] A story best told at the Rendezvous in Toronto!

Nice inclusive catch-up Post, Russell! [tup]

I understand your feelings about pix on the net - but that's just a part of the unintended consequences of this technology. We'd all like to believe that the particpants will do the "right thing." HA - take a stroll through life, m'boy, that ain't reality. How many people "blow off" Stop Signs [?] How many speed [?] How many simply take advantage of virtually anyone and anything they can [?] Sad commentary, I know, but that's what I see on a daily basis and it doesn't seem to be getting any better. [tdn]

Regarding our Sunday Photo Posting Day! activities, I suppose one should not Post anything that one feels is "proprietary" in any way. Once in the Ether, it's out there for one and all .......

I will be putting together an Email for you and the boyz who live in the mid-west. Thinking of organizing a Rendezvous for us. Details as they develop, but by Email. Watch for it in a week or so .........

Appreciate the comments regarding the Fallen Flags. Those and the NOSTALGIA pieces are listed in the Summary for Monday should you wi***o look up some you've missed out on.

Catch y'all later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Trainnut484]

Good morning Tom and everyone. I'll have a strong cup of java and a danish from the Mentor bakery.

Sorry if I haven't posted in a while. I've been busy with finals and a couple of modeling projects, and those I'm not quite finished. New semester begins for me on Nov 1st, so my spare time is limited. The 18th annual Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society's mini meet here in Kansas City this past weekend was a huge success. Harry Briscoe, a retired Santa Fe official, spoke about his time on the railroad, and autographed copies of his new book "Watching the Trains Go By". We had other great presentations as well.

Okay, I've caught up with some past posts, but may have to reply in more posts.

Ted, thank goodness you survived Wilma. My thoughts were with you yesterday when it hit. Hopefully your house and other property escaped the wrath without too much damage. I'm still appalled at the people in Cancun who thought they could wait through the storm. They complained of poor sanitary conditions after the fact. What did they expect?[:(!] They had the chance to get out of there before Wilma came.

Tom, thanks for the info on the L&N, GN, and BAR. I thought about posting a pic of an ex-BAR locomotive (still in BAR paint) I took a few weekends ago, but some certain people think copying pics is the way to go. It hasn't bothered me until now. I frown [:(!] on that sort of thing, especially if the object is still around and readily available for pictures. That's why I didn't participate in this Sunday's Photo Posting Day. If those in interest would like to see the BAR pic, I can post it, but it will be modified to discourage copying. Future Sunday Photo pics will be modified too.

Pete, nice to have you back. I hope you and the Mrs. had a great time on your New England trip. I look forward to hearing the tales of your trip.

Dan, it's great to hear that you're on the healing track. I know the folks at the Midland miss having you around. It wasn't quite normal without you here too.

Rob, thanks for the insightful posts on VIA. Great pics Sunday too [:)]

Coalminer3, were the C&O snowplow and caboose in their own colors? I've always had a liking for C&O's colorful scheme with the kitten logo.

Gee, Boris's[alien] wedding is off?? That's about as close to a Hollywood wedding you can get without the nuptials.

Gotta catch my breath for now, another cup of coffee please

Russell

[Anonymous]

Hi Tom and all those present in the "breakfast bunch." Just a Kaiser Roll, butter and a Juan Valdez for the moment please. Welcome back Pete, it sounds as though your New England sojourn was a rousing success. Thanks for the added comments on the A.P.T., very enlightening.[tup] Sorry, no help for info on the Providence-Boston equipment now in use but I'm sure your questions will be answered anon. I know you will have more to say on the rail movements, dining, etc. from your vacation. We all certainly appreciate your sage comments and narrative style. Again, welcome home.

Rob, please ignore my last e-mail, in re, tracer for snail mail. Great gobbules of Gander's Goose glop! What mode of transport is the Royal Canadian Mail employing these days? I could've hand carried the parcel faster in 12 days time. I hope you find something of interest on the discs. The B & O Diesel A unit is a Hobbytown EMD E-7 and the 4-6-2 Pacific steam loco is a vintage Varney deluxe kit. They weigh a ton but can pull the ties from the roadbed with those old open frame Pittman DC-90 motors. Again, these efforts are my earliest and many improvements were and are being made. Thanks again Rob.

Tom, the L & N and N.P. are surely welcome "keepers" among the Fallen Flags series you have generously made available to us. Never imagine that your extra efforts are under appreciated, never happen! The N.P. green-on-green has long been my favorite of the Western roads. Sorry to say that my knowledge of the L & N is some where between limited to ZIP. I only recall very long mainline freight consists running "smack" through Main streets in small hamlets and towns throughout the "Old South." Once, I found myself "on the wrong side of the tracks" after indulging in a B.B.Q. feast of glutinous proportions, only to be blocked (by a 50 car freight) from my hotel on the opposite side of "Main St." It was an event with nearly catastrophic results.[V] 'Nuff said![xx(] The N.P. is a different story and in a later Post I will "do my bit" to contribute some background on this fine R.R.

So, I need to take advantage of this great Fall weather we now enjoy.[tup] More of my time will be spent outside and in the garage for improving on the layouts (in progress). Somehow, I can't get a lot accomplished in front of the old C.R.T. and P.C. board. Hopefully, everyone will attend our Speciman's Custodian's day of nativity, Oct. 31st.[alien] Costumes are encouraged for all but not mandatory. I'm coming as a "door post" so as to keep consistant with the interest created by my ramblings herein. So long for now and happy rails to all.

[siberianmo]

G’day Gents!

Yesterday's Posts contained info on the Northern Pacific, certainly hope that everyone has taken the opportunity to view them. These Fallen Flags and NOSTALGIA Posts are for YOUR enjoyment ........

Acknowledgements for pwolfe Pete & trolleyboy Rob:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 22:14:42

[#welcome] Back! [tup] Always good to see you ‘round here and perhaps now we can get back to a semblance of regularity with the Posts.

Glad to learn that you and your bride enjoyed your get away to New England. I used to live up thataway – 8 years total; 3 in Connecticut (Norwich) and 5 in Massachusetts (Boston area). Very expensive on the salary I was drawing at the time, but some wonderful things to do ‘n see. Family enjoyed it, especially the winters! [yeah] And yes – that rail right-of-way you traveled on aboard Amtrak in all likelihood was the former New Haven’s.

It always gratifies me to read that someone who has been away takes the time to catch up, rather than simply “jump in” as if everything Posted in between doesn’t “count.” You, Sir, are a valued customer! [tup] Have one on me! [swg] Oh [yeah], don’t know how you got in, for the bar was closed early last night! Leon had the night off and Boris should know better, but then again …. [swg]

Speaking of our cloven-footed friend, the wedding is OFF. This idea really never got off the ground, as the Can-Am County Attorney General got into the legality; Manager Ted found the idea reprehensible; I was similarly inclined and it just spiraled downward. The Oooooompah Gals[?] Well, my guess is they are arm wrestling their way across the “Euro Continent,” pickin’ up conquests as they go …… [swg]

Hope you are able to find a “slot” for Posting and then settle back in to the routine. [tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 22:41:18

I was going to Tweeeeeet you for a Rule #1 violation, but the bar was closed! You escaped – this time! We’ve just got to figure out a way to spring you loose during daylight. Pretty soon you’ll be wearing a black cape, growing rather long canine teeth, and speaking with a Transylvanian accent. “I vant to haf a beeeeeeeeeer!” [swg]

Regarding the “HEP” reference by VIA Rail: Nope, VIA pretty much began with that right ‘round the time of the entry of the “Renaissance (Euro)” cars. Prior to that they simply referred to them as “stainless steel cars.” Then the “HEP” usage came in for a couple of years, and now they are back to “stainless steel cars.” The reference always appeared to me to be absolutely out of line for the purposes of the traveling public. Who gives a Rat’s Patoot regarding that terminology when it comes to DESCRIBING the cars in the consist [?] They blew it – they knew it – they change it. I’d like to think that some of us who wrote letters helped the process along. Idiots!

If one is observant, there are so many “issues” out there regarding incorrect or inappropriate terminology as applied to various modes of travel. I recall one time that an airline employee kept referring to a Lockheed L1011 as a “prop jet.” Man, that was so far from the truth, but she simply was “scripting,” and apparently hers was way off. Idiots!

Then there was a news reporter interviewing me regarding a significant operation we had just concluded. “Coast Guard boats and their officers ……..” My blood boiled and I corrected her on the spot. Boats are carried aboard ships that we refer to as Cutters, and all of our crews are not officers! When the news came on that night, it began with, “Coast Guard boats and their officers ……” Idiots!

The idea of a “Hostess/Nurse” is really no different than having someone designated as a “Tour Director” or whatever other title would be appropriate for the type of journey undertaken. There was a time when long distance trains carried medical personnel – it was a “given.” Somewhere in the archives of “rules ‘n regulations,” I’m sure someone can find the “edict” to base the practice on. Using the term “Nurse” provided a bit of comfort to those who wondered about things like that – you know, “what happens if …..”

Although I never encountered one – especially when I came down with the “Cruise Ship Virus” (Norwalk Virus) in 2003 en route Toronto aboard the “Canadian,” – supposedly VIA Rail had a similar practice – but didn’t advertise it. In my experience, no one of competency visited me during the time I was down ‘n out. But that was previously chronicled on this thread – no need to rehash it again. So, you surely can see the merit behind the idea, especially for the long distance runs. Far too expensive these days (daze) would be my guess.

Appreciated your Inclusive Post as always! [tup][tup]

Time for me to get about my day. As has been my recent practice, unless something unusual takes place – I’ll check back in about every 4 hours or so.

Catch ya later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Louisville & Nashville (L&N)

Headquarters: Louisville, KY

Mileage in 1950: 4,779

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 732

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 59,077
Passenger cars: 483

Principal lines in 1950:

Cincinnati-New Orleans via Louisville, Nashville, Lewisborg, TN & Birmingham
Nashville-St. Louis via Evansville, IN
Louisville-Evansville
Memphis Junction, KY (Bowling Green)-Memphis
Cincinnati-Atlanta via Knoxville, TN & Cartersville, GA
Flomaton, AL-Chattahoochie, FL
Anchorage-Hazard, KY via Lexington
Corbin-Baxter, KY
Lebanon Junction-Sinks, KY

Passenger trains of note:

Azalean (New York-New Orleans via Montgomery; joint with PRR, SR and Atlanta & West Point.
Crescent (New York-New Orleans via Montgomery; joint with PRR, SR and A&WP.
Dixie Flagler (Chicago-Miami via Evansville, Nashville & Atlanta)
Dixie Flyer (Chicago-Florida via Evansville, Nashville & Atlanta)
Dixieland (Chicago-Miami via Louisville, Nashville & Montgomery)
Flamingo (Cincinnati-Jacksonville via Corbin, KY)
Georgian (Chicago & St. Louis-Atlanta)
Gulf Wind (New Orleans-Jacksonville; joint with ACL)
Humming Bird (Chicago & St. Louis & Cincinnati-New Orleans & Memphis; joi8nt with Chicago & Eastern Illinois)
Pan-American (Cincinnati-Memphis & New Orleans)
Piedmont Limited (New York-New Orleans via Montgomery; joint with PRR, SR and A&WP)
Southland (Detroit-Florida via Louisville & Corbin)
South Wind (Chicago-Miami via Louisville, Nashville & Montgomery)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

TUESDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning! Coffee’s hot – pastries fresh - <light> breakfasts ready! So, whatillyahave [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Wednesday is Pike Perspectives Day! Narratives and track diagrams welcome!

(2) Thursday is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with Nick’s Picks!

(3) Friday is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

SUMMARY

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 07:11:27 (145) Monday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 07:15:29 (145) Fallen Flag NP

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 08:29:43 (145) Inclusive Post!

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 08:34:55 (145) reply to trolleyboy

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 08:38:02 (145) Informative Post!

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 09:24:40 (145) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 12:59:19 (145) NOSTALGIA #12 Ad NP

(8) passengerfan Al Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 15:12:00 (145) NP

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 16:59:31 (145) reply to passengerfan, etc.

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 18:03:22 (145) NP, etc.

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 18:48:23 (145) reply to passengerfan, etc.

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 21:16:15 (145)

(13) pwolfe Pete Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 22:14:42 (146) He’s baaaaaaack!

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 22:41:18 (146) Inclusive Post!

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 22:50:51 (146)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Hey Pete's back!!!!!! Horrayyyy!!! It suddenly seems a bit more normal around here then of coarse one see's Boris [alien]

pete Unfortunatly the nuptuals are off. however on the 31st you can regail us with your scary train storuies of jinxed crews and trains while helping boris cut his birthday goulash! [:O][xx(] I have ordered some carpathian delicasies for the event. Mind you you may not wi***o acctually partake in them. I've left Nick the directions that came with them and his Mom's ( Boris's ) goulash recipe. I'm thinking a recipe for disaster [xx(]

Hope you had a wonderfull time on your trip sound like alot of train trips were had that's wonderfull. Pictures to follow next Sunday maybe [?] See you tomorrow.


Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening , I managed to pop back in a bit earlier tonight. I guess since Leon has the night off I'll do a quick inventory and clean up around the place.[sigh] Even Boris is slumbering blissfullyentwined with dolly for the evening.

CM3 Another fine bit of railroadianna [tup] thank you for your continued solid posts of information. Your guess is correct, the Witt cars were transported via flatcar to Regina from Waterloo. CP rail did the shipping though the first hour of the trip would have been under the wires of the Grand River Railway one of CP's two electric lines in southern Ontario.

Actually most new built streetcars and radials would have been shipped via flatcar from their manufacture point to their new homes. CP rail handled all of the Ottawa car Companies deliveries and all of Preston car and Coaches. Cn handled the Cancar deliveries from Montreal.two reasons for shipping this way #1 most of the rail lines in canada were not electrified. #2 alot of thee streetcar systems in the country were odd guage. some narrow or as in the TTC's case it was wider 4'107/8ths"

Our Museum has recieved several of our cars the same way via railway flatbed.Some where in the house I have a shot of MS&C 107 on the way to the museum in 1956.Lost in Mac yard in Toronto. CN was very late getting the car to us it had been routed to the wrong place initially. we did get the car safe and sound ... eventually. [swg]

Ted Nice to hear that you survived the big blow good news indeed,I am of coarse thinking happy thoughts for those who were not so lucky. as to the pictures they arrived today so I'll endeavour to get the first batch post ready for Sunday [tup]
Count me in to at least show up for Boris's ba***hough i don't think that Nick will have enough time to get the proper papers and vacinations to allow us to have Boris's real family along ( I hope ) [xx(]. I'm glad to see the wed layout bit is going to take route, i will add my [2c] to it if not this Wed next. [tup]

Tom Glad you liked the shots of the passenger trains[tup] That line up of Go in Milton was shot on a Sunday ( no Sat sun service on the Milton line ) Nice thing about Guelf jct is that off to the one side is the Go storage on the other side of the mainline is the Ontario Southlands shops and deisel storage as well as their freight yard.One can see tthe transfer trains from CP drop of cars to the OSR and do their pickuops as well. The OSR line in this area is all ex CP serving Guelph and a couple of the smaller surrounding towns.


Controlled fires in wood cars were a thing of fear and loathing.To top it all off the conductor had to keep the fire stocked,sell tickets,collect fares,and give out transfers. While shivering as the coal stoves generally only warmed the front hailf ( if you were luckey of the car ) It got to the point that to keep the back half customers warm the rail companies would spread straw over the wood slate flooring to at least keep feet dry therfore warm. Hows that for a recipe for disater ! Yet the only fires tended to happen in the barns thus destroying valuble cars and equipment.

My take on your HEP question is that the name changed about the same time the cars were rebuilt from their steam heat format to HEP heat and power. Via dumped all the boiler equiped equiopment and locomotives in the early 80's near as I can figure.


A question for you Tom though re the NP nostalgia bit. Hostess/Nurse? Must be a story there. Inquiring trolleyboy's want to know?[swg]

Al what can I say simply awesome is your font of passenger information [bow] . To add my [2c] to the NP disscussion. Would be that Lowey's paint scheme certainly pput the NP passenger trains on the map. Likewise his wounderfull treatment of Clevelands street railway as well. He used his magic to create a to die for Creame and pale green paint job for the Witts and other older nearside type cars in Cleveland.[tup] Perhaps some of you remeber the CSR paint job I refer to [?]

Well folks I think I'm now caught up and up to speed. I'll talk at you all tomorrow.

Rob

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

A pint of John Harvard Harvest Spiced Ale as a tribute to the fine ales of New England please.[tup].

First TED I,m glad that you escaped the worst from Wilma and DAN is on the mend.

The bar has been busy while I,ve been away with Quite a New England flavor. It has taken a fair while to catch up but well worth the effort with some great photos,Fallen Flags and Nostalgia.It is marvellous how after a flag or nostalgia that one or two regulars can add addition info on consists and sometimes personal expriences [tup]

TED and NICK you have answered B.K. on the A.P.T. Really it was ahead of its time and the regulation at the time was, I believe, that it was not allowed to have a H.T. connecting busbar on top of the train( as in the French T.G,V.). This meant that the power car(s) were in the center of the train meaning that the catering etc had to be duplicated. The three trains were really six half sets.It didnt help that the date for the Press trip was the coldest day of the year and the brakes froze on after a stop, they had a field day.( some conventional trains had this problem on that day). For the media then,even more than now, it was ROADS GOOD RAILWAYS BAD. [V].

We were very lucky with the weather in the North East on our visit as they had heavy rain before and the forecast was for more this week they certainly dont need it as the rivers are at capacity. I wi***he best for them up there. We were based in Provedence R.I. and managed a trip to Boston on Amtrak(all the Amtrak trains I saw were running on time). Was this line the old NH line ?.In Boston we rode some Classic subway cars on the GREEN LINE also there was some fine looking electric? locos working for MBTA has anyone more info on these. I suspect CM3 or WEST COAST S may be able to help me.

ROB nice photos and classic juice. That bit on loco #911 was interesting. It is strange how some locos seem to be jinxed, there is a weird but true story about this in theU.K in the 80's. Perhaps it ought to be saved for OCT 31st or your wonderfully titled Story By The Fireplace.

TOM I,m a bit confused, is BORIS,S nuptials on or off will we get the licence will AWK be best man.

Good idea to have Wednesday as Model Railroad day although I havent got a layout myself I appriciate the effort that goes into them and many thanks for sharing through photos and descriptions. A round for all please. PETE.

[siberianmo]

For:passengerfan Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 19:56:33

Looks like we're havin' a two-way conversation - and that's fine!

I read about the "innovativeness" involved with the welding technique in a couple of my books - very interesting and "leading edge" for the times. Now that all of these decades have passed on by - the "proof is in the pudding," so to speak. As you say, those cars are still going strong up in Canada. And I concur with you that the Superliners will not make it near as long ....... What are you aware of these days built to the standards of "back then" [?]

Thanx for all of the info and again, for the support to the bar! [tup]

See ya in the 'morrow!

THE BAR IS CLOSED!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Hello Tom Guess I have time for a quick CR and whatever you're having.

I agree with you about the HEP reference you mentioned and its a shame they don't give Budd their just due considering the cars are 50 years old and still going strong. Those stainless steel cars using the spot welding method just seem to last forever. I don't think yje Superliners will last anywhere near as long.

I don't know of any regularly scheduled trains in the US with dome cars any longer. Unless one counts the Alaska Railroad summer Denali.

I believe that Amtrak still operates the former NP Heritage diners in the NY - Florida trains.
Really have to get back to the books or else.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

For: passengerfan Al Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 18:03:22

You're not alone with hopes of increased activity 'round here. Let's see:

West Coast S Dave has simply disappeared ....
pwolfe Pete is on vacation ...
Trainnut484 Russell is tied up with school ...
earlydiesels Dan is recuperating ...
BudKarr BK has been irregular due to work ..
wrwatkins *** remains somewhat the enigma ...
CFournier Chris [?]
barndad Doug [?]
Gunns Kevin [?]

and Theodorebear Ted has had "Wilma" on his mind; trolleyboy Rob has been relegated to midnight and later Posts due to work schedule; and nickinwestwales Nick [?] So that pretty much is the run down.

Fortunately, between you and coalminer3 CM3 we've had some Monday thru Friday dialogue. The weekends have been difficult lately ........ Okay, 'nuf of that.

I'd like to know where the Heritage dining cars are still being operated and are any domes at all in use [?] Last Amtrak dome I rode in was between St. Louis and Chicago back in the mid-80's. The condition was rather poor insofar as the "glass" was concerned. Would have better luck trying to look through the solid sides of the car than through the "glass." [tdn] But, it was still a treat to sit up there.

Another request is for an explanation of the term "HEP," which I know means head end power, but I'm not sure why anyone needs to know that! A few years ago, VIA Rail stopped referring to their cars as Budd and began using the term "HEP." It was right around the time of their purchase of the "Renaissance" (Euro) cars. Anyway, several of us who travel with VIA Rail rather regularly, began to complain about the change of reference. While I can't claim "victory," VIA Rail dropped the "HEP" reference and now uses "Stainless steel cars." Almost as if they absolutely refuse to recognize the manufacturer of those wonderful cars. Shame on 'em. So the question remains, what's the "big deal" about referring to any car in that manner - "HEP" [?] I'd really like to know.

Appreciate your second visit of the day - and also your offer of a round - again, save your money!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon once again Tom . I sure hope business picks up soon as I have to get back to the books.

Just a little more about the Slumbercoaches on the NCL and later on the Mainstreeter. These cars were very heavy due to the number of sleeping car spaces provided. Travelled once from Billings back to Seattle on the NCL and the first class sleeping car space was full. So was told by the ticket agent that their was Slumbercoach space available and it was much cheaper. Although the room was smaller than a duplex roomette it still had a bed and toilet facilities as well as sink and water. Real compact but the car rode well, and it certainly was reasonable as I recall about 7 or 8 dollars over coach fare. The NP trainlined the Slumbercoach direct;ly beghind the two head end cars on the NCL the first a Water Baggage and the other an RPO Crew Dormitory car. The Slumbercoaches had 24 private single rooms and 8 double rooms for couples traveling together. My one trip on the Mainstreeter was after the first class sleeping cars had been removed and the lone sleeping accomodation was a single Slumbercoach and that served as crew dormitory space as well as for any passengers who wished sleeping space. As I recall the car was never more than half full. I never had a room over the trucks so guess they would have been noisy. This was generally true of any sleeping car the rooms over the trucks were noisier and rode rougher. The secret was to book early as the best rooms were booked first from the center of the car out. I think this was generally true of all roads. The real bargain in sleeping car space was on the GN Western Star as they sold space in their GLACIER series 16-Duplex Roomette 4-Double Bedroom cars in the final years at Slumbercoach rates.
The Budd built dining cars I mentioned earlier that were the last built prior to Amtrak still operate today on Amtrak about the last of the heritage cars still in service on Amtrak.
The water baggage cars were unique to the NP. These cars were equipped with water tanks at the forward end of the car to supply extra water to the diesels steam generators. The reason being just like in steam days the NP had a lot of bad water districts in eastern Montana and western North Dakota so they found this a suitable way of carrying the necessary boiler water to traverse these districts. It saved the railroad the trouble of hauling tank cars of water into these bad areas to supply boiler water for the steam generators.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

passengerfan Al Posted: 24 Oct 2005, 15:12:00

As with Saturday, if you hadn't shown up, I'd close up the place. Appreciate your "company," but save your money - no one's here to enjoy the round!

Those Fallen Flags and NOSTALGIA pieces take time to compile - I'd say about an hour for both. Taking a look at the INDEX of 'em, there's quite a few hours logged .... If this were being done in a business sense, I'd be out of it - business that is! [swg]

Glad that today's submission "did it" for ya. I always liked the herald of the NP, but that's about the extent of it for me. Never traveled that route as an adult. Funny, back in 1959 I was heading out to Seattle from NYC en route Kodiak, Alaska. I never thought for a moment about taking the train. Flew out non-stop on a DC8B prop job with Northwest Orient Airlilnes. What a flight .... story best reserved for the Rendezvous in Toronto!

Given your explanation of the term "annexes," it clarifies the situation - some. Surely couldn't use that term with the VIA Rail configuration in the Park Cars, double or triple (drawing room) configurations. Annex just doesn't "fit" the way they are layed out. Oh well ...... Thanx for trying to EDGE-U-MAH-KATE us! [swg]

Back to the NP, they did it right with the use of four domes in the consist! Now that's something to experience. On one of our cross-Canada trips there were three Skyline domes forward of the Park Car in a 22 car consist. Never experienced that many again on the other trips. Come to think of it, with all of the trips aboard the "Ocean," I can only recall having two Skyline cars on two occasions - those being during the summer months and quite a few years ago. As much as we like to extol the virtues of the domes - more times than not, they are rarely filled to seating capacity on the "Ocean." Even the "Canadian" - before the Rockies - has plenty of seats in 'em. For us, it's the only place to be!

Catch ya later and thanx again for being so supportive of this place! Means a lot. [tup] Have one on me!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Guess I'll start with a CR and a round for the house.
First will try to clear iup the continuing question about annex.
Im postwar Budd Company literature the postwar bathrooms that were in tiny little rooms attached to the Double Bedrooms, Compartments, and Drawing Rooms were referred to as annexes. It actually first apperared with the introduction of the CZ.

You hit a favorite fallen flag today with the Northern Pacific write up. From about age seven to ten we lived on a small hobby farm just east of Auburn and the NP mainline skirted the property in a cut at the rear of the pasture. Certainly stopped anything I was doing to watch the trains go by.

The NORTH COAST LIMITED beginning in 1954 became one of the premier passenger trains in the land. First in July Aygust came the new Vista Dome Coaches and the new Raymond Loewy two tone green paint scheme Two dome coaches were operated in every consist of the NCL. one a Chicago - Seattle car the other a Chicago - Portland car. Unlike other trains that carried more than one dome coach in their consists the NP put a flat top coach between theirs so passengers could better enjoy the passing scenery.
Between September and November 1954 new Vista Dome sleeping cars were added to the NCL again two per consist and a new flat top sleeping car was added between them to separate for better viewing from the domes.

Between July and October 1954 the NP introduced the Lewis & Clark travellers rest cars rebuilt from the older NCL Buffet Coaches.

In December 1957 - January 1948 new Budd built dining cars were added to the NCL the last new dining cars built before Amtrak.

And finally in December 1959 the NCL received Slumbercoaches one per consist. This was the only car in the consist not painted to match the other NCL cars two-Tone Green with white separation stripe. The Slumbercoaches remained in there stainless steel finish.
To the end the NCL was a fime streamliner indeed and the great Big Baked Idaho Potato was famous even if they were grown in Washington State in a NP owned farn outside Pasco Washington.

Will check in later needed an excuse to get away from the books.