daveklepperName at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Name at least five or more names of really excellent passenger trains (can be all-coach streamliners, all first class, whatever, but always premium passenger trains at the times they were operated), whose names were then used for fast freight service after, sometimes long after, the passenger trains was discontinued. Can be a general service name and not just one round-trip train. But must be the same railroad or its successor.
Ill start with:
Pacemaker - NYC
Orange Blossom Special - SAL -> CSX
Super C(hief) - ATSF
I will accept those, but please come up with at least two more!!!
Overland Mail - UP
Zepjyr overland has three and Paul has one. Go to the southwest and you'll find some more, also to the south.
Shot in the dark. Eagle , Missouri Pacific?
Also while here The Piedmont , Southern Ry? Didn't that kind of morph from a passenger train to a mixed passenger/TOFC to only TOFC?
The only other name I can think of is Blackhawk which was used by Missouri Pacific for there truck service.
Rgds IGN
As a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2
IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
daveklepperAs a passenger train, the Balckhawk was a CB&Q ovenright Chi-Twin train and was simultaneous with the MP truck usage. Don't count. But correct on other two. Score 3 - 1 - 2 IN one case the two train names (passenger and frieght) as the usually applied shortcut name for the railroad begin with the same letter.
The Frisco Meteor?
That is one. Another on the same railroad please?
daveklepperThat is one. Another on the same railroad please?
The Frisco Firefly?
Right on! Looks like now you are the winner and should ask the next question.
daveklepperRight on! Looks like now you are the winner and should ask the next question.
Between 1918 and 1926 the B&O was able to operate its New York trains to Pennsylvania Station in Manhattan, instead of Jersey City. What was the routing the B&O trains used to get to Pennsylvania Station?
At that time the present Newark Pennsylvania Station did not exist, and there was a track connection between the then surface-level PRR Newark station and the Jersey Central Newark Station, the latter a station that lasted until well after WWII. I believe that was the route and not the route via the Lehigh Valley used by the Aldein Plan and still in use by NJT for the Raritan Valley trains and that would of course also be used by any restoration of passenger service to West Trenton over the Reading line. (Bound Brook being the juction of the Reading and CNJ.)
What I am not certain about, is whether these B&O trains used the old PRR or the CofNJ station in Newark. I think they would have had to use the former, because my memory says the CofNJ stration was actually a terminal, stub-end, while the old PRR station was a through station.
They exchanged steam for DD-1's at Manhattan Transfer just like the PRR and LV trains did.
This probably forced the PRR to run more trains to Exchange Place in Jersey City.
The CNJ station in Newark was a stub end station on a line from the east, Jersey City, and not connected to the CNJ main line which crossed under the PRR at Elizabeth. The "Aldene" connectin between the CNJ and the LV was not built until the 60's so that, coupled with the Hunter Tower connection, was not viable. The best bet for a PRR/B&O connection lies somewhere down in the City of Brotherly Love (unless you are a Pittsburg Penguin, New York Ranger, Montreal Canadien, or Chicago Blackhawks fan in which case its that place across the Delaware River from Camden).
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daveklepperAt that time the present Newark Pennsylvania Station did not exist, and there was a track connection between the then surface-level PRR Newark station and the Jersey Central Newark Station, the latter a station that lasted until well after WWII. I believe that was the route and not the route via the Lehigh Valley used by the Aldein Plan and still in use by NJT for the Raritan Valley trains and that would of course also be used by any restoration of passenger service to West Trenton over the Reading line. (Bound Brook being the juction of the Reading and CNJ.) What I am not certain about, is whether these B&O trains used the old PRR or the CofNJ station in Newark. I think they would have had to use the former, because my memory says the CofNJ stration was actually a terminal, stub-end, while the old PRR station was a through station. They exchanged steam for DD-1's at Manhattan Transfer just like the PRR and LV trains did. This probably forced the PRR to run more trains to Exchange Place in Jersey City.
No exactly. Basically, the CofNJ was shut out of the Royal Blue Line during this time period.
henry6The CNJ station in Newark was a stub end station on a line from the east, Jersey City, and not connected to the CNJ main line which crossed under the PRR at Elizabeth. The "Aldene" connectin between the CNJ and the LV was not built until the 60's so that, coupled with the Hunter Tower connection, was not viable. The best bet for a PRR/B&O connection lies somewhere down in the City of Brotherly Love (unless you are a Pittsburg Penguin, New York Ranger, Montreal Canadien, or Chicago Blackhawks fan in which case its that place across the Delaware River from Camden).
The route modification was done nearer the eastern end of the Royal Blue Line, instead of the Philadelphia area.
So that would mean getting on PRR rails in Delaware before the B&O got onto RDG rails? Or did they go on to Wayne Junction? East of there there there is no other chance execpt coming down from West Trenton to Trenton on the Bel Del which I don't believe was a feasible connection or route.
henry6So that would mean getting on PRR rails in Delaware before the B&O got onto RDG rails? Or did they go on to Wayne Junction? East of there there there is no other chance execpt coming down from West Trenton to Trenton on the Bel Del which I don't believe was a feasible connection or route.
Your guesses are getting colder. Look at my previous answer. The eastern end of the Royal Blue Line would be around New York.
Ok, I'm ending the Royal Blue Line at the end of B&O track thus elimnating RDG and CNJ. But to follow your "train of thought" then I would venture E'port to Waverly Yard to PRR either through NEwark or via Hudson Tower and Manhatten Transfer.
I finally remembered what may be the correct answer. Using the CofNJ all the way to Newark means going east through Elizabethport and then crossing Newark Bay a second time, a roundabout route. I suspect that during WWI the CNJ-PRR crossing at Elizabeth itself, a crossing that still exists but without passenger service on the old CNJ line, was not grade separated. I think that came with electrication of the PRR main. But in any case logically there was probably a good track connection at that point and it would have been easy for the B&O trains to leave the CofNJ main to use the PRR through Newark to Manhattan Transfer and the DD-1's to take them to Penn Station.
The connection probably bypassed the CNJ Elizabeth station, which was normally a stop for most if not all B&O Jersey City trains. But they would have used CNJ tracks from Bound Brook to Elizabeth to reach the PRR.
The reason most if not all B&O trains stopped at Elizabeth is that it was an excellent station for suburban Jersey residents to board trains to the south and west, saving lots of time over going into NYC.
henry6Ok, I'm ending the Royal Blue Line at the end of B&O track thus elimnating RDG and CNJ. But to follow your "train of thought" then I would venture E'port to Waverly Yard to PRR either through NEwark or via Hudson Tower and Manhatten Transfer.
Here's a hint: the RDG was still involved.
daveklepperI finally remembered what may be the correct answer. Using the CofNJ all the way to Newark means going east through Elizabethport and then crossing Newark Bay a second time, a roundabout route. I suspect that during WWI the CNJ-PRR crossing at Elizabeth itself, a crossing that still exists but without passenger service on the old CNJ line, was not grade separated. I think that came with electrication of the PRR main. But in any case logically there was probably a good track connection at that point and it would have been easy for the B&O trains to leave the CofNJ main to use the PRR through Newark to Manhattan Transfer and the DD-1's to take them to Penn Station. The connection probably bypassed the CNJ Elizabeth station, which was normally a stop for most if not all B&O Jersey City trains. But they would have used CNJ tracks from Bound Brook to Elizabeth to reach the PRR. The reason most if not all B&O trains stopped at Elizabeth is that it was an excellent station for suburban Jersey residents to board trains to the south and west, saving lots of time over going into NYC.
Here's a hint: the CofNJ was not involved with the reroute.
Ok...I think there was a connection somewhere near Metutchen on the PRR and east of Belle Meade on the RDG...not the RDG Port Reading Branch...which still exists as an industrial track off the Corridor today but does not go all the way to CSX.
The Reading main to Bound Brook did cross the PRR branch south and west from Trenton, I think to Philipsburg or Northumberland or someplace in northern PA. So if the CofNJ was out completely, that would still leave the Reading and have the B&O run up the PRR main from Trenton north. This PRR branch was served by a doodlebug passenger train as late as 1953. Never rode it but saw the doodlebug (probably by then diesel-electric and not gas-electric as originally built) in Trenton.
daveklepper The Reading main to Bound Brook did cross the PRR branch south and west from Trenton, I think to Philipsburg or Northumberland or someplace in northern PA. So if the CofNJ was out completely, that would still leave the Reading and have the B&O run up the PRR main from Trenton north. This PRR branch was served by a doodlebug passenger train as late as 1953. Never rode it but saw the doodlebug (probably by then diesel-electric and not gas-electric as originally built) in Trenton.
You're talking about the Bel-Del, Dave, that I mentioned earlier but I can't really see that line having been used because of the track layouts. The Belvedere and Delaware allowed the PRR to offer service to Tobyhanna, PA on the DL&W from Manunka Chunk, NJ junction just above Belvedere. The passenger service later was cut back to Stroudsburg and used a doodlebug; eventually the junction was severed in the early 50's and the service terminated at Phillipsburg, NJ with RDC's until the end in the late 50's. PRR/NYNH&H Federal Express from D.C. to Boston ran this route from Trenton to the L&HR just south of Belvedere thence to Maybrook and the Poughkeepsie Bridge to Danbury to New Haven to Boston for a while before the opening of Penn Sta. in NY (DL&W ran a through connection out of Hoboken to Andover Jct. for NY-Boston sleeper service on this train).
But, this route did not play a role in the Royal Blue scheme as far as I can ascertain.
Reading RR to Manville, NJ. Then, continuing with Reading engines and crews, on Lehigh Valley tracks to West Newark Junction and PRR tracks to Manhattan Transfer.
But the B&O had always used its own engines to Jersey City, so why would they change to Reading engines in Philadelphia just to run to Manhattan Transfer? Besides, is not that esentially the same as the Alden plan?
The Manville and LV connection sounds plausable...and is west of Bound Brook...engine change is confusing unless it was a weight or clearence problem. This is not the Aldene Plan as it is at least 20 miles west of Aldene, it is a RDG-LV connection and does not involve CNJ (Aldene is CNJ connection to LV at Aldene).
wanswheel Reading RR to Manville, NJ. Then, continuing with Reading engines and crews, on Lehigh Valley tracks to West Newark Junction and PRR tracks to Manhattan Transfer.
Bingo! This became effective April 28, 1918 on orders of the USRA on account of overcrowded PRR trains and sparsely patronized B&O trains. Initially, as part of the order, the B&O was allowed to operate only Washington-New York trains to Pennsylvania Station - no through cars for points beyond Washington. Soon afterwards, through cars started to show up on a limited basis to B&O points. By November, the Lehigh Valley was also allowed to operate through trains to Pennsylvania Station as well.
Wanswheel, go ahead and ask the next question.
On Dec. 28, 1917, two days after establishing the USRA, President Wilson appointed somebody to be in charge of it, the Director General of Railroads. What was his name and what railroad had he built?
Mike
His name was William Gibbs McAdoo and he was also Wilson's Secretary of the Treasury, and his son-in-law as well.
He built the Hudson & Manhattan Railroad and was originally from Marietta, GA
He was succeeded as Director General of the USRA by Walker S. Hines.
Bob Hanson, Loganville, GA
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