"OUR" PLACE - SEE NEW THREAD!

[passengerfan]

PS Tome the railroads at one time used old baggage cars as tunnel cars for the transport of cars in the days before the modern car carriers came along. In fact I think this is where the tunnel car concept originated.

[passengerfan]

Tom Just a quick reply before I am out the door you asked about tunnel cars. These were old passenger cars that had new or reworked end so that the entire end of the car opened up either barn door style or in most cases one massive door and the interiors were striped and they were used by circuses, Ice Capades, Holiday on Ice etc. Many were old head end cars that were already equipped with end doors. I don't know of any Maintenance of way use for the cars but maybe.

[siberianmo]

. . . . . . . . . . ENCORE! ENCORE!. . . . . . . . . .

Here's the first installment of our Saturday Encore Posts! This first appeared on page 113 ........

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #1

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this out …….

Many of the passenger railroads we’ve heard of and perhaps traveled aboard, had their start up in the 1800’s and early 1900’s. Check out these names of perhaps the best known:

Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe (1863)
Atlantic Coast Line (1900)
Baltimore & Ohio (1827) #1
Boston & Maine (1835)
Canadian Pacific (1881)
Chesapeake & Ohio (1867)
Chicago & Northwestern (1859)
Chicago, Burlington & Quincy (1855)
Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul (“The Milwaukee Road,” 1874)
Chicago, Rock Island & Pacific (1866)
Erie (1859)
Great Northern (1889)
Illinois Central (1851)
Kansas City Southern (1900)
Lehigh Valley (1855)
Louisville & Nashville (1850)
Missouri Pacific (1879)
New York Central (1914, although the formal adoption of that name came later)
New York, Chicago & St. Louis (“Nickel Plate Road,” 1881)
Norfolk & Western (1881)
Northern Pacific (1864)
Pennsylvania Railroad (1846)
Seaboard Air Line (1900)
Southern Pacific (1884)
Southern Railway (1887)
Union Pacific (1862)
Wabash (1877)
Western Pacific (1903)

[source:] The American Passenger Train

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Guys!

First order of business is to remind everyone to READ THE SUMMARY it’s the only way you’ll know what’s going on ‘round here! [tup]

Before I get to the first of Saturday’s ENCORE Posts, I see there are a few Posts to respond to …….

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 22 Oct 2005, 00:38:41

Back to the wee hours Posting, eh [?] Well, it’s always good to see ya ‘round here, and moreso when the information is as inclusive as yours are! [tup] Can’t accuse you of not being a team player, that’s for sure! [tup]

Appreciate the expanded info on the NYC in Canada; never get over the enjoyment of learnin’ somethin’ new! [tup] When the PRR & NYC came to the bitter end, not only the east was impacted, but an era in railroading thoughout the land came to a crashing conclusion. It’s so hard to imagine how “just like that” it all ended – the craftsmen, the infrasture, the crews, the administrators, et al. I recall seeing the billboard ads linger on for RR’s no longer in operation. As time passed, and the weather faded away the lettering, one then turned to the countless girder bridges with their RR heralds. Some are still in evidence to this day. Not far from me one can find Missouri Pacific (MP), Santa Fe (AT&SF) and a few others. Must have been a high grade of paint! [swg]

Regarding the Forums, I was a bit negative with my comments about finding “nothing” out there to interest me. Of course there are many, many subjects being Posted and replied to that contain all kinds of useful information. Heck, I’ve asked several questions over time about this ‘n that and have received very informative and helpful responses. So, from that perspective, it’s still a very viable way to communicate. Unfortunately, there’s an overwhelming amount of clutter and absolute disjoined nonsense that seemingly is everywhere. Post a serious or topical matter, and you can almost bet that a few guys will make their presence known with crap. That’s a real shame and not at all what I want to engage in. We too have been on the receiving end of “barbs” and the like from people who didn’t or wouldn’t take the time to find out what we’re all about. We just had a “reformed” critic visit us for several Posts about 2 weeks ago. Anyway, what we do ‘round here with a relative handful of guys is sufficient to keep me interested! [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 22 Oct 2005, 07:21:18

A great Rendezvous idea for ”Our” Place would be an overnighter aboard a train! Now that would be the way to do it, and of course I’d highly recommend VIA Rail. I know it isn’t going to happen, but your comments regarding how many of our number have probably never experienced the overnight trip in a bedroom (or even coach) brought to mind how right on the mark you are. That trip up to Churchill on Hudson Bay from Winnipeg would be just about “right.” A chance for us to meet, relax, swap some stories, drink some adult beverages, and pick up on the ambiance of passenger train travel all the while in “flannel” shirts – hey, it doesn’t get much better than that! [swg][tup]

Just about EVERYTHING on the Can-Am HO layout was purchased and built within an 18 month period beginning just a couple of years ago. There are 3 or 4 structures from my former layout, but no vehicles and perhaps less than a dozen figures. I’ll be providing an inventory of the figures and structures on one of our Wednesday “hobby” days (daze), but first I want to see if anyone else picks up on Nick’s idea. Speaking of – where IS the man from West Wales [?][?][?]

I found some very interesting ads in our National Geographic CD collection dating all the way back from the 1990’s to 1888. Thanx to CM3 I never even thought about checking out those digitized magazines. Some of those sure bring to mind memories of years gone by ……. Really enjoy ‘em! I wonder if Life or Look offers a CD/DVD collection [?] Guess it’s worth a try to check it out ……

passengerfan Al Posted: 22 Oct 2005, 09:27:39

Almost missed ya – G’day Sir Oracle! [swg]

Man oh man you flicked my switch to that reference about someone’s “monster” and the piano. I’ll never, ever understand, tolerate or otherwise appreciate the ill-mannered parents of kids who foster their offspring on others aboard trains, in hotel common areas and cruise ships. Argggggggh. And before anyone even thinks of jumpin’ my bones about that – I’m a Grampa of 5 and surely wouldn’t let anything like that occur in my presence.

Thanx for the expanded info on the Recreation Cars – didn’t have a clue that pin ball machines were aboard the trains! Now how did THAT work [?] Hmmmmm, wonder what brilliant marketing mind came up with that idea [?][tdn] Reminds me of some of the baseball parks these days with wading pools, hot tubs, arcades, boutiques, etc. Isn’t the idea to watch the game [?] I would never entertain the notion of doing anything other than take in the ambiance of the train, an adult drink or three, dine in the diner, sit in the dome, etc. Pin ball [?] [yeah] Right! [tdn]

What does the term “tunnel cars” mean [?] Lost me on that one!

The Superliner features you mentioned weren’t really all that bad. However, as with these Forums, there are those who simply cannot and will not act responsibly when it comes to the consideration for others. Isn’t that really “it” [?] Nothing wrong with stereo headphones piping in some tunes for those who want that sort of thing. Becomes a real pain in the Patoot when the employees abuse it! [tdn]

Our society has and apparently will continue to “dumb down.” Press 1 for English comes to mind whether communicating with your telephone company, a retail outlet or the federal government. How awful it would be to hold the line for a common language throughout these 50 unUnited States. Sorry! Just got a belly full of “Press 1” yesterday when trying to communicate with the Social Security Administration and the Internal Revenue Service. Wonder why German isn’t on there [?] Hmmmmmmmm.

Okay, it IS time for me to get movin’ along. It IS a beautiful morning and it IS time for me to take on the chores of Saturday!

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and anyone else awake this early on Saturday. Guess I'll have a coffee and a diet pastry from the Mentor Bakery.

Just one more follow up to the PRR Jeffersonian.

The three Recreation cars delivered for the train in February-March 1948 by American Car and Foundry were the only cars of their type built for any railroad. By that i mean they were full recreation cars having features not found on any other cars. Starting at the non-boarding vestibule end they had what was called a Reading Lounge with twelve seats and another with a desk. Four of the seats were placed at tables for two with a checker board in the top of one table and the other table featured a Backgammon board in the table top for passengers enjoyment to while away the hours. Next was a nursery that featured toys a playpen, blackboard and childrens table and chairs.Next was a womens restroom off the corridor followed by a bar and 24 seat lounge for adults to enjoy. The lounges were the only dropped floor lounges found on railroad cars built in the US. The next area featured a Mechanical Game (Pinball). I think they worded it this way in company literature as many parents did not like their youngstera associating with Pinball machines at the time. Next was a small six seat theatre they called the newsreel room as this was all that was shown on the projection screen. Next was a small men's room and several storage lockers located at the vestibule end of the car one for Air Conditionaing another was the electrical locker, yet another was the film storage locker for the newsreels and a locker for extra bar supplies and cleaning supplies.

Certain features were not as popular as others or utilized as much as the railroad had hoped so in 1955 the Pinball Machine, Theater and Nursery were removed and replaced with Lounge seating.

All three cars were sold to the Holiday on Ice Show in 1964 and used as tunnel cars to hold the props for the Ice shows.

Judging the cars as to whether they were a success would be difficult unless one had first hand knowledge.

Todays Amtrak Superliner Lounges began life with a piano on the lower level that has since disapperaed thank God. Remember sveral passengers trying to enjoy a little converstaion with a drink or two while someones monster about eight or nine pounded on the piano. The lounge car attendant was oblivious as he had head phones on plugged into the car stereo system so that only he could enjoy. It was even difficult to get hime to fix drinks as he was so caught up in his music. I noticed after I and probably many others complained that the head phones were removed from the Stereo systems the cars were originally equipped with.

Well enough of my rambling time to start getting ready for work.

[Anonymous]

G'mornin' to the early crowd. Just coffee and a "sticky bun" (sounds disgusting, doesn't it?) this time Tom. I gotta feel "down" for our frineds in Cancun, Cozumel and the Yucatan. These were stops on the cruise ships that I worked in the 1990's. Had some wonderful meals and met really nice locals in both locations back then. While you fellows are basking in the glories of Autumn's foilage and brisk, invigotarating breezes; I'm still sitting in my hermitacally sealed (A.C., ceiling fans, et al.) Rancher avoiding tropical heat and humidity, yuk![V] I do miss the seasons until the "white outs," sleet and "bumper car" months arrive.

Rob, no luck so far on the Praries. I'll look forward to your shot tomorrow. I didn't fair much better on the B. & A. via the Net. There were several short line roads that evolved through mergers into what ultimately fell into N.Y.C.'s domain in New England/Canada areas. Earlydiesles, great to hear your on the mend. You'll be back in the "thick of things" before ya know it.[tup] I hope the Midland Rob, Barndad, and Gunns have a lucrative Halloween operating season. I know the funds are dearly needed. Hey, you guys are the only thing keeping memories of "Fallen Flags" alive and real.[^] Best of luck to all of you.

I can assure you that no matter how luxurious reclining seats on a day coach may be, there is nothing so restful as a real bunk in your own private compartment. I have come to realize that many of our number have never had the opportunity to make overnight sojourns on Pullman accomodations. I truly hope that at sometime in everyone's future, at least, one "over nighter" will be possible.

I wish I had more specifics to offer this Post but until things settle down, I'd best keep "an eye to the sky." Surely enjoying the additional input from the Vigilant on New England and north eastern Roads. One thing for sure, no matter how "dry" some days may be hereabouts, there is nothing "out there" with the quality and continuity you will find at "Our" Place. Say Tom, that is an impressive inventory of structures, vehicles and figures you have amassed through the years.[tup] Okay, I gotta make this a wrap for now. Happy rails to all.

[siberianmo]

SATURDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Good Morning from ”Our” Place where the start to the day begins with freshly brewed coffee, bakery goods from The Mentor Village Bakery and a <light> breakfast from our Menu Board. [tup]

Info for the Day:

(1) SATURDAY is now ENCORE DAY with selected Fallen Flags and NOSTALGIA Posts repeated throughout the day.

(2) Tomorrow is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course, the bar is CLOSED for business.

(3) A reminder of POLICY(repeated) Those who disregard the efforts of others on a routine basis are not welcome at ”Our” Place. One-way Posts will not be acknowledged and are not appreciated ‘round here. [tdn]

INDEX Monday’s only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 05:30:45 9 (143) Friday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 05:31:57 (143) Fallen Flags ENCORE! – PRR & NYC[/i]

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 07:39:16 (143) reply to trolleyboy & comments

(4) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 07:53:40 (143) National Parks, RR’s ‘n hotels

(5) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 08:25:45 (143) Perhaps the best, yet!

(6) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 09:29:25 (143) Inclusive Post!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 10:20:06 (143) reply to passengerfan – coalminer3 – Theodorebear

(8) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 12:54:54 (143) NOSTALGIA – PRR The Jeffresonian

(9) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 15:54:52 (143)

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 17:05:59 (143) reply to passengerfan

(11) passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 18:09:24 (143)

(12) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 19:05:42 (143) reply to passengerfan

(13) earlydiesels Dan Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 19:59:30 (143) He’s baaaaaaack!

(14) siberianmo Tom Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 21:18:27 (143) reply to earlydiesels

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening Leon. let me help you clear the last of the drunk track crews out to the waiting cabs,and I'll grab a CR and some left over deep dish while I'm at it.[:p]


Tom You have of coarse out done yourself again. Nice way to wind up the week with the to most famous or (infamous ) of the aeastern roads. I won't comment on the Pennsey as sadly I haven't any real relevant info on it to share.



I suppose however that since I grew up quite close to the NYC's strategic southern ontario shortcut I'll virtually pen a word or two there. Of cparse I'm primarily refering to the NYC's Michigan centrel sudsiduary which cut a swath accros souther and southwestern ontario. Linking the cites of Chigao Detroit and Toronto. Some interesting passenger trains there as well, as well as the CASO subdivision ( Canada Southern ) which linked in the Detroit Windsor St Thomas areas. The NYC startegically part owned the TH&B with the CPR giving them passsenger and freight revenues through the City of Hamilton andToronto via Buffalo on the TH&B.



Al may know already but all the heavy weight cars that the TH&B owned were in fact jointly owned by the parent railroads CPR / MC / NYC. So one woulf see Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo RY on the letterboards of the cars but the reporting marks would have a NYC MC or CPR registration as well. Of coarse as the NYC became for financially insolvent CPR bought up more and more of the TH&B stock eventually becomeing 100% owner losing the TH&B moniker and paint schemes in the mid 80's. Another fallen Flag for latter discussion perhaps.


Tom I understand what you mean about there being laess and less out on the forums. I do hope that we do not lose the good we have here, as I myself am finding less in the background white noise out there. All ribbing aside I know that you must be enjoying the "trollyisms" otherwise you likely wouldn't be bothering me about them.[;)][:D]


Dan Good to hear from you if briefly, I'm glad that you are on the mend slowly or not just take your time we'll keep the conversation hot for you[tup] Bad news about your locomotive problems those to I'm sure will pass,always nice to have a back up. we too are gearing actually this sat and next sat for our big halloween bashes. Usually our two heaviest patronized evente at the museum. Take care and enjoy your catch up reading.


Al & Tom Nice further info on the Pennsey passenger trains. Always nice to hear the condensed facts. I'm no longer a pennsey virgin[;)][:I][:D] Hearing about the recreation car reminded me of the CPR train of tomorrow and the farm techknowlogy trains they ran in the 50's and 60's. They were set upwith movies and games in a couople of express boxcars for the kids while they had exhibit cars for the parent sto puruse the latest farming impliments and techniques to improve crop yeilds etc. If the foggy memory serves it ws a joint CPR and Federal / Provincial government program. Used on the praries only.


CM3 thanks again a fine fine post lots of great info [tup][[:D]

Ted didn't want to leave you out. Hope that you are well prepared for the hopefully not to arrive storm. Just be carefull things are alot easier to replace thaan people. No Heroics man ! I'd love to see the Praie car pictures you have if you can find them. i'm going to post on sunday the one Praire car shot I have. It's one of the Nipissing cars , the shots not great as it's an old old postcard. The Preston car and coach desigend theses beuties for all of tthe Praire cities systems Regina, Saskatoon, Edmonton,Calgary, Brandon and several Ontario cities as well. Very few survive a couple of the Regina and Saskatoon cars aaand one or Two Edmonton ones are still around at Fort Edmonton and calgary's Herritage park none have been fully restored yet though. Do make it to Kennybunk they have an amazing museum. Lots of candian cars and quite a few interesting US ones. Make sure to get a ride on the Golden chariot observation car from Montreal.


Well folks have a good evening and morning I will check in tomorrow. Rob

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Gents!

What a good way to make my last Post by dropping a few words along to our friend earlydiesels Dan!!

Figured you've been recovering and it DOES take time, this is serious stuff and nothing to take lightly.

Appreciate the round - but save your bucks, for this place is totally empty tonight. Been the lonliest Friday I can recall 'round here. [tdn]

[yeah] We've had quite a few pages worth of some great Posts and I hope you do get 'round to catchin' up. On Monday there will be an Index page in the Summry. Check it out - it's a fast way to find the things that may be of interest to ya! [tup]

Hope the results from your scan are good ones and that you'll be back in good health real soon!

Don't be concerned about the Midland or "Our" Place; they both will be here when you're ready. [tup] Hope we get to see ya, perhaps once a day, if you're "up to it" that is! [swg]

Okay - Leon the Night Man has the bar! Closing time is midnight, unless of course we get some customers, then it's "last man standing."

Ntie! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hello everyone. I'll take a cold water with lemon as I am still on antibiotics from this pneumonia. When I went to urgent care on the 13th, Xrays were taken and along with the pneumonia, a spot was found on my left lung. The results came back today--supposedly it is scar tissue but the doc wants to run a CT scan to make sure. Thanks to all who inquired about me and the emails. Had a setback yesterday but feeling better today.
Now that I have unloaded that, let me buy the house a drink before that confounded bell starts ringing. Cancelled last weekend's trip to the Midland--never done that before. Things are still running up there until the end of the month and a Halloween train is running as I sit here. Our primary locomotive, MKT RS3m 142 fried its auxiliary generator last week so we are using the NW2 and the "real" RS3. Last time I was up there, I was conductor and the 142 picked the points at the north runaround switch so that had to be spiked. That has been repaired. Thankfully the end of the season is near so hopefully a new or rebuilt aux gen can be found before next season. The old one is already removed.
I've missed a lot around here but fully intend to become more active again. I've been sick for over a month now and this pneumonia doesn't want to let go of me. What I have quickly glanced at would indicate that there has been some high quality postings that I will go back and study when my strength and health returns. Tom, I've noticed more Fallen Flags and some have been of rrs that I've always wondered about and the passenger trains recollections are always read with interest.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

Heard the door open and figured one of the regulars had popped in. Good to see ya back so soon, Al. Save your money, no one here but us! Appreciate the offer ... [tup]

Regarding the information on those leg rests and seating, when one considers the time and what was going on between the railroads, it is all completely understandable. The operative word was competition, and whoever had the "leg up" (no pun intended!) stood (there I go again!) a better chance at making some bucks for the company. Innovatiness in design, comfort and amenities ruled the day, not to mention color schemes and interiior decors. A whole 'nother subject indeed when it comes to passenger rail.

When trains like the Broadway Limited and 20th Century Limited essentially ran side by side between New York and Chicago, the competition was so keen, that no effort was spared to garner the passenger's dollars.

Okay, 'nuf from me. I'm lettin' the gals go tonight - no need for a full Friday crew given the atmosphere 'round here.

Catch ya later.

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Afternoon once again Tom. Time for a CR and a round for the house.

Those postwar cars built for the Jeffersonian have an interesting side story to them. These seventy coaches were constreucted in the PRR shops at Altoona by PRR craftsmen and numbered 4100 to 4169. The cars were delivered between December 1946 and July 1947 and apparently the PRR had heard that other roads particularly those in the west starting with the 1947 Empire Builder were equipped with reclining seats unlike those seen before WW II . The difference was the postwar cars were equipped with full leg-resta as well and the PRR was not aware of this until after their new 44 seat coaches seating had been ordered. They specified the seats would have more recline than their prewar seating but did nothing about leg rests so the cars came with foot rests only. Although comfortable they did not compare with the new Heywood-Wakefield reclining leg rest seats then being ordered by the western roads AT&SF, UP, GN, NP and SP. The PRR assigned them to the Trail Blazer and Jeffersonian Even the 4068-4091 series 44-seat coaches from ACF delivered between October and December 1947 were without leg-rest seats. The PRR seating had 44" pitch between seats this allowed for large lounges for men at one end and ladies at the other but not the most comfortable coach seating available.

[siberianmo]

G'day!

What a difference a week makes! Without West Coast S Dave and pwolfe Pete for afternoon Posts, this place is rather QUIET! By the by - anyone seen or heard from Nick [C=:-)] Didn't have any Nick's Picks for our Thursday night fish fry ....... Hmmmmmmm.

Al pre or post war, I'd love to be able to travel aboard the Pennsy's Jeffersonian from here to the east. How wunnerful it must have been ..... The only mid-western trip I made aboard the PRR was in 1960 from NYC to Cincinnati. Don't recall the name of the train - but I'm sure it can be figured out. Was a great time, previously chronicled on this thread.

Thanks for the round! [tup] No point in ringing the bell, there's no one here .....

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Afternoon Tom Just time for a CR and a round for the houseJust noticed the PRR Jeffersonian Advertisement you posted and would like to add one thing. This was for the postwar Jeffersonian and the 4- reclining seat coaches almost matched the western cars except for the fact they did not have leg rest seats like the western roads and some of the eastern roads.

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA # 11

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR) from an advertisement in Classic American Trains


NOW . . . A Complete RECREATION CAR

Especially Designed for Your Pleasure

In daily service on The Jeffersonian, popular all-coach streamliner between New York and St. Louis!
A dramatic highlight in Pennsylvania railroad’s new equipment program, this colorful new recreation car provides amusement and entertainment for all ages. A luxurious game and reading lounge . . . a children’s playroom . . . a sunken buffet lounge . . . miniature movie theatre – pleasure with variety. Be among the first to enjoy it! Reserve a seat on The Jeffersonian on your next trip!

SO ROOMY AND RESTFUL – the new overnight coaches on The Jeffersonian. Only 44 seats to the car – and all reclining! You’ll like the new lighting too – fluorescent, 4 times brighter but easy on the eyes. New-type air-conditioning adds still more comfort.

EXTRA LARGE MODERN WASHROOMS, one for women, one for men at the end of each coach – handsomely decorated – with 3 glistening washstands and 2 toilet annexes.

Enjoy these New Features at Low Coach Fares!

THE JEFFERSONIAN
. . . . . . . . . . Westbound . . . . . . . . . .
Lv. New York . . . . . 6:15 P.M.
Lv. Philadelphia . . . 7:43 P.M.
Lv. Washington . . . 6:20 P.M.
Lv. Baltimore . . . . . 7:05 P.M.
Lv. Harrisburg . . . . .9:42 P.M.
Ar. Columbus . . . . . 6:46 A.M.
Ar. Dayton . . . . . . ..8:21 A.M.
Ar. Indianapolis . . . .9:27 A.M.
Ar. St. Louis . . . . . .1:50 P.M.
. . . . . . . . . . Eastbound . . . . . . . . . .
Lv. St. Louis . . . . . . 1:00 P.M.
Lv. Indianapolis . . . . 5:07 P.M.
Lv. Dayton . . . . . . . .8:13 P.M.
Lv. Columbus . . . . . .9:35 P.M.
Ar. Harrisburg . . . . . 6:51 A.M.
Ar. Baltimore . . . . . . 9:23 A.M.
Ar. Washington . . . .10:10 A.M.
Ar. Philadelphia . . . . .8:52 A.M.
Ar. New York . . . . . .10:25 A.M

Recreation car facilities available to Baltimore and Washington passengers between Harrisburg and St. Louis.

PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD
. . . . . . . . . . Serving the Nation . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning Gents!

A bit of activity at the bar this AM, always good to see. CM3 has sprung for the drinks, as is his custom, and provided yet another roll of quarters for our Wurlitzer! [yeah][tup] Drink up, Mates – there’s more where they came from! [swg] Go on, Boris swing on the bell rope why dontcha [?] <grin>

passengerfan Al Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 07:53:40

As always, we appreciate your timely and factual inputs regarding the subjects being discussed. The hotels of the railroads and the National Parks really fits in well with the topics of the past few days. Good job! [tup] For a change, have a drink on ME why dontcha [?]

The PRR & NYC Fallen Flags “do it” for me every time, even if they are “reruns.” Glad you liked ‘em. [tup]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 08:25:45

A railroad that absolutely should be included in the Fallen Flags series for New England is the Boston & Albany I wanted very much to include this, but alas, no data in my modest collection of hardcover railroad books. References here and there, but nothing with which to permit me to chronicle it the way the others have been. I’ll keep looking. However, strictly for CM3, THIS HERALD’s FOR YOU!


I think you outdid yourself with this last Post and speaking for those of us who give a Rat’s Patoot about this bar ‘n grill and attendant information exchange, you, Sir, are a most valuable customer. Thanx many times over for providing us with not only timely information, but accountings that put the reader directly into the narrative. That’s simply something to appreciate – and we do! [tup][tup][tup]

Oh yes, you've given me a great resource for research: The National Geogrpahic. We've got a CD set of 'em from 1888 thru the 1990s that contains every item in the magazines, including the ads! Thanx very much for the "tip," even if you didn't know it was one! [swg]

Glad you appreciated the inclusion of the PRR & NYC (even if reruns) for they “fit” into the weekly theme quite well.

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 21 Oct 2005, 09:29:25

Another day in paradise, eh [?] Will she or won’t she [?] Reminds me of the days (daze) as a teenager wonderin’ whether “she” would …… [swg] The way I figure it is every day “extra” affords y’all the time needed to make ready for the big blow – if she gets there at all. Let’s hope she doesn’t …….

Regarding the Fallen Flags seems that no matter how many times I “caveat” them, “explain” them, the comments still come back with, “But doesn’t that railroad still exist?” Of course, I’m referring to “fallen” only in the context of passenger railroading. Oh well, at least to make a comment one has to read the stuff! That’s the idea.

Today’s standard of living in America affords many of us with much, much more expendable dollars than ever before. Now, I don’t believe that the prices really are cheaper today, I think we just have sufficient bucks with which to throw at this or that, and it simply doesn’t “bother” us as much as it did way back when. I’ve seen several of those inflation gimmicky charts comparing the prices of this or that from then to now and always come away with my same conclusion – expendable bucks is what we’re talkin’ about. Anyway, I know that when those great trains were runnin’ virtually everywhere across the land, my meager pay as a lowly “white hat” didn’t provide very much for coach fare for the trains, much less a hotel room! [swg]

Catch y’all later and check out this afternoon’s NOSTALGIA piece!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

WOW, the New England series culminating with the Pensy and NYC is tour de force indeed. BTW, while lingering in that "neck od the woods," has anyone seen the Kennibunkport Trolly Museum? I have made a vow to see that site before "cashing in." Tom, I think just a cinnnamon cruller topped with a drizzle of that fine Can-Am County native Maple syrup and cuppa Joe should do it. Ah, thanks.[^] There is probably no need to "split hairs" on which of the Fallen Flags still remain. For all intents and purposes, they all fell when passenger service was abandoned for the AmTrak alternative.[:(] With all due respect to AmTrak fans, personally, I think this amalgum was only an expediate to keep some vital routes alive and "only just." No offence intended to anyone but (only my opinion) the shot of that GG-1 in AmTrak livery "says it all."[2c] Like the "shadow paint" on the older standard cars; it ain't "the real McCoy."

As to Nature's latest debacle, Wilma, what is there to say? I'll not turn my home into a cript any sooner than I must. Everything is set to "board up" before Minnie and me "take a powder" for safe harbor.[tup] Why anyone would elect to "ride out" such a cataclysm really mystifies me.[xx(] Its kinda like racing that train to the Xing, eh?[(-D]

Wonderful response to the R.R. hotels, Inns and Natn'l Parks. ***, Al, Tom, Rob and earlier CM3, really painted memorable portraits which still live on 'til today. From the look of early day prices (1920's and 30's), I suppose today's expenses are not that far out of line. If anything, they may be even a bit cheaper. Our standard of living has risen to higher levels so that a moderate income today makes "all things possible." When one retires, however, and "fixed income" rules, things do change and so must our priorities. Inflation becomes the most dreaded word in the dictionary. As we all know, "inflation" is precisely what we face now due to fuel shortages. Just "a word to the wise," regarding any far reaching fiscal palnning: "Be careful!!"

Tom, there is a lot more to the FM story than I thought. It brings to mind something of a Packard sort of an analogy. Most FM road diesels I've seen were, unfortunately, "on their last legs." Oh yes, that "Rutland" misnomer probably did come from an article in a early M.R. issue. Rob, I'm going to try to find pics of the "Prarie" class cars. "Conversion?" Funny, I never thought of traction and R.R.ing as two seperate entities. Frankly, I can't imagine one without including the other. But then, as a kid there still plenty of trolleys in cities and towns. Less so the Interurbans (Radials) but still the North and South Shore lines among a few other holdouts lasted very well. And, they are making a come back, "big time." Of course, just one generation removed; street cars were very rare in major cities.

Okay, I'll stop chewing the fat for now and let you guys get to more important matters. A round for the house please Tom. Boris...Oh never mind. I guess it really "isn't easy being green."[alien]

[coalminer3]

Good Morning: !@#$% computer just dumped my post so here we go again. Round for the house, coffee for me and $ for the jukebox.

Weather here is heavy fog and abt 60 degrees. There is very little color on the trees which is starnge because this is usually our peak season. The present ownership of the former C&O branch which runs at the end of my street has been doing some roadwork lately - ballast, cribbing, etc. Pretty much all done by machine, but it's good to get out and visit with the crew when I get home from work. The rail itself, for those interestd in 130 lb. welded - not bad for a branch line.

The Bangor and Aroostook is now, as other posters have said, the Montreal, Maine and Atlantic. Their corporate website is worth a visit to see that they have an eye toward their past in terms of the logo and the fact that they have redone some cars into the State of Maine Products scheme - one of the best ever, IMHO. RailPictures.Net's site has all sorts of color shots of MM&A stuff including some spectacular snowplow pictures up around Eagle Lake.

The BAR's traffic pattern "in the day" was a little different than most roads as their big traffic rush came during the winter months as they handled solid reefer trains of potatoes from Aroostook County south to New York. This was an interline route that ran BAR-MEC-B&M-NYNH&H. It took a good bit of attention because the cars had to be heated to keep the cargo from freezing. Then, sometimes, all of this had to be changed as the cars got further south - love that New England climate. The New Haven folks, some of them at any rate, called these trains "Yellow Dogs" because of the color of the cars. This traffic was lost to trucks, especially after the rr that shall not be named swallowed the New Haven.

The BAR also had a reputation of being frugal. Therefore, they leased their power out during the warmer weather rather than have it sit around doing nothing. This is whay you would see thier locomotives turn up in strange places. It was quite common to see them on the PRR for example. These were not run through trains, despite what some of the railfan press says.

Speaking of Maine, IIRC, the CP had an operation up there called the International of Maine Division - I have some pictures of cars sublettered for that. I defer to the CP gurus in the group for details.

Mention of the Rutland with the NYC is not that far off as the NYC owned the Rutland for a time. Jim Shaughnessy's book is without peer regarding that line: one of my favorites.

You folks are giving me all sorts of prompts for future posts. I guess I'll have to get back to writing some more. I appreciate the encouragement.

Now you lay PRR and NYC on us!

One of my best PRR memories is riding the Cincinnati Limited up and over Horseshoe on a moonlit night with fresh snow on the gorund - for once my roomette was on the correct side of the train so the whole curve was laid out in the moonlight - 'nuff said. Then there was the twin unit diner on the Broadway. My dad talked one time abt going to Columbus, Ohio and riding behind double-headed K4s going over Horseshoe. Oh well.......

Here's a little something on the NYC in steam. I may have posted this awhile ago, so some of you may not have seen it - if you have, my apologies.

Mohawks - The Boston and Albany

If the New Haven and the Boston and Maine were home roads, then the Boston and Albany was the way to the west. My mother (whose limited sense of geography was legendary in the family), was convinced that anything beyond Albany was the “Middle West”, and quite possibly desert populated by Indians. She believed the Albany to be a granger road that somehow appeared from the sky and plopped down on Massachusetts. All of this was based on the fact that some of the Albany’s trains operated to exotic locales such as Cleveland, Chicago, and St. Louis.

When I was small. I pored over the Central’s ads in the National Geographic; especially the ads for the overnight trains that ran along the Hudson River from New York. An ad that stuck in my mind was a piece called “One by One the Windows Close Their Eyes.” This showed a generic moonlight river scene. A westbound train ghosted along the NYC’s immaculately maintained four track main line. It was late at night, the copy said, and people were going to bed after an elegant meal in the diner. They would arrive refreshed at their destination the next morning, well-rested after a good night’s sleep along the Water Level Route. Another favorite was a wallow in unabashed nostalgia appeared around Christmas time. This ad pictured a toy train running around a Christmas tree. The copy, written to the tune of “Jingle Bells,” ran to the effect that “Oh, what fun it is to ride on a New York Central Train!”

The reality of the NYC in New England was much different. The Central reached New England via the rails of the Boston and Albany - another flinty, gritty, blue-collar, sleeves rolled up operation.

The ancestry of the B&A went back almost to the beginning of the railroads in the United States. The Albany steadfastly maintained its independence even after it had been absorbed by the much larger New York Central. The Albany contended with terrain and weather that more closely resembled that encountered by the Baltimore and Ohio or some western railroads. People used to talk about the Boston and Maine’s Fitchburg Division being a terror in the winter, but they never had to deal with an ice-filled cut at Washington Summit or flog tired locomotives over Charlton Hill.

Most of the B&A’s trains were diesel powered when I was growing up, but a few still got steam power. My father rode the B&A when he had to travel to jobs in the western part of New England. He often came back to Boston on a local train from Springfield and sometimes my mother and grandmother would go to meet him and I would get to go along.

Newtonville was the B&A station nearest to us outside Boston. The station was about in the middle of where the Massachusetts Turnpike (I-90) is now. Back in the late 40’s, though, the Newtonville station stood at the bottom of a grass covered knoll that swept down to the tracks. Here the railroad was in space unconfined by walls or buildings. It afforded an entirely different aspect to the viewer. Westbound trains rolled through there if they were not scheduled for a station stop.

In the golden sunlight of a fall afternoon, the silvery rails of the four track B&A mainline curved away to the west. To the east was Boston and the tracks receded from the station in a forced perspective enhanced by several overpasses. Now, from the east, barely discernable, a pinpoint of light grew larger and then seemed to remain still for a long time. The light suddenly grew larger and then larger still and a faint almost singing sound was heard in the rails. Smoke was visible now above the light. The engine blasted out from beneath the overpasses and then with a couple of enormous “chugs,” passed by in a welter of hissing steam, flailing drive rods, heat, and the aroma of coal smoke, hot grease, and oil.

A quick glance in the cab window revealed the fireman hard at work in white cap and blue shirt and the engineer silhouetted in the window on the other side of the cab, one hand on the throttle and the other resting on the cab window ledge, his eyes staring intently at the track ahead. There were some filthy New York Central baggage cars behind the tender followed by coaches, a diner, and four heavyweight Pullmans. I later found that the locomotive was a Mohawk class, probably among the last in New England, and that the train was the “New England Wolverine” with cars in its consist for Detroit and Canadian cities. The train headed, its smoke hanging over the tops of the cars. The fragrance of coal smoke lingered after its passing along with a slight dusting of cinders and smaller particles. It was glorious and I lost my heart to the B&A.

work safe

[passengerfan]

Good Morning Tom and the other early risers. Just doing some crammming for upcoming exam and took a break for a few minutes. Guess I'll have a coffee and one of those diet pastries.
Nice to see the postings on the PRR and NYC. Probably the two largest passenger carriers in the nation. But due to their size they never fully streamlined their compleat fleets until the 1960's when many trains were discontinued.
I would just like to add a little more to the hotels.
The GN Western Star was the train serving Glacier National Park during the 1950's and 1960's. Often the summer consists of the train were hardly recognizable as a GN train as their were so many off line sleeping cars bound to and from the Park. The NYC, PRR and SP were among roads whose cars were often seen departing from Spokane or Chicago destined for the Park. Often summers the Western Star operated with more cars than the Empire Builder. The Western Star dropped these foreign sleeping cars at either Belton or East Glacier and many passengers used the rooms as their hotel space while visiting the park as the hotels and lodges were most often fully booked. The Western Star usually was the train that moved the sleeping cars between Belton and East Glacier for the continuation of the tours.
Although not a National Park the UP operated Ski Trains to Idaho's famed Sun Valley and owned the famed resort for many years. Passengers on the Ski Trains from Los Angeles used the trains as their winter accommodations while visiting the always full resort.
Besides the previously mentioned National Parks the GN and NP promoted Washington States Mt. Rainier and Olympic National Parks in all of the Northwest Vacation literature. On many days it was not unusual to see Gray Line sightseeing buses meeting the arriving streamliners at King St. Station Seattle destined for these two National Parks. Although neither road owned any hotels or lodges in either National Park. Well time to get back to the books.

[siberianmo]

G’mornin’ Gents!

A rather bleary, gloomy mornin’ in these parts. Got some needed rain, not much, but things are a bit wet ‘n windy and the leaves are twirling to the ground. Gasoline was at $2.55 (rounded) at “Collusion Corner,” which by the way is down to two stations after Shell pulled out.

I see a Post to respond to from last night:

trolleyboy Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 22:12:05

When one wanders back in time, whether it be memory or simply through historical pictures, it just boggles the mind to envision what once was regarding the passenger rail network within the U.S. and Canada. I know from what I’ve been told by a friend from Greenwood, ON that he used to travel regularly between St. Louis and Toronto without having to change trains. Of course there were changes to cars and loco’s, but he remained aboard. Once in Canada, then changes at Union Station took place to points elsewhere.

My last trip out of Toronto’s Union Station was aboard the Corridor Train bound for Montreal. I just had to swing by the gate for the “Canadian,” just to look at the Sliver & Blue (1st class) waiting area, the signage, etc. That day, the westbound wasn’t operating, for it’s only a 3 day per week departure in both directions. My wife and I had taken it over the New Year’s holiday, leaving on New Year’s Eve for Vancouver. That was our 2nd trip and the memories will always be with me. While Toronto’s Union Station is by far the better edifice, by far the look and feel of a “real” train station, I must admit that I’m very partial to Montreal’s Central Station. Not much to look at from outside. Whereas Toronto’s Union Station is indeed an imposing sight. However, once inside, then the hustle ‘n bustle of a busy, busy station comes into vogue at Central Station. Never seems to be “quiet,” and the activity is just captivating to watch along with the bi-lingual announcements for the trains – AND – the chimes. Gotta love it! [tup]

Always happy to learn that someone appreciates the Nostalgia and Fallen Flags Posts. The more of these type Posts that can be generated by us, the better the chance to stick with the theme of [Classic Trains.

Looks like it’s time for me to redo the Regular’s List at ”Our” Place. Shouldn’t be hard, for there really are only a “handful” of us keeping it going – 7 days per week.

I spent a few minutes browsing all of the Forums yesterday and didn’t find one – not one thread that interested me. The nonsense is overwhelming, along with pretty much the same guys Posting the same stuff irrespective of relevance to the topics covered by the Forum. People runnin’ up the numbers count is all it is for many and it is very, very evident. Glad we’ve been able to keep things in check ‘round here. When and if this idea runs its course, I’m through with the Forums.

Did you notice that someone called up “Canadian Passenger Railroads” the other day [?] It had been dormant for months and then – Shazam! – it appeared. Happens, but unless and until the guys who ruined it either go to the tar pits or have a change of heart, I have no intention of getting back to it. Kinda bothers me that one who creates a thread can’t totally delete it.

[yeah] Right, you’re “not” trying to rope us into the thrilling world of Trolleydom. <uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh!!> [swg]

Catch ya later!

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[siberianmo]

Good Morning!

We’ve had New England Week around here insofar as Fallen Flags are concerned: Boston & Maine – New Haven – Maine Central and Bangor & Aroostook made their appearances. Appropriately then, here’s an Encore Presentation of two Fallen Flags to provide the finishing touch for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Pennsylvania Railroad (PRR)
Headquarters: Philadelphia, PA

Mileage:

1950: 10,000
1962: 9,756

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 2,402
Electric: 254

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 139,356 Passenger cars: 3,546

Principal routes in 1950:

Philadelphia-Harrisburg-Pittsburgh, PA
New York-Washington, DC
Pittsburgh-Fort Wayne, IN-Chicago, IL
Pittsburgh-Indianapolis, IN-St. Louis, MO
Pittsburgh-Cleveland, OH
Baltimore, MD-Buffalo, NY
Wilmington, DE-Norfolk, VA
Chicago-Columbus, OH
Logansport, IN-Louisville, KY
Logansport-Cincinnati
Fort Wayne, IN-Mackinaw City, MI
Columbus-Toledo, OH-Detroit, MI

Passenger trains of note:

Broadway Limited (New York-Chicago)
Clevelander (New York-Cleveland)
Cincinnati Limited (New York-Cincinnati)
Colonial (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
Congressional (New York-Washington)
Duquesne (New York-Pittsburgh)
Edison (New York-Washington)
The General (New York-Chicago)
Golden Triangle (Chicago-Pittsburgh)
Jeffersonian (New York-St. Louis)
Kentuckian (Chicago-Louisville)
Liberty Limited (Washington-Chicago)
Manhattan Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Pennsylvania Limited (New York & Washington-Chicago)
Penn Texas (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Pittsburgher (New York-Pittsburgh)
Red Arrow (New York-Detroit)
St. Louis (New York-Washington-St. Louis)
Senator (Boston-Washington, joint with New Haven)
“Spirit of St. Louis” (New York-St. Louis)
South Wind (Chicago-Miami, joint with L&N, ACL and Florida East Coast)
Trail Blazer (New York-Chicago)
Union (Chicago-Columbus, OH)

Of note: In the New York-Florida market, the PRR was a forwarder for many connecting passenger trains from other roads.


New York Central System (NYC)

Headquarters: New York City

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 1,965 Electric: 65

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 94,115 Passenger cars: 2,905

Principal routes in 1950:

New York-Buffalo, NY-Cleveland, OH-Chicago, IL
Buffalo-Detroit, MI-Porter, IN (Chicago)
Boston, MA-Albany, NY
Cleveland-Columbus-Cincinnati, OH
Gallion, OH-St. Louis, MO
Chicago-Indianapolis, IN-Cincinnati
Indianapolis-Peoria, IL
Cleveland-Pittsburgh, PA
Detroit-Toledo, OH-Springfield, OH
Toledo-Columbus, OH-Charleston, WVA
Utica, NY-Montreal, QC

Passenger trains of note:

Chicagoan (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Chicago Mercury (Chicago-Detroit)
Cincinnati Mercury (Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Cleveland Mercury (Detroit-Cleveland)
Cleveland Limited (New York-Cleveland)
Commodore Vanderbilt (New York-Chicago)
Detroiter (New York-Detroit)
Detroit Mercury (Cleveland-Detroit)
Empire State Express (New York-Buffalo)
James Whitcomb Riley (Chicago-Cincinnati)
Knickerbocker (New York-St. Louis)
Lake Shore Limited (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
The Michigan (Chicago-Detroit)
Motor City Special (Chicago-Detroit)
New England States (Chicago-Cleveland-Boston)
Ohio State Limited (New York-Cleveland-Cincinnati)
Pacemaker (New York-Cleveland-Chicago)
Southwestern Limited (New York-St. Louis)
20th Century Limited (New York Chicago)
Twilight Limited (Chicago-Detroit)
Wolverine (Chicago-Detroit-New York)


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]

[siberianmo]

FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Awwwwwright, Friday has arrived! The coffee’s freshly brewed, The Mentor Village Bakery pastry case is full and our <light> breakfasts are ready to go … so, what are you waitin’ for [?]

Info for the Day:

(1) Tonight is Pizza Nite plus Steak ‘n fries.

(2) A reminder of POLICY(repeated) Those who disregard the efforts of others on a routine basis are not welcome at ”Our” Place. One-way Posts will not be acknowledged and are not appreciated ‘round here. [tdn]

INDEX Monday’s only!

Fallen Flags this week: B&M – NYNH&H – MEC – BAR and NOSTALGIA Ads for UP – 1956 Hotels – FM motive power.

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 05:32:11 (142) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 06:27:30 (142)

(3) Gunns Kevin Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 06:52:46 (142)

(4) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:43:41 (142) reply to Theodorebear, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 07:45:13 (142) Fallen Flag BAR

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:10:11 (142) morning pick-us-up!

(7) wrwatkins *** Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:23:29 (142)

(8) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:27:51 (142) The Phantom speaks!

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:32:04 (142) info for Nick

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 08:59:52 (142) reply to coalminer3 – wrwatkins – passengerfan

(11) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 10:40:11 (142) Inclusive Post!

(12) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 10:47:12 (142)

(13) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 11:06:58 (142)

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 11:39:11 (142) Classic Juice #4 B&WSR

(15) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 14:19:05 (142) reply to trolleyboy & Theodorebear, etc.

(16) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 14:20:56 (142) Nostalgia – FM Ad

(17) wrwatkins *** Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 15:18:24 (142)

(18) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 16:54:43 (142) reply to wrwatkins

(19) passengerfan Al Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 19:55:25 (142) RR Hotels

(20) siberianmo Tom Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 21:45:22 (143) reply to passengerfan

(21) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 20 Oct 2005, 22:12:05 (143) Inclusive Post!

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

[trolleyboy]

Good evening again Tom and the boyz. Now that i'm off the clock I'll have a nice tall guiness and a round of what pleases everyone else.

Tom Not to worry I haven't petty cashed anything yet ( other than some chains and more of Boris's blue pills ) Sorryn to have lost you with my unique wording of the daze problem. [:O] Thanks for the follow up on the BAR. I have to say that it was my most favourite of the Maine roads. If I'm not mistaken the regional that took them over and runs them now uses a nice version of CPR's classic tuscan and grey [tup] Minf you it's on about a half dozen ex-amtrak F40's ( they've been doowngraded speedwise for frieght hauling )


Tom nice bit on the FM as well. Too bad that their engines were a bit ahead of their time. To manpower intensive with their opposed piston format [sigh] I suppose they should have stuck to marine engines. Mind you when you read the fleet specs on Algoma central marines lake fleet about 80% have FM power ! [tup]


*** and Al nice follow ups on the railroad hotels , resorts and national parks. I can think of a couple similar examples in Canada. Of coarse the Bamff park was brought to light by Van Horn and the CPR. In Ontario Algonquin provincial park was served by passengeer trains from both CNR ( ex Canadain Northern line ) and by the Ottawa Arnprior and Parry sound Railway, thought the latter was built by JRR Booth canada's rail baron of ill repute. Though his motivation for the park line was to allow him tp harvest it's old growth forests. Thankfully thengovt stepped in and only allowed / allows some minor managed cutting which allows for natural renewal aand regrowth. There are still stands of white and balck pine in Algonquin which are of original virgin forest 2-300 foot trees which are several hundred years old !

Lakeside park in st catharines was established as a destination for the NS&T, Likewise the L&PS set up Springbank park in London Ontario.And the LE&N set up several pavillions and dance halls at port dover to increase ridership on the east end of their interurban line.

Tom Glad you enjoyed juice #5 And contrayr to popular beleaf I am not trying to convert you guys.[swg] In fact I'm hoping that it is being at least somewhat informitive if not entertaining.[tup]

Well folks that's it for me tonight have a great rest of your evenings. Rob

[siberianmo]

Evenin' Guys,

I'm just about to check out and saw Al's Post ..... Leon the Night Man is here and will take over 'til closing time.

Thanx for the elaboration, Al on those National Park hotels insofar as connections with the RR's are concerned. So, I can "chalk up" at least one, the El Tovar. [tup] Kinda figured it was AT&SF, given that great station located at the south rim.

Back in 1953, while with the Boy Scouts en route Santa Ana, CA for a Jamboree, we stopped at Grand Canyon for the day. Came in by train from NYC. Anyway, had the chance to ride on mule back down to the bottom of the canyon. Amazing, simply amazing. Next visit - 1988 on the way home from CA upon my retirement from a 32 year career with the USCG. Stayed at the El Tovar. Memories. Also drove up to Yellowstone and stayed at their great lodge on Yellowstone Lake. The very next morning one could see the smoke from those ravaging fires of 1988. Things after that were never quite the same.

Ring the bell, Boris the round's on passengerfan Al!! [tup]

Catch ya later! [zzz]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[passengerfan]

Good Evening Tom and the rest of the gang. Time for a CR and a round for the house.The El Tovar Hotel at the Grand Canyon was built by the Santa Fe and operated by them for many years.
Now Yellowstone was served by four railroads the NP, CB&Q, CMSTP&P and UP. Not sure if any of the Yellowstone Park hotels were built by any of these railroads or not.
The GN built most of the Hotels and lodges in Glacier National Park and they were only sold off shortly before the BN merger. If one looks at the Glacier series sleeping cars of the GN they were named for the glaciers found in Glacier National Park with few exceptions. I believe that Goiung To The Sun lodge in Glacier National Park is the only lodge in a National Park that can only be reached by Hiking in and that includes all of the supplies as well having to be brought in by mules or pack horses. I have heard their is a simliar lodge in the bottom of the Grand Canyon but supplies are brought in by helicopter.

[siberianmo]

G’day Gents!

Quite an interesting day as the number of Posts is holding rather steady, a good sign considering we haven’t seen our friends West Coast S Dave – CFournier Chris – earlydiesels Dan – Trainnut484 Russell, and vacationing pwolfe Pete. So a ‘[tup] for those of you helping to maintain the “flow.”

*** Thanx for the money for the Wurlitzer, the quarters go directly to the Pig’s feet jar 5 plays for a quarter! Not a bad deal. Also appreciate the round – Boris ring it! [tup]

Regarding those hotels of the CP I’m sure you’ve checked out the SUMMARIES and found the INDEX section (now appearing on Monday’s only). You will note that on page 121 are the CP hotel and lodge listings, and on page 129 are those for the CN. Check ‘em out.

To get to those pages quickly, plug the number into the URL appearing at the top of your screen. Replace the one showing with whatever page you are trying to get to. It works a lot faster than using the “arrows.”

Don’t know who built the “main” lodges at Yellowstone or the south and north rims of the Grand Canyon, but if they can be traced to railroads – well done! [tup] In your research of what has been discussed, you should find several Posts on this subject as well.

Counting down to retirement can mean different things to different people. Hope it works well for you. [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Good afternoon Y'all. Ar ound for everyone in the bar and here are a couple of greenbacks for the juke box. Certainly glad we got the dollar bill changer installed.

Nick-your comment about checking the maps made me go looking for them to trace the WPT. I have two sources-Topo Zone and Google Maps. Topo Zone just gives you the topographic maps in color. They are good as the railroads stand out and you can see how straight the WPT is. I traced it from the Ohio River to Pittsburgh and there are very few curves. When they do cross the competition the other lines are following the creeks in a very circuitous route. Guess this why it was called the High and Dry. The other source is the Beta edition from Google. You have to do a little downloading to access the system (free). They have satellite images in addition to maps. They also offer a hybrid with roads named on the satellite pics. In major metropolitan areas the resolution is very good for the pics, but in the back country they go to a lower resolution. The satellite, being a photo, the railroads do not stand out that well, however, if you know the area you can make them out. I checked the Point area in Pittsburgh and you can see the piers. They are the black rectangles at the water's edge. Some blue covered barges are tied up on the west side of the river next to the piers. I think these are the charter boats that ply the river around Pittsburgh. I could not make out the tunnel even knowing it was at the end of the former bridge. Good hunting.

What is also interesting about the P&WV is that in the '20s when all major railroad building was complete in the US they built a line from Pittsburgh to Connellsville PA where they connected with the Western Maryland. Finally Gould's dream of an ocean to ocean railroad came to fruition, however, by this time the parts had been scattered to the wind.

Tom-I enjoy staying at old hotels that were once the property of the railroads. I like them because they have been refurbished into 5 star hotels but still retain their charm and ambience. You get finishing details in the old hotels that are cost prohibitive today. My favorites are the CP Hotels that have been spun off as the Fairmont chain. I have stayed in the Palliser in Calgary, Vancouver in Vancouver, Olympic in Seattle, Banff Springs, Chateau Lake Louise, Empress in Victoria, Jasper Lodge, Queen Elizabeth in Montrael, and Royal York in Toronto.

The railroads at one time helped to develop the national parks, NP built the one at Glacier, UP had one at West Yellowstone, and Santa Fe had a couple at the Grand Canyon. We have stayed at all of these in the 50's while on vacations with my parents. So much traveling to do after I retire. Only 162 more days!!!

***

[siberianmo]

G’day All!

Here’s something to ponder with regard to our appreciation and fascination with
Classic Trains. Check this ad out (from The Official Guide of the Railways – 1956) [located on the back cover]

Pioneering design keeps

Fairbanks-Morse motive power

first on the rails

. . . . . . . . FM

F-M Introduced America’s First –

2000 horsepower road locomotive

2000 horsepower road switcher

2400 horsepower passenger unit,
the “Consolidation Line”

2400 horsepower six-motor road unit, the ‘Train Master”

Each of these Fairbanks-Morse First’s was a trend-maker toward higher horsepower per motive unit – a trend quickly followed by other locomotive builders to the benefit of the railroad industry as a whole.

- - - - - - and now, another pace-setter, the “Speed Merchant” . . . America’s newest high-speed, lightweight passenger locomotives ., . . conceived with brilliant flexibility and single-engine simplicity – designed to put the profit back in passenger service.

- - - - - - Pioneering the future . . . improving the present. These are the continuing goals of the Locomotive Division of Fairbanks-Morse & Co., Chicago 5, Ill.

FAIRBANKS-MORSE
a name worth remembering when you want the BEST

DIESEL LOCOMOTIVES AND ENGINES – RAIL CARS AND RAILROAD EQUIPMENT – ELECTRICAL MACHINERY – PUMPS – SCALES – WATER SERVICE EQUIPMENT– MAGNETOS

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

CHECK THE MONDAY SUMMARY and INDEX PAGES FOR MORE GREAT NOSTALGIA POSTS!

[siberianmo]

G'day Gents!

A fine day this tuned out to be. Began with quite a bit of <gloom> weather wise and other wise here in mid-continent USA, as Cardinals fans awoke to the realization that there would be no Game #7, no National League Pennant, and no World Series. RIP 2005 Red Birds you "done good" during the regular season, but ran out of gas and into a hotter team in the playoffs. Now the sun has come out, the rains have held off (too bad, really) and the temps are dropping a bit as the cold front descends upon us. I think this is the same front that will ultimately decide the "fate" of Hurricane Wilma ......... hang in there Ted!

Okay, some responses appear to be in order:

Sorry Rob but I had to do a “double take” on that comment of yours

QUOTE: . . . cause my wife’s internal combustion machine has decided that it needs a new radiator.

Finally figured it out! You do have a way with words! [swg]

So, the attempt at a wedding seems to be “off” in that Boris won’t give up his dolls, eh [?] So what’s wrong with that, a little Ménage a Trois got the Mother upset [?] <Geesh> I doubt that the findings of the Attorney General would have permitted it anyway, not to mention the local resistance group. Heard that the sales of tar, feathers ‘n torches were runnin’ rather high up in the Can-Am Gorge country. [swg] All’s well that ends well, I suppose! (Kingston Trio, circa 1950s).

And, Chrissy “fessed up,” eh [?] Well, I will put off that interview for relief bartender, as I’m not convinced that she should be put on the payroll. Apparently Manager Ted has had her working ‘round here, but I haven’t authorized any pay. Wonder WHAT the payment could be [?] Hmmmmmmm. [}:)][:-,]

A reiteration of a reiteration: All Fallen Flags deal with passenger operations. As with CN, CP and others, those “flags” still are around, but the passenger side is long gone.

QUOTE: The Bangor and Aroostook Railroad (AAR reporting mark BAR) is a defunct United States railroad company, that formerly operated lines in northern Maine.
The company was incorporated in 1891 to combine the lines of the former Bangor and Piscataquis Railroad and the Bangor and Katahdin Railroad. It was based in Bangor and lines extended from there to Oakfield, Houlton, Madawaska, Presque Isle, and Searsport.

In 1995, the BAR was acquired by Iron Road Railways. In 2002, the company was declared bankrupt, and in 2003 its lines were sold to Rail World, Inc., which incorporated them into the newly-formed Montreal, Maine and Atlantic Railway.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangor_and_Aroostook_Railroad

Iron Road Railways combined the BAR with the former CP line from Brownville to Montreal. The trains operated along that 853 segment under the BAR herald. So the answer to your inquiry is a “qualified” yes! [tup]

Glad the formatting seems to be working, sure does make a difference!

Regarding the inventory of the hobby, just something I do, just my anal ways once again taking over! Right brained people ..... [swg] Anyway, it is a "reality check" for sure!

Thanx for your Classic Juice, number five believe, which will be added to the Index for Monday. Good stuff! You are slowly but surely reeling us in, aren't you [?] [}:)]

Thanx for the round! Spending some of the "big bucks," eh [?] OR should I be checking the upstairs tub in my private quarters [?] [swg]

Ted It could be that there was a "connection" with Rutland, but I've been unable to find any. Given that the BAR was a Maine railroad, connecting Rutland (Vermont, I presume) would have changed that precept completely. I am vaguely familiar with the Rutland Railroad having a "connection" with the New York Central, but that's about it. Also, the D&H competed with the Rutland Railroad for Montreal bound traffic.

There have been times when I've seen heralds and/or names of railroads that never existed. They came from modelers appearing in Model Railroad magazine and other similar periodicals. Easy to meld them all together. For example, I'm running a couple of M.E.S.S. 40 ft box cars from Fergie up in Dartmouth (Halifax) Nova Scotia. Purely a fictitious line with a great herald, one day someone will think that it is "real." Happens!

Commentary on "wedding," cloven feet aka: hooves and preservation of humankind surely puts any thought of a "union" out of the question. RIP! [tdn]

Glad the situation with the path of Wilma has given those in Florida additional time to make ready ...... let's hope it veers far south, or just winds down way, way south.

Okay - appreciate the continuing dialogue m'boyz - and don't forget that we need money in the till - SO, whatillyahave [?] [swg]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]

[trolleyboy]

Well gentlemen I'm on a bit of a roll as of late so I'll give you the next incarnation of..... Classic Juice The Berlin & Waterloo Street Railway later The Kitchener- Waterloo Railways


The first public transit in the towns of Waterloo and Berlin ( now Kitchener ) was provided bu the B&WSR which incorproated in 1886 This was a 2 and a half mile line in downtown Berlin from the Berlin town hall on Scott street down to Ceadr street in waterloo ( the towns now cities are built on top of each other )
This line carried passengers and mail and was a "horse car line "



In march of 1893 the company secured permission to electrify it's mainline.Due to a small bas e of capitol it took two years to complete the electrification. Power was purchased from the Berlin gas company which installed a new edison generator for this purpose. The first cars to run were three of the former enclosed horsecars which had new vestibules added and a Pekham electric truck with one 25hp westinghouse motor.



The old 30lbs T rail was replaced by lite 56lbs rail and the line was extended to Ontario and young streets in Berlin. In 1899 new management purcahsed two purpose built open cars from Ottawa car and coach as well as Two more closed ex-horse cars were purchased from an unknown sorce.

Another change in management in 1901 resulted in the purchase of more cars one new ( the first double trucker } from Ottawa car and coach., and two more second hand from Buffalo.Thes cars were bought for the new just completed bridgeport line.

In 1902 a further extention of the Scott street line in Berlin and was extended to madison street in waterloo where a new larger car barn was constructed.In 1905 a steam powered powerplant was built into the carbarn which allowed them to stop buying power from the city owned power company. At this point the town of Berlin sought to purchase the whole street railway but certain settlement s had to be made as half the ROW was in the town of Waterloo. In 1907 the town of Berlin assumed control of the entire system.



Once there was a stable ownership the trackage was upgraded and double tracked eliminating the slowdowns of passing sidings. The town also replaced the inefficieant steam power plant with cheaper hydropowere purchased from Niagara Falls. They also purcahsed several more cars second hand from saint John NB which were too large for the NB system so these Double truckers were essentially brand new.

In 1912 they instituted a pay as you enter service on all cars and as such purchased two new large "praire" type cars from preston car and coach. These cars were already equiped for PAYE service and a new 10 minute service started in 1913.

In 1914 the company changed names To the Kitchener & Waterloo as the name of "Berlin" was chabged to Kitchener on the outbreak of the war( and still stands today ) In 1919 the interchange with the GRR railway wasdouble tracked to speed up service and more Prairie type cars were purchased from Preston.In 1921 further routes were built along Albert and Sterling streers and turning wyes and ultimatley a turning loop ws constructed to speed up service. By this time all the routes were double tracked. The bridgeport line was extended deeper into the now city to margaret street where it crossed over on a vaiduct the Grand River Railway. a proposed line extention ( an interurban district to Guelph ) ws floated at this time but the finaces wer not there ( nor would be )


The imidiate post war years were interesting in that a huge new barn was built at kitchener JCT ( larger than a railway this size needed ) 5 large Peter Witt's were bought from the Cleveland railway these were intended to carry the swelled wartime passenger load but did not arrive untill 1924 ! The arrival of the witt's did allow all of the old horse cars to be scrapped and 5 single truck birney's were purchased in 1921 to replace the old Ottawa double truck cars on the Bridgeport line.


The last "new" eddition to the roster a birney was purchased from Peterborough in 1928interestingly the peterborough cars troute linen had a stop for a "CN Depot" which was useable in kitchener so the ever frugal line left it in place ! In may 1939 the transit system bought a small fleet of busses for cross town operations. Finding they liked them they abandioned the bridgeprt line to busses in 1940. The CN depot line was abandoned in 1941 carving the railway from 10 and a half miles to 6 and a half miles of track.

The sudden end occured in 1947 when a severe sleet storm took down the remaining trolley wire. A new trolley bus service was installed in 1953 to replace teh streetcars and this ran until 1973. The little used witt's were sold to regina and that was it.

Interestingly the cities of Kitchener and waterloo now a population of 500,000 are pursuing the construction of a new ligt rail sysrem to ease up on their traffic conjestion. The first phase is do to open in 2012 when it's expected the poulation will be close to 700,000. Funny how things come full circle. Rob