The other (Utah Central Railway) was merged. Not the interurban. But I'll keep on looking.
Alabama Central Railroad, Alabama Central Railway
One is current (I think) and one was abandoned in 1961.
Those are the two I was looking for Dave, The Alabama Central Ry. had only 6 miles of trackage and the 16.2 mile Alabama Central RR wasn't much longer. Let's have the next question.
Mark
The New York Central's Empire State Express had four destinations under the Empire State Express name, with one reached by a dedicated across-the-platform connection to and from a defined Empire State Express connection. What were the four destinations during the history of the this train?
daveklepper The New York Central's Empire State Express had four destinations under the Empire State Express name, with one reached by a dedicated across-the-platform connection to and from a defined Empire State Express connection. What were the four destinations during the history of the this train?
Buffalo - Niagra Falls - Cleveland - Detroit/Mackinac City
I amy have to give you the award, but Niagra Falls was not a destination that I was thinking about/ Was the connecting train really marketed as a connection specifically to and from the ESE?
When the train was heavyweight, it ran only NY-GCT - Buffalo. Ab out the first year of lightweight Budd equipment operaton (inaugurated on Pearl Harbor Day!) these remained the end-points. But equipment utilization during WWII was the main reason it was extended further west in two secitons, to Cleveland and Detroit, and these extensions were popular enough for retention after WWII.
The arrival a specific type of equipment made a fourth destination possible, but was not as succesful as hoped, and was discontiniued several years before the ESE itself was discontiinued.
Can you name that destination and possibly even the equipment?
daveklepper I amy have to give you the award, but Niagra Falls was not a destination that I was thinking about/ Was the connecting train really marketed as a connection specifically to and from the ESE?
Dave, my 1954 OG shows Niagra Falls as one of the destinations of the ESE. However I believe the Falls was actually reached by a connecting Beeliner from Buffalo.
We obviously should have included New York City since it was the destination the eastbound ESE.
daveklepper The arrival a specific type of equipment made a fourth destination possible, but was not as succesful as hoped, and was discontiniued several years before the ESE itself was discontiinued. Can you name that destination and possibly even the equipment?
This is just a SWAG but could the 4th destination be Hamilton or possibly a through coach pulled by a Beeliner to Watertown, Ogdensburg, Massena or even Bay City.
Iassumed you knew NYC, and the other destination is Boston. The Boston and Albany was the first New York Central Budd RDC "Beelienr" applciation, with Boston - Springfield service, off-peak, one car, inaugurated in October or November 1949. This was successful. Historically, the Empire State Express never had a westbound connection, becausse it was felt this would have to leave Boston too early in the morning. The faster schedules possible with the RDC;s prompted a one-car Budd early morning connection to Albany, whcih lasted several years and had an eastbound evening coumterpart. I think this run was discontinued at the same time as the downtown Albany Srtation was abandoned and the passenger pick-up and drop-of moved to Rennsealaer.
But your suggestions likewise seem to fit the situation. On the train departure board at South Station, the Beeliner was posted as the Empire State Express Connection.
I look forward to your question.
To add to this discussion on the Empire State Express, there were several more destinations the train operated to:- Toledo - the Cleveland section was extended there for awhile in late 1946.- Chicago - In the mid-1960's, the Empire State Express went through a strange metamorphosis in reaction to NYC's determination to reduce and eventually eliminate passenger train miles:
#51 Westbound - (by timetable date):April 1965 - westbound #51 was officially a New York-Cleveland train with through Detroit cars being carried in #351 between Buffalo and Detroit. #351 in the consist listings is shown as an unnamed train, but this is not clarified in the schedules themselves.April 1966 - the Empire State Express is shown as a New York-Cleveland-Chicago schedule with through Detroit cars operating on #351 from Buffalo. Initially, no Chicago equipment is mentioned in the consist listings, but in the October 1966 timetable a Cleveland-Chicago coach is shown. There seems to be no through New York-Chicago through cars.December 1967 - (all train names were abolished, save for the James Whitcomb Riley). #51 becomes an unnamed Buffalo-Chicago overnight train via Cleveland and #351 an overnight Buffalo-Chicago overnight train via Detroit.#50 Eastbound - (by timetable date):April 1965 - eastbound #50 was officially a Detroit-Buffalo-New York train with no Cleveland cars. October 1965 - #50 gains a Chicago-New York sleeper and coach and a Cleveland-New York diner-lounge. These cars were operated in #222, an unnamed Chicago-Buffalo train via Cleveland. In the schedules, #222-50 is shown as one Chicago-New York schedule with the Empire State Express name in the column but in the consist listings the trains are listed separately. This arrangement lasts for one timetable period. April 1966 - #50 reverts to Detroit-Buffalo-New York only and #222 is hooked up to #96, an unnamed Buffalo-New York run. Neither #222 or #96 is shown in the consist listings. October 1966 - #222 is gone and #96 assumes #222's schedule and is now an unnamed Chicago-New York train. #50 becomes a Chicago-New York train operation via Detroit, but the Chicago-Detroit portion runs daily, except Saturday and Detroit-New York is daily. On Saturday, the Chicago-Detroit portion is covered by #366, the Motor City Special, which is now on a Saturday only schedule. There seems to be no through Chicago-New York cars.December 1967 - #50 becomes an unnamed Chicago-Detroit (Ex Saturday night-Sunday Morning) and Detroit-Buffalo (daily) train. Unnamed #366 is still covering the Saturday night-Sunday morning schedule.
Dave, the Boston-Albany connecting service to the Empire State Express you mention was always labeled Beeliner in the timetables even though South Station in Boston may have sub-labeled it as the Empire State Express Connection. This service lasted until 1959, when the train was cut back to a Boston-Springfield operation. That would be gone by 1960.As for connecting trains, there was a Buffalo-Toronto Empire State Express around WWI running via MC, TH&B and CP and was named as such in timetables.Mark, we await your question.
ZephyrOverlandMark, we await your question.
Both Dave and I have asked so many questions lately so I'll defer to someoone else who hasn't had as many opportunities. Anyone who has a question ready jump in and post it.
Next question anyone?
What was the name of the last passenger train that operated out of Key West before the FEC Key West extension was shut down and eventually abandoned because of the 1935 Labor Day hurricane?
My guess would be the Havana Special.
daveklepper My guess would be the Havana Special.
It was the Havana Special. In the last summer of operations before the Labor Day hurricane hit, it was the only Miami-Key West train, operating as an accommodation run between those two points. North of Miami, the train still operated on a "limited" schedule to/from New York Originally, the Havana Special left Miami about 2 in the morning to get to Key West in time for the morning boat connection to Havana. But when it became the only Miami-Key West train, its schedule was modified to leave Miami around 7am, with a late morning arrival in Key West. The northbound train left Key West late in the afternoon for an approximately 9 p.m. arrival in Miami, then operating overnight to Jacksonville.
Dave, you have the next question.
Quick easy one: Era WWII-1950: Name all North American railroads with substantial amounts of RED passenger equipment. Lilke the PRR (Pennsylvania)
Ok I will start with the easy and obvious: Norfolk & Western, Lehigh Valley,Rock Island, Western Maryland(?).
On the minor side (don't know if it counts) Philadelphia's "Red Arrow"
I was going to thru in the Disneyland RR, for laughs. That opened after 1950 after 1950.
Thx Ign
I don't recall the Rock Island having red passenger cars. The ones I remember seeing were the stainless steel streamlined ones and Pullman green heavyweights.
I"ll add the following additional roads: Canadian Pacific - Soo - Pacific Electric and Texas Electric (red and cream).
KCSfan I don't recall the Rock Island having red passenger cars. The ones I remember seeing were the stainless steel streamlined ones and Pullman green heavyweights. I"ll add the following additional roads: Canadian Pacific - Soo - Pacific Electric and Texas Electric (red and cream). Mark
Oops, right after posting the above I realized that I had forgotten to include the Boston & Maine.
Rock Island did have some red bi-levels in suburban service prior to the RTA takeover. Another road to add to the list is Chicago Aurora & Elgin.
Does the "vermlion" red of the Golden State cars count as a Rock Island red?
Also, does the red in Southern Pacific's red-orange-black "Daylight" color scheme count?
I presume that the red letterboards on many stainless cars does not constitute a "substantial amount".
I will admit to not having a good knowledge of Rock Islands passenger cars. When I posted this morn I was looking at a picture of a Rock Island E 6 on the cover of Classic Trains.
Of course I could have been blinded by the "Rockets Red Glare".
Thx IGN
There are a lot more. B&M should hint at another. Yes, Red Arrow does dount, and should hint at two others, pardon me, three others (but one not a direct connection, although the connection betwen them was mentioned already as having red coaches and also had red diesels). The SP Daylihgts don't count, because red was not in any way the primary color, ditto just red letterboards on stainless equipment. But Pacific Electric, sure.
I don't know if the Maine Central had any red cars of its own but those of the B&M often ran in MEC trains. I believe the Wabash had some red cars which ran in Chicago - Detroit trains.
Would the red cars of the New York City IND subway line count?
The New York Red Birds and R16's and others, you bet! Still more to come. Yes, Maine Central did have some of its own red passenger cars. And some of the others not yet mentioned were partically or wholly electric. including the Red Devils.
daveklepper And some of the others not yet mentioned were partically or wholly electric. including the Red Devils.
And some of the others not yet mentioned were partically or wholly electric. including the Red Devils.
I had completely forgotten about the C&LE. The North Shore (CNS&M) had a number of cars with red upper and silver lower carbodies. Many street railways like the Chicago Surface Lines had red streetcars. There were so many of these that I doubt we should begin to try to name them all.
KCSfan is thinking of North Shore's Silverliners, about one-third of North Shore's fleet was in these colors:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1366894
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1366893
How about Red Arrow's two connections, one later merged into its system, and one connection leading to a steam road connection with red cars to another electric line with red cars, part of its RofW used today with a red electric car.
After that someone or I will total up the score.
daveklepper How about Red Arrow's two connections, one later merged into its system, and one connection leading to a steam road connection with red cars to another electric line with red cars, part of its RofW used today with a red electric car. After that someone or I will total up the score.
I believe the Lehigh Valley Transit is one of those you are still looking for.
OK. Yes, and Philadlephia and Western before it was merged into Red Arrow. and riding the Lehigh Valley's red cars to Willksbarre one could ride the Laural Line, Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley to Scranton. Chicago Surface Lines would count also. And there are more. But now I should talley up who got the most first and get back to you.
LVT used red on all local Allentown cars and the Easton Limited lightweights, and a few remaining heavyweights on the Liberty Bell route. The Liberty Bell lightweights and most heavyweights were cream with red trim.
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