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Posted by siberianmo on Sunday, November 6, 2005 8:10 AM
SUNDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ All!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(2) Friday, November 11th is Veteran’s Day (U.S.) and Remembrance Day (Canada & Great Britain). In recognition of all those who have served or are serving, let’s do something special on that day at ”Our” Place.

Find something to Post that is reflective of either of the World Wars that has some connection to the railroads, the war effort or both. Advertisements abound from those times, so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

With a week to prepare, my hope is that we’ll get good participation! [tup][tup][tup]




INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 06:26:03 (155) Saturday’s Info & Summary

(2) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 10:42:35 (155)

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 12:28:18 (155) ENCORE! WP

(4) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 12:56:12 (155) Inclusive Post!

(5) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 13:06:28 (155)

(6) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 13:22:33 (155) Encore, Classic Juice #3 MS&C

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 15:35: (155) reply to Theodorebear & trolleyboy

(8) pwolfe Pete Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 16:21:10 (155) Inclusive Post!

(9) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 16:25:50 (155) PGE/BC Raiil

(10) siberianmo Tom Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 17:13:16 (156) reply to pwolfe & Theodorebear

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:11 AM
Yes, I know its Sunday, so in the "slot" this epistle goes. There that does it. Its too early for the Pix to be posted but I'm sure looking forward to seeing them.[^] This could wait until Monday but I awoke wide eyed at 5:00 a.m. with nothing to do after visiting the Drudge Report pages. Then, I remembered the subject of modeling a subway which has peaked imterest for some of us.

To be honest, I literally LOL when I first heard of the idea. I was thinking, how can you make something as mundane as "look alike" subway cars, buried out of sight interesting?[:O] Well, of course, that would be missing the point entirely, wouldn't it? Its really more about recapturing our life's past experiences via a H. G. Wells "time machine" sort of reincarnation. But then it crossed my mind, what an opportunity for employing the latest tech (DCC) for a totally automated train control situation. A "hands free" realistic stop and go operation of the trains would be possible with just a few commands entered into the remote. Even sound could be added to bring an otherwise, lack luster scene to life. So, maybe a subway isn't such a static addition after all. A modeler could go wild with a "endless" moving conveyer strip with "figures" attached, simulating a crowded commuter station. As Tom pointed out, the plexi glass panels would afford full view of some operations. There could be one danger, however. The scene could steal the show if done properly.

That's enough Sunday "pipe dreams" from me. Let's see those frames come rolling in.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, November 6, 2005 7:03 AM
Good morning all! Here's my submission for the mail slot! This has been my most hectic week in terms of being so busy that I didn't have time to get to the computer at all. Long days at work have been rewarded with even longer days at work, but I managed to still get to the IRM yesterday to do some sanding and wire brushing on our BN 5383. I tried to get a few pics of relevant fallen flag stock, but dopey me forgot to re-charge the battery in the digital cam, so my offering is not going to be too great today.
Tom, I wanted to locate our Budd RDC for you, but that's going to have to wait. We're really closed these days, and the barns are pretty much only open to the people who do volunteer work in them. I only feel comfortable being in the diesel barn anymore. It's really strange to only see a a few dozen people on the property, and the barns essentially closed. They still play big-band era music over the loudspeakers though.
However, I can submit some Southern Railway pics!

This is our Minneapolis Northfield & Southern Railway 21, built by Baldwin Locomotive Works in 1948. Length: 74ft 3in, Width: 9ft 6in, Height: 16ft 8in,
Weight: 356000 lbs, and 2000HP.

This is Southern Railway 10 1948 Pullman private car "Susan Marie". Length: 82ft, Width: 10ft 1in, Height: 15ft 1in and Weight: 211240 lbs.
I believe it was Ted who asked if we had plans to restore the 975 Southern Pacific in last weeks photos. Sadly, the answer is not in my lifetime. The big steam efforts these days, are to get the 1630 Frisco Decapod back on the rails ASAP, as I'm sure you recall that we didn't run steam in 2005. The current resoration project is the UP 428 Consolidation, and there is no completion date that can even be guessed.
I hope no one here gets the impression that the IRM is at all stagnant. We have so many projects going, it's truely amazing. As an example, though I still don't know the make or year of my "mystery car" (from previous photos), I do have some information. 1st, it caught on fire, which was pretty obvious. I believe it happend on IRM property. Anyhow, all that remained was metal, so the top was torched-off, and it is being converted to an open-air passenger car with bench seating. The thinking is that people might enjoy having the option of riding on this type of stock.
Welcome to DkDukert! (I hope I remembered that right). Congrats to CM3 on his recent Our Place elevation, and thanks to the rest of you for all of the terrific information you continue to post! This thread is incredible!

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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, November 5, 2005 5:13 PM
G’day Guys!

Awright – a couple of more customers and Posts. [tup][tup] Some acknowledgements are in order:

pwolfe Pete Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 16:21:10

Figured you’d either been havin’ problems with the ‘puter, or the bride wouldn’t let you use it! [swg] Glad you stopped by ……

[yeah] St. Louis was quite a rail center and corporate HQ in its day with MoPAC, Frisco, Wabash and Illinois Terminal located here and all running passenger trains out of Union Station.

Pehaps that friend of yours who viewed CM3s subway info would like to join us at the bar. The more the merrier! [tup]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 16:25:50

Just love “stuff” regarding BC Rail/PGE. One of my proudest moments in model railroading came when I “discovered” the availability of a very limited run of Proto 1000s by LifeLike Canada of BC Rail RDC3s (two separate numbers). Snapped ‘em up and it was one of those things that I just had to do. A “neat” thing is that one of the numbered cars is a replica of the car we traveled in between N. Vancouver and Lillooet, BC. Always nice to have a car on the pike that you can “relate” to. The colo(U)rs, the detail – it’s all there. They run well too on my “mountain division.”

By the by, I’m a real sucker for Gilbey’s Gin! Love it, especially during the warmer climes. Think I’ll forego the brew and have one in a tall glass, with a twist of lime! Ummmmmmm. [tup]

Okay – gotta skedaddle as they say. We’ve got some evenin’ plans so Cindy will have the bar until Leon the Night Man arrives. It’s Saturday night, so enjoy! [tup]

Remember, We’re CLOSED on Sundays, but it’s also SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY!

Catch ya later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 5, 2005 4:25 PM
Good late afternoon all, Tom, I think a Gilby's Gin & Tonic this warm p.m. (83 deg. F.). CM3, that is one fantastic piece on the Boston area's "under ground." I was at a total loss when in 1959, I ventured "down the tubes" for a "shot" at figuring out the system's routes, etc. The more I pondered the wall maps, the more intimidating this challenge became. At length, I just boarded the first P.C.C. that came along and some how ended up in a elevated situation. I detrained and descended the stairs into totally unfamiliar environs that seemed slightly threatening. Perhaps it was espying human excerement on the stoop of a Brownstone that engaged my "better judgement.". I ascended the same stairs and returned to the original point of entry, thence a return to North Station and a R.D.C. back to Beverly. Thanks again for another compelling story, looking forward to "...to be continued."[^]

Rob, maybe Tom's buddy Vito "the hit" can arrange for some more dental surgery so your detailed replys continue to roll in? Seriously, your running commentary on some pretty "isolated short lines" and feeders have cleared up some vague issues from the past, especially where the N.Y.C., Wabash and I.C. R.R.s were concerned.[tup]

Tom, this isn't much and probably "old hat" but maybe something may be salvaged from this "tid bit" on the B.C. Rwy. The Origin of the B.C. was formed by the P.G.E. Rwy which was financed by Investors from Grat Britain. A freight deal was worked out with the Grand Trunk Pacific R.R. under which PGE would haul all of G.T.P. R.R.'s freight between Vancouver abd Prince George. The first new loco bought by P.G.E. was built in Canada by the Montreal Locomotive Works in 1913. Number 51 and its sister #52 saw service until being scrapped in 1954. In 1918, the Province fell on hard times and P.G.E. went bankrupt. The B.C. provencial government then took control.

New construction of a popular passenger line running from North Vancouver to Whytecliff in W. Vancouver and a mainline from Squami***o Quensel improved ridership but not enough to make the Road any where near solvent. Gradually up through the 1940s B.C. Province's economy improved and lumber was the reason. The Line expanded rapidly with routes to Prince George in 1952, the Howe Sound section in 1956, the Peace River district was reached in 1958 and in 1971 the Fort Nelson line was completed. With new expansion, it was soon realized that the name "P.G.E." had nothing to do with the area of Canada it served. So, in 1972 the name was changed to BC Rail and changed again to BC Rail Ltd. in 1984.

Some of the most prosperous units used on the system were deliverd by the Budd Co. in 1956, they were RDC-1 (cab forward straight coaches) and the RDC-3 (cab forward w/baggage comp.). Between 1969 and 1973, new locos were added and they included 30-MLW 700 Series, 3000 h.p. units featuring Alco 251, 16 cylinder turbo charged engines; 17-G.M. of Canada SD-40-2; 7-G.M. electric traction class GF6-C (6000 h.p. over head pantagraph). These later addition locos worked the 50-kv "Tumbler Ridge" coal line and is said to be the most advanced operation of its kind in the world.

Well, thats about it for this evening. Thanks again to all who have had their say this fine Saturday. Happy rails to all.

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Posted by pwolfe on Saturday, November 5, 2005 4:21 PM
Hi Tom and all.

A pint if Bathams please hopefully. I say hopefully as I am expierincing some technical difficuties the last two days I can read stuff but when I try to write the computer is playing up.( the space bar was deleting letters and then the stuff disappeared into the either it was the same when I tried E-Mail [:(]).

Great Flags and posts lately. Thanks ALL

I see on the Nickle Plate and the Southern flags they had services that ran into St Louis. There must have been quite a few different different companies using that station in its hayday [?].

We had guests last evening one of whom was a Boston native he really appriciated the CM3 post on the Subway[tup][tup]. Looking foward to the next installment.

Thanks CM3 ROB AND TED for the info on the Coal Tipples As often happens something which is mentioned in the bar turns up somewhere else.In the new TRAINS mag there is a photo of the preserved Tipple at CHALMA it has been awarded the 2005
Trains Award[tup].

Talking of tipples a round for the house please.

There was a piece in the K.C. Star. They are moving 2 spans of a disused railroad bridge from the west bottoms and are going to re-erect it across the tracks by Union Station as a pedestrian walkway. It sould be moved in January and open in May. A lot of good things seem to be going on at K. C. Union Station[tup]

The computer seems OK now PETE.
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, November 5, 2005 3:35 PM
G’day Gang!

Yesterday was the slowest Friday on “record,” as only three Posts were made from three regulars. [wow]

Didn’t expect much today, given it is Saturday, but always good to have a couple of shared thoughts to check out.

Some acknowledgements are in order:

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 10:42:35

Your Emails have been received and responded to – thanx! [tup]

Glad the Fallen Flag – SR “flicked your switch,” it truly was one of those finer operations on rails. [tup] I know exactly what you mean when you say “it was love at first sight.” The D&H did that to me when I first saw those great looking Alco PA’s in that blue livery. Never traveled aboard it, but sure do appreciate lookin’ at the pix! [tup]

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 05 Nov 2005, 12:56:12, 13:06:28 and 13:22:33

Don’t hear from you for over a full day, then <zap> three Posts! [wow] Feast or famine, indeed! [swg]

Regarding the miles vs kilometers “thing,” I had read somewhere that there was tremendous resistance to changing the mile markers to kilometers, and at times nearly upset the ‘apple cart’ insofar as the metric system in Canada was concerned. It got “squashed” pretty well by those in Ottawa “bent” on ensuring that anything American is to be expunged from the Canadian landscape. I’m not making that up – it was something of an issue, but not run very often in the press. A pity, for common sense really took a bath and a back seat on that one.

Interesting that you mentioned LifeLike HO subway sets, for I am indeed checking out the availability of two sets. Very hard to find – and I’m NOT going to use eBay. I detest that “thing” and don’t want to be a part of it. Anyway, the sets I’m looking for are the 4-car subway in silver w/blue stripe and their “Red Bird’ series w/silver roof. I’d appreciate your help should you visit a LHS, for they haven’t been located on the net (yet). And yes, I’ve tried all of the “usual suspects, including the major Canadian sites. I can find the all red 4-car sets, and may settle for two of those if all else fails. I will place my initial order within the week, so time is of the essence for me. They are hard to find and limited in availability, especially since Walthers bought out LikeLike.

So, it appears my idea is beginning to grow and develop. It will be HO, it will run beneath Can-Am City and other portions of the layout as a dual track affair. I’m going to build some “shadow box” type “windows,” protected by plexiglass, where one can look into the stations and maybe along a right of way, just to see the trains passing by beneath the Can-Am layout. Should be fun to do. [yeah][tup][tup]

Will we be treated to something from you on Sunday Photo Posting Day! [?] I’m kinda runnin’ thin on material, and I don’t think my VIA Rail “stuff” has really done much as the comments have been rather absent. I think I’ve Posted about 20 of ‘em over the last two Sundays. My library just isn’t that extensive …….

Oh [yeah] thanx for participating in the ENCORE! Saturday [tup]
Looking forward to your Email.

Catch ya later!

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, November 5, 2005 1:22 PM
A Classic Juice Encore for this fine Encore Saturday



QUOTE: Originally posted by trolleyboy

Okay as promised yesterday: classic juice # 3 The Montreal and Southern Counties RY.This was an interurban line ment to link the city of Montreal with the southern Counties on the shores of the St Lawrence River.



The MS&C was originally chartered federally inan act of parliament in 1897.To provide service from montreal to st lambert. A second act in 1898 allowed them to build into the counties of,Beauharnois , Chateaugay , Huntingdon , and Napierville .A third act in 1902 authorized tha MS&C to enter into agreements with other railways on the South shore of the St lawrence.and eastern township areas. An act passed in 1905 allowed them to buy out a local bus line the South shore auto car company. they were slow to build from their initial start up date of 1897,indeed until a great deal of money came from the Grand Trunk railway. Little was actually built until GT allowed the MS&C to use the Victoria Bridge to cross the river to the southern counties this happened in 1905.



In november 1909 passenger service comenced between Montreal and St lambert. They ran as an independant company until 1911 when ownership went to the GT proper.and continued that way as a CNR franchise till discontiuance in 1956.Adding on of lines was slow and cautious. They reached Longiel in 1910 ( this was a point just east of the preasant day Jacques Cartier bridge )Ranelagh in 1911, Greenfield park i& Mackayvile in 1913,Chambly,Richelieu,and Mariesville in 1914. The town of Laprairie recieved a franchise in 1914 but never got the line built. The extension made it as far as Abbotsford and Granby in late 1915. With the final expansion to mariesville and Ste Angele completed in 1926 20 + years to build 50 miles of railway!




All the cars and equipment were of Canadain manufacture with the Ottawa car company building the bulk. All werebuilt narrow to accomadate the dimensions of the Victorian designed Victoria bridge.Most of the cars were wood bodied with monitor or railway roofs. Some later steel cars including the same 600 series cars later used on the NS&T arrived in the 30's.the first cars were built by Ottawa in 1909 #1-8single end passenger cars. #9-10 built by the Grande Trunk were the same just double ended.built in 1911,Cars 11-15 built by Osgoode Bradley arrived in 1926 were also double ended. (all MS&C cars were mu-able as there were no turning loops )The 100 series cars 100-105( double end cars ) were built by Ottawa in 1911 then 106-107 were double end combines built by ottawa in 1912 ( 107 is at our museum today )in 1917 the 200 series trailers were built #200-209 built by Ottawa one follow up 220 was built by Ottawa in 1930 non powered trailors ( wood bodies) .



Wooden 300 series work cars are as follows first 300 rotary plow built by Ruggles in 1910 second 300snowplow/flanger built by the NS&T in 1925.301 rotary plow built in 1910 by ruggles,302 and 303 de/dt sweepers built by Ottawa in 1910 and 1912. finally se wedge plows 304&307 built by Russel between 1906-1917. 305 dtline car built by the NS&T in 1924 , 306 express motor built by NS&T in 1921 DE locomotive 325 built by NS&T in1925.The first metal passenger cars 320-324 were built by Brill in1917 similar to arch roofed saftey cars ( dt ) also first non monitor roofed cars built for the MS&C. Final batch of 500 series work cars. 500 se flat motor built by Grand Trunk in 1911,SE express motors 501,502 built by National Steel Car in 1913 , 504 rexpress motor built by Ottawa in 1923 express trailors 503 & 506 were built by Ottawa in 1916 ( these were used to haul milk and mail ) The final cars were bought second hand from the defunct Sandwich & Amerstburgh Railway in 1930. They were built in 1923 and were the last interurban cars built in canada #620-623 These cars went on to run on the NS&T when the MS&C went out of business in 1956. Wordy but there it is. Have a good evening Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, November 5, 2005 1:06 PM
Oh a couple of more things. Nice encores BTW Tom.[tup] To bad Chris's not around he'd love the continued talk of the Western Pacific his road du jour.

Tom & Al Loved the continuing RDC saga's. The rail cars that won't quit. I have to say that even though I had seen them in the Via service I never have actually ridden on one. If I ever get to Dallas it will be a priority.

CM3 Thank's for mentioning the MS&C , you may have missed the classic jiuce piece I posted on it as I think you were vacationing at the time.Page 131 if you wanted to rerread it. the bytown historical society has published a nice softbound book on the MS&C just last year. You can get copies directly from them via their website, or our musuem stocks it as well. If you do make it up to our musuem ever, make sure to ride on 107 our MS&C combine car.


Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Saturday, November 5, 2005 12:56 PM
Good afternoon Tom and the gang. I'll grab a nice roast beef hoagie without the hoagie[:I][:p]

Yes indeed I'm back to work no major suprises[tup] unfortunatly this weekend sat and sun I'm supervising the night crew so I'll be sparse the next couple of days likley[tdn][:(]

Tom It is a suprise that the Canadian roads still refer to miles, I suspect it has something to do with the interchange of trafiic / crews with the United States. Remembering that both CN and CP own fairly large amounts of rail milage in the US and have American crews and customers.If they didn't at least attempt to work in both systems I'm sure the resulting confusion would be costly.

As to the Greater Winnipeg, other than the brief blurb I have given that's it's that's all I just have no info. CM3's synopsis in his subway post is more info on that system then I have.


Have you looked into the Lifelike subway cars for your Canam project Tom. they look good and run well a thought anyway. They are NYC prototype, but they do come on two or three different paint schemes ( none with factory applied grafitee though [;)][swg] )


CM3 Loved your story of the Boston Subway. I can smell the ozone and grease myself. I too thought I would meet a certain firey dimise the first time i rode the Younge Street subway in Toronto with the similar warnings. at least the tile and lighting are a bit better. I haad a chance to ride the new shepard line in Toronto last year.It's well done but the stations lack the grace and charm of the earlier lines. Very anticeptic and hospital like.


I'm glad you liked the one Ian Wilson book. Stratford is a good one. If you can try to get yourself a copy of Palmerston. For the tiny town it is/ was Palmerston was a major hub in all of CNR's central Ontario rail lines. All of this trackage is gone now so the book gives you a real feeling of what was. I remember by mother telling me some stories about her grandfather. He was a CNR section man based out of Palmerston. They would often take the train down from Listowel were mom was born and meet him at the Station at Palmerston. there was a pedestrian overpass of the main lines there, and the trains would pull into the station under it. many a daay she and my uncles would wait on the bridge as the Heavy Pacific's pulling the train would pull in drenching them in coal smoke a cinders. Much to my grandmother's dismay. I have also heard of many summer stories when great grampa would take mom and her brothers on his line inspections in july. Road out on the section mans car ( hand powered gandy dancer ) Good stuff really.


Tom and Ted I'm just off to peak at the email(s) will let you know what I think shortly.

later folks. Rob
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, November 5, 2005 12:28 PM
. . . . . . . . . . ENCORE! ENCORE! . . . . . . . . . .

Here’s another Fallen Flag for Chris and the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Western Pacific (WP)

Headquarters: San Francisco, CA

Route mileage in 1950: 1,137

Locomotives in 1963: Diesel - 174

Rolling stock in 1950: Freight cars – 5,532; Passenger cars – 29

Principal routes in 1950 (not including subsidies):

Oakland-Stockton-Sacramento, CA-Salt Lake City, UT
Keddie-Bieber, CA
Reno Junction-Reno, NV
Niles-San Jose, CA

Passenger trains of note:

California Zephyr (Chicago-Oakland)
Exposition Flyer (Chicago – Oakland)
Feather River Express (Oakland-Portola, CA)
Royal Gorge (Oakland-St. Louis, MO)
Scenic Limited (Oakland-St. Louis)
Zephyrette (Oakland-Salt Lake City) [RDC’s!]

Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, November 5, 2005 10:42 AM
"Try, try again." Howdy Tom and all that could drop in today. I dropped in earlier and was "cut short" by a neighbor's phone call. Weekends are "iffy" at best and unsolicited calls don't help.[tdn] E-mails have been responded to and questions are pending further replies.[tup]

YES, Southern Rwy will always be in my "most favorite" catagory.[^] Some of the "rolling stock" and locos are, for me, irresistable. The classic PS-4 Pacific with its graceful boiler contour, massive fire box, Elesco feed water heater and Baker valve gear is one of those pieces that marries up with the Soutnern livery like a GG-1 to the Pennsy's. The Science Bldg. at the Smithsonian Institution (Wash. D.C.) proudly exiibits a PS-4 in its original Sylvan Green, gold lettering and silver firebox/boiler front quarter plus the flat red cab roof in all of its splendor. The "Crescent" was the "Queen of the Fleet" for many years and passenger satisfaction through those years attested to the quality of service. Danville, VA hosted the S.R. principal shops during the steam era and many a fine specimen rolled in and out of them.

On the passenger side, I was very partial to the reshoped (welded sides) day coaches. With their high arch roofs (either flat black or Coach Green) , streamlined window shapes, and semi-gloss Coach Green paint (gold lettering) on the sides, I found the "understatement" in excellent good taste. There were no air vents or escutcheons to festoon the roof line as in most reshoped "standard" coaches. If anyone hasn't taken a peek at pix of the S.R. steam loco roster, please do so and post your opinions on them, if you will.[bow]

When the EMD E series diesels assumed most of the passenger chores in the late 1950's, S.R. clung to their Sylvan Green but with a off white splashed over it in in a livery design that reeks of mass in motion. My primary focus is on the 20' and 30's epoch with the "Crescent" Limited and its' touch of elegance applied to the normally utilitarian appearance of the Pullman standard designs. The "terrible truth" here is that I never rode that line in my life. But, in an old issue of Classic Trains magazine, I saw many pix and descriptions: "it was love at first sight."

Many thanks Tom for this Fallen Flag, one which I will archive post haste. Some earlier cimmittments are now pressing upon my time. I must break away but will "follow up" on prior Posts a.s.a.p. Okay Boris, its your turn! Gadfrey, he is turning the bell inside out.[:O][alien] Happy rails.
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, November 5, 2005 6:26 AM
SATURDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ All!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is ENCORE! day insofar as NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts are concerned.

(2) Sunday is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(3) Next Friday, November 11th is Veteran’s Day (U.S.) and Remembrance Day (Canada & Great Britain). In recognition of all those who have served or are serving, let’s do something special on that day at ”Our” Place.

Find something to Post that is reflective of either of the World Wars that has some connection to the railroads, the war effort or both. Advertisements abound from those times, so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

With a week to prepare, my hope is that we’ll get good participation! [tup][tup][tup]




INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 05:48:40 (155) Friday’s Info & Summary

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 05:50:38 (155) Fallen Flag – SR

(3) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 05:56:46 (155)

(4) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 09:09:06 (155) Boston subways, etc.

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 09:53:48 (155) reply to trolleyboy – Theodorebear – coalminer3

(6) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 12:05:56 (155) NOSTALGIA #19 – Ad Budd RDC

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 12:52:31 (155) Vets/Remembrance Day

(8) passengerfan Al Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 14:13:39 (155) RDCs

(9) siberianmo Tom Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 19:25:59 (155) reply to passengerfan, etc.

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 7:25 PM
Greetings!

Haven't seen a regular at the bar for nearly 5 hours! Fortunately the track gang's are havin' at it in the pool room, so all's not lost 'round here.

Thanx for the round, Al, always appreciated! By the by, your Email response to my Rendezvous message has been received. Thanx! [tup]

Thought for sure today's Fallen Flag SR would have attracted SOME attention ...... well, at least the NOSTALGIA piece got a response.

We've had a good run with those Budd RDC ads and I enjoyed the info provided by CM3 and of course your latest. You certainly have logged some miles travelling aboard those fine machines. I can say, thanx to *** Watkins and the folks at TRE in Dallas, that I've ridden nearly 40 miles in the cab of RDCs! My claim to fame. [swg]

As a passenger, I've logged several year's worth of commuting time aboard the B&M while living in the Boston area, and a BC Rail round trip between N. Vancouver and Lillooet, BC. Also had the opportunities to ride the B&O and NH RDCs, all pretty much at the end of their "lives."

Looking forward to the "rest of the story" from ya when you're able. [tup]

Sounds like I better check out that back room, things are gettin' a bit rowdy ...... I think Tex the Armadillo just took a "chunk" outta one of the guys new snakeskin boots. Boris has tried to mediate, and ........ oh good grief! Gotta go ......[B)]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Central Valley California
  • 2,841 posts
Posted by passengerfan on Friday, November 4, 2005 2:13 PM
Good Morning Tom and the rest of the gang. Guess I'll have a CR and a round for the house.
Missed a chance to ride the California Zephyr from Oakland to Chicago instead I rode the Zephyrette from Oakland to Salt Lake City. After staying in a motel I caught the California Zephyr from Salt Lake City to Chicago.
I know the Budd Car doesn't compare with the CZ but just to be able to sy I did it is something.. Remember we stopped for all meals and RR employees ounumbered paying passengers. I rode up front with different engineers for most of the daylight running. I guarantee the CZ was no where near as well liked as that Zephyrette by this railfan.For some unexplainable reason I enjoyed every RDC trip I ever took. And I rode plenty. The Dominion Atlantic on Canada's east coast from the ferry to Halifax. After riding the Atlantic Limited from Montreal across Maine then connecting with the ferry.
Rode the RDC 's on the CN on several occasions from Toronto to Kingston. Even rode the CP RDC from Toronto to Peterborough on another occasion.
Favorite RDC trip was the Cariboo Dayliner between North Vancouver to Prince Geaorge on both the Pacific Great Eastern and much later when it was the British Columbia Railway. Rode Great Northerns lone RDC in Montana. Will follow this up later just had company arrive.
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
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Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 12:52 PM
Next Friday, November 11th is Veteran’s Day (U.S.) and Remembrance Day (Canada & Great Britain). In recognition of all those who have served or are serving, let’s do something special on that day at ”Our” Place.

Find something to Post that is reflective of either of the World Wars that has some connection to the railroads, the war effort or both. Advertisements abound from those times, so it shouldn’t be too difficult.

With a week to prepare, my hope is that we’ll get good participation! [tup][tup][tup]




Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 12:05 PM
G’day All!

PASSENGER TRAIN NOSTALGIA #19

Here’s something to enjoy regarding the RDC’s from Budd from a 1954 advertisement found in my personal collection.

. . . . . RDC – Car with a Future for Canada’s Future . . . . .

The Canadian Pacific – world’s greatest travel system – has just bought four Budd stainless steel RDCs. (The letters RDC stand for Rail Diesel Car.)

The cars were bought because of their proved ability to reduce costs, improve service and attract traffic. But also with an eye to Canada’s growth, which presages an increase in the need for transportation as Canada’s vast mineral, oil and natural resources are developed.

Operating experiences with RDC usually reveals potentialities not originally envisioned. Nobody has yet found their limit, though RDC is now operating in a searching range of services in Australia, Cuba and Saudi Arabia, as well as on our own country’s leading railroads. The Budd Company, Philadelphia, Detroit, Gary.

Automobile and Truck Bodies and Wheels. Railway Passenger Cars and Plows. Budd

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . PIONEERS IN BETTER TRANSPORTATION . . . . . . . . . . . . .


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom[4:-)][oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 9:53 AM
Mornin’ All!

Still a rather warm start to the day ‘round here, skies have clouded over, but no rain is forecast. The winds of yesterday (gusting to 40 mph) have calmed considerably and it’s a good day for pickin’ up leaves! (What else [?]) There are nearly 30 deciduous trees on our property, most of ‘em planted by me thanx to my bride’s ever-luvin’ affection for the things, and of course the chore of pickin’ up after ‘em, falls to the “yard man,” me. [swg] So off I go, “fortified” with allergy meds, make my day, trees!

Some responses are in order:

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:06:37 and 23:55:51

I knew it was too good to last! Are you sure you don’t need another “extraction” [?] Anything “bothering” you that could keep you home [?] [swg]

Appreciate the continuing interest in “that book” for me. At this point, whether it is a soft covered version or hard doesn’t matter. My preference for “keepers” have always been for the hard covered versions – used or new, not a problem. Just love BC Rail and wish I could have found some “stuff” for the Fallen Flags, but perhaps it’s still a bit early for that in the data I’m looking for.

Just read where CN had another derailment in the Squamish, BC area and it has the “natives” really upset. CBC has an article on it in today’s cyber news. The Mayor and others are demanding that CN reduce the length of the trains, which they believe is a contributing factor to these rather frequent derailments. Just goes to show that bigger doesn’t always equate to better.

Nice work with that compilation on Canada’s railway’s mileage, locos and cars. Interesting that they are still using “miles,” given that the “powers in Ottawa” long ago decided that the Metric System was in, and the English system was out. VIA Rail still refers to “miles” in many on board references, whereas their schedules are in kilometers. Kinda screws it up – but what do I know!

Some advice regarding the formatting. As you have found out, spaces (space bar) are problemsome when trying to create something other than a narrative.

I have compile the majority of my “stuff” using a word processor format. Then I cut ‘n paste it to the Forum and use the “Preview Reply” capability to see what it will look like. This step is important, for what you see in the “Message” block IS NOT the same as what you will see when “Preview Reply” is called up. Then I determine whether more editing is necessary BEFORE posting the information. It’s a labor – no doubt – but worth it if one is trying to achieve a particular effect.

So here are the steps I recommend:

(1) Use a word processor program to draft a response.
(2) Cut ‘n paste it to the “Message” block on the forum.
(3) Use “Preview Reply” to determine if it “looks” the way you want it to.
(4) If yes – Post it. If no, delete it, clear the “Message” block and go back to the draft for editing.

Now for things like columns and additional spacing: The forum will not recognize more than one space (space bar), regardless of how many are “struck.” A way around it is to use characters like periods (.) or dashes (-) separated by spaces (. .) or (- -) or all run together (…..) (-----). This is a way to achieve that effect you may be looking for. Check out some of my NOSTALGIA pieces and you will see what I mean. It ISN’T perfect, but close enough. [tup]

Hope your return to the work force is a smooth one and there are no “surprises” awaitin’ ya! [swg]

Oh yes, thanx for the quarters for the Juke! [tup] Oh dang it – these are Canadian quarters – way too light for the mechanism. Man oh man, between these and those Canadian Tire dollars ….. [swg]

Theodorebear Ted Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 05:56:46

I wondered who had been readin’ the paper! I was in the kitchen, getting’ those <light> breakfasts ready for servin’.

Browsing the other Forums always leaves me wonderin’ why I do it. Really an absolute turn off in most cases. Far too much crap and obvious numbers escalations going on. I suppose the Kalmbach folks are no different than anyone else in business these days (daze) heaven forbid that we impose any rules, enforce any standards, etc. Been in a restaurant lately? How many people were using their cell phones? Heard one go off in Church last Christmas Eve and it was ANSWERED! Nope, there is little regard for decorum or keeping to the intent of a given subject or place these days (daze).

I still regard some of the guys over at the CS rather high up on my list of people with whom I intend to maintain comms. Unfortunately, there is so much to wade through just to get to where one wants to be, that I’m – in a word – overwhelmed. Cannot and will not make a steady thing of it only because it really wears me down.

Also, I got into a “flap” last Memorial Day with one of their self-proclaimed “elders” when I chastised one or two for Posting “Happy Memorial Day.” That really flicked my switch and still does. Happy [?] Perhaps for those who survived, but how about the millions over time who didn’t [?] Nope – not happy. Anyway, this guy really too issue and hasn’t “spoken” to me since. Won’t acknowledge, won’t refer, simply plays it like I don’t exist. Well that’s a two way street and easily handled by me.

Back to “Happy.” Happy Veteran’s Day is fine, for we are honoring those who have served and are serving. That’s appropriate. But when it comes to things like Pearl Harbor – Happy Dec 7th just doesn’t jive, or Happy 911, or …….. Arggggggggggggh. There’s a song from “Chicago” the stage play sound track – “Nobody’s Got No Class” that surely fits.

There is an Email awaiting all on the Rendezvous in Toronto mailing list. Seems that we were both thinkin’ about it at the same time. Rod Serling, where are you [?]

coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 04 Nov 2005, 09:09:06

There is no “doot aboot it” the Boston area did have the largest concentration of RDC’s in the world given the rundown you provided. They were absolutely appropriate conveyances for the types and lengths of trips being scheduled. The Budd Company didn’t lose any money up there, would be my guess.

Never heard of the Greater Winnipeg Water District in terms of railroading. That’s one we need to hear more about. Sounds like a “Canadian Thing” to me – how ‘bout it, Rob [?]

Another 4.0 Post on the Boston subways. Really a “keeper” and hope the guys take the time to not only read it, but get “into” it. Thanx! [tup][tup][tup]

In the 5 years I lived in that area (Melrose and Dedham), my subway ventures were rather sparses. As I’ve indicated, about half of my years up there I used the B&M’s RDCs from Melrose to North Station. Anyway, my subway experiences come from the Grand daddy of them all, NYC, with the IRT, BMT, and IND. Used to know pretty much all the stations – really. Anyway, strap hanging was a problem for me, for as a kid, I couldn’t reach ‘em. Thank heavens for the poles. Used to travel from South Ferry (Staten Island Ferry) to the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium quite often as a youngster. What a time to be a kid, really. No problems with being 10, 11 or 12 while riding subways with a buddy or two. Today [?] Right! How times and people have changed.

Subways – ah yes. If I could find an affordable consist of cars that resemble the ones I used to ride (1940s and 1950s) I’d “snap” ‘em up and get going with my latest scheme for the under the Can-Am board subway system (scale can be O or HO, doesn’t matter to me.) Funding [?] Well, the bride can always get a night job! [swg]

Round and quarters greatly appreciated! By the by, I have a roll of Canadian quarters I’ll trade you for one of those books you mentioned! [swg]

Okay – I’ll be behind the bar and will Post this afternoon with the NOSTALGIA piece, unless something extra ordinary pops up ‘tween times.

So, whadillhave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: WV
  • 1,251 posts
Posted by coalminer3 on Friday, November 4, 2005 9:09 AM
Good Morning All, coffee, please; round for the house and $ for the jukebox. We'll punch up two Doc Watson tunes today; "Blue Railroad Train," and "Southbound."

Ian Wilson's books are great reading. I have the Stratford volume and thoroughly enjoyed it.

The Progressive New Haven - The Boston area had probably the largest concentration of RDCs in the country when you consider what the B&M, NYNH&H, and B&A had. Now we have the Southern in our fallen falg collection.

The Greater Winnpeg Water District - one of the better rr names out there.

In a 1930 vintage ORG I have, their material was buried in the back of the Canadian NAtional Rys setion. Other roads sharing space on the poage witrh the GWWD were the following: Canada and Gulf Terminal; Morrisey, Fernie and Michel Ry;" and the Montreal and Southern Counties Ry. This last ought to get our electrified folks inmterested.

Anyway the Greater Winnipeg had passenger service (6 days a week - north one day and south the next) between St. Boniface, Manitoba, and Waugh. I always look at the footnotes in the ORG entries and found this entry under the GWWD listing "Returning leaves Waugh by 7:00 a.m." You snooze, you lose, I guess.

Since there's talk on the board of building a subway, (down, Boris - not for sandwiches) - here's the first part of a longer post re the Boston subway. Again, all of this is pretty much changed beyond recognition - track, cars, etc. It took awhile to put my rough notes into a somewhat coherent format.

Subway

Riding the subway was always an adventure. The Boston subway was old when I was growing up. There were not as many stations then (sit and read the stations marked on the glass map in the holder beside the car door; Harvard, Central, Kendall, Charles, Park St., Washington, South Station, Broadway, Andrew Columbia, Fields Corner, Shawmut, and Ashmont - that was it), and the trains only ran as far as Harvard Square, although the streetcars ran out to Arlington, but that’s another story for another time.

Most of the time we rode the bus to get to Harvard Square. This involved a walk to the corner, crossing there and waiting at the bus stop. There was not much of a sidewalk to stand on as the concrete, or what had been concrete was pretty well broken up. There was a lot of dirt and sand and a few tree roots sticking up, but that was about all. The traffic was much more interesting than trying to write my name in the dirt with the toe of my shoe and getting yelled at by my mother for “scuffing up your good shoes.” T

Trucks were, of course, smaller and noisier. I always looked for Macks, especially the ones with chain drive since they made a glorious racket as they rolled past. Lowbeds (which is what they were called then) with construction equipment were good, too.

The bus (Middlesex and Boston Street Railway Co.), would come in time and we’d get on, pay the fare and sit down. There was a fare box at the front of the bus which automatically counted the money as the passengers dropped it into the slot on the top of the box. It made a neat “clinka-clinka-clinka” money-counting sound.

After awhile, we’d cross the bridge at Fresh Pond that went over the Boston and Maine’s four-track main line. There was always something to see there, even if it was just a cut of freight cars, but usually I’d get lucky and see at least a switch engine pushing cars around, mostly for Bethlehem Steel which had a fabricating operation to the north and west of the bridge.
The New England Brick Company, which burned in a spectacular fire one Halloween night when I was maybe about 10 years old, was just to the west of the bridge, and the Dewey and Almy chemical plant glowered threateningly in the distance.

The brick company stretched for several hundred feet along the B&M tracks and when it did burn it was a total loss. We could see the flames from the top of one of the hills in the neighborhood when we went out trick or treating and terrorizing the neighbors.

Past the bridge was a rotary (traffic circle), and the bus slewed around there, thumped across a railroad siding that served a coal and lumber yard, and headed into Cambridge.

The buildings were different here, wooden triple deckers and brick commercial structures with stores on the ground floor and apartments above them.
I wondered what it would be like to live in a place where if you wanted something to cook for dinner all you had to do was go downstairs and buy it - not bad.

The store windows were full of canned goods stacked in pyramids and there were usually placards or posters in the windows advertising the wonders that awaited within at incredibly low prices - this week only! One week faded into another, however, and the incredibly low prices remained from week to week.

Some markets had outside displays of fruit and vegetables where customers could pick what they wanted and have it weighed, bagged and paid for; all outside. A lot of the stores had cloth awnings which the store owners raised or lowered by using a long wooden pole with a crank at one end. The storekeeper stuck the pole into a receptacle at one end of the awning and turned the crank at the bottom of the pole. ‘Round and ‘round it went , and the awning rolled up or down.

The parade of stores passed by the bus window: stores selling food, clothing, furniture, funeral parlors, flower shops, restaurants and package stores. In the alleys between the buildings were stacks of garbage cans and here and there a garage, radiator shop or a store that fixed radios, TV’s, or small appliances.

Television was just starting to make its influence felt and the tops of many buildings had silvery TV antennas sprouting upward among the clotheslines.

A little closer to the end of the ride, we’d see the wires for the electric buses or “trackless trolleys” which ran through the center of Cambridge. The trackless trolleys were noiseless, but every so often a blue cracking arc of electricity between the overhead wire and the poles on the bus would remind me of what they ran on.

Traffic was always heavy through here, but even a metropolitan Boston driver respected a Twin Coach product. Squeezing through a narrow space between a dark blue Plymouth station wagon, two bright yellow Checker taxis, and a coal truck, the bus braked to a stop, the driver opened the door and we were at Harvard Square.

The subway station was in the middle of Harvard Square. It was a low gray stone structure with a metal roof and some ornamental iron work. In red letters above the doors was a sign which said “Rapid Transit to All Points - Eight Minutes to Park Street.”

People were always in a hurry there and it was hard to get a chance to take in all of the activity. You had a choice of walking down the stairs or riding a narrow wooden escalator to get to the station’s “lobby.” Here was a change booth and turnstiles. The process was quite simple - shove a dollar bill through the slot in the glass window and get some subway tokens and some change pushed back to you by the bored looking man sitting inside. Then take a token, put it in the slot in the turnstile and push your way through.

Little kids rode for a nickel and had to reach up to drop their nickels into a change counter which was pretty similar to the one on the bus. That done, we went down the stairs to the platform and waited for the train.

Harvard Square Station was on two levels. The upper level, which allowed passengers quick access to buses and trackless trolleys without going outside, was for trains coming from Boston. Inbound (to Boston) passengers boarded their trains on the lower level. There was a single track on each level. The upper level went to the car barn (actually an open area for car storage) which was occupied a space near the Charles River between the Harvard University campus and Memorial Drive.

I always liked going by the yard when driving into Boston. Row on row of subway cars sat parked on the tracks waiting for their next trip. Sometimes, trains ran past the Harvard Square station to the yard to discharge passengers going to a football game at Harvard Stadium which was just across the Charles River.

I remember walking by the yard a few times when going to the stadium with my father or uncle to see a football game. There was a cement and brick wall around the yard which had a few gaps in it and I wished I was taller so I could see more of the trains behind the wall. I could hear trains approaching the station from Boston as they pulled in above me and the entire station rumbled and shook with a deep, menacing, growl which was almost deafening because of the confined space in the station.

Just about all of the old Harvard Square station was ripped out in the late 60s and early 70s when the subway was extended from Harvard Square to Alewife, so what I’m about to describe no longer exists. As I mentioned, the subway line was single track with a high level platform to let people board and leave the trains quickly.

The track resembled that of a regular railroad, except that a third rail was mounted outside the right rail. The third rail carried the electricity which powered the subway car’s traction motors. Every so often on the third rail was some white lettering which said “DANGER - THIRD RAIL DO NOT TOUCH!” I was concerned most of the time that I might fall off the platform, touch the third rail and be instantly fried, so I never got too close to the edge of the platform. Everyone knew of somebody that had been fried because they weren’t paying attention - never mind that there was no hard evidence of anyone ever being fried, except for a drunk in South Boston or some despondent person who threw themselves onto the tracks as the train pulled into the station, the thought of being electrocuted frying, swelling up and bursting into a million fragments was enough.

The track was not really ballasted but sat in what appeared to be deep layers of grime, oily dirt, dust, candy wrappers and old newspapers; I suppose there were ties underneath that mess somewhere. The walls were dingy white porcelain tile and there were brightly colored advertising signs attached to them at intervals. Most of the signs I remember advertised Wrigley’s gum. Behind me was a brightly lighted newsstand which sold Boston papers, candy bars cigarettes and cigars (in those more innocent days), and magazines.

The station itself was not well lighted. Rather there were a few bulbs that tried ineffectually to pierce the darkness. I found that I could see pretty well once I got used to it. I tried to get close enough to the edge of the platform so I could see up the track to where the tunnel coming from the car barn curved away, but not close enough so that I might fall off, wind up against the dreaded third rail and be fried - INSTANTLY!!!

After awhile I could hear a train coming. It sounded differently than did the ones on the upper level as the noise was not as deep. I could hear the wheels squealing around the curve from the yard and hear the hollow whistling sound of the brakes being applied as the motorman brought it closer to the station.

Then, there it was - four red lights marking the corners of the lead car, the blue-uniformed motorman sitting in the cab with one hand on the controller. The train of dirty, green painted, steel cars clomped into the station and screeched to a stop. The wooden doors banged open and the passengers began boarding the train.

These cars were not luxurious, they were utilitarian in the best sense of the word since they had been built to last through years and years of hard service. The windows would be open if the weather was warm and I could smell the pungent sweet scent of oil and warm traction motors.

A compressor cut in under one of the cars with an urgent “lunga, lunga, lunga” sound, and then cut off with a harsh snap of air under pressure. It would be time to leave pretty soon and I made sure to try and get a seat near an open window so I could see everything.

One feature of these cars I remember was a map of the MTA system in a glass panel by the door. I wonder now and then how much one of those would bring if offered at a memorabilia auction. Enough of that, though, it was time to go.

The doors banged shut, “snuuffaaa,” went the air brakes, the traction motors groaned into action and the train began moving forward slowly at first, then much faster. I don’t think we were really went all that fast, but the fact that the windows were open and we were in a tunnel gave the illusion of really moving rapidly. Central was the next stop, just a short distance from Harvard Square. The section of the line from Central to Kendall was about the longest stretch between stops and the train really moved along here. The noise was thrilling, palpable, and altogether wonderful. You truly could not, as my mother always said, “Hear yourself think.” The racket was redoubled whenever we met a train. The other train roared past us in a blur of lights. This was what it was all about - going some place fast.

Years later I read a passage in a novel by Thomas Wolfe in which the hero, tormented by a desire to be everywhere, see everything, and absorb all of life’s experience in the process, would ride the subway from Cambridge to Boston and see if he could hold his breath between stops - I did this when I was five years old and enthralled by Little Golden Books rather than the Sage of Asheville. The run from Central to Kendall was a long one, whether I held my breath or not.

To be continued

Work safe
  • Member since
    April 2003
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, November 4, 2005 5:56 AM
Mornin' all, I'm up before the chickens this a.m., so I'll help meself to toast and a splash-a-Joe. I see the moring paper on the counter. That means Tom must be around here somewhere. BTW Tom, thanks for the Nickel Plate addendum.[tup]

Some progress is being made on the HO side of the tracks. I'll fill you in next Wednesday for details. I did a litle browsing earlier and peeked into the other Forums. Nothing has really changed. Its the same old hackneyed subjects with the same core of responders, postulating the same advice, for something like 3 years non-stop by now.[V] If the old cliche of "too many chefs spoil the sauce" is true; examples of it may be found everywhere you turn. Glad that hasn't happened here yet. I don't think it ever will.[8D]

I "scoped out" some of the airline's fare increases along with valet and overnight parking, plus meals and lodging around the country.[:O] By Gadfrey, its astonishing! Lacking a crystal ball, I can't predict what may happen between now and May 2006. My "Rendesvous" plans have not changed, however, allow me to pass on a "word to the wise." If the current rate of "fuel inflation" continues, it is only reasonable to guess that "the best laid plans of mice and men" could be adversly effected.[:(] At this point, it probably isn't fair or prudent to ask Rob to "stick his neck out" on any firm committments. I hate to be the harbinger of "doom and gloom." I'm only stating what all of us already know. Now is not the time to commit to far flung plans, only to have them dashed assunder by unpredictable future fiscal realities. "The glass is still half full" not empty for me. But on NO account, should anyone be "out" a penny for commiting to tentative reservations that could "fall through." More on this should probably be discussed via e-mail...until then.[tup]

This may have been mentioned in past postings. There are many videos out on Railroading and two I can recommend for U.S. Roads is "America by Rail" which takes recent scheduled AmTrak routes with side trips to several "excursion" runs available "in season." Greg Scholl and Les Jarrett produced these volumes and "CounterTop Videos/James Entertainment is the distibutor. Another is "America's Railroads" distributed by Marathon Music & Video which inclues 7 volumes of steam through diesel. Your local library probably has one or both for your viewing.

Its dawn now and I don't want to risk another early "black out," so I'b best "get outta Dodge. Get well real soon Dan and Rob. Regards to all our great Members. Happy rails to all.



  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 5:50 AM
Here’s another Fallen Flag for the gang from Classic American Railroads:

Southern (SR)

Headquarters: Washington, DC

Mileage in 1950: 6,300

Locomotives in 1963:

Diesel: 644

Rolling stock in 1963:

Freight cars: 40,038
Passenger cars: 587

Principal routes in 1950:

Washington, DC-Charlotte, NC-Atlanta, GA-Birmingham, AL-New Orleans, LA
Cincinnati, OH-Chattanooga, TN-Birmingham
Danville, KY-St. Louis, MO
Chattanooga-Memphis, TN
Chattanooga-Morristown-Knoxville-Bristol, TN
Chattanooga-Atlanta-Valdosta, FL-Jacksonville, FL
Valdosta-Palatka, FL
Salisbury-Asheville, NC-Morristown, TN
Asheville-Spartanburg-Charleston, SC
Charlotte-Jacksonville
Danville-West Point, VA
Greensboro, NC-Norfolk, VA
Rome, GA-Mobile, AL

Passenger trains of note:

Aiken-Augusta Special (Washington-Salisbury-Augusta)
Asheville Special (Washington-Greensboro-Asheville)
Birmingham Special (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxvillle-Chattanooga-Birmingham
Carolina Special (Cincinnati-Knoxville-Asheville-Greensboro & Charleston)
Crescent (New York-Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans))
Florida Sunbeam (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Florida points)
Kansas City-Florida Special (Kansas City-Birmingham-Atlanta-Brunswick & Florida points)
Peach Queen (Washington-Atlanta)
Pelican (New York-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Piedmont Limited (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)
Ponce de Leon (Cincinnati-Atlanta-Jacksonville)
Queen & Crescent (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Royal Palm (Cincinnati-Chattanooga-Jacksonville)
Skyland Special (Asheville-Jacksonville)
Southerner (Washington-Atlanta-Birmingham-New Orleans)
Sunnyland (Memphis-Birmingham-Atlanta)
Tennessean (Washington-Lynchburg-Bristol-Knoxville-Chattanooga-Memphis)
Washington-Atlanta-New Orleans Express (Washington-Atlanta-Montgomery-New Orleans)

Of note:
PRR handled SR trains east of Washington.
N&W handled SR trains via Bristol between Lynchburg and Bristol.
A&WP handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery.
WRofA and L&N handled SR trains to and from New Orleans via Montgomery west of Atlanta.
Frisco handled SR trains between Memphis and Birmingham, west of Birmingham (The Kansas City-Florida Special).
Frisco handled SR trains handled the Sunnyland Memphis-Birmingham route.
SAL handled SR train The Florida Sunbeam south of Jacksonville.


Enjoy! [tup]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Chesterfield, Missouri, USA
  • 7,214 posts
Posted by siberianmo on Friday, November 4, 2005 5:48 AM
FRIDAY’s INFO & SUMMARY of RECENT POSTS

Mornin’ All!

Info for the Day:

(1) Today is Pizza Nite along with Steak ‘n Fries. [dinner] Dinner begins at 5 PM!

(2) Saturday is ENCORE! day insofar as NOSTALGIA and Fallen Flag Posts are concerned.

(3) Sunday is SUNDAY PHOTO POSTING DAY! and of course the bar is CLOSED.

(4) Watch for the announcement for a ‘special’ participatory event for November 11th (Veteran’s Day – Remembrance Day – Armistice Day).

INDEX Mondays only!

SUMMARY

Name - Date/Time - (Page#) – Remarks

(1) West Coast S Dave Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 02:12:11 (154) WP RDC’s

(2) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 05:45:22 (154) Thursday’s Info & Summary

(3) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 05:46:25 (154) Fallen Flag – Nickel Plate Road

(4) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 07:05:56 (154)

(5) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 08:15:37 (154) reply to trolleyboy – West Coast S – Theodorebear

(6) coalminer3 CM3 Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 08:24:47 (154) Daily pick-us-up Post!

(7) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 12:04:40 (154) NOSTALGIA #18 – Ad Budd RDC

(8) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:46:46 (154) Inclusive Post!

(9) bjdukert Duke Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:55:51 (154) Visitor from the CS

(10) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 15:06:52 (154)

(11) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 16:52:46 (154) reply to trolleyboy & bjdukert, etc.

(12) Theodorebear Ted Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 17:50:33 (154) Inclusive Post!

(13) siberianmo Tom Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 21:17:57 (154) reply to Theodorebear, etc.

(14) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:06:37 (155) Inclusive Post! Canadian Railway info

(15) trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 23:55:51 (155)

=======================================
That’s it! [tup][;)]

Tom (Siberianmo) [4:-)] [oX)]
Proprietor of “Our” Place, an adult eating & drinking establishment!

Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:55 PM
Sorry guys the lists on the last post wouldn't work out. When I tried to space them the edit function told me I had too many characters. In a nut shell its miliage locomotive numbers and then frieght car numbers listed after the railway names. Rob
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, November 3, 2005 11:06 PM
Good evening Tom. I'll donate a roll of quartters for the "boombox" [swg] I'm heading back to work tomorrow so I'll be the night guy again[sigh] Oh well I'm sure that you folks will keep it humming in here.

Tom I haven't given up on the BC book if I find a good one I'll let you know. I like keeping on top of the hardbound and softbound rail books with Canadian or traction content. My thing. I certainly don't mind picking up a book if it fits what I like and lights my light as it were. On top of that our museum gift shop caters specifically to books and videos, Traction and rail as long as the rail is Canadian. Heather's Mom runs the gift shop so I tend to help her pick out good titles from the catalogue ( are you hearing that Al hint , hint I already have her wanting your book when it's done ! )


Thank's for the nickle plate url I'll savee that to take a peak later. I know thta you are essentially zeroing in on the passenger side but I'm a big picture sort of guy. Heck I just love trains. [tup][:D]

Ted CNR /CPR arebmy main rail loves so I will grab any good book that comes along. As I said though the Ian Wilson series are built to entertain and inform, they aren't dry stat after stat type books. His writing style basically lets you know what a day on the particular subdivision would be like. What passenger trains ran what freights etc. And then the marvalous and plentiful pictures from all the masters to bac it up. Couple that to the fact that this guy is 40 an dnever saw a live steam engine makes them that much more amazing.


I shouldn't read so much my brain is full but I grabbed a volume and found this little chart in it. These are the freight car / milage /locomotive counts. For Canadian railways as of 1987. This came from The Railway's of Canada by Jim Lotz and Keith MacKenzie.


    Canada's Railways. Miles Loco's Cars

    Canadian National Railways 34,220 3272 94,133
    Canadian Pacific Railways 15,500 1200 58,000
    BC Rail 1,389 103 10,000
    Ontario Northland Railway 754 34 1,060
    Dominion Atlantic Railway 277 - -
    Cartier Railway Company 260 50 1,315
    Esquimalt and Nanaimo RY 195 - -
    Toronto Hamilton and Buffalo RY 110 17 608
    White Pass and Yukon Railway 110 23 450
    BC Hydro Railway 104 20 264
    Greater Winnipeg Water District RY 97 6 130
    Devco Railway 88 16 635
    Roberville and Saguenay Railway 54 14 193
    Canada Gulf and Terminal RY 30 1 -
    Napierville Junction Railway 28 2 29
    Essex Terminal Railway 24 6 5
    Grand River Railway 16 - -



Included in CN's miliage is their US lines DW&P CV and GTW
Also by 1987 TH&B Grand River railway and Dominion Atlantic were owned by CPR but they keep the numbers separate from their own( these lines still exist on paper )


US railroads with miliage in Canada as of Jan 1987

    Conrail 328 miles 2.4% of rail miles in Canada
    Norfolk and Western 322 miles 2.1% " " " " "
    C&O 201 miles 1.2 % " " " " "
    Burlington Northern 181 miles .72% " " " " "
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 3, 2005 9:17 PM
Evenin’ Guys!

For anyone interested in the Nickel Plate (NP) check out this URL: http://www.nkphts.org/history.html
It’s a keeper. May not answer your question, Ted, regarding being the last RR in steam, but there’s a wealth of info to browse through.

There is a “place” for N-scale in the hobby and all one has to do is visit the San Diego Model Railroad Museum in Balboa Park to see perhaps the largest N layout anywhere. It is absolutely stunning in scope and detail. I last saw it in 1988 and presume it is still there. The portable layout that I photographed while in KCity in September with Pete was a marvelous thing to behold. I’ll have to Post those pix (again) on Sunday Photo Posting Day!.

My “ideal” scale is S; 1:64. Just love the size and find it to be “just right,” even moreso as eyesight and dexterity with the fingers is on the wane. Unfortunately there are so many “down sides” to it, which I’ve chronicled several times on this thread. Why HO [?] Selection, availability and price – just about covers it. I found everything I wanted for the Can-Am in relatively short order. Couldn’t say that with S. What I wound up with for the S Capades fits my scheme (7x8 ft small layout w/three train sets) quite well and finally has quenched my desire for that size model train.

I seriously doubt that there will be an operating N scale in the Haus, however, never say never. A friend of mine recently gave me two sets of N trains – virtually unused and boxed. Hmmmmmm. He had over a dozen sets, unopened – and get this – his wife “told him” to get rid of ‘em. Argggggggh (on several counts!) <Good grief!>

My next venture, if there is to be one, will be a subway. I’m really leaning towards construction of a subway running beneath the Can-Am layout. It won’t have any interface at all with the Can-Am, just want to utilize that “under the board” space for something other than dust. I figure with some “openings” here and there between the curtained off underside area, it should look pretty “cool.” Thinking of 0-gauge, but availability will come into play. If I find something suitable in HO, then that’s what I’ll get. About 6 or 7 years ago, while in a friend’s hobby store, I nearly purchased a great looking O-gauge subway set – I think it was made by MTH. Was a great looking set …..

Okay – I’m outta here – Leon the Night Man has the bar!

So, whadillhave [?]

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, November 3, 2005 5:50 PM
Hi everybody, just checking in for a after rush hour pick-me-up. I guess a Crown and soda is a good place to start, Tom Enjoyed the added Budd promotional material involving the New Haven passenger corridor. Hey, wasn't the Nickel Plate one of the last Roads to retire steam? I recall somewhere reading of those beautiful Lima Berkshires (2-8-4) having been one of the last sizeable steam orders on any R.R. Well, Rob, you've done it again. No, not another wisdom tooth, the books to peak our curiosity on some fairly esoteric feeder lines, etc.[tup]

CM3, ditto for your reference books information. The W.P. must've been busy in the shops converting the Budds for proper electrical circuitry to activate signals properly. Surprise, surprise! The only worse "rude awakening" I can think of would be jumping off the Geep 9 over a trestle. You are so right about choices for wayside industry on model Pikes. Anything as ambitious as minning operations would be prohibitive for most layouts. Proportion is maybe the most negleted consideration but, on the other hand; "colors are made for taste." N gauge surely is a "life saver" for folks wanting maximum operation with limited space requirements. I'm thinking of a parameter shelf N gauge in my music room.

There are many stories of "dirty tricks" that occur among road crews. One I heard was from a retired Pennsy engineer. He claimed that when double heading the grades approaching the "horeshoe" curve, the Fireman in the first K-4 was upset with the 2nd loco cab "dragging their feet." He relieved himself on the coal shovel and at the tightest segment of the curve, "let fly." Its probably true as he wasn't one to exaggerate otherwise.

Westcoast S, great info. all around. Good to see ya again.[tup] Its really neat how Tom's excerpts and your own "dove tail" together making for a: "total greater than the sum of its' parts." That (in my opinion) is what seperates "Our" Place from so many other choices. This alone is good reason for participating on a regular basis.[tup] Okay, must "ride the rods" for now, happy rails all.
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Posted by siberianmo on Thursday, November 3, 2005 4:52 PM
Afternoon Gents!

trolleyboy Rob Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:46:46 and 15:06:52

Another mid-day Inclusive Post! Now that’s the way to do it. [tup]

Those RR’s you mentioned just followed the path created by so many others. I’m not astute enough to know the “inner reasons” for bankruptcies and mergers, but when it came to just the passenger end of things (and that’s what my Fallen Flags focus on) there was no way they could carry on. That’s a story in and of its self ….. what a mess, really.

Good info on those books, too! Where in the world do you find the time to keep up with all of this [?] I’m still disappointed about that book on BC Rail that didn’t pan out - but if it hadn’t have been for you, I’d never known it existed.

When it comes to the temperatures either where you are or here, warm weather in November is a plus no matter how you look at it. Sure, it’s hardly what we’re accustomed to, but I’ll take it …. Short sleeves while pickin’ up leaves, that beats being bundled up in frigid temps ….. [tup]

Appreciate your stoppin’ by – as always!

bjdukert Duke Posted: 03 Nov 2005, 14:55:51

There’s a sayin; that goes, “To get a letter, one must write a letter.” Goes back to my time in the service when “mail call” was the thing most of us looked forward to. “To get a visit, one must make a visit,” applies to these Forums. It’s easy to become so wrapped up in a particular “place” that one misses out on quite a bit of good stuff going on elsewhere. One thing many of us ‘round here have concluded is that there is also a heck of a lot of “crap” out there and we do the best we can to keep it outta here.

For me – and speaking just for me – there’s just way too much going on over at the CS to keep up with. Overwhelmed me more than once. But that doesn’t mean, nor should it mean, that the ties cannot be maintained. Make sense?

Appreciate your explanation of the pix. I’ve never experienced that scale in person or in pictures. Looks quite serious. Now let’s see – there’s a bit of room on our property for a ……… nah! I think those who oversee this subdivision of ours would have a “conniption” fit for sure! [swg]

Have one on me, Duke and hope you stop by again.

Okay Guys, might be time to send some “Best Wishes” to our friend, earlydiesels Dan You can get an Email off to him simply by researching his name in the “member” block at the top of this screen, or ask me. We miss ya ‘round here, Dan and hope this fight with pneumonia is going in your favor. [tup][tup][tup]

Question of the day: Will we see Nick [C=:-)] tonight [?]

Catch y’all later …….

Tom [4:-)] [oX)]
Happy Railroading! Siberianmo
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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, November 3, 2005 3:06 PM
Some additional info for everyone. I have over the last 6 years picked up a set of books put out by Canadian Branchline Miniatures. They deal with CN's stream operations in the final decade before dieselization.

All have been written by Ian Wilson,the books cover frieght trains passenger trains the stations and the industries served by them,including line drawings of the trackplans in every town small to large that CN touched in Southwestern Ontario , Toronto ( book 6 up comming next year ). Covers everything from North Bay to Windsor on the CNR. If you can find them grab them they are amazing. Great steam shots in colour and B & W and an easy to read way of writing that isn't tech heavy or dollar and cents heavy. Just a good read.


I bring them up because alotof the complicated interchanges with NYC / CP /TH&B etc etc are covered and shown on the line drawings of the towns. That and the steam rosters and car types used on each subdivision.


Books are as follow"s


    Steam at Allandale.... Covers Barie to the near north
    To Stratford Under Steam. Covers Straford Big shops Kitchener/area
    Steam over Palmerston covers central ontario lake Huron area
    Steam Through London..Covers london Brantford down to Windsor
    Steam to the Niagara Frontier,, Covers Buffalo to Toronto



Finally this year or next he will do Toronto the shops the trains the facilities etc.The first two are now out of print but copies do surface. they really are well done and worth the read.


Rob
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Posted by bjdukert on Thursday, November 3, 2005 2:55 PM
Afternoon all and thank you for the kind words about my pics.

The ones that are ridden are 1 ½” scale and also live steam. It is a steam meet in Apex,N.C. that I go to every year in Oct and someday hope to go to the one in the spring as well. I have a friend that has a 4-4-2 Atlantic that I have known since the days I was stationed at Dover AFB in the late 60’s and you can see a pic of him on it. He is known in his circle of friends (which are many) as Grandfather Steam and he has forgotten more about steam than most know now and is more than willing to help anyone out if there is a problem.
The other pics of the Berkshire were taken here in the lower peninsula of Mich between Bay City and Grayling. It is the 1225 that did a fan trip and I was told about it that week and it was a last minute decision to make the trip up to see her,sure glad I did. You don’t realize how big those machines are until you get up close,not to mention the smell of coal.

Well that’s about it so I think I will mossy on back to the CS and see what is happening there. Thanks again for the kind words and the hospitalty.
Talk to you later

Duke

"Don't take a wooden nickel,because it isn't worth a dime" by my Dad

"There are only 3 things you need out of life:A gentle grade,the wind in your face,and cinders in your hair.....But keep an eye on the water glass!" Jack Evans

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Posted by trolleyboy on Thursday, November 3, 2005 2:46 PM
Good afternoon Tom.I think tea only for me but I will leave a stippend for a round for all the fish and chippers tonight I think I'll ask the chef to do an omelett for me ( still not able to quite chew on anything hard quite yet[:(][:(!] )


Tom & Dave Nice info on the RDC's. Great stories, as I have said before slowley but surley I'm learning about the western roads. I had always thought that the Nickle Plate would have gone on forever. It and the Wabash and The Monon though small always struck me as finacially frugel roads. Though they did manage to get consumed by the N&W.

I may be wrong but I thought that I had read somewher that the Nickel Plate passenger trains to and from Buffalo were met by the NYC Empire State and thus accross southwestern Ontario to Detroit. I may have made this up though perhaps someone with more intimate NKP / NYC knowledge can confirm or deny.[?]

Yup Tom the alternative is non-negotiable. I am however healing up nicley and will soon be back to my beer swilling self ( least her in the either )[;)][:p][:D]I ended up missing the flick. Strictly speaking I saw the beginning and end credits.[:0][:(!] What was in between is still a mystery to me[|)][zzz]


CM3 Another nice all encompasing post [tup] Hopefully that train crew had the decency of having some "fortified" hot coffee or hot chocolat for you. thanks for the tip on the TH&B in craftsman. I had stopped buying it three years ago, it was starting to become to ad driven ( really as all magazines have ) Smithville not all that far from me, most likely a good portion of the trackage they disscussed there is still intact. The TH&B mainline is still there CPR to Welland and Buffalo now. CN's cayuga sub and Dunnwville subs that cut through there are mostly gone now . Trilliam rail a local shortline still uses bits of the Cayuga to interchange with CN but it's fairly dormant through there now.

I've seen the Hornby live steam adds too. Somehow it unsettles me a bit. My understanding is that it's strictly a heating element similar to a kettle in the boiler,but warmth and water around a layout nay be puching the envelope a tad.[:0] At least it's not burning butane or something more explosive.[xx(]


Ted Solar power eh[?] What is the old saying about people who live in glass houses[;)] Seriously though not a bad idea at all perhaps a small wind generator hooked up to your house as well. Florida is known for Sun and Wind. We have had unseasonably warm weather lately 60's during the day. I'll take that in november the alternative is unthinkable[:0][:(!][V]



That should catch me back up into the loop for now I'll try to pop back in with something more pertanent later.

Rob

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