Most of CN and CP's rebuilt GP9/7s also retained the blister, although the grilles and fan hatch were plated over.
Anyway back to streamliners, in the late 1940s a railroad ordered a series of distinctive cars unique to that railroad as part of a re-launching of one of their trains. Never financially successful, the train was cancelled well before the creation of Amtrak. Despite their distinctiveness, the railroad now had no use for these cars so it sold them to another system which was far more interested in passenger traffic. There they continued in operation until a government order forced their withdrawl. Name the two railroads and the car type. And although it happened within the past 50 years I would also like the reason behind the order that forced the cars' final withdrawl.
Greetings from Alberta
-an Articulate Malcontent
Other than the ex-DSS&A AS616, the first Soo units with DBs came with the purchase of the Milwaukee. GP9 2554, rebuilt after a wreck with a carbody from an SP GP35, had the blister but it didn't do anything.
Rob and All:
Your response was very informational. I had a previous topic on the SOO regarding their locomotives and DB's. The SOO did not need DB's so their locomotives were ordered without them. Even the GE's did not have them.
Ed Burns
SD70M-2 Dude has the answer.
Soo Line and WC had MU connections (rear only) on all of their F3A/F7A/FP7A and "road freight" Alco FA-1 units. The single F3B and the 10 F7Bs (6 pass, 4 frt) were the only units of any make with MU on both ends. WC also had three EMD switchers with rear-end ony MU and 16 point throttles that would only MU with each other.
DSS&A had cab-end MU on its BLW DRS-6-6-1500s and both-end MU on the ex-BLH demonstrator AS616. All but one of DSS&A's RS-1s had MU, though two came from Alco without it.
Adding MU to the GP7s and SD9 was enormously cost-effective, allowing the closing of a remote shop just for the GP7s. None of Soo or WCs Alco or Baldwin Road Switchers of any model got MU.
The DSS&A AS616 was the only unit on any of the three that had dynamic brakes. Soo and WC's ex-demo FP7s had it removed before entering Soo service.
SD70M-2DudeOk I'll bite since no one else seems willing to, MU connections (3/4/5 hoses + 24 pin jumper and handrail opening)?
That was the obvious thing at the beginning ... but it wouldn't explain the Baldwins, which IIRC were air-throttle equipped (there were a few with 'compatible' control, but not many)
I suggested just the hoses (to get the brakes to work as if the units were MUed without the throttle control) but that wasn't it, either.
Ok I'll bite since no one else seems willing to, MU connections (3/4/5 hoses + 24 pin jumper and handrail opening)?
rcdryeHere are before and after pictures (and it's not paint) of SD9 2381.
Look on either side of the pilot. The new pieces were added shortly after the merger.
The SD9 in the upper photo is missing some stuff that is clearly on the same SD9 in the lower photo. There's a reason there is only one air hose in the top photo. There's a change in the handrail on the end as well.
Looks to me as if there might be arrangements to implement 'train air' braking on the units when dead-in-train, independent (pun recognized but not intended) of any Baldwin MU system incompatible with the binary eight-notch Woodward governor control system. Is there a technical reference on how this would be best done?
Think operation. The Soo's GP7s, as well as their Baldwins and Alcos had to be handled dead-in-train to and from Shoreham.
Here are before and after pictures (and it's not paint) of SD9 2381.
http://www.canadianrailwayobservations.com/mar2021.jpg
Snow plows?
Actually, the DSS&A's corporate structure survived. According to the late Wallace W. Abbey, the DSS&A's post-bankruptcy structure gave the new company some tax advantages. So I'll drop a DSS&A question: DSS&A's early road-switchers from Baldwin and Alco had one feature that no Soo/WC road switchers had until the GP9s were delivered in 1954. Soo/WC road locomotives all had it, but not on the cab end. Soo later retrofitted the GP7s, and WC the SD9, but not the Baldwins or Alcos.
Since there has to be a surviving company, I will say that the surviving entity is MStP&SSM, formally renamed Soo Line.
WC didn't survive. The name was re-used by Ed Ellis when he bought the lines that became the new WC in the 1990s.
WC did contribute the most up-to-date shop in the system, at North Fond Du Lac.
If I remember correctly, the WC continued to exist as a corporate entity to be formally merged later.
The modern Soo Line emerged from the 1961 Merger of the Minneapolis St. Paul & Sault Ste Marie Railroad, the Wisconsin Central Railroad, and the Duluth, South Shore & Atlantic Railway, all of which were partially owned by Canadian Pacific. The MStP&SSM and WC were operated as one railroad, but were separate corporations with different boards. DSS&A shared some facilities with each of them. Which company actually survived the merger?
We have a winner! rrdrye, your question.
The NYC&StL (Nickel Plate) was merged into the N&W, with the N&W's corporate structure surviving. The N&W also leased the Wabash, the Akron Canton & Youngstown (which continued to operate semi-independantly) and the Pittsburgh & West Virginia. Also purchased was the Sandusky Line of the PRR, (which was actually owned by a PRR subsidiary) to tie the pieces together.
N&W operated passenger trains into LaSalle St. station in Chicago until the ex-NKP trains were discontinued. Ex-Wabash trains ran to Dearborn St. station.
Sorry for the delay. Hard to believe that this comes under the 50-year rule. In the N&W merger of October 16, 1964, which was the only railroad whose separate corporate existence ended with the merger on that date?
still missing the edit button, so forgive misspellings please.
if CSSSBH doesn't want to pose a question, I'll come up with one.
Would like to defer to our Souith Shore friend, since he had more detailed information.
That's them. Several other railroads bought SD-based passenger-equipped locomotives before SP, but most of those had moved into freight service by the early 1970s.
SP's SDP45s were delivered in early 1967 to replace the last of the PAs on SP's remaining passenger trains. The few remaining E-Units were retired after the Lark and Golden State went in 1968. The SDP45s often operated singly or in consists with SP's FP7s and F7Bs. SP continued to lease them to Amtrak after May 1, 1971, usually in pairs on the quad-weekly Daylight "short train" from Oakland to LA (OK, for a while, San Diego, but the SDP45's didn't run through), and on the tri-weekly Cascade/Daylight "long train" from Seattle to LA(San Diego). The tri-weekly Sunset and "San Francisco Zephyr" got FP7s most of the time. Since SP still owned the units, they were occasionally used as part of the Oakland freight pool, but their 60:17 passenger gearing was a mismatch for the 62:15 freight standard found on SP's SD45s and other power.
The first two that went into the commute pool were 3200 and 3205 in 1973. As Amtrak cut in their own SDP40Fs more of the SDP45s followed. The last of the Trainmasters was retired when brand-new GP40P-2s 3197-3199 joined the pool in 1975. The rest of the pool were the 11 dual-control GP9s (3000-3010, later 3186-3196) and a pair of freshly rebuilt SD9Es 4450 and 4451, carrying numbers once worn by Daylight 4-8-4s. With minor upgrading of traction motor blowers, an SDP45 could accelerate faster than a Train Master. CalTrain used them until its own equipment arrived in the mid-1980s.
The SDP45s were very reliable and a pair of them could just about launch a train out of a station. The SDP40Fs that replaced them suffered from above-the-frame water tanks, resulting in "Surf's up" conditions on curves when the tanks were partially empty, and several derailments and severe speed restrictions. Amtrak resorted to ex-SP FP7s mixed with ex-UP E9s until the F40PHs took over.
SP 3200-3209 were SDP45's that worked in general passenger service out of Oakland. They usually operated singly in that service. As mentioned above, they later replaced Train Masters in the Peninsula commute pool.
I thin you may be referring to the SP, and they also replaced the FM Trainmasters in SF Suburban service.
So here's some more late 1960s passenger stuff. About the same time the last E9s were built, several railroads bought modified freight units for passenger service, with the idea that they could just join the freight pools after train-offs came through. One railroad bought 10 such units in 1967 to replace one of the last large groups of Alco PAs. These 10 not only remained in passenger service until 1985, they also replaced another group of non-EMD locomotives during their service lives. All of this on a railroad not known for being particularly passenger-friendly.
CN bought a lot of premium US cars in the mid-to-late 1960s, including some for the GTW. Among the cars assigned to the Mohawk were some ex-UP Pullman-Standard coaches similar to the ones PC later bought for Broadway Limited service. Even in the east it took B&M's refusal to continue after the loss of the mail contracts to shut down the Montrealer/Washingtonian and Ambassador.
Quick notes: In the middle picture we are in downtown Toronto, Union Station grounds, you can see the O'Keefe Centre. O'Keefe was a brewing company, quite popular and had been around forever but got swallowed up by Molson's.
Also notice the Montreal Trust building...huge trust company, got swallowed up by Scotiabank, then all shares of Montreal Trust purchased by Computershare, an Australian company.
NDG would remember these things. How things have changed. We have lost so much diversity and choice in these things. A person's persona and identity went along with where they banked and what beer they drank and other choices in the marketplace. I suppose micro breweries are doing somewhat ok, but is their goal to get bought up by a major? Generally society has become big box stores and everything McDonalized.
In any case the Tempo was a pretty brave and brazen move...CN sure gave passenger service one heck of a try throughout the sixties across the board, however, ultimately to no avail.
Correct Mr. rcdrye. Nice to mention the GTW Mohawk.
I rode the Tempo many times...I always liked the diffused lighting in the cars using metal vertically hung metallic squares. Later saw the same thing in the library at the Mining School.
CN's Tempo trains with coaches from Hawker-Siddeley (Cnadian Car and Foundry), powered by HEP-equipped MLW RS18's in a modified CN Scheme of red with a gray cab. Toronto-Windsor, Toronto-Sarnia, with most trips on the Windsor leg. Some of the Tempo cars were used on the joint Amtrak/Via International before sale of some of the cars to ANSCO for Winter Park Ski Train service. CN re-acquired the CN cars for use on the former Algoma Central in 2009.
The Tempos followed GTW's more or less successful Mohawk, introduced in 1967 on a fast Chicago-Detroit schedule. By the time the Mohawk's luster had worn off, the Tempos were still fairly popular.
Ok! Here's a question ready to go.
The year is 1968. Intercity passenger service has been receding for years. Much of what is left is a shadow of it's former self. Railroads generally cannot get out from intercity fast enough. It is a bad year for those of us that can remember what we had.
One Railroad decided to buck the trend. Out of no-where, a new intercity passenger service is introduced. 25 brand new cars are built. 5 club/galley cars, 5 coach cafe cars and 15 coaches that seat 80.
6 locomotives are extensively rebuilt are assigned to this train, with an unique non standard paint scheme for the locomotives and a different look for the cars. New innovations too!...coaches had large overhead luggage racks eliminating the need for a baggage car, the cafe and club cars eliminated the need for a diner. Also newer concepts such as HEP, all electric and outside disc brakes on the cars. They looked very good with those disc brakes! 5 trips a day to one city, 1 trip to another. The train sets and service are given a new name and marketed extensively.
Fast forward 20 years and much of the equipment can be found newly arrived on a very famous train in the USA. Not the locomotives however.
Full circle another 20 years and they are back with the original owner on yet another somewhat less famous train but back in service nontheless.
What is the name of the train and the service rolled out in 1968? What 3 cities were the trains start/end points?
What were the rebuilt locomotives? What was the new colour scheme?
What was the famous train they were sold to?
Where are they now?
daveklepper Hey K4, where is the next question?
Hey K4, where is the next question?
Sorry 'bout that. If anyone has a question please post, spring break had me tied down for a bit.
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