"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Mornin' - The end of the week is finally here! [yeah] Coffee's hot, so let's get started ......

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(2) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(3) Sunday is Photo Posting Day! THE BAR IS CLOSED!

(4) Monday is Boris’ Bash and Halloween Party!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 05:43:20 (147) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 05:45:20 (148) Fallen Flag – C&O

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 07:26:22 (148) reply to trolleyboy

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:26:23 (148) Inclusive Post!

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:30:43 (148) Pick-us-up Post!

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 11:57:08 (148) reply to Theodorebear & coalminer3

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 11:58:56 (148) NOSTALGIA #15 – Ad C&O

(7) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 17:41:21 (148) C&O

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 18:49:01 (148) reply to passengerfan

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:50:29 (148)

(10) pwolfe Pete Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:59:39 (148) Inclusive Post!

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 20:38:30 (148) reply to passengerfan & pwolfe

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 22:42:49 (148) Inclusive Post!

(13) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 23:28:55 (148) Classic Juice – Peter Witt

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Okay now for the next installment of ... Classic Juice...
The Peter Witt Story

As previously disscussed . Mr Mitten's nearside car improved the continents ( NA) street railway system,by instituting the PAYE or pay enter way of collecting fares. This improved rider safety by where the cars would stop and improved the street railways bottom lines by #1 getting fares ( in the daysof the conductor walking up an down the side running boards with the "coffee canb" fare box was not only inefficient but many a rider could and would jump on or off woth out paying. And #2 by having a fixed farebox the conductor could conduct there by giving better service to the riders, transfers stop information etc etc.


In 1912 a young man by the name of Peter Witt was elcted to the possition of Traction Commissioner for the Cleveland Railways. He was always seeking ways to improve ridership and ruder satisfaction. The one major drawback of the PAYE cars was that they tended to have very long dwell times at stops. With passengers entering amd exiting the cars via the same doors paying the conductor etc. Some people were still amaging to not pay and the exsessive wait times slowed down the flow of traffic and the shcedules of the transit system.

So he devised a car design which modifed the cars in that the rear doors were moved to the center of the car. Passengers would enter the front move back to the conductors position just in front of the centre doors where he collected the fares. The conductor controlled the center doors which were the exit.

Thus pay as you pass came to be. It sped up the dwell times, and ensured that all fares were collected and transfers meeted out.

Peter Witt supervised the first cars construction at the Cleveland railways Lakeview shops in 1914. The first of these new cars came into service on Dec 1 1914. As built they had longitudinal seats in the front section , followed by cross seats in the rear. Thes cars were also built as single ended controls with two man crew operator and conductor. As more and more of these cars enterd service officials from the other street railway systems came to look at them and quickly began producing simialr cars for their own systems. These cars came to be known as "Witt" cars on the major systems of North America. In Cleveland they were known simply as the "Car Riders Car "

Many street railways built there own cars to this design and Brill , Can Car Ottawa car Company , Preston Car and Coach, Kuhlman and others began producing this type of car under license. Peter Witt recieved a royalty of $10 per car built outside of the Cleveland shops.

Thes cars served all the Major and some of the minor systems. Including Detroit ,Chicago,Kansas City,Providense, Toronto ( 375 cars 75 trailers ),Baltimore,Cleveland, Buffalo , Rochester NY ,Toledo,Birmingham,Kitchener waterloo (ex Cleveland Cars) Regina ( EX KW cars ! ),aand likley several others.

Witts came in two sizes. The Large or standard Witt were 53'0" long 8'5" wide and 12' tall ( rail to trolleyboards ) these cars were lower geared and had strait pipping for trailer hauling. They could and did run solo as well. Few street railways used the trailer cars. The small Witt was 47'0" same height and width but were geared for higher speeds. Single service cars( hauled no trailers) used for rush hour and lighter use lines. From what I can gather Toronto was the only company to have the two types of Witts ( as an aside our museum has 4 toronto witt's two large and two small )

The Witt cars ran for years in Cleveland from 1914 to the early 50's in Toronto from 1921 to 1966. Similar life spans were enjoyed else where. Not untill the PCC car came about in 1936 was there such a universal streetcar design. The PCC continued the Pay as you pass method of fair collecting which is still in use today. Most Witts were converted to single man operations in the 30's and 40's with the farebox moubted bus style beside the operator. Rear tredle doors were installed as well as operator control of the rear doors once they were converted to single crew. As with Birney safety cars the tredles or operator center or front door controls could not be operated while the car was moving. Deadman switch controllers were also part of the safety package as well.

So there you have it the Peter Witt, the car and the man. If you got to my railimages account you can see several pictures of our museums Peter witt's. Large witt 2424 ( lovingly refered to as Bertha or the beer car ) and small Witt's 2786 and 2894.

Rob

[trolleyboy]

Good evening folks. Leon I'll grab a CR and some left over fish,n,chips. hmmmm no Nick's pics[:(]


Tom Another fine fallen flag sir. Though I agree with Ted when I hear about the C&O the first thing I think about is loooong strings of grubby coal hoppers. Funny how one's mind pigeon holes things like that. I feel that I'm becomming a bit of a broken record but the C&O paid call to southern ontario with frieght trains as well. Most came via the Pere marquette routes in and anround Sarnia and St thomas. CSX ( I won't use the impolite term I have for them ) still serves the Petro chemical plants in and around Sarnia.


I too ahd a whole lot of old brass track lying about. I ended up donating it to a local cub scout group who were building a layout ( railroader badge ) Perhaps you could find a similar home for yours. I suppose that ebay could be an option too,one see's a fair bit of it for sale there. Just a thought. I'm like you though you want to see things like that go to a good home. [tup]

I'm not sure that an armadillo is a best first pet for Boris. Perhaps a porcupine would be a better choice, just as inedible and having a similar personality. Mind you Boris's inflateable freinds may not appreciate one though.[:O][xx(]

Ted A removable bridge sounds like a good idea there[tup] Wouldn't want your passengers swimming accross the void [swg][swg]

The wabash in the peninsula was strictly a run a accross from Buffalo and transfer cars with CN. They would fuel and turn steam locomotives in Fort Erie at the CNR facilities they evn stored a couple of Mikes there. The only real joint ownership they had came after the Mergers it was a CN / NS deal.


Al [bow] Wow wonderfull information sir [tup]

[b] CM3 i thought that you were going to rupture something the way you were bouncing from RR to RR. Great stuff however[tup] Amazing the level of service the Santa Fe gave their passengers. Imagine that kind of service today. This is an example of why the classic railways remain ever loved even after they merge out of existance.

[b] Pete Those British Pullmans sounded like grand trains in their day.[tup] Good example of how a well engineered and designed railway ( electric or otherwise ) can truly compete with commersial shorthaul flights and dirty highway systems. One wonders why we do what we do here. [sigh] Thamks for the thumbs up on the trolley info watch my next post . I'll try to show the later improvements with the Peter Witt cars made to the idea put forth by Mitten, with the Nearside cars.

That catches me up for now be back shortly.

Rob

[siberianmo]

Good Evenin’ Gents!

A couple of acknowledgements are in order:

passengerfan Al
Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:50:29

Thanx Al for that run down on the P/S passenger cars. Very impressive and educational. Also, now that you’ve explained it, I do recall experiencing one of those twin unit diners; can’t pin it down to a particular road, but I do remember the full length diner, with no kitchen facilities.

Are you aware of any of those P/S cars that are still in operation with Amtrak or other roads [?]

Doesn’t it just boggle the mind to think that “once upon a time” this country had four major passenger car manufacturers and “poof” then there were NONE! [?]

I’ll take one of those rounds – thank you very much! Boris ring it! [swg] Just gets to me when I think about how many careers, professions and skilled jobs went down the tubes with the demise of the American passenger railroads. [tdn]

I’m sure you meant to say, “As great as the Budd cars ARE …..” given they are still goin’ strong north of the 49th! [tup]

pwolfe Pete
Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 19:59:39

Check out this URL for the “cooker” info: [swg]
http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/news/fireless.html

I must ask, why was this asked of moi [?]

Appreciate the info on the Pullmans in Great Britain; I had no clue ….

Always happy to hear that the Fallen Flags are “flickin’ some switches” out there. That’s the point, after all ……. The idea behind them was to stimulate interest in our thread and conversation amongst those of us who give a Rat’s Patoot. [tup]

Yes, we really should get movin’ on that KCity trip – unfortunately as the daylight wanes into winter’s long nights, much of the return leg will be rather dark. Come to think of it, this comin’ Saturday is the beginning of Standard Time – move the clock BACK one hour. Ugh, the march toward the shortest day of the year continues. [tdn]

My guess is this will pretty much “do it” for me this night, as Leon the Night Man should be ambling in any time now.

Catch ya in the ‘morrow …….. [zzz]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all.

A pint of the usual and some of[C=:-)]NICK'S Fish and Chips for later please.I had some at YE OLDE ENGLISH FISH AND CHIP SHOPPE in a town near Providence very nice but there were no mushy peas.

Thanks TOM for the links on the WABASH and DAN for the extra info.

Another great flag and additional info by PASSENGERFAN AL CM3 andTED The Chessie kitten logo must surely be one of the best ever used by a railway company.

How is it that the ads in those days can paint a far better picture than the visual ones on T.V. today [%-)][sigh].

TOM what is a COOKER loco[?].

ROB Looking forward to more info on the streetcars. The trams as we called them had all gone in the U.K. around my area so I know little about them. Its great that Classic Trains features the good photos of them.

TED A little more info on the JONES TRAIN. It will run on a 130 foot circle of track in K.C . Union Station on Wednesdays to Sundays NOV 16 to JAN15. It did not say what the original power was but they say it will now have a battery-powered golf-cart motor.
Perhaps TOM and I can go over when it is running and take some photos.

With the British PULLMANS I wonder if you could give me a hand NICK[?][tup]

One of the most well known, almost legendary ones was the BRIGHTON BELLE. It ran from 1930's until 1973. It was formed of 5-car 750 volt third rail electric multiple units often coupled in pairs the livery was the Pullman Umber and cream, with the Pullman crest on the front of the units. In its final years they suffered the indignity of being painted in B.R. blue and white with full yellow ends [V]. These trains were very popular with the acting community and famous for the kippers served at breakfast .

Some of the cars run in the V.S.O.E. all classic Pullman train which runs now.
The Belle was scheduled to run Brighton to London in 58 minutes for the 50 miles.
As a footnote last month a new record was set up with the new class 377 E.M.U.s of
36 minutes 56.5 seconds for the 50.5 miles. on a specially cleared line.

In the 50;s on Briti***.V. there was sometimes a gap in programmes, one of the short films shown was London to Brighton in 4 minutes, filmed in the 30,s or 40's from the cab of a E.M.U. with plenty of steam about.

Another pint please TOM and [dinner] PETE>

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom Time for a CR and a round for the house. Tom you were absolutely right about Bombardier buying out P/S for the second Superliner order.

As great as the Budd cars were Pullman Standard constructed over twice as many lightweight streamlined cars.
The Twin unit dining cars built for the C&O had one unit that was all Dining Car with table seating only and the other car featured the Kitchen and Crew Dormitory space.

And you asked for car types well her goes.
9 Baggage cars 3 built and delivered to D&RGW
8-RPO car none built
13 Baggage 30' RPO 3 built for D&RGW
13 Baggage 32 Seat Coaches 1-built for C&O two finished as Baggage Crew Dormitory for D&RGW
19 Coach Telephone Lunch Counter cars none built
80 52-seat Coaches 67 built 59 to C&O 8 to D&RGW
14-Sets Dormitory Kitchen & Dining Room Cars Twin Units eight built for C&O but never entered C&O service 2 sets went to IC for Panama Limited Two sets went to ACL and the other four went to NYC.
10 Single unit dining cars 2 built for D&RGW
4 Parlor Cars delivered to C&O
4 Lunch Counter Tavern Lounge Cars 1 to C&O three to D&RGW
75 10-Roomette 6-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars All were built 5 direct to IC 10 to B&O 4 to D&RGW 56 to C&O
5 11-Double Bedroom Sleeping Cars all built and delivered to C&O.
7 Sleeper Buffet Lounge Observations 8 actually built and delivered to C&O with four going to the B&O
2 Round end Sleeper Buffet Lounge Observations none built
8 Sleeper Lounge Observations none built
4 tavern Lounge Observation none built.

Hope this answers some of your questions. By the way forgot to mention that AC&F was third in lightweight streamlined car construction and St. Louis Car was fourth. Milwaukee Road constructed more lightweight streamlined cars for their own use than St. Louis Car constructed for the few railroads that ordered cars from them. The PRR also produced a large number of their own cars. And several other roads did the same including Canadian Pacific.
Ta Ta For Now.

[siberianmo]

Hi Al

Appreciate the expanded info on the C&O but even moreso on the Post itself. Nearly 6 hours elapsed between my NOSTALGIA piece and your comments. That's far too long for the daytime hours 'round here ... what to do, what to do! [?] [%-)][%-)][%-)]

Tell us more about those twin unit dining cars. I've never heard of 'em .... Also, hour mention of the 290 car order from Pullman-Standard makes me wonder what types of passenger cars were they [?] Most of us think Budd had the market "cornered" for the manufacture of passenger cars, but as you alluded to, P/S was in the game for a long time as well.

Do you happen to know how Bombardier got in the act for the manufacture of Superliners [?] Did they buy out P/S [?]

Thanx for the round! Looks like pwolfe Pete is browsing 'round, so he'll appreciate a cold one!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.
Thanks for the fine tribute to the C&O and their fine passenger trains.
No railroad had such a leader of vision as the C&O following WW II. For it was Robert R. Young who brought more innovative streamlined passenger equipment to the railroad scene than any other RR. First their was the stillborn CHESSIE trains that never entered service from Budd complete with their massive turbine locomotives . All of the 46 cars buit for the CHESSIE all but 4 were sold to other railroads and many of those cars went to Amtrak.

Then the C&O ordered 290 cars from P/S that were some of the finest to grace the rails. Unfortunately the C&O never needed anything like that many cars for the passenger services they operated.. Many of the cars from the order were cancelled others were built and sent direct to other roads and and the C&O took delivery of 151. Many of these were later sold to other roads as well. all eight of the twin unit dining cars were delivered to the C&O but sold to the IC NYC and ACL without ever operating on the C&O. The D&RGW operated 22 of the planned C&O cars that were being built for the C&O but were diverted while under construction to the Colorado road. The cars the C&O kept did not inclue any head end cars and when one watched any of the otherwise streamlijned trains pass I for one always wondered why the heavyweight head end cars in an otherwise beautiful streamlined consist. A surprising number of the P/S cars ended up in Amtrak ownership. The one problem with the C&O cars was with the fluted stainless steel panels below the windows of the new cars. They coroded the corten steel behind from washing and the weather. SP had the same problem with their similarly built P/S cars and repalced the Corten steel sides with stainless steel a costly undertaking. C&O instead chose to discard the fluted stainless panels and replace the Corten steel below and simply painted the finished car sides. Pullman Standard never learned how to build Stainless steel cars until they built the Superliners. They were to proud to pay Budd a royalty on the patented shot weld process.
Ta Ta for now back to the books.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #15

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the C&O from a 1940 advertisement found in one of my scrap books.


YOU’LL WISH YOU COULD LOOK both ways AT ONCE!

EXPERIENCED TRAVELERS call it “The most beautiful train trip in the East,” this mountain-and-canyon route of Chesapeake and Ohio Lines. On this magnificent journey you look out and down upon waves of mountains – the majestic Alleghanies, the mysteriously tinted Blue Ridge . . . upon valleys stretching like bright carpets to the far, purple hills. The scene changes – and you look up the towering green walls of the New River Gorge as you roll smoothly through the widest and deepest canyon this side of the Rockies. Yes, when you watch this panorama of thrilling beauty from your train windows, you’ll wish you could look both ways at once!

On your next trip east or west GO CHESAPEAKE AND OHIO . . . and enjoy glorious mountain country!

You’ll travel in complete comfort, on the smoothest of roadbeds, in cool, clean air-conditioned cars that invite you to relax by day and Sleep Like a Kitten at night . . . When you travel west or east, plan to ride through The Chessie Corridor on these famous trains- THE GEORGE WASHINGTON – THE SPORTSMAN – THE F. F. V.

Sleep like a Kitten

THE CHESSIE CORRIDOR, The Scenic Route of the East
A NEW BOOK on Chessies Travel Packages will help you plan interesting, economic trips. Write for free copy to Chesapeake and Ohio Travel Services, 829 East Main St., Richmond, Va.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . George Washington’s Railroad . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
CHESAPEAKE and OHIO Lines
Original Predecessor Company Founded by George Washington in 1785

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Nearin’ mid-day and a bit quiet ‘round here since our two early mornin’ visitors. Technically one was a “staffer,” but with nothing to do in that area, his presence was strictly as a patron this fine day.

Spent a bit of the mornin’ a competitor’s place for breakfast with a friend of mine. Noticed that gasoline was at $2.35 (rounded) – that’s 13 cents down from yesterday. Go figure, as the kids would say!

Okay – time for some acknowledgements for Theodorebear Ted & coalminer3 CM3:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:26:23

Another Inclusive Post! which is appreciated and encouraged ‘round here. [tup]

As one who never had the funds to “dabble in the market,” the rise and fall of stocks, railroad or others, never made the impact on me that it would have had I been an investor. What bothered me greatly was when those railroads went under. If you’ve ever watched a ship sink, then you may understand what I’m talkin’ ‘bout. Once she goes under and the last of the waves turn to ripples, it’s almost as if she was never there …….

Presents for Boris [?] Well, since I have been the one who has provided him with his clothing, meals and place to sleep – a few suggestions are in order: New boondockers (he requires two LEFT w/steel toes in size 17.5 ultra-wide US); new bedding that is “shred proof,” and perhaps a 50 lb sack of “Alpo,” his favorite before sleep snack. Now, he also has a fascination with flashlights, so something rather sturdy and long lasting in terms of battery power would be nice. The Mentor Village Constabulary would appreciate any help, given that every time one of their officers shows up, the first thing that “goes” is the flashlight, followed by screams originating from the “powder” room. Oh, he’s such a “kidder!” [}:)][:-,] Finally, he has been talkin’ ‘bout a “pet” for some time, something that he would have a difficult time digesting. I’ve been thinkin’ of perhaps an Armadillo. There’s a place out back for it ……. [swg]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 27 Oct 2005, 08:30:43

Looks as if we’ve got you all over the board this mornin’ – talk of C&O, Wabash, N&W, NP and Santa Fe in connection with Fred Harvey. Better be careful or you’ll be havin’ to hit the reset button for the overload that is sure to come! [swg]

As is the case more times than not ‘round here, I learn somethin’ quite new almost every day. I never knew of those long distance trains in the U.S. stopping off at the Santa Fe Dining stations in order to provide meal service for the traveling folks. Always figured it was a “given” that they’d dine aboard the train. Interesting stuff ….. thanx! [tup]

In my research for the C&O, I came across a great photo in a magazine ad of the New River Gorge taken from Hawks, Nest, WV. What a shot and what a beautiful scene it is. So if my short term memory is still functioning, the spans are the ones people jump from on their annual practice of madness [?] Crazy. Unfortunately, the quality of the photo is such that any attempt to copy it for Posting would be a waste of time. Pity.

Anyway, back to that ad text, it is indeed something to appreciate. You are correct, Sir, they don’t write ‘em like that anymore.

Appreciate the round and quarters for the Wurltizer! [tup][tup]

By the by, would you send me an Email[?] I’d like to drop a few thoughts your way … thanx!

Okay guys, next up is the NOSTALGIA piece followed by about a 4 hour absence from Posting by the barkeep. Oh, I’ll still be servin’, but the rest is up to y’all! [swg]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning All: Coffee, please, round for the house and some $for the jukebox.

Now we have C&O? Excellent. Lots of stories there in the notebooks, too. You guys are making me go back and start putting some material together.

Re the N&W-Wabash combination. Locals here said that N&W stood for "Nickel Plate and Wabash." The Wabash had some most interesting looking cabs with a "sort of" streamline cupola. They appeared in Bluefield every so often. I always thought the "Follow the Flag" logo was one of the better ones out there. By the way, issue 133 of Railroad History was all Wabash with an excellent locomotive roster. Now let's loop back to the NP. The title of the book I mentioned is Dining Car Line to the Pacific: An Illustrated History of the NP Railway's Famously Good Food. I do not know if it is still in print.

Speaking of dining in the west, here's a wonderfully florid piece of ad copy re Fred Harvey service on the Santa Fe. As best as I can tell it is from about 1930. They just don't write 'em like this anymore. The train nos. and names alone are worth the reading.

Santa Fe/Fred Harvey Railway Meal Service - It Stands Alone

The Santa Fe Dining Station Service, managed by Fred Harvey, is a distinctive feature of this Railroad.

Conceived with high ideals and proceeding consistently upon the principle that nothing but the best is satisfactory, it is an examples of a complete unit developed with rare genius by a master caterer working for superiority, It has been almost fifty years in the building.

Convinced of the value of an outstanding service of this character, the Santa Fe early provided appropriate locations for its dining-stations, affording sufficient frequency to meet varying schedules and emergencies, and determined to feature such stations in the character if its improvements and the standard of its service.

Each year refinements have been introduced and important improvements effected until today, in consequence of wise foresight and the pursuit of broad liberal policies, the Santa Fe Dining Station System has a achieved a reputation for excellence and efficiency in providing for the wants of the overland traveler which has become international and without a parallel in American railroading.

Trains 9 and 2 – the Navajo – Nos. 1 and 10 – The Scout – Nos. 21 and 22 – The Missionary – and No. 8 – the Hopi are served at dining-stations west of Kansas City. These dining-stations are located about 125 miles apart and ample time is allowed for meals – the average stop being about thirty minutes. The dollar table d’hote meals have no equal the world over. East of Kansas City meals for these trains are served in dining cars.

For those desiring a light repast, there are lunch room with a la carte service, operated in connection with the dining-rooms, serving same quality of food.

Trains 3 and 4, the California Limiteds, and Nos. 23 and 24, the Grand Canyon Limiteds, carry a dining-car through between Chicago and Los Angeles. Frequently these trains are stopped at dining-stations for the evening meal, offering patrons choice of dining either aboard the train or at one of our artistic station-hotels – a unique feature.

Trains Nos. 19 and 20 – The Chief – carry a dining-car through between Chicago and Los Angeles.

1930 – Santa Fe ad copy.

work safe

[Anonymous]

Happy Thursday morning everyone. Tom, I think a cuppa strong Joe and a Cinnamon Roll should "put out the fire" this beautiful Morn. Rob, I too couldn't believe the "upside down" frames.[:O] The Wal-Mart employees at the Photo Center seemed very young and inexperienced. If I returned the discs for correction, who knows what may have been the result?[:(!] Your plans for the lower level make a lot of sense Rob. I'm thinking of adding a removable span across "no man's land" (Misourri River) to accomodate a "El" line to Kcity, Kansas. Such a bridge did exist in the days of yore.

Ah yes, the C & O! WOW, was I upset when three B & O stocks went for two C & O shares.[V] Then, the crowning "insult to injury" was the new C.S.X. moniker. How could the oldest and highly revered Road in the U.S. fall to such an ingnomious state? My only impression of the C & O were the endless hopper loads of coal snaking through the hills and mountains of the Southeast.[zzz] However, if anyone cares to glance at the C. & O steam roster; you just gotta say, EGADS! [aside] My cat Minnie is a twin to the Chessie Kitty logo. She even has her own pillow as per the ads. Another fine Posting Tom, thanks.[tup] The Budd memorabilia is "out-a-sight" too.

[C=:-)] Nick, great to see you after the gruelling business of recording and editing for a "Master." I always dreaded our recording sessions when they came up.[V] Its tedious, nervous work getting a 20 or 80 piece band with vocals (chorus/soloists) in perfect "sync." BTW, "analog" is "where its' at."[2c] [#offtopic]Hit that "ding dong" Boris, I'm buying. I guess you know by now that your assistant celebrates his [bday] Monday (Oct 31). Perhaps you could find an appropriate entree in his honor?[alien] Tornadoes of Carpathian Yak road apples flambe per chance?[xx(]

Hey earlydiesels, you "read my mind" with your comments on the Alcos and a preference for "narrative" type dialogue. You just can't beat a good R.R. yarn over a "Hot Buttered Rum" on a cold blustery evening by the fire place. All Members are encouraged to summons up a "colorful" tale at the Halloween Bash, or anytime else for that matter.[^]

Passengerfan and CM3, as always, you two add a world of helpful data and 3-D mental imagery respectively.[tup] [tup] [tup] I had no idea the Wabash had that many "firsts" to its' credit. Rob, I'm still trying to untangle the interaction with the Wabash- -Canadian "connection," PHEW! Seems the more I know; the more I don't know...HUH? Okay, its that time again.[banghead] I must get more done on the garage side of model R.R.ing. Please plan on dropping in Halloween for a good time watching Boris unwrap savage his presents open, if nothing else.[:O] Happy rails all.

[siberianmo]

Mornin' All,

I see there's just one night owl to respond to this fine day. Gonna be close to 60 (F) in these parts; blue skies, white "puffy" clouds - nice all 'round. Gas in holding at $.245 (rounded) - baseball is OVER - congrats to the White Sox! [tup] And for Astro's fans - WE know how it feels to drop 4 straight in the World Series! Ain't good. [tdn]

Now to the acknowldgement:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 23:10:19

Good choice to go with 22" radius track when there's any choice at all. Speaking of track, when I began my HO interests over again, I really started with a fresh approach. All of my brass track is sitting in boxes - and I'm talkin' 'bout hundreds of track sections of "snap" track and flexible stuff as well, along with over 30 turnouts (remote). The Can-Am is all nickel silver and I'm not at all displeased with the change. There is a veritible treasure trove of "stuff" - bumpers - controllers - rail joiners - switch machines, etc. I honestly don't know why I'm keepin' any of it ......... If I knew someone with the "need," I'd more than likely give it away - but it would have to be more than someone looking for something for nothing, if you follow my drift.

Nice elaboration on the Wabash, NS, etc. It's amazin' just how much info each of us has to contribute to these discussions! [tup] And by the by - nice inclusive Post - as always.

In keeping with my "policy," I'll check back in about 4 hours or so to see if we've had any submissions ........

SOMETHING TO KEEP IN MIND: By now you all know that first thing in the morning you should expect to see the SUMMARY followed by the Fallen Flag for the day, and then my "acknowledgements" of the late night Posts. (The latter may or may not be Posted right away ....) So, when you log on and do NOT see these daily Posts of mine - you are not getting the most current Forum info available. Try the reload or go to the "Active Topics" selection (red bar at the top) and select "last 12 hours." It's worth a try IF you want to see the latest "stuff" ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Chesapeake & Ohio (C&O)

Headquarters: Richmond, VA

Mileage in 1950:

5,343 (including ferries)

Locomotives in 1963:

Steam: 3 (fireless “cookers”)
Diesel: 1,053

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 92,992
Passenger cars: 324

Principal routes in 1950:

Chicago-Cincinnati, OH-Ashland, KY-Staunton, VA-Newport News, VA
Gordonsville, VA-Washington, DC
Clifton Forge-Richmond VA
Ashland-Louisville, KY
Limeville (Ashland)-Columbus, OH-Toledo, OH
Columbus-Pomeroy, OH
Catlettsburg (Ashland)-Elkhorn City, KY
Ronceverte-Durbin & Bartow, WV
Chicago-Grand Rapids, MI-Detroit, MI-St. Thomas, ON-Buffalo & Niagra Falls, NY
Grand Rapids-Petoskey & Bay View, MI
Erieau, ON-Ludington, MI
Ludington-Milwaukee & Manitowoc & Kewaunee, WI (ferry routes to each from Ludington)
Toledo-Bay City, MI
Port Huron-Bay City-Elmdale, MI
Holland-Muskegon-Hart, MI

Passenger trains of note:

George Washington (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
F.F.V. (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Louisville)
Sportsman (Washington & Newport News-Cincinnati & Detroit)
Pere Marquettes (Detroit-Grand Rapids; Chicago-Grand Rapids & Muskegon; Detroit-Saginaw, MI)
Resort Special (Chicago-Petoskey; later, Washington-White Sulphur Springs, WV)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

THURSDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Ah, Thursday is here and we’re a day away from the end of the week! What better time than to settle in for a “pick me up” of freshly brewed coffee, some pastries from The Mentor Village Bakery and perhaps one of our featured <light> breakfasts! [yeah]

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Fish ‘n Chips Nite along with Nick’s Picks!

(2) Friday is Pizza Nite as well as Steak ‘n Fries Nite!

(3) Saturday is ENCORE Day!

(4) Sunday is Photo Posting Day!

(5) Monday is Boris’ Bash and Halloween Party!

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 20005, 06:15:36 147 Wednesday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 06:21:35 (147) Fallen Flag – Wabash

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:00:00 (147) reply to pwolfe Pete & trolleyboy, etc.

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:46:55 (147) Inclusive Post – plus!

(5) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:04 (147) Quickie!

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:49 (147) Daylight Inclusive Post!!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 12:25:01 (147) reply to coalminer3 – Theodorebear – trolleyboy, etc.

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 12:27:16 (147) [navy]NOSTALGIA #14 Budd & Wabash

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 15:54:34 (147) Inclusive Post!

(10) passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 16:06:26 (147)

(11) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:12:03 (147) Inclusive Post!

(12) pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:46:45 (147)

(13) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 18:59:08 (147)

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:06:48 (147) reply to Theodorebear – passengerfan – pwolfe, etc.

(15) nickinwestwales Nick Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:49:32 (147) He’s baaaaaaack – again!

(16) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 19:53:19 (147) He’s baaaaaaack – again!

(17) siberianmo Tom Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 21:37:52 (147) reply to nickinwestwales & earlydiesels

(18) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 23:10:19 (147) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. I'll have a nice guiness while I catch up on the rest of the days activity. I figured that I'd help you out a bit as it looks like the girls from oommpah land are ebgaged in an arm wrestling contest with both the CN and CP track gangs.[:0][B)] I see that Boris is no where to be found as well.[;)] I'm glad to see that you have decided to use the plastic cutlery and dishes.[^] won't be as expensive as the last time.[tup][B)]


Tom True to form I had to make a late night appearance, I have a rep to maintain afterall. I will try to make the occational daylight appearance as well as my time permits.

As to my layout It will be 22' radius as much as possible likely a couple of the places that are tight will have to be 18. the street railway equipment can actually take 9" and 12" but I 'm trying not to do that even though it is prototypical. I'm also trying to avoid having the mainline being point to point,I do like seeing things move perpetually when I'm in the mood.[:p]

It would indeed allow for darwins theory to be proven out on society if the stret cars were still built as in the "daze" of old[xx(].

The NS's involvement in the wabash is a bit convoluted. Wabash was taken over by the Norfolk and Western then of coarse was absobed in the southern NW merger. At one point CN / NS had a joint intermodal terminal in Dain City ( now a suburb of Thorold ON ) this line used an old NS&T swing bridge over the original part of the welland canal. The bridge is still there but it is permanently in place over the water as the 1970 re alignment of part of the canal by passes this piece of the original ditch. Trillium rail the local shortline which switches welland thorald and St Catharines and Port Colbourne ( The old frieght district of NS&T and then CN ) now uses the dain city yard and bridge. The joint CN / NS intermodal yard is noe in the old wabash frontier yard in Buffalo.


Ted Thanks for the thumbs up on the layout progress. The two raised sections will have a trolley line running over the joint trolley/ frieght trackage. The lower section will be filled with streets street tackage and commercial buildings. It's a slow work in progress but then I'm not in any race to get it finished. Question for you though. I was perusing your one disc and noticed that half the pictures were upside down. Not a big deal as the software on the dics will let me flip them right side up. Odd though.

You are right about the witt's. You entered the front and made your waay back, the condusctor had a stand mid car from which he collected fare's. You also exitied only via the centre doors. More on this in my next classic juice post[tup][:D]


Pete Nice info on the A class locomotives. Alway's nice to get info on classic steam.[^] You were not seeing things in those old trolley pictures that you had seen. On the nearsides and their clones the front doors would be marked entrance and exit when the cars were in PAYE set up. The rear doors if presant would haave been marked exit only. The lettering on most systems would have been typed out vertically beside the doors in most cases. On later Peter Witt type cars and on PCC cars the fromt doors would be marked entrance or entrance only and the centre doors would be marked exit only. I know that this is likely clear as mud but I will explain fully in the next couple of days.

nick Glad you made it back mate. I had this horrible feeling that I would have to cook thursday night. In thast case the pics board would have been maccaroini and cheese and hamburgers along with the fish and chips. Also I do have trouble containing your cohort [:(!][alien]when he's in the kitchen and your not around.


Well folks I will catch up, with everyone tomorrow evening.

Rob

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

What is that [?] Some conversation comin' in from a couple of members of The Legion of the Lost! [?] [swg]

Well one guy gets dispensation the other doesn't! Good to see ya, Nick and Dan. Your Posts came in at a good time, for I was thinking of closing 'er up a bit early. Not so - thanx! [tup]

Nick m'boy, methinks I'm gonna have to make a trip across that pond if for no other reason than to find out just what it IS they are putting into your water! [swg] Some guys are havin' a hulluva lot more fun than others. Ah, so many places to frequent and so little time .......

Dan All I can tell you is that it takes time - lots of it - to get the body back into the condition it was prior to this bout of pneumonia. Being impacted for 2 months is a long time, no doubt and it's nothing to take lightly. Frustrating beyond belief - but think of the alternatives! Glad you're able to keep up with us and we'll be here once you're back to full speed. [tup][tup]

Take another look (up on this page} to the WABASH [purple]Fallen Flag[/p[urple] and I think you'll find something of interest! [swg]

Byh the by, what's the ediition of that Classic Trains article on the 1953 Boy Scout Jamboree [?]

Nick We'll be lookin' for something special on that Nick's Picks Menu Board tomorrow night! [C=:-)]

Okay Leon the Night Man has the bar, as I retreat to watch the end of a really tight baseball game .......

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I'll take a cold glass of H20 with lemon, please Tom. I am still recovering and everything I've read has stated the longer a person has pneumonia, the longer it takes to recover. I've been sick about 8 weeks now so hopefully the problem has about run its course! Realizing water doesn't pay the bills, be patient and I'll soon be sipping stronger stuff.
Tom, I have found the Classic Trains article about the Boy Scout Jamboree. The article concerns the 1950 gettogether so that predates your trip. Good writing and pix, though.
Although our numbers are dropping, the quality of posts continues to improve. Informative and entertaining but my favorites are the 1st person narritives--the "your are there" kind. As a kid growing up in the 70s, I saw plenty of places that once were beehives of activity in the glory days, but by the time I came along, I just had to use my imagination.
Tom, I seem to remember a part in the song Wabash Cannonball about hoboes riding the rods and the brake beams. Did I miss it? Liked the Fallen Flags segment about this somewhat local road with the romantic name. I've had a copy of the latest book on the Wabash all year that I'm supposed to read and write about for the Midland's newsletter. Can't get interested in it as it is very dry.
Don't know much about the L&N except what I've read. They did but some Frisco diesels secondhand. A really good Alco customer. As a Alco nut, I'd loved to have heard a brace of RS3s work a heavy train uphill. Those 244s sound like a Harley on steroids!Gotta love that turbo lag, too. That's what provides all the smoke when an Alco is notched up.

[nickinwestwales]

Well good evening fellow tipplers-[4:-)]TOM-a round for the gentlemen,if you please-yourself included obviously-Apologies to all for recent absence,combination of daughters half-term,family trauma,3 hours of band recordings to edit..( S*d the lot of them--its back to 4-track analog for me ) and a kind of flat spot generally ( run out of relevant things to say and find it difficult to respond to that of which I have no knowledge) have caused something of a lull in foreign correspondance-Fear not,once I have this small seaonal adjustment ( Oh bugger,its bloody winter AGAIN ) under control,normal relations will resume..............................Right,just going back to catch up on "[4:-)]`s log" for the last week,see you all for Fish & Chip night tomorrow,---beam me up Scotty,regards to all,nick[C=:-)]...............Tom-E-Mail spotted,will read in morning when sober,--[tup]

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Looks like this day has turned out far better than yesterday. Finally have some afternoon activity ….. [tup]

Acknowledgements for Theodorebear Ted – passengerfan Al – pwolfe Pete:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 15:54:34 and 18:59:08

Good to see your return to the bar. The conversations have been rather stimulating, albeit from one or two, regarding the Fallen Flag series. We may be an “Oasis,” but the watering hole at times appears to be runnin’ low! [swg]

Appears that the Monday festivities have generated some interest as well. Should be a good time ….. [tup]

passengerfan Al Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 16:06:26

As always, thanx for the round! Appreciate the acknowledgement of the Fallen Flag Wabash, including the associated NOSTALGIA piece. I got a kick out of putting it together, for it was an “educational” thing for me, as several have been.

The Blue Bird was quite the opulent train for such a relatively short run from St. Louis to Chicago. Four domes, plus …. Must’ve been quite the train. Your added information, always lends a great deal of insight to the dialogue. [tup]

pwolfe Pete Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 17:12:03 and 17:46:45

Check out these URL’s for some info on the origin of the name, “Wabash”:

Starts with the river:
http://www.in.gov/wrhcc/newsletter/news2001.html

Scroll down to railroad:
http://tacnet.missouri.org/~mgood/history/encycmorr.html#WAB

As mentioned yesterday (I think) there are vestiges of “old” all ‘round these parts, whether they be girder bridges, tunnel portals, stations, etc. Look closely, and just about all of the major road heralds can still be found. It’s both a sad and glad thing, if you follow me on this.

That A4 must have been some machine. Average of 100 mph is something else – then setting the record at 112 in those times really puts things in a perspective that kind of boggles the mind. We still are stuck on 79 mph in the U.S. for top speeds. Oh [yeah] there are places where that is the exception rather than the rule, but for the most part it’s “top” speed. Of course there are valid reasons, but when one thinks about the reality of the right-of-way being there long before development, well there’s an unintended consequence for ya! North American trains used to hit 100 mph regularly – but that was then and things have surely changed. Today, the high speed debate centers on new rights-of-way – avoidance of grade crossings, etc. An engineering nightmare, not to mention costs.

Next time you are in KCity, perhaps you’ll have the time to visit Crown Center. (It’s connected with Union Station these days by an enclosed above the street walkway.) Anyway, there’s a great model train store located up on the 3rd level of the shopping mall. The name is “Halls Station” and is the only train store in the Center. Anyway, this place has a operating layouts for: LGB (rather large); Marklin, and Lionel. Additionally, there’s all kinds of “pricey” stuff on the shelves and in the display cases. Your mention of those toy trains brought this to mind …….

Okay, Gents, time to watch what may be the final game of the World Series. Haven’t heard a “peep” out of barndad Doug these days (daze) but I thought for sure he’d at least be keepin’ us entertained about HIS White Sox! Oh well …….

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[Anonymous]

Its late for me but I needed to make a correction and apology to Rob. Tom, just a draft if you please. I misunderstood the Post mentioning pix of a layout. I wondered how my shots could've been altered so quickly. My mistake, the page 8 frames are of Rob's Pike and a darned good start it is. You certainly are maximizing the use of the space available Rob. Multi levels are a must and with traction, these layered scenes make sense, good show.[tup]

Pwolfe, yes indeed, I not only remember the Jones Store miniature kid's train, I rode the thing every time my Mother took us shopping. This would be circa 1944 thru 1949. The diesel and cars (3 or 4 as I remember) were silver in color and the gauge perhaps 7-1/2" between rails. A tunnel and miniature structures were in place along track side as well. Macy's bought the Jones Store and I'm not sure what came of the train after that. Frankly, I'm not sure of the power source either. I can only guess that it may have run on car batteries because it was nearly silent. I was very young but the image still remains. Thanks for including this remarkable memorabilia in you Post.

Must vamous for now. Good evening to all. I'll be seeing you in the morning.[^]

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom

Dont put the pint glass away yet I forgot something [*^_^*].

Slightly[#offtopic] Earlier this week the KANSAS CITY STAR newspaper ran a story of the restoration of a childrens train from the old Jones Store from downtown. It will be on display in Union Station in November. They are apealling for any information from anyone who remembers this train. The train is a G-12 model Streamliner manufactured by the Minature Train Co. in Rensselaer, Ind. I thought perhaps Ted or one of the regulars might know about this.

Ted, you are right. This is an oasis. It takes me so long to write that I have missed postings that were made about an hour earlier.

[pwolfe]

Hi Tom and all

Back to the Bathams then TOM please.I have just been talking to a friend in England who had been to a beer festival held in a preserved line's loco shed with 90 ales and 8F 2-8-0 and Jubilee 4-6-0 steam locos[:-^][wow].

A good morning of posts. ROB thanks for the Nearside car info I have seen photos in Classic Trains of cars with a FRONT ENTRY sign and wondered about it .

CM3 On our trip last week I didnt see any frieght and I must have missed the line to the tunnel. The yard outside Providece had a few box-cars in it but seemed to be mainly used by Amtrak rail maintaince cars. There were 3 Amtrak locos in the 500# series.
Was the interstate running alongside the line just outside Providence when you travelled [?]. Great post[tup].

TOM Thanks for putting me right on the Royal Navy flag. I was told that the only church was at Burnham Thorpe, Nelsons birthplace it just shows you cant believe everything you hear.

Another great flag [tup]. There is is still the WABASH name in the old station building, which is now used for the city bus depot, in Columbia MO also on a bridge over I 70 there.Looking at the atlas it seems along way round from St Louis to Kansas City compared to what is now the Amtrak route. It would be interesting to know how the Wabash got the name[?].

I think I have seen the poster on the Silver Jubilee the A4 engine does look a bit boxy. I think the A4s looked better when the valance over the wheels was removed and not replaced during the war. Also the Silver and Gray livery I do not think suited them. A non-working preserved one was painted in this way a few years ago. Most of the A4s were painted in L.N.E.R. Garter Blue. in wartime they were black. In B.R. days brunswick green was the color as are the 2 preseved in North America today. I think this livery suited them best although #60007 Sir Nigel Gresley was painted in the short lived early B.R. blue(like the Caledonian light blue) it looked superb [yeah].

#2509 Silver Link soon after being built was used on a Press run in which it ran for many miles averaging over 100M.P.H and setting a then world record of 112 M.P.H.
It also worked alone for 14 days faultlessly until the second A4 Quicksilver was ready.
Obviously Teething Troubles hadnt been invented yet [:-,].

I,ll try to do a piece on British Pullmans

Another pint for the road and a round TOM please PETE.

[passengerfan]

Hello Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Thanks for the Wabash fallen Flag. This was a railroad I always wanted to ride but never got around to it. Did ride on a Wabash car assigned to the City of Portland on one accasion. Car was built for service in City of St. Louis not sure why it was operating in City of Portland service.

The Wabsah Blue Bird was the only train in the land with a Budd built dome parlor observation that was Pullman operated. Those similar cars on the CB&Q were operated by CB&Q personel.

The Wabash Banner Blue operated the last Pullman operated heavyweight Parlor car in the US.

Later the Wabash Blue Bird would have the distinction of being the only trains in the US to operate two Dome parlor cars in the same consist both Pullman operated one was Budd built the other built by P/S.

[Anonymous]

Good early evening Tom and those who beat the Mentor Village "rush hour."[swg] I'll take Rob up on his previous offer and make it a CR, if you please. Let's see, this is Wednesday so it must be Pike Perspectives time, no? I first wi***o acknowledge all of the fine posts from every Member who are so geneorous with their time and efforts. May I make a "blanket" statement to all of you: thanks to you guys, "Our" Place is the "oasis in a desert" that it has become.[tup]

Having returned from my "mission of mercy," maybe the phone will remain silent long enough for a little chat. Oh BTW, that little half-hour "lending hand" turned into a 2-1/2 hour siege of twisting, turning, back breaking hostling of over sized furniture stuffed into a under sized studio apartment.[xx(] Isn't that always the way? Great stuff on the Wabash, one of the most romanticized R.R. ever. Maybe the Illinois Central is its' closest rival (Cassey Jones)? Al, yes the "Crescent" is usually credited to the Southern Rwy. exclusively...not so. Glad you cleared up the distinctions with the Pensy, and L & N. included in the mix. Which brings me to the "Pike" subject again. I have a Pacific Fast Mail "United" PS-4 brass built-up of that famous steam (4-6-2) that is so often associated with the "Crescent City Limited." (Southern Rwy) The price was $49.95 when I purchased it in 1961. OUCH who threw that shoe at me? Anywho, my plan is to eventually model that famous Varnish into a replica of the prototype. That seems a long way off from the present as, currently, I'm still redoing and undoing the whole "Pike" seeking more realism. EGAD, yet another distraction via "heart line." Tom, you are right. This seems less like retirement every day.

CM3, another "Gem," your posts are much like Nick's menus, "Classics."[tup] Rob, great stuff on the "near side" cars. When the long Witts first came out, I believe they had a motorman and a conductor who was located "center car" for exiting passengers. There was a turnstile sort of operation as the passengers debarked from the double center doors as I recall. I should remember for once, as a little Tyke, some Bozo pushed through too fast and I ended up "on the deck."[V]

I'll be looking in on page 8 now Rob. I had to muster the courage from the depths of my soul to see what I've perpetrated on our unsuspecting Members.[:O] Tom, your choice in costume is befitting the ocassion. And BTW, by all means, any and all R.R. "folk lore" will be most welcomed at the party for Boris' Birthday Oct. 31st. Okay, I'm late already, so its a "wrap" for now. Happy rails.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #14

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Budd Company and the Wabash from a advertisement (early 1950s) found in one of my scrap books.


New Blue Bird On The Wabash

This is the Wabash Railroad’s new Budd-built, all-stainless steel Blue Bird, on its winging flight between St. Louis and Chicago. The Blue Bird will make the round trip daily between these two great terminal cities, adding to the completeness of Wabash service and presenting to its passengers comfort and luxury in rail travel previously unknown.

For the Blue Bird is the latest in the roster of distinguished name trains which Budd has created for the modernization of American railroads. Four of its cars are Vista-Domes, giving passengers an unobstructed view of the rolling prairies, picturesque bluffs and river scenery along the way.

Like all Budd-designed, Budd-built equipment, this train illustrates a principle – that better products are made of ideas as well as steel. This was true of the all-steel automobile body which Budd originated and which has made Budd the largest independent builder of body components in the world. It was true of the steel wheel which Budd developed to take the place of wood. It has been demonstrated in the Budd Disc Brake, and in stainless steel highway trailers.

In the railroad field, Budd ideas were revolutionary. Ideas that attract passengers by making rail travel more inviting. Ideas that permit faster schedules and yield substantial operating economies. It was Budd vision which led to the whole concept of the modern, stainless steel light weight streamliner. And Budd today is the only car builder who employs the superior strength of stainless steel to achieve lightweight construction with safety.

The Budd Co., Philadelphia, Detroit

Budd


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G’day!

Some interesting stuff this mornin’ and I see there’s a few Posts for me to respond to …

Acknowledgements for coalminer3 CM3 – Theodorebear Ted – trolleyboy Rob:

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 08:46:55

Where to begin [?] Lotsa ground covered with your Post …..

The “laundry” – oh [yeah] who could forget that [?] Anyone who has ever watched a game at old Crosley Field surely has that building implanted in the grey matter; I know I do. Want some nostalgia [?] Click on this URL: http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/national/crosle.htm

Couldn’t agree more regarding Joe Morgan and his baseball analytical abilities – the best. Just as he was one of the finest 2nd basemen to grace the game – two time MVP at that. Loved that “arm flap,” hadn’t thought about it for quite some time. A trademark of his for sure! I KNOW which side of that series you were on – I was definitely over with the Reds. The homer by Fisk will always be what gets “Hallmarked,” but that was only game 6. We know the outcome and only one of us was pleased! [swg]

The October 31st “thing” for our cloven-footed friend, Boris is being overseen by Manager Ted. I can’t imagine that there will be any trepidation regarding “whatever” one may want to add to the festivities. Scary RR stories sound fine to me - Go for it! [tup]

Liked that narrative on the mail train to Boston. One can only imagine just how many stories there are “out there” regarding experiences aboard trains. The idea of course is to get those folks all under “one roof” – so to speak – kinda like this place of ours – and let the stories flow ……

I think Roy Acuff’s version of the “Wabash Cannonball” was by far the best – at least for me it’s the one that always comes up first. We’ve got it on the Juke – check out G14! [swg]

A bit of personal info regarding my experiences in Rhode Island. For the 8 years of living in New England (Norwich, CT and Boston area) we used to travel to a RI State Park called Arcadia. Familiar with it [?] My three kids learned to swim in that lake and we had some fantastic summertime weekends there. I recall that you had to get a “permit’ for a picnic table – the cost was 50 cents and it was “yours” all day. Can’t tell you how many times we made that drive and how great the memories still are.

Can’t say that I know much about RI politics, but I sure know a horse’s “metaphor” when I see one! [swg] Good analogy, for sure – can be applied in these parts quite easily!

Glad that you picked up on the L&N, kinda figured you’d have some input on that road. [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:04

Slow down “old timer,” remember – you’re retired! [swg] Sounds like you have one foot nailed to the deck and can’t get too far from where you’re at!

We’ll be here once you are able to gather your thoughts and put ‘em to the keyboard! Appreciate your taking the time to at least stop by – that really is the idea. Every Post doesn’t have to be a candidate for a Pulitzer – or Silver Throttle Award, for that matter! [swg] Just letting the guys know that you’re ‘round and kickin’ is meaningful too.

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 10:50:49

Okay, watswitchu and the daylight Posts [?] First we see you only near the bewitching hour, now you’re out ‘n about in the daytime! Hmmmmm.

Funny how those road names of old ring some bells now ‘n then, eh [?] One doesn’t require all kinds of experience with those roads in order to relate to ‘em. Just seeing the “flags” rolling by on passing freights, or better yet – passenger consists – is good enough. Lord oh Lord, by today’s standards, watching the freights is rather boring in terms of the heralds that aren’t. The cars are pretty much neutral in color and the names flick no switches for me. I mean how many UFXD stencils does one enjoy looking at [?] (I made that up!) Now when NAMES enter the picture – like FRISCO or WABASH or a host of others that we’ve been discussing over the past several weeks, that makes it all the better.

Didn’t know about those NS trains having Wabash origins. Interesting …..

Regarding today’s busy city streets and crowded intersections – well there would just have to be a safer way to handle it. But if the “old” ways were to be employed today – we’d have another way to trim down the urban population! [swg]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 26 Oct 2005, 11:06:38

Appreciate your contribution to Pike Perspectives Day!. So what’s the radius of your mainline curves going to be [?]

I had a layout in a space about 22 ft x 10 ft, with a center aisle – the layout was pretty much like a “U” with double span bridges over the open end. Anyway, I was using 18” radius with primarily Athearn passenger cars. Now that I’m outta that space and into the Can-Am – the radius is at 22” and all of the Athearns (shorties) are in display cases. Can now operate the full length equipment that looks so much better. If I had to do it again, I’d probably have reconfigured my track plan for 24” inch radius – even that slight gain provides a bit more in terms of realism. Operationally, I’ve had absolutely no problems with the 22”, in spite of what I’ve read on other forums.

Duh – a street railroad on Trolleyboy’s layout [?] Really [?] [swg]

I checked out your photo site and the pix complete the story. Brings back some rather recent memories ….. It’s a great hobby for sure. Thanx! [tup]

Next up is the NOSTALGIA piece ........

So, whatillyahave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[trolleyboy]

[oops] See that I went back to add afe comments and Ted beat me in in a run by sort of way. Oh well Tom I'll leave some ca***o pick up a beverage of his choice when he's back from his good neighbour mission(s) [tup]


I figured that I would do a bit of layout talk this morning afterall. I'm using a spare basement bedroom for the layout that's roughly 10 x 8' 12" , It is full of benchwork hugging the walls approx 24" deep with a four foot midline island. I'm likely going ( read will ) set up mostly urban scenes with a street car system winding it's way in and out of the city traffic. It will also interchange with regular VIA /CN /or CP passenger trains ( depending on my mood or time frame at the time)at a couple of mainline train stations, One of them is a GT class one depot which I built from a Sylvain resin kit. You can see it in the new layout construction shots on page 8 of ny railimages account.


It will be a ficticious trolley ling the H&SR ry ( Heatherton and Scottsdale street railway ) I've repainted several trolley models in their paint scheme(s) Most are pullman green bodies with TH&B creame ( fairly yellow creame ) on the windows and doors. Two cars are in an older red and TH&B creame which also works quite well togehter.

Primary street railway power is in the form of Two bowser DE Brills, One Bowser PCC ,I old walthers single truck Birney, two Bowser Indiana railway light interurbans,and three single truck Brills from IHC. I have 11 old bachman PCC's and Brills which are bach up power and will in some cases doante their inards to a few scratch building projects I'm planning for work equipment. Two of the Bachman brills have been repainted in company colour and will likley be yard filler / rush hour cars . The rolling stock traction wise rounds out with an MTS brass DT DE Brill snowsweeper very similar to the S 37 in my signature.

Again have a good day and play nice everyone. Rob

[trolleyboy]

The light the light it Burnnnnsss.[:p][}:)] Morning Tom and the gang,count trplleyboy indeed I resemble that remak[8D] So I'll have a coffee and a pair of raybans please[:o)][;)]

My goodness I beat the manager in here today! Boris be a help an ddraw the shades for me it's a bit bright. Noooo you moron not with your flouresant crayons [banghead] Tom you will have to take the dry cleaning bill from my next pay check [sigh]


Tom I like to think that everyone will use the monday indexes to scroll back to the more interestin efforts by our members. But saving that the occastional post from the past as an encore on Saturdays will sometimes spark more debaye and disscussion so is a good thing as well ( No I'm not trying tto sound like martha Stewart Boris Bad [alien] go lie down in your shed with your new dolly Martha[;)][:p][:D] )

Tom The wabash another fine choice,funny everytime I man the museum's tables at the St Thomas train shows the local C&W singing tallent seem to sing the Wabash cannonball. I don't have any personal recollections of the wabash per say, but I do have several books with pictures of the wabashe's interchange with CNR in Welland and Fort Erie Ontario. Strictly freight though they ran no passenger service North of the boarder as far as I know. Twom trains still run technically through Canada which were waba***rains. They are of coarse now NS painted but they do still run. Autoparts from buffalo through S ontario and out through St Thomas and on to Detroit.

You are right the original boarding of the streetcarswas backasswards[V][B)] and did cause many a problem. At keast with the nearside design and it's many clones , running the PAYE system. The streetcar companies had their bottom lines improved ( not as many legal payouts ) and less use of their life guard people scoops. You also didn't have the cars fouling intersections which made semce as burgeoning car ownership and use in the teens was starting to congest the roads of many cities even at that time. Imagine using the old system and trying to jump on and off the car on the far side of a major intersecction ![:0][xx(]


CM3 Let me pick you up some breakfast for that wonderfull as always post. Providence did have a quite large street car system for a city of it's size.They were one of the first US cities to go into the trackless trolley ( electric busses ) If memory serves they used a whole flock of single and double truck Birney cars. Cheap and safe but lacking in the creature comforts ie decent springs to lessen the bounce and jossel of passengers[:(!][:0] They were quite rightly known as omit rockets in many quarters[xx(]. The least said about deisel busses dressed up as street cars the better <barf>[V] Tom did I make myself plain enough there. LOL

Well I've got to mossey. Hopefully I can check back in later.

Rob

[Anonymous]

I'll have a quick draft and sandwich "to go" please Tom. I've been trying valiantly all morning to get a Post out. Constant interuptions have thwarted my best efforts. Now I must help a neighbor move some new furniture into his apartment. It just hasn't "let up" all morning. Please know I'm not ignoring anyone. I'll be "back in the sadle again" when these infernal obligatory social errands abate. Thanks to all who sent "best wishes" for my hearth and home. I was very lucky again to have had no damage. I'll return with a proper post a.s.a.p. Happy rails all.