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Classic Train Questions Part Deux (50 Years or Older)

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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, April 11, 2012 1:28 PM

This what I'd found on Louisana & Arkansas :
http://www.louisiana-destinations.com/hope-arkansas-railroads.htm

 

Most of what I'd based the question and answer on were from the railroads exhibits at the Hope Visitor Center & Museum. And in the case of Kiamichi & KCS, the original L&A from personal observation of current operations. Also cross checking as best I could from web sources.

       Not sure but I would speculate that many towns named Fulton got the name from Robert Fulton the steamboat developer.  Fulton, Ar was a steamboat landing on the Red River.

Thx IGN

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, April 12, 2012 8:08 PM

If I'm in the hunt here, then I check to Johnny.   Wink

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by Deggesty on Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:07 AM

Im sorry to be so late in posing a new question, but personal matters have kept my attention away from the thread (I just caught up with all my email this morning).

In the 1950 winter season, three trains provided daily one-night out (each train ran every third day) passenger service between Chicago and Miam, over three different routes. Two of the trains had identical equipment Chicago-Miami, and the equipment of the the third one was different. Which two had identical equipment, and what was the advantage of having identical equipment? And, how was it that the third one could be operated with only one set of equipment? (I could pose another part, but it might give the answer to the first part.)

Johnny

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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, April 22, 2012 2:30 PM

Johnny, I believe the City of Miami was the only one that could be operated with but one set of equipment. This was possible because there was about a two hour turnaround time between the arrival of the southbound train in Miami and its scheduled departure back north to Chicago. A late night arrival in Chicago made it possible to run the same equipment back south the next morning.

The schedules of the other two trains, the Southwind and Dixie Flagler made two sets of equipment each necessary because they departed Miami before the arrival of the other one from the north. I honestly don't remember the SW and DF having identical equipment but if any of the three trains did it must have been these two. IIRC the one time I rode the DF its consist was all stainless cars. I rode the SW twice and both times I remember its cars were Tuscan red with possibly one or a very few stainless cars mixed in.

Mark

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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, April 22, 2012 7:27 PM

KCSfan

Johnny, I believe the City of Miami was the only one that could be operated with but one set of equipment. This was possible because there was about a two hour turnaround time between the arrival of the southbound train in Miami and its scheduled departure back north to Chicago. A late night arrival in Chicago made it possible to run the same equipment back south the next morning.

The schedules of the other two trains, the Southwind and Dixie Flagler made two sets of equipment each necessary because they departed Miami before the arrival of the other one from the north. I honestly don't remember the SW and DF having identical equipment but if any of the three trains did it must have been these two. IIRC the one time I rode the DF its consist was all stainless cars. I rode the SW twice and both times I remember its cars were Tuscan red with possibly one or a very few stainless cars mixed in.

Mark

Mark, you are right that the CM was the only one that could turn around in Miami the same day, and return to Chicago. Imagine the strain of getting this train into Miami so it would not be late leaving.

As to the other two, the equipment that came in on the SW could well leave as the DF the next day, and the equipment that came in on the DF could leave as the SW after two nights in Miami, as the CM arrived and left the day after the DF arrived.

The following is from the February, 1950 Guide.

Leave Chicago as the DF: 2/1; arrive Miami 2/2; leave Miami as the SW 2/4; arrive Chicago 2/5; leave Chicago as the SW 2/6; arrive Miami 2/7; leave Miami as the DF 2/8; arrive Chicago 2/9; leave Chicago 2/10 as the DF.

You are right; it cannot be done with only two sets for the DF/SW arrangement; a third set is necessary; I had not worked the cycle out thoroughly. Another set is necessary, which would have begun its cycle out of Chicago as the DF 2/4.

Leave Chicago as the SW 2/3; arrive Miami 2/4; leave Miami 2/5 as the DF; arrive Chicago 2/6; leave Chicago 2/7 as the DF, arrive Miami 2/8; leave Miami 2/10 as the SW, arrive Chicago 2/11; leave Chicago as the SW 2/12; arrive Miami 2/13; leave Miami 2/14 as the DF; arrive Chicago 2/15; leave Chicago 2/16 as the DF 

By using the same capacity equipment into/out of Miami for the two trains, only three sets were necessary to maintain the service.

As it is, no one else even rose to the bait, so you have the honor for the next question.

Johnny

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:14 PM

Um...you guys have us somewhat confused.   What makes the Dixie Flagler and Southwind equipment similar enough to be interchanged?     The DF was C&EI-L&N-NC&STL-AB&C-ACL-FEC; the SW the PRR-L&N-ACL-FEC.

They WERE inagurated as "companion /cooperative" trains, but ran over different routes with differing equipment.

Please clarify.   Maybe I misunderstood.

abd

Director - ACL & SAL HS

 

 

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by Deggesty on Sunday, April 22, 2012 10:16 PM

FlyingCrow

Um...you guys have us somewhat confused.   What makes the Dixie Flagler and Southwind equipment similar enough to be interchanged?     The DF was C&EI-L&N-NC&STL-AB&C-ACL-FEC; the SW the PRR-L&N-ACL-FEC.

They WERE inagurated as "companion /cooperative" trains, but ran over different routes with differing equipment.

Please clarify.   Maybe I misunderstood.

abd

Director - ACL & SAL HS

 

 

 

FlyingCrow

Um...you guys have us somewhat confused.   What makes the Dixie Flagler and Southwind equipment similar enough to be interchanged?     The DF was C&EI-L&N-NC&STL-AB&C-ACL-FEC; the SW the PRR-L&N-ACL-FEC.

They WERE inagurated as "companion /cooperative" trains, but ran over different routes with differing equipment.

Please clarify.   Maybe I misunderstood.

abd

Director - ACL & SAL HS

In the 1950 winter season, the sleepers operated on the two trains were all heavyweight, and the coaches were streamlined--and all were, according to the ACL representation either 18 seats (one per train) or 52 seats. The observation and diners ran between Chcago and Jacksonville, and FEC provided the Jacksonville-Miami cars for these services. There was also a Nashville-Miami sleeper on the DF, and a Louisville Miami sleeper on the SW, both having the same capacity.

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Monday, April 23, 2012 9:38 AM

As a followup, around 1960, I was on the northbound East Coast or West Coast Champion, en route from Orflando to New York in an ACL roomette.   This was after the FEC strike, and the East Coast ran via Orlando and the conection to the Seabord at Arundale and the use of the Seabord Miami Station.   Between Sanford and Jacksonville, the car I was in was bad-ordered.   I forget what th eproblem was, air conditioning or a flat wheel, I do not remember.  (I spent most of that leg of the trip in the diner and lounge car, not in my roomette.   Before reaching Jacksonville, the porter told me to gather up my things from the roomette and either sit out the switching move in the lounge or in the station.   I decided to watch the proceedings from a standing position on the platform.   Low and behold the substitute sleeper had Seabord on the letterboard, black on stainless background instead of the white or silver Atlantic Coast Line on a purple background.  So I road a Sebord sleeper on the ACL main to Richmond  and then NY before the SAL merger!

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Posted by KCSfan on Monday, April 23, 2012 1:44 PM

In order to answer the last question I checked the actual schedules of the CM, SW and DF and was surprised to find they differed. I've been wrong all these years in thinking all three trains arrived at and departed from Chicago and Miami at the same times of day.

On to a new question. In the 1950's what was the longest stretch of operating dual gauge (3' and standard) trackage in the US? Name the railroad and the end points of the dual gauge line.

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Monday, April 23, 2012 7:30 PM

Alamosa - Antonito 

D&RGW

Tongue Tied

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by KCSfan on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:11 AM

FlyingCrow

Alamosa - Antonito 

D&RGW

Tongue Tied

Right on Buck. The next question is yours.

Mark

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Posted by daveklepper on Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:45 AM

The only other significant stretch of dual-gauge trackage was in Salida until the Monarch branch was standard-gauged.   And possibly downtown Los Angeles where the Pacific Eectric and Los Angeles Railways shared a common wire on three-rail in-street trackage.   Otherwise just yard tracks, like Port Au Basque Newfoundland, where CN had some standard gauge tracks to receive the MDT refers and CN box cars off the car ferry before transfer to Newfy narrow-gauge trucks.  Also, I am not sure when the interurbans out of Denver were abandoned, and one involved dual-gauge tracks I think both in Denver and in Golden.  I think Collorado Southern's isolated line to Leadville, connecting onlyi with the D&RGW, had already been standard gauged.

I rode Alamosa-Durango three times each way.   Also notable was the onlyi dual-gauge wye in Antonito.  Such a wye involves one switch that does not involve switching tracks, merely changing from a center rail off one side to a center rail of the other with a short stretch of four rails, each center rail ending in a regulr switch point.

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Posted by KCSfan on Friday, May 4, 2012 6:15 AM

While waiting for Buck Dean's next question I'll throw out a quickie just to generate some activity on this thread. In the mid 1950's and for some years afterward there were two railroads whose reporting marks spelled words that rhymed with one another. What were these two roads and what slogan was used by each?

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Saturday, May 5, 2012 6:37 PM

Yeah, Buck apparently slipped on a bar of soap, conked his head and got amnesia...sorry to all...I forgot it was my turn!   Hmm

The answer to this question of course is the WAG and TAG

Wellsville, Addison & Galeton...The Sole Leather Line

Tennessee, Alabama & Georgia ... The Tag Route.

 

 

 

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by KCSfan on Sunday, May 6, 2012 7:16 AM

Good to hear from you Buck and you're right again with the WAG and TAG.

Mark

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 8:07 PM

Ok, more fun with reporting marks then.   The RR or RR related name(s) please

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.  

Have FUN!!!  Stick out tongue

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by SHKarlson on Tuesday, May 8, 2012 11:40 PM

Do the San Diegans count as streamliners?

Stephen Karlson, DeKalb, Illinois

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 9:39 AM

The San Diegans operated as all-stramlined trains under AT&SF with all stainless steel lightweight equipment and Alco PA;s of F unnits.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 10:08 AM

Reporting Mark answers:

1. BAR - Bangor & Aroostook

4. TOE - Texas, Oklahoma & Eastern

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 9, 2012 12:44 PM

FlyingCrow

Ok, more fun with reporting marks then.   The RR or RR related name(s) please

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.  

Have FUN!!!  Stick out tongue

# 2  ART American Refridgerated Transit (?)

Thx IGN

 

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Thursday, May 10, 2012 7:43 PM

Well.... so far we have 3 out of 5 correct.    If no other guesses by Sunday night, I'll pick the winner; answer the rest; and move on.

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by FlyingCrow on Saturday, May 12, 2012 10:08 PM

hmmm......no other tries.   OK.....the last question is two railroads.   There's your hint   Confused

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by FlyingCrow on Sunday, May 13, 2012 7:19 PM

Ok, CSS wins with 2 answers....the complete correct answers are:

 

#1.    Establishment for spiritous beverages.    BAR   Bangor & Aroostock

#2     Rembrandt , Monet and DaVinci practiced this.  ART   American Refrigerator Transit

#3    Possible New Jersey inhabitant nickname.  SAL   Seaboard Air Line

#4   Ouch! I stubbed it!  TOE    Texas Oklahoma & Eastern

#5   A somewhat embarrassing observation.     Ok...2 roads   IC UP     you know those!!!  Ick!

 

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by daveklepper on Sunday, May 20, 2012 9:57 AM

next question please!

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Posted by jasandros on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 1:47 PM

My Uncle served as a Porter on the Seaboard Airline and usually worked a Train between Portsmouth and Raleigh.although he later transferred to the Palmland. ....not sure which Train he rode between Portsmouth and Raleigh but it arrived southbound daily into Norlina in the early evening. My Aunt would drive my sister and I to meet him so that she could give him his lunch during the short stop at the Depot. I regularly rode the Palmland between my grandmothers and my home in New York. I have always loved that particular Train. I still love Trains and now model big G-trains in my backyard. 

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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 3:10 AM

The train probably was the Tidewater, which carried through cars, both coaches and sleepers from Portsmouth to Florida and to Altanta and Birmingham.   Northbound, I  road it in coach overnight from Southern Pines to Portsmouth, and returned that evening leaving Portsmouth about 4:30 PM and getting back to Southern Pines around 11pm.   I imagine that the through cars were swtiched at Hamlet to the Silver Comet to Birmingham, and to the Palmland to Jacksonville or perhaps the Silver Star to MIami and St. Pete.   It was all lightweight equipment except for head-end cars when I rode it, but I understand modernized heavyweight and American Flyers showed up during periods of heavy passenger traffic when the consists of the three Silver streamlines were expanded.  I was a 2nd Lt. at Fort Bragg responsible for a mobile radio and TV station and needed an FFC 1st Class operators lisence and needed to take the FCC exam in Norfolk.   Passed the exam.   Would have disgraced MIT if I had not.   Summer 1955.

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 10:04 AM

My apologies for the delay.  This question should be relatively easy.  Clearing Yard has been in existence in its current layout for about 100 years.  What feature distinguishes it from all other hump yards in North America?

The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul
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Posted by narig01 on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:00 AM

A guess: Clearing is a double track hump?

Thx IGN

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, May 30, 2012 11:04 AM

daveklepper

The train probably was the Tidewater, which carried through cars, both coaches and sleepers from Portsmouth to Florida and to Altanta and Birmingham.   Northbound, I  road it in coach overnight from Southern Pines to Portsmouth, and returned that evening leaving Portsmouth about 4:30 PM and getting back to Southern Pines around 11pm.   I imagine that the through cars were swtiched at Hamlet to the Silver Comet to Birmingham, and to the Palmland to Jacksonville or perhaps the Silver Star to MIami and St. Pete.   It was all lightweight equipment except for head-end cars when I rode it, but I understand modernized heavyweight and American Flyers showed up during periods of heavy passenger traffic when the consists of the three Silver streamlines were expanded.  I was a 2nd Lt. at Fort Bragg responsible for a mobile radio and TV station and needed an FFC 1st Class operators lisence and needed to take the FCC exam in Norfolk.   Passed the exam.   Would have disgraced MIT if I had not.   Summer 1955.

Dave, the only Tidewater that I remember was one that ran northbound only from Jacksonville to Portsmouth; 17 & 18 did not have, so far as I know, a name. The through cars Portsmouth-Atlanta and Jacksonville were switched from/to 17 & 18 at either Norlina or Raleigh; there were variations on the switching points--in February, 1950, 17 & 18 ran only Portsmouth-Norlina; 7 & 8 (the Sunland )carried the Atlanta cars between Norlina and Hamlet; the Silver Comet carried them between Hamlet and Atlanta; the Portsmouth-Jacksonville cars were carried by the Sunland Norlina-Jacksonville. In December, 1965, 17 & 18 ran Portsmouth-Raleigh, where the cars were switched.

Johnny

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Posted by daveklepper on Thursday, May 31, 2012 5:20 AM

I recall 17 and 18 as called the Tidewater when I rode it in 1955.   I don't recall any other Seaboard passsenger train in and out of Portsmouth at the time.  But we agree it was 17 and 18 that are the answer to the question.   I could be mistaken, and I don't have the timetables I used at the time.   The train may only have run separately north of Noralina, but the passenger timetable showed it as a through train to Jacksonville, with probably the same station times as the Palmland.   Someone should find a 1950-1956 era Seaboard pasenger timetable and answer the question.   I probably slept through the switching at Noralina in both directions!

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